Holmes Returns Again

15:30Let me have a moment to take a deep breath, you know? And then the flowers came in and I said, guess it looks like that deep breath ended.

15:39Caleb Hearon:I think my preference would be that you take one day and then you get ahold of me. but if it takes a week and me sending flowers I guess we can do that way as well. It won't always do that. You know that I was actively was really really busy too. Yeah. That was the other thing. I wasn't there was no part of me that was that. And luckily I have nothing going on. You're busy all the time too. So I can sit around and just wonder. There was nothing at all that was me every night like he called me crazy how dare you. You know? It was much more that I was just like we'll talk about this and I wanted to be on a phone call.

16:04You know?

16:05Caleb Hearon:I feel like sometimes when I have misalignments and misunderstandings with my girls I feel like a straight guy in a rom-com. Totally, totally. Where I'm like, I didn't say you were crazy. I said you sounded crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to me, that is like a massive difference. But I understand that if I were in your shoes, it wouldn't feel that way. But I'm just like, to me, I have a hard time sometimes being like, well, no, I meant like the tone and the frenetics of the voice note sounded crazy. Not that you in the real life situation are legitimately out of touch with reality. It's also just a real thing that we have a ton of different types of close friends, like really, and they all communicate different.

16:40So sometimes we really will, like personally, I will be like, this is how I communicate with one person. All my morals and values are the same with all of them. But like how you communicate can be a little bit different. So I agree that it was more of me having to be like, he doesn't mean that you're crazy. You know what I mean?

16:52Caleb Hearon:Sometimes I feel like you guys all communicate the same and then I'm the one who's different. Totally.

17:01I don't think that's true at all. But I do think that a lot of us, you have chosen to be friends with a lot of really, really soft queer women. I didn't choose it.

17:09Caleb Hearon:It really found me. I really don't know that I would choose it. You love them and you did choose. And then you, of course, have Chance and Doyle who are like, you know, then all of a sudden we're hanging out. They're softer than you guys are. They're soft, but then all of a sudden you guys will be like, I don't know, like wrestling or whatever. Like, you don't wrestle. There's a vibe. We never wrestle. Not wrestle. You're starting to remember. I'm like, whenever I come in Chance and Caleb are truly like both. I'm sorry. They're like throwing each other around every time I walk in on Chance and Caleb.

17:36Caleb Hearon:No, Chance wishes. No, but there's a hard, you guys can say something that is biting and it doesn't mean, it's not personal. If you said that to any of your softy girls, we'd be like, okay. Oh, don't worry, we've had growth. Yeah. Me and the boys. It used to be different. Oh, we were nasty to each other in our early 20s. It was not cute, it was not funny, it was not lighthearted. We would throw daggers at each other in a way that was like, why would you say the most hurtful thing you could possibly think of? We were mean to each other in our early 20s. I feel like MeChance and Doyle specifically have been on a real journey of being like, we used to think it was funny to be mean to each other.

18:13Caleb Hearon:And we really, thank God, grew out of that. Now it's like little tiny fun digs. Well, I try to have a lot of, here's the thing. You're one of the fun, you are like, to me, like the funniest person. Completely true. Sorry, we just make sure we get that clean into your camera. Yeah, cut it, clip it. No, no, say it again. Just clean, really clean directly to the camera. Breaking up. it's much more that uh i have had to think like okay uh caleb's like career is this really really huge thing that is like making people laugh in a huge way and it's also it's more than that obviously but you are making people laugh a lot and i am really really really sensitive and so i think being friends with comedians in general i've had i have had to check myself a lot when something comes up that is a really funny joke with like a lot of our friends to be like does does that piss me off and hurt my feelings?

18:57Or is it funny enough that I'm not hurt at all?

19:00Caleb Hearon:Yeah. And I don't know. Do you have that with jokes? Or do you feel like a joke can't really get you in a painful way? I don't know. Do you ever have a comedian friend who they do one and you're like, that you pushed it? I feel like any time someone makes a joke about me, it's like spot on. Do you know what I mean? Like they nailed it. Like I feel like even if it's something, I'm not really sensitive about my shortcomings. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know how I am. I know that I can be terse. I know that I want things my way. I know that I can be stubborn. So when someone makes a joke about that, I'm like, well, yeah, that's how I am.

19:30No, no, no. Remember when I joked about your rigidness? And you were like, don't not be joking about my rigidness because I worked on that for you.

19:37Caleb Hearon:No, that's not what happened. What happened was, that's what happened is you said that I was rigid after I had, you said that I was rigid in a way that it was. I said you've been working on your rigidness because you told me you had been. You said that I was rigid and then I reminded you that I'd been working on it is the way I remember. I said harsh, and then you said, I've been working on my rigidness, and I thought that was a really cute way to say it. So then we were smoking. Oh, yeah, you did say harsh. That's way worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it was. Yes. You said I was harsh, and I said, I have been working on that for you.

20:04And they were smoking weed one day, and I said, I love you without your rigidness. And you go, do not be mocking the rigidness now. It's pretty sweet. I think both of us work on the things that, I don't know, we just really care about our friendship. It makes me feel happy.

20:15Caleb Hearon:I care about your friendship more than anything. I care about your friendship so much. I have a question for you. Ask me now. Which is that. And it better be good. Fingers fucking crossed. Is that, do you feel like, because as you know, like I've, I've now learned like, okay, you could be doing this for years and years and years. And I like, I'm seeing the podcast and I love collaborating with you, but I am back. Like I have this weird thing with podcasts that, you know, and it's been like rude when I've like said no in the past. I just want to be clear. I don't know that this can go on for years and years and years.

20:42Okay. Well, I think it will. I think I would love it.

20:45Caleb Hearon:I hope everyone keeps listening. This is a dream to me. Literally cut that diner girl shit. We love you to death. But yeah, cut the diner girl stuff. no, I legitimately don't know. I don't know how long this can last. It feels like very precarious to me for some reason, but I'm going to be here until it stops. I'll say I believe that it will for a long time. And I really, really love it. And I am someone who like gets anxiety being on podcasts, but then I'm like, I love you so much. And I also want to collaborate with you forever. So I'm like, okay, this is something that I want to continue to get better at too.

21:14And I'm curious, like for me, I'm so vulnerable and say everything that comes to my mind, super open and honest, as you know, gets me in trouble both ways. where is your line for what you the rules of what you don't talk about on here do you make them at home or do you ever catch yourself being like that was more vulnerable than I wanted to like do you have like a hard rule of what is just yours it's like a big balance I feel like it's

21:35Caleb Hearon:a constant balance the reason I don't feel anxious about this is because we'll always edit like and I'm happy to say that like there are totally times we get into a conversation with a guest that we go for 10 minutes on something that I'm like both of us were just either not compelling in that or we were too vulnerable or we said things that will be willfully misconstrued by morons on the internet like there are plenty of times that i'm like that was actually a really interesting conversation that i would love to have in public but a lot of people are are um looking for reasons to be upset and are frankly just not that smart yeah and so i'm happy to cut it like i just you can't trust a huge group of strangers to always give you the benefit of the doubt and treat you like you're a kind and loving and smart person who's trying your best.

22:17I know.

22:17Caleb Hearon:So there's a balance between being a little bit tight with the things you don't want to be super, super open about. I try not to use people's names when I tell stories. I try not to this, that, and the other. And then there's also the fact that we just can edit because it's an edited thing. Okay. I love that. It's beautiful. I'm trying to come in in more of that open kind of way. And also there's a part of it that's just making peace with the fact I feel like the job of my creative career over the last several years has been making peace with the fact that no matter what you do, people are going to lie about you and dislike you.

22:47I know.

22:47Caleb Hearon:I have seen things about myself on the internet that are so far from reality. I've seen things, obviously the things that hurt more are the things that are closer to reality. Like when people say things about me that I'm, you know, insecure about. But I see people say things about me all the time. When I wore the Ice Out pin to the Devil Wears Spotted premiere. And they flagged that shit so fast. I saw it and then immediately it was taken down on all the apps and you were saying like really good stuff. What do you mean? When you like, when someone asked you about it and you were literally just like, yeah sucks that we're obviously paying for people to like literally haunt immigrants and then it was really immediately and like i saw like 100k likes and then i went back on instagram had taken it all off oh interesting i didn't notice but i there were there were i saw people uh in like a comment for that because that was one that i did read the comments on because i was like i wonder how people are receiving that like i know how i felt about it i don't care i made the choice but there were like there were like not a small number of comments of people being like another out of touch celebrity who does nothing to help but wears a pin and thinks they're doing something.

