Anania Loves Anime

16 Oct 2025 · 1 h 4 min · 29 chapters

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In short

The episode is a wide-ranging conversation about Chance (the guest) navigating queer identity and relationships, moving from the Midwest to major cities, building a career in performance, and finding catharsis in music and anime. They also discuss their current work in theater and their plans for stand-up.

Guest backgrounds

Chance is a queer performer and interviewer who grew up in Davenport, Iowa. They studied performance at Emerson College (Boston) and earned a minor in peace and social justice. After college they worked in summerstock theater (including Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Wedding Singer), then lived in Chicago for about a year (Logan Square/Lakeview), where they started performing drag. They later moved to New York City (Flatbush) and are currently in an off-Broadway production.

Key claims

Chance says they didn’t come out until the pandemic, describes “pronoun pipeline” experiences, and argues that queer stories with community and happy endings are rare but important. They also claim that casting often typecasts gay characters (e.g., “thin white twink” for gay roles) and that therapy helped mainly by prompting self-care actions they already knew to do.

Notable examples

Their off-Broadway show Saturday Church (a 2017-movie adaptation) centers a gay Black kid who finds community at a queer church space; they also mention wrapping a role in Devil Wears Prada and filming multiple projects this year. They connect Paramore’s catharsis to queer and anime experiences, and they name anime they like (Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Erased, Death Parade). They discuss phobias (snakes, tripophobia, bridges/heights) and favorite albums (Paramore’s Brand New Eyes and Beyoncé’s Cowboy Carter).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Midwest Royalty and Wikipedia

0:05 to 1:06

Discussion about personal life, Wikipedia, and humor surrounding identity.

“When you came on my show, one of the comments were like, Midwest princes.”

Personal Updates and New Beginnings

1:06 to 2:29

The guests share updates about their lives, including moving and spirituality.

“You have been, I'm a little worried about my friend.”

Dating and Relationships

2:29 to 4:19

Exploration of dating, relationships, and the challenges that come with them.

“So I don't know how much fun you would have with what I got going on.”

Nostalgia and Facebook Memories

4:19 to 6:08

Recollections of social media use and its significance during high school.

“I remember when people on Facebook took that very seriously.”

Journey from Iowa to New York

6:08 to 9:48

The guest shares their journey from Davenport, Iowa to New York City.

“I recently did buy a drill for my new apartment.”

Education and Activism

9:48 to 14:00

Discussion about education, social justice, and how they connect to personal experiences.

“So I think during the 2020 riots with Black Lives Matter really woke me up.”

From Chicago to New York: A Journey

14:01 to 16:40

Explore the transition from small-town life to the vibrant cities of Chicago and New York.

“It's like watching someone get good at stand-up.”

The Importance of Community in 'Saturday Church'

16:40 to 21:00

Learn about the themes of community and identity in the off-Broadway show 'Saturday Church'.

“It's an adaptation from a movie from 2017.”

Experiences in Film and Television

21:00 to 22:40

Hear about the guest's experiences working on film sets and upcoming projects.

“I guess this year I filmed three, about to film a fourth.”

Phobias and Fears: A Lighthearted Discussion

22:40 to 26:30

Engage in a humorous conversation about personal fears and phobias.

“That's where all the Midwestern gay guys go to Vegas.”
Show all 29 chapters

Music Choices: The Soundtrack of Our Lives

26:30 to 28:00

Discover the importance of music by discussing album choices that shape identity.

“And if you look under your chair, you'll find six snakes!”

Music Preferences: B-Day vs. Cowboy Carter

28:00 to 29:15

The hosts discuss their favorite albums and their connection to personal experiences.

“Wow and I'm torn between B-Day and Cowboy Carter wait, rest of my life B-Day, Cowboy I'm gonna say Cowboy Carter Really?”

The Paramore Phenomenon

29:15 to 31:09

Exploration of Paramore's appeal, especially among Black listeners.

“So I remember listening to the Paramore stuff, and I was like, this is loud.”

Anime and Its Cultural Impact

31:09 to 31:35

A discussion on the relationships between Black culture and anime.

“Yeah But those aren't I feel like when I think of anime I feel like that's not what I think of as anime Why do I think that?”

Understanding Anime

31:35 to 32:16

Clarifying what anime is and discussing popular series.

“Number 6 Naruto Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood I would say Given, Erased, Death Parade.”

Musicals and Personal Taste

32:16 to 34:16

Hosts share their favorite musicals and personal preferences in theater.

“I mean, if you ever have a Google Doc of anime recommendations.”

Theater Experience and Comfort

34:16 to 35:45

Discussion on the challenges of theater seating and personal comfort.

“I saw All Chances shows in college, and they were, you know.”

Navigating Life in Your 20s

35:45 to 36:59

Reflections on the experience of being in your 20s and societal expectations.

“So you think I've been dead for four years?”

Therapy and Self-Reflection

36:59 to 38:38

Insights on therapy, personal growth, and the importance of self-care.

“When I first started doing therapy, I think maybe two or three years ago, every session I would be crying.”

Starting Stand-Up Comedy

38:38 to 41:15

Advice and insights on starting a career in stand-up comedy.

“I've been thinking about getting back to therapy, but mostly because I really relate to the thing about like, well, a therapist has never told me something I don't know, frankly, like that's just reality.”

Navigating Stand-Up Comedy Inspirations

42:00 to 43:30

Learn about the creative process behind stand-up comedy and personal inspirations.

“And the thing is, I kind of, all of my jokes are already posted online.”

Influential Comedians and Their Impact

43:30 to 45:54

Explore the impact of various comedians on the art of stand-up and personal style.

“obviously Bob I love Bob the Drag Queen she's like one of my biggest inspirations Bob is so fucking funny and smart It's insane.”

Cultural References and Comedy

45:54 to 47:50

Discover how cultural references shape comedy and personal humor styles.

“It stars Monique, Countess Vaughn, Mari Morrow, I have heard of this.”

The Role of Technology in Communication

47:50 to 55:06

Discuss the impact of smartphones on communication and personal connections.

“Well, do you know, I randomly will know a bunch of stuff about the, I don't know if you guys ever got into this, but the I love the 90s, I love the OOs.”

Gender Perspectives on Pregnancy

55:06 to 56:00

Engage in a thought experiment about the implications of men getting pregnant.

“I wonder, maybe we'll talk about this off the camera too, but it feels like I'm in this exact same experience where it feels like a lot of people need a lot of things from me all of a sudden and I hate it.”

Introduction to Anania's Identity

56:00 to 56:22

Explore Anania's identity and the reactions it prompts.

“You know a lot of people just had an aneurysm.”

True or False Game Segment

56:22 to 58:40

Anania participates in a true or false game with interesting statements.

“You're going to tell me as quickly as you can.”

Discussion on Religion and Beliefs

58:40 to 59:24

A conversation about the ownership of the Pope's body and questioning religious beliefs.

“Is it because his organs are so much better than mine?”

Outro and Anania's Projects

59:24 to 1:00:03

Anania shares where to find her work and upcoming performances.

“Tell the people where they can find you, what they should be watching.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:01This is a HeadGum Podcast. When you came on my show, one of the comments were like, Midwest princes. And I was like, oh, not that. Oh, boom. And I literally, like 30 seconds later, I went to go see it again and it was deleted. I was like, what? Yes. New comment, Midwest royalty.

