What’s the Snark on “Survivor”?

30:51I've watched, like I said, all of the first 35 seasons. And I remember this vividly. She was extremely distraught. He definitely seems to have touched her inappropriately. And she kind of had an outburst and announced that she would not continue the game. She said, you know, it went too far. I'm done. There's no way I can you, with my emotions, push to the ground that much. And yeah, she left the game. and this divided a lot of longtime fans and I feel like it this was obviously before the Me Too movement this was the year 2004 when the this all-star season was filmed and people were like well why was her reaction so delayed like people didn't understand how something like this works at the time how trauma can present itself it's not a one formula and if you deviate outside that formula you are not traumatized that make it make sense that doesn't make sense yes exactly and she described it as you know I just kept reliving the incident just kept eating into me more and more like a cancer in interviews she made it clear she felt sexually violated even if the physical contact was brief and oh and I forgot to mention that he was naked during this challenge too I mean I completely understand why that felt incredibly violating and as hours go on days why that gets more and more uncomfortable the longer you sit with it so yeah yep exactly they ended up being put on the early show on CBS together after the episode aired said that you know they had put the it was water under the bridge no pun intended she said that Richard half apologized and he maintains that it was unintentional and rumors were that she would file a lawsuit but ultimately she never did she said she did contemplate it though she said it was just so traumatizing emotionally draining I just wanted to put it behind me and she did say that the network did a good job of treating her concerns with respect which that's great which for that time that says a lot exactly exactly so survivor outback season two this was 2001 like i said this was the most watched season of survivor to this day it premiered after the super bowl drew 43 million viewers for its premiere and averaged 30 million weekly viewers the cast were superstars just like the first season i think even more so with the second season because again even more people watched it colby donaldson was america's sweetheart and he ended up getting he was like this good looking all-american like good at challenges and he ended up getting you know roles in hollywood and i actually was watching red eye the movie red eye with uh rachel mcadams oh it's our favorite movie that's another yeah killian murphy and rachel mcadams he's in that he plays like a bodyguard for like the president or something yes i i just had to google who he was and i at first i didn't recognize him but immediately when i typed in Donaldson red eye iconic he was yes love it he was America's sweetheart it was crazy so handsome oh my god very handsome at the time he ends up being a fucking pussy like he comes back in later seasons and every appearance that he comes back on is just worse for him like I actually think he's so annoying but that second season he was just like the ultimate just like I said all American good-looking guy Jerry Manthe however who also was on that season was America's most hated person didn't do anything really she was outspoken she was like opinionated she was strategic and she was pretty and she was kind of like flirtatious which naturally made america hate her i mean god forbid a woman be flirtatious outspoken and attractive and strategic and smart yeah i stand jerry i stand jerry manthe she ends up coming back for later seasons also and gets redemption truly redemption i love her so much and also i know i mentioned this but this was the longest season this was 42 days in the australian outback versus 39 days that they would have after this and now 26 post-covid and this was like back when the elements were real i mean the elements still are real like in the modern day survivor but it's also like you're in fiji you know like yeah there are like rainstorms and there are you know uh you know some things elements yeah there are elements to a degree but oh my god the australian outback like there was i remember there was one episode where the entire camp flooded everything at camp was wiped away it was washed away i mean their food their shelter everything season three in africa there were like lions oh my god there was a constant threat of lions there was lions yes literally lions that would stalk outside of their camp.

35:27Nope. Drawing the line there. And then elephant shit in their water supply. What? Now they're given bug spray and sunscreen, but in the early seasons, they weren't. So Marquesas, which was a Boston Rob's season, I remember they were all like, they had bug bites on every inch of their bodies. Like this was real. And during a reward trip in Survivor, the Australian Outback, Colby Donaldson actually removed coral from the Great Barrier Reef to take home as a souvenir. It's obviously very illegal. In the same trip, a helicopter involved in the production flew. And this was during a reward challenge where they got to like go to the Great Barrier Reef.

36:02A helicopter involved in production flew around protected seabirds. Both actions violated Australian law and Bark Bird had to apologize. I can't believe that like Colby Donaldson was like, yeah, let me take like a piece of the Great Barrier Reef. Put it in my duffel bag for when I travel. Put it in my duffel bag. Put it in my checked bag. In my checked bag. Okay, so Survivor Thailand season five. And this is, again, another early controversy that I don't think was handled well. I think that the Sue Hawk and Richard Hatch incident was handled better than this was. And this was when contestant Gandia Johnson accused fellow contestant Ted Rogers of grinding on her in her sleep.

36:47And he claimed that he was, he was like, so, you know, just deep in sleep. He thought he was with his wife. He forgot where he was. And he apologized initially, but then later completely denied any wrongdoing. And this led to a heated confrontation. You can see that Gondia was extremely upset. And, you know, she also was on a cast with a bunch of horrible misogynists like Brian Heidek, who ended up winning that season. And also Clay Jordan, who was a piece of shit. So she was never going to be believed in the first place, but none of her cast believed her. And she was quickly voted out. And everyone took Ted's side over hers.

37:26It split their Chewiegon tribe, which was their tribe name. And yeah, the issue was completely downplayed at the reunion by Jeff. And Gandia said this was one of the worst experiences of her life. And actually, Entertainment Weekly did a retrospect during the pandemic when Survivor was put on pause by interviewing all of these old contestants. and it's really interesting to read some of their old interviews. But she said, I know what happened and for it to be minimized to such a small degree as that, not knowing that that was going to be said at the reunion, as in the downplaying. There's no sensitivity to the shit.

37:59They already had it how they were going to play it. So no one was going to believe her to begin with. Was there any, I'd imagine there's obviously no footage because it was like during a sleeping period of time when they weren't filming. Like, did you see any? Not that I'm discounting it. I'm just curious, like what was shown? I did watch the season and they always had, I want to say that it was shown. I mean, even when they were sleeping, there were always camera people around. I honestly, it's been a while since I've watched the season, so I can't remember exactly what was shown, but it 100 % happened.

