Lilly Wachowski is Hosting Thanksgiving

32:53And I think that for me, I feel like the only way to counteract that is to make. You have to fill up that black hole, that widening void that is being fostered and is festering in front of all of us is to make shit. make, make your art. And, uh, because I think like queerness for me is like, it's about joy. And so queer artists in their making, that is really about those kinds of stories, those kinds of, um, objects, you know, I think it's that, that's, that kind of stuff is so effective because it, it gives us like, uh, I've been during this past year, I've been trying to, um, uh, I, I've been doing this trans man, uh, uh, refill events where I just, I get together all of every single trans person that I know and that group is slowly expanding and we just go bowling or we go see a movie together or we just have drinks and there's something about just being in that space together that pulls you away from this portal into hell that we're all like looking at constantly.

34:40And it affirms each other bodily. We get to see each other. And like, when you talk about, you know, finding purchase, I find purchase when I see another trans person alive and in this world at the same time that I am alive and in this world. And I say, I see you. Here I am. Look at me. I'm here. I'm here. I see you. And so that sort of stuff is, is amplified in our art and our stories. And it is a way to, you know, send out these signals to each other that we're not going any, we're not fucking going anywhere. And, you know, you can unmake as much as you want, but our joy is going to, those voids are nothing compared to what we bring to the table here.

35:42So. Yeah. Keep making art, young queers. Young queers, make some art. Yeah. Young queers, make some art, please. Yes. Yeah. I do feel so inspired by queerness, especially right now. And I think, yeah, I feel maybe naively, we talk all the time in the tenant union about, um, the belief that things can and will get better. And I do think that, um, it's radical to have hope. And I really do, even though it's really fucking hard, I really do think that we will win, uh, overall. I don't know what path that takes and that's not to diminish at all how hard and awful it might be on the way there. I'm not dumb, but I do.

36:33Yeah, I do have hope that things will get better. And if I didn't, I don't know that I could create anything. And yeah, I just want our art so badly. and I hate that we have such a commerce-driven, like venture capital affected and mimicking industry right now that there's all this talk of like a contraction, but I'm like, there's no contraction. They're making the money they've always been making. They're just not using it to pay people for their art or make things. I do feel discouraged by that, but I think if anything, and making Trash Mountain really lit me up in a way that I'm like, this is the kind of stuff I want to be making.

37:13I actually don't personally have a desire to be making 75, 80 million, 120 million dollar films. I really do want to be making this kind of stuff. I do want to make like sub five indies. I do think that at this moment is where the most exciting storytelling is taking place from my perspective. But I'm curious, how has transness affected like coming out and living as a trans woman? And has it changed the way that you look at storytelling and the way you approach making art?

37:51Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, you know, like I look back, I say this thing where I look back on all of my previous work and I see it because I'm like looking at it from this higher place. I see I see it from it's just like creates this different perspective from my own point of view up here and I can see like bound the first shot of the movie is a closet and it's like okay it looks like we're going to be working on some stuff and And so it starts there and then, you know, you go through Matrix and it's about, you know, liberation and identity and, yeah, like freedom. And like, I mean, all of those things are.

39:05So definitely working on, this is a thing that's cool about making art is that you can will things into being that you need to see in the world to help pull yourself along. So, like, a lot of the things that me and Lana were also writing about was love. That we needed to create stories that gave us a grounding to see that love was possible. Like, as a trans person, the dark question that every trans person, like, has, or not everybody, But the dark question that I had as a trans person was, who will ever love this? And it just, it's like an Edgar Allan Poe story where you're just like cementing yourself up in the closet longer and longer.

40:13This episode is brought to you by Hinge. Look, dating can be a goddamn nightmare. It can be a daunting and difficult thing to navigate. But thankfully, our friends at Hinge are here to help. Hinge is the dating app designed to be, you guessed it, deleted. It's for people dating with intention, going on dates, putting themselves out there. Hinge is designed for finding connections. What makes Hinge the ideal dating app is its user-friendly layout and its interactive prompts feature that allow you to ask potential suitors questions or pick topics to get the conversation going without the awkward ice-breaking phase.

40:45What we hear is so true, the whole team, love the most about Hinge, and we're always bringing this up, has got to be the signals feature, which allows you to see what profiles thoughtfully engage with their matches. I mean, who doesn't love thoughtful engagement? For anyone who might need a little assistance when it comes to making their profile pop, Hinge has just released their new friends take feature that lets you invite the people who know you best to contribute short, authentic reflections directly to your profile via text, voice, video, and photos. Chance, why don't you give them a reflection for me for my Hinge profile?

