Ego Nwodim is a Giver

0:00This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen? Snacks? A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.

0:41From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Feeling short on smiles? Does your frown need to be turned upside down? We got the perfect dose of comedy. 30 minutes of scrubs. Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, and the rest of the gang at Sacred Heart are back for a brand new season. We play medical doctors who are besties. Just like in real life. And we'll definitely be up in each other's cases. Describe the premieres Wednesday on ABC. And stream the next day on Hulu. Side effects may include laughing, cheering, and lots of high fives. Hello, Superman. This is a HeadGum Podcast. When we implement their plan, 90 % of people have a worse life than they could.

1:24when we implement my plan, they're still okay. Okay, so Caleb for president. It's giving Caleb. Hello, he's running.

1:36There you go. Caleb, I got hair in my mouth. Hey, honey. We have to talk. Honey, I've been meaning to talk to you. We have to talk. We have some shit to get down about. We have to talk. Okay. Tell me what's going on with you. Where do we even begin? What's happening with me is that it's summer. Yes. I love me some summer, okay? And I know that sounds like basic bitchery, top-tier basic bitchery, but I love summer, and I feel like I haven't got a handle on this one. And that's actually going to go ahead and be stressing me out, champagne problems. It's what my mother immigrated to this country for so that I could be stressed about how fun my summer is.

2:15She sort of uprooted from Nigeria and came to Baltimore to let you be stressed out by being a star. Yes, exactly. precisely yes she said she said we're gonna work on something we're gonna cook we're gonna cook yeah i'm gonna set you up so well that your issue is my summer doesn't feel fun enough i haven't i haven't even been to the maldives i haven't touched the maldives since last quarter go ahead and say my girl meaning my mother has done a fantastic job yeah she sure has set me up but that is i'm truly like i gotta do something this summer yeah i have to do something what have you been up to this summer baby let me tell you tell me because here's what happened okay and chance can verify we went on tour at the beginning of this year a very very fun very exciting stressful tour yeah and the entire tour i was telling myself i am fucking off this summer come hell or high water baby okay i am going to europe okay i am i am renting a place that is frankly irresponsible like yes i am buying a flight that you couldn't even begin to justify energy i am spending money like you wouldn't believe is what I said to myself about this summer.

3:19And do you know what I've done this summer? You ain't do none of that shit. Work. I am podcasting on Sundays. You didn't do none. One of those things on that list. Mary, a beach has been touched. And that's what, that's, you know what? That's kind of like what life is. I'm truly, you make plans. God giggles. God laughs. I was about to say, we make plans. And what does God do? He's going to go ahead and laugh at that ass. He's chuckling in heaven. He's chuckling. And so he, she, they, whatever. Who cares? It doesn't actually even matter. It doesn't matter to me. Frankly. Calling God he, him to me is actually, I'm being funny.

3:52I'm like, I don't actually care. I don't think he's got one of those. Yeah, I'm like, he doesn't have that. Not worried about gendering God. He's the way I call people brother. I'm like, this is like, I'm kidding. I feel like you call me brother. I've called you brother. Of course, you've called me brother. And I, you sister. Yeah. Anyway, honestly, that's what's top of mind today. I'm going to go have a little like summer something. I'm gonna go somewhere and do something summary if my life my life like my life depends on it and it might and it might and so anyway that's honestly Caleb that's everything and so it was so good to see you today and come on the pod this was a lot of fun this was a lot of fun honey you have fun out there having me thank you chance thank you you're stronger than me because you know what I'm gonna be doing tonight is go to bed at 6 p.m.

4:36because you and I are filming a movie together right now we are filming a movie and we are up early We're up early. My pickup time is 4.15 a.m. We're up. Mind you, I normally go to bed at like... 3.45. 3.45. I'm going to be on 30 minutes. Yeah. Not even. I'm going to be... Well, no, not even 30. I'll get 15 minutes of sleep and I'm going to have an attitude tomorrow. No, I normally go to bed at midnight-ish. Same. And so I'm... We were talking about this, training our bodies to wake up early tomorrow and get... I'm hell-bent on getting eight hours of sleep. Yeah. If I have to take all kinds of potions and such to fall asleep at 8 p.m.

