What’s the Snark on Lana Del Rey?

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27:40But let's talk about her career breakthrough. As we both agree on, Born to Die was kind of the era that we found her in. late 20 i mean early 2010s and 2011 was her song video games which i was obsessed obsessed with and yes and she made music video music videos for video games and blue jeans by herself that she uploaded to youtube so it was very boots on the ground and you can tell you can tell yes but i but they were great but yeah i have such vivid memories of when i first moved to new york city in early 2014. And that was like on repeat as I would like walk around New York. And I was like, oh my God, I'm like living in a movie.

28:23No, me too. I was living in San Diego at the time. And I remember seeing her in concert and being so like, she's like so cool. Just thinking, I want to be just like her. Yeah, exactly. She felt very ethereal to me on stage when she was performing. And the reason she was different was because she had very 50s, 70s Americana vibes. And I feel like the way that her music videos were shot were very much like that. The way that her wardrobe was really like that. Her makeup. And it really was unlike anyone else in that drama. Like in that genre. Because we had like Britney, Fergie, Miley. Who was like Lana Del Rey?

28:54No one was. Yeah. She was just so, as we always say, one of one. And I think that having a defined aesthetic is so underratedly important. You know what I mean? Like I feel like Sabrina Carpenter is a good example of one today. Yes. It separates her from the other pop girlies, you know? Yeah. I think that Lana Del Rey, you know her aesthetic, her style, her looks. Her songwriting. Songwriting. Yeah, exactly. The melodies. It's all so uniformly Lana. Yes. And I think when, I mean, speaking of other artists that have eras and aesthetics, kind of someone who doesn't anymore, well, who does now but always evolves is Ariana Grande.

29:30She was just performing last week in her first concert and people were filming it. And this is someone whose era has changed drastically. Like when you think about her in Seven Rings to now, I don't even know if that's the same person. She has the ponytail again. She had like the ponytail and like the platform boots. It seems like she's going back to her like sweetener era. Yes, like nostalgic. She's playing on nostalgic. Yeah, but it doesn't feel, it like hits different now, you know? Yeah, and we'll talk about it probably on DET, but it absolutely does hit differently. And I think that when I think of Ariana now, I'm like, yeah, I understand her aesthetic now and like the white hearts and the black, you know, but the Glinda and the fairy tales and everything like that.

30:12But it's vastly different. It's vastly different. I can't think about her Glinda era. I'm sorry. It's. I'm so glad that her hair is back to a normal color. No, me too. Me too. Yeah. The blonde. No, I can't even. I can't even talk. Yeah, I can't talk. And she had this 2023 album that we mentioned up top. Did you know that there's a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard? And this album earned her five Grammy nominations, including Album of the Year and her most critically successful. And Rolling Stone UK said that this is the greatest American songwriter of the 21st century. And I have to give a special shout out to this song called Kintsugi.

30:47And if you guys are familiar with that term, it's a Japanese term where you can put things back together through broken pieces. and it's like an actual art form where you take like a shatter like ceramic pot and then you build it back together and it ends up being more beautiful than prior to when it was broken. So it's like really making lemonade out of lemons type of feeling. Like you could, there's light at the end of the day. It's a very beautiful song about mortality, enduring death. And every time I like listen to it, I just think about like my grandparents. It's a very like deep, sweet song.

31:14She's a great songwriter. I think she really, it's almost poetic. Like I feel like when people think about Taylor Swift, they think of poetic, but I think Lana Del Rey even takes it a step further. Yeah. Her songs are poetry. Yeah. So let's talk about SNL on January 14th, 2012. And she performed on SNL before her debut album had even dropped. And the performance was totally savage. People were very offended by it. They were like, this girl is horrible. And again, they didn't really know who she was. This is before the song had even dropped. So they're like, what is this song you're playing? Like, what is she?

31:46I think she performed Video Games and Blue Jeans. Yeah. yeah blue jeans um Lana wait Lana Del Rey SNL performance 2012 songs let me just blue jeans for sure um video games and blue jeans yeah yeah so um people were not super familiar with her or the songs yet I think but I think video games had come out at this point but blue jeans had or maybe neither of them had honestly it's okay so yeah she was on SNL before her debut album even drop becoming the first artist since Natalie and Bruglia in 1998 to do so. So yeah, people were not familiar with the songs or her at all. Yeah. And that is kind of unnerving to do so.

32:26Yeah. You're performing a song that no one knows and it's always kind of awkward. And like even at a concert. Yeah. When I was at Hilary Duff before her album came out, she was like, I'm going to play this song, Weather for Tennis. And everyone was just awkwardly like. Because you don't know the words. No one can sing along. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it is a bit of an awkward dynamic, I think, for any artist. But to do it on a stage like SNL and no one really knows more. She took a big risk and I think it wasn't perceived well. Yeah. And it was like the way, I also remember this so vividly. Like it was the way that she was moving on stage and like the singing, the vocals weren't great.

32:54And we know that she's an incredible vocalist. This just was not her best work. I think it was probably nerves. She sounded shaky and nervous. And then also her movement, she was like very awkwardly moving on stage. It was just not great. She was kind of honestly junior a bit. Like she was a novice still, I think. She hadn't really earned her stripes yet. She was still very early in the industry. So I can imagine on a stage like SNL, that's like the scariest place you could be in. Absolutely. So actress and musician Juliette Lewis was very harsh. She said in the tweet that's now been deleted, wow, watching this quote unquote singer on SNL is like watching a 12-year-old in their bedroom when they're pretending to sing and perform.