38:29Yeah, of course. And because Ted admitted to it at first, he was like, yeah, oh my God, I'm sorry. I thought you were my wife and blah, blah, blah, but then ended up denying it. And then everyone took Ted's side and no one believed her. How convenient, you're sleepwalking. Yeah, how convenient. Yeah. Exactly. So this, again, was something that was not handled well. So moving on to Survivor Pearl Islands, like I said, an iconic season, season seven, 2003. This was a pirate theme and is regarded as one of the greatest seasons of Survivor of all time. Johnny Fairplay, Andrew Savage, Savage, Rupert.

39:05I'm sure you know about the Johnny Fairplay. Grandma lie, Christy. No, I don't. Yeah. Johnny Fairplay, he sounds, that name sounds familiar, but. He was on House of Villains. He's like an iconic reality TV villain. Gotcha. Yeah, his name sounds very familiar. Later, like when you're one of the last contestants, I want to say like final six or seven, one of the reward challenges will be you compete for a visit with your family or friends, with a loved one, the loved one visit. So he had conspired with his friend before his friend visited for the loved one's visit. So this was him being like, hey, if I make it, we're going to do this thing where you tell me that my grandma died and then everyone will feel bad for me and it'll get me farther in the game.

39:50Oh, he conspired with one of his friends offline before going on the show that if I make it this far, this is what's going to happen. Yeah, before going on the show. Yeah. So his friend Dan shows up and Johnny goes, this is like so iconic, the scene, even though it's like obviously a horrible lie uh he goes johnny goes how's grandma and he goes she died dude and he's obviously like crying even though it's all like acting damn he's a good actor if he can turn on the tears that it was shocking and when you're watching it as a viewer you're like oh my god that's so sad and then it cuts it cuts to him in a confessional being like my grandma's just fine she's probably watching jerry springer right now oh my god i know crazy i can't be good like karma or juju to put that out into the universe no obviously not but that's what johnny fairplay did to get ahead you have to watch it because you have to watch no i'm i'm like like i'm juice right now like i can't wait after work to watch this which by the way sorry where is the streaming i know i could just google this do you know hulu i i watch survivor on crime okay crime video with but you need a paramount plugin i have the paramount plugin so either on paramount plus or Prime via the Paramount plugin.

41:01Everything's moving to Paramount these days. You know, I think it's time for me. If there's another way to watch it, you guys let me know, but that's how I watch Survivor personally. So Survivor Vanuatu, this is season nine, 2004. Obviously we're skipping around. There are some seasons we're not mentioning, but we're going to go through some of the notable moments slash scandals. This is when Jeff starts dating a contestant, Julie Berry. And apparently they only dated after filming Rafa. You could tell that he like was obsessed with her during filming. and kind of this is jeff the jeff that kind of sexually no jeff probes the host oh sorry sorry okay jeff jeff probes the host gotcha jeff when i say jeff yeah jeff probes so uh he was in his 40s at this time and she was in her early 20s so like kind of girl but she was he was obsessed with her and this was the season that chris dottery doherty i don't even know how to pronounce his last name on us.

41:57I'm doing a really bad job of pronouncing contestants' names, but there are just so many and they all have, you know, different names. Anyway, Chris won. And this was an interesting season because there was an alliance of women. And originally the tribes were divided men versus women. And the women ended up having the majority going into the merge. So it was like, oh my God, the women are going to take it. Like this is an easy path. Just take out the rest of the men. We have the majority alliance. And then Chris weaseled his way in and got the women to turn against each other. And then that ended up screwing Julie, who Jeff had a crush on.

42:29And so Jeff was so mean to Chris at the reunion. And it was like, you're just a liar. You are a dishonest person. Were people aware that Jeff and Julie - Not at that time, because it happened after filming. Gotcha. It reminds me of Chris Harrison dating Andy Dorfman. Do you remember that? Oh my God, I forgot that that happened. Yeah. And I think maybe someone else, but I think for sure, Oh, Selma Almeri. Remember her from Sean Lowe's season? This is such a throwback. I could do a whole Bachelor episode. I don't know if I watched Sean Lowe's season. Yeah. Oh, that was really with Catherine. And Chris Harrison dated her?

43:04One of the contestants. Yeah. Selma. Chris Harrison is so weird. He's so dark. I saw him one time in Newport. He thought he was like so cool. He was walking around with his wife and he like wanted to be recognized so badly and I didn't even flinch. And you know me. I loved him. Oh my God. That's so funny. Yeah. You didn't flinch? Wow. Yeah. That's when it's telling you something. Wow. He was begging to be recognized. Yeah. So Jeff was like, you are deceptive and dishonest to Chris just because he screwed over his girlfriend or his crush. And in general, Jeff like definitely plays favorites. He can be really mean to contestants he doesn't like, which is sad.

43:38Again, like I get sometimes I need like a break from watching Survivor. Like it's been a couple of weeks since I've watched a season recently because I get sad. Because I'm like, first of all, everyone's being mean to this person. whether they deserve it or not they're getting voted out like jeff is being mean to this person jeff overall is an amazing host but he definitely can play favorites like he loves he loves an all american like guy who's good at challenges like he loved colby he loved boss and rob like he loves like the masculine yeah you know it's one of the bros those are either like a really hot girl or one of the bros those are always his favorites otherwise the popular kid yeah exactly which Speaking of which, there are definitely contestants that he has not been that nice to.

44:22Survivor, unfortunately, has a history of ostracizing contestants with disabilities. So one example is Christy. She was the first deaf cast member on Survivor Amazon. This was season six. Actually, Rob Sesternino's season. Rob Sesternino, as we know, is on the season of The Traitors. He was, unfortunately, banished early on, which a lot of people were upset about because he's a really good strategist and really good Survivor player. I think he was voted off like day one. He was murdered. He was murdered. I think he was like, yeah, the second person murdered. Very unfortunate. Honestly, I wanted to watch him play.