5:14tonight. Oh, I'll be drugged out. I'm going to be drugged out. When I tell you Benadryl popping. A little edible. A little edible. A little edible to put me to sleep. I'm talking to some warm tea about it. Oh, yeah. I'm getting sleepy time tea. I called my mom. I was like, I haven't been able to fall asleep. And she was like, have you tried sleepy time tea? And I was like, you know what? I do have that in the cabinet. Sometimes you need to get back to the basics. You and I are. Okay. Can I just say how crazy? already in this conversation and multiple times while we've been doing this movie I will be seconds away from saying something and you will identically say what I'm about to say.

5:48It's crazy because also our characters are so like bestie, energy chaotic and someone asked, did you hear that someone asked on Friday if we worked together before that's how much the chemistry is chemistrying. They think we've been doing this. And when I tell you we haven't. We have not. When I tell you this is brand new, Caleb and I met. Over one hot dog. Over one hot dog in Kansas City, Missouri. Yes. And that was that. And now we're working together. And the chemistry is, like you said it to me in Kansas City, kindred spirits of sorts. You like called it early. You had to have thought I was crazy because I want to say I met Ego.

6:25I met you. I want to say 10 minutes into the conversation, I looked into your eyes and I said, we were meant to meet. I think so. But here's the thing is, I'm the same kind of crazy and will say shit to people like this. God put us here God put us here and they go okay I mean no I was called to be here like literally someone told me I had to be here but I'm like when you said that I go just off the strength of you saying that I was like that in and of itself is evidence that you would say we were meant to meet very me very my energy extremely you but we're doing listen our attitudes on set have been phenomenal when I tell you Caleb you are a cheerleader you are bringing vibes you are bringing energy you are bringing coffee.

7:06I'm working at it. You're doing great. Has anyone told you? No. I'm going to tell you. Somebody needs to tell Caleb. You're doing great. Thank you, honey. I try to bring morale. That's what I think I offer. I think I'm very good at my job. Yes, you are. But I think I'm funny and I'm good at my job, but I think my job on a set is to, as much as possible, even when the days are long and hard, my job is to be like, let's keep everyone in a good mood. Yeah, come on. Divine assignment. By the way. By the way. Given to me. I don't I know I'm on a mission from God I don't I feel it directly you think I don't feel it I hope you do oh no I do because I'm sending it to you I feel the energy I caught a picture okay hold on I took a picture of you when we were shooting in what 100 degree weather yeah maybe 99 and you were on the stoop reading a book top of the day and I thought I looked over I was in the middle of conversation with two of the other actors and I said I'm sorry I actually need to take this photograph like fully stopped the conversation mid-convo it was building i said oh no no that's a picture yeah um and i posted it online i tagged what is it hands hot guys reading oh hot guys reading nyc um which they need to bring that back by the way i didn't realize it had been defunct yeah i was like they hadn't had a post on there in a while anyway who ran out whoever runs that account bring it back and you know they listen you bring that account honestly it feels like yes the person who runs hot guys reading nyc listens to so true pod and so i am petitioning you to bring it back reactivate the account or hand it over to someone who wants to be committed to the cause yeah and after everything you do for the culture this is the least they could do for you the least you could do is get that account popping again give back to a giver yeah let's give back to a giver shout out to givers hey first of all first of all let's shout out givers no one's shouting out givers Because it's a culture that's really talking a lot about takers.

9:03Oh my gosh. Everyone's a taker. What can I get? What can I get? Can we big up the givers real quick? Big up to the givers. Big up givers. Yeah. Been saying. I've been saying. It needs to happen. And also to the takers, why don't you guys go live on an island together and see how that works? Y 'all just take, take, take from each other and let these givers give. Let the givers give and let everyone be sort of altruistic in their efforts. Because you're giving. I am giving. You're giving. It's giving. You're giving. It's giving. I'm giving. It goes giving. I am a giver. But I was going to say that that picture I posted of you, did it go ahead?