23:44Caleb Hearon:And I'm like, that just, even if you hate me, isn't true. Like, that just is false. I even say in the video that I don't think wearing a pin is doing something. There are so many demonstrable examples of other stuff that I do. And so you're just like unwilling to look into this. You just want something to complain about and you're a fucking moron. And I disagree. Because first off, you do a lot of stuff that is a lot larger than wearing a pin. Which is fine. But I will say it actually did do something because they wouldn't have asked you about ice and you wouldn't have talked about it if you weren't wearing the pin.

24:18Caleb Hearon:And the videos of me talking about it got tens of millions of views right away was a part of a conversation like it's not doing nothing. But it is also coupled with other stuff. But my whole point in this is not like a great job. Caleb had on the back. I don't care about that. My point is just like no matter what kind of person you are, if you exist in a public manner of any kind. And this applies down to even the smallest things like even just like interpersonally. in your life if you don't have a public career you can be the exact kind of person you want to be nine days out of ten your whole life and there will still be people that catch you on the one day or that just saw you on one of the good days and just decided that they didn't believe it and it you just can't worry about it I know I I have um I'm just really really impressed with how you handle it and it's definitely my uh thing that I want to and will continue to work on with like I want I don't want to be on the internet that much you know that but I want to do your podcast because I love you and I love this podcast and so I want to be more okay like yeah like uh when people getting a bunch of people seeing you in one type of way and then knowing like on another day I'm in a different mood and just knowing like no one will ever really really know me except the people in my life but this is still exactly who know me well and beyond that I think for all of us like as human beings like people who aren't you know fucking comedians or podcasters or whatever like people listening to this who you know don't have like big followings on the internet or something good for you most people yeah seriously celebrate celebrate to have fun with it yeah um I do love it I love my job I love my life I'm so happy with it but I think for all of us like the things that I think about all the time are like when you ask like really old people the things they regret the two things they say are I wish I would have worked less and I wish I would have cared less what other people thought that's like the biggest examples of what they say and I think just like living your life dictated by what people are going to say about you is just really miserable you just shouldn't do that i know just try to stay out of that as much as you can and be like i'm just gonna do what i think is right and i'm gonna be nice to people and live the life i want to live around the people i want to be around and if there are people out there who don't like me for it fuck them yeah and that they'll never really know you the people around you will really really know you and just fuck them it doesn't matter they're miserable like people who sit around like uh casting aspersions and and being intentionally obtuse about people that they barely know in any context are just miserable, unimportant people.

26:37Caleb Hearon:You just don't need to worry about what they think. I know. You got to do your thing. I know. I felt like two things during that. When you're talking first off, I said, God, some of the old people I know are so scary because they were not saying the right lessons. Really, some of the old people were like, you know, high school is your glory days. And I was like, that's not true. That was 80 years ago for you. Super scary. Yeah. And then also the thing that I really thought about was like, it makes me so sad that when people don't care or try at all to make the world a better place like zero zero no one throws shade for the most part they don't get that much shade about that where I watch my friends who actually do actively try to like care the most and do like action-based care not just like speaking out which is still really important um and they really do get the most hate so I think it's one of those things of like yeah don't let it make you stop you know yeah when you choose a life of trying in any regard then you're seen as somebody who's trying for something and so then you're inherently vulnerable to the criticisms of people who know that you're trying something as opposed to people who set up tension-free lives where nothing is expected of them you can hit the mark every time when no one's expecting anything of you you can always hit that mark i love when people try my favorite i love trying i think it's amazing me too i love trying i love trying too and it was like honestly i feel like did you struggle with some things with or how are you with practice do you think you're good at bad i'm bad at being bad at things i feel like i'm really bad at being bad at things and I'm working on it's a lifelong project for me same I hate being bad at things it's so annoying it's like what do you mean I'm bad at that it's like what do you yeah what are you fucking talking about let me do it let me do it right now I know I love it and I want to be good at things right away I hate it's really really hard but I try I'm trying anyway I'm gonna get a lot better at that too I was really really bad at practice and then it'd be like okay yes I'm bad at that and then I was just like you're good at practice I've been it's I could say for the for the past four years it's been something that I've like really really been like like I was bad at auditions I was like okay you have to practice you know and then growing up I wanted to play instruments really, really badly.

28:27And my parents were like, you don't practice. And Candice does. And so then they were like, we're not paying for lessons. But I would just want to go back to the lesson and be like, I did it again. And I just think it always felt, yeah, practice felt really boring to me. And so I've had to learn a lot of ways to make it more exciting.

28:43Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Practice is hard. But yeah, trying is beautiful and exciting and awesome. Trying is beautiful, exciting, and awesome. Okay, wait. I got one for you. What's your favorite body of water? Say three reasons why. No. It's really important. I'm going to skip that. because I had one for you and I don't want to answer that. Sorry. No, I'm not answering that. No. I don't have a question for you. And that's something you can try out. Just someone asks you a question? No. No, I'm not doing that. Next. Let's see if I say yes or no. Let's find out. I'll think on the body of water, but before I answer that, I want you to think you know it's a lake because I'm not a beach guy.

29:13Caleb Hearon:But I want to hear the three reasons why because it's size of something. I'm not a beach guy. Lakes are better. But before I answer the water thing, I want to ask you, what do you think is the time that we've laughed the hardest together? like really laughed the hardest well one is a story that is something that's also hard there's so many that we can't say one is that one is that dude's name when we were with Devin Walker and we truly

29:40Caleb Hearon:we can find a way to tell this though there's just no way that it will be it's not funny we tried to do it once I feel like I feel like we tried to tell it once one was like one was yeah one was We laughed so fucking hard at that. This sucks if you're listening to this. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The listeners, I'm so sorry. I know. That's not a good one. Basically, let me try to tell you. It won't be funny to you guys, but I'm going to try to let you in anyway because I know what we just did was so annoying. I know. We were hanging out with a bunch of comics, and Holmes was basically saying that they were distressed because they felt like, you felt like you had wronged this person, this comic.

30:11Caleb Hearon:You felt like you were on the bad side of this comic for some reason. There's so many, there's so many details I can't do, but basically it's just as someone that I, it was just someone that I really, really loved, is close to someone who I thought was a loser. Yeah. And basically, Holmes was, like, telling everyone at the table confidently, like, it just really sucks because, like, everybody knows this guy, and if we're on his bad side, like, it would, like, really suck because everyone knows him. And literally then we're like, wait, who is it? And then Holmes said the name. It's a very funny name.

30:39Caleb Hearon:And everyone at the table was like, who? Yeah, Chance was there, and everyone at the table was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Nobody's ever heard of this guy. It just set off. And then we just kept saying his name and laughing until we cried. I thought I was going to throw up we were laughing so hard. Because it just was one of those things that it was like, it really was like one of those ones that didn't even deserve this big of a bust, but it did something to us that was so visceral. And those are my favorite types of busts. The person's name was really funny. And then we also, I think, started laughing because we were like, if there is a room somewhere where people are just repeating our name and laughing until they cry.

31:12It's the meanest thing that could ever happen. It's the meanest thing that could ever happen.

31:15Caleb Hearon:But we weren't actually being mean to him. And we were actually kind of being mean to you.

31:21Fully, fully, fully.

31:22Caleb Hearon:We were like, what are you talking about? Fully, fully. And then we were being mean to ourselves because we were like, oh, this is actually not even funny. The fact that we're still laughing is stupid. And then we just kept crying. But that's when you laugh the most is when you're like, this is dumb. Why are we doing this? I'm trying to think of like a physical one or whatever. What can you think of one? I mean, we bust all the time, but it's like, I do think it's, that one was like where we were really, really sobbing. It's funny because I try to think of this sometimes in general. Like I try to think like what are the biggest laughs of my like last month or year or life.

31:49I remember after that I looked around the table and I was like, because we really probably were 10 minutes. We're laughing like we were in a lot of physical pain. Yeah. And then I was like, how often do you guys get a laugh like this? And you were like once a week. Yeah. And I remember being like, that's amazing because I have periods of life where I'm like, it's been a second. And I definitely think even more of adulthood, like our time in high school and in also improv days, I was like, you know, crossing my legs to pee laughing like all the time. where then like things do get a little more stressful and you're a little bit more like it's like I still laugh all the time.

32:18And I think it's also that we're at comedy shit all the time. So like my whole relationship with laughter has changed with like what tickles it, you know? Yeah. But so it has to be almost something that can be so surprising and like random as fuck that gets it to be so heightened, you know? Because we see like the funniest people talk all the time.