33:33Hashtag sign of our times. That is so mean for no reason. It is. I know that was like 2012 people were a lot meaner, I feel like. but so i was watching it it really wasn't that bad yeah her voice sounded a little quick okay her vocals didn't sound amazing but the heart of the song was still there i don't know i i didn't think it was nearly as offensive as everyone was making it out to be um but i don't know you just feel badly for her because as she mentioned in 2003 in that gq article she's like anytime someone criticizes me it makes me want to drink and i feel like that's a very relatable feeling for people that i know who struggle with alcohol they're like every time i'm going through something the easiest thing to numb my pain is to just grab something to drink to make it go away so it just I can imagine how many times she's been like pushed to feeling of do I relapse or not because this is just too painful for me to endure like I just I feel for her a lot so in May 2020 and you have to remember the time of this right it's the height of the BLM movement uh after George Floyd was killed very very crazy time um for the world and Alana Del Rey she made this very odd post about clapping back at people who said that she glamorizes abuse.

34:40What did you think when she wrote this? This was just fucking bizarre because she called out all of these artists that are primarily women of color and called them out by name. And it's just like, what are you trying to say? It just read as like word salad. She sounded bitter and she sounded like jealous of these other artists. And I just didn't understand it. I still don't really understand it. I don't think that anyone really does. It was such a bizarre moment for her that I just can't defend. Bizarre is a great adjective. Can you just read maybe the first paragraph? First two paragraphs, sorry.

35:14Question for the culture. Now that Doja Cat, Ariana, Camilla, Cardi B, Kalani, and Nicki Minaj and Beyonce have had number ones with songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating, etc. Can I please go back to singing about being embodied, feeling beautiful by being in love, even if the relationship is not perfect, or dancing for money or whatever I want without being crucified or saying that I'm glamorizing abuse? I'm fed up with female writers and alt singers saying that I glamorize abuse when in reality I'm just a glamorous person. Singing about the realities of what we are all now seeing are very prevalent.

35:44You guys, this is written badly. I'm not reading it badly. Are very prevalent emotionally abusive relationships all over the world. Do you want me to keep going? No, I think it's just, I think you hit the most important points of this rant. It goes on for like a couple more paragraphs, guys. But I think, as Sophie mentioned, she's calling out celebrities that are, except Ariana Grande, women of color. I think at this time, Ariana was cosplaying as like almost black. Sometimes people call her blackiana. So maybe people could perceive her as ethnic and not just white and Italian. in any case people were like shut up lana del rey and you do gland rise abuse like shut up when you did blue jeans and the cover art the cover art is literally a man's hand around your throat and by the way guys we're gonna get into some like sexually heard talking about being sexually abused potentially like there's some trigger warning topics towards the latter half of this episode so if that is triggering to you i just suggest maybe turning this off because we're going to go over some scary topics but what do you make of this cover art of this man's tattooed hand over her throat.

36:46Wait, is it on? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I never thought that he was, I never thought that he was like choking her. I thought it was more like a great, like it looks like he's grazing her. So my mind never went there, but I can understand why people were like, this is, you know, not a, to bring up Sabrina Carpenter again, her cover. And that one was so much worse than this. I think compared to that, I'm like, I don't think this is that big of a deal. He looks say he's kind of grazing her, but I can understand why people interpret it a different way. Yeah. Wait, I didn't even think about the Sabrina Carpenter man-child.

37:20Yeah. Or man's best friend, sorry, man's best friend cover art. But you're right, that is way more sexually explicit and portraying BDSM than this one is. But I think in 2020, I think we were just very, very sensitive and heightened as a community, reasonably so. And I think if this were to have occurred, maybe her response about glamorizing abuse today, I don't think it would have nearly gotten as many headlines as it would have as it did in May 2020. But in any case, people were upset by this, especially about her speaking about question for the culture, which is often used to describe like black culture.

37:52It's a phrase associated with black artists. And people were so quick to be like, wait a minute, Camila Cabello, Cardi B, Doja Cat, Kehlani, amongst others, they're all women that are not white. Yeah. And cultural critic and writer, I don't want to mispronounce this. It's J-A-M-I-L-A-H, Jamalaya Lemieux tweeted, I don't know who was giving Lana Del Rey a hard time, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't black women. Girl, sing your little cocaine carols and leave us alone. Your little cocaine carols. Hilarious. And people were like, wait a minute, wait a minute. It's 2020. Why aren't you talking about Taylor Swift, Billie Eilish, Adele, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry?

38:28Why the hell are you only talking about Doja Cat and Nicki Minaj? Like, that seems very double standard. Yeah. And people were saying it's giving problematic white women and you're kind of being tone deaf and weaponizing white fragility. Yeah. And Lana kind of responded to it and she said, listen, it's been a long 10 years of bullshit reviews up until recently, but I also feel it really paved the way for other women to stop putting on a happy face and to just be able to say whatever the hell they wanted to in their music. And they said critics and journalists argue that her claims of being uniquely maligned overlooked the pop music industry's long history of harsh scrutiny towards female artists.

39:02And she denied that her post was about race at all. And she's like, listen, I only name the people whose music I genuinely love. Like, all these women that I named in my Instagram post are my favorite artists. And she famously remarked that she could have literally said anyone and pushed back strongly against being called racist. And in later comments, she defended her stance as an advocate for female fragility. And she argued that society was making her words into a race war unnecessarily. And she says, don't ever, ever, ever, ever call me racist. The singers I mentioned are my favorite singers.

39:33So if you want to try and make a bone to pick out of it, like you always do, be my guest. It doesn't change the fact that I haven't had the same opportunity to express what I wanted to express without being completely decimated. If you want to say that has something to do with race, that's your opinion, but that's not what I was saying. But it's like you are only calling out women of color. That's the thing. And you're saying that there's a double standard with these specific women being able to do something that you're not able to do as a white woman. Like, I don't know. You can't have it both ways.