0:26Anania. What I wanted to tell you was, before we actually get into it, I was reading your Wikipedia, because every time I go on a podcast, I feel under research. Yeah. I was reading your Wikipedia, and I go to personal life. It's three sentences. The first one is, he is gay. And period, by the way. I was like, oh, yeah. That's pretty important. I see that. I see that for him. Yes. Oh, my God. That is so funny. What is the first sentence of yours? Do you know? I don't know. I don't even know if I have a Wikipedia. No? No? Not on there? Damn. Someone needs to put you on there. Yeah, wow. Chance that you don't.

1:02It's just like that. That's all right. I'll be there. Dude, I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. You have been, I'm a little worried about my friend. Uh-oh. Because you're busy. I am. You've been really busy lately. Yeah. And it's been, I feel like it's a lot. How are you doing? Right. First of all. Someone yesterday, when I was literally filming yesterday, someone was like, how are you doing spiritually? and I was like, oh, I've been spiritually exhausted for three months now. Oh, I'm here. Yeah, but you know, I'm paying my rent. Yeah. New York. Got a new apartment.

1:34I do. I just moved into this new apartment about, it's either, what day is it? What day is it? I think it might be two months now. Yeah. Is it like two months? What's the address and unit number? Oh, sure. So, what is this? This is 20, anyway. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so excited for your new apartment. I'm so excited that gaydar is going so well. Thank you, and thank you for doing my show. I was thrilled to be on it. We're so versatile. We're going show for show. Me and you, let's flip-flop. Honestly, Caleb, I would like to see it. Yeah? Yeah, I don't know if we would have good sex, though.

2:06Me and you? Yeah. What makes you say that? Because it obviously was hurtful to hear. I don't know if you're, I don't know if I'm ready. Maybe that's, it's... You don't know if you're ready for our sex? Yeah, like, I don't know if I'm able to receive or give you what you might need. You might not be. Yeah. That's okay. Based on you saying that. It's fine. Well, I'm also going off of your personal life on Wikipedia. Yeah. And you are gay. I'm gay, yeah. So I don't know how much fun you would have with what I got going on. Yeah. I'm Barbie smooth down there. Yeah. Nothing going on. Just straight up non-binary vibes.

2:37Yes. You get it. Okay. Okay. Get it. I get it. I'm around for it. Are you? You know I've gotten down with many things. That seems like a threat. No. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Don't be so sure. Are we going to have sex on? Okay. No, no, no. Non-camera. Not on this camera. I've been you name a gender I've been in there what are you what are you after? can we go back just one second? go ahead name a gender name a gender name a gender that's crazy I'm in there is that your gender inclusivity? is that how it happens? I have look when the time is right and when it's fun I've been a little bit of everywhere wow now did I have a lot of fun with When I was in high school, I was exploring straight.

3:26Not for me. This is also on the Wikipedia. Straight was not for me. Yeah. Straight was not for me. But I gave it a good faith effort, and I feel that so many people don't. Absolutely. You know? I think that's really beautiful. I think the problem with America is a lot of people aren't inclusive with their hearts, but maybe they're inclusive with their penis. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm both. I'm both. I'm community heart.

3:50I'm community heart. This heart's been passed around. What are you looking for? Are you single? I'm not. I have a boyfriend. We've been dating for like a year and a half now. How's it going? It's going good, I think. Yeah? I think so. I mean, this is like my really serious adult relationship, my first one. So I'm really excited about it. But it is kind of crazy to like, you kind of have to let go of a lot of baggage to be in a long-term relationship. Yeah. So it's always like a, I'm always working on something. You know what I mean? But it's fun and I love him a lot. I remember when people on Facebook took that very seriously.

4:24Oh my God. You know, like the single, it's complicated, engaged or married thing. That was fun. Or poking. You remember when poking meant something? Girl, do I remember poking? Poking. I was poking. I was poking bitches down. I was poking. I was poking bitches down. If you got a poke for me, it meant something. What did it mean? I wouldn't say. It depended. It depended. Like I would put, that's so crazy is I remember in like, I had me and one other little closeted gay boy in high school that we were both closeted gay boys out to each other. Oh, that's sweet. It was sweet. Community. Sisterhood.

4:51Community. And of course it started with hooking up. Oh, and okay. But then we'd be like, we'd be like, Oh my God, one of the straight guys from school poked us on Facebook. Like, what does it mean? Like, Oh, does that mean he's gay? Like, and it's so nebulous. You never know. The gymnastics you would do in high school to try to find out if another boy was gay. Right. oh good for you i wish i came out a little earlier but i kind of i'm kind of enjoying this not late in life but i definitely had my time to to sit on it yeah yeah what you grew up in davenport iowa i did yeah yeah yeah cities yes come on we talked about this a little bit yeah yes yes yes yes how was it um first of all i'm happy i'm not there anymore i'll say that much but i do the other day i got a little homesick and i don't know what it was Oh, literally yesterday we were filming and I saw two tractors go by and I was like, oh.

5:43I could have had it all. You could have had it all. I could have been working mid-level John Deere and sucking dick in a bathroom. You know what I mean? Yeah, you could have had everything. Just to scratch the itch. You in a pair of overalls up on a tractor? Kind of kind. Kind of kind. I think that's my next birthday shoot. It's eating and it's giving and I would love to see it. Or I could do like the Country Girls make do. Just have my ass out in a mini dress. Yes. With a dripping piece of corn in the foreground. Just holding a drill on something it shouldn't be on. Yes. Yeah. I recently did buy a drill for my new apartment.

6:11Pink? So I can be butch. Did you get the pink set? No. I got like a, oh God. Like a real like. I don't even know. Yeah. The lesbian said to get it, so I got it. That's what it is. Right. You have to take the lesbian's lead on that stuff. Right. Yes. What's making you happy lately? What's making you happy in life? Buy my new apartment. there's a Wendy's, there's a Popeye's there's a Dunkin' Donuts, there's a Sonic and a grocery store literally as soon as I walk out the door across the street I could weep I haven't eaten anything but fried food in two months people also I want people to really understand the way that you're going right now you've got Gaydar, you have all your other stuff you're in this show right now that we're going to talk about you have so much going on that like genuinely being able to grab a fucking chicken sandwich on the way out the door is like necessary.

7:11It actually has been saving my life. It really does. The juxtaposition of what's in my fridge versus what's in my closet is crazy. Like I'm pulling, like I have like all these like outfits and stuff just in case I got to go or I have to do like a one-off shoot or something like that. But in my refrigerator, there's three eggs, Polynesian sauce from Chick-fil-A. You know what I mean? There's nothing in there that could actually sustain me. But I do look cunt. You do. Looks good all the time. Oh, don't worry about that. No, no, no. That's okay. There's urine on the floor. Chance, can we clean up the urine?

7:47I'm sorry. Don't be. We like that it adds character to the show. Also, I was just noticing while you were talking how well the mic matches your boots and bow and outfit. You have a sixth sense for these things. Thanks. Like a true diva does. I can't wait until I'm styled instead of styling myself, though. Yeah. I'm over it. Oh, my God. Chance trying to crawl under the cameras. They're going to see this, Chance. It's... My love, just... My love.