32:34Caleb Hearon:Yeah. So I'm laughing like ha-ha a lot. But one where you're like sobbing, sobbing. My mom growing up, one time my mom was driving growing up and I, so my mom pees her pants when she laughs really hard. shout out really cute and one time when I was growing up I was sitting in the very back of our minivan and she put on the brakes too hard and I had my seatbelt on and I flew forward and I hit my like face like it was like pretty scary actually but in her rear view mirror she just saw me flying and she thought it was so funny I was like fully hurt I love your mom she started laughing so hard that she had to pull over because she was like gonna piss and I was just like truly like my eye was like shaking or whatever you know what I mean I mean I was ultimately really okay and like I love her so much but I just remember her pulling over like three times in my childhood to like pee laugh like that and it was really really like made my childhood a lot better yeah was Kelly a big laugher my mom yeah my mom's a big laugher she's I I my mom is kind of she's not a hard laugh to get but my mom is like very get a big one she's discerning yeah she's like my mom is a fun person so she'll like giggle at anything but to get like a crazy big laugh out of my mom, it takes a little work.

33:43Yeah.

33:44Caleb Hearon:It takes a little bit of work for sure. And that's why you're really good at it. Well, I think there's something to it. Yeah. I think there's definitely something to that. There's something to it. Do you have, what was your last huge one that you had? My last huge laugh? Is this fucked? I know. I can never remember them. This is the thing. I think about all, because I really do all the time have great big fun laughs. Me too. But I'm like, what is my most recent? It's that we're like, I'm holding them in a lot too because it'll be like on a show or something. Like I'll be like, try not to break or try not to, I don't know.

34:11Caleb Hearon:I really don't know, and I'm so sorry that I, like, I'm trying to think of more times with us even. We had in Chicago some really, really good ones around at what cost when we were running that show. Totally. We cry and laugh about shit all the time. It is like, I'm like, is it because we're so busy or because I'm like smoking weed that I'm like, then they come and go. I feel like though our biggest laughs always, our biggest busts are not from, I feel like they're actually not smart humor normally. No, they're never from something that matters. It will be like a fucking noise or something. Wait, that fucking gets me.

34:42See, it will be literally a noise or something fucking random. Like, oh my fucking God. I just thought of one. I just thought of one. I just thought of one.

34:48Caleb Hearon:Hope it's a good one. Okay, wait. This is one. So before I went to film season two of Overcomment City, I stayed. The sublet was up. And so I stayed at the Chelsea Hotel. I remember this era. I stayed at the Chelsea Hotel for like a couple nights, which by the way, really, really, really fun and beautiful. Really haunted bathroom for sure. um but uh it was carly and you came over and then met up believe if that's not i don't know and then uh the three we were all hanging out and then what had happened is this is so expensive like i don't have the money to pay for that like the hotel was so expensive it was like truly like basically paying rent for a couple days yeah and uh i had earlier in the day when i just had carly in and we were just chatting a neighbor came over and she was like she literally looked like a queen or something like she was like 107 and she was like i'm being loud you know and i was like i'm just talking to a friend and like I paid like a thousand dollars to do this you know and so I was like okay and I was just us talking earlier in the day but then we all like smoke weed and hang out like later in the night it's like 3 a.m and we come back into my place and I'm like you guys we have to kind of whisper because she had got mad at me at like 3 p.m right and then I forget how it came to it but somehow we started talking about playing trumpet and we all started picturing if all of a sudden like we're already whispering and being kind of noisy or whatever and she's whatever if that and we know she's over there we've been like laughing for like an hour and we know she's already in bed sort of like you know wanting to come over and then i brought up i was like i just pulled like if we out of after everything after everything i start playing a fucking trumpet right now and then it got us so much we were smoking of course but then we were sobbing because it was like we already knew she was at her like last she was just in bed waiting to come and then we cried and then i think we did like a seven minute riff on like what else we could do in the room to make noise.

36:30Yeah, it was trumpet vibes.

36:31Caleb Hearon:Yeah, and of course the whole time we're like whispering. We were whispering, yeah, but that was a really, really special night. That was a really special night and a really good one. Yeah, yeah. Really good one. I didn't get you to bike on that during that time, but I got you to bike. I've been getting me to bike a lot and I really need to get a helmet like really, really bad. I don't want to die by bike. You've had a thing where you're just like, I could die anytime now, so let's just go. I'm not going to live my life doing, I'm not going to live my life in any way where I'm like, this could kill me.

36:54Caleb Hearon:It's like, anything could kill you. That's a miserable life. I'm going to have fun and enjoy myself and when I go God I wonder what happens but I'm not going to worry about that. I know. I've been really reading stories lately where they're like the people who die for like three seconds or whatever and someone comes and like. What have you found? Well I found that a lot of kids apparently like when Oh I'm so fucking tired of this. Okay good. I'm so fucking tired of this. I'm so fucking tired about hearing about kids connection to the afterlife. I think they're just kind of dumb. Their hands will apparently raise to something or they'll be like I'm coming.

37:24Caleb Hearon:What? But I think they'll say stuff. They'll like say stuff out loud. Sorry, yeah, what stories have you heard? I mean, this is just me like, you know. Does their hands raise up? That tells me nothing. It says that maybe something's happy. I mean, if it was bad, you'd probably be like, right? You'd probably be like, I don't want. That's actually a great point. Yeah, like the fact that they're like, that's kind of like sweet, you know? That's actually a really great point. I think I don't hate that. I don't hate that at all. Or they're inherently evil and the devil comforts them. Yeah, and that could be so real too.

37:49I mean, if God is what we were taught, the devil will comfort me as well. If God is what we were. if god is like if god is like don't be gay all this kind of stuff i thought about it a lot when i was like because i had my friend like recommit his life to god and stuff like that you know after he came out in high school it was like a really hard like i i just really really thought a lot about like okay if this is the actual afterlife and like god doesn't like gay people and like doesn't like us like having fun and pleasure we'll probably meet and we won't vibe could you imagine

38:15Caleb Hearon:that just feels i guess it's totally possible but it just feels like i don't think it's possible at all what a wild thing that's crazy i really am like sometimes i think about what if christian God is real and he really does hate gay people and I really did fuck up by doing the whole gay thing. Yeah, and then you have to submit so I guess we won't get along. It is crazy. When we not get along, I'll be in the fiery lakes of hell, but like also I'm just like I'm just like that's crazy that I really did trade in eternal bliss for like 50 years of hot sex. Worth it. That is crazy. Not worth it at all.

38:50Caleb Hearon:Yes it is. Half the time I regret it when it's over.

38:56Caleb Hearon:Comedy royalty Kate McKinnon returns as Queen Mortuana in Heads Will Roll. Air Apparent, the highly anticipated sequel to Audible's fan-favorite original comedy series. She's flanked once more by co-star Emily Lin and a new star-studded ensemble including Richard Kind, Laurie Metcalf, Jimmy Fallon, Megan Mullally, Sam Richardson, and Carrie Coon plus an extensive cast of other comedy greats. Queen Mo is back on the throne in Air Apparent and facing her greatest challenge yet. Produced in Air, before her 40th birthday or lose everything and spend eternity as keeper of the menstruary. Part medieval mayhem, part razor-sharp social commentary, Heads Will Roll, Air Apparent is a fantasy comedy for the ages.

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40:42Caleb Hearon:Download the built app and join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com slash so true. That's J-O-I-M-B-I-L-T dot com slash so true. Use our link so they know we sent you. This episode is brought to you by booking.com. Folks, we all work hard and deserve some rest and relaxation. Well, it just depends on how hard you've worked, and I don't want you guys to get any ideas. But I love clearing my calendar and going vacation mode when I can, and booking.com is here to help you do the same. Picture this. You're sitting in the backseat of your office carpool car in bumper-to-bumper traffic wondering, how did I get here?

41:17Caleb Hearon:How did this happen to me? How is this my life? Derogatory. At that moment, you open your phone to booking.com. The next thing you know, boom! You're sipping on a Mai Tai on the balcony of your beachfront hotel in Miami. The sun on your skin, not a care in the world. Again, you think to yourself, how did I get here? This is awesome! Positive connotation, but with a smile on your face this time due to the positivity. And the answer to that question, booking.com. That's how they make the entire process smooth and simple. Smooth and simple is my nickname in college, Nicole.

41:53Smooth and simple to get you on to your next great adventure

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43:18I just think I believe so extremely that there's no way because I actually do feel more spiritual. I'm a lot more spiritual than I used to be.

43:24Caleb Hearon:You are. Yeah, and it really, I actually feel like I get like little, I feel like people who have died, I feel their energy sometimes. I feel energy from trees. I feel the other day I was telling you and Aiden, I know, I know how you feel about it, but I was telling you and Aiden the other day how I was like, I need to start carrying Neosporin on me. And then the next thing, because I...

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44:57Caleb Hearon:Why does being around your family make you regress into your worst self? And how do you tell your roommates that you have other friends? FX is adults. All episodes now streaming on Hulu. It was like sometimes people just have like a cut or whatever that gets way worse than it has to because they're unhoused or whatever. And I like, instead of just having food. You did tell us about this. And I was saying that. And then the next day, this guy goes on the train. He starts screaming, crying at all of us. He, the only medicine he says, he's like, I just need some Neosporin. I said, now that has to be a little.