9:39How did you feel? Did you feel violated? After I posted it, I thought, because you didn't repost it, I said, oh, no, I've pissed Caleb off. Oh, no, I thought it was very cute. I'm trying to post less these days. I saw, you know, you went ahead and scrubbed your Instagram. I scrubbed and I don't reshare a lot now. May I ask what? no I didn't take it as a personal affront that you didn't reshare but I thought oh no have I violated his privacy because I didn't ask permission and you probably should be asking permission you and I are on a level though again remember kindred spirits you felt what was there yeah what's going on you've unscrubbed the account you're trying to post this where is this coming from you know I recognize this is your podcast I will happily tell you this by the way and don't worry I have questions for you okay great my situation is this and I do wonder how you feel about it because you're and I will turn it back on you but I will say for my part of it so much of this job is being perceived and I'm so grateful I really really really from the bottom of my heart feel so unbelievably lucky that this is my job that I get to make people laugh and be on shows and film a movie with you and like I really feel like this is insane I literally cannot believe this happened to me and also being perceived at uh such a rate and level at all times is really actually quite scary to me and really I have a pretty deep discomfort with um it's even though it's like it probably crazy for people to hear that based on the fact that I fucking do this like I put this little mic on and do this every week yeah I just feel pretty uncomfortable with it and I feel like whoa and so I'm the best thing I ever did for myself was making a specific page for the podcast yeah where it's posting of me all the time Virginia shout out Virginia posts me every single day and it's clips of me talking to the guests and it's my little face on the thing and so on my page I feel like I have the freedom to go like I do still post a lot I post stories all the time talking about politics and things and sharing music that I like but I just feel I need to scale back a little bit on being perceived because I can see how it makes people insane I have watched it make people that I love insane we talked about that and I can I can totally feel there are times when I'm like I will say or do or feel something that I'm like that's not your actual morals or perspective that is the impact of the insane weird life that you're living and you need to reign it in yeah and when you say that do you mean like that is the impact of the weird life you're in is that to say like you feel pressure to to articulate a certain point of view because that's what people are expecting of you and you want to deliver on that or do you feel like it's just warping your sense of what you believe actually your sense of the world not my beliefs so much i mean i do feel pretty solid in my beliefs but it's more like just like post like Like posting something, I don't know, sometimes I just feel the, there's this like pressure to be like, you should post and let people know that you're relevant.

12:21Or you should post and let people know that you went to that party or you had lunch with this person. Or there's that feeling because you see everyone doing it, you know, and people ask and they get excited and they are in your comments being like, I can't believe you're friends with so and so or whatever. And I have to push back on that within myself and go like, that's not your values. You actually don't care about that. yeah that is you um very understandably kind of giving into this culture of performance of self that is like i am performing myself very often on stage on screen and on this podcast yeah but so there are just times where i'm like on your own social media page you actually do not have to do that at all times and i think the step back has allowed me to just like uh evaluate more closely does that make sense it makes total sense to me and honestly because we're kindred spirits i'm listening i'm going did i not just have this conversation with someone yesterday who is not in entertainment but i was telling them i'm like it's such a strange i also deeply deeply deeply deeply deeply grateful like what a dream i'm literally living in my dream that's so cool but you know when you dream that you're not uh i would say like the details of the dream not all the details are sort of like painted before you in that time while you're asleep you're slumbering you're dreaming not everything you're not able to perceive all that the dream all that exist in the dream.

