What’s the Snark on Mary-Kate & Ashley Olsen?

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22:14Christy Noel:Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new Fave footwear? Step into a local croc store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest croc store today. As they neared into adulthood, so as they were nearing 18, there was a lot of obsession with them. And you have to remember in the early 2000s, we were exploiting young women, Hillary, Lindsay, Paris, Nicole, and Mary-Kate and Ashley were not necessarily protected from that either.

22:59Christy Noel:So for instance, at 16 years old, Connie Chung, there's an interview that has resurfaced. And I think it's really been scrubbed from the internet. Connie Chung asking the girls if they were virgins at the age of 16, which is like disgusting. 16? It's like predatory. It is. and I literally remember this website like it was yesterday. I remember this too. Yes, the countdown website until the girls turned 18, which is, again, very predatorial. And this one thing really made tabloids, like it blew up tabloids because Spencer Pratt at this time in like 2008, 2007 was blowing up on the hills and we come to find out that Spencer Pratt attended Campbell Hall, which is a high school that Mary-Kate and Ashley also attended.

23:43Christy Noel:And there's this infamous picture that Spencer Pratt has admittedly admitted to himself saying, I sold this picture of Mary Kay Olsen fucked up beyond belief. She was 17 years old. I sold it to the tabloids for$50 ,000. Spencer Pratt from a very young age has always been a fucking, I don't even want to say hustler is not the right word, but he's always been looking out for number one. Yeah, clout chaser. Clout chaser. And this is such a good example of that. So Mary Kay responded to this because at this point, you have to remember Spencer Pratt was on top on the hills. He was like MTV's biggest villain, America's biggest villain.

24:15Christy Noel:Mary-Kate sat in an appearance on David Letterman. She goes, you know, Spencer used to play on the soccer team for my high school and he does not have a good temper. And she says, yeah, his behavior is really still a mystery to her. And Spencer Pratt is very sensitive. He did not take to Mary-Kate's comments very well. And almost immediately he gave an interview to Us Weekly calling Mary-Kate a troll. And he goes, you know, I forgive her. She's had to go through life as the less cute twin. It must be tough. So fucked up. And I think this is something that Mary Kate, as we get into her story further down this episode, it can't be easy being constantly compared to your sister.

24:49Yeah, I remember how Mary Kate was kind of like the a little rougher around the edges, not like a less attractive like to me, they always looked so much like it was because I think she struggled a little bit more. And I know we'll probably get into this, but she was always kind of like the more edgy one, whereas Ashley was more. Yeah, she had more of like a bad girl persona, whereas Ashley was the more like girl next door.

25:17Christy Noel:Yes. And they always platform them in their movies. Mary Kate was always a sporty one. Mary Kate liked to ride horses. Mary Kate was into soccer. New York Minute, she was like the edgy goth one. The rocker. The rocker. Yeah. But Ashley was like type A organized. And that's kind of how they were positioned from the very beginning. I mean, forget if that was really their personalities in real life. But we were told that that was how they were going to be distinguished amongst one another. Because they physically looked so alike. Yeah. So I can imagine at some point, like me and my sister always talk about this.

25:48Christy Noel:And I'm curious, like, if you feel this way about Mandy. Shout out to Mandy. Shout out Mandy. Me and my sister were so alike that I never felt like we were competing against one another. And I have like a couple of very close girlfriends that have struggled in life, especially in like middle school and high school, always being compared to their like hot older sister. Their older sister was always like, your sister's so gorgeous. She's so cool. We want to be around her. And like some of my friends are like, well, what about me? And I feel like, I don't know, do you understand what I'm saying when it comes to - I totally understand that.

26:17But yeah, Mandy and I have never had that just because I feel like we're so different. We're so different, but like similar in certain ways. But we just always have different senses of style, interests. Like Amanda was definitely like the more, she was a dancer, more athletic. I was more into like fashion and I was a little bit like girlier, I feel like. So we were just so different. But Amanda is by and large, the more successful sister. I always admit that she is so smart. So successful. She is smart. She is. Yeah. She's literally consulted for us before because she is so freaking smart. And like, I've accepted that Amanda's the smart one.

26:56It's okay. I'm, I'm the, I'm the more fashionable one and that's okay. Love you, Mandy.

27:01Christy Noel:No, I love that. Mandy is going to kill me. Mandy, we love you. No, she's so cute. I remember being on this call with her and I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm like a very, I'm an empath. I sense energies. And I was like, I already knew. I was like, I would work with this girl. Like I could tell. Oh, yeah. She was on it. You guys totally like vibe from the get. Yeah. No, I really love her. But yeah, I'm the same way. Like me and my sister, like we are similar, but I think our humor is very similar. But I think appearance wise, we also look pretty similar. So I never felt this like air of competition amongst Audrey.