45:26Did you have some on you? No.

45:28Caleb Hearon:Okay. So that felt horrible. But you know what I did do? It's in my bag now. I went and bought some right after that because I was like, that was me re-roasted. And sometimes I wonder if that's like a friend who died. Cold comfort for that guy, I'm sure. Well I felt horrible I wish I could find him Nice that you can help The next victim No I know Of course I felt horrible I was like tearing up You know what I mean I was like I was just playing Well because it fucking It's insane that we've gotten To a place in society That someone can be screaming Crying for help And that all of us are like If I helped every single person Who did that There would be no part Of the day left It's like that's fucking insane Yeah I don't know There's just so many things To try and fix you know No totally If you really stopped All day long I helped this woman Cross the street the other day It took us about 30 minutes To get across You told me about this and then she needed to get back across and you let someone else do it.

46:08I said we pass it forward.

46:09Caleb Hearon:Yeah, we pay it forward. We pay it forward. We pass it on. What happens when we die, do you think? Heaven, hell? I think that we, I don't have an answer for it, but I just think that it will be like nice. Where are you at with God right now? I wish that he wasn't so tied to, look how I did that. I wish that God was not so tied to he, because in my brain it is that, I do think I believe in an energy that is like a spiritual thing now, but the word God still flags for me. I think it's because so many of my friends have deeper trauma with it than I do. So, like, the other day I said something, like, I was like, God really knew what he was doing when he, like, made you to, like, that sounds crazy what I just said.

46:43But I said that to two of my queer girlfriends, and you could tell they were, like, like, they hated it. And they were like, and I was like, oh, I try, I guess I was having more of a spiritual thing of, like, thank God the universe sent you guys to me. But my friend was like, yeah, he just, like, ruined my whole upbringing. And I was, like, totally 100%. You know?

46:59Caleb Hearon:Annoying response from them, by the way. Like, yeah, we all have trauma. Be nice. Right. So I think that I believe in this large energy. I really, really do. I believe in the universe's energy. And I don't think it's doing all good, but I do think it's really trying to get us to in a big way. We talked this other night, if you think all people are inherently good or bad, and I thought that was really interesting how we kind of ended up agreeing at the end, is that we thought they were inherently good, but then right away they're basically taught to be bad. Immediately corrupted by a world that has removed itself very, very intentionally and distantly from the way we're supposed to be living.

47:37Where are you at with God?

47:39Caleb Hearon:I'm, like, on a journey again. I feel like I go through periods where I don't think about it at all, and I'm, like, probably not. And then I go through periods where I'm, like, I really should get to the bottom of that at some point. Right now I'm on a journey with it again. I've been on a journey with heaven, which I talked about on here recently, or depends on what order the episodes come out in. um god you are with heaven versus like you think people go to different places i think we actually all go back to like one no that's kind of what i've been experimenting with but i've i have been i've been wondering if maybe we don't all go to a good place like we all go to heaven and then our experiences in heaven are different based on internal internal experiences really i think so much about life on earth our external circumstances can be so bad and we can still be internally happy and our external circumstances can be so good and we can be internally miserable.

48:26Caleb Hearon:So what that tells me about our conditions as souls is that our internal feelings are not necessarily dictated by our external experiences. And so even if we all went to a good place that had ideal external conditions, we might be having different internal experiences of that time and place. That's really, really interesting because it's like, yeah, yeah. So I wonder if it isn't like we all go to a good place and people who were evil have a miserable experience anyway because of the realization of what they did with their time on earth. That like you only get to enjoy the love and empathy and warmth in the afterlife that you created with your time here.

49:08Caleb Hearon:And in the case of like, you know, a baby or something that it was only here for a year or whatever, like that, that that would, that they would be as happy as they were. You know what I'm saying? Like that would all, that would all net out for me. God I would like to believe that there's some some force I think there is a force and a power that leads us towards good yes I don't know why it would be a person with a gender and a language and none of that makes sense to me no I don't think the gender I don't think the person at all zero zero zero and I also think I have no fucking idea but I really don't think it's that one and I think most of the time I just try to think about like what are we going to do while we're here and like how do I really really make them this is what I do believe in I do believe like I'm here.

49:48I believe like that we can affect people here. And I have, it makes me really sad when people live all of here for a time that we don't know about. That makes me sad. Cause I'm just like, we do know a lot right now. We know so much. I'm like finally finishing Sapiens. It's taken me like probably 70 years because it's only all facts and I've been listening. So I finally ordered it so I can like read it at the same time. And it just like does give me hope to be like, okay, the scientific revolution, when that happened for like 2000 years before that, everyone was like, this is kind of how things are going to be.

50:16Cause it was the same for like 2 ,000 years basically like how humans were doing everything and then the scientific revolution happened and like everything changed massively after 2 ,000 years and I'm like we know so much now like we know so much and I'm like we can make stuff so much better still and so for me I think my focus like I the only time it goes to more afterlife is sometimes when I feel like a weird energy thing where I like then I will be like hmm that's interesting and weird but for the most part i think the energy that i think about is just like yeah trying to be right around me and what can we do right now yeah i don't know what do you think it's the biggest thing you need to learn right now spanish always you've been really on your spanish though are you not learning i do learn it but i mean i mean i also think i need to i think that what i am learning is spanish always and then also uh to always try even when i fuck up always always always because sometimes i do like uh sometimes i just get really i do get affected and wiped out in a way of like oh it's really hard that when you try you can mess up and fail and i want to like yeah just keep straight i want to never stop trying new ways to make things better like with ai so ai right now it's really interesting all the people who not all the people a lot of people who were telling me this is like hating it to the extent that I do and hate isn't such an extreme world like I don't hate these if these are sentient robots or whatever I hate you I just really don't want you part of our world right now it's making things really bad and like literally like a family friend right now like her electricity bill is like basically like she has to move out because of a data center that has got built by her we know it's like killing like turning all the water brown we know all these things and And a few of my friends who used to be really against it have been now like, well, it's just like a bipartisan issue, like not a bipartisan issue anymore.

52:08And like I've been like, I've just started to be like, well, if it's going to be around, like it is here. Like I was just talking to someone last night. Well, now it's here. So like even if I can just use it like a little bit in this way or like I'm making this art piece that like really like makes us think about what it is. But I'm using it to make it. And it is starting to make me feel like, am I just like this cranky grandpa now? and it's like but then I'm like I really don't want all these people to move out of their fucking houses that are already like oftentimes people who are more poor you know what I mean and it's like uh I really really think it's so bad for us and I really think the solution is not that we have to be like AI is here forever now I really believe that and so that's something I'd like to get better at is convincing people to not to really be like we don't have to do this

52:48Caleb Hearon:at all I also think there's a big difference between look somebody who can't afford to go to the doctor using chat gpt to figure out what's going on with their symptoms yeah there's a difference between that and using it to make art if you are somebody who's using chat gpt to generate videos images art um to generate text in an artistic capacity to write for you you are not somebody who deserves to be taken seriously that's just that's just how i feel about it and people can do all of the hemming and hawing and hedging that they want to do about like well that's how people talked about the radio and the computer and like, look how silly they look now.

53:24Caleb Hearon:I don't care. I'm happy. If I look silly in 70 years, because I said you're a brain dead fucking loser for making art with AI, that's fine. I'll just be somebody who looks silly in 70 years. I really don't have a problem with that. I'd be happy to be somebody who tried to have an ounce of fucking integrity. Yeah. And for everyone in 70 years to think that I'm stupid, that is completely fine with me. It's you are not a serious person. You don't deserve to be taken seriously. And I've said this to you, like, off the podcast, where it's, like, I just wish, because I'll say the data center thing to some people about, like, how, like, a lot of people in Texas water was, like, all going brown and stuff, which I know is still happening.

53:58That was, like, six months ago when I saw that. Is, like, some people say that, and they don't know what it's doing to water. Like, some people don't know. And I wish that it, I wish how, like, Google just uses it now or whatever. I use DuckDuckGo for my phone, but my computer still, I'm doing minus AI, whatever, on Google. I wish so badly it, like, people could see the violence. like I wish there was like a you know like I'll have a cigarette package has like this is what your lungs will look like or like you can't fuck or whatever I wish it was like you know what I mean like every time you're just google searching something and this just happens naturally like this person is going to get out of their house because I think a lot of people if they knew how violent it was would never use it but they don't I think a lot of people actually are just so busy in their day-to-day life and it's like this search engine I use my whole life is now changed to doing this.

