Pauline Chalamet Loves The Suburbs

20:20Caleb Hearon:I'm just gonna get a little emotional. That's really beautiful. So find exactly what you're booking for booking.com uh booking.com yeah book today on the site or frankly in the app

20:41are you reading do you read books at all i do read books yeah you're a reader i knew that i think i am a reader um you know less uh with the toddler it's uh it's harder to make time to read You know, you were saying earlier the newborn, they say sleep, like your whole life, the urgency. I didn't feel that until my baby became a toddler. I felt the babyhood was pretty easy. I mean, like every day was something new. But I was just like, you're coming along for the ride. Now I'm like, you're coming along for the ride. And there's a little bit of like, wait, what? What ride? Where are we going? What are we doing?

21:20But so the reading becomes, you know, a lot of like Shel Silverstein.

21:26Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Which I love. You love Shel Silverstein. Yeah. But I just read Liza Minnelli's book. Oh, my God. And I'm a huge Liza Minnelli fan. You're a big Liza Minnelli fan. I'm a big. She is, she's like pivotal to my, like, to my desire to want to be an actor. Yeah. It was like I was in, I don't know what year it was. It was like, I was a kid. And my, oh yes, this is, okay. So I used to, so I was a ballet dancer and I was at the School of American Ballet. But before going to the School of American Ballet, I studied at this place called Studio Maestro on the Upper West Side. And Studio Maestro was like, you went down these stairs and then there was like these three studios.

22:07And before my ballet classes, when I was a literal young child, there would be like older people taking this jazz class with this man named Luigi.

22:19Caleb Hearon:Hell yeah. And I would just like watch these older dancers dance. And then I kept watching this one woman. And my mom once said to me, you know who that is? I was like seven. I was like, no. And she said, that's Liza Minnelli. And I didn't know who that was. And my mom was like, oh, okay, well, let me explain. And she took me. I guess Liza was having like a show, one of her shows. And we went and saw it with my grandma and my mom. And I'll never forget. She went up on stage. She did all her songs. she did like Liza with a Z I never heard any of this and then I remember her saying no idea who Judy Garland is no idea that that's her mom but I just remember saying my mom always said to perform full out even when there's no audience because there might be one like there might be three people in the audience but there might be the one person whose life you're gonna change and so you always have to go full out and that always stayed in the back of my head and I was just like this woman is amazing and I always loved her and followed her since then and I honest to God because I'm also very bad with like things kind of celebrity things I found out maybe two or three years ago that she was Judy Garland's daughter in my head also and her dad Minnelli had like you know directed some of the biggest movie musicals no idea for me it had just always been Liza Minnelli like in the woman who took Luigi's class That's the funniest way to know her.

23:46Caleb Hearon:Because that's the old woman who takes classes at my dance studio. That is so funny. We had extremely similar childhoods. Kidding.

23:56Caleb Hearon:Just hearing you say that, I'm like, that's so chic for your mom to be like, do you know who Liza Minnelli is? You go, no, I'm seven. And she goes, let's fix that. And to be able to go to a show is like, that's the kind of shit that when I was seven and I was starting to learn that kids had lives like that, I started to be like oh my god I wish I was a New York kid or like when I moved to New York for the first time in college and I saw like 10 year olds riding the train alone with like a violin I was like you're so cool that's so fucking cool that is yeah yeah my mom my mom was really big on bringing like shows shows were like like I this I don't want this to sound wrong but it was like it was like

24:43like once a week we were going to the theater, we were seeing a show and it was just kind of like, oh God, like we're going to the theater again tonight. Totally. But you know, but like now I look back and I'm like, oh, that's how I saw so many great shows. Like I'll never forget Bernadette Peters in Annie Get Your Gun.

24:59Caleb Hearon:Yeah. It was like the first time I was seeing Adults Kiss on stage and I was like, this is so hot. And I was like, maybe six years old. but yeah it was really yeah she was really good about bringing us to shows she still is that's the really that's the thing though about being a kid and thinking about kids who had different things than you or whatever or thinking about what you give your kids is like kids are going to be equally impressed and unimpressed in ways that you would never imagine like it's the fucking like getting them some like really expensive gift and they only want to play with the box like you just like you don't know what they're going to be impressed by and be annoyed by and if I were eight and going to my like 10th Broadway show of the month with my mom I'd have been like mom like it just is like yeah it's it's that's just part of it yeah you're like mom I want to go to Chuck E.

25:47Cheese like that was me like I was always so envious of like what I considered I don't like this what I'm gonna say but like the like normal things of like suburb I was obsessed with suburbia we my mom like mom had this best friend from high school who lived in Pelham New New York. Yeah. And on Christmas Eve, she would throw a party each year and we would go. And I loved it. I was like, I was like, I am in a house. Like there is a yard. There is a play set. There is a dog. Like you like, Oh my God. Look like the cool friends. Like they have friends that live down the street and they're like walking over.

26:28Like it was so cool.

26:30Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Um, I was obsessed with like, like suburbia. And now less so. Of course. Now a little less so. Of course. But growing up, I was really into that. I think that's the preferable. I think it's so funny sometimes when people are like, even you being like, I don't know if I like that I'm saying this. I'm like, no, it's the preferable thing to be fascinated by other people's lives as opposed to being like, well, my life is better than everyone's. Yeah, yeah. No, it's the preferable thing to be fascinated by Pallum. I think that's like, that is actually the best way to be in the world. There's like curious about other people's stuff.

27:07Caleb Hearon:It is hilarious to be like, I wish I lived in the walkable neighborhood of New York, but it is. Yeah. I totally, I think that's part of too, like, like a big part of my growth as a person was getting over the like jealousy I had for other people's lives when I was a kid. And when I was like a teenager, when I was like, God, I wish we were whatever. I wish we lived somewhere cool. I wish we were rich. I wish I was thin. I wish all these million different things about my life. Part of growth and happiness is getting to a place where you're like, I am fascinated by all of those things and by other people.

27:38Caleb Hearon:And also, I got my life and my life is great. Totally. You know? We all have to do some version of that. Yeah, it's true. I have a question for you. Go ahead. Do people tell you that you... I'm so nervous. Do people tell you that they feel like they've known you a long time when they haven't? Yeah. Yeah, you really?

28:04We're like here talking, and we've hung out a few times. Yeah, a couple times. I feel like we've known each other a really long time, and I feel like that's such a quality that you have. Because that's like a character trait of like really cool, someone really cool.

28:22Caleb Hearon:Thanks, dude. But also like kind and warm, and I just feel like I've known you a long time. You would not believe the way the inside of my body feels right now. Squirming. The inside of my body right now is like a million little minions running around being like, find a joke. Get us out of this. Go. The boss is in trouble. That is so sweet and nice. I know. Sometimes I wish I was less sincere. Sometimes I wish I was a little more like, oh, be cool. Sometimes I feel so uncool. You think? Yeah. Oh, I think you're so cool. I don't think so. I mean, thank you, but I don't think so. I think that like, like I wish I could be like, oh, funny joke, funny joke.