44:58But Christy says that she felt isolated throughout the entire time. I felt excluded because I didn't know how to share my needs with my fellow castaways, nor did they know how to work with me, which is, it sounds like she is, you know, she gave them grace also. She was like, I know it's different being around someone who can't hear, especially, you know when they're at camp at night and they just have like a bonfire oh and that's another thing about survivor christy i like keep forgetting that you don't know like the basics of survivor yeah they have to like start fires if they don't start a fire they don't like get to drink water they don't get to eat like they would be so useless oh my god i would be fucked yeah i think about it sometimes and like a tiebreaker there's like a tiebreaker at the final four that has happened before where if the votes are split there's a fire making challenge and the person who makes a fire first goes through and the person who can't make a fire goes home.

45:47And I always think like I need to practice making a fire. I don't plan on going on Survivor anytime soon, but it's like I need to know just in case. Yeah, basic, not life skills, but outdoor skills, I feel like would be good to just have in your back pocket. Yeah, just in case what percentage of baby snarks know how to start fires? I'm I'm very curious. I don't even know how to start one in like my in-laws fireplace. Like when I watch Henry do it, I'm like, wow, that's impressive. And that's with like a Duraflame and like a lighter, you know, like they don't have anything. You literally on Survivor, like they'll get flint and that'll be like an early reward is getting flint or, you know, matches or whatever it is.

46:26But I have watched people on Survivor literally start fires from a pair of glasses with the sun. You know, now that you're saying this, it's like one of those random questions. What is a matchbox? Like, how does that work? Why is it that you swipe it and then fire ignites? I think it's the friction. I think it's the friction. Right. But like what is in that matchbox strip that causes? I don't know. Like, like just, I don't know. I could probably ask AI or something, but interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how anything works, honestly. But anyway, my point is, my point is that because all they would have for, for light was a bonfire, you could not see each other.

47:07All you have is hearing. And Christy was at such a disadvantage during camp conversations at night. It 100 % hindered her social game, unfortunately. Of course, yeah. And she ended up making it nearly to the finals and placing sixth despite the disadvantage, which is crazy. Her only downfall was she was toggling between alliances and couldn't make up her mind. And they were like, let's just get rid of Christy because she can't make up her mind and she's trying to play both sides. So she like made it really far and did a really good job despite the fact that she was deaf. Nina Porsche, on the other hand, this was the second deaf contestant on season 30.

47:47And the theme of this season, the themes get crazier as the show goes on. Blue collar versus white collar versus no collar. So this is blue collar workers versus white collar workers versus like the nomads and the artists that are no collar. Nina was on the no collar tribe and she was a contestant who I felt like Jeff was not very nice to, unfortunately. And I felt really bad for her because she was on a tribe with like all like young hot people and they were just mean to her. And Joe Anglim, Joe, whatever his name is, especially was not nice to her, was conspiring against her the entire time.

48:23And he it was so horrible to watch because he also was painted as the survivor golden boy and like a challenge beast. He came back for multiple seasons. Jeff loved him. and meanwhile Nina felt really ostracized it was really sad she was like crying a lot she said I miss 90 % of the conversations out there I have to be looking at people to hear them I do a little bit of lip reading to help me understand what people are saying so if you're not looking at me I can have trouble understanding so I missed a lot of conversation and she was constantly being like I you like I can't hear you I'm just envisioning her like popping her head up like wait can you repeat that I know it was really sad it was really gonna make me cry that's like really sad to watch um other contestants with disabilities were were chad crittenden from uh season nine vanuatu he was the first amputee cast member he lost his lower right leg to cancer two years prior to filming and so he played with a prosthetic foot and he started the season wearing long pants and did not initially reveal his leg to the tribe but once he did everyone was surprised because he was such a strong player and they ended up eliminating him fairly quickly because they thought he was a jury threat like they were like this is a guy who could win it all because you know he has this he'll get the jury's sympathy or whatever um so it ended up being a disadvantage for him in a different way even though he was just as strong in challenges if not stronger than the rest of the cast kelly bruno season 21 nicaragua uh was also an amputee on survivor and she was also a strong physical contender and challenge threat, but contestant Nayanka Mixon was so mean to her, openly bullied her, shoved her to the ground to snatch a hidden immunity idol clue, later told the camera she wanted to throw Kelly's artificial leg into the fire.

50:12So she was... That's like a violence threat. Oh, it was horrible. Nayanka was horrible. She's like one of my least favorite Survivor contestants of all time. And she ended up quitting the game before... Yeah, she ended up quitting. So she's looked at as a quitter. When you said throwing Kelly's artificial leg into the fire, I'm sorry, what I thought of was Aviva in her fake leg, throwing it on her. The only thing fake about me is this. Yeah. It's like such a, like, just, it'd be one thing if she did that to her own leg, but to threaten to do that with someone else's leg is horrible. Yeah. Crippling them without that, you violent piece of shit.

50:47Ew. I hate this girl. Horrible. Yeah. So jumping back to 2006, Survivor Cook Islands. this was a big controversial season because guess what the tribes there were four tribes and they were they were divided by their ethnicity you know you know what i'm thinking of what when we were talking about antm you go hey remember when they race swapped race swapped on antm right but like it's just like it's giving the same energy it's giving it's giving antm totally yeah exactly that's what i was gonna say in the early 2000s the way people worry about race was so weird. So there were four tribes. So they were, they were divided into the black tribe, the Asian tribe, the Latino tribe, and the white tribe.

51:34What if you're mixed? They, I think there were probably mixed people, but they were, went into the, the one of their, you know, if there was a mixed Asian person that was Asian and white, they were on the Asian tribe because the white tribe was just, the white tribe was just Aryan, pure white. It was so bad. That's so bad. So bad. But I will say the season was the birth of Parvati. And you know Parvati from The Traitors. No. Wait, Parvati? You watched The Traitors season two, right? Remind me? Yeah, that was the first season I ever watched. And then obviously this season. Parvati Shallow, she was a traitor.