27:28Christy Noel:But I can imagine Mary-Kate and Ashley when your entire career, your childhood and young adulthood was platformed on being one of two. You're never just Mary-Kate. You're never just Ashley. No, you are Mary-Kate and Ashley. That's basically one word in and of itself. So I can imagine for Mary-Kate, even hearing Spencer Pratt say those things about her, it's got to be rough. So again, 2004, 2005, like young women like Lindsay, Paris, Nicole, Brittany were always talking about their partying ways. And I was looking up a couple of old articles for the research and people were saying things like, you know, there are a few who know Mary-Kate and Ashley who were surprised about them shunning showbiz.

28:02Christy Noel:This former nightclub promoter says that they weren't really much for schmoozing. He's like, they were always a bit different. Like Mary-Kate had a little bit more spunk. Paris, Lindsay, Nicole, they were always dancing on tables. But Mary-Kate and Ashley would be kind of by themselves in a table in the corner. They were always on the scene, always out and about. But they were very, very private. But in the shadows. Living in the shadows. So I just had a bunch and like a couple of pictures of Mary-Kate and Ashley just kind of partying. And it's interesting because when we think about their Our Lips Are Sealed days, Holiday in the Sun, they present very put together.

28:35Christy Noel:they weren't really out uh with pictures of their crotch out on tmz or us weekly right they were always i think smart about their parting because they were fucking doing shit but it wasn't really presented and they weren't tabloid fodder but i think people were still fascinated by them and i think because we've always seen them since they were literal toddlers like i was watching a tiktok of them being interviewed when they were just four years old and they were so cute and like they would even talk about how older men they would be on vacation in hawaii and they would see these sweaty 50 year old men taking photos of them in bikinis, asking them for autographs.

29:09Christy Noel:And then the picture that they will be presenting was them when they were 11 years old. They always felt like they were exploited, I think. And that's a large part of why they wanted to just remove themselves as well. Yeah, yeah. Totally makes sense. It's traumatizing. So let's talk about their relationship history. There's a lot of like surprising people that they've been linked up to that I think a lot of people wouldn't know about. So Ashley Olsen's first really big relationship was Drumroll Please with Matt Kaplan, who is now married to alex cooper and i remember when ashley and matt caplan started dating like i remember hearing his name and i remember he played football whatever but she dated matt for three years when she was between the ages of 15 and 18 and he was three years older than her but she described her romance as pretty like like any other high school romance she said we'll go out to dinner go to a movie it's really boring and following her split with matt caplan she moved to the east coast where her and mary kate both um were attending nyu they shortly dropped out thereafter and we'll get into that but she started dating this guy named scott sartiano who is apparently a major fixture in the new york city party scene i read in this article it's like remember the glory days of butter a la gossip girl and one oh i guess you can thank scott for all these like popping scenes are you aware of any of these of of course of course i don't i don't recall butter as much, but one Oak was like a huge thing.

30:30It's crazy how clubs have kind of like disappeared. Like what happened to club culture? Like we were like all over the clubs, like in my, you know, early twenties, like what happened to that? Cause none of those clubs exist anymore. Gilded Lily, one Oak, like all of those New York city. I don't know. Crazy.

30:47Christy Noel:When I, when I think of one Oak, I think of like Scott Disick and like the Kardashians. Yes. Yes. He was like, he, I don't know, like a spokesperson for them or something. And I feel like he would just get paid to show up there. Like that was his place. Yeah. Ashley also dated Lance Armstrong after he and Cheryl Kroos split up. And interestingly enough, which gives me the ick now in 2025, is Ashley dated Jared Leto for a period of time. She was spotted making out with him at a club in 2008. And she was spotted with him several times throughout the years. But not much is really known about these relationships.

31:20Christy Noel:She also dated for a long period of time, Justin Bartha. and he was the groom in The Hangover. So hot. I think he is so cute. He's fine. Oh, I think he's so hot. And they attended the Met Gala together as well. And she said in an interview to Marie Clara, she goes, this relationship is more important than anything else in this world. After her relationship with Justin Bartha in 2008, she kind of went on to date older businessman Bo's. She dated all of her people, CEO David Schultz, who was later named president of The Row. and then she reportedly moved on with a film director named Bennett Miller who was 49 in 2014 so significantly older men like she was in her early 30s the these guys were like late 40s early 50s she also dated a guy named Richard Sachs who was a financier who was 28 years her senior and finally she met her final match and she started dating this guy named Louis Eichner he's this art guy he kind of reminds me I think it's Eisner Louis Eisner Eisner and he kind of reminds me of like a cook maroney that is jennifer lawrence's husband he's like very much in the art world and he's actually the first younger guy that she dated in a really long time and they got married and they share a son named auto cute in the summer of 2023 cute i love a tall art world guy like cook maroney yeah right he's pretty cute too this lewis yeah he's cute eyes no guys so let's get into relationship history with mary kate olsen she briefly dated henry winkler's son max winkler in 2002 there's a picture of them kind of fucked up at a party um which is cute he looks so much like his dad he looks so much like henry winkler and mary kate's first serious boyfriend was with a guy named david katzenberg who is the son of dream work so also like kind of two famous people getting together which we love like these like nepo sons yes and i think if you think of Campbell Hall where she attended high school, it seems like very much like a lot of nepotism in that school.