8:18Get the tendrils. Thank you. Get the offshoots. Get the tributaries. Yep. Great job, Chance. We appreciate you. Ooh. Ooh, help him, Lord. Ooh. He can't. I live. We're not cutting any of that. We're leaving all of that in. You at one point just kind of quietly, my love. I wasn't expecting all that, but work. Okay, wait. I want to know this. Okay. Davenport, Iowa. Now you live in New York City. I do. Tell me about the in-between. I will. It's just so interesting because you're a great interviewer, and I like to think I'm a good interviewer. You're a great interviewer. Thank you. It's hard to like Not want to interview you back I know you want to turn it back on me I do this as well Fuck Davenport New York In between So after Davenport Well For college I went to Emerson College in Boston I was there for four years Then I did a gig in North Carolina For a couple months Moved back home Almost myself And then Real I was joking Joking Okay okay Whoa Whoa And then moved to Chicago I was a lesbian in Chicago Yeah And then I moved to New York.

9:27I love that. Yeah. When you were at Emerson, I know you studied performance, but then you also got a minor in peace and - Yes, peace and social justice. Peace and social justice. I don't have a fucking Wikipedia and you found that out? Baby, you think we're playing around over here? I live. I live for that. We take this very seriously. Work. What does, how did you decide on that? And also, what does that look like? I've never heard of that. Yeah. Honestly, I was always pretty woke, but you have to remember, I'm from Iowa. Yes. So I think during the 2020 riots with Black Lives Matter really woke me up.

9:57I was like, okay, I could be doing something about this. And this is also when I started making content. And when I first started making content, it was just political. Like I was just weighing in on like things like people should care about and sharing mutual aid funds and all that kind of stuff. So I decided to just go in that direction. my peace and social justice minor really helps with like um knowing what to do in terms of protest advocacy and um research with like any kind of political um thing i guess like i got the minor because i never wanted to be in a position where i didn't know what to do and i could help other people figure out what to do as well you know so that's basically what i wanted out of it yeah and it was too hard for me to do a double major so i just stuck with the minor Yeah.

10:43So the gig in North Carolina, what was that? I was doing Hunchback of Notre Dame and Wedding Singer. Oh, my God. Fun. Like Summerstock or something? Yeah. What was the – Yeah, Summerstock. That's so fun. It was so much fun. And then we did Hunchback with an actual deaf actor, and he had like a shadow that was singing the songs while he was signing. Oh, wow. So kind. That's one of my favorite shows I've ever been in. That fucking rocks. Yeah. So did that and then went back home for a little bit. and then what was the plan to go home and just like hold yourself over until you could go to New York?

11:13Yeah, well I thought I thought I was going to move to New York one year sooner than I did.

11:26I thought I was going to move to New York one year sooner than I did. I just didn't have enough money. Yeah. Like it is impossible to move here unless you have X amount in your savings account. I just didn't. I was like, what do you mean I need to pay over$1 ,000 for one room every month? I just wasn't there. And the months keep coming. It never stops. More than one month. I was like, oh God, no. It's the first of the month every week somehow. Right. I literally went back home for maybe, this is maybe two months. Yeah. Couldn't do it anymore. And I was like, I know I could afford Chicago. No shade.

12:05and I moved to Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, you moved to Chicago after school too. After college, yeah. Nice. Chicago was where Chance and I both moved after college to do improv and stuff. Where'd you live? I lived in Logan Square. Nice. I loved Logan Square. I was in Lakeview. Oh, gay. Gay. And a lot of the theaters were close to there so it was like easy. Oh sure. Like the improv theaters were over there and stuff. I always wish I was closer to Boys Town because every time I had a drag gig it was like a 30 minute drive. Exactly correct. Yeah. Yeah, but Logan's way cooler. I loved Logan Square.

12:35I miss it all the time. I miss Chicago all the time. The Chicago queer scene is so fun. It's so, and it's just like, I feel like they get it in a way that New York definitely has gotten. It's just like not as,

12:51the word coming to my mind is violent. It's like not as, I don't know, there's like not as much contention with other queer people in Chicago. It's just like we're rooting for each other more. Yeah. I figure. And I'm so happy. I started actually performing in drag in Chicago. Wow. Yeah. I felt so, like, liberated to do so. It was crazy. Do you remember your first ever drag show? Yeah. It was Roscoe's. They have an open stage night every Tuesday. Yeah. And that's when I did. I did Warning by Fantasia for no reason. Let's go. I don't know why. Let's go. I always thought my first drag song would be Only Girl in the World by Rihanna.

13:32Yes, of course. But then I was like, well, what if I didn't do that? For whatever the fuck reason was. Yeah. And I don't know. It was probably the worst I've ever done in drag. But honestly, some of the most fun. So you just have to start. Yeah. I've had the pleasure, because of being in Chicago, of watching so many drag queens get good at it. Your friend starts, and the wig is horrible, and the fit is bad, and the song is not. But then they learn their makeup and their style, and I've gotten to watch so many queens figure out their thing. Yes. It's like watching someone get good at stand-up. It's so beautiful.

14:03Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so fun. So you're in Chicago. And how long were you in Chicago? I was in Chicago just for a year. Yeah. And then what took you to New York? I finally saved up enough money. This is when I was doing pretty well on social media, too. So I was making enough money to move to New York. And then I moved in with my best friend, Cedric. We went to school together. We went to college together. Yeah. And I moved to Flatbush. Of course. As we all do. As we all do. What, um, you and I are from very similar places. Yes. Small town Iowa, small town Missouri. I moved to Chicago.

14:37You moved originally to Boston. Right. What was, like, the, oh, go ahead, baby. When you came on my show, one of the comments were, like, Midwest princes. And I was, like, oh, not that. Oh, boom. And I literally, like, 30 seconds later, I went to go see it again, and it was deleted. I was, like, what? Yes. New comment. Midwest royalty. Yes. I was like, I live, I live. Oh, that's so funny. It was everything. What was the biggest, like, how was that transition for you, moving from small town Iowa to Boston? There was a culture shock for sure. And I was still straight at the time. I was still a straight man at the time.

15:15Thank you for your service. No, thank you. I know you get it too. Yeah. It was just a lot. Like, I was constantly, like, surrounded by queer people in a way that I have never in my life before. Like, I think there was some kind of pull at my school and more than 50 % of, I don't know what the percentage is, but we were gay. Everybody was gay. Everybody was gay. And I was like, this is crazy. I didn't even know this. And I just picked the school. You're like, this is so crazy because I'm straight. How did I end up here? I was like, no. This can't be right. But I guess if I have to. And I think of home.

15:57Come on. Yeah. So I was like, this isn't going to last long. And I literally started hooking up with guys maybe the next year, like the beginning of sophomore year. I was still in the closet. I didn't come out until the pandemic. Of course. Yeah. That was how it was supposed to be. And then it was the pronoun pipeline from there. I know. The pronouns start coming and they don't stop coming. And they don't stop coming. One thing about the pronouns. Once they come, they don't stop coming. I've seen it. I've seen it a million times. Yeah, you've been in them. I've seen the pronouns. I've been in there.

16:28I've been up close for the pronoun journey.

16:33That's crazy. That's crazy. Okay. So then, okay, you moved to New York. What is the show you're in right now? Tell us about the show. Oh, I'm in an off-Broadway production called Saturday Church. Yeah. It's an adaptation from a movie from 2017. Yeah. You're singing in this show. Oh, we're singing down in the show. Yeah. I'm having the time of my life. It's awesome. Why should people come and see it? What's the draw? What's the thing? And bear with me. Stay with me. Gay kid, gay black kid's like, ooh, I sing pretty. Let me sing in the choir. The aunt's like, no, you're gay and you're in church.