39:58Yeah, yeah. You really can't. And the cultural appropriation and just not racist comments outwardly, but just a little bit tone deaf didn't stop, right? As you mentioned at the top, the 2012 ride video was her in a full Native American headdress, like the size of her own body. And then in 2013, there was a Tropico short film, and she was criticized for appropriating Latino gangster culture. And I watched it. She has a teardrop tattoo. Oh, God. Like, it's just, what are you doing? There was also a graphic that she posted for her song Chemtrails Over the Country Club. And when it was released, people perceived it as being a little bit problematic for the lack of diversity.

40:34It's all white women. Yes. Apparently, like, it looks like they're at like a 1950s gathering. No, it genuinely does. It looks, it's kind of giving like antebellum, which is interesting. Or like civil rights era. Yes. And people were like, yo, there's not a single non-white person here. I think maybe I see one person that could be like half white, half something else. and she's like she responds and kind of even makes it worse she goes my beautiful friend valerie from del rio mexico my dearest friend alex and my gorgeous friend dakota rain as well as my sweetheart tatiana these are my friends this is my life we are all a beautiful mix of everything some more than other others which is visible and celebrated in everything i do in 11 years working i've always been extremely inclusive without even trying to my best friends are rappers my boyfriends have been my dearest friends have been all over the place so before you make comments again about a WOC POC issue.

41:27I'm not the one storming the Capitol. I'm literally changing the world by putting my life and thoughts and love out there on the table 24-7. Respect it. Oh, wait. Changing the world? You're talking about, yeah. Please. I mean, come on. Oh, my God. I'm just saying that my best friends are rappers. And also my boyfriend. Tokenization. That's tokenization. Yeah. Exactly. And when you say my boyfriends have been rappers, you're basically insinuing that all rappers equal Black men, which, okay, yes, objectively, that could be true. But there's also other rappers that are not black men. Mac Miller, Eminem are the first two that come to mind.

41:58It's just kind of giving. It sounds like she's using the word rapper as synonymous with black. Right. Which is problematic. Exactly. And people were kind of criticizing her, basically saying this whole statement basically reads as I don't see color. And I think maybe before 2020, we kind of all thought that was an okay phrase to say. But I think beneath the term I don't see color, it's basically insinuating that you cannot realize other people's experiences based on the color of their skin. Like when you say I don't see color, what you're trying to say, maybe what you're intending to say is that you're not racist and you don't care about the color of people's skin, but that's basically watering down what they are to have their experience living in this world.

42:37So I think it's kind of a double-edged sword, but people were not happy with this naturally. And the scandal doesn't end in 2020. So in October 2020, she went to a book signing during COVID and what looked like a mesh face mask with a bunch of holes. Remember how insane the whole, like, the mask thing was? I mean, I understand why it was, but people were crucified, obviously, for wearing masks that were, like, not... Yeah. I mean, this was 2020. It was still, like, at the height of COVID. Height of COVID, yes. And she was wearing this fuck-ass mask with a bunch of holes. Yeah. It was mesh. That doesn't do anything.

43:10Just don't even wear one. Yeah. It does remind me of Meredith Marks. Right. It's just so, she's so unaware. And like, she kind of just lives in her own little fairy tale world that I don't think she understands how she comes across. And then when people bring it up to her, she's like, what are you talking about? I guess she clapped back to people that were criticizing her for this mesh hold mask and said, no, no, no. You guys actually didn't see it, but I had clear plastic behind the holes. So like, joke's on you guys. I actually, it wasn't really like a hold up mask. There's no plastic to be sweet, sweetheart.

43:38There's no, there's no plastic. Also, face masks aren't plastic because then you wouldn't be able to like breathe. Breathe. it becomes like a wet mess. Like, what are you talking about? Oh, my God. It didn't stop there because she can never really make any right decision in the early onsets of 2020. So she started dating a cop, giving all these people even more ammunition to criticize her. She started dating a man named Sean, a.k.a. Sticks Larkin, a Tulsa police officer. And he's just a star in his police department, his local police department. But it wasn't even him being a cop that got people riled up.

44:12It was actually kind of sad for Lana because apparently when they first started to date in September 2019, they were later confirmed to be dating in October 2019. By March 2020, they were like all over each other. But come to find out, he was actually two-timing Lana Del Rey with another woman the entire time. Oh, God. And in January 2022, he actually ends up marrying this other woman he was two-timing Lana Del Rey with. Her name is Carrie Cadu. And so that kind of sucks for Lana. She's basically the other woman or dating two women at once and he marries the other woman. And she said, oh, sorry.

44:43Oh, no, I was just going to say that the breakup felt like the end of the world. She was very upset about this. Where does she fucking find these men? Like, it's one thing to like, you know, date a normie. I feel like a lot of celebrities are like, yes, like, I love a normie because they, you know, are not part of this world, this crazy Hollywood world. But it's like she finds these random ass men that are just so random. Like, where did you find him? A Tulsa police officer. It says that he's on the show Live PD, which is some sort of like cop show. Like, was she watching the show and she was like, need him?

45:17Need that. Who's that? Need that. Yeah. No, that's a very good question. Because her now husband, we now know how they met, was she was literally on one of his Gator tours in Louisiana. Yeah, she was literally in the bayou with him on one of his Gator tours. Like, what? How do you even get his number? Like, hey, I can't even imagine like me telling my friend, hey, get that guy's number from the Gator tour. I mean, like, not to be classist or anything. It's just you're Lana Del Rey. Like, I'm sure you've been hanging out with celebrities. It's just, it's crazy how she's meeting these random guys.