33:16Christy Noel:They dated for about a year and broke up just before she had gone on to college at New York University. And interestingly enough, David Katzenberg, who again is the son of DreamWorks co-founder Jeffrey Katzenberg, he went on to date Nikki Hilton. And that becomes pretty important in Mary Kate's relationship history and how it's kind of intersected with the Hilton sisters. Fun fact about Jeffrey Katzenberg. Yeah. Is that he is was the founder of Quibi. Remember Quibi? The toothbrushes? Is it toothbrush? No, sorry. The streaming. Quibi is the streaming service that flopped. Yes. Oh, I didn't know that.

33:53Christy Noel:Okay. So like TV and film. So I think the most infamous relationship in Mary Kate's young life and I think what really damaged her that kind of sent her into a spiral with her health and her mental health was when she was dating a greek shipping heir at who goes by the name of stavros nyarkos the third that's such a like strong name stavros nyarkos the third he ended up cheating on mary kate with paris hilton paris hilton in 2005 after five months of being in a relationship with mary kate and what makes matters worse is that mary kate is actually the one that introduced paris to stavros uh you just could never trust a Greek shipping air.

34:31I mean, don't trust them. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw their cargo ships.

34:38Christy Noel:I was looking at pictures of him and he's just like really a handsome guy. Yeah. I remember when he was dating Paris. I don't remember his relationship with Mary Kate, but to me, he's associated with Paris Hilton. Right. And Mary Kate, she rarely talks about her personal life, but she had an interview with W Magazine and she said about the gossip scandal quote Paris and I always only had nice things to say about each other now I guess you can tell we're not talking and you have to remember that her and Stavros ended up dating right before she headed off to college across the the country to NYU he was still in LA she was only at NYU for a couple months when she found out that he was stepping on on her with Paris she later left New York University and this is when her like eating disorder kind of kicked off I genuinely think this relationship or the fallout of this relationship really really fucking damaged her obviously i think we're all pretty familiar that she ended up dating this banking executive named olivier sarkozy who ended up being her future ex-husband who she divorced in 2020 and who all of the olivier was the half-brother of a former french president named nicholas sarkozy yes who nicholas sarkozy was the one that was married to carla bruni right more nepotism i think so yeah yeah the model carla bruni who bella hadid uh modeled her face after oh but i have such a it's like imprinted in my brain their wedding how they had the bowls of cigarettes thank you for now i feel like whenever anyone gets married like has a destination wedding in like italy or the south of france or whatever they all have bowls of cigarettes i'm like get a personality be be less original you're so funny get a personality no i feel like everyone she like started this trend where everyone's like bulls of cigarettes at their weddings i'm like you are not mary kate olsen give it up it's like it's it's an ick when other people do it with mary kate she's not even trying to be yes exactly it's such an ick when other people do with mary kate i'm like yeah that tracks it's more practical for mary kate than anything it's not even like in vogue for her she's like i just want people to be able to smoke easily at my wedding so yeah november 2015 mary kate and olivier wed in front of 50 close friends and family again yeah the infamous cigarette balls.

36:47Christy Noel:But yeah, they divorced. As the centerpieces. Yes. They later divorced in 2020. And it was said that she escaped to her Hamptons home. And it was kind of a messy divorce. And she had stepchildren from Olivier's like first marriage. But it seems like she's happier without him. And yeah, I think you mentioned this, that there was a large age gap, 17 years. He was much older, man. You would see photos of them at like Knicks games. And they would always pop up and people would be trolling them. But like it was clear she looked like his child. He looked so old and she just is so little. So sometimes you would see, there's a specific picture of him kissing her head and she's like kind of smiling with her shoulders shrugged up.

37:25Christy Noel:And it's like, dude, you guys just look like son and, I mean, father and daughter. Father and daughter, yeah. Let's get into Mary Kate's anorexia diagnosis. And I think the first celebrities I knew about that had anorexia were in like the 70s, the Carpenters. Do you know who I'm talking about? Karen Carpenter. Yes. And then also, if you were a Growing Pains watcher, Tracy Gold, I believe her name is, and she played Cameron's sister on Growing Pains. She had a really severe eating disorder as well with anorexia almost losing her life. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. But I did watch Growing Pains. I loved it with Leonardo DiCaprio too.

