Punkie Johnson Fell in a Hole

26:30probably Dave Dave Chappelle you know who I like to you know cause since working at SNL we get to see them in action right and then like a lot of comedians a lot of hosts that come to the show the team the writers are right there monologues for them. But the comedians that come, they perform, they write their own monologue. And if they need a little help with tagging, then they'll get the help. But I love to watch Bill Burr when he's on the show. I love to watch him in action. I love to watch Chris Rock on the show. I like to watch them articulate their jokes. I love to watch the progress from it, from when they practice it on Friday, they go into it on Saturday, they do it for the run-through, and then they do it for the live.

27:07I like to watch the specific changes that they've made. Especially like Dave Chappelle, because sometimes Dave Chappelle, he's just so fast. He's so clever and he's so smart that what he'll do is he'll do a whole monologue, his performance for one show and then a second show. You'll be like, that ain't what he did for the run-through. He'll do a whole different 22 minutes. He's prolific, yeah. It's supposed to be seven minutes. That bitch will do 22. But you're sitting up there and you're like, oh man, he's a genius. But come on, man, I'm trying to be on TV. You know what I'm saying? get your ass off the stage motherfucker yeah but yeah i mean i really enjoy i really really enjoy watching chris rock work um i mean i do have an obvious question for you about dave which is like he's he's an undeniable legend absolutely but he spent so much of the last several years of his career really going in on this trans stuff he did what do you make of it like how does it make you several conversations about it number one thing about dave he's not anti-trans yeah he's just he's he's just a fucking idiot yeah he's just like he's not anti-gay he's not anti-trans he's not like that but the problem is once he tell one joke and he get a rise out of people he will continue to to get that rise he's like he's like uh in he's like rebellious in that way you know what i'm saying and you've had those friendship conversations where you're like come on man come on don't do another one dog but i've had those with comics yeah he gonna he gonna do what he want to do he he he fucking dave and it's just like with with him if you know him and you know his heart you wouldn't take offense to it but in his climate i could understand why it's received the way it's received you know what i'm saying yeah absolutely so it's just like on some instance like i went to a like a trans party yeah why my dumb ass had a dave chapelle shirt on I was like Pocky What the fuck Are you doing Yeah Why did you pick This sweatshirt today Yeah There wasn't another sweatshirt I wasn't even I'm just like You stupid Motherfucker Yeah I was like God Please don't let These people Realize What I got on Yeah And was it Did anyone say anything No one said anything But I felt Just so uncomfortable I was just like, I hope, you know, I'm an ally.

29:31I was just so sorry. Yeah. I didn't mean it. That's so funny to me. It was very innocent, but, you know. When you were on the show, did you prefer having stand-ups on to watch that process? Or was it fun seeing, like, the famous people try and figure it out in a way that they never have to do? Like, what was more fun? With watching a host? Yeah, like in terms of hosts, did you prefer a comic or did you prefer like the actors? Like what was more fun for you to watch? You know what? It's pretty split down the middle. It's pretty equal. I thoroughly enjoyed, because you know, everybody's process is very different.

30:08Yeah. And you can watch some of the hosts who won't submit to the show and they will specifically have a very hard time. Yeah. Now, because that's a show that you have to submit to because they're going to do it their way. They've been doing this for 51 seasons. you think it's your no to take all that ego you at SNL yeah drop it yeah and then once people understand that and they submit the show goes perfectly well you know so it's just you know SNL is is a different machine it's a monster and it built itself and and everybody it's a dance you've been there it's just like everything is moving at one time everybody understands where everything needs to be.

30:48Everybody has the rhythm it takes to get the show done. Nobody's bumping into nothing. Nobody's messing up things. It's just like these people have been working. You know, everybody's kind of sort of in a way married to each other because they're married to the game. So the way that it moves, just the choreography of it is just amazing. I can't believe it runs the way it runs. I'm more impressed with how it all runs and how they change the sets and take them down in 30 seconds. The logistics and the staff and crew on that show are superheroes. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nuts. Yeah, yeah.