52:08And she was the one with the headbands. You know Parvati. Oh my god, Christy. Wait, hold on. Christy, do not call yourself a reality TV fan. I really can't with Christy not knowing Parvati. You know Parvati. You watch The Traitors. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Wait, no. I don't think she was on last. No, she was on season two. Did you not watch season one? No, I did. Of the traitors. I did. I just don't remember. Okay. I'm telling you, I have like a horrible memory. You guys don't, please don't judge Christy for this. Like I know that's bad. Reality TV fans. Christy, Parvati is a reality TV legend.

52:41An absolute legend. So also Ozzy, this was Ozzy's first season. Yule famously won this season. And something that's controversial about Yule winning this season is that this was when... No, I feel like she was in season one because she's with Tamara. No, she wasn't. She was in season two, I promise you. Don't tell me, Chrissy. You don't know anything about this. Parvati or the Traders. She was in the chart with Phaedra. Remember? Phaedra goes, Parvati. No, I'm telling you, I don't remember this woman. I believe you, but I just don't remember it. You didn't watch Traders season two then? I watched the Dylan Efron one.

53:15Oh, then you didn't watch Traders season two. I thought you watched all of the seasons. You only watched season three. Yes, I think so. Oh, Christy, you have work to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, wait, this is not ringing a bell. No, you have work to do then. You need to go back and watch season one. You haven't watched season one of The Traitors? That's with Kyle Cook is on it. Yeah, I haven't watched. Like, yeah, Jill F.O. was out. That was my gateway drug. Okay, okay. You need to go back and watch this. Parvati is a reality TV legend, though. She has now won multiple seasons of Survivor.

53:45She is known as one of the best Survivor contestants of all time and therefore is really exciting when she went on The Traitors. And, uh, yeah, so this choice to race divide the tribes came from the criticism that Cyber was Survivor was not ethnically diverse enough. Well, I don't think this is the way to do it. Yeah. And then basically segregate, literally like Jim Crow. Yeah. Yeah. And a ton of sponsors dropped their support of the show when this happened because it got so much controversy. Um, CBS proceeded, obviously with the race divided tribes, even though they were later merged. And I remember also reading about how they were like, we cannot, like, it'll look really bad if the white tribe wins.

54:26So, like, just hope that the white tribe or white contestant doesn't win. And thankfully, they didn't. Yule won. And this was controversial because at the time, the hidden immunity idol was something that you could use after the votes were read, which gave him basically, it was impossible to get Yule out. Like, he was going to win regardless. Other people argue that Ozzy at the final two should win instead. The hidden immunity rules now are trickier. You have to present the immunity idol before the votes are read. So you have to kind of predict what's going to happen or have insight into what's going to happen.

55:00It's trickier because if you can present the hidden immunity idol at any time, then it just makes it way too advantageous, aka Tony on Survivor Kageyama. I know that sounds like gibberish to you, Christy, but Survivor viewers, you'll know what I'm talking about. Yeah. So let's talk about one of the more iconic, speaking of Parvati, one of the more iconic moments of Survivor, which is the Black Widow Brigade. Also speaking of Sari from season one of Traders. And we're going to bring in Rachel, our social maven, who is a Survivor super fan to talk about this with me. Rachel, come on in. Come on stage.

55:37Hi. Hi, guys. Hi. I'm so excited to be here. I know. We're so excited to have you. Yeah, because I know that you are a Survivor super fan like me and you feel very passionately about the Black Widow Brigade. I do. This feels like the perfect opportunity for my podcast debut. The first season I watched was Micronesia. So what Pearl Islands is to you is what Micronesia is to me an amazing season also by the way it is so christy i recommend and so you can finally know who parvati is can you believe that she doesn't know who parvati is she has been my idol since i was eight years old okay you guys are really selling it i'll have to watch this season i like wanted to like do what she did like i was like i want to be a boxer when i was eight like i genuinely practiced boxing because i was that obsessed how cute but yeah this was my favorite season.

56:31It's the one that I started with actually. So I was eight years old when it was airing and I had like just started watching Survivor, went back, watched all the past seasons. And I think I made it to like 30, like I was keeping up with it. And then I fell off, but I'm rejoining for 50, even though I like don't love the cast, but I feel like I just don't know a lot of them. Yeah. Anywho, season 16 Micronesia as some background obviously was fans versus favorites. So it was a tribe of all of the favorites of like the iconic people from past seasons. So It's like Parvati Shallow, Ozzy, James from China with Amanda and like Jonathan Penner.

57:07Sari. Sari, yeah, iconic. And so the Black Blue. Wait, can I just say really fast? Sorry. Fun fact about the season. This is like very niche and probably no one cares except me. One of the fans on the show was Mikey Bortone. He was married to Aurora Culpo, who is Olivia Culpo's sister. And that's the father of Aurora Culpo's two children. I know she's pregnant right now with a third with her new husband. But yeah, just a fun fact there. Yeah, I read that somewhere. But I also like kind of forgot about that. So that's cool to like, it's not important. He gets voted out very quickly. Right. And yeah, he was on the fans.

57:44Yeah, yeah. So it was I mean, it was just a really cool like it was the first time they were doing something like this. So to like have all the super fans and you know, kind of like they know like the favorites like strategies. So like they kind of have the upper hand there. But the favorites have played before and they're so beloved. So it's like who actually has the upper hand. but um they formed the black widow brigade as you mentioned and it's kind of like what they tried to do in season nine I feel like and then Chris ends up winning and turning all the girls against each other but this was the first time it was like genuinely successful so the black widow brigade consisted of three of the favorites which is Parvati Amanda Kimmel Sari Fields and then two of the favorites Natalie Bolton and Alexis Jones wait do you consider Alexis as part of I like don't consider her as part of the Black Widow Brigade.