45:46And, like, nothing against, you know, gator tour guides. Dude, he probably makes bank, just so we're clear. Like, I bet you that's a really lucrative business. He probably makes more than any of us. But the concept of being on a gator tour in, like, a smelly bayou, and you're like, wow, this guy's hot. I mean, I guess crazier things have happened. No, that's a very good point. But it's just so it's just so unexpected. And like how now she flies him all over the world like Paris Fashion Week. It's like he's straight from the bayou. Yeah. He's just like a good old Southern man. It's almost like I'm sure he thinks his lucky stars every day.

46:24You know, it's kind of like Make-A-Wish. It's like, wow, my life changed overnight just because Lana Del Rey decided to take a gator tour. Right. In Louisiana. She really does do well with normal people. interestingly enough i came across a tmz video tmz video from 2012 adam glenn back in x knows all i actually interviewed his co-host dax he's based out of orange county as well but he has been a tmz pap for a long time in their podcast hollywood raw they talk about just their life as paparazzi and there is a tmz video of him in new york city approaching lana and asking her out on a date and And she is like smitten.

47:00She was. Oh, my God. So like, again. She was just attracted to anything. Yeah. Anyone, any man. And like, and again, I'm not saying that there's anything at all wrong with being a gator tour guide. Again, probably making more money than any of us. Dude, yeah, he's a small business owner who probably makes banks. Small business owner. But he has a business that he's passionate about. But if you just look at photos of him, he's just not someone that you would be like, wow. I need to get that guy's number. If you were a Hollywood starlet, like Lana's number. Right. You're going to the Grammys. Like you can you can date a lot of dudes, but it's almost humbling that she does that.

47:39I don't know. It makes her more relatable. But again, it kind of she's odd. So this doesn't really surprise. Like I kind of love them. No, me too. He seems I was watching a video of him watching her perform like last year. The way his eyes were twinkling. Oh, my God. Stop. I'm going to cry. Wait, do you like, when you watch that video of him, did you like see the vision? You're like, okay, I kind of see what she sees in him. Yes, because he was just so, he adores her. And it was very clear just through this video. And I don't know, I get it. And I think maybe what Lana needs, because as we were saying at the beginning, she seems kind of like an insecure woman.

48:14And I think she needs someone that isn't more famous than her. Like, I don't think she would do well with, I'm just throwing this name out there, because it's the first actor I thought of, of Brad Pitt, who's like super hunky, can get any woman he wants despite him being an abuser. Like, he is alpha. I don't think she wants that. I think she wants someone who is a little bit made of her to run the show. And like physically, like maybe people look at them and they're like, she is out of his league. And I mean, I basically just said that in so few words. Like she is out of his league physically, but like she might like that dynamic.

48:41Yeah, I think it really works for her. But going back to the cop, people take it way too far. They were like, she supports police brutality because she's dating a cop. I'm like, okay, let's not make that extreme of this, them, that. That's just a very dangerous causation statement. But I think it was a little bit nuts that people were saying that. But people just were, I think, reasonably upset because of what she was saying about question for the culture and her life fragility. I mean, it was also that time because she dated him 2019 to 2020, then again in 2022. So to put things in perspective, it was like the George Floyd's murder.

49:19and there was understandably a huge anti-cop sentiment that became widely universal in the United States and still remains to this day. So I understand why people are like, why the fuck are you dating a cop? Like, it's a racist institution. I'm just going to assume that he's racist, which I understand that. I do. Does that mean that every single cop is evil? I personally don't think so. But I understand why people are very, very, very anti-cop. And I can see why a lot of her fans were like, ew, like just icked out by it. Yeah, agreed. And I think it's just that coupled with all the other mishaps that were happening just months prior, people were just like, enough, Lana.

49:58We're sick of it. Like, we don't support them. Yeah, it was like a lot of missteps, like all at once for her in like 2020. Exactly. So I want to talk about something else, a relationship that she has had that was very controversial. So she has a song called Cola, and it's one of her, most of her fans would say it's one of her best songs ever. And there is a lyric about Harvey Weinstein in there. And this is what the lyrics say. My pussy tastes like Pepsi Cola. My eyes are wide like cherry pies. I got a sweet taste for men who are older. It's always been so. It's no surprise. Harvey's in the sky with diamonds and he's making me crazy.

50:31I come alive. All he wants to do is party with his pretty baby. Come on, baby, let's ride. We can escape to the great sunshine. I know your wife and she wouldn't mind. And people were like, oh, that's interesting. And when she talks about this now, she even admits, she's like, listen, when I wrote the song, I suppose I was talking about a Harvey Weinstein, Harry Winston type character. I did have those two figures in mind. And that was, this song was released in 2012. So this was pre the Me Too movement where everything came out about Harvey Weinstein. Exactly. So when she was talking about when she wrote this song, she said, I envision like a benevolent diamond bestowing upon Starlet's visual, like a Citizen Kane or something.

51:11I'm not really sure. I thought it was funny at the time, and I obviously find it very sad now. I support the women who have come forward. I think they're very brave for doing it. And when asked about her relationship with Harvey, she goes, you could tell she's very trepidatious. She speaks very lightly about the topic. So I listened to an interview of her talking about it, and she was very coy. She goes, I worked with him over a number of years on some film, and the interviewer was trying to press. She goes, well, what was it like working with Harvey? And she goes, she kind of trails off, but she goes, well, he was flirtatious, I would say.