17:07You can't be gay in church. He's like, but I want to. And the mom's like too busy because the gay kid's dad just died. Oh, my God. I'm bastardizing this real bad. The gay kid's dad just died. And the mom's like, oh, I'm going to cope with working all the time. So then the gay kid's like, what? I have no community. so then he goes to a place called Saturday Church gay kids trans people going with trans people on the second go round bringing that up a little bit and they're like hey come you can be gay here and then he gets in a fight with his boyfriend the aunt finds out he has a boyfriend the pastor's like don't be gay he runs away he comes back and then there's a ball they they need to the social media for your show needs to clip just that minute gay kid doesn't want churches can't be gay at church but sings at the other place just clipping that down and putting it out honestly I think that's pretty good I think I got all the I didn't spoil I guess I did I got all the good stuff I think people should just come see it because it's like, it's actually really important for where we are politically right now in our country.

18:33I, I think it shows the queer black experience in a way that hasn't been done before. Like these things are like the things he's are, he's going through are very real. Like they're not like absorbently traumatic. You know what I mean? Like there is like some things he goes through that are traumatic, but at the end of the day, it's like through his community and through like dealing with grief and acceptance and love and all that stuff, he figures out who he is and who he can be and his family supports him at the end of it. It's a very, it's a, it's a feel good, which I really, really like. Yeah.

19:12Happy ending. Happy ending. Yeah. We don't get those very often. Nope. Yeah. Nope. Nope. It's nice to see them on stage and screen. It's rare. I want to ask you so many questions. You can ask me a question. Do the people know you're in Devil Wears Prada? Oh, yeah. This is out. Okay. How's it going? It's great. I'm finished. Oh, my God. Are you really? I wrapped, yeah. Wow. I wrapped. How long was your shooting schedule? I was maybe on it for, I think I was booked for 23 days, and I ended up working for, I don't know, 16 or 17. Okay. Scheduling-wise, it worked out that way. Nice. Yeah, it was great.

19:52It was so much fun. That's amazing. It's funny. By the time this comes out, I will have already done it, but I'm doing Seth Meyers this week. Okay. And I'm sure they'll want to talk about that. And I'm like wondering what I'll say because it was just so lovely. Sure. There's really nothing that interesting in being like, oh, it was a dream come true. Everything I expected. Everyone was the nicest I've ever worked with. Was there a rosebud thorn of it? I mean, the whole thing was just genuinely lovely. There really wasn't a downside. It was like we were shooting on a soundstage. That's awesome.

20:21So weather wasn't an issue. We didn't like, you know, when you're on location, you have your trailer on the fucking side of the road or whatever. We're in like a gorgeous soundstage, like studio building with like green rooms. Here, right? Here in New York. Nice. And yeah, it was just like a beautiful, fun experience. That's amazing. Good for you. Yeah, really fun. I'm so excited to see it. Yeah, I can't wait for it to come out. I'm very excited. And my, yeah, my character in it is great. And I hope that all the scenes I shot get into the final film. That'd be great for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:48But you know they don't have to. Exactly. Yeah, we'll just see. But I loved it. That's amazing. It was so fun. What? How many movies is this now? This year? This is your fourth total? Total? I guess this year I filmed three, about to film a fourth. Wow. Total? How many movies have I been in? I used to be funny. I used to be funny. Jurassic World. Is that it on movies? Sweetheart's the biggest one. and my, yeah, sweetheart's, duh. So yeah, I guess like six or seven total. Okay, work. It's going now. Good for you. It's going now. That's awesome. There were many years where it was not going. Amen.

21:30Amen. You're just begging. You're trying to make the case all the time. And it's like, I mean, the particular thing for me is like when they wanted somebody fat, they wanted like an old, gruff, like masculine construction worker guy. And then when they wanted somebody gay, they wanted like a thin white twink. Absolutely. And so it's just like, I never feel, I never felt when I was starting out like anything made any sense for me ever. And so just like, I mean, we all have our versions of this, right? Of like trying to convince someone that I have a place in this. Absolutely. And then it starts going and you're like, ooh.

21:59They figured it out. Yeah. They figured it out. I'm in that phase right now, I feel like, where I'm like so close. Like I can feel like I could break through at any moment. Yeah. And I'm going to. And you are going to. Well, somebody asked you recently where you want to be in five years. And you said happy, rich, and a Tony winner, right? Yeah. Yeah. Is that the goal still? I think so. I always had this thought that I'd have an EGOT by 30. So I'm making good for my career. How old are you? I'm 25. You got time. I got time. Five years to get those. One a year and one for Buffer. I think that's pretty good.

22:32Yeah. One year off. Right. One year off in there. Right. I can go to Puerto Vallarta and just chill out for a year after I get my Oscar. Yeah. Chilling out. Yeah. That's for sure. That's where I'm at. That's where all the Midwestern gay guys go to Vegas. Snowbird. All the older gay guys in Missouri are snowboarding in PV. I changed my mind. I want to go to Cherry Grove. Yeah, there we go. Make it happen. I want to be free. What's your dream bucket list travel destination that you haven't been? Oh my God, good question. I think I have a list. My phone's over there. On the top of my head, I know I want to go to Tokyo really bad.

23:08I've been to Paris. I've been to London. I want to go to

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23:16Oh Venice I want to figure out what's going on with those Aqueducts Is that what it's called? Canals Are they canals? I want to know why the buildings are in water And why are they frankly? Amsterdam same deal I feel like I just need to Dip my toe in that water really solidified. I think it's because how they used to transport stuff. Sure. They're so old. But like, what's the foundation of the buildings? What's under the buildings? Right. Yeah. That scares me to think about. Yeah. All those buildings, all those houses that were built on stilts on the beach in North Carolina now are like getting taken out to sea.

23:57That's kind of interesting. That's what it feels like to me. Like that feels like the next step. Yeah, is that they just go out there. Venetians, weigh in. Venetians, let us know what your buildings are on. Are they called Venetians? People from Venice? Yeah, right? And I've got it here. Firstly, the city's lagoons provided a natural defensive barrier against invaders. Lagoon. Like the Middle Ages. Yeah, but what are the buildings on, Chance? What are they on? They're on, it's on a lagoon, and they're through canals, and they're on stilts. They're on stilts. Are you kidding me? Wow. That's crazy.

24:30I don't understand architecture one bit. it just feels like that's a lot of faith in a couple of sticks. Especially old-timey. Like, back then? Like, can you imagine when they built, like, the Golden Gate Bridge? Oh, my God. How trusting you had to be? I'm terrified of bridges. For sure. Do you have any phobias? Yeah, but they're all politically incorrect. Trance! Yeah, there's that, and then... Heights can get to me. Okay. Heights can get to me. Not always. but I can get scared of a height. Is it that you're scared you're going to fall? What is it about the height? I like to have control. Sure.