37:58Christy Noel:That was his breakout role. Yeah. So good. See, I watched Growing Pains. I didn't watch Full House. Yeah. Watch Growing Pains, miss the full house thing. Yeah, me too. In April 28, 2004, they did this infamous Oprah Winfrey interview that's kind of made its way back to the airwaves. But Oprah asks the girls, I know a new rumor that has recently surfaced has really upset you, right? She goes, you know, the one about eating. And then Ashley, you can tell she's trying to interject on behalf of Mary Kate. You can tell Mary Kate kind of sinks and she doesn't want to talk about it. And Ashley quickly responds and she goes, yeah, you know, people are going to write what they're going to write and she's trying to dismiss it obviously and Ashley goes we try not to read the good or the bad because it just comes with the territory either you're too fat you're too skinny people are just going to write what they want to write and Oprah interjects and goes what size are you by the way and Ashley shut up shut up Ashley Mary Kate literally physically kind of go like this they they're taken aback literally and they go we don't know we don't really think about that we just you know we have stylists whatever it's it's very uncomfortable and again kind of just speaks to the overall conversations we were having in early 2000s where it was totally okay to throw up Paris Hilton's weight, Lindsay Lohan's weight on the cover of Us Weekly, which definitely encouraged so many of our eating disorders, like just fucked up in general.

39:15Christy Noel:So just a day after this Oprah Winfrey interview aired, on April 29th, 2004, Ashley and Mary-Kate are regaled with their Hollywood Walk of Fame star. And there's obviously a photo shoot as they do. And Mary-Kate comes out and like literally this dress and these images are ingrained in my memory. that purple backless dress and mary kate's bones her backbones are protruding from her and it is very concerning and obviously i think it calls attention to like her frail her frail body and you're she's standing next to ashley who's her twin who's also very naturally thin but looks so much bigger than mary kate and on may 15th 2004 the girls do a stint on snl and they do a skit of them pretending to be paparazzis and mary kate screams to her her fake she goes you're so skinny Mary Kay, eat a sandwich, like clearly calling even more attention to the rumors that she's clearly struggling with disordered eating.

40:09Christy Noel:So a week after her 18th birthday, I remember just being so devastated when this happened. In June 2004, it's confirmed that Mary Kay has entered rehab for health concerns. And a person that's kind of speaking on behalf of her family says, you know, she had a car wreck a while ago. And her father said, you know, in order to get your car back, you're going to have to try and gain some weight. And the family had been really kind of surveilling her meals. They were really, really concerned about this. And there's even interviews of Mary Kate comparing her appearance to her sisters. And she said, I distinctly remember in this one interview, she goes, I think Ashley is so pretty, like you're gorgeous.

40:47Christy Noel:And she goes, sometimes I look at the mirror and I say, are you kidding me? Like, why do you look so pretty, Ashley? And I look so ugly. Like there's clearly dysmorphic thoughts. Yeah. She's not seeing what the public is seeing, you know, and it's, I mean, no wonder look at how she's been presented her whole entire life. It makes sense. Two years later in an interview, the girls don't really ever speak on her stint in rehab. And although she doesn't really call out her eating disorder by name, she does kind of give a nod to it. She goes, you know, in an interview, she says, I think it's important that what anybody goes through, and I'm not saying that it's true or not true, you realize that it's a part of growing up.

41:20Christy Noel:Everyone is going to go through hard times. It's a part of life. I think the hardest part to get to is that point of asking for help or reaching out to other people and being honest with yourself. I do not want to go through my life with eyes shut and I don't want to go through it with a closed mind. I want to be aware of things and I'd rather know than not know. So I think she's trying to kind of bring herself up to a level of self-awareness. But you know what's so sad and it's hard not to comment on it, but seeing photos of her, there's like this specific photo I remember seeing over the last couple of years.

41:47Christy Noel:She's like at a pool. Clearly it's like a pap shot. She still looks so thin. To me, I question whether she's ever been able to overcome that demon hurdle in her life. She just looks really malnourished and it makes me feel really sad for her because I'm like oh my god like I don't know it's clear that that's not her natural body like she's restricting so much so to her body looking really frail and it's just very sad as like a lover of her for so long you know yeah devastating but let's get into the probably the darkest part of my notes here and it's Mary Kate's relationship oh my god which yeah I was just so I had just seen the other day for Brokeback Mountain's 20 year anniversary, Brokeback Mountain in theaters.

42:29And it just reignited my obsession with Heath. And then I was like doing the thing where I was like reading a Wikipedia page all over again, reading about his death. And I was like, oh my God, I totally forgot that Mary Kate had such a pivotal role in that day that he was found dead.

42:44Christy Noel:Yes. Yes. So do you remember, of course, like I remember this specific magazine cover, Vanity Fair did a cover article, I think in like 2006 called It's Raining Tweens. And it had Hilary Duff, Raven Simone, Lindsay Lohan, Evan Rachel Wood, Alexis Pledale, the Olsen twins, Amanda Bynes, Mandy Moore, all these people on the cover. And interestingly enough, when Mary-Kate did that interview for Vanity Fair, when asked about her celebrity crush, she said it was Heath Ledger. So she's always kind of had an affinity towards Heath Ledger, even before this tragic accident happened in 2008, right? So if we kind of walk back - I'm so, so sad about Heath.