13:36So one of the things that exists in this dream that I didn't think about is have what it would be like to have a social media presence and have all types of people be able to comment and engage with you. I didn't think about what it would be like to like now be like, I want to look like shit and go to the coffee shop and I'm having a bad day and I just want to go on a walk with my dog in Brooklyn and oh no, people are going to recognize me. and it's not oh no I'm so grateful that means my work is resonating yeah but two things can be true um and twist did you know that two things could be true by the way two things can be true we just passed that I think I just yeah Congress just voted on that yeah I would say good job Congress you love Congress you've always saying that the way I'm obsessed with Congress specifically the current one yeah the current Congress oh my gosh don't you how much time do we have no um i i it's an interesting thing to like grapple with and sort of navigate and there are worse things in the world worse things happening but my reality and my experience is mine and that's what i can speak to right now and it is just a strange thing to go oh no i remember someone i was like on a walk with heidi um in our neighborhood and someone and i was crying and someone was like oh my gosh can i get a picture with you girl no and i was like i'm fully crying you can see that i'm crying no you want me crying in the photo um and i just it was it was interesting and that sort of thing happens where i'm like you know your therapist might tell you go on a walk to decompress and like go outside feel nature feel the air on your face and then i'm like i love that that idea sounds amazing but then i go outside and there are people who might recognize me because yay you like my work and i'm like oh no i'm trying to have a moment yeah I'm trying to have a moment and so it's just an interesting um it's just an interesting space and world to navigate and it's not something I had thought about when I dreamt my dream and it does come with the territory but it's something to negotiate for yourself well it's this like part it's this like yeah it's like this the overwhelming feeling is gratitude excitement and joy yes and then there's this interesting little caveat to it that I genuinely try not to talk about because I will say the couple of times I've talked about how weird it is to be perceived on that level people get mad people do get mad and it's so and i understand it is crazy but i'm like i do get what you mean i'm just telling you this is what i'm experiencing i understand people getting upset but my whole thing about everything on the planet basically is like y 'all i'm gonna need you to do me a solid if you don't do for nobody else give to the giver give to the giver give to the giver come to my island where we're giving okay it's giving but it's like empathy yeah just for one moment imagine you don't know what someone else's experience is like even when i see comments online and people are so sure of things and they're so the way they attack people and they go this person should have done that that that exchange should have gone this way what i would have done is no you wouldn't have you are not there you don't know what it's like and i genuinely is this this is a comedy podcast but i'm on my soapbox oh this is not a comedy podcast and i'm very clear about that and some people do not like that and they don't like that And maybe if you want laughs, go see Caleb on tour.

16:47Or go 10 minutes into this episode. I bet there'll be some. Just relax. We're doing it all. We was laughing up top. But point is, I would really love to see people offer one another empathy. So if Caleb Heron says, you know, there's this little caveat to this incredible dream of mine. And I feel a sense of overwhelming gratitude. I believe Caleb has then covered his bases. So then when Caleb says there's this little caveat that is uncomfortable and a difficult thing to grapple with or navigate, you might be able to then go, I don't know what that's like. Yes, maybe my knee-jerk reaction is you asked for it.

17:24You signed up for it. But may I pause and go, I actually have never been in that position. And that sounds tough. Caleb is saying it's tough. I trust it's tough. Yeah. And I may want it. I may think that if I was in that position, I would respond differently. And you might because your values might be different. And you might want to be perceived everywhere you go. And that might make you feel alive. But I'm so over the lack of empathy on the Internet and also all the people going, I know exactly what happened in this exchange. I know exactly. And I have an opinion. I remember in college, this guy dated used to ask me all the time, like, what do you think of this?

18:01What do you think about that? And I go, I don't have enough information about it. I don't have to have an opinion. and I don't need to give you one to prove that I'm intelligent. I think I'm very intelligent, but I'm going to go, I don't have enough information on that and I don't have to have an opinion about everything. And that's that. And I wish people realized, yeah, I wish people recognized like you don't have to have a take on literally everything and you certainly don't have to tell someone that their experience, their personal experience of their life, a thing that they literally lived is not what they're perceiving it to be.