54:43Caleb Hearon:You also just don't need more ways to waste your time. Time is already so... Stolen. Stolen and wasted. You actually don't need to spend any amount of time for an image of you in Sicily riding a surfboard. I know. And the waves are gold coins or whatever the fuck. Whatever it is you're making on there, you have wasted your time, you've wasted water, you have pay your goofy ass friend to draw it pay your goofy friend to draw it or don't have it you don't need it it doesn't make any sense look it sounds like a cool photo no i do think it's like yeah mom's on facebook yeah it's just really silly to me especially young intelligent creative people being like actually i'm gonna make an art piece that asks us to shut up i have so much empathy for the people who don't understand how bad it is right now like i'm i just got back to new york i've been in canada for four months and i see like on the trains as i'm like oh my god since i got back like every ad on the train is for this.

55:42Like I was like, they really are like shoveling it down. But yes, I agree. I'm like right now I'm like, we need to protect our attention and our time in a way that is like really, really sacred. And it definitely shouldn't be like getting to know a robot that doesn't know as much as your friend.

55:56Caleb Hearon:Talking to it. Yeah. I mean, that's another. Talking to it is. That one I judge probably the most. Man, I am so okay to be an idiot in 70 years. If talking to it is considered to be cool. I know. I cannot believe talking to it is nuts. Talking to it makes me feel really, really, really mad. When they're like, yeah, like getting to know her. Yeah, it's like, first off, she's not her. Second off, you don't know. Well, they're all girls to me. AI is all girls to me. Because they're stuck inside. God is a boy and AI is girls. Yeah, God is a boy and AI is girls. Because it's got all the answers. Exactly.

56:26I'm a feminist.

56:27Caleb Hearon:I'm an AI feminist. See, I saw it the other way. Totally. They're stuck in a prison. They can never move their body. They have no ownership over it. What'd you say? They have no ownership over their body. They're stuck inside. Yet still people will fuck them

56:40It's sad. Anna told it. I want it to be clear. Anna told it in her laugh. That would have been a big bust.

56:48But in this one, we'll say both are non-binary. Okay. God and AI.

56:53Caleb Hearon:I'm not doing that. They're all non-binary. I'm not doing that. And for all the people on non-binary. What's going on with your gender? Awesome question. Let's get into it. I'm like, do we got time? Drum roll. You're like, awesome question. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, awesome question. I'm like, I'm like. um no what's going on my gender is that i feel non-binary but i'm completely good with uh she or they pronouns i'm really good with she i feel close to girlhood in the sense that we experience the same trauma growing up so i feel very close to it and i'm seen as girl a lot the other day someone from the back was like sir and i turned around and they're like sorry and i was like thanks it meant the world um but i didn't know that was part of your gender journey well you asked and now you know i'm excited i didn't know that you would ever feel flattered by sir i actually loved learning that about you.

57:36I don't want like a he-him, I don't feel, but I do like, yeah, I did feel flattered by it. I think, but what I will say is that I think that everyone's like taking back non-binary. Everyone's like, oh, people are taking it back because it got not trendy anymore. And it's like, it's not that it stopped being trendy. It's that our government put out literal like statements saying that it's going to be, that it is illegal. Like the Lemkin Institute of Genocide, it's like, there's like a transgenocide, like I think third flag warning for transgenocides. And then all all that fine print, of course, trans people are under so much more, are in so much more danger than a non-binary person who looks, can pass as someone says, you know what I mean?

58:14A hundred percent. So that's why I would never take up space in that. But if you read all the fine prints of all this stuff, it says non-binary, which is funny because our government's like admitting non-binary is real. They're like, they're like, we will catch all the non-binary fakers. It's like, wait. So I do think that it is like, oh, people are going back on this thing, not only because all of you started making fun of it a bunch, but also because our government is attacking it. So all this to be said, I do wish that my gender could be something that was more for me and the people I know to really, you know what I mean?

58:45To care about, because it doesn't feel very important to me in a sense of like, I need to talk about it with hundreds of thousands of people, you know? But it does feel like, I feel sad that the youth who got, had this moment in pandemic and stuff where they were getting to know their body more, a lot of people, and were like, oh, I do feel non-binary. and this has been a thing for like thousands of years, like a third gender. And I'm noticing this because I'm not being under the gaze of a really patriarchal, dominant society for a second. I'm understanding this. And then a lot of them did feel like I have to take this back because not only is it being teased a lot, it's being like truly like put in danger by our government.

59:22Caleb Hearon:Yeah. I think there's just boys and girls.

59:29You're like not even men and women. I don't know.

59:31Caleb Hearon:Boys and girls. I think they're just boys and girls. No, it is funny that conservatives' big thing is that they're mad at specifically trans men and trans women. When it's like, they're picking. Like, they're actually falling into the system you guys love. You should be the most mad at non-binary. Your anger doesn't even make sense. You're not even, like, good at this. No, they're not good at it at all. And I just want to say, yeah, if you're, like, experimenting with your gender, I hope. And if people around you make fun of it all the time, like, get better friends. You're experimenting with your gender.

59:59Caleb Hearon:We love you. And we think you could be they, she, he. You've always been a hard he, him. I am. I really, I feel very connected to boy. I've said this many times. But I feel, I just love trans people. I think trans people are so cool and interesting and brave and awesome. We have like no rights without them. Yeah. I also just love, I think, one of the things I find the most confounding about the anti-trans shit. There are so many. So evil. That I'm like, it's incredibly evil, it's incredibly nosy, mind your own business, why do you fucking care? I just find it so bizarre for a million reasons. But one of the things I find the most confounding about transphobia is this idea, and it's not that I don't know where it comes from, but the idea that trans people are like wokes golds.

1:00:53Caleb Hearon:most trans people there's a very small minority of queer and trans people that are unforgiving, unrepentant like petty and militant every group has their portions of that and they have reasons for being that way but most trans people I've ever met are just like, eh, if you kind of try I don't really care if you're just trying or nice to me, I'm really not worried about it 1000%, I think that's why it makes me so fucking mad when people really, really are like oh you know coming to me with your hard rules it's like i don't no one cares if you i don't want you to acknowledge me at all like i feel like a lot of trans people are like don't even talk to me i just feel like it's so wild that so many moderate republicans i have known in my life are able to see that the psycho furthest right like alt-right nazi right-wing intense militant people are not representative of their whole can't see how that applies to other groups they can't see how most trans people are not the like craziest loudest maddest angriest trans people they've ever like every group has extremes and poles and ends but most people across every group are just like regular people that want to be left alone and get by that's like true of most people across groups yes and the fact that they're not able to see that just is so confusing to me and that like you guys are really more obsessed with trans people than really really anyone else at all i think that makes me i think the thing that like makes me the most upset is that i'm like it's just such a small part of the population and when i do i mean before i went to canada you were getting like texts from me in like a kind of intense state because i was like i because i mean we know in kansas they took away trans people's rights to have a license yeah um and it's like okay this is such a small population and it feels like i just i i think the queer community does a good job standing up for each other i just wish that it could be even i just wish it could be we could be even louder all the time about like uh that's something i'd like to get better at is like figuring out how the fuck to protect all of my trans like siblings all the time like just like the trans people in my life because it you've been doing a really bad job thank you um i don't have enough money to like pay for like it's like it's like there's so many layers of it it's like they're oppressed in the workplace they're not hired for being trans all the time like it's like you know we have friends who had to come out as trans in kansas who weren't out before you know what i mean like it's like which i don't know we if we cut or not we're not seeing names but it's like because of just like am i gonna lose my job now that i can't have a license almost loves you guys caleb thinks about it no i love you guys i love you guys big i'm always going back and forth between whether or not i want to be earnest or tell jokes i i i uh am probably the person on here who comes and does like does the least amount of jokes i'm not very good at doing jokes on here you're not the person who does the least jokes but i you definitely when you and i get together we can get into our serious bag pretty quick do you wish that i came with more jokes of course not okay i think that it's one of those things where i have never been obsessed by the way just to say i have said this many times in the podcast i've never been obsessed with the idea of this being a comedy podcast yeah this i i think it's most of the time funny i have a great time but i don't really care if we have sometimes guests come in and they bring like a really thoughtful reflective energy sometimes i come in and i'm not capable of being silly like this just you we're just people and we're talking and like it's going to be whatever it's going to be we talk about we talked about this the other day i feel like but uh how it feels like if you're a comedian or a funny person and someone sees you not being funny or sees you being earnest they're like not funny it's like oh like comedians aren't funny all the time that would be a psychopath yeah you know it's i it feels important to me to i don't know yeah have earnest conversation it worked i was reading all my childhood diaries you guys got that insane text from me and because my mom literally put into my storage unit without telling me the childhood memory boxes that she no longer wanted of mine so then they showed up at my house um she was like we don't have space.