43:20I'm sorry.

43:20Christy Noel:It's devastating because when you have someone who's so talented. So freaking talented. Like he should have won the Oscar for Brokeback Mountain before he won the Oscar for The Dark Knight. For The Dark Knight, yep. And he got a lot of posthumous awards after his death, of course, because he so deserved it. But he's in so many iconic movies beyond The Dark Knight, even like rom-coms, like 10 Things I Hate About You. I mean. The Knight's Tale. Yeah, he's just, he really is iconic in Brokeback Mountain. Of course, I think was his first time really showing the world. you see me in these rom-coms but I have what it takes to be the serious yes serious actor and interestingly enough when I was doing research for this episode I was like oh my god he was only 28 years old so yeah he never made it to 30 it's so crazy like he had so many years left in him to make good movies and you know what's crazy is when we were that age in 2008 when you think of 28 you're like that's old oh I remember exactly where I was I was on the school bus to a bowling tournament.

44:17Oh, how cute. I was on the bowling team. And I remember we, and we had like flip phones back then. Like we had, you know, just the very rudimentary cell phones and it started just going around that Heath Ledger died. And I remember we were like sophomores in high school. I think that was a big deal to us. That was one of the first celebrity deaths I think.

44:34Christy Noel:Yeah. That I remember at least. Yeah. I remember in high school was like him and Anna Nicole Smith were one of the, well, I'm the rare five-year-old that remembers exactly where I was when princess Diana died. But like, that's, that's not normal. I do remember you telling me about that. That's so funny. So let's walk through that day of Heath Ledger's tragic passing. So on January 22, 2008, Heath Ledger was found dead in his New York City Soho apartment. So at 1pm, the housekeeper went into his bedroom to change a light bulb. She saw that he was alive. He was sleeping. She heard him snoring. So she walked away.

45:06Christy Noel:His housekeeper ended up coming to his apartment around 3pm. she knock knocks and she sees him naked on his bed face down and there is a rolled up$20 bill that's found at the foot of the bed there's like prescription drugs strewn around the apartment and the housekeeper I mean excuse me the masseuse freaks out she's like oh my god so the first person that the masseuse ends up calling is not 911 she calls Mary Kate once no answer calls Mary Kate Olson a third time to no answer. And at that point, the masseuse realizes I need to call 911 something is really, really wrong with Heath Ledger. So she calls 911, the paramedics come and arrive at Heath Ledger's apartment, pronouncing him dead within like, minutes of arriving.

45:53Christy Noel:They knew at that point, he had been dead for at least like an hour, an hour and a half at that point. And what's really interesting is Diana, this masseuse, she ends up spending nine minutes making three calls to Mary Kate prior to calling authorities for help. And that is very, very bizarre right and it actually kind of reminds me of when did you watch demi lovato's youtube documentary no this was like 2019 but they basically recounted when they found demi had overdosed on heroin and her personal assistant rushes to call 9-1-1 and they play back the 9-1-1 call and the assistant's going we have an emergency at this this address but when you come please do not do the ambulance um sirens she's like i don't want to call attention to this to this 9-1-1 dispatcher was like we can't do that like if we need to call we need to put the sirens on because it's more effective for us to get to your victim faster.

46:41Christy Noel:Yeah. Right. So it just kind of reminds me like it almost feels like the masseuse was trying to evade authorities before getting the full story as to what happened. And the first person that she called was Mary Kate. Right. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins.

47:25Christy Noel:Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. This summer, no excuses. Double down when everyone else disconnects. At Equinox, that's high-performance living. Science-backed training, real results. Start today at equinox.com. Should she say that about the kisses? Is that weird? She doesn't care. She presses send. This is the love story of real hinge couple Daniel and Roisin, written and read by me, Rufy Thorpe. Listen to the free audiobook now. at this point i guess after the third when she finally gets a hold of mary kate and the paramedics are already arriving actually i mean mary kate had sent over her private security to check out what was going on in the scene and in the moments that she finally made a call to mary kate olsen she goes i think he may be dead i'm about to call 911 there were a lot of drugs found in heath ledger's system upon his passing when they did a toxicology and he i didn't realize this, Sophie, but Heath Ledger actually was an addict.

48:37Christy Noel:Like it was known that he was an addict. Did you know this? Yeah. So we were saying this before we started recording, just like shooting the shit. It's there's kind of a common misconception that like the dark night was so troubling for him to film that he developed this, this drug problem to cope with the stress of the movie and his method acting, which is not the case. Like he had problems with drugs for quite some time. And this was very clearly an accidental overdose. Like I feel like people have thrown around the word suicide and, you know, he was so troubled because of the dark night. And it's like, no, this precedes the dark night.