31:21I mean, they are some mistakes. I mean, I ran in front of the camera one time. Oh. Whole head. Live TV. All of this. You see all of this and up in my wig. Yeah. I was like, I'm so sorry, Lauren. Yeah. That's so funny. So, you know. Did you have any, because you've made a couple big moves now in your life. You went from Louisiana to LA, you went from LA to New York. were there any like big culture shocks when you made those moves anything that was like you know what i'm glad you asked that okay so i beef with a lot of gay people online first of all say that okay i beef with so many gay people and it's because first of all i'm always talk shit yeah that's just how i am i talk shit about every single thing every single every every person and if and if you watch the videos you could see yeah that is out of love it's not like some hate slander bullshit but what i realized when i moved that gay people it's all regional right so when i talk shit online it's because that's how i was born and raised gay so down in the south like texas alabama georgia arkansas florida louisiana we have this thing of like we kind of mirror the heterosexual relationship so i can't be with no butch That shit is gay It's gay Can't be out here doing boy on boy That's nasty That shit is nasty I come from the way we were born and raised In a gay community as dykes Right The boys will be boys If you play like the two ball basketball You are the boy and you have to be the boy You can't be coming out With your nails painted doing all that gay shit yeah okay so then i moved to uh los angeles and these gays just running amok there's fem on fem action fem on film butch on butch i'm like what is this gay shit this is stupid yeah now i'm competing with the butches and the fems for the fems this isn't right yeah yeah so that's when i started to and also what it what it did was that's when i started to soften up yeah that's when I was like, oh, so I don't have to be this big butch man that I was taught by whoever our gay commissioner was.

33:39I don't even know, but I do realize that it's all different rules. And when I'm fighting with people on the internet, I'll be fighting with people because I heard that they have this thing called dyke dicking or something like that. But it's butches having secret sex with men. And I got online and I was like, butches, say it ain't so. please tell me this is not a thing. I had a butch friend do this in college. You can't have sex with men. I know. And then like, all like the new school gays were like, you're starting to look more homophobic to us, more that you talk. And I'm just like, I don't give a fuck what I look like, bitch.

34:16That shit is nasty. Well, this is, I get dragged into some, some young internet queer discourse sometimes for things I say on here. And I'm like, there's a couple of things going on here. Number one, y 'all spend most of your time online. I spend most of my time in the real world with real people. And so when I talk about people that are different from me, it's out of love for my friends. But y 'all don't really have friends like that. No shade. And so y 'all are just hanging out on your little corners of the internet. And then that's one piece of it. And then the other piece is they're used to now, like a lot of people, they look up to the younger queers.

34:46They look up to these like very sanitized, like influencer types. And I'm like, I'm not an influencer. I'm a comic. Correct. I am a comedian. I like to make people laugh. I'm joking around. I'm finding the flaws. I'm making fun of, that's what we do. Right. and so I'm like you that's fine I'm not for you then yeah I don't have to be for you also I don't have to be you know like I get into a lot of arguments with the gays because I'm like I don't have to be with this gay agenda yeah I don't have to be with it it doesn't make me less gay than you I'm gay you're not with the gay agenda motherfucker I've been I've been fighting longer than I've been in this gay fight all my life yeah I'm gay as the fuck yeah and I'm with the gays yeah but I don't agree with a lot of things like I get in trouble a lot because I don't like to be called queer but it's trauma for me because I went to a white school when I was younger and they teased me with queer.

35:31Yeah. That's what I was called. I didn't go at the black schools, because at the black schools they was called dykes, but nobody called me dyke at the white school. They teased me, called me creep, weird, queer. Yeah. And I carried that with me and now all of a sudden queer is a good word. I'm like, no, I can't do queer. And you don't have to like that. I haven't gotten over it. Yeah. It's like, it's just like, no, so bitch, fuck queer. And they're like, ah, yeah, yeah, you're against us i'm like no i just have my own story yeah so i always have to constantly just fight with that and and sometimes i we we argue because i'm just like why if you feel like i'm not a part of the gay agenda whatever that is the rules that the new gays have made yeah if i disagree with one thing then how am i cast out of the community because i don't agree with how this works or or what this is i'm just like no it's it if it's if it's supposed to be all inclusive Yeah.

36:21If that's what we're preaching, then that's what we should be, then we should lead an example with that. Well, and that's the other thing is, like it or not, we're in community together. When they come round us up, we're all getting rounded up. Whether, like, the young online queers that want to bitch with us about terminology or whatever, and I understand it because I'm partially in that. Like, I feel like I've kind of got a foot in both. I'm like, regardless, this is the LGBTQIA++ whatever community. All of us are in this thing. and the only people I'm really not down with are the gay people that are like fuck trans people other than that oh no we can't say we have to protect our trans people that's what I'm saying and as long as that's not your thing I don't care we can disagree on pretty much anything about the labels and the language you know what I mean right right right but I don't like queer either I'm a gay man yeah that's what I'm saying like I'm fine with being a dyke ass bitch you know and I'm just like we just gonna keep queer we ain't gonna change it of remixing yeah just queer yeah Just gonna keep that dusty-ass word.

37:20Just queer, no quigger, no quincense, no cues. We just fucking still queers. Okay. Jesus. Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.