58:29Not really. So like I was going back and watching a lot of things and I'm like, when did they coin it as, I think Parvati was the one that like coined it as the Black Widow Brigade. It might've been when Alexis was off, but I like kind of consider Ozzy like the first victim in a way. Like, and Alexis was there for that. She was there for Jason. You're right. I feel like it's when they started like really targeting the men, even though like, I feel like before that, like Eliza, I feel like could even be considered, but it was more so just like the majority alliance like they just like yeah so they were like just get her out yeah but yeah I don't know I feel like it's like up for debate but like I said I think the first victim was Ozzy which to my memory I don't think Amanda was like totally down for since they like were kind of had like an on-screen romance relationship that like maybe went like farther off screen I'm not totally sure I feel like yeah kind of up for debate and side note about Ozzy I feel like he has the Colby Donaldson like trajectory as well like he was yes beloved I challenge beast my dog is named after him like in 2012 like when we got Ozzy like we named him Ozzy and now he is so funny not well liked at all I feel like there's like personal controversies that I don't know much about so I can't speak on this yeah he's he's one of those where his I feel like if you have one good season of Survivor, you should just never come back because every time a fan favorite comes back, their popularity just goes down and they always make themselves look worse.

59:56Yes. Like Colby, JT. Yeah. Yeah. JT. Yeah. Poor JT. Yeah. Like Ozzy voted out with like an idol in pocket. Like it's just dumb. It's just dumb. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Christy, that's a big deal because when you have a hidden immunity idol, you're like, okay, I'm set, but you don't use it. If you feel safe. You only use it if you don't feel safe, obviously. And the Black Widow Brigade was like, yeah, you're safe, Ozzy. They basically backstabbed him. He thought he was in an alliance with them. Yes. But really, it was the girls. So going out with a hidden immunity idol in your pocket is the ultimate embarrassment.

1:00:33Yeah. James with two in season two on China. Yeah. That's just really sad. But yes, I consider him the first victim. And then Jason Siska from the fans, team when him and Parvati are in that challenge where they're like holding their hand up and there's like a paint bucket or something. And it's one of the like endurance challenges. And she's like, just like, let me win. Like, and we won't vote you off. So like dumb, obviously, but he does it. And then he's gone. See you later. So both of those examples, I think are what make the most infamous example, the most infamous moment of the Black Widow Brigade.

1:01:08so humiliating and shocking and insane because like Eric, um, Riken back, Riken, but I don't know how to pronounce it, but Eric, who is this young, small town, super fan, like kind of goofy. Um, he was in the final five with four members of the black widow brigade. Alexis was voted off the episode before because Eric had won individual immunity. So they had to vote out one of the girls and then it's the five of them left. Eric wins again. So he's safe from the vote. He's gonna make it to the final four and if he keeps winning like he could win the whole game I don't know that he was a shoe-in but you know he can make it to the end at the very least um the girls I feel like this is such a infamous scene they're like sitting at the camp and um someone's like well Natalie like what if you convince him to give you his individual immunity which like every once in a while happens but that's pretty rare because why would you give up especially when you're there with four girls that you just watched vote out all of the men.

1:02:05So their plan was like, Natalie, just like go up to Eric and be like, we want to vote Amanda. Like you and I want to vote Amanda out. Sari will only vote Amanda out if you give me your immunity because she needs to trust you, which like doesn't really make a ton of sense. Like I, I mean, it was their only option of like an excuse, I guess, but like that isn't super believable. But basically what they do is gaslight, gatekeep girl boss you know all of the things and their plan is at the final tribal parvati and amanda are gonna like come at his throat um they're basically saying like none of these women respect you all you've done is lie like he you know he's backstabbed a few people here and there but he wasn't like hated that much um and then you know uh sari and natalie kind of keep quiet and like you see this whole thing go down the jury's watching it at the tribal council and eric gives up his individual immunity to Natalie and everyone cracks up like the jury everyone's laughing yeah so he basically they they're the black widow brigade because they would I don't want to say seduce men but they would like flirt with men and convince them that they were safe like Parvati did to uh Jason and then they did it again to Eric they were like yeah you're safe just like give us your uh immunity necklace because you don't need it anyway and like you we need to know that you trust us and that we can trust you they literally gaslit him and like it was obviously humiliating but like so funny and an iconic survivor moment and again a star was born Parvati and Sari I mean Sari was already Parvati was not really a star after Cook Island Sari was a star after Panama um but literally a star was born yeah no it was like watching it in real time and I was someone like from day one loved Parvati and like really like loved all of the girls of that group so like watching this go down was I mean I was eight years old but I was like write this down write this down like this is so iconic like you're gonna need to remember to do this um yeah but it was it was so so good and then all of the girls even like they start laughing I'm sure Eric knew in that moment like oh well they're like I'll see myself out um they all vote him out obviously and then as it goes Natalie's voted out next Amanda wins the individual immunity at the final three which basically you just choose someone to come with you to the final two if it's a final two tribal council instead of a final three so she brings Parvati I'm assuming she thought she had it in the bag against Parvati I mean like watching it like I didn't want that to be the case because I was a Parvati stan but Seri is so beloved like yeah she's like I feel like someone that everyone's like she really like deserves to win like she I really want everyone yeah she really is um so she brings Parvati but Parvi ends up winning against Amanda I think Amanda just plays like kind of a safe game because like the same thing happened to her in China where she's like middle of the road um but people speculate and they seem like really chummy at the reunion but like in Heroes vs Villains like a few seasons later like they're not really close they're not really working together and like they're never really I could be wrong but I don't think they've ever really been seen together again and they were like close friends in Micronesia so there's like some speculation that Amanda was like a little jealous and I mean like she was back-to-back seasons 15 and 16 final two doesn't win so I don't blame her um yeah she was Christy she was uh on season 15 and was runner-up and then went right onto season 16 as a returnee and then was runner-up in that season it was kind of like Nick Vile on The Bachelor um but this was also at the final travel council when Ozzy says Amanda I'm in love with you and everyone was like what are you talking about like I thought you guys were just like cuddling at night because it's cold but yeah they that was wild or when Natalie um I wish I would have watched it she says something really like odd to Parvati at final travel council like it was something like that was like a little bit oh she yeah she said like some sort of like sexual comment it was such a weird it was just a weird crazy season but like an iconic season um so yeah that's the tea on Micronesia yeah Yeah, best season ever.