41:19For you? Yeah, well, give him a, you know me best. Give him a reflection of me. Oh, wow. Great smile, and he always picks up the check. That's actually, yeah, that's actually really nice. Actually, Nicole Clipped, I sent that to me. Next time you're looking to make a connection, do us a favor and give Hinge a try. And so here's me and Lana, and we're like, this story is about love. Love is possible. These two people found each other, Corky and Violet, Neo and Trinity. And it gave us this, it gave us this reminder that we can't, there was a future for us. And so now, I mean, all of that is great.

42:10I wouldn't not make a story or put that in a story because we all need to be reminded that there is love out there. There is love in the world. And And it doesn't have to be like a romantic love of between two people. It can be like just fucking love. And, but I think I don't like have, the things that I'm working on in my subconscious are probably a little bit different than the things that I was working on with my subconscious, you know, 20 years ago. Now I'm like, I think about, like I just wrote this script with Mickey, and it was just a way for us to process all of our trans rage that we have about the world.

43:12And so Mickey's, he was, this project started before even work in progress for me where he was like, he wanted to make something with me. And he was like, I was completely done with movies. And he was like, come on, we can make a story and put some, you know, kick-ass trans people in it. And, you know, they can kick a lot of ass. And I was like, well, I mean, that does sound kind of good. When you put it like that, yeah. And so, you know, this is in 2017, and we were, it was, everything was horrible. And we started, we had no idea what the story was. We knew how it started. And we wrote about 30 pages or so.

44:04and it became this way to just like, I'm purging all this rage and horror out of the world onto this page. And it was great. And then Work in Progress came along and I put it down, Mom and Dad, endless horrors. Fast forward to 2021 and the world is like way shittier for trans people. So we picked up the script again and started writing again and I was like, oh, this is good. I'm going to, oh, yeah, and then this happens. And so, like for me, that kind of catharsis that I got out of

44:56fighting back about completely creating caricature buffoons of the right wing to create an idealized family a network, a weather underground of trans people coming together and supporting each other and holding each other up, trying to create a story that is the best of us. That was like, that was, gave me a new way to like think about what I want to put on the page now. And so I try to like, I try to be a bit more conscious as opposed to unconscious when I'm making work. I would categorize you in so many ways, but maybe my favorite one is Midwest Legend. I'm just like, this is a Midwest legend, dude.

46:18Why, you live in Chicago. I do. How come you're not off in LA or New York or somewhere? Why are you in the Midwest? And how does the Midwest affect your work? I don't know. I spent some time in LA and I grew to love it. It took a little while.

46:40There's something about Chicago. Whenever I come back, it's always, I feel, because it's been here longer, I feel like. Chicago, it's just like, it's got so much history. There's so many people that have come through this town.

47:10I mean, obviously there's like good and bad things about Chicago, but

47:19the best of what Chicago is, I think is that's the reason I'm here. I mean, I think also because I was pretty young, as we got started in this business, going to LA as a young person, I feel like the industry feels absolutely everywhere. And it really did back then, because this is, you know, the mid-90s. And so this is like the height of, like, the film industry. There is, you know, it's before, like, there's been all of these, like, mergers happening. I mean, it was always box office based back then, but you still were feeling like you were walking amongst giants. And it was just, the industry was just felt like it was everywhere.

48:36I mean, it was everywhere because when we would go, we would be like hanging out with, you know, muckety mucks and stuff. And they would just take us to their muckety muck places. and so you didn't get a chance to see anything outside of that.

48:53And to feel that much saturation of the business kind of made me scared. And so I didn't feel that at all in Chicago. I could walk around in Chicago and be just another Chicagoan, anonymous. And so I always came back here. I mean, my mom and dad were from Chicago. My sisters were here. And I don't know. It's beautiful. I like the seasons. There's catharsis in the seasons. Seasons is a big one That was my biggest thing in LA I like LA a lot I had a lot of fun living there I just felt like time was escaping me all the time Because nothing changes And I was just like oh fuck it's Christmas And it doesn't feel like it at all Or shit I've been here for four years What happened?