18:33Not necessary. Not necessary. And there's also more broadly in a way that's different than just like, oh, can Caleb talk about why he doesn't want to be or why he is trying to manage his perception in a broader way. Artistically, you talked you said something really interesting about covering bases that I've been thinking about a lot culturally because I think we're losing some recipes. It's getting harder, I think, for people to write and create and be funny and be artistic because there's this thing happening culturally right now that is we're doing across the board to each other. that is like filling in any absolutely any blank or space in a statement that someone makes with a worst case scenario intention assumption of like so if i were to say for example if i were to say like oh man i i really hate that i had to um i really hate that i had to take out the trash yesterday i like live you know my trash is really hard to take out my building or something whatever that you complain about something someone goes someone goes god he really thinks his life is harder than like coal miners in West Virginia?

19:29No, no, no. And I never said that. And in fact, go ahead and ask me, would I rather be taking out my trash or a coal miner in West Virginia? Guess what? I'm taking out the trash, you know, like, right. But you've painted this picture and you know, that, that, sorry, I just get so excited, but I'm like, you've painted a picture and I'm like, that's not what the statement is. I will be on threads and I will watch. And it's helped me really dissociate from comments in general because I go reading comprehension out the window, Critical thinking skills dead. Rest in peace. What is that? Doesn't exist anymore.

20:00We're at the funeral. Because I go, that's not what that, the thread you're responding to, that's not what the person said. Now, you have created a whole ton of context that simply isn't there. Yeah. Or, and or, you're responding to something they literally did not say. I actually. It's fascinating. I can't imagine with you being on SNL and like the reaction to that and we can talk about that. But actually, it's funny because in SNL, my first like real reckoning with this thing I'm talking about of people filling in what isn't being said with their own upset about something was actually from an SNL bit after the Charlottesville like Proud Boy whatever the fuck white supremacist thing that Tina Fey did a bit on the show the sheet caking thing where everyone got pissed at her and we're like wow a rich white woman telling us to eat sheet cake about it and I'm like I remember at that time and I've rewatched it since to think about this phenomenon because I'm thinking about like culturally what are we dealing with right now I have rewatched it if you watch that fucking bit poor Tina Fey is in at least in this conversation i don't know tina personally but i'm saying in this bit at least as as what is written she is out loud saying very poignant and critical things from a very i think correct point of view and then eating the cake and so whatever you don't have to think the bit is funny but i'm like people acting like it was like oh just eat cake about it i'm like actually even in the bit she wasn't just eating cake about it yeah there was a whole structure behind it and that reaction has been multiplied over the past couple of years into this place of just like like throwing barbs at like anything that anyone says.

21:28And I'm not even talking about comedians. I'm talking about other individual people online. Anything anyone says, you just fill in the thing they didn't say. So what it's done kind of reverse osmosis is a lot of people who are writing and creating now are covering all their bases and it's getting really boring. It's getting really, really boring because everyone goes, I don't want to deal with the droves of trolls coming at me about something that I didn't cover. and so to your point I haven't rewatched that but it's funny because I was just thinking about that but maybe two weeks ago because I was kind of I was thinking about the point when particularly a comedian and I've seen some of them sort of just like armor against commentary and kind of go I quite literally am not listening to you yeah now you have yelled and cried wolf so much that I actually don't care I'm expecting you to be upset about stuff that I say because you've been upset about stuff that I didn't say.