51:40And you could tell she wanted to say more, but she just wouldn't say anything more. So the interviewer was like, okay. And she says, you know, all these stories we've been hearing really did need to be heard. But she does admit she was talking about Harley fucking Weinstein, which is so seedy. It's so weird. Just because even like before the accusations against him came out, first of all, it was kind of like an open secret in Hollywood that he was doing this for years and years and years. So there's that. Also, he's a fucking goblin. He is the... Disgusting. He is objectively the ugliest person to ever exist.

52:13No, genuinely. I'm sorry. It's not even subjective. He is so fucking disgusting. Why are you writing a song about Harvey? I don't know what Harry Winston looks like. I know I'm familiar with his jewelry, but what does Harry Winston look like? I just Googled Harry Winston man. I just want to see pictures of the man. I'm thinking of your brother-in-law who said that what's-his-name was atrocious looking. Oh, Millard Fillmore, the president. Millard Fillmore. we were talking about like the yeah he said he's grotesque we're talking about the ugliest president um harry winston ugly i'm sorry like what i thought you were gonna say okay i get it no ugly well like not as ugly as harvey winsey but like why i just don't understand like why she's writing songs about these i guess her explanation is like you know i was envisioning a benevolent diamond bestowing upon Starlet's visual, like blah, blah, blah.

53:07And it's like, what? I just like, I still like, it's, that doesn't track for me. Is the benevolent diamond bestowing upon Starlet man in the room with us? Because it certainly is not someone I would have picked or Harvey to look like. Right. So I think that, you know, just once again, like Lana Del Rey, there's no making sense of her mind. Yeah. She's just, she's unique. Like she genuinely is very unique. Unique. Sometimes complimentary, sometimes derogatory. you know like and oh go ahead i was just gonna say in this moment i feel i'm saying unique in a derogatory way because that is just not like i just i don't see the vision there i mean any alignment with harvey weinstein is dark period and and james franco post the accusations that have come out about him yes so let's get into that lana just continues to associate herself with men that are problematic period james franco being one of the most notorious relationships that he has had they never publicly to my knowledge ever came out as boyfriend girlfriend that they They were exclusive together, but they were photographed a ton.

54:05They were always hanging out. He would always post about her on his Instagram. And I was listening to this song called A &W about her feeling very used and discarded and invisible to men. And I'm going to read a couple of the lyrics. And again, trigger warning up top. There is some stuff that could be suggesting like sexual assault. So just want to say that up top. But the song begins with, I haven't done a cartwheel since I was nine. It just starts that song like that. And people were speculating, is this Lana perhaps admitting that she was maybe violated at a very young age? Like, what is that lyric insinuating?

54:36And I don't know. She's never confirmed this, but this is just conversations on the internet dissecting the lyrics. But she goes on to say, call him up, come into my bedroom. Ended up, we fuck on the hotel floor. It's not about having someone to love me anymore. This is the experience of being an American whore. If I told you that I was raped, do you really think that anybody would think I didn't ask for it? I didn't ask for it. I won't testify. I already fucked up my story. On top of this, so many other things you can't believe. Did you know a singer can still be looking like a side piece at 33?

55:02God's a charlatan. Don't look back, babe. Puts the shower on while he calls me. Slips out the back door to talk to me. I'm invisible. Look how you hold me. I'm invisible. I'm invisible. I'm a ghost now. Look how you hold me now. She goes on in this song to say, Jimmy, Jimmy, Cocoa Puff. Jimmy, Jimmy, Ride. Your mom called me. I told her you're fucking up big time. Jimmy only called me when he wanted to get high. Then I'm thinking, I'm like, could she be talking about James Franco? like honestly like maybe like i haven't seen this conversation on the internet this is just me putting my tinfoil hat on but i'm and maybe lana del rey stands like you may know this about this song better than me but the jimmy jimmy coco puff jimmy jimmy ride love me if you love me enough you can be my light jimmy only cult love me when you want to get high your mom called i told her you're fucking up big time and like there are so many photos of them together and he was genuinely obsessed with her he would always post about her he said that he adored her art he adored her as a musician.

55:53There's a photo of them looking like they're intimate in bed in one photo that he posted to his Instagram. But there's another song on her album, Norman fucking Rockwell. The song is titled Norman fucking Rockwell released in 2019. And I'm almost positive this one's about James Franco. So it reads, goddamn man child, you fucked me so good that I almost said I love you. You're fun and you're wild, but you don't know half of the shit that you put me through. Your poetry is bad and you blame the news, but I can't change that and I can't change your mood. This must be a nod to James Franco's book of poetry that he released in 2014, as well as his book of short stories, Palo Alto, in 2010.

56:25I remember that. Remember when he was, like, a professor and he would write books and short stories and a compilation of, like, poems? And everyone was like, oh, my God, he's a true Renaissance man. Like, he's an actor, he's a professor, and then it turns out that he was sexually assaulting his students. All of his students, yes, at UCLA. And we're actually doing a James Franco episode in a couple weeks, guys, so we'll definitely, like, get into all of these allegations about James Franco in a separate episode. but your poetry's bad and you blame the news. A hundred percent that's about James Franco.

56:52Yeah. Like who else could she be talking about? And James Franco would be someone who's like, my poetry's great. Like they just don't understand me, you know? They're not deep enough. But it is funny though, when I like listen to other people's, when I listen to Lana Del Rey lyrics or even like Taylor Swift lyric, I'm like, is this about anything or anyone in particular? Or are these just words that sound good? And maybe I'm not deep enough to like fully like interpret things. I'm like, yeah, maybe it just like sounded good. I think Taylor Swift, there's definitely moments where I'm like, this isn't about anything.