29:01I can't do it.

29:04Caleb Hearon:That is so funny, dude. I literally, I was, I was, uh, the other day I was like doing a press for Devil Wears Prada, which you're in. Oh. Shout out. What? And I was doing some press for it with Simone and Helen and they're both so good at it. I really love them both. I'm obsessed with both of them and they're both so good at this and they're like poised and professional and like, I can talk all day, but I'm also pro lying. Like I think like lying in press is so funny. I love to lie. I love to make up a story. I love to be ridiculous. And there were a couple of times that I stepped out of the bounds and like really took a big swing on like lying or like doing some stupid bit.

29:40Caleb Hearon:And I just felt a little like I was like, oh, man, I hope I'm not making this bad for them. But I just want to like be having fun all the time. I totally get it. But wait, can you please elaborate? Like, what do you mean? Like, do you lie from one press thing to another? So like then it's like you said one thing, but you said the other. Totally, yeah. And that's like, that, when you were like, the thing going on in my body, like, it's like, make a joke. It's not make a joke, it's like, save the situation. Oh, yeah. How do you save the, because. Oh, I love it. So. It's not lying about like, it's not lying about anything material.

30:11Caleb Hearon:Like, for example, when I say like, or like, do a bit, you know, like, like, for example, there was a really earnest question that an interviewer asked about Anna Wintour. They're like, how nerve wracking was it to be around Anna Wintour? And I, they both answered really elegantly and beautifully. they've both like been around her and they had beautiful wonderful earnest answers and then i said i don't really like her because we went to high school together and we were on the tennis team and we had big drama and she knows what it was but i'm not going to say what it was but basically all that to say i don't really fuck with anna went to her and like i don't know what compelled me to say that but it's obviously not true but it's like i just get a little bit bored sometimes and I have to lie.

30:50But honestly, like, I totally understand. When you look at, like, the way people get fried doing press tours, like, it's amazing that people don't kind of go off the rails more often. Yeah. Because, you know, you can, if you're doing, like, one or two things, that's great. But if you're doing, like, a lot of press, it can kind of drive you insane.

31:15Caleb Hearon:I'm going off the rails. And I like that about myself. I think it's great. But I am always a little bit like, oh, I hope I'm not making anyone uncomfortable because I love to do it. Yeah, but YOLO. YOLO. And also it is jester's privilege. Like literally being a comedian, I do get to do stuff like this. I like jester's privilege. Jester's privilege is a little like people let me get away with it a little bit more. They're like, oh, God, Caleb's a stand-up. You know, so I get to play with the bounds a little bit more. Oh, my God. Have you ever seen that clip of Joan Rivers guest hosting a late night show?

31:45Caleb Hearon:Maybe it was The Tonight Show. Is there only one? Or is her and Betty White the one I'm thinking of? Okay. Yeah, I think I saw this. It's so iconic. Yeah. I've been thinking about it a lot. I'm trying to get Late Night to let me be fun. Seth, I went on Seth Meyers and he let me be fun, but next time I want to be even more fun, I want to wear like a costume and do a character. But I, also, by the way, I'm just going to say, I might not ask them to do that. So if I don't do it, it's not that Seth's team said no, okay? But I, it's so fucking fun because Betty White comes out and Joan is like hosting the show, you know?

32:15Caleb Hearon:Yeah. And they just have this back and forth where they're being so mean and playful and ridiculous. And Betty's like, well, I'd love to say you have on a nice dress tonight. And Joan's like, thank you. And Betty goes, but I can't. And they're like going back and forth a mile a minute. And then eventually Betty White is like, all right, let's straighten up and fly right. And they do the interview proper. But like, I just want to like, yeah, I want to be a part of that. I want to like, I want to like entertain. I want to be like really, I want to make this stuff silly again. I totally get it. the the the um i forget like i maybe read several things about this but one thing was like a piece on like late night and how like podcasts actually are now the version like that late night isn't really subversive anymore it's not really taking any risks is that the right word you use the word subversive yeah um and that like it was there was an autobiography or is it an autobiography or biography on Arsenio Hall and kind of the risks that he took as one of those late night shows.

33:15And when you look at some of those clips and the questions that were being asked and the risks that people were taking back in those days, that's why people were staying up late. Like that's what it made. That's why it made it late night. It was like you were like, oh, my God, we're going to see something that's like not allowed. Whereas like now you kind of know what to expect from the monologues. and I love it. I still watch it. I love, excuse me. I love them so much, but it's like, yeah, it's kind of more like on podcasts now or like, you know, something like Z-Way, like where you're getting the stuff that's kind of off the beaten path.

33:52Caleb Hearon:Yeah, it's this weird. We've also had a cultural, like I've noticed this cultural thing that we're doing now where like people will comment on things and be like, oh my God, her approach to this press tour, oh my God, his media training, like, oh my God, shout out to his publicist like whoa his team knows what they're doing it's like what the fuck like or the opposite being like what is their team doing like wait what i'm just like we know too much now like i feel like the mystique is gone and well that's the thing is like it's so protected by publicists and stuff and also people there's so much access to information that it's like even me right now i'm like what am i saying that like could potentially be controversial and And it's like, I think you just have, like, how do we get to a place where it's like, kind of like what you're saying, where you're kind of like, eh, like, fuck it.

34:41Like, you know, it's like, can we all get jesters pass?

34:45Caleb Hearon:Let's get jesters pass for everybody. It's like, yeah, you just have to weather it. Like, I think that's, there's two approaches it feels like right now in the culture. And I don't begrudge anybody their approach. I understand all the reasons. You have a business. You have people to take care of. But like, there's the one approach, which is like, clean it up, tighten it up, stay on message, look pretty, do the thing. like don't fucking veer and just stay out of trouble at all costs and that is a totally understandable approach i get it but then there's this other approach that i guess i'm advocating for which is like let's be authentic let's be a little messy let's have fun let's trust that people know our hearts and also let's just be prepared to weather the storm every week people are mad at me for something i've said and i'm like they're just gonna have to get over it because i'm kidding around i don't know as much anymore it still makes its way to me usually in passing by one of them saying something i used to read and so i used to really intimately know and stress about it but it's like comments on instagram or it's like oh it's comments it's threads that people have started like not necessarily threads the app like it's people will like people will do like a thought post about something i've said it's videos it's it's usually like well-intentioned people that are humorless that i'm just telling the truth these are humorless people that are well-intentioned.

35:58Caleb Hearon:They have good values. We actually have the same values in the world most of the time. And then there's a whole other version of it, which is like people are just mad that I'm fat and gay and they hate me. That's a different thing. I could never care about that. That's just like you're always going to have some haters. Yeah, I'm fat and gay, you hate me, no worries. Like, that's fine. And then there's the ones that really bother me, which is people that actually share the same values as me in the world. They're just uptight, humorless, boring, woke scolds. And I get it because at one point I was like them, and it's because I cared so much that I didn't know what to do with all my caring.