22:22And I've seen, and I've watched, I go, this is how that transformation happens. You guys do that enough. Someone goes, okay, I don't care. I have earmuffs on and I'm gonna talk into my mic and I'm gonna say whatever the fuck I want. I, as a person who like wants to be empathetic and who wants to, who has said in my personal life that I want to be, I aspire to be an older person when I get older, whose mind can be changed. I think like having, and that seems super rudimentary but how often do we go like oh that person's old or like my mom or dad or they're stuck in their ways my aunt uncle they're 60 they're 70 I would love I would feel like a part of a life well lived for me would mean that at 70 someone could change my mind by presenting information I had not previously previously considered that'd be tight as hell to me yeah um and so but I see how people go okay uh because I want to receive feedback I want to I'm happy to engage in an intellectual good faith exchange but a lot of these exchanges and a lot of the comments and the backlash I can't say a lot oftentimes I see it and I go this isn't even in good faith I don't I don't get the sense based on your comment based on your your post that you even watched the thing or read the thing I get the sense that this is now commentary that is based on like derivative commentary so you're but you're now up in arms because you saw 20 people say a thing and you're like yeah i actually have a take on that and you never went and watched the thing and you never again went is there a world in which this person was not malintended right is there a world in which we i'm i'm i'm filling in blanks as a therapist once told me i'm not allowed to do for guys i'm dating yeah so certainly we shouldn't be doing it for anything else yeah um even though i'm like i know this man is doing and when he didn't say this i know what he was saying what he was saying because i know him we're connected so imagine for people you don't know and are not connected to filling in the blanks is so crazy yeah and so i just think that the impact of that sort of reaction to people especially when it's um unfair and it's not rooted in reality it's not rooted in truth just creates this unfortunate cycle where people are getting upset then the person who has then been the target of that that backlash goes I'm shutting down and either I'm going to retreat or I'm going to double down and now I'm just going to be an asshole I'm committed to being an asshole and it's not beneficial and so I often am like when I see nasty comment I'm like you're mad about something else yeah I'm like something else is going on I don't know your life because this is the internet and like I don't know you this might not even be a real person might not be a real page you're mad about something your husband yelled at you today your wife which is very four agreements of me one of my favorite books which also sounds basic bitch but it's so it's it i remember reading it and being like this oversimplifies life like the preface i was like i'm reading this for and and now i'm like no that second agreement which is don't take anything personally everything everyone does is about them yeah even when like if i were to comment uh compliment you it would simply be a function of where i'm at yeah i'm feeling good I'm feeling good.

25:30Exactly. It has nothing to do with you. And so similarly, I go when people are not making sense, I go, you upset about something and it's not actually even the thing. It's not that. And you're looking for a place to put that. And that's a choice. I wish you would practice a little more awareness. But, you know, and I've been lately going some of these comments I see now as in the four agreements speaks about invitations. And I'm like, this is an invitation at this moment. Yeah. I can engage with you and be at war with you because you're inviting me to, as the book would put it, you're hell. And no thanks, actually.

26:04Yeah. And I have to go. This is an invitation. And like, you know, someone invites you to a party you don't want to go to. You're like, no, I'm good. Yeah. I've talked to a lot of friends, especially in the last couple of years, about what I consider to be the input about you from other people, which obviously the last couple of years of my life has been in an increase because of the way my career is going, which is fabulous, wonderful, and exciting stuff. But everybody deals with this. If you work at an office job, it's an input about you. It could be 10 other people in your office. We all in life have to figure out what we do about, and even in some ways it's not directly about you.

26:39We all deal with signals from the culture about ourselves based on what cultural beauty norms and societal standards are. So everyone at all times on different levels and different ways is dealing with an inundation of other people's input about you, back to you. and I think that when you there's a portal to your soul that you have to choose how who's manning that and who's watching that and when you open it up to praise you inherently it's a portal it has an opening and so when you open it up to the praise you're opening it up to everything everything and so when that praise turns to criticism the portal is open and so when people get really into praise from other people and this I noticed this I felt this feeling for the first time in college when I, you know, I've been fat my whole life, but I was around like very beautiful, out gay people for the first time and a lot of thin, attractive young gay men and, or queer people.

27:28And that they were really getting much of their validation. And this is not to judge anybody. Sure. But I noticed this pattern of like, oh, you're getting a lot of your validation from the positive input being sent to your portal from other people. And the unfortunate thing is eventually, especially in our society, which only values youth as beauty, that's going to either stop, which is the best case scenario, or turn negative, which is the worst case scenario because you've opened the portal. Yes. And so this way that you protect your soul from this constant, and I think perhaps maybe even like most importantly from like societal signals to you about who you are and what your worth is, the way that you protect that is the most important thing because it affects your happiness, it affects the way you're open to treating other people, the invitations that you put out.