49:11Christy Noel:Yeah. And I was watching interviews with his family acknowledging, yeah, he had a problem. And I think unfortunately the drug problem ultimately won. So the drugs that were found in Heath's system when he died was oxycodone, which is narcotic painkiller. Hydrocodone, which is another narcotic painkiller, also known as Vicodin, diazepam, which is an anti-anxiety drug, which is also known as Valium, alprazolam, which is also known as Xanax, doxylamine, which the trade name is Unisome, which is a sleeping pill, and then temazepam, which is another sleeping medication. Yeah, Unisome actually is just over the counter.

49:47You don't even need a prescription. But yeah, Yeah, crazy to be mixing Oxycontin, Vicodin, Valium, Xanax. I mean, on top of the sleep stuff like Unisom and Restoril is the other one. That's a crazy combination.

50:04Christy Noel:The cocktail of drugs was too strong and potent to like for anyone to survive. And he was like a bigger guy. Like, it's not like, you know, this is a lot. They said, I think, hold on, I'm sorry. One second, because I was just reading about this the other day that he probably did this a lot. He probably did mix these drugs quite often. Makes sense. It was, yeah, the forensic pathologist asserted that Ledger might have survived if the hydrocodone and oxycodone had been left out of the combination of drugs. Got it. I mean, it's like woulda, coulda, shoulda, you know? But apparently that's what really, so like maybe he had been like mixing Xanax and Vicodin but throwing in that combination made it lethal.

50:49Christy Noel:at that point. Right. It's completely tragic. And unfortunately, Mary-Kate was very much in the mix because it's very strange that the masseuse called her multiple times before calling paramedics, which called into question from the government of people that were investigating this death, what was her involvement, right? So Mary-Kate was in fact called to testify about her relationship with Heath and she formally pleaded the fifth. Her attorneys demanded that Mary-Kate be granted immunity in order her to speak on what her relationship was with Heath, what his relationship was with drugs before his passing.

51:21Christy Noel:And she refused. She's like, I'm not going to speak to federal investigators about Heath unless I'm granted immunity from the prosecution. So the immunity was granted. So she at the, you know, dispense of her lawyer, he had provided investigators with relevant information, including a chronology of events surrounding his death. And of course, this causes a lot of questions about their relationship. And although her attorney says, quote, Mary-Kate Olsen had nothing whatsoever to do with the drugs found in Heath Ledger's home or in his body, and she does not know where he obtained them. Why, again, was she first called?

51:54Christy Noel:And people have theorized a lot on the internet. I've seen a lot of speculation that the apartment that he was in, the reason I'm putting this in quotes, the reason the masseuse called Mary-Kate first was because Heath was actually subletting that apartment from Mary-Kate, and it was her home to begin with. I haven't actually seen like a confirmed report from any reputable sources that that was in fact true. So for all intents and purposes, I'm going to assume that he that was his apartment. It was not Mary Kate. So I think that theory kind of it's a wash. There's also a lot of conversations about it's not a surprise, right?

52:22Christy Noel:I think we all know that the Olsen twins, there's a lot of people know that they use. I think that's like a thing that we've all kind of it's a kept secret in Hollywood. They're not out there showing their vagina to photographers and are out there snorting lines like Lindsay Lohan and bathrooms at clubs. But I think we all kind of know it's the secret that Ashley and Mary Kate use. And people were theorizing, perhaps, and this is all alleged, obviously, people were theorizing, perhaps, that the masseuse called Mary Kate because she was the one that actually facilitated getting him the drugs. She supplied him with the drugs.

52:53Christy Noel:Yeah. Maybe that she wasn't even necessarily allegedly his drug dealer, but she knows the supplier or the drug dealer that she connected Keith with. And they were partying. And it's not a secret. they were seen together for like, I think three months ahead of his death. They were very much like in the same circle hanging out all the time. They had a romantic relationship. And if he was using, was it maybe, was it her drugs that he died from? Did, like, was it prescribed to her? Did he, did she give him these drugs that later led to his death? Like, we still do not know. And obviously from a prosecutor, prosecutorial standpoint, like she's exonerated.

53:28Christy Noel:She's not even, her name isn't even in the mix. Right. But I think, what, what do you think of all this, Sophie? I mean, that's, that makes the most sense, right? Like why else would the masseuse be calling Mary Kate before even calling the paramedics? Is it like three times? Is it like, what the fuck are, do I have the okay to do this because you might get in trouble? Like, do we need to get our stories straight. I just can't think of another reason other than Mary Kate may have facilitated the acquisition of the drugs. I think you're absolutely right. And a lot of people had raised eyebrows on this.