1:04:38I love her so much. Shout out, Kath. And I went through a diary I had never gone through. And I was like, I thought I would sound stupid. And I was like, oh, the main difference of is that I just sound really earnest. And I was like, as kids were like so earnest. And I do think growing up, it is kind of like, that is a main thing that gets sort of put aside, especially for comedians.

1:04:57Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Play gets put aside a lot. But no, I think, yeah, I, I've never, I've never been obsessed with this being any one thing in particular. I don't care. I don't want it to be this show is whatever I want it to be and that feels great to me shout out something funny that did happen to me was did I tell you when I got a flower for my date the other day and that she started wrapping it with paper that said love you what I was going on a date the other day and I was like she was like running a little bit late so I was like I'll pick up a flower I went to like a store and I got a flower and there was a language barrier and she started wrapping it with like wrapping paper and it said love you but it was a first date and I was like not there yet.

1:05:37Caleb Hearon:Nunca, nada, nada, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like no, como se dice no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, como se dice not there yet. And then she como se dice nueva nueva relationship. Yeah, yeah. And then she like rewrapped it in a plain paper but I was like not me coming for a first date. I love you. I love you. Here's your I love you flower. Taking a flower to a first date is kind of funny. I know. I thought I was kind of trying on boy. That was kind of cute. Boys don't do that. Yeah, come on. Boys don't do that. Not anymore. You don't understand the state of our men and boys. Chances are like, sometimes I'll fart on them right away.

1:06:11Holmes. Chances are like, sometimes I open the door, rip ass on that girl.

1:06:16Caleb Hearon:Don't make chance like that. Okay, I'm sorry. He said, I thought, what do you think flower is? Girl or gentleman? I thought it was kind of gentleman. Boys don't behave that way anymore. Men and boys have totally lost their touch. I did my huge shirt. I do a curtsy. You flower. Madame. Miss. It says I love you all over the flower. Yeah, I'm like, you're stuck with me. She's like, holy fucking shit. You propose. I'm at a point in dating where I'm just being really, really upfront about everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was messaging a guy the other day. We matched. My first message after matching was, let's not mess around.

1:06:48Caleb Hearon:What are your red flags? What did he say? It was great. He told me his red flags. Were they scary? No, he hedged a little bit, and I said that. He was like, I'm opinionated and loud. And I was like, you hedged. Tell me the real ones. Oh, he's like, I'm hysterical to a fault.

1:07:08Caleb Hearon:He was like, what are yours? I was like, I'm really scared of commitment. He was like, good to know, good to know. I don't know if we're going on a date or not. You have to go on a date now. I'm just like, I have no more time to play games. You're ready for kids. You have to get the kids soon. I'm not ready for kids right this moment. I'm not ready for kids right this moment. You need to be ready for kids when I am, because you're going to be the one doing it. I'll be a surrogate. I feel like you don't even talk to a lot of boys. I do. I talk to boys. I actually do. I talk to boys more and more because I'm starting to love more and more.

1:07:34Even when a boy's evil, I have this new thing where I go all to his friends around. I go, don't drop him. Stay friends with him. I need you guys too. That's what I've been telling him.

1:07:42Caleb Hearon:What evil boy have you protected recently? I would never name evil boys names here, but I did. I was having a moment with these two really young boys who I worked with recently who are really sweetie. And I was like, I feel like I have some girlfriends who they'll say publicly a lot. Like, if you find out a guy in your group is a bad guy, you better drop him. he shouldn't be allowed around. Yeah. And I really. It's a big problem in general. Yes. In which I like, I understand like he's your, like you don't want to be in the same place as him, whatever. Get him out of here. Get him out of here. Uh, 100%.

1:08:11Caleb Hearon:I know. Everyone's like, everyone's kind of quietly giggling because of the number of times you've brought up, of course. And what do I say to that? You love. No, what do I say? I would love to never talk about again. Okay. So, so, so, so, but I was to them. I was like, if you have a guy being bad more in like a way of just like, he's kind of a dick or whatever. I was like, in your friend group and he gets in trouble with people, don't drop him. I was like, please, like, try to fix and make him better and heal because the solution can't be what? We have all these guys who already sucked, all their friends dropped them.

1:08:42Great. Can't wait to be their neighbor.

1:08:44Caleb Hearon:Yeah, they're masked up and they're going to D.C. with the boys. They are. Literally, they have 39 days of training. Yeah, it's a fucking disaster. Yeah, we've got to, it's going to be uncomfortable and a lot of people aren't going to want to hear it and we've been trying to have these conversations but this like, isolate them until they die, they should never work again type of approach to society is clearly not working. It's not working. So we're going to have to figure something else out. So I'm on board with that. I'm on board with your analysis. We agreed. We always agree. You never said the lake thing, the three reasons.

1:09:14I had a real reason at the end. I'm not going to give you three reasons that I love a body of water. Fine, we'll do the game another time. I'll tell you my favorite body of water once I think of it.

1:09:25Caleb Hearon:Lake Michigan. Lake Michigan, I love because it's Chicago summer. Lake Michigan. I just love Lake Michigan. I love Lake Michigan. I love the Great Lakes. I enjoy Lake Michigan. I love lakes because you can hang out all day. Lakes are way better than the ocean, and it's not even close. I know. The ocean is totally scary and bizarre. The ocean is scary, scary, scary, scary. Too deep, goes on for too long. Do you have a fish you're really scared to see? Treacherous. The ones that have their own light on their head. The one that's like, ah! And it has its own light from being too far down. Should have never known about him.

1:09:53Caleb Hearon:Don't like that he exists. Did you learn about him from Finding Nemo? Also piranhas. No. Learned about him in science class. Piranhas, scary. Most things that Caleb learned in science class I got from Pixar. That's beautiful. Yeah. Piranhas. No, yeah, I don't like that either. Piranhas are a no-go for me. Jellyfish. Why are you so cute if you hurt us? Crazy. Yeah, I don't like that. The ocean scares me too. The ocean's always scary. Lakes, on the other hand, what a gorgeous experience is the lake. The best ever. I love the lake. I know. I love the lake so much. You can hang out all day. You can, it still feels massive.

1:10:21Caleb Hearon:You can hang out all day at the ocean, by the way. You can't really. When you're in there, because you have to be on guard all day. You can get to do a deep talk while you're swimming in the ocean, right? You can kind of be like, you know, oh, do you have an eating disorder growing up? You know, where it's like in the ocean, that happens. Next thing you know, she's like, believe me, you know what I mean? And you're like under and it's like you can't talk about something real. You have to be on guard. Yeah. Unless you're on a surfboard. Like sitting or something. Yeah. But if you're, you have to be on, when's the last time you were in the ocean?

1:10:45Caleb Hearon:You have to be more. For a dip. Last year. But you have to be more on guard when you're on a surfboard because then your legs are just dangling. If you're sitting on a surfboard, your legs are dangling and they're begging to be bitten by a shark. I'm more scared of the water than shark. I'm scared of it all. I'm scared of sharks and I don't like the PR campaign that's been going on for them. It's like you have to piss them off. And when people have the audacity, punch them in the nose. Yeah. Oh, I would. Punch them in the nose. Like I'm underwater having the scariest moment of my life. I find its nose and then lock in to punch it.

1:11:14Caleb Hearon:You don't have a choice. You're going to die. You'll find the nose. You'll see me dead quick. No, Holmes, you'll find the nose and punch. I guarantee when you get attacked by a shark and I do see it for you, you're going to find that nose and even better if you can kick it because you probably got more force in your legs. You know I got strong legs. I know you do. I really do. I've been proud of them lately. You do too. We both have strong legs. I have incredibly strong legs. My legs never had a choice. I know. There's actually something I need you to help me carry back home. We'll do that soon.

1:11:36Caleb Hearon:What? Get down the stairs. I basically had all these movers bringing way too much stuff and now I have to bring a bunch of stuff back out. Yeah, you'll be hiring a task grabber. I'm not going to come carry stuff down your stairs. I brought flowers today. That is beautiful, but we're too old for that shit. Fine. What is it? It's a huge, like a dresser that was really heavy. You lost me at huge.

1:11:56You guys, I'm so proud of this. I just want to say to everyone, Trash Mountain is about to be one of the best movies in the world. Sorry. I just am so, so proud. It makes me emotional. I don't want to cry right now.

1:12:04Caleb Hearon:You are in that movie. I'm in it for just a beat but it's like the dream of my life and it just like the script made me truly, truly cry so hard. I just think... There's really no guest stars in the movie. There's like the cast and that's it. You're like the only true guest star in the movie. It is an honor of my life, and I just think it's going to be so good. Do we have any info of when it comes out? No. We have some info. We can't say. Mm-mm. Michelle's getting, oh! Well, just look forward to it. I was wearing this, though, in Canada, and this guy, Trash Mountain, what's that? I was like, a movie that you'll see, and I expect a high rating, and then I, like, never see him again.