28:10I'm trying, even on my worst day, to put out an invitation of like, I would really like everyone around me to feel really happy and good about themselves. But like not everyone is doing that. So a lot of invitations are negative. And the way you protect that, I think, it comes down to like one of the few things that I'm like, this is the determinant of like whether or not you have a happy life. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. And it's hard. It's not easy. Like who doesn't want to personalize a compliment and go, wow, I really, I do look good. Or wow, I am really funny. This person said I'm funny.

28:42That means something to me. but like you say once you accept the praise you're opening yourself up to the criticism and you are vulnerable then to that and it's kind of impossible to engage with one and not the other so you actually have to go i'm not personalizing any of this with my work too i go it's really lovely when people like it resonates with them and that's kind of how i go that makes me so happy that that resonates with you yeah very but it's like thank you yeah remember him like thank you much i can't let that penetrate penetrate my psyche or my heart or my soul because there's been times on snl where i'm like man i feel like nothing i'm doing is working or even making it to air so now i feel forgotten but if if my life's blood and like my lifeline and my oxygen is compliments and people going oh i love that sketch you just did on saturday and like i go through a stretch of like six weeks of not having anything on i'm like dying i'm on life support where's my where's my happy where's my good where's my my oxygen my blood i need that's the thing that keeps me alive that's the thing that makes me feel good about myself and so i'm like i don't want to ever hand over and it's not easy but i don't because you know we do live comedy there's the part of the joy of that is getting to hear people laugh out loud in real time you're like oh it's drugs and you're like okay they're laughing we're rolling we're cooking but it's like how do I go I enjoy that I enjoy that feeling but then I also know to stand guard or maintain or create a boundary um around myself where I go but I can't let that inform me in terms of my own self-worth and my own talent and my own skill and so on and so forth but it's not easy and it's like a it's a you know Kenan said something to me a long time ago and I've said this before but keenan really early on in my time at snl and i can't remember what it was pertaining to i don't think anything had happened but he was just like oh the comments are noise it's noise and so i have his voice in my head that's a good voice i have his voice in my head being like it's noise um you don't have to even the good stuff it's all this episode is brought to you by paypal you know how a mom's bag has everything sunscreen snacks a stapler The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money.

30:59Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. Noise. Noise, chitter chatter. And so as a person who likes to sit in her apartment in silence, I go, that's an easy thing to kind of separate myself from. Like, okay, no, thank you to the noise. but it's a lifelong journey in that regard and by the way not to sound woo woo but your girl is very i know you are and in fact i have a question about that very soon yeah okay woo woo um i'm something i'm like slowly coming to terms with because we never arrive i'm beginning to really understand is like that will just be in process till i die yeah so that's it's not going to be a thing i master because it's like a very human experience well a thing i wanted to ask you about being woo-woo and being in process until you die.

31:58And I'm going to reference a thing that we talked about privately that obviously we will cut if you're not digging it. But you said to me the other day, we were chit-chatting at work about something. And you were talking about, you're like, oh, I mean, I'm trying to stop saying this, but I'm Christian light. And I was very intrigued by that because I grew up in a very intense Christian situation. Not my household, luckily, but my community for sure. and my mom's been on the show multiple times and people know that's not Kelly's vibe but it was definitely the everything surrounding us yeah and I I just go back and forth with like spirituality and like where I feel like I'm at with all of it but I wonder what you mean by Christian light and kind of how you like think about all of that it's interesting thank you for asking me this because I've said it and then I go I've said it I've said it on a podcast once I've said it in conversation with people and I'm like no problem I feel like that is just a concise way to explain how I feel without us getting into it.