36:26But it's kind of like the left's, I mean, without getting into politics, we can talk about, we can go back to Liza Minnelli. But the, like, it's kind of the left's problem is the finger wagging. Yeah. Like, it's, oh my gosh, it's a lot. Like, you know, you can't, it's, whoa. That's how it feels inside. It's like, I don't even want to say anything because I'm like, oh, what can I say? It's like, you're going to get me in trouble.

36:49Caleb Hearon:I've been saying lately, I do a lot of, like, college gigs and, like, talks at colleges. and I've been saying lately, like, part of what's going on with the left is, like, if we want to win, and I don't even mean necessarily elections, I mean, like, conversations. If we want to win, like, ideological conversations, we have to stop finger wagging, and we have to stop talking down, and we have to invite people to the party. We are having so much more fun. It's so much more fun to be nice to trans people, to love immigrants. Like, we are having more fun. It should be an invitation to the party that's, like, actually, we're not going to police every single word you say.

37:21Caleb Hearon:if you want to join the party and be cool we'd love to have you and i think yeah the the problem with culture right now one of the problems is that we have become so punishing and so like i mean merciless and ruthless like it's like yeah mean mean mean it's like so not cool or nice to be mean like there is i i hate mean yeah mean is like something that like brings me back to the horrible like middle school days like mean just isn't cool yeah it's not nice it's me no it's lame like don't be mean just don't be mean like like but yeah i you know the internet makes it easy well you're raising a kid right now what do you think like what do you think is the most important thing like when you think about raising a person i'm raising a kid and it's like you said kid and I was like oh my god look a rainbow like my eye immediately was like oh what is like like kid like colors yeah your your your room looks like very like it's a little kid yeah it's a little playful um what do you think is the most important thing like what do you think about the most when you think about like what you want this kid to have okay I want this kid to have a sense of adventure and um not fear of anyone else i am like so i am doing things like i do not have a nanny um not because i don't want one nanny sound amazing but because we don't really live in one place right now so i have a lot of local babysitters and because a lot of babysitters are students or school like going to school or have other jobs there's a mix of babysitters in each place and i um am the opposite of like kind of this you know we have to acclimate our child to the people because i'm kind of like you know um if i know that it's safe my child will figure out that it's safe like even if it's like the first time that she's meeting this person i'm like i have to go sorry like um i'll see you in a few hours yeah like I did before coming here.

39:33I want not to be afraid of other people. That's one of the biggest things because I think having an open mind and a sense of adventure and a sense of like, that's how you make the world your oyster. It's when all of a sudden you feel like you have access to all these different opportunities through all the different kind of people that you know, if that makes sense. That's like one of the big things right now is like just as many people, anybody, oh, you're like 16 years old and you're like, I just started babysitting. It's like, why don't you spend a few hours like babysitting? I'll go to the movies, which I barely have time to do anymore.

40:19But like, that's like kind of one of the big things. It's just, yeah, sense of adventure. Like I don't really, you know, like I'll let her ride the escalator. like in my head I'm like are their parents gonna be watching this being like oh my god she's so irresponsible like this is horrible um but like I let her ride the escalator to a year and a half I let her ride that escalator alone and people will be like oh and I'm like oh no it's fine like I'm watching her and yes she's fallen while getting off the escalator she's okay like I'm very hands off um in a way that surprises even myself but i kind of i find myself surprised by me yeah but um but yeah i don't know i just feel that uh i don't know it's it's it's uh it's it's kind of cool also i felt really validated because jennifer lawrence once gave an interview pretty recently about like playing with um her young child and how she like puts an airpod in and listens to a podcast or something.

41:19And I was like, oh my God, great. I was like, I thought I invented that, but I'm so glad to see that other people are doing it too. I'm actually not alone.

41:26Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So I don't know what your question was, but. You nailed it. Okay, great. Yeah, it was about what's most important. I think all the time about the kids in my life and like the things I want to give them and the presents I want to be in their life. Mostly I'm like, because I'm not any of their parent, I'm just like, my big thing is like, I just want you to feel like you can talk to me and like talk to me about anything. and like I'm a safe person that like yeah I'm here if you need to talk about things that you don't want to talk to mom and dad or dad and dad or mom and mom or whatever about like whatever the situation is but the number one thing I would like to give these kids that you just can't give them is like just like data like resilience of like you will you will come up against really hard things life will be really really hard and you it will suck and the first couple times that happens to you when life gets really hard you will feel like everything is crashing down it'll feel like the universe is collapsing in on you and it'll be about something like not getting in the play or on the team or whatever and then you'll get through it and then the next time something similar to that happens you'll have this data and this like backlog of like that happened and i got through it and all i needed to do was like give it time and this that and the other it's the data that you have to like build on your own of your own life like knowing that other people did it is like beautiful in the point of art in many ways but also just like can't give you the resolve of like i can do things i know that i'm like tearing up okay she's really a mom falling crying at the concept of resilience i know that's fucking right i want to be funny on this podcast

43:01i did not want to cry about resilience i wanted to be funny um no i um no i think that's really beautiful and really true and really like yeah life is hard like it's it's it's hard and it's also like hard on a scale for every like everyone it's hard for people on you know different scales and different but you just you just want to always make sure that you have people in your life that that you can turn to i mean now as an adult like yeah you remember as a kid like who were the people like your parents friends your aunts and uncles or cousins or whatever were the people that you could turn to outside of also of your parents.

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44:42So, yeah, but also it's really fun to have a naked baby running around. That's why people should have kids.

44:54Caleb Hearon:Well, it's so funny because they don't really know how to move, and so they're just kind of trying out throwing different body parts, and it's really fun. And then, yeah, they're always naked. Oh, naked. Like, now it's like pointing to the diaper. Get this shit off me. Yeah, and then it's like, oh, oh, we're going to put another one on. No, you're not. And then it's like, oh, we really should all just be naked running around all the time. Yeah. It was like me in high school. I was naked a lot. Yeah. And once, a senior year, we had like locker rooms. And I would do something, this is very embarrassing, but I would do something called the boob dance.

45:30where I would just kind of be naked and I would jump up and down to get my boobs and I thought it was like I was like this is so cool so cool

45:45Caleb Hearon:were you doing it for other people like showing them like look at the boob dance oh I'm obsessed this was my senior year so was ruling the school I was a senior but then this little freshman girl one day went and complained was just like, I don't like this. She invented and introduced the concept of shame to my life. The fucking snake in the garden, this girl. She complained about the boob dance? She did. Oh my God. Do you know where she is now? I know you won't say, but do you know? I don't even know who it was. Wow. I just know that someone complained. Oh, I would love to know. I mean, obviously we would never say, but I would love to know who was it and what became of them.