37:59Christ. They used to play a game when I was in the fourth grade called Smear the Queer. Of course, yeah, we did too. And it was a tough, it was just like, nah, I'm not fucking with it right now. I kind of liked that game though. I was like, y 'all can touch me. You know what I mean? it was like oh no it was like oh no what if y 'all all touch me

38:23I didn't mind it punky I was cool with it okay I liked it I was like no worries all the boys want to jump on me that's not a problem I like that the boys wanted to smear me

38:36yeah if the girls were smearing me I'd be pissed exactly if the girls were smearing me I probably would have been like screw some bitch nail me to the cross oh my god that's so funny it was just so weird it was just like i was like no we're good we're good that is yeah like i just always want to get like whenever i do podcasts and get on any platform i always want to be very specific and heavily say i love my gay people i don't give a fuck if we disagree on this or that i've been in this fight yeah i love and we all got trump taking us all down and being a second now so we might as well just love each other isn't it isn't it fun when like meeting a gay person is just like the fucking bet like when you find out someone's gay out in the world i mean like an older gay person makes me want to cry immediately oh yeah i just want to immediately sob i see like a 65 year old gay man i'm just like on the verge of tears sometimes yeah when i see like the older ones i do be wanting to cry sometimes because i can't even imagine i know the barriers they had to break to just beat themselves finally yeah you know and now it look like it's going backwards it's so fucking weird but anyway yes yes you down with g-a-y so what have you been up to what's what's on your mind what are you looking forward to what's making you happy right now you know what when i left snl i was i don't want to say i was distraught i was just lost yeah no because i started as just a comedian i had no intentions on going to a show like snl because i was very brash blunt and a person like that doesn't belong on network television yeah so they so they said and so when i got the opportunity to do it i was very shocked and i nailed the audition which i sent in some ghetto ass shit yeah and they loved it because it was different and then they i got a call back i was like okay so i doubled up on my characters and then i got the job now i went with that being said i went from just being this comedian who was just out, just having a good time and thought that that's what I was going to do for the rest of my life to the biggest sketch show in the world overnight.

40:42And then you do it for four years and you're like, okay, this is my life now. And then you just stop. And then everybody is like, can't wait to see the next big thing. And now you're sweating and you got all this shit. Like, fuck, well, what's the next big thing? I don't know. I didn't have a plan. and so for a minute I was very stressed I went down into a dark hole I stopped talking to a lot of people and it wasn't out of like spite or I hate you it was just that I I was just mean and I just needed to keep all that negative energy to myself and so what happened was I just was like God just help me send me a sign like what am I supposed to be doing because I don't want to do the next big thing I want to do the next thing that that that is meant for me to walk in my purpose right so one day i woke up and the lord said we don't have butch representation yeah we ain't got none yeah we got we you know we need somebody out here that's representing for the big dyke butches who are okay with being masculine and putting out that tough shit because the world don't want tough if you pay attention like if we if you watch anything on television you don't really see the tough tough butches yeah everybody's kind of got that soft you know like we have to keep it soft for television.

41:58Now, fuck that. Even with the L word, you ain't seen like no real butches. You saw like some masculine women, but you ain't seen like no real niggas, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, I'm about to get out here and I'm about to start representing for my masculine women and I ain't gonna be scared to do it. And I'm not gonna be scared that TV not gonna want to pick me up because I'm too brash or I'm too tough, you know? And so I remember when I did my special like two months ago. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. So many masculine women, so many butchers came up to me and was like, I fucking feel seen, punky.

42:31Yeah. I feel seen. Cause I be like, I be on stage doing all that shit. I be like, where the butcher? I be doing all that shit and all the butchers be in the back.

42:46Like there's a fucking mailman in the neighborhood. So it's just like, I want to do that. And you know what else I did? Because I was just like, I needed direction. I did something that black people do not do. I went to the jungle and I did the strongest strand of DMT. Really? Yes. That's the death drug, right? It simulates the death reaction in your brain? Is that what I'm thinking of? I did Bufo. Whoa. The Toad. Whoa. And the one that Mike Tyson did, the one that Joe Rogan talks about doing too. I did that and it changed my entire life. Wow, that's so interesting. that's what i i didn't know it would change like ever since i did that it's like something shifted in my brain i became like this person of just like well it's gonna be what it's gonna be what's the worst that could happen yeah we're gonna be late or we're not gonna make it what's the consequence not much like nothing really truly matters yeah all right i got a job well i guess i gotta come back home huh you know i mean like what's the worst that can happen yeah so once I just started living like living just kind of with that mindset everything just shifted in my entire universe like I was able to shoot my special you know I booked a really great job like um just like everything you know I submitted my documentary to Sundance it's like everything just started going up because my mindset just happened to change and it just makes you realize that life is precious and I want to enjoy every single moment of it and I don't really want I granted there will be things that stress you out it's just not gonna be a perfect you know it's not gonna be perfect but i've i've just been happy ever since i've done it yeah so you went where'd you go to do dmt where's this at uh went to mexico with a really uh uh with some really really great friends and the experience itself is very scary it's i just want to let anyone know if you're thinking about doing it is so scary you go away that's all i can tell you from your body consciousness you go away yeah it's it's it's it's very hard to explain um you go away yeah it's it's getting scarier the more you say it you can tell you that much yeah it's like your brain it takes you to all these but it's like the experience itself is like it's seven minutes i remember i woke up in it but i couldn't hear anything but i could see and my uh spiritual guide I remember just dancing with her and it was almost like I was floating on clouds it was just such a surreal experience and I felt like I was with an angel and then like she like laid me down and then I just started experiencing all these things and you go through all of these emotions it's like whatever you've been running from it meets you head on and you have to take care of it what met you?