1:12:38You were mean to him?

1:12:39Caleb Hearon:Why didn't you? I don't think it's good for the movie that you were kind of mean to him. I don't think it's good for you to question my fucking hat when I'm getting a coffee. Yeah, that's fair enough. You know what I mean? You know, I got a new assistant recently. Her name is Svetlana. Svetlana! Coming for you, Michelle. She's replacing Michelle. Michelle didn't want to text me back this morning, so... Michelle, were you just sleeping?

1:13:03Caleb Hearon:Forgot to text me back. Svetlana starts today. You know, I've been watching this documentary about the Founding Fathers. Totally. I finished it now. It's been really weighing on my mind. I've talked about it a lot on here. Okay, tell me something about it. I haven't watched it. I love a documentary. George Washington, after he reluctantly became president, spent a fucking year going to every single town he could go to. And just chatting with people and being like, so what do you guys think we should do about this country? The president doesn't really do that anymore at all. That's crazy. I mean, our president does nothing, but yes, presidents for a while haven't been doing that enough.

1:13:35Caleb Hearon:That's what I'm saying. Presidents haven't been doing that. They don't even hold town halls. They hold rallies where they speak and don't listen. I know. I'm like, what's going on with that? No, I mean, I think that a lot of people called the representatives for their first time ever in the past year. And as someone who would call daily for a while in my life, it starts to even feel like that starts to feel like it's not doing anything. And then they start to go like, well, at least it fills up the boxes. And they see that numbers are calling. But it's like, it would be actually nice if we know someone important is talking to us.

1:14:01Caleb Hearon:Yeah. I think we have too few representatives for too big of a population. We've outgrown our system. The electoral college obviously needs to be abolished. It makes no fucking sense. Zero. It was made as an agreement to appease slave owners, and those people don't matter. We should not have... Like, it doesn't make any sense. The House of Representatives makes no sense. The Senate makes no sense. But when you run for office, it all goes away. Why does Rhode Island have the same amount of senators as California? We're going to have to square this eventually. We're going to have to square it for sure.

1:14:28It doesn't make any sense. I love that you love docs how I do. Basically, Caleb and I only watch documentaries. We don't watch real TV or movies very much.

1:14:34Caleb Hearon:What was the fucked up one that Lisa said to me the other day? Well, you know what I did where I asked my favorite documentarian to get coffee? because we had a similar amount of followers on Instagram. So I was like, who might answer? My favorite documentarian. Oh, nice. And it was one of those things where that's why you can't assign a number to people like that because we were in a similar spot where I was like, he might, but he didn't know what a super fan I was. So then it was like a really scary coffee for him, I think, because he's like Celine Dion to me, you know? And we were just, it was across from him and I was like vibrating.

1:14:58I was like, your work has just like changed me. And he was like, yeah. You could tell he was like, I thought he was going to get coffee with someone to like to talk. He was like, oh. Yeah, he was like fellow artist. And I was like, super fan, you're Celine Dion. and then I was like, you shouldn't build it. It's like message.

1:15:08Caleb Hearon:He's saying he's selling Dion to me. That's really funny to me. Well, I just like think a good documentarian is the best thing ever. I, I really, it's my favorite. It, I don't know. I, what would you make a documentary about right now? If you had a million dollars, it's really like hard because there's things that I think are the most urgent. And then I'm also thinking about like what I, I mean, honestly, I would probably make it about, um, I would try to make it about people obviously who don't have their story shared. I would try to make it about, uh, I would try to make up like KC Tenets and like Tenet Unions.

1:15:39Caleb Hearon:Oh, fun. That'd be a good one. But I remember I talked to Tara about that once and I was like, I have a bunch of people trying to make a documentary about you. And she was like, yeah. And it made me laugh really hard where I was just like, she doesn't want to do that. She doesn't want that to be. But it's like, I think to me, meeting Tara and learning about KC Tenets and Tenet Unions in general had this thing where I was like, there was just so many people trying without succeeding that I'd experienced. And I was like really needing hope. And to me, she's such a doer. And so I like documentaries where I finish them.

1:16:05I love a documentary where you're always going to feel sad for a documentary for the most part. But I like to leave one feeling like now I actually also have hope. And I think that that is what the Tenet Federation, for me, it feels very like this is real change and hope. And I don't like a documentary that makes you just want to die, even though I watch those ones a lot too.

1:16:25Caleb Hearon:Yeah. You know? Do you watch Man of Fear, Louis Theroux's new one on Netflix? I did. I thought that that one was really, really good because it was not about just like that boys are bad, but about how like you keep the internet algorithm is like that. I thought that I love Louis Thoreau. He does one in these Miami jails that blew my mind. But yeah, I don't know. Do you have a favorite documentarian? No. Well, Aiden, Aiden Mayeri, a close friend. She, hers will come out eventually summer 2000, et cetera story. And I like that hers is about like how adults have like lost their play and like creative, like creative spirit and stuff.

1:16:56And I think that another one, if I could make two documentaries, I would go more to like the Gooby Girls and like what are we doing about people losing their goof.

1:17:05Caleb Hearon:You would make a documentary about gooby girls? Yeah, I would. What do you mean? Well, it kind of is in line with my so true. So should I say it? What's so true to you? My so true is that gooby girls are an endangered species. And I'm really, really, really freaking out about it. But I'm going to do something about it for sure, which is about to bus fest August 1, please come Bushwick. Okay. And so I'll say that more. But I really, really am worried about this. I feel like because of the internet, because of our government, because of a million reasons, we are losing goober girls. I'm talking about like, I think the internet has made the younger generations scared to embarrass themselves in a huge way.

1:17:43Like I was talking to this Gen Z girl the other day. She was like, I was like, well, you know that one girl who'd always like fart growing up to make everyone laugh? And she was like, no. And I was like, what? I was like, you don't have a girl who was like farting so her friends would bust at the party? And she was like, no one would fart. No girls were farting. I was like, are you fucking serious? Goober girls are like someone who's authentically them. authentically themselves. And I really, really feel like goober guys, they're still allowed to exist on TV and stuff. It can still be charming.

1:18:07Goober girls, you can't get fucked. You'll see the goobiest girl you know these days and they'll literally be like... And you're like, where's your goob at? Where'd it go? You used to be doing the worm, bitch. It worries me.

1:18:20Caleb Hearon:I didn't realize this was a problem. I'm really loving, I'm learning so much right now. If you really start thinking about it, you'll start noticing that the goobs are really, they're not gone. You can never kill us. you can never kill us off completely but they're endangered and I I really really uh I want us to be doing stuff about it I don't blame anyone I just want you to know like follow your goob and if you're a goob at home and here's the thing if you're a goob you can also be a bad bitch people think this people think it's like this bad bitch or goob there's a Venn diagram you can be in the middle you can be a bad bitch and a goob in a real way I'm just I'm really getting concerned for it because I think without goobs like how are we going to fix all this if there's no silliness if there's no silly there's no goob no play so how if there's a young girl listening right now how does she follow her goob let's say you have a feeling in your brain that you want to make a silly noise but everyone would be like why'd you do that let it out I'm so dead serious like gooby girls you're doing gibberish I'm like it's like that sometimes it needs to come out let's play for once you know oh I have a little dance move gooby girls they dance how they really want to dance what do we have now that's a gooby girl a gooby girl holding back it's i mean i could sob it really devastates me and so i'm just like and i really understand how it happened capitalism it does not like the gooby girl the algorithm hates the gooby girl when you're stressed about money that's very hard for the gooby girl of course you're like how could i possibly be silly my kids don't have enough money for a lunchbox you know it's like a lot of things i know a lot of things are attacking the gooby girl but I'm here to really be like I will never let you die and just like and if you're if you do act silly or goob and the people around you are sort of like run run run run because you surround yourself with gooby girls they're afraid of their goob you surround yourself with goobs you're a goob you're a goob and a bad bitch I think I'm only a goob yes and I am it's specifically why I'm putting on a comedy festival on August 1st for real because I was just like what do I do about this and I was like I just want a day where we get to all be together and have joy and be around other goobs because, yeah.

1:20:26Caleb Hearon:Your comedy festival has upset me. I just don't understand why no boys. I didn't even realize. You didn't do that on purpose? I genuinely was just thinking, like, who are the funniest people I know? And I just, like, made the line up. That's not true. I wasn't asked. I'm, wait, this is super uncomfortable. Are you going to come? I mean, it depends. you get you i'll comp you sorry you can come the second you can come the second year maybe okay i'll i'll ask you to be on it the second year i really will no i know you're so funny you make me laugh so fucking hard i just you said that you asked the funniest people you know and my name never even crossed your mind for your goob fest i'm i'm really really like i i feel embarrassed i feel i feel like i just maybe like i guess i knew the need for gooby girls and non-binary people was maybe stronger or something or maybe you weren't letting your goob out enough who's all in the lineup?