49:57You just feel like you're in like a I love LA There's so many beautiful things about LA It did not in the time I was there feel like the industry was everywhere It felt like the industry was nowhere and it felt like, why are we all living here to work in this industry but there's no work happening? But yeah, the season thing was huge. I was just like, God, I can't believe the weather's the same every day. Yeah, you get autumn, fall, it gets cold, and then it gets really, really cold, and then you go in your house and you make stew and you warm up your house by, oh, my God, we're going through the polar vortex.

50:34I got to cook something. Make some banana bread. Make that in the morning. And then in the evening, make some chicken stew or something like that. You know, a roast chicken, you know. And it warms up your house. And your house smells good. And, yeah. And then you get to spring and the buds start coming out. And everybody's like running around in shorts. And it's 40 degrees. and that's just uh you know you get that like death and then birth and then life that cycle is like it's a microcosm of what it means to be a human being and i think like in la that it's just different you you don't get that as much and so i mean you get other things like you know fire season and you know floods and just other stuff just other stuff that you get other kinds of death and birth and relight and I don't know why it's escaping me right now but there's a poem about spring that I love not even a poem like a maybe I would call it an article is it who the hell wrote this chances there's a it's called like the common toad like in praise of the common toad or something and it's not Oscar Wilde.

51:55It's like the most obvious when I hear it, I'm going to be pissed off. Is it Some Thoughts on the Common Toad by George Orwell? Yes, of course. It's Orwell. Yes. And have you ever read this? I know. It's so great. It really lights up my love for seasons and there's a piece of it where he's talking about even if they lock all of us away in prisons for ideas or whatever, they can't take away that when it turns to spring, the birds are still singing and the trees still bloom, and we can still see that, and so there'll be joy regardless. And as much as they'd like to take that, they can't. And it's really, really pretty.

52:35I'll send it to you. What's inspiring you right now? What's making you feel good and excited and creative?

52:48Well, Thanksgiving is coming up. Yeah. So I'm hosting. You are? I am hosting. It's a small group, and I don't have a big house. So the group sort of just fits around my table. So I got nine people, and I'm pulling out all my old recipes. Mom and Dad, Thanksgiving was always big in my house growing up. were good eaters. My grandma was an amazing cook. And so all of those recipes get passed down and shared this knowledge, passed to the sacred knowledge, passed to all the family. And so this meal is like, it's super important. and it takes days to prep and plan it. So I'm in the throes of that. Cooking to me is something that I've really used lately as like meditative practice.

54:09And like, so it's, there's something that's healing about it. It's when I make this, I just made this chicken stew for Mickey that he really loves. That is the Cook's Illustrated chicken stew recipe. And it's called the best chicken stew. And it is, it is a labor of love. but it takes it takes me a good part of the day to make and so that's what Thanksgiving is I've started I've started buying my ingredients gravy Caleb is just it's just knockout gravy yeah it's it's own dish it's it's own dish what's that? you told me the other day you're like the gravy is it's own dish. Yes, it's its own dish.

55:09You have to make this gravy stock that becomes eventually the gravy, but you need all of the drippings from the turkey to finish it all off. But you make the gravy like a day or two in advance. Damn. I'm jealous of these nine people. They're living my dream. They're over there having this gravy that's been much talked about. I love that. So we're inspired by Thanksgiving right now. I feel that. I'm excited. My family comes to my house every year now. Oh, good. And I hope they come on, um, Tuesday. So are you having this in your new house that you just could? Yeah. And my new place is, is bigger.

55:54So I have room for everybody, um, to stay cause they come, my family, it used to be my grandma would host my whole childhood and we would all go to her house and stay for like four days. Like everyone stays. Yes. We barely leave the house other than to get ingredients or go on walks or whatever. Like, it's just like we're stationed at the house. Everyone's coming on Tuesday. They're staying till Saturday. And then on the night of Thanksgiving is one of my favorite. I love Thanksgiving. It's my favorite holiday of the year. I love the way it started, the politics of it, everything. And I wouldn't change a thing about the origin or the ideas.

56:29But I love it. I do love it. It's like just, it's the one holiday that my family has always like gotten together for. Yeah. And, yeah, the night of Thanksgiving, it's become this tradition since I've started hosting that, like, a bunch of my friends in Kansas City will come over and will, like, play music, have pie, play cards, sit on the porch until, like, 2, 3 in the morning, gossip. My family is also still there. So it's like, but people just, after they've finished their thing with their family or whatever, they come over to mine and have dessert. Oh, that's so nice. It's the best and it's my organizer friends, my artist friends, my buddies from college and high school.