57:23I'm sorry. Yeah, and she admits that. She's like, but then people think she's lying. They're like, oh, folklore and evermore were about fictitious characters. And then come to find out like a lot of these songs are about Maddie Healy. Well, I can remember that interview she did where she was like something. It's the lyric that's like from Father Finger about the mahogany green. Yeah. And she's like, like something about mahogany green. And she's like, I just love those types of lyrics. So you're talking about a table. You're talking about a fucking table. You're just using words because you think they sound good, even though they don't actually, like, mean anything that deep, you know?

57:56No, and that's actually such a good point, Sophie, because you know what she has said? She has said herself in interviews that she has a list of words that she just likes, like incandescent, for instance, incandescent glow. So she'll try and she'll look at those words and say, I want to use this on my next song, and she'll find a way to weave those specific words into her lyrics. So you're actually not far off. Like, I'd imagine Mahogany Green was probably on that list. Honestly, listening to The Life of a Showgirl the entire album, I was like, this is just, you know. She was like, yeah, I like this word.

58:23No. I'm dying at, you're talking about a table. You're talking about a table. No, she's like, the fate of Ophelia. Like, what are you even fucking talking about? I'm sorry. The Life of a Showgirl was the most junior album of hers. Like, it actually was worse than debut when she was 15 and wrote that, okay? No, no, literally. Like, I'm so sorry, Swifties. and I say this as someone I don't I don't officially call myself a Swiftie I know Christy aligns herself as more of a Swiftie than I do but it kind of that album like kind of gave me the ick like I haven't been able to listen to and I love there are so many albums of hers that I fucking love like obviously Evermore Folklore also Red also Lover like there are so many albums of hers that I used to have on repeat 1989 used to have on repeat and I'm like I kind of got the and I have not been able to listen to her since Life of a Showgirl came out.

59:13I was like so icked out by that album. When the album came out, Sophie texted our group chat and it was literally like Olivia and Sophie, the Rachel Christie. Because me and Rachel are like diehard. And Sophie was like, I'm not fucking joking. Like it actually makes me look at her differently. You know what I mean? It really did. I was like, I haven't been able to look at her the same since. No, like you were being so for real. This is weird. And so many people are like, oh, it really grew on me. Like I didn't like it at first, but now I really love it. Like you just have to like give it more time and i'm like enough i'm sorry absolutely not like these songs are still not good you will never convince me that father figure is good or the fate of ophelia is good or opalite like i'm sorry opalite what are you talking about yeah honestly i'm trying to think the best song on there is honey but it's not even deep it's just i like the beat you can call me honey if you want because i'm the one you want like that one's fun i like to kind of like like Like, I like to clean and I like to, you know, shake my hips.

1:00:07What about, um, good thing I like my friends can't. Like, I'm sorry. Fuck off with that song. No, it's like so clear. It's about Blake Lively and it's so cringe. Like, dude, Blake, no one likes her anymore. Stop standing up for her implicitly. Oh my God. See, like, I don't even know. Like, sure. It's about Blake Lively. I don't know. I really think that she's just like putting like random words, like mixing them up and then just like, sure. you know literally she has that like the dartboard of like her her words yeah that list and she's like all right travis like he's like steady and still like she's like by the way oh my god wait did you ever watch um family guy or south park no oh my god okay family guy i i was always more into family guy i haven't watched a really long time but family guy they would always do like random it's like peter peter's like this is worse than that time that lois got uh you know i don't even fucking know.

1:00:59I'm trying to think of the most random thing that Lois got asked to play forward on the Liverpool soccer team. It's like the most random scenario. And South Park was making fun of Family Guy and they showed like the Family Guy. This is so stupid. I don't know why I'm even talking about this. They showed the Family Guy like studio and it was just a bunch of manatees in a tank picking picking random it was like Mexican restaurant dog beagle like the most random words amalgamation of words that's basically a keyboard that's what I feel like sometimes Taylor Swift is doing no life of a showgirl was that we're gonna get so many comments on Spotify you guys I've loved Taylor Swift okay I have loved Taylor Swift since I was 15 years old okay I I respect it we're allowed to have our opinions on an album I don't think was her best okay and we can admit that and you know what i love tortured poets department that is her best album across every single album i will die on this hill okay and sophie goes that too was embarrassing i didn't like that album even that that album like didn't give me the ick like life of a show world then but yeah and that's chrissy loves that album i listen to it every day and sophie's like why that one's all good i'm sorry and that's that's my opinion no it's so good she's crashing out and she's so crazy in it that you're like oh my god i appreciate crazy taylor like she didn't give a fuck she was on top of the world and she's like you know what she told jack i mean yeah is that who helped her do it jack no someone else i think after jack and after tortured poet start was when she kind of like dropped jack and off for a sec and then she did she did life of a show girl with those like swedish pop guys yeah and um by the way after reading lena dunham's fame sick fuck jack antonoff i love leaning on him everyone knows that like love her i love her so much but jack antonoff the worst he's the worst oh yeah he's not a good guy not a audrey said that when she saw um jack antonoff she's like he was kind of rude like he was actually not very nice he i think has in uh inflated sense of what he actually looks like like i think he thinks he's really hot yeah and she said that she like audrey's like she loves music like she she does guitar she understands the production she goes love you fellas and he looks at her like what the fuck are you talking about like weirdo yeah she said margaret was very nice so i can see that margaret is like really beautiful and like seems really sweet and then there's jack she's like cool i don't know margaret yeah it's like why girl how did how did jack land margaret is my question no that's a very good question i feel like margaret could get anyone well actually speaking of Margaret.