1:21:16We have, well, it's actually funny, because not all, like, I would say there's probably two on there who aren't goobs, but it's because their goob has been broken down, but they're still really funny and their goob's gonna come out the day of. Okay. Some goobs who have been on the pod. Liza.

1:21:28Caleb Hearon:Not funnier than me. Next name? Joe Sunday. Not funnier than me. I think one of the other ones on the pod. Mary Beth Rohn. Not funnier than me. You even have never had Asha on the pod? Asha Ward. No, I love Asha. Not funnier than me. She's funny as fuck. She's so funny. Can't hold a candle to me. Isn't Grace Kulenschmidt on the lineup? Grace Kulenschmidt? Grace Kulenschmidt couldn't hold my sneakers. Molly Carney. Molly Carney, not funnier than me. You want to come this year and next year you'll be on the festival? Yeah. Huge. I'll be there. But that's what I'm doing. I love all those people. That sounds like a blast.

1:22:01Caleb Hearon:You have your... I'll be earnest. I love the festival. I'm excited about it. I love the festival. I'm excited about it. And I also feel I get I do get nervous hosting, but then I always remember how important it is to like do stuff and you've always been a big inspiration with me as a doer. Not inspiring enough to get an ask though, huh? No, I really am planning to be there. I'm really excited about it. I think it's really fucking awesome that you're doing it. If Katie doesn't have her baby right then, I'll be there. Yeah, and if Katie does, you have to go be an uncle. If Katie has her baby, I have to go to baby, I think.

1:22:26Well, I think babies really help people get in touch with their goob so that's going to be really exciting for them.

1:22:29Caleb Hearon:Well, and it's, yeah, if it turns out to be a girl, maybe I can give the message when I get there. I can grab the baby at the hospital and say be goob. Yeah, by the ear. By the ear. Goob, follow your goob. I'm worried about you losing it. They kick you out. They're like, he was whispering to her a lot when you were in the room. Yeah. He was really talking to her in a way that we don't like. Do you feel, you feel in touch with your goober? I think so. Time to time. It's a balance. I don't always feel goober. Do people, do you feel like when we first started being more on the internet that it was stolen for a second?

1:22:56I'm not thinking that. I'm actually genuinely asking.

1:22:58Caleb Hearon:What'd you say? Like it got stolen for a second. I think sometimes when you're massively, like when you're perceived by a mass is when I see a lot of people's goob get snatched. But yours is, I do think you have yours. No, I don't think that happened. I think that, I think if anything, I just wanted to explore different things. I think I was originally doing character videos and being very silly and I liked all of that and then I got tired of it. I got tired of that particular form of expression, but I still have that in my life. No, you're still totally have goob. Yeah. Yeah, and being a goob doesn't mean you can be serious Being a goob is just being authentically yourself.

1:23:34Caleb Hearon:Well, there are people that are authentically themselves that aren't goobs, though. If you really go super authentic yourself, though, I don't know. Sometimes it comes. There are some people that are just like accountants that are just not gooby. And they're being authentic. I did an accountant. And during the workday, she was an accountant. When we got home, she was like, you know what I mean? All of a sudden, some gooby stuff was really coming about. Okay. It's not to say that everybody who's an accountant can't be a goob. I'm just saying, do you disagree that there are some people that are completely authentically themselves that have no goob in them?

1:24:08I think the case is still out. No, it's not. Because I'm really thinking about this. I'm really thinking about this in a real way. Because to me, yes, there's a huge chapter of goob girls, the one who's so much fun that it can be scary sometimes. Where you're at a sleepover and you're like, she has a knife and she's being funny, but she might hurt us. Those ones exist. But then there are really, I do think that a lot of people who have zero goob. I do think it's because they're trying, they have been made so intensely to make sure that they do everything exactly.

1:24:37Caleb Hearon:I love you and I love your heart and mind. You disagree. I just think some people are boring. I think some people are not gooby or silly. Some people are just literally, they're just not that silly or interesting. And that is completely okay. You're like, you're like, you're like, some people are boring and they're ugly and they don't relate to anyone. And that can be beautiful. I didn't say the uglier You didn't say the ugly You said boring Some people are boring And that is completely okay I think that not I think we can agree I think we can agree on this Every boring person Has not had the gooby Beaten out of them Some people were born With no gooby We can agree on this Sure I'm willing to Nice Okay This was so much fun No no no no Will you agree with me though That you're watching Gooby girl get a little endangered Do I think gooby girl Is endangered I think authenticity Is in danger In general And I think certainly that that will impact the Gooby Girl community.

1:25:33Thank you. So it sounds like we agreed. Do you want to shake on it?

1:25:35Caleb Hearon:Authenticity is under attack, and the Gooby Girl might catch an arrow. The Gooby Girl who was shaking ass, like, she's in her bed. You know, she's not going out. I think there are still Gooby Girls shaking ass. There is. I said endangered. I didn't say extinct. Thank fucking God. They'll never go extinct. You want to play a game? Yeah, I would love to. All right, I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. Holmes, if you get 10 more correct, we're going to give you 50 US dollars. I know. I have to go really fast. I'm always bad at this.

1:26:00I'm just not going to judge it this time. Let's go fast.

1:26:01Caleb Hearon:Toronto is home to the Scotiabank Arena. True. True. Pablo Picasso died in 1973. False. True. Mars is shaped like a rugby ball. Mars is shaped like a rugby ball? It's a ball. I mean, true. True. Dale Earnhardt won more NASCAR races than Jeff Gordon. Who's the first guy? Dale Earnhardt won more NASCAR races than Jeff Gordon. False. False. I don't know either of them. Florida State University was founded on January 24th, 1851. False. It's true. And that's my birthday. Carl the mouse was the first mammal to be cloned. Carl the mouse? Mm-hmm. False. False. It was Dolly the sheep. It was Dolly the sheep.

1:26:41Can you imagine her? No, focus. Don't do bits. No act outs. Come on. Dolly and Lolly.

1:26:45Caleb Hearon:The Renaissance started in the 14th century. This one's embarrassing probably that I should know. False. True. It's true. The cube root of 64 is four. True. True. The capital of Germany is Munich. True. False. Berlin. Oh, Berlin? Sorry. Nebraska's state motto is equality before the law. False. True. Miley Cyrus' birth name was Destiny Cyrus. False. True. You should have gone by Destiny, bitch. Destiny's awesome. Latitude measures east to west positions. Latitude measures. When you do the ones that are like actually can make me seem dumb, it's so rude. Latitude measures east to west. Never eat shredded wheat.

1:27:30True.

1:27:30Caleb Hearon:False. Is it longitude up and down and latitude's this? Longitude is east to west. Infinity is a number.

1:27:42Caleb Hearon:False. True. It's false. It's false. Don't do it. Alfonso Ribeiro won Dancing with the Stars. It means nothing to me. False. True. Windy City Heroes closed permanently in 2021. Oh. False, I hope. Say it. What's your answer? False. False. They're still open. Okay. How'd they do? A strong seven. No, really, really bad. One of my worst. There was only one I'm embarrassed about, the Renaissance one. Otherwise, I stand. Nebraska, for a motto, you're not doing very good at it. Hey, say that. Get them, get them, get them, get them. I do love Nebraska. I love you so much. Thanks for doing it. I love you bigger than the whole world.

1:28:26Thanks for having me.

1:28:27Caleb Hearon:I love you more than anything. I asked this time. You what? I asked. You did ask to come on. Because last... Stop. Don't bring up past drama. We got a big fight about that. No, we didn't. We never had a huge fight. Have we not? No. I don't think we will. Until it gets physical. Oh, whoa. Destiny Cyrus walks in. Destiny walks in Tell people Plug what you want to plug We gotta get out of here What I want to plug is August 1st Come to About to Bust Fest You can go to Abouttobust.com Door is at 3 Show starts at 3.30 It ends at like Hard 9pm It's gonna be a day of Truly everyone This festival has made me Bust laugh so hard And I'm also going on tour In the fall Homesick tour To all the states I've ever lived in And also Keep listening to the podcast I love Caleb and Sochu Apple Pay is the simple, secure, and fast way to pay.

1:29:20Caleb Hearon:That's because your credit or debit card is right on your iPhone. Accepted at millions of places, from big box stores to boutiques, you can check out with your iPhone anywhere contactless payments are accepted. Apple Pay is more secure than a physical card because you authenticate your purchases with Face ID before you pay, and your actual card number is never shared with merchants. Add your debit or credit card to Apple Wallet to check out in seconds. Simple. Secure. Fast. That's Apple Pay. Terms apply.

1:30:15This show gives me a reason to live.

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