1:06:09Amazing. Yeah, best season ever, Christy. You need to watch. But thank you so much, Rachel, the super fan, for walking us through the Black Widow Brigade saga. Again, an iconic season, iconic moment. A lot of stars were born that day. Yes, truly. Thank you guys for having me. So honest. Thank you. You're the best. So that is Micronesia. And I also want to, I know I'm kind of like skipping around to different seasons, but these are just like the notable moments that have happened. And something that I think is really interesting is why did the car rewards go away? So early on in Survivor, reward challenges would always involve cars later on in the season.

1:06:48And it was like a big deal. Like you're going to get, it was obviously sponsored. It's like, you're going to get a Chevy Malibu. And then they stopped doing them. One of the reasons is because of the taxes, I believe, that the contestants would have to pay an insane amount of taxes. And it wasn't really a reward. It was kind of like a trap, honestly. Snarkbait is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more.

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1:11:01If you're expecting or dressing little ones, check out Little Sleepies. You can visit littlesleepies.com and use promo code GOODNIGHT for 10 % off your first order. And another reason, I believe, is season 14, which is Fiji, which is when Dreams, who was a young Black contestant who talked openly about kind of his bleak financial situation and needing the prize money, And then also Yao Man, who was an elderly Asian man and just a fan favorite. And he basically was, Yao Man won the car at the reward challenge, but told Dreams he would give him the car if Dreams gave him immunity, if he won it at the next immunity challenge.

1:11:46And then what do you know, Dreams, you know, he goes, yeah, sounds like a deal. Dreams ends up winning immunity, but he backs out of the deal. So he keeps the car and immunity. And Dreams got backlash for this at the time when in reality, Yao Man was in the wrong for making this deal, in my opinion, because you're kind of like taking advantage of someone who is desperate. And also Dreams ended up getting the car repossessed because he didn't pay taxes on it. So there goes the car rewards if you're wondering what happened with those. And that's always like a very controversial moment that a lot of people talk about.

1:12:19So let's talk about Colton from Survivor One World season 24, 2012. The worst person to maybe ever be on Survivor. And P.S. this was the same season that Chelsea from Southern Charm was on. I had no idea. That's amazing. I love Chelsea. Yeah, she's the best. And she's great on the show too. It's like she just is who she is. I love her. So Colton was the sassy, openly gay college student from Alabama. and he made so many racist and classist remarks he was so vicious and so mean he targeted a black cast member bill and called him quote-unquote ghetto trash and suggested he should quote-unquote kill himself during a tribal council and bill was voted out everyone took colton's side uh he also him and alicia his fellow cast member bullied christina cha who was an asian american and And they made fun of her eyes.

1:13:16They completely bullied her. And it wasn't even microaggressions. They were viciously racist. And yeah, they were fucking evil to her. And they ended up inviting Colton back on Blood vs. Water another season. Like, you're going to invite this guy back? I can already tell by this picture how annoying he is. Like, I hate him. He was so mean. And people were outraged that he was invited back. It's like this is a person who is racist, who is abusive, just someone who should not be on the show. He ended up getting pulled from his season because of appendicitis. But they brought him back with his fiance, Caleb, for blood versus water, which is when they brought back returning contestants with a family member or loved one.

1:13:56And sadly, his fiance, Caleb, tragically passed away in a train accident shortly after the season aired. Oh, that's tragic. Yeah. Oh, my God. The treatment of Christina was awful. They basically like hazed her. They compared her to a cockroach. Oh my. They said that she was so desperate she would make an alliance with a hermit crab. Like they were so horrible. Fucking mean. It was awful to watch. It's like middle school bullying. Just a horrible. Yeah. Middle school. Horrible to watch. So one of the more, I guess, recent, even though it was now nine years ago, was season 34 Game Changers. This was a returnee season in 2017.

1:14:37And this was when Jeff Varner outed fellow contestant Zeke Smith as transgender. And I've seen a lot of people talk about this recently with the roundtable at the Traders with Michael Rappaport and Colton Underwood, where Michael Rappaport, you know, I know a lot of people are taking it different ways. But some people, you know, think that Michael Rappaport implied that Colton would be a good traitor because he kept a secret. He was in the closet and that makes him secretive. And that is basically what Jeff Farner implied with Zeke Smith. The only difference is, I guess, I mean, and a lot of people are interpreted the Michael Rappaport and Colton interaction differently.

1:15:15This was universally, everyone was on the same page that Jeff Farner was a piece of shit for this. And Zeke was not out as transgender at the time. And this was Zeke's second season. So he had, you know, people maybe were, you know, had had known or wondered or speculated or thought, but like, he was not out. It was not his decision to be out as transgender on the show. So Jeff Farner was trying to save himself from elimination and announced to the tribe and obviously millions of viewers that contestant Zeke was transgender and said, you know, why haven't you told anyone like implying that it makes him secretive or shady trying to cast you know doubt or suspicion onto zeke and make people think that he's not trustworthy because he was transgender what just because he's transgender means he's not an authentic human being and he's not being truthful that's such an exaggerative leap i know it's such a leap and basically argued that you know his gender identity was a deception and that by not telling everyone zeke was being unfull give me a break Everyone immediately condemned Varner on the spot and made him feel horrible.