32:50And then I heard myself say it on a podcast and I was like, well, now it sounds like you're denying your faith or your spirituality and I don't want to do that. And so... Well, it's funny also, can I just say that like it would hit different for different people, but like to me as someone who knows how intense, I love many Christians. There are many great Christians in my life. But to me, what it really meant, for you to say that to me felt like you being like, I'm Christian, but I'm safe. You know, because there is a context. Well, that's what I mean. That's actually what I mean. And for a while I was like, Like, should I even say I'm Christian?

33:19Which feels crazy, right? My faith is my faith. And I was like, should I even say that? Because when I know what people I love who perhaps don't feel safe with other Christians, when they hear that, they're like, oh, so you don't stand for this, this, this, this, and you're against, but oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I'm like, no. And that is, I'm trying to go, I'm safe. But then I had this other thought that was like, maybe I should just say I'm Christian because Jesus was cool. I'm like, Jesus was cool. And what if we reclaim the name? What if we take it back? I'm like, what if whatever y 'all are doing over there is not Christian and you call yourself something else?

34:02And I say, yeah, I'm Christian. So I've had this thing where I go, wait, what if, yeah, why am I giving up the title to these cuckoo people over here who are not loving? And who are not doing good with it. Who are not doing good with it. who are not reflection of what I think Jesus represents. And I go, oh, I should claim it. And you should call yourself something else. So it's a thing that I constantly grapple with. I am absolutely a person of faith. I love Jesus. I'm spiritual. It's what's carried me in some of my darkest and hardest times. A lot of people will go, oh, how are you so confident?

34:39Or how are you so this? And I'm like, my faith. My faith is the answer. That's it. you and I were talking I thought you were going to say the other day you and I were talking about like me making a big decision and I and how I said I'm a person of faith so like even like my shoulder I dislocated my shoulder and the doctor said I needed surgery and I was like I won't be doing that I simply won't be doing that no I can't move my arm but I'm gonna actually what if I go I'm going to have faith that um and I believe in science by the way I come from a family of doctors. You studied biology. I studied biology.

35:15I literally have a biology degree. I believe in science. So do not. Again, this is what I mean. I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive. I'm a person of faith who believes in science because God made science. It's not confounding to me, but for some it is. I don't know why. That being said, I was like, no, I'm not. If my shoulder was still sticking out of its socket, maybe I would understand, but I was like, I'm strong. I'm young. I'm fit. I was like, I have resources. I have resources. I bet I could not do this. And the doctor kept being like, surgery? And I'm like, yeah, I can't wrap my head around it.

35:51By the way, I have surgeons in my family, so it's nothing against surgery. I just was like, what if I will and manifest that I don't need surgery? So when people would talk to me about it, be like, you need to get surgery. I'd be like, that's for you. You keep that over there. You have surgery. You have surgery. You go get surgery. You told the doctor, you have surgery. Why don't you get surgery? telling me I need surgery even though my shoulder was dislocated. But because something happened like last year or like, yeah, late last year where I was like, when did you become a person who sort of like is so, it's not even, I wouldn't go so far as to call it pessimist, become pessimistic.

36:28When did I become pessimistic? It was more just like preparing for the worst, preparing for the worst. And I sort of, I was like, when did this take hold? where you stop and you go, wait, it's slow incremental changes. And now I'm like this kind of like, oh, this bad thing's going to happen. Or yeah, this is probably going to let me down. This isn't going to work out. And I was like, that's weird. You were never like that. So I made it a point to be like, I'm not, I'm actively trying not to do that anymore. What if I used my words for good? What if I used my words for good? And I, which is, by the way, another one of the four agreements be impeccable with your word.

37:05By the way, the four agreements massively changing your life, by the way. Quite literally, Don Miguel Ruiz. I love you. We love you. That's the author. But be impeccable with your word, by the way. When people hear that, they think that means do what you say you're going to do and not so much in the book. It's actually like, you know, your words can create realities. And this is what we're getting. Woo woo. But your words can create realities. And so I was like, you know, you could use your words for dark magic, for light magic, whatever you want. And I'm like, what if I just believe that I don't need surgery?