25:10In general. I'm with you on that. And I don't have control when I'm up high. Right. Because the height has the control. Well, you obviously had control in that moment because you're still here. Yeah, I mean, that's a nice way to look at it. It just doesn't feel that way. I feel powerless when I'm high. You know? Yeah. When I'm up there. Yeah. Well, but anyway, what are your phobias? Do you have any? Snakes. wow um tripophobia like the little clusters of small holes I have some friends with that yeah oh oh yeah I don't like thinking about that and um I just said it I forgot snakes tripophobia bridges bridges of course yeah I'm scared of bridges my mom has a uh I don't maybe she got over it she had a few bridges at one point I haven't checked in recently I don't want to speak ill of her if she's cool with bridges now right she's allowed to grow can you go over bridges like what is your yeah absolutely I have to I mean I grew up off the the Arsenal Bridge in Davenport so I had to but it's just like sometimes maybe it's because I'm catastrophizing maybe 80 % of the time it's just like there's no way you can save yourself if a bridge were to collapse and you're on it yeah you know it's over like those kind of things where you can't find a way out kind of stresses me out a lot it's big over if you're in the middle of a bridge and it goes down that's the end for you like you can't jump to the other side.

26:34There's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And also things are clanging around. It's like too, it's too scary. Oh my God. But it would never, yeah. No, it's just not our story. It's not gonna happen. Not our truth. Yeah. Not our story. Yeah. Okay. Now I know what you have phobias of. Right. And if you look under your chair, you'll find six snakes! There are trans snakes in the studio. Yes, there are transsexual snakes. Well, that'd be con. That's just Brooklyn. I was gonna, ah! Yes, yes, yes. Bushwick, You've been called out. I'm going to ask you this question. Okay. And I want you to be so honest with me. If you, for the rest of your life, could only hear two albums.

27:10And I mean, I don't mean. I love this. I'm talking like when you're in the grocery store, when you're in an Uber, when you're watching a movie. The only music you hear for the rest of your life has to come from two albums. Cannot be a Greatest Hits album. What two albums are you picking? What do you mean by Greatest Hits? It can't be a Greatest Hits album. It can't be. You can't do a compilation. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. It has to be two albums that are like technical albums. Mine usually, just to get you started, I'll usually say Miss Education of Lauryn Hill. Oh, taste. And Fly by the Chicks.

27:42Oh, work. Two incredible albums. Oh my God. Okay. I think I'm going to have to go. I think I'm going to have to go. And I'm thinking like the rest of my life. I'm gonna say Brand New Eyes, Paramore Wow and I'm torn between B-Day and Cowboy Carter wait, rest of my life B-Day, Cowboy I'm gonna say Cowboy Carter Really? I was gonna go B-Day I love, B-Day's my favorite album but I think like where I'm at as a 25 year old like Cowboy Carter really made a lot of sense to me Like I felt connected to that story. So I'm thinking about for the rest of my life, I think it's only going to age, I think Cowboy Carter is going to age much better than B-Day did.

28:32Yeah. In 50 years. You know what I mean? Tell me about Paramore. What's your connection to Paramore? Well, first of all, every black person you know likes Paramore. I know that. Whether they know it or not. Yeah. My sister was the one who got me into it really, because she used to listen to it a lot growing up. And my sisters and I were 10 years apart. I have a half-sister who's, I think, five years older than me, and I have a younger brother who's three years younger than me. But my middle sister, she's ten years older, she left the house when I was, like, what, nine for college or something like that.

29:05But she left all of her CDs and stuff. So I was listening to, like, Wicked, Paramore. I was reading the Twilight books, like, all of these things at the fresh age of nine. So I remember listening to the Paramore stuff, and I was like, this is loud. For sure. whatever the fuck this is whatever and i put it down for literally 10 years and as soon as i got to college i was like i know this band and i know they're good and i know ain't it fun and uh still into you but what else do they got yeah blew my mind absolutely blew my mind so yes so black people love paramore black people love paramore this is a constant in my life yeah all my black friends love paramore yeah and i love paramore do you what what what is that is it because hayley Williams like came up in the church as an incredible vocalist or like what is the connection well I've I've been theorizing what this might mean I think it's kind of why black people love anime too it's like there's a certain level of I'm so gassy it's the Red Bull it's the Red Bull there's a certain level of like catharsis in the music I guess it feels good to have that kind of a mixture of the BPM, the vocals, the message, all that comes together and it makes a really powerful message.

30:24At least for me. Because I'm not every black person you know. Okay. Believe it or not. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that makes sense. And I say it's the same as anime because when I watch, especially a shounen action anime, it's kind of the same thing. It's like the message, the tone, the animation, the characters all come together for something that's cathartic in a way. I think that might be why I don't know You kind of just really made me want to watch anime Because I'm not an anime person Are you not? I've never really watched anime Have you ever watched an anime? Can you think of one that you might have What's a really popular anime?

30:59My favorite one's Naruto And it's probably the most popular Never seen it Okay That's crazy You've seen Dragon Ball Z a little, right? Oh, sure That's anime? Yeah And Pokemon, maybe? Oh, yeah I've seen these when I was a kid Yeah But those aren't I feel like when I think of anime I feel like that's not what I think of as anime Why do I think that? I'm just wrong I guess it was given to western kids As a children's show Yeah, I thought maybe there was more I thought there was maybe deeper anime That people were into as adults When people say they're into anime Are they watching Dragon Ball Z? Is that what they mean?

31:31They can, yeah Okay, cool Some of my favorite anime are Number 6 Naruto Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood I would say

31:45Given, Erased, Death Parade. All of these are like, they have really adult themes in most of these anime. Is Sailor Moon an anime? It is. I know about Sailor Moon because so many queer people dress as that. She's pretty iconic too. I think there's a gay girl in the show. There's a gay girl. I'll take...

32:06We're going to dub that over in the edit. You just saying it perfectly with this look. It's not AI. It's just good editing. It's a dub. Anime. Okay, maybe I need to tap into anime. I think you should. Yeah. I think you should. I mean, if you ever have a Google Doc of anime recommendations. Legitimately, please send my way. Will do. What are your favorite musicals of all time? Good question. Oh! Oh, Caleb! I knew you'd be excited about that. I feel like Jill Scott in Why Did I Get Married and she goes Oh! God, that movie is horrible for her. Yeah, it's been, I would hate to be mean to hell like that.

32:46My favorite musicals, Next to Normal, The Color Purple, Safe. Yeah. I like this musical called Title of Show. There's a pretty racially questionable moment in it, but I think we can get past that. Okay. Seems like it's probably not up to me to decide, so I'll take your word for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just a matter of perspective. Yeah, okay. Sure. Yeah.

33:16I really like falsettos. And then like, you know, like the easy ones like Wicked, Rent, Chicago. Is falsettos the name of a show? Yeah. Okay. I didn't know if you meant like the concept of falsettos or if there's a show called falsettos. No, it's a show called falsettos. I didn't know that. I'm so sorry. I love to learn. I'm impressed. I would see falsettos. Do you want to go see falsettos? Is it on right now? No, it's not. I was like, yes, I'll go with you. Do you have favorite musicals? Do what? Are you a musical person? Do you have favorite musicals? No. Okay. Which ones do I like? Okay. Chance, you know what ones I like.

33:51Legally Blonde. I love Legally Blonde. I guess I liked that. I don't like when people, when the emotion gets really big and all they can do is sing.

34:03That kind of bothers me. So should I fucking fuck myself? I like seeing my friends. I want you to know that's my job. I like seeing my friends in anything. I want to come see your show. I went to All Chances. I don't really like when people make jokes on a microphone. Yeah. Who's that? Is that anything? That was tough to hear. That was really tough to hear. That was really tough to hear. What do you think? Okay. It's all right. It's okay. Caleb came to see me in Runaways. Okay. I did. I saw All Chances shows in college, and they were, you know. Did you like it? I love supporting my friends. Oh, God.