46:24Caleb Hearon:To complain about the boob dance. The boob dance is harmless. The boob dance was like... It was like, and also, because I was trained as a ballet dancer, I don't really have cool dance moves. So when I would go out like the New York City teenager, like sneaking out, going to clubs at like 17 years old, I had like one signature move. And it was like, it was similar to the boob dance. And it was just like, it involved going like this. Yeah. Side, side. As you should. Yeah. That is so funny. I hate the idea that you were reprimanded for the boob dance. I know. But you know what? I've done it several times since then.

47:13I was like, okay, I can't do it in school anymore. But then I got it back.

47:18Caleb Hearon:Dude, I remember the locker room was such a, there was this big thing at my school where like elementary school, you don't change out for gym. And then it was like, when you get to sixth grade, you start changing out for gym. That was like a thing that we all knew. Yeah. And I would say starting in fourth grade, I began to have this like terrible anxiety about changing out for gym because I was fat and I was like the only fat boy in my class. And I was like, Oh my God. And my body was such a sight of like confusion and embarrassment. And I was just like, Oh my God, like how am I going to. and also around like third grade was when I started to feel like I didn't really have words for it at the time but I started to understand that I was like gay and so I was like oh my god like being naked with these guys like what what if I have a crush and I'm like what if I can like a boner like I just the whole thing was like it's that thing where I'm like I literally felt like the universe was collapsing on me I was like this will destroy me and I spent like two fucking four years and telling no one because it was so complicated I didn't tell anyone like not my friends not my mom and then I felt shame because I told my mom everything and I was like dealing with this thing that I wasn't telling her was the only thing I wasn't telling her.

48:22Caleb Hearon:Two years of like agony about this and then I remember the first day of gym class in sixth grade when we had to change out and it was like no big deal. It was like no one was looking at each other. Everyone was embarrassed. Like there was one guy who was like very classically being like let's whip each other with the towels or whatever because he watched like a movie he shouldn't have. But other than that everyone was just like towel around them underwear off, underwear up, like in their own space. And then there was another part where like some of the boys were like more brazen about it. Good for them.

48:53Caleb Hearon:But I, it was no big deal. And it was one of the first times that I was like, you really spent two years like being sick. Sometimes it would come to me in the middle of a day when I hadn't thought about it for a second. And I would just be like. Oh my God, that's the worst feeling. I know. And then it was nothing. But wait, can I ask you something? Oh yeah. So, you know, so you said there that you knew that you were gay. Yeah. But when you first came out, you said you were bisexual. Yes. so what can you explain what that experience was like like to be like i think i was gay then i thought i was bisexual because you love julia roberts yeah but then you thought you were then you were gay so basically what i mean by i knew i was gay was like there was this i have like a pretty vivid memory of like in i look back on a lot of things from before like third grade even when i a lot of the like feelings that i felt that i didn't have words for they weren't romantic and they weren't sexual because i was a child but there were feelings that i was like oh this is different.

49:44Caleb Hearon:And then like third grade, we were doing like playground marriages. Like everyone was getting married on the playground. Kids are so weird. Yes. And I, I remember maybe I said it out loud, but for some reason or another, it came to my mind that I wanted to marry like my friend Tyler. I was like, if we're like, that's why I like hanging out with the most. Like I want to marry Tyler. And then I think I said it to someone and they're like, Oh no, that's just cause he's your friend. This is a different thing. And I was like, Oh, okay. Marriage is not your friend. It's like a different thing. But I was like, no, I, and I was kind of like, Oh yeah, Yeah, for sure.

50:13Caleb Hearon:But in my head, I was like, I think I actually knew that it was a different thing. And I was into it. And then from there on, I was like, oh, I started to learn. Like, around then, I came up in church. And, like, gay was bad. And it was a thing. Like, there was no, like, nuanced conversation around, like, human sexuality at my church in Missouri. So bisexual was not, like, an op. There was no other thing. Right. It was just, like, gay is bad. Right. There was no curiosity. There was no exploration. There was, like, if you do this thing, you are bad. And this is the right thing. And then I really did think I was, for all the fraughtness I seem to have had with the bi community over the years, I do love you guys.

50:50Caleb Hearon:But I really thought like, oh, maybe I'm bi because I love women. And I love hanging out with women. And there were girls that like I had such a strong feeling for that I was like, maybe that's love. And then it came time to like be physical with the girls, like to like make out and stuff. And I was like, I'm really not into this. but I was into the feeling of like someone wanting to kiss me and me wanting to make them feel good and the connection of like there were girls that I dated that I was like I have so much love for you that I'm just confused and then the first time I hooked up with a guy I was like oh that is so clearly like the only thing I want to be doing and I was like that is like that's the ticket baby that's the good stuff I was like hey whoa what's going on here and then I was like oh shit we figured it out what was going on inside your body at that moment oh my god all the little all the little guys were like never get us out of this all the little all the little guys in my body that were trying to come up with a joke earlier were they're sipping drinks out of uh coconuts they're relaxing on the beach um yeah so then i but then i was like i came out as uh by anyway because i felt that it would be like a softer launching point a lot of people have had a problem with that when i've said it that's the reality grow up uh sorry sometimes things have to be easier when you're from rural missouri and yeah And then I basically in college, I just kind of was like, everyone just kind of knew.

52:08Yeah.

52:09Caleb Hearon:Like, I think when I met Chance, you just knew. I was like just out at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you thought it was weird. You told me it was a sin. Yeah. I still feel that way. Yeah, I know. I know. But a job's a job, right?

52:24Caleb Hearon:But yeah, that was the journey. But yeah, I think it was so confusing. And it would have been so much less confusing had we just had, I didn't, my mom's household was not a conservative intense place to grow up my mom had gay friends my mom was very open it was all the outside shit yeah and it's what I worry about with my little cousins who are both boys that I'm like they're being raised in such a progressive loving like feminist household that their dad is so great and their mom is so great like and even my extended family like they have so much love and support and like good values and I'm just so fucking worried about these boys that they're going to be around in the way that that's going to hold so much more weight than mom and so much more weight than dad and i'm just i actually just read the will to change by bell hooks have you read it no i haven't it's phenomenal and i've been thinking a lot about this because it really is the like when patriarchy starts to like hurt uh boys the first like the real first sight where it really takes hold even if you're raised in a feminist household is with the boys you're friends with yeah and it's so intense yeah i worry about it No, we need to like, we need to just give all boys little strollers to push around.

53:35Little strollers to push around.

53:37Caleb Hearon:And a conversation, yeah, I think a more, I will say my mom, we've talked a lot in my adulthood about like, like I said, she was never like repressive or conservative in any way. But she definitely, I think, had some like insecurities about being a single mother and what it meant to raise a man as a single mother. And so sex wasn't really talked about a lot. and like some open conversations about sex, I think would have been really healthy and like productive. Yeah, that's a good one. I had a board game to learn about sex. Did you? Yeah, and it was not sex, you know, I mean, I'll just, I'll never forget the story of the book.