54:05Christy Noel:They're like, if Mary Kate had nothing to do with it, why is she granting being granted immunity or requesting immunity so she could speak? She's basically, I won't talk unless you guys promise me this. Right. And so I think at this point forward in 2008 this is when the both girls not just mary kate have completely shut out the public to me this was the event that told them we are no longer going to be public figures i know we're kind of dipping in between like private and public life we're seen out and about with jared leto we're at the mech out we don't want anything to do with this anymore i think this really traumatized mary kate and by proxy ashley olsen and i think this is the reason why they are so private that's a really interesting theory that like this was when kind of it switched for them from being public figures to being just completely behind the scenes yep i think this event coupled with them having no autonomy over their life up until they were 18 when they were actually adults they were like we're taking our life into our own hands we will not be no we will not be stage monkeys and we're also not going to be a fixture of the public of people questioning what i had to do with heath ledger's death and think about it like people like you and i were chronically online like we know this about Heath Ledger's death and Mary Kate Olsen's lack of involvement or lack of, right?

55:17Christy Noel:But I think the majority of people don't know how deeply ingratiated Mary Kate was with Heath Ledger and on that day specifically because they've chosen to just completely revoke themselves from the public eye, which I don't blame them. And I don't honestly think, like if you were asking my honest opinion, I think they were parting a shit ton together. I think their relationship was heavily built on partying and drug use and using. And I think like you said, the masseuse realized at that point when he was dead fuck she is always around here she probably left her drugs the other day he overdosed on them and now we got to figure out what we're going to say to the cops when they arrive like that's what i think if you were to ask me this is all my assumption but there's a lot of weird things just around this around this death that like cannot be ignored you know she didn't kill him it was completely an accident but like she had more of a heavy hand in it i think then her and her team were willing to admit totally that makes the most sense and like why she's probably continued to be traumatized like it kind of reminds me of god this is like so dark but remembering gossip girl and blake lively's like i killed someone and then the scene cuts and then it finds you find out that like serena vanderwoodson handed that guy a mirror full of coke that ended up killing him it's like kind of that she didn't kill him he probably would have taken the coke anyways it was probably like something that was bound to happen it wasn't a matter of if maybe when because his drug use was so severe at the time right but how can mary kate not feel a semblance of guilt like i'm not trying to totally her at all but it's like there's there's just like a sliver of culpability there yes yes um so that's really dark i think if we just kind of end off to where they are today and their impact on fashion and in the row and i think in like the early 2000s they were really kind of branded as this homeless chic and her Birkin bag that was so beat up.

57:09Christy Noel:Yes. She like really popularized like the beat up Birkin. Yes. And it became like a fixture of the coffee cups from Starbucks and the Birkin bags and the homeless chic kind of boho look. Also remember Elizabeth and James? Of course. That was like their contemporary-ish brand that they started, I think around the same time as The Row, if I'm not mistaken. So it was, we have a more affordable contemporary line. And then we have the row, which is the luxury brand. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that, that later sunset and now it's only the row. Yeah. But the way that they kind of market the row, actually, no, there's no marketing at all marketing at all, I should say.

57:46Christy Noel:But the way that people think of the row is it's a core wearable part of a wardrobe. So for instance, a t-shirt in and of itself, it could have been higher because of inflation, 600 bucks. And they have been able to build an incredible brand that is like really renowned by the fashion industry. And you can probably speak to this more in terms of like the accolades. awards, but they've really platformed themselves on being a brand that quite literally exudes quiet luxury because there is zero marketing. Yeah. So just like background as someone who works in like the luxury fashion space, just like give a little bit of context.

58:19The row is seen on the same level. You could argue as some of the most historic and iconic fashion houses. Think of Prada, Dior, Louis Vuitton. I mean, those are like major luxury houses with decades and decades and decades of history there. Yeah. Whereas the row only started in what year was it? It was 2006, 2006. And the fact that the row is on the same level and you could argue it's like, well, no, actually Prada, this and Louis Vuitton that, yeah, there's probably more name recognition. But my point is that luxury shoppers are reaching for the row and shopping for the road just as much, if not more than they are shopping for Louis Vuitton and Prada and Gucci.

59:07And the row, it's aesthetic especially is in that quiet luxury space, which is, you know, was a huge trend. It's kind of like not as much of a trend as it was like two years ago when Sophia Ritchie got married and everyone's like, Sophia Ritchie is such quiet luxury. I hate her. I know she's so annoying. But yeah, so quiet luxury is and there aren't labels. It's very unassuming. It's very if you know, you know.

59:33Christy Noel:Yes. But yeah, so fashion like real fashion lovers love it because it's just, you know, a really like classic crisp button down and like trousers that you would never know unless, you know, known for really high quality. And yeah, it's just crazy the impact that they have made on the fashion industry, the luxury fashion industry, which is so, so hard to break into. Yeah, no, that's perfectly said. And I think kind of speaking to why, why it is so luxurious. It's like the focus is remained entirely on the garments, the fabrics, the craftsmanship, the fabrication, the overall design. They're not selling like crazy designs or anything really different.