34:36It means the world to me to support my friends. musicals are just hard because also the theater is hard in general for me i love the theater i have so much respect for the theater they need to do something about the chairs oh absolutely sorry i'm with you a hundred percent on that i'm tall i'm fat and i can't be living like this it feels like this it's akin to like being in a plane like it's the worst feeling ever yeah and it's a night out yeah when you go to on a plane you're like i have to do this to get somewhere yeah going to the theater and being uncomfortable for two and a half hours is like i'm due this was the activity.

35:05If I don't get an aisle seat, I literally cannot sit in the chair. It would be like if your friend was like, I'm a flight attendant. Would you come sit middle row economy for a couple hours and watch me do my thing? It's like, well, yeah, if you really want me to, but I'm going to have a bad time. I don't know if I would. It's hard. I don't know if I would. It's hard, dude. I've been in an era of saying no, and I love it. I love saying no. You're in your no era? I love it. Your no-ra? I love it. Whoa. Well, my thing is like, if I genuinely know I can do good by you or for you, I will do it yeah but if it's like i have to extend myself in a way that i don't want to in this moment i'm gonna say no yeah i'm gonna say no no's powerful love it i've been on no for years good for you i've been living in no for a long time it's crazy because it feels like like mid 20s right now it's like how have i not been doing this my entire life you're so young i don't feel that but yeah you're so young i don't feel that at all i feel that i've been here many many years But, you know, being queer, it's like, once you turn 26, you're kind of dead.

36:03I'm 30. Damn. Yeah. You're saying that to a 30-year-old. And isn't your birthday in January? Yeah, so it'll be 31. So you think I've been dead for four years? What kind of flowers would he might want? Tulips. Tulips. That's all right. Outdoor dashes. You know what? I have good news for you. What? It only gets better. Okay, I'm excited. When you get to my age, you're going to see things all kinds of different ways. And the crazy thing about healing, the crazy thing about getting, not getting rid of, but coping with trauma is like, now I feel like I will be 30 one day, you know, which is good. I love that feeling.

36:38This was a big part of my problem as well. I never saw myself. I was, when I, all my whole life up to like 17, I was like, I don't see myself being 18. Yep. I think I'm going to die. And then when I turned 18, genuinely every year after that, I've been like, oh, this is a miracle. Color me gag when I found out that was just a trauma response. Yeah. I was like, whoa. not me being alive still serious like that like come on i was just having a little fun yeah no um yeah i should be therapized but yes i'm so glad that you're here thank you i'm so glad that you're here too just so you know yeah are you in therapy i kind not anymore yeah i got to a point where i didn't this sounds bad but i didn't need it anymore it doesn't sound bad you fix certain problems right i might go in soon for like maintenance just to get like better coping skills with like certain work things but no i was in therapy like five months no what is it october yeah five months ago i stopped going yeah and how's it been pretty good i'm actually really proud of myself when it comes to that i've like been able to

37:46i guess like self-naviate or maybe self-therapize like problems that have been coming up and i'm really proud of myself for that what is that you did you think that's the biggest thing you've gotten out of therapy so far? Yeah. When I first started doing therapy, I think maybe two or three years ago, every session I would be crying. And I was like, okay. Maybe it was good that I was here. Fuck. Yeah. I was like, okay. My bad. I didn't even know that it was like that. And this year it's been about like, a lot of the problems I'm having now is just like work related and like self care. And she wasn't telling me, this sounds bad too, but she wasn't saying anything that I didn't know.

38:23Yeah. It was just a matter of, I guess I needed someone else to tell me to do the things that I know how to do, I guess. Yeah. It was like, leave out time for yourself. Cook your own meals. Stop going to Wendy's. Right. Right. Maybe figure out a way to go to sleep without jerking off. Yeah. So. Why? I know. I haven't got past that one yet. That one seems harmless. I'll let you know when I do. I'll text you. Yeah. You text me at like 6 a.m. one morning? I did it. Good news, King. I just slept without jerking off. I fucking did it. I fucking did it. That one seems harmless. It is harmless. I think it is.

38:57Yeah. But who knows? Yeah. I've been thinking about getting back to therapy, but mostly because I really relate to the thing about like, well, a therapist has never told me something I don't know, frankly, like that's just reality. Every time I've been in therapy, they've said things that I'm like, duh, like, I'm sorry, just duh. I know that. I feel like a lot of it is just like, you need someone to say, you need to do it. You need to take an action item. I think I want someone to be there keeping track. Like I would like to, I'd like to be with someone who's like, Remember three months ago when you were working on that thing and now it's better?

39:27Because I will have that realization myself sometimes way too late that I'm like, you've gotten way better at this thing. I would like to maybe, I'm thinking about going back to therapy now because I'm like, that would be nice to just have someone who's like, hey, how's that thing going? Okay. How's that thing you were working on? Are you the same way creatively when it comes to your comedy and work and stuff like that? How do you mean? Do you need partners and stuff to keep you motivated? No. I'm very self-motivated. And I would actually like to incorporate more collaboration into my creative life.

39:57I see what you're saying. Yeah. I do pretty much everything on my own creatively. Okay, cool. Like in terms of like ideating. Now making things, like there's a whole team to make everything. I obviously can't engineer the show. Nicole does that. I need Chance's help, Michelle's help. I have a lot of help in my life. But when it comes to like writing jokes, finishing the script, getting the thing done, like the creative stuff that needs to come from my brain. And I would like to work in more ways to extract that stuff with other people. I think that'd be fun. Do you have any advice for me to start stand-up?

40:27Are you thinking about starting stand-up? I want to. Oh, my God. I think it's the next natural thing I need to do. That makes me so happy. I love that. Well, my advice is just start doing it. Okay. And open mics were never any good for me, personally. I didn't have fun at them. They were deeply misogynistic, which made me ill, and homophobic, which made me mad. and even when they weren't, I just didn't feel like it was useful information. Six comics barely paying attention to you, laughing at your material, tells you nothing about a joke. A lot of comics I deeply love and respect disagree with that.

40:57My personal opinion is that it's just not good feedback. Okay. So here's the advice I would give you or anyone who's thinking about starting stand-up is there's always room for more of us. Please do it. I don't subscribe to the idea that we need fewer stand-ups. We need more people who give a shit about it and actually want to be good at it. Yeah. So if that's you, come on out. And then what I would say is like, get booked on some some show friend shows and things like low stakes shows to build some material and then after you have a good little base of material if you want to test new stuff ask to jump on someone's show or do a booked show like in new york it's like union hall little field bell house these are those places and the way i test new material without doing open mics is well now i could put up a new material show if i wanted to like i'm lucky to have an audience like that but when i didn't i would do like a 70 30 or a 60 40 where i would do like i would open with a a really strong joke that i've done before that i know works and then i would try some new stuff and then i would middle with a strong existing joke try some new stuff and then close with a existing joke okay so it's like i'm not robbing the audience of a good set yeah i know that i'll open open middle and close on something that's tested and works but i'm also not robbing myself of the chance to get a genuine audience reaction that's really smart working on okay wow that's piece of advice I can give you.