1:16:21And Jeff Varner is also openly gay. So he, you could argue, is technically an LGBTQ plus ally and apologized. Since then, he has said some horrible things on the internet about trans people. So it does seem like he is anti-trans, but in the moment did seem to regret it and apologize. And Zeke, you could, it's horrible to watch. You can see that Zeke is extremely embarrassed and distraught and was not expecting it. You also know that like CBS probably wouldn't have aired the episode outing him to the public if Zeke didn't sign off on it, which I believe he did. And he eventually used this opportunity to be open about the trans experience and advocate for trans rights.

1:17:05and in the months leading up to the episode, CBS worked with GLAAD to make sure that, you know, it would be approached carefully and the situation would be handled well. Oh my God, it was just like such a horrible situation. That sounds really traumatizing and horrible. Yeah, and Zeke said, I think he hoped others would believe that trans people are dangerous and fraudulent. That reasoning is infinitely worse than him outing me because it's the same one used to discriminate against, attack, and murder trans people. What's great is that nobody bought it. It's important people see he lost that fight.

1:17:35The message should be clear that hate will always lose, which I thought was a perfect response. No one bought it. Like everyone, I remember Andrea on that season in particular was so distraught. And yeah, everyone stood up for him. Even Jeff immediately, Jeff Probst was like, what are you doing, Varner? And they all unanimously voted Varner out when that happened. Love to see it. Yeah, you love to see it. again Varner apologized publicly privately right after it happened basically but still the damage was done and since then like I said Varner has said really horrible transphobic things on the internet so so was he really yeah yeah was he really yeah so another recent ish scandal was season 39 I have not gotten to season 39 yet so just um every other season that I've talked about here I have watched this is one that I have not watched yet so just uh letting you guys know this This was in 2019.

1:18:29Contestant Dan Spilo was accused by multiple women on his tribe of unwanted touching and boundary crossing behavior. Contestant Kelly Kim complained that his touching, caressing and hair brushing. Hair brushing? Ugh. Made her uncomfortable. And she spoke to Dan about it on camera. Production gave him a warning. Other players kind of downplayed the situation. but later in the season Dan groped a production crew member off camera which made him immediately get ejected from the game a title card at the episodes and informed viewers of Dan's removal due to another incident of inappropriate touching and CBS got a lot of flack deservedly for not acting sooner when Kelly and the other contestants spoke up which they obviously should they should have immediately taken her seriously not just a warning like they should have been like yeah he can go he's inappropriately touching you yeah that's I mean I can't imagine someone like touching my hair unwontedly like that that just I don't like that gives me a chill on my spine absolutely not and think about how this was like 15 years after the Thailand season with Gandia and Ted like the fact that like it's still happening this was 2019 guys yeah and luckily they you know made the right move and eventually ejected Dan from the game which they did not do to Ted on Thailand so So I guess progress there.

1:19:48But again, it was way too delayed of a reaction. And another person had to be touched inappropriately for them to finally do something. Right. In 2020, a group of Black former players lobbied for CBS to up the diversity. And again, like Jeff Probst said when he did Cook Islands with the racially divided tribes, it's a criticism that Survivor has gotten for a while that there isn't enough diversity. Right. They won the agreement to have 50 % of the cast and 40 % of the crew come from diverse backgrounds, which is great. Great, yeah. And general criticism around Survivor regarding the lack of aftercare and support for the contestants.

1:20:28Let's talk about it. So Survivor is obviously a physically and mentally draining experiment. And like I said, they're put into a pressure cooker. Like you are hungry. You're sleep deprived. You are, you know, put in a psychologically just crazy experience where you're lying to people. You don't trust anyone. So a lot of the former contestants have criticized the show for kind of just a lack of aftercare and just throwing them back into the real world without any real support. And something that I think is really interesting about Survivor is that there really is like a psychological toll from feeling like you can't trust anyone for, you know, these 39, at 1.39 days.

1:21:13You're like, I don't know who's lying to me. You're, you know, you're paranoid. Yeah. Because the game truly, I know you haven't watched it, Christy, but like the game is about lying to people. Because you need to make people feel safe and make people feel caught off guard. Like you can't, it's hard to explain, I feel like, but you, I feel like you understand the gist. It's like, you need to have your cards close to your chest, right? Like you can't show all your cards. You need to make people feel safe, make people feel secure. And then you backstab them. That's just how the game works. That's how you win the game.

1:21:49You have to make big moves. You have to strategize. You have to take people out. And a lot of the time it's cutthroat because if someone knows that you are onto them and that you are going to vote them out, that gives them an opportunity to turn it around on you and get you out first. So essentially there's just so much lying and backstabbing and that's part of the game. You're rewarded for good deception. You're rewarded for it. Like even at final tribal council, like you are rewarded for making the big moves and for taking people out and for backstabbing people. And obviously it's, it's such a delicate balance because you need to win the jury votes while also you can't have everyone hate you, you know?

1:22:25So it's like, if you make a good move that people respect, great. If you make a big move that people are like, wow, well, you really fucked over your alliance and like you really fucked everyone over. Like you have to toe the line. It's actually really, really, really tricky. But more of the story is that there's a lot of lying and backstabbing. And then they're, like I said, dumped back into real life. They feel like they can't trust their family and friends. Like I just, I imagine like going on forever. Then I come home to Henry and I'm like, who have you been aligning with? Yeah. No, I mean like I can imagine the physical, not physical toll because you know for 39 days you're not being nourished appropriately you're not sleeping appropriate like enough hours physically you're exhausted mentally you're questioning everything you're rewarded to be the higher the deception the more rewarded you are you don't have true friendships it's an incredibly isolating experience probably the most isolating reality tv experience that one can be in and now I kind of understand through watching traders every time people are saying we got to get the gamers out the gamers out which makes sense like people in survivor are a huge threat in the traders because they've done this before and if they've won they're the best at it yes exactly the strategy element of it oh tony from gagayan who also won winners at war was i think one of the first banish uh on season three last season yep and he's a huge threat like they're like yeah we need to get these people out because they know what they're doing they know what it takes to backstab people to lie to deceive And yeah, it's like just such a crazy psychological, you know, mindfuck.