57:09It's like this beautiful tapestry. It's like one night of the year that I really get like the only time I come close to that is if I have a big show. There'll be many people from different areas of my life in one room. But Thanksgiving, it's like every period of my life, I have somebody there and it feels so I just feel so happy. That's nice. I'm excited about it. It's a very special thing. And I, it's like, man, if it only happens one day a year, it's like, that's crazy to think about. Like one day a single year where you get to do that. It's pretty nice. I'm excited about it. I love it. Lily, what's so true to you?

57:45Okay. I wasn't sure I could come up with a so-true-ism, but then I started, you know, plumbing the depths a little bit. To the process. With your process. Yes. Well, I mean, I guess, like, when I think about art making, it's like I don't like to cast aside art of any kind. I think all art making is, I think all making can be, art is art. And sometimes it's like, it's okay, or it doesn't speak to me, but I think it's all good. If we're all out there doing stuff, that's great.

58:36When I was learning how to be a writer, I read this one how-to book. And one of the pieces of advice always stuck to me. It's a very specific thing. And that is the guy was saying, don't put smash cut in your scripts. Don't say smash cut to this. Just write the next scene. It's implied. What are you going to do? Are you going to hit the edit button harder than a normal edit? And that thing stuck with me for forever. And so I've refined that into this other pet peeve that I have that writers will do. And that writers will put in their script, though, for a scene direction, they'll put the word beat.

59:43and that will be the only sentence in that line and they'll use it to break up two moments of dialogue. And this word beat, I do not like it because I think that it's lazy writing. There's no, you could write anything. You can give, there's so many people that read a script and are using that script to help bring the film to its final form. You know, your production designer, your sound designer, your DP, your actors. And so the word beat is a way for the writer or director to put in a placeholder between two characters that doesn't tell anybody anything about what's going on. And I think it is like a very ungenerous way for a writer to tell their story.

1:01:09Yeah. I like that. I like that. That's a good so true to me. That's a good so truism to me. Yeah, I like that. I also, it falls in line with a similar thing that I look out for when I'm reading scripts now of if someone has written too much of the acting for me, that they're writing like, they go so deep into it that I'm like, are you planning on not hiring an actor you trust? Like, they'll write such granular little things that I'm like. Like what? Like, they'll do like, they'll be like, he takes a pause, looks into her eyes, cocks his head to the right. And I'm like, well, there are times when that level of detail is necessary because you're setting up something so specific.

1:01:51But when it's not setting up anything specific and it's just going towards an action you'd like to see, it's like, well, now you're dictating the acting to the actor. It gets to a certain level at a certain point. And it's a hard thing to pin down. Yes. That I'm like, there are times when that's called for and you can feel it in the scene where it's like, we need to see him look into her eyes because he hasn't done it so far in the scene. Or it's conveying a certain emotion. Yes. That is always necessary. Same with camera moves too. I think like when you're telling the director how to direct. Yes.

1:02:21That's another thing. Push in on this person. It's like all the side. I'm like, really? Are you going to, you're really going to push in? Yeah. No, it's like all the side. It's like. Maybe it's just a cut. I can just like cut into a punch in. Well, maybe it's a smash cut. Maybe it's a smash cut. Whiplash smash cut. Yeah. I love that one. Lily, we have a game for you. A game? Yes. Okay. We've played this game with everyone who's ever been on the show. Okay. It's a storied tradition. It's one of the only things. It's funny. When Chance and I were concepting about this podcast, we had so many ideas for segments, and one of the only ones that we have stuck with is this one.

1:03:02Yep. Not one of. The only one. Yeah. And people would kill us if we got rid of it. We tried once to maybe not do it on a live show or something, and I mean the dismay. Yeah. It's a hit. We're so excited to have you play. This is our true or false segment. Uh-oh. I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said was true or false. Okay. And there's a prize. If you get 10 or more correct, we're going to give you 50 US dollars. For gravy? $50? For gravy? That's some walking around money. For bread? Okay, you ready? I'll do my best. Okay.