42:10Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I would love to see you do stand-up. I would love to see it, too. And the thing is, I kind of, all of my jokes are already posted online. You know what I mean? Like, I'm already a comedian. I just need to take literally what I post on TikTok and make a story out of it. So I'm excited. Absolutely. This is something I'm thinking about doing maybe next year. I'm pretty booked until the end of it. Of this year. I love it. I think also something to consider is like, there are a lot of people who put like John Marco is somebody who's such a great stand-up such a great writer he was just on the show too I love him and he tests a lot of stuff online and then takes it to the stage so that's one way to do it and then another way a way that I like to do it is if I have something that's really juicy and really good that I think is going to be amazing like if I think it's like stand-up that I'm going to love I won't say it anywhere else and I'll save it for the stage and that sometimes is really fun too to be like oh if I have this story that I love that I think is so juicy and like so it stays fresh and then I just don't know there's been many a comedian in New York that I've seen online and I'm like I know every single one of your punchlines already yeah I gotcha I think saving some stuff for the stage is so such a gift having some allure exactly some mystique some mystique I'm excited for your stand up era thank you do you have like stand up inspirations yes I'm so glad you asked obviously Bob I love Bob the Drag Queen she's like one of my biggest inspirations Bob is so fucking funny and smart It's insane.

43:38It's smart. Yeah. Like, so smart. Yeah. Do you know who Ali Sadiq is? I don't. He's really funny. Yeah. He's, I remember watching one of his specials, and I think I was just listening to it, and the way he can navigate through a story, and his timing is perfect. I love Ali Sadiq. It used to be, used to be Kevin Hart, too, but I'm going to - What changed? I don't know. It became too flouncy, I guess. I'm not going to go in that direction, is what I'm essentially saying. I will say on that front, and this is personally no knock on Kevin, I really respect his craft genuinely. But there is, I do think he, it seems that he suffered a little bit from what a lot of stand-up suffer from, which is that stand-up is the people's art form.

44:26Stand-up is a relatability art form. Yes. Getting up in front of a room of people and talking about life in a way that makes sense to you and to them. I think after his, whatever his third Netflix thing was. Because guess what happened? Yeah. He got rich. Yeah. And so you get rich. And then if you're lucky, you don't lose touch. But very few people have been lucky. And I think he suffers a little bit now from being like, all of his stories are like, me and LeBron James, we're on the PGA. And it's like, I'm bored. I do like him with Dwayne The Rock Johnson. I think they're hilarious together. Well, they're just so.

44:54They're so. It's like right there. It's written there. Oh, and Monique as well. Monique is huge. You know she's one of mine. I love Monique. Monique, Queens of Comedy set. Monique Queens of Comedy set she is everything to me you skinny bitches are evil and you need to be destroyed you need to be destroyed her, the Monique Queens of Comedy set her coming out and say I've talked about this a million times on this show at this point the two of the most iconic sets of all time to me are Monique Queens of Comedy and Bernie Mac I love Bernie Mac I never got into him deeply I love this show though unbelievable, especially that set the I'm not scared of y 'all kick it that set but Monique when she starts that set by coming out and going every fat bitch in this room should be standing up and applauding me right now

45:44that's mother and I was like that's mother and I did I got up and applauded that's mother I had just like the first time I saw that in high school I had never seen a fat person take up a room like that and I was like oh she's not apologizing she's so in charge I feel like if people scroll down my channels they will see the inspirations of Monique and Ali and a little bit of and Bob of just seeing how I navigate and every word is funny, I'm picking each word specifically for the joke that's what I really appreciate about their kind of comedy too smart she's so smart and fearless and yeah I love her Queens of Comedy says the biggest thing for me but then obviously The Parkers Meet the Parkers I don't know if I've seen it really oh my god is there what joke was the most I don't know if I've seen it it's not really it's a sitcom so it's just like her oh I didn't I don't know anything about this and also was it Meet the Parkers or just The Parkers that's what I thought The Parkers is Monique sitcom from like late 90s early 2000s who else is in it who else was in it yeah so it was called just The Parkers and it was on 1999 to 2004 on UPN.

47:05It was a spinoff to Moesha. Oh! It stars Monique, Countess Vaughn, Mari Morrow, I have heard of this. Dorian Wilson, Jenna Von Oye, Ken L, and Yvette Wilson. You have to watch it for a million reasons, but not the least of which is Monique plays a horny legend. Yes. Monique plays a horny legend. Oh, I live. She's so horny in that show. Is she not just a horny legend? Well, she is, but I'm saying in the show, she's going after this professor the whole time. I love that. It's unbelievable. And I think maybe because I do gaydar, a lot of people think I'm just a lexicon of references. Yeah. If it is before 2010, I promise you I don't know it.

47:48Yeah. I promise you. Well, do you know, I randomly will know a bunch of stuff about the, I don't know if you guys ever got into this, but the I love the 90s, I love the OOs. I love the, do you know, do you know that show? See, there's something missing in our culture now. Was it VH1 or MTV? It was VH1. VH1 had this series called like, I love the series. Oh, okay. And it was a panel show for comedians and writers and musicians to come on and do like talking head interviews about like, I love the 2000s would be like everything important that happened culturally in the 2000s. Gotcha. And it was like how I learned pop culture history.

48:22Okay. And I don't know if it's streaming somewhere, but honestly, like worth a watch. That actually sounds like something I need. And it's funny. My sisters are constantly trying to catch me up on, like, pop culture references from the 90s and the 2000s. But I just, there's so much where I can't, like, there's no way I can be, like, at the front of now and trying to learn at the same time. I don't know. I'm not really at the front of now. I'm behind on so many things now. I don't know what the hell's going on. Movies I'm pretty up on, but TV shows, I haven't seen, like, any TV show. Yeah. So I'm always behind on that.

48:56the parker's iconic though they go to college together they have a little apartment it's mother-daughter it's cute love an adult sitcom yeah really fun what is your favorite like what's your favorite tv show of all time my instinct is to say naruto but um just because it's what i grew up on yeah i think if i had to pick like a western live action live action um i don't know yeah that's a good one i will say what i liked recently in the past year or so i loved the last of us i thought they did that really really well yeah i loved um i recently watched what's it called scavenger's reign i liked it i couldn't finish it though because it was too uh heebie-jeebie yeah um scary or like it was just like not scary there's like creatures and morphine and body horror and gore and that kind of stuff and i'm not a huge fan of that stuff but it was a great story what else have I liked oh interview with the vampire okay got it interview with the vampire is probably one of my favorite TV shows ever hell yeah I love that have you seen it?

50:06no gay vampires start in Louisiana I need to lock in hello that's all you need that is all I need I really need you to see that TV show actually I will what is so true to you? so true to me Is this the thing you guys told me to come? Okay. I've been thinking about this. Thank you. You're one of the only. I knew this is the thing. I go on podcasts and I'm like, oh, they're going to ask me something for their show. And I'm always under research. So I was thinking about it. And not to be on some alpha, beta, omega dynamics shit, but to also be on some alpha, beta, omega shit. Yeah. I think men should get pregnant.

50:55Thank you. This has come up recently. I really do. Yeah. And I can't speak to the logistics. Yeah. I can't speak to the anatomy or the physiology of such. Yeah. I just think we would be in a completely different position globally if men got pregnant. I agree. And it's not even like they need to be inseminated. Maybe it's every time they inseminate, they get pregnant. Like if there's some kind of... The egg travels into them. Let's wake that up. Boom. Where is science? Boom. Because what are we doing with science if the egg can't go up the dick? I'm thinking like... Okay, first of all, crazy. Wild.