54:14It was a book and a board game. And it was like how you make a baby. Okay, so that was like the sex that I was taught. And it was a book and I'll never forget this. In the book, they start out with a couple that was, like, going to work in the morning. I might be getting some of this wrong, but the main stuff is right. They were, like, going to work in the morning, and they were really looking forward to seeing each other at night. And then they saw each other at night, but then they got into a big fight, and they didn't want to talk to each other. And then, like, one of the pictures is, like, the man, like, making food, and then it's, like, the woman, like, doing something else, and they're, like, not talking.

54:53but then like one of them apologizes to the other and they start to like be like okay and then they like start hugging and the hugging leads to kissing like i'll never forget there was like a fight before the sex and then they start making out and one thing looks another and they go to the bedroom and then it was like you learned like the you know the penis going into the vagina i don't know if it showed that but it showed the two people in bed and then it like explained the sperm's journey to like you know the egg and all that and I remember my mom I was like home sick from school one day and my mom like presented the board game to me and that's how I learned about it was like through the board game and then we had friends over a few days later and I said mom mom mom I want to play the board game with whoever the girl was that was over and my mom said to the friends it was like oh it's like a board game about like conception or whatever, sex and how you have a baby.

55:56And the parents are like, ooh, I don't think so.

56:02Caleb Hearon:I don't think you want our kid playing with your weird daughter's sex board game.

56:08And I was like, oh, that's so weird. Why can't? Okay. And then I was like, oh, I guess there's like something like wrong about this game. Like this game is like hot. That is so funny There was no other conversation It was in game It was just a game

56:26Caleb Hearon:I need to find that game Oh I need to know what that game is too Maybe you can try and look it up It was called the Nelson game It was from Eunice No it was like sex Sex marks the spot Sex on the cards Sex educate me It was like It was about how to make a baby for kids. You do some research, Jansen. Let us know what you find. I want to know so bad. I mean, yeah, it's such a, it's so, it's so fucking, I also have like obviously total grace because it's like, who wants to fucking talk about sex with kids? I know it's so fucking awkward. So I'm like, I don't know, I guess what I would have had you do.

57:05Caleb Hearon:I don't have a kid. I don't know how I would approach it, but it is weird. Don't you think it's just that you don't ever hide it? Right. Like, sex is sex. Yeah. So it's like, at one point, like the question of like, how, how did I come to be? You could say, well, like, two people loved each other very much, and, like, when you love someone, you can express it, and when you express it, you can express it in different ways, and there's a way in which you can express it in which you can have a baby. You know, like, variants of something like that. And then, like, little by little, you know, and you tailor it to your particular family.

57:43So it's like...

57:44Caleb Hearon:Yes, but you're totally right, and that is a healthy way to do it. The thing that gets me tripped up is like Holmes has a really funny story about this, my friend Holmes. But like just when the kids start getting, when their body is changing. Yes. And when the things are happening that like, you know, they are like a lot of times girls will be masturbating and not know it yet. Like they don't know why they're doing that. Yes. Or like boys are getting erections all the time. Those are the moments when I'm like, okay, I do not, there's no part of me that wants you to feel ashamed. Also, you can't be jerking off in front of company.

58:14But like can't you call that private time? Yeah. Just be like, oh, that's totally fine. Like, go do private time. I'm pulling this out of my butt right now.

58:23Caleb Hearon:But don't you get scared that it'll be like, shame? Like, go do that away. Don't let anyone know that you do that. I get scared. I'm like, I just want you to feel, it's such a fucking tight wire. And you're going to, the thing is, you're going to mess up no matter what. It's just going to be weird. But I'm like, how do you make sure it's like confident and secure? Okay, what if it's like this? What if it's that like, nudity is never wrong. yeah so like like like you have guests over and like your kid is like naked or whatever you know because you get to a certain age where like you don't really want to be naked but like you're let's think about like when you're like young young and you're kind of like oh i'm just wearing like underwear on my head and that's fine but then when it like comes to i don't know like masturbation or or anything else like it's kind of like oh like that's totally fine but that part of being naked, it's good to do that alone.

59:11Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Oh, it's good. You know what? Good to do that alone is nice. Maybe something like that. You're going to be okay at this stuff. I don't know. We'll see. When this comes around, you should give your kids the board game. You should give your kid the board game. I need to find the board. Have you found the board game? I mean, in this post, you know, cards against humanity, hellscape we live in, every sex board game, there's too many results. Okay. Well, I'll have to figure it out and I'll have to follow up about it. Figure it out and let us know because we'd love to stock it on our merch site.

59:42Caleb Hearon:You do a collab. This is a parenting podcast more than anything. Oh, God. No. Not this episode. I'm talking about So True in general. Oh, So True in general. This podcast, first and foremost, was started to help parents raise their children. And I think we've done an incredible job. This is the closest I think I came. Does that ring a bell? No, it's not that. You know what? there's going to be one other thing. This might speak to some of the women who are listening to this podcast, but there was that puberty book that every single girl was given. I don't remember what it was called. That puberty book had character, like drawings in it.

1:00:19And I think it was the same artist. Could be completely wrong.

1:00:24Caleb Hearon:I remember the day in like fifth grade when they told us that they're like, all right, we're going to, boys are going to go to one room and girls to another. We're going to talk about boy and girl stuff. I was pissed because I was like where are you taking my girls? I was like bring back my girls. I was so livid. I was like no you can't take my girls. I was infuriated. And then we go in another room and they're like you guys have to wear deodorant. I'm like so do the girls. Bring my girls in here now. What were the girls told? Did you ever find out? It was different. It was like the thing is there are parts about it that I'm like there are like it makes sense like the different things they were talking about but then i found out from one of my girlfriends that they were like there was like a conversation about like you know if if someone ever like asks to touch you and you don't want them to you're allowed to say no and i vividly remember they did not say that to us and i was like that applies to everybody that is like a conversation that you could have been teaching the class hello i was like i remember being like why didn't they tell us that like i was like now as an adult i'm especially like why didn't they yeah yeah but yeah i remember there was a there was like a consent piece to theirs that we I will say we had I remember in middle school we had a consent conversation that was actually like really informed and cool by a male teacher that I still remember but in fifth grade no such thing for the boys.

1:01:40Wow. That's interesting.

1:01:42Caleb Hearon:Yeah. Can I ask you another question? You can. What was it like to film The Devil Wears Prada 2? We're turning the tables. It's actually become my podcast right now. That's the way to do it by the way. That's my big secret. I mean, dude, it was so cool. It's so funny that like, how do I say this? So many people have asked in my life and also like for press, like what was it like working with Meryl and Ian and Stan and Emily? And I'm like, all the things you would think, of course, fantastic. Of course, amazing. Genuinely, one of the things I was most excited about before the table read and then especially after was like our crew of like you and Simone and Helen and Daniel and like every, like all the like young, like the new crowd basically that I was like, that is so fucking cool that like we are like, so many of us are doing like TV and theater and music and like comedy.