1:03:33Let's talk about Lana Del Rey's wedding because she was actually there. It's finally summer, which means all of us, hopefully most of us, are going to be spending a lot more time outside touching grass. And when was the last time you upgraded your outdoor furniture situation? Wayfair is your one-stop shop for outdoor seating, grills, appliances, patio lighting, storage, rugs, decor, you name it. Everything you need to make your outdoor area the best seat in the house. We only have an itty-bitty balcony in New York City, but thanks to Wayfair, we made the most of our tiny space with a perfect little bistro set and twinkle lights.

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1:08:44And this is what she said as stagecoach. This is the last time I'm ever going to say this line. I kissed Morgan Wallen. I guess kissing me kind of went to his head. If you want my secret to success, I suggest don't go ATVing with him when you're out West. And people were like, okay, either you're cooking him and you're trying to embarrass him or you're telling fans that you kissed him and you're trying to show that off. Either way, it's weird. And for a man that is so scorned, like Morgan Wallen, who has made very problems, who has had very problematic behavior. Remember when he threw a chair off like a hotel high rise and could have killed someone?

1:09:14Yeah, but the racism that people always are referencing when they talk about him is him being spotted on his neighbor's ring camera saying the N-word with a hard R multiple times. Yeah, it was insane how comfortable he was using that term. And it surfaced in like 2020 or 2021. And people were reasonably incredibly upset by it and disgusted. They're like, he's a trash. He's trash. He's unprofessional. He can't show up to concerts. He's always too drunk. He's such a womanizer. Oh, did you see the clip from just last week where he was, he got frustrated because I guess production messed something up on his concert.

1:09:47So he flipped his piano like Teresa Giudice. He is seriously so angry. He has a temper. No, he does. Also like the SNL thing where he reported SNL. Then he immediately left and he posted from like his plane. He was like, get me to God's country. He like rage baits almost. Or that could just be him. But he's weird. This is like Lana's soft launching, like, conservative programming to her music. I don't know. But this was just very weird in 2025 to show off that you went on a date with Morgan Wallen ATVing because, of course, you did. It's just really weird. But let's talk about the aesthetics of her wedding and her marriage to Jeremy Dufresne, who is the Gator boat tour guy.

1:10:26So they married in September 26, 2024, in Louisiana in the Bayou, where he works as a captain at Air Boats Tours by Arthur. Exactly one month before my wedding, not to make things about me. Oh, wow. And Lana was 39 when she wed Jeremy, who was 49. So the officiant, small world, was Judah Smith, who you may know as Justin Bieber's pastor, just so everyone's aware and knows about that. And how they first met, she took one of his wildlife boat tours at Arthur's Airboat Tours in Louisiana. And she did post social media. and there's like a bunch of photos from this day of her friends taking photos of her getting up on like the captain's little seat and he's like pointing around and she's just like super giddy like it really seemed to be love or lust at first sight just based on my view of these photos yeah and in may 2024 she shared an instagram post featuring her and her sibling and then referring to jeremy at mentioning him on instagram and calling him my guy and there was a tweet that had gone viral of jeremy's daughter texting him saying like wait a minute what a minute Yeah, you're dating Lana Del Rey, dad.

1:11:30Why didn't you tell me? He's like, sorry, I meant to tell you. And in August of 2024, they went public officially and they were spotted holding hands at a music festival in the UK. In September 2024 in Louisiana, they obtained their marriage license. They got married. And in October, they made their first official red carpet debut at the Valentino show in Paris together. And at their wedding, people will always troll it because they say it's like kind of feels a little bit like Southern, conservative, antebellum vibes even. And first thing is she gave up perfume bottles as gifts that read Love on the Bayou 92624.

1:12:05And her nails, they're just not even done. Like she has long nails, sharp almond shaped nails. And they're just like, do you see this, Sophie? It's actually kind of gross. It's weird. It looks like claws. It's just like her unmanicured nails. nails. No, it looks like she has like bedazzled things. She has like a bow on one. She has like little pearls. It looks like they're done. It's just like a weird manicure. Yeah, it looks kind of like what I would expect like Snow White and like the grandma with like the mirror. Like that's what her hands would look like, honestly. It's just, whatever. It's just like funny.

1:12:38It's not that serious. And they were taking photos on the gator book they had men on. Their wedding cake had a photo of a bayou shack on it and people were like, oh my God, look, it's the house from the Pirates of the Caribbean. Like, you know when you're at Disneyland and you're on the little raft and like there's people on the bayou smoking from a pipe that's literally what this photo on their wedding cake looks like oh my god also this viral photo of margaret quayley at the wedding and you can tell she's looking around being like who are these people yeah yeah jack looks happy i mean i feel like this is right up his alley yeah um and finally to close out lana has a bit of a feud with a woman named ethel kane and in august 2025 lana posted a snippet of a song that she hadn't released yet and she said on the instagram caption track 13 and she called out ethel kane by name with an opening line in the song about kane hating her instagram post and reenacting her chicago pose that she took with her former ex-boyfriend and i think the heart of this feud with ethel and lana is surrounding this man that lana used to date by the name of jack donahue who lana dated and now it appears ethel kane dated and now they're beefing publicly.

1:13:42So this is what the song reads. It says, Ethel Kane hated my Instagram posts. Thinks it's cute reenacting my Chicago post. And basically, it's like a picture of her in front of like this. Looks like a prison. Lana Del Rey. Let me find it. Ethel Kane. And Ethel Kane basically took a similar photo in the same area with Jack Donahue. And Lana Del Ray was not happy about it. And when asked about it, people were like, Lana, what's your beef with ethel kane like what did she ever do to you she said i didn't know who ethel was until a few years ago when someone brought to my attention the disturbing and graphic side-by-side images she would often put up of me next to unflattering creatures and cartoon characters making constant comments about my weight then when i heard what she was saying behind closed doors from mutual friends and started inserting herself into my personal life i was definitely disturbed and ethel previously has acknowledged how influenced she has been by lana's work and she's even said like yeah and you can tell yeah you can tell she's like lana was the first record that i ever purchased but after lana del rey posted this spicy instagram story titled track 13 ethel kane posted to her instagram story and said lana del rey has blocked ethel kane on instagram and it's just like weird beef that i feel like lana doesn't even need to get herself into like you are a nominated artist yeah even be bothered by a woman who people don't even know her like it's Well, people do.