51:37That's insane. Whoa. I'm thinking like anything from financially to racially to sexually, romantically, things would change. Yeah. And I don't know if it's better what's so true to me. What's so true to me? I don't know if it's better if both sexes can get pregnant. So it's all skate? Yeah. Or if it's like in 20 years, or no, in two years, everybody on the other side of the spectrum can get pregnant. I don't know what's better. Yeah. but that's what's true to me. I think men should get pregnant. I like that. I really like that and I would support it and love it and I wish I could get a man pregnant.

52:27I've said this on the show. I think it would be really cool.

52:36What? It's a lot, Caleb. You think that's crazy of me? I don't think it's crazy. I just, maybe what's happening is I'm reconciling my head canon of you from a bottom to a top. Whoa. You thought I was a bottom this whole time. No, I didn't think you were just a bottom. Yeah. I thought you might have had a preference. I never thought you were just a bottom. I always thought you were so much more than that. Right. We teach bottoms. And James Factora, they're a writer at them, came on my show and was like, we teach bottoms to be small, to shrink themselves. I was like, that is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life.

53:11I'm not a top or a bottom or a verse. I'm a dedicated team player who thrives in a fast-paced environment. and you'd be great at Starbucks. You'd be great at Starbucks. I'd just love to see the team win, you know? Are you a cuck? I want to see everyone, I want to see everyone getting what they need. I want everyone to come. I live for that. I want everyone to have a good time. Everybody should come. Everybody should come. You included? Me. Oh, definitely. If I don't come, it didn't happen. It sounded just so altruistic. I wasn't expecting that from you. Oh, no, I'm coming. Yeah. No, I need to come.

53:48I'm going to get mine, sweetie. But everyone gets to come. Yeah. I'm not the only one. You're a social comer. You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I want you to stop acting like you can't. And I'm coming.

54:05Do not come. Do not come. Do not come. Do not come. I love that. Good for you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm proud of you. Thank you. What's your usual so true take? Oh, I haven't done one in a while. What's so true to me right now?

54:21I mean, I say some version of this all the time, but we really, we have to throw the smartphones in the oceans. Sure. It has to end. I think about often about like - It's not working. How, I miss letters. I miss letters. I miss writing letters. Really cool. One of my friends and I used to be pen pals. Like we would send each other letters instead of like texting all the time. Yeah. But then they moved here. Fuck. Fuck. Like what the fuck? I have a friend in New York who sends me letters. That's awesome. Yeah. I guess I could. It's just like now there's not really an excuse. Yeah. I just, yeah, I need us to figure something else out.

54:58I'm not having fun. Yeah. I don't want people to continue hitting me up. What's so true to me is don't hit me up. Like unless you have something really fun to bring to me, stop asking me for stuff. Everybody wants something. That's true. I wonder, maybe we'll talk about this off the camera too, but it feels like I'm in this exact same experience where it feels like a lot of people need a lot of things from me all of a sudden and I hate it. And I think they have, it's the constant access to me that is allowing them to do such, which I hate. Yeah, there's something, yeah, I'm trying really hard to give off a don't contact me vibe that's not, there's something about my jolly fat midwestern presence that's negating the vibe I'm giving.

55:40Sure. And so I'm actually, I think I'm giving off hit me up. Right, because it's, I mean like Do you ever feel like you can't be fat and mean? For sure. Okay. Constantly. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm doing it anyway. I was literally getting ready to say, so you're being both. So you're being both. And we're right back to bisexual. And we're right back to bi. All roads lead to bi, and I've always said that. All roads lead to bi. What's your sexuality these days? I'm a non-binary, bisexual trans woman. That's what I thought. Yeah, that's a lot. Insert applause. Insert applause. You know a lot of people just had an aneurysm.

56:12Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like... All my Republican fans. Their brain took a screenshot. The number's not zero. Chance, I would like to do a segment, please. Let's go. Thank you, babe. Ah, I'm so excited for this. Ananiya, I have a segment for you. True or false. I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can. If you think that what I just said is true or false, if you get 10 or more correct, you know. Okay. We're going to give you 50 US dollars. Okay. the segment has kind of randomly become like everyone's favorite part of the show it is kind of iconic it's the iconic it's also such a good we'll talk marketing later but it's just such a good it's such a good way to post like to promote your show we'll talk marketing later okay you ready yeah but if I do get less than 10 I'm calling you transphobic of course alright and you would be right cheese existed before written language true true smoking one cigarette can reduce your life expectancy by about 20 days false false it's 20 minutes snakes sleep but their eyes open False.

57:11True. A group of wild cats is called a destruction. True. True. Iowa State University's mascot is the Hawkeyes. False. False. It's the Cyclones. And yeah, that was a chance you tried to do a trick, but a real Iowa person knows. There's no word in the English language that rhymes with month. False. True. Emerson College's school paper is the Berkeley Beacon. Oh, true. True. Cynthia Erivo was born in Scotland. True. False. England. Razor scooters came out in 1989. True. False. 2000. William Henry Harrison was only president for a month. True. True. Only 2 % of Earth's population naturally has green eyes.

57:52False. True. Davenport, Iowa is the largest of the Quad Cities. True. True. Facebook is older than LinkedIn. I actually don't know. True. False. Okay. Heinz ketchup. Okay. Okay. Immediately. Okay. Heinz ketchup was originally a glue company False The Pope can't be an organ donor False True What the fuck How'd they do Nine You transphobic piece of shit I know I did get all the Iowa ones right Thank you for that Oh maybe it'll go Slow that down make me look cool Nine was a beautiful run The Pope thing what is that? It's true. Is it because his organs are so much better than mine? They're holy from God.

58:43It's because the church owns his body. Yeah. Yeah. Wake up. Wake up, people. Literally wake up. Hello? That doesn't sound crazy. Say that one more time. The Catholic church owns the Pope's body. Hello? Is that not fucking crazy? These people are psychotic. If you take any piece of religion and just like sit with it for a moment, they're all fucking bananas. I knew I wasn't going to be at least religious in that sense very long as soon as I started asking questions. Yeah. Because the reaction from adults, when you start asking questions, no, I was like, something's up. The whole thing's crumbling.

59:19Something's up. They're like, don't poke holes. I've decided on this. Yeah, it's nuts. Why? Because it is. Yeah. Why? Because it is. Uh-uh. No, ma 'am. Ananiya. Yes. Such a treat to have you. I am so honored to be here. Thank you. We love you so deeply. Tell the people where they can find you, what they should be watching. You can find me at Ananiah00, A-N-A-N-I-A-00, and watch my show Gaydar. And come see you. And come see Saturday Church. By the time this comes out, we might be closed. When do you close? October 24th. Nope, there's some time. Oh, work! Come see Saturday Church at the New York Theatre Workshop.

59:54Come see Saturday Church. I'm abroad. And watch Gaydar and follow Ananiah. Thank you so much for doing it, babe. Thank you! Yay! Bye, queers! That was a Hate Gum podcast.

From the publisher

Welcome! This week’s guest is the iconic Anania! Anania and Caleb talk everything from their mutual midwest roots, phobias, hosting Gaydar, Paramore, favorite anime’s, and so much more! 

Join our Substack for an exclusive post-episode chat with Anania and other bonus content! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ 

Follow Anania! @anania00

Follow the show! @sooootruepod 

Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings 

Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud

Head to https://www.squarespace.com/SOTRUE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SOTRUE.

Donate to support Planned Parenthood now at https://www.PlannedParenthood.org/Defend 

About Headgum: 
Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. 

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So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.

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