1:24:00And many have also reported like long-term physical health problems. Obviously, weight loss, malnourishment, but also hair loss, dental issues, like long-term issues from going on Survivor. And again, like you're just, you don't really know. And they always say this also when they go on the show. I feel like people that have watched it and then they finally get cast and they're like, it's so much harder than I ever would have thought. Like you are putting your body through it. You're not eating. And, you know, with like the show, I remember one season, I think it was all stars season eight. Rupert has this idea of building a shelter that is like dug in the sand.

1:24:38And then the first night it floods. Oh no. And they have no shelter and none of them sleep and it's a rainstorm and they have no, they're just out in a storm and you watch when the weather is horrible. and they're just stuck outside without shelter just in a rainstorm that's cold probably one of the worst situations you could be in yeah genuinely ethan zahn who won season three africa and went on all-stars said that that was the worst night of his life i was like that was literally the worst night of my life um so you know it's something that is physically demanding mentally traumatizing just you know speaking of tony from kagayan he said he was never able to gain the muscle back that he had before the show.

1:25:18Like his body was never the same. That said, it is voluntary and medical attention is there if needed. Like they always, you know, medical emergencies will happen. And Jeff Probst is always there to be like, hey, let's, you know, let's freaking get in the medics to check on this rash or this ankle injury or whatever it is. And then a lot of the times people will be pulled from the game because they're too injured to continue. And so it is voluntary. So you're kind of like, well, you know, they know what they're signing up for at this point. I think that Jeff Probst has also done a really good job of, I think that he knows how to handle contestants that seem to be losing it.

1:25:53Like Brandon Hance is one contestant who seemed to be having like a mental breakdown. And he was not the most mentally stable to begin with. And then he seems to be having a mental breakdown. And Jeff, it's a really like powerful moment, I think, where Jeff is like Brandon Kovna gives him a little shoulder massage. And, you know, lets him exit the game on his own terms. so while this is like a challenging game i think that jeff does a really good job i think they could do a better job with aftercare for the contestants but overall again people know what they're signing up for i guess yeah i think you don't know how intense it can be physically and mentally until you're really in the situation like you look at it on tv from the comfort of your own couch and your heated living room or whatever saying i could do this for sure um until you're in there and then you're having to be forced to be exposed to the elements without shelter freezing cold nothing to aid you to sleep or whatever like that's a completely different ball game i i could not do it like it takes a very specific person to be able to handle this type of reality show and you have to have incredibly tough skin and very like a huge resilience to you that i simply would not have physically yeah i always wonder like because when I watch Survivor I'm like this would be so fun like I think about how it would be fun and then I'd be like actually it would be my living hell but like it would be challenging it would be like a good experience I don't know I like convince myself that I would love going on Survivor but I know I would probably hate it yeah and I would be really bad at it I would be the first person voted out they'd be like she's so fucking annoying there's these yappers they don't stop talking yeah she doesn't shut up literally people have been voted out before because they're just like annoying and talk all the time I'm like that would be us that would be us that would literally be us um But that is Survivor.

1:27:36Christy, I really need you to watch Micronesia season 16 and also The Traitor season 2 so you can get to know Parvati. Totally. I need to start with Micronesia for sure because I think that'll be my gateway into the show just so I can get a glimpse. And now that I have a little bit of the TLDR. Yeah. I am incredibly excited for this new journey and thanks for taking us through this. This was very detailed. Yes. a really good episode. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. Oh, good. I'm glad. I know there's a lot, you guys. Let us know, Survivor fans, Survivor, you know, loving baby Starks, if there is anything that we may have missed because there is, you know, almost three decades now of material when it comes to Survivor.

1:28:23But I feel like these are the most important moments, scandals, you know. So hopefully we covered everything there is to cover. But let us know. I'm interested to hear what is your favorite Survivor moment, Survivor season, and convince Christy to join this journey with us. Oh, I'm convinced. I'm so glad. That makes me so happy. And also you'll see how Sari from the Black Widow Brigade won season one of The Traitors. Spoiler alert. So you also will, like, if you watch Micronesia and then you watch, like, I feel like to know all of the people on The Traitors, you have to watch Survivor. no agree because like half of the that cast is survivor or big brother no i agree so i think that's always such a blind spot for me i don't watch big brother so every time there's a big brother contestant i'm like who no i know say literally who who who like i literally don't know like i'm like what do you mean this person was on big brother like what even is big brother what do you i don't even know but apparently another game show and what do you mean he was her makeup artist like what do you mean what do you mean simon munchak britney marfey's makeup So yeah, let us know you guys.

1:29:35What do you think? Did we hit all of the marks? And I guess we will see you next time. Thank you everyone for listening. Follow us at snarkbeatpod on Instagram at sop underscore Ross is my handle at christy Noel underscore underscore is Christy. Don't forget we have bonus episodes every Wednesday over on Patreon. Remember you can buy it tour tickets in our show notes and yeah, leave us a five star rating and review if you enjoyed the episode and anything else and if you don't want to leave us a five-star review feel free to let us know the instructive criticism in our dms we're literally already always reading our dms so yes please let us know love you guys so much see you on the next one bye

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1:34:53Things like inflammation, blood sugar regulation, nutrient levels, sleep quality, vascular health, all influence how your brain performs today and over time. So if you're not measuring those systems, you're guessing. So stop guessing what's going on with your body and mind and start actually measuring. Start by understanding what's happening beneath the surface. Own your health for$365 a year. That's a dollar a day. Learn more and join Function using our link. Visit www.functionhealth.com slash snarkbait or use gift code snarkbait25 for a$25 credit toward your membership. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra.

1:35:30That's the OG. It kicked off this zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole line up now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian, Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the monster energy punch. So if you've been living in the white can, branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe. And every single one is zero sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.