1:00:13Christy Noel:It's more or anything flashy. Like they're not selling Louis Vuitton is the monogram print like Gucci has the horse bit. There's no flashy symbol or anything at all. It's just if you know, you know. Yeah. And I saw this quote and it says the brand demonstrates what they believe that the products speak for. It sells themselves. It's unassuming. It's elegant. It's effortlessly discreet, which exactly reflects Mary-Kate Ashley. Unassuming, elegant, discreet. Yes. it's a perfect like brand synergy i think between it being mary kate ashley's brand who are so fucking private and the quiet luxury brand that they are now founders of it's fucking incredible i love it and allegedly i was reading online that in order to enter the row offices you need to sign an nda because again the girls are so private and they don't want just like interns running around just spilling the tea i mean it's really cool that they're like so hands-on still from everything i've heard they're extremely hands-on it's not like they just handed this brand like slapped their name on it and handed it to some real designer.

1:01:14Like they are like very hands-on. And also I personally, do you own anything from the row? I don't because it's out of my price range.

1:01:22Christy Noel:I want to so badly. You guys, they started this summer flip-flop trend with the row flip-flops that costs$700. They're flip-flops. So like a lot of the prices, like you said, like a$600 t-shirt, like it's kind of insane and kind of stupid, but people are paying for what they think is like really high quality. I don't know. And it works. It works for them. They're clearly selling lots and lots and lots of items every single day to these real fashion lovers. So they're doing something right. And they're always, the row is always spotted on really a list. Celebrities like Jennifer Lawrence is a huge wearer of the row.

1:01:57Christy Noel:Kendall Jenner is always wearing the row. A lot of celebrities wear it. Gigi Hidde. It's kind of like if I had to compare it, Like it's a little bit similar to like Bottega Veneta where it's like just really classic, clean, quiet luxury. Like it doesn't have, like I said, the labels everywhere or anything. It's for the anti-label whores. Dude, if we ever make it big, then I'm going to gift you something from the row. Oh my God. Stop. I would love a row 90s bag. Oh my God. I feel like I can't. So like a row, like as you guys probably know, I'm like a handbag freak. I consider myself kind of a collector.

1:02:34I don't have any row bag, but I love like the Margo bag has been people have said it's like the new Birkin, like it's more covetable than the Birkin for the past year or so. I love the 90s bag, which is the little like pouch. They just have so many good bag styles that again are very unassuming, but really high quality.

1:02:52Christy Noel:Yes. And what I read also is interestingly enough, they're not the designers. They're actually very heavily involved in the creation and the operations. Right. I read something that Ashley does like some of the finance. I'm like Ashley with like in Excel. I love that about her. I love it after your own heart. Yeah, I was like, that's so cool. And then Mary Kate runs more of the operations. But I thought that was really cool that to your point, even though they're not the actual like designer and sketching or whatever, they're extremely hands on. They're there. Yes, they're there, which we love.

1:03:21Christy Noel:And you can often see them smoking outside the office. I love those pap shots of them just like children they're like black to the office it's crazy because a lot of these celebrities do you think fucking like i don't know who's a celebrity who started a fashion brand oh i was gonna say like hailey bieber's road but i don't don't come for me like i people say she is involved i'm like but i don't think she's involved like this you think that hailey bieber is going to an office and like sitting in a conference room no she's come with me to to help build road she like goes on like a 20 minute zoom call and that's like her day you guys like come on she's give me a break give me a fucking break hailey beaver is not today and that's fine she's not sitting in you know the little phone booths out at offices hailey beaver's not taking calls from a little like soundproof phone booth come on you guys mary kate and ashley are in no hailey beaver is at sushi park every fucking day she's not at the road office is that sushi park oh my god that's sushi park remember we walked by we were like oh my god it's a strip mall it's sushi bar but that's that on that on Mary Kay and Ashley this was a very special episode for me to research and record because like they just when I think of my childhood they're standing right there alongside me as my sister would probably agree and I'm very happy to have taken you guys with the pro through their story and obviously there's so much to be said about their career and the influence that they had and continue to have but I think these are good kind of nuggets of things that people probably don't know yeah no this was very interesting thank you so much Christy for walking us through it.

1:04:53And I definitely have, you know, like you said, there's so much nostalgia there and there's such a deep appreciation for what they've built when it comes to the row. And, you know, you got to respect it, especially when you see how many child actors turn out compared to how they've turned out.

1:05:07Christy Noel:I just came across Amanda Bynes' TikTok today. It's, it's, it's tough. It's really sad. It's yeah. We might have to do an episode on Amanda of binds but that could get real dark real fast yeah maybe a patreon episode yeah that's a good idea um speaking of patreon we have ad free episodes over there every tuesday thursday so you don't have to listen to the episodes with ads on the main and then we also do a bonus episode every wednesday so head on over there patreon.com slash snarkbait pod for more content otherwise you know where to find us i'm christy no at christy noel underscore underscore sophie is Sof underscore Ross, you can find us everywhere at Snark Bay pod, and we will see you on the next one, wherever you find us.

1:05:51See you then. Bye. Bye.

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