1:02:40Caleb Hearon:And like, we're from all these different parts of the like creative kind of like, um, world. And now we're getting to be in this movie. I was just so excited about that. And then when we got to hang out on set, I was just like, this is the coolest thing ever. I know. The day, was it like two days that we worked together or one day? Was it three? It was at least two. So fun. Yeah. Like, it was so fun. It was the best. Can you even believe it? That was crazy. How did you feel? Like, what? That's how I feel. I still feel that way. Like, first of all, that movie is perfect, the first one. if you it is timeless and also did you when you like first read the script the second one my thought was like Aline Brosh McKenna predicts the future because like this was like before Anna Wintour you know announced that she was kind of retiring from Vogue-ish and it was like oh, this is like, and not even that the movie necessarily addresses that, but it's like, it was so finger on the pulse.

1:04:01Yeah. I was, I just, wow. She's so great. Everyone was so great. I'm like, wow. And also, the outfit.

1:04:11Caleb Hearon:Yeah. I was nervous because I didn't know. I was like, oh, it's this big fashion movie, and I love the, I have so much, like the original means, like you, like all of us like the original is like holy fucking grail to me and I was so nervous about the costumes because I didn't know Molly and I didn't know Danny who were doing it I mean I knew of Molly's work but I was like I've had so many nightmare experiences as a fat person in this industry it is so horrific I will go I've gone to photo shoots where they asked me to do the photo shoot can we please photograph you for our publication and I go and they do not have a single piece of clothing that fits me like they just don't they are not prepared They're not used to having a fat person in the room.

1:04:53Caleb Hearon:They have no idea what to do. And I knew. I had, like, trust, of course. I was like, this is a huge movie with a huge, like, talented. It will be fine. But I didn't know the extent to how awesome it would be. And Danny and Molly, who, like, predominantly worked on my character, Charlie's Clothing, were so fucking prepared. It was crazy. Okay, the movie, when did you, how did you find out you were going to be in the movie? Oh, my gosh. I was going to ask you the same thing. Tell me yours. Okay. I found out okay so I put myself on tape for you know I was not giving the script or anything it was like two really short scenes and one was for Alana the character I ended up playing and the other one was for Marta the one that Bria plays and I was like I was like oh my god I'm so excited I did like 80 takes I was just like oh my god and for sure was like, well, if I get one, it's going to be Marta.

1:05:47Like, Alana, just, I didn't vibe. And then I didn't hear anything except my agent who texted me was like, you're pinned for Devil Wears Prada 2. I had never heard the word pinned. Like, I didn't, I was like, pinned. I haven't heard that in years, by the way. That's kind of an old. Because then Reddit helped me understand that it had to do with, like, being pinned to the wall of, like, where they were. Okay. So, but, so I was like, okay. And then I didn't hear anything for a really long time. And then I got a phone call from like two of my agents who were like, like, congrats on Devil Wears Prada too.

1:06:25And I was like, oh my God, I, I'm, I'm going to do it. And they were like, yeah, we were calling. I was like, oh, okay, great. And I was so excited. Yeah. That was, that was how I found out.

1:06:36Caleb Hearon:That's so cool. How did you find out? I was kind of on, I had kind of told my team, like I'm not auditioning right now. Like I was like, I'm tired. I'm going out for so many things. It's taping is so much work, as you know. So much work. And I was like, you know, I'm like going on tour. I'm like working on the, I think I was working on the hour. I was about to put the hour out or something. And I was like, I'm just like, I'm good on auditioning right now. I was like, you can send whatever you want, but it's probably all knows. And then of course this came through and I was like, well, I think we all know I'll be taping for that.

1:07:03Caleb Hearon:And same thing. I like, I like but it didn't say what my role was the role like it said like assistant to character I had never heard of yeah and I was like why would there be a character I've never heard of that has an assistant with this many lines and I was like I think that's a fake out but whatever and I was like I don't care regardless it was an interesting character I liked the character and so I was like I taped and then sent it off and really did forget about it because I was like I really genuinely was like I am not getting this role and that's okay hey, I want to audition anyway. Yeah.

1:07:35Caleb Hearon:And not because I didn't think I'd be great at it, but because I was just like, I can think of like the five gay guys who get a role like this and I will be very happy for them when they do. Sure. And then I was at lunch with my friend, Sydney Washington, who's been on the show. It was very funny. We were getting lunch in Brooklyn. It was raining. And I, my team, my team has not asked me this, but they've intimated that I need to, they're like, they're like, basically they asked me a number of times when we got really good news if I was excited. and happy because I am very like logistically like business minded.

1:08:08Like I hear something and I'm like, I will be excited.

1:08:11Caleb Hearon:So excited internally and happy and grateful. And later on when I'm alone with the thought, like a day later, I'll cry and be so happy and excited and have all the emotions. But in the moment I'm like, what is the rate? What is the shooting location? Where are we going? Where does it fit into the calendar? Like, will they put me up? Like what I just start thinking. And so oftentimes when I get big career defining news, my reaction will be like, okay, sounds good. email me the information and I'll get back to you guys. Like I'm just very like that. What? But they had given me their reactions already in the past to things where I had kind of not given them enough because they work so hard they want you to be excited.

1:08:43Caleb Hearon:Right, right, of course. And I am and they know that but anyway they told me there was a big call with a bunch of them and they're like hey, hope you're still free in whatever September or whatever because you'll be filming The Devil Wears Prada 2 as Charlie and my brain did the thing where I was like okay, yeah, we'll squeeze that in between whatever but I caught myself and I was like oh my god I'm like standing in the rain I was like you guys we did it but my brain is still being like how are we gonna fit that like what are we gonna do so logistics wow but I did the performance and they were all very pleased and I was that happy but then I went back into lunch with Sydney and she was like what was that and I was like I think I'm gonna be in the Devil Wears Prada too oh my god it was a dream come it's like crazy you can't even also I will say I have had so many friends especially in comedic roles book something huge and then get like completely cut out no mention no sight yeah and so there is always this thing in the back of my head that I'm like even when I've showed up on set even when I've done the job I try to keep it real contained and humble because things change and it has most of the time nothing to do with you 100 % it's like I think you even said on one of your episodes I forget who the guest was but you were saying when you got cast in Fargo and your mom like posted on Facebook and it's like no no no you have to take that down like i feel the exact same way like it's not until it's out like like i can't it's it's not real yet like it'll be real on may 1st it'll be real on may 1st when it's in theaters go see it i it'll be very real then yeah it's um you just don't want to like jinx it or also you just yeah you're in so little control of what it is in the end but um that's that's amazing that your brain you kind of like act like your own manager where you're like okay like we have to get into the logistics to make sure that it's not the logistics that are going to prevent me from doing it like we have to really like we have to really just know what's going on yeah i'm sure on some level like it's like well i think part of it's just that i came up so diy and like doing everything myself that i still i'm getting much better um but i still struggle internally with like handing things off and giving things over and don't worry i'm working on it y 'all um they're all probably right now like no you don't but I do and it's hard and I and then I think also it's probably on some level if I was in therapy they would probably tell me it's some level of trying to protect myself yeah yeah you know yeah from that thing of like am I gonna get cut out of this are they gonna take it away are they gonna change their mind yeah it's really oh god it's so so strange to audition for things and just wait and hope and like I remember once I was really close to getting this play in Paris, and I wanted this so bad.