1:03:35The Empire State Building has its own zip code. True. True. Winston Churchill's mother was Irish. False. False. She was American. The shortest war in history lasted 38 minutes. True. True. Speed racer debuted in Japan in 1966. True. It's true. Amazon's Alexa is named for a French queen. False. False. It's named after the Library of Alexandria. You're killing this. Okay. Did I get the 50 bucks yet? I want that$50. dollars. Woodrow Wilson's face was on the$100 ,000 bill. False. True. Chicago has a larger population than Iceland. Chicago or Chicagoland? Oh, that's a great question. It's just written as Chicago.

1:04:30I'm going to say true. It's true. A cockroach can live for nine days without its head. that's very specific i'll say true it's true samuel beckett wrote a streetcar named desire false it's tennessee williams carrie ann moss was born in scotland oh my gosh that's very specific too but i don't think so false false canada yes canada i knew that since 1912 olympic gold medals are actually silver with gold plating Oh, that's very specific too. I'm going to say, no, I'm going to say false. It's true. Oh, wow. It's true. We got you on that one. Cheapers. Monster energy drinks were invented in 1989. False.

1:05:19False, 2002. The space between your eyebrows is called the glabella. Wow. My eyebrows? Yeah, just yours. Just yours. We made one up for you. I'm going to say true. It is true. A monkey was the first animal sent to space. False. It was a dog. False. It was fruit flies, technically, I guess, is the creature, the being. Michael Jordan was – That's in that Lossie Hellstrom movie, which is really nice. Oh, I don't know that movie. I can't remember the name of it, but there's this – My Life as a Dog, it's called. And the opening is this kid narrating, thinking about that dog that goes into space. Yeah.

1:06:02It's very nice. I need to tap in. We have one more for you. Michael Jordan was drafted to the Bulls in 1984. True. True. How'd she do? 13. Yeah! That's$50 in your pocket. Might be the best performance we've ever had on the trailer. Very good. It was very good. Wow, we've never had a perfect 15. I know that. No. And we've never had a perfect 0. I did guess at quite a few. I don't have an encyclopedia. It was a beautiful performance. We're all stunned. Thank you. We're all stunned by the performance. I would say our most common is probably like nine. Nine is by far the most common. That feels like where people land.

1:06:37Yeah. Never had a zero, never had a 15. I think once we get a zero and a 15, we'll probably end the show. Yeah. A zero. Once we get both, we'll end the show. Yeah. I want to know who that zero is out there. Oh, you will. There will be someone. We'll make a big deal out of it. Lily, thank you so much for doing this. Yeah. I just love you. I can't tell you. Thank you so much for having me. How much you mean to me. I'm so proud of you. Stop it. don't say that um thank you i i love you so much do you love you too is there anything that the people listening can can do to support lily right now um what can you do to support me i don't know i think just like hold each other up that's all we got to do that's how we get through this keep getting into community and grabbing hold of people and make sure they're staying on their feet that's beautiful thank you very much for doing it yeah love you we did it too that was a hate gum podcast this episode is brought to you by hinge look dating can be a goddamn nightmare it can be a daunting and difficult thing to navigate but thankfully our friends at hinge are here to help hinge is the dating app designed to be you guessed it deleted it's for people dating with intention going on dates putting themselves out there hinge is designed for finding connections.

1:07:56What makes Hinge the ideal dating app is its user-friendly layout and its interactive prompts feature that allow you to ask potential suitors questions or pick topics to get the conversation going without the awkward ice-breaking phase. What we hear is so true, the whole team, love the most about Hinge, and we're always bringing this up, has got to be the signals feature, which allows you to see what profiles thoughtfully engage with their matches. I mean, who doesn't love thoughtful engagement? For anyone who might need a little assistance when it comes to making their profile pop, Hinge has just released their new Friends Take feature that lets you invite the people who know you best to contribute short, authentic reflections directly to your profile via text, voice, video, and photos.

1:08:38Chance, why don't you give them a reflection for me, for my Hinge profile? For you? Yeah, well, give them a, you know me best, give them a reflection of me. Oh, wow. Great smile, and he always picks up the check. That's actually, yeah, that's actually really nice. Actually, Nicole Clipped sent that to me. Next time you're looking to make a connection, do us a favor and give Hinge a try. Have you heard that McDonald's spicy chicken McNuggets made with spicy tempura and a blend of aged cayenne are back? Remember to grab a few extra napkins. For a limited time at participating McDonald's. Brussels clean up nicely at Sweetgreen.

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