1:15:00People do know Ethel Kane is like a very popular artist today. But Lana Del Rey. I didn't know who that is. Yeah. Ethel Kane is a very popular artist, but it feels like Lana Del Rey here. It's like, yeah, you don't need to get involved with this. You're above this. Ethel Kane is way younger than her. Yeah. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I'm just saying that you are kind of, yeah, she's, Ethel Kane is 28. She's a trans woman. She is a newer artist. Lana Del Rey is much more established. She is more than a decade older than her. It feels like she's almost like punching down. Like, you don't need to do this.

1:15:34But again, it's to be expected kind of from Lana Del Rey. She's like a little bit, I don't want to say manic sometimes, but she's just kind of like, like we said, she's unique. She's unique. There is no real, like, understanding who she is and how her mind works. She is an enigma wrapped in a riddle. In cash. In cash. speaking of housewives taglines um well and that's kind of it on lana del rey like i think the most fascinating parts of her lore is the harvey thing like we know just enough but not enough do you know what i mean like she posts she talked very explicitly about him but what is the extent of their relationship besides her starring in a couple films or short films with him and did he help boost her career and promise certain things and even the lyric about her saying that even if I did say I was raped when people say I was making it up.

1:16:23Like, it all just seems very dark. And she gives us just enough to, like, speculate on. But we never know. Like, we can't ever close the loop, which is why it's just fascinating. Lauren, really sad that all these things have happened to her, but it doesn't seem like she's willing or it's too scary to bring up, which I don't blame her. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, like, you know, I think that Lana Del Reyes had plenty of head-scratching, face-palm, foot-and-mouth moments, whatever you want to call it. She's had a lot of questionable moments. But I think she's also just like a human being. This sounds so corny.

1:16:56I'm like, she's a human being doing her best, figuring it out. Like, I don't ever think that she has bad intentions ever. I think that she is a very, like we said, unique person. Like, she just marches to the beat of her own drum. She's quirky. She also has been through, you know, some trauma. And I think that, you know, that doesn't like excuse anything. But I think that it explains why she is the way she is a little bit. And overall, I still consider myself a Lana Del Rey fan. Me too. I think that, again, like, she has made some missteps, but who hasn't, you know? Yeah. And I think I kind of enjoy the fact that she isn't so veneered.

1:17:34Yes. Yes. She's messy on Instagram. Yeah. She's not, like, buttoned up, and she's not, like, as mysterious as other— She's, like, posting her tacky party favors from her wedding, you know? Like, there's something very just relatable about her. Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say, too. It's almost relatable because she is so messy. And with Taylor Swift, for example, I'm bringing her up just because we've been bringing her up this entire episode. They do have a friendship. We know Taylor Swift, the machine, the artist. But as she's gotten more and more fam, we've been closed off to so much of her life, which I don't blame her for.

1:18:07I think it's also a safe thing, too. But I like that as big as Lana Del Rey has gotten. and I do think she is mainstream, but at the same time, she still can be very niche simultaneously. She's at this weird part of her career where like she has a relevancy and A-list name recognition, but I wouldn't say you can play a song and everyone will be like, oh, this is my favorite song. This is the song name. I'm so glad you said that because that reminds me. The best way to kill a vibe at karaoke with people that you're not really friends with is doing video games. Completely killed the vibe. It was Henry's, one of Henry's good friends like going away parties because he was leaving the city and we did karaoke and I only knew his friend and then it was like a bunch of his friends' friends that I didn't know.

1:18:50So it was a bunch of strangers and I was like, you know what? I'm going to do video games. Killed the vibe. I mean, that's the way Nicole at night though. Everyone's like, we're tired now. I know. Let's go to bed. No, and it's not that people didn't know the song. It's just not a fun karaoke song, you know? Yeah, I would say none of her shit. It's maybe besides summertime sadness, like EDM electronic version mixed with like a Vici or whatever the hell. You know, she's just... Or, now my life is sweet like cinnamon. Yes. Like a fucking dream. I'm living it. Like that could be a fun one, but overall it's more, you know, melancholy.

1:19:25Yeah. Which we like. We like that. Yeah, she just is a little bit peculiar and eccentric and kind of messy. And we like that about her and I think she toes the line between being uber famous but also she lives this very normal life. Like, she goes back and forth between L.A. to do her job, but also she lives in, like, the bayous in Louisiana. That's a huge change for someone that grew up in the East Coast and, like, the tri-state area to go to Louisiana. I mean, that's a completely different world. So we love that for her. I'm glad that she's living her best life. And, yeah, that is kind of all she wrote.

1:19:58But thank you guys so much for listening. Next Tuesday, we'll see you for another fresh episode of D.E.T. We apologize that—wait, is this the episode—is this the week that we are—oh, yeah. We apologize that we didn't have a fresh episode of DET on Tuesday, but rest assured, next week, we're back to our regularly scheduled programming. If you guys want to hear more of us, we're at patreon.com slash at snarkbaitpod, our YouTube, our sub stack. All that is in the link in our show notes as well as our Instagrams. And we will see you on Tuesday for another episode. Have a good rest of your weekend.

1:20:25Bye, guys. Bye. Bye.

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