1:11:31And the director did something so sadistic where she made the girl who I was up against and me audition the final callback in front of each other. And I remember I was fully off book. It was a long monologue. It was fully off book. I was like, I want this more than anything. and the other girl I was up against was not off book and kept forgetting things and being like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. So I was like, okay, well, the proof is in the pudding. I fucking did the work. Say that. And I did not get the part. I wailed like someone had died. I remember being on the floor of my studio apartment slamming the ground and just being, it doesn't get better.

1:12:15I mean, it's like it's never going to go up. And then I think four months later, at Cast on Sex Hides with College Girls. But see, very different than your reaction. When I was told I got cast on Sex Hides with College Girls, I said, shut the fuck up. And then the next day I called my agent manager at the time back and I said, I'm really sorry. Like that was so inappropriate for me to say. And they were like, no, we totally get it. But I felt so guilty. Like still I'm like, oh my God, you said like shut the fuck up. That's like so rude. But it was like, that was my reaction.

1:12:48Caleb Hearon:That is so funny. There was a role like two years into me acting. I had been up for so many things. I had gotten none of them. I mean, I had done like Fargo and stuff. Like I had done my original things. But then there was this real period of like the only thing going was internet stuff. And I was so like I don't want to be doing internet stuff. It just doesn't fill me up. Like I just don't know what to do. And I got really close. I got like third callback chemistry test with Andrew Rannells. and I loved the show and I knew many of the writers and I knew like the producers and I was like, I'm going to get this.

1:13:22Caleb Hearon:Like something's finally going to go. And then I didn't get in the, the guy who got it, um, is so great. I forget his name, but he was wonderful in it. And I was just like, after that I was so devastated and I, it was like months of me being like, you might need to just like find another passion. Like this might not happen for you. This is me all the time. This is me all the time. I feel like it's, I'm not, I constantly feel like I'm not doing my career right. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not doing this right. And I don't know what right is per se. Like, you know, I'm kind of like, oh, I should be like fully devoted to living in L.A.

1:13:57or like fully doing something I'm not. And I constantly feel like I'm not doing it right and that people know I'm not doing it right. And they're like, yeah, not her. We're not really interested in her. Like, I find that any time I actually was talking to my best friend the other day, who had a self-tape and she was like, well, I really want this one. So we know what that means. You're not going to get it. And I had that the other day too. I had this like Zoom audition and I was like, I want this so badly. And like, I usually like, like I just say it. Like I'll say it. I'm like, just please. I just want this so badly.

1:14:36Caleb Hearon:To them? Yeah. I love that. And I think that like, sometimes I think my like earnestness and sincerity like is, it's not a quality. Like I should have a persona of something else because I think that it, like I can't help but feel like sometimes it's the thing preventing me from getting, from like booking roles. But I had this thing and I was like, I really want this. So do you have everything you need? They were like, well, we're happy if you're happy. I'm like, yes, I'm happy. But like, do you have everything you need? I'm just so, you know, but whatever. It's so hard. The auditioning stuff is so, so hard.

1:15:17And I, oh God, I really, it's like, I sometimes I like rue the day that, I rue the day COVID happened. But like where, you know, everything became Zoom. And like, cause I'm like, I don't see anyone, any person anymore. And then other days I'm like, no, this is the best thing that could ever happen because you can now be in control. But like I do 80 takes like whoever's doing the self tape with me is like, Oh my God. I'm like, and the thing is I go with like the second one each time, but like I don't learn my lesson. It's Oh God. I just, I love working. And so, and you know, the ego of an actor is also that you like being chosen.

1:15:58Yeah. And so it's hard sometimes when you go for like a long period without being chosen because you're like, what's, what's wrong with me? Like, what am I doing wrong?

1:16:07Caleb Hearon:Nothing. I love your earnestness and sincerity, by the way. Okay. I think they're beautiful traits. I think you should never lose them. And I have something really unfortunate to tell you, which is, I think I've booked like most of my jobs by 100 % negging them. Like I'm like in the audition room being like, you guys can offer this to me if you want to, but I doubt I'll take it. And it's like clearly a joke, but I will say that anytime I've ever been. You're so right, but it's like dating. It's like, it's dating. It's like, okay, everyone's like no games. It's like, no, there has to be games a little bit.

1:16:35Like you have to kind of, like you can't just completely be like, you know, oh, I feel this way about you. And this is exactly what I'm looking for. Like you have to play hard to get a little bit. Like you have to be a little like, oh, like a little like cheesy, cheesy. It's the same thing I'm convinced with like auditioning. You're so right. I like never talk about my partner, but I'm going to give like an anecdote that he said where he was like, he says, he was like, you know, people say that when you start dating someone, they're like, just be yourself. And he's like, that's actually not great advice.

1:17:12You don't want to be like completely yourself. The yourself is going to come out. You want like you like you want to put in an effort. Yeah. You know, you don't want to just like immediately because like and that's the thing is like, yeah, that's where the romance builds. It's like a little like, let me show you the romantic side of me. And like, I kind of, I fuck with that. I like that. Because I'm like, yeah, we want to like put in a little bit of like an effort, not just be like, oh my God, I'm so obsessed with you. Like nonstop, nonstop, nonstop. Like that kind of, you know, will crash and burn after a while.

1:17:48Caleb Hearon:Yeah. I think. It'll fizzle. Maybe. What's so true to you? Oh God, there's a lot. You know, unlike some of your other guests. Don't I know it. And don't I know it. Try being me. These people don't respect me, Paulie. I suffer from a case of, like, earnestness, sincerity, and good student syndrome. So I have a few so true things. I'm going to do one that, like, is a little, like, trivial, but I feel pretty, I'm going to stand by it. Yeah. I think pitted olives should mean olives with pits. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think pitted olives, meaning that the pits have been taken out, makes no sense. Yeah. Because they've been de-pitted is what they've been.

1:18:35They've been de-pitted.

1:18:37Caleb Hearon:You're right. So that is so true to me. And can I say something else to that effect? Yeah. There should, in my opinion, and I know I'm going to catch heat on this, there should never be a pit in there. I don't like them. Why is there something in there that can hurt me? Get him out of here. I know, but it's also a little rewarding. And take the shell off the shrimp. What are you saying? No, I eat the shell. Oh, do you? Yeah, I eat that whole thing. I put that head in that tail. You eat the head? Mm-hmm. You eat the tail? Mm-hmm. You do not eat the tail. I do, I eat the head in the tail. You do not.

1:19:06I do. No, you do not. I do.

1:19:08Caleb Hearon:You're dead ass right now. I'm dead ass, and you want to know how I'm so validated by it? Yeah. I had a Spanish friend growing up, and her family made shrimp a lot. Yeah. And once it was her birthday party. Camarones. And is that what they were called? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I speak zero Spanish. It's embarrassing. But I do speak French. You speak really good French. And Italian. Hello. I can get by in Italian. Okay. But they made shrimp for her birthday. And I was seated at the table. Again, a case of earnestness and sincerity and wanting to be the best student. I made sure I was the best, most proper child at the table.

1:19:49And there were kids being like, oh, my God, why are we not having pizza? What is this shrimp? Whatever. and I saw the dad like just eat the shrimp whole and so I started doing it and this girl's mom came over to me and was like oh my god like you, you're a really good eater

1:20:05Caleb Hearon:you're like this white girl's got motion and I was like she's eating the tails oh my god and then I was like this is how you're supposed to eat shrimp so anyway that is going back to your shell your you know the skin on the shrimp thing oh my god dude Dude, I want it taken off because I can eat. Here's what I can do. I can eat. I can't eat the tail. I can't eat the head. Okay. I can handle, or the legs. I can handle the little shell on it. That's fine. Preferably, if you're making shrimp, I prefer that you just, you can come out with the tail on it, but when they bring it out, full head, full tail, legs, skin, I'm like, I'm hungrier than that.

1:20:41Caleb Hearon:It's like, I don't have time to be going to work right now. You don't like having to work for your food. Not at all. Yeah. I had this thing where like I hated, I was vegetarian for a really long time and I didn't, I couldn't eat meat. Like I just couldn't do it. And then I was in Zimbabwe and I was on this like kind of almost month long trip with my best friend and her mom who works for Doctors Without Borders. And we went around the country and our guide, this amazing guy named Sam, one night was like, we're going to go get a chicken for dinner. So there was no like saying, I'm sorry, I just don't eat meat.

1:21:19It was like, okay, like I'm going to have to just eat the chicken. And the strangest thing happened. Well, first of all, the story of getting the chicken was literally just walking into like a woman's property with chickens riding around and him being like, we're going to take that one. They wrung the neck at the chicken. They put it in a white bag. We go to where we were staying. Sam was like, I have to get something from the car. The chicken came back to life.

1:21:40Caleb Hearon:No. The chicken came back to life. The bag like fell off the table. Never have I jumped up on a chair faster. and then Sam came back and he was like, you just have to wring the neck again and I was like, I can't do that. He's like, come on, snap its neck. But he did it and then I was like, if I'm going to eat this chicken, I have to watch exactly how it is made. So I went out back with Sam and I did the whole thing. I poured boiling water on the chicken to take all the feathers off, like cut it open, took out all the pieces we weren't going to eat, whatever, Then we like, you know, grilled it and I ate it and, um, and I really enjoyed it.

1:22:19And so I realized that I'm the opposite. I think that like in order to eat, especially like animal products, I need to like see the whole kind of thing. I get a little grossed out if I don't know where it's coming from.

1:22:31Caleb Hearon:I like seeing this side of you. It's a little frightening and also fascinating and beautiful. Right. You're so much stronger than me. I'm like very impressed and intimidated. If I watch, I can't, if I watch someone cut the head off the chicken, I'm not having dinner at all, period. Let alone that chicken. You're so strong and cool for that because that would freak me the fuck out. Oh. If it charged at me and then he was like, ring it snack, we're going to eat it. I'd be like, I'm actually all good on food, brother. Paul, you want to play a game? Yeah, I know. Yeah, let's play. How are you feeling about the game?

1:22:59I'm feeling really nervous about the game.

1:23:01Caleb Hearon:Yeah. You're going to be great. I probably won't. I'm really bad with rapid fire. Okay. Well, as you know, I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. And if you get Tenor more correct, we're going to give you$50. All right. You ready? Yeah. Okay. John Cena's real name is John Lombardo. False. False. It's John Cena. The Nintendo DS debuted in 2001. False. False. 2004. Elephants are the largest land animals. False. True. True. The Sahara Desert is in South America. False. False Africa. Bard College's motto is, I shall give thee the crown of life.

1:23:38True.

1:23:38Caleb Hearon:That is true. Kesha is six foot tall. False. False. She's 5 '9". A hexagon has five sides. True. False. Six. The Great Barrier Reef is in the Indian Ocean. False. It's in the Pacific. All insects have six legs. False. True. Oh, whoa. I didn't know that. Oberon is the king of the fairies in a Midsummer Night's Dream. False. That's true. No, it's true. It's true. It's true. Because Tatiana's his wife or something. Yeah, whatever. Okay. The New York Knicks have won two NBA championships. True. That is true. The capital of Spain is Barcelona. False. False. In Madrid. Crocodiles can breathe underwater.

1:24:18Caleb Hearon:False. False. All months have at least 28 days. True. True. The national animal of France is the swan. False. False. It's the rooster. How'd she do? 11. You did really good because technically I would, I'm not going to give you 13, but there were two that you definitely knew that you second guessed. I think you got 13. Yeah. Yeah. But it's okay. I got them. I'm bad with rapid fire. I hate being under pressure. You got 11. Okay, 11. So I got$50. Incredibly good student. You get$50. Oh my God. You get$50. And that's our episode, dude. Do you want to tell people, well, you're in the Devil Wears Prada.

1:24:51You're in the Devil Wears Prada. So everyone needs to check out Caleb Herron in the Devil Wears Prada on May 1st.

1:24:55Caleb Hearon:They're going on. How else can people support you? Is there something they should watch? A place they should go? Actually, I might do this like avant-garde monologue in November in New York City. So if anybody wants to see that, It's going to be at the Alliance on the Upper East Side in the Sky Room. And maybe I'll post about it on Instagram. Will you remember to tell me about that? I really want to go. I will. It's avant-garde French theater. I can't wait. Okay. I just recently watched a woman in Europe scream for an hour straight while drinking a glass of milk. I'm down for the weird. What was this?

1:25:29Caleb Hearon:I'll tell you about it off camera. Okay, great. Because I want to tell you the full details. Apple Pay is the simple, secure, and fast way to pay. That's because your credit or debit card is right on your iPhone. accepted at millions of places from big box stores to boutiques you can check out with your iphone anywhere contactless payments are accepted apple pay is more secure than a physical card because you authenticate your purchases with face id before you pay and your actual card number is never shared with merchants add your debit or credit card to apple wallet to check out in seconds simple secure fast that's apple pay terms apply i don't think i can be your friend isabella said Rebecca's stomach flipped.

1:26:08Caleb Hearon:This is the love story of real hinge couple Isabella and Rebecca, written and read by me, Temi Denton-Hurst. Listen to the free audiobook now.

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