45:36just like or we don't have to No, it's just like, here go the thing. So before you do it, they give you a prayer to read. And she stands in front of you and she holds this prayer. And I couldn't get past the third sentence. This woman, no one has seen me cry like this besides my mother. I cried the ugliest. I'm talking about all the deep. I cried a filthy, ugly cry. I could not get past and I forgive myself. I couldn't, I was like, enough. I was doing all this.

46:15I was doing all this. I was just like, I could not get past that. And in the moment, I was like, damn, I must have done some crazy shit, you know? So when I went in under the Bufo, I just asked for forgiveness for all the things that I've done. And just like, and I forgave myself a lot. because you know I felt really bad for leaving my wife in the state that she was in but I had to do that for me but that still doesn't take away the guilt yeah so it's just like and then just a lot of other stuff happened and blah blah blah so I had to forgive myself for a lot of the things that I felt very very guilty for even though it probably may or may may or may not have been my fault yeah and then you just do it and I spoke with my grandmother um I spoke with my the one my ex who I have right now.

47:05I spoke to her mom and apologized to her about things that mean, the fights that me and her daughter have had and I promised to do better and just like, just like all kinds of stuff. Yeah. But it was a very, it was a grand spiritual. It was a strong, intense spiritual experience. And you're fine for a day or two. Now what happens is, the next two weeks, you, your body is integrating back into its human informed. Yeah. Which sounds crazy because when they were telling me that that was going to happen I was like yeah yeah yeah it's fine. I'm me. But you're not you. Your brain has shifted. So for the next like two weeks my anxiety was at all time high.

47:46I thought I was going to die for two weeks. Really? Yes. See I don't know anything about these drugs. This is all like learning for me. But all the reason why I thought I was going to die for two weeks was because my anxiety consumed my I could not breathe. You know I had to like put water in my face and run up and down the hallway and I was just doing this and just trying to snap myself out of it. But what it does is it forces you to attack all of your challenges and all of your trauma and everything that triggers you. It forces you to fucking deal with it because it's not going to go away until you sit the fuck down, get your journal and say, why am I acting like this?

48:19What am I afraid of? How am I like what exactly is triggering anxiety? And so I start writing shit down, writing shit down, writing shit down. and then once I got to it and started working through it the anxiety just started slowly falling off but that was me dealing with my issues yeah you know what I'm saying so I do now I'm just trying to deal with my issues head on and a lot of it was fear you know because I left SNL and then I was afraid to take it to the next step which is crazy because why are you afraid to take it to the next step when you just left the biggest stage in comedy sketch history this is the point next step is always the point exactly so I just had to snap out of a lot of things and and uh and it was just like that imposter syndrome and that what if I'm not good enough and that was I supposed to be on SNL and it was just it was a lot of things that was just I was really struggling with like just my self-esteem so I did a lot of self-reflection I did a lot of prayer I did a lot of meditation and it was it took a lot of work and I'm still working but I came out on the other side and I just got to work I called my acting coach I'm Like, it's time to get fucking busy.

49:26Even though I was working with my acting coach when I had an audition. Now I'm like, nah, we need to get on. We need to go every week. I need scripts. I need to get into this study. I need to understand what the writer's talking about. Why is this bull? Why is this dash here? I just started, like, really, really getting into script and scene study. And here we are. Yeah. We ask people on this show every episode, what's so true to you. Is there something that's so true to you right now, Bunky? You know what? I think what's true to me is I watch a lot of like therapy videos online and I watch what people say what love is and when I watch certain things and how certain people touch each other and love each other and be with each other I look at it and I'll be like I don't know if I ever felt like that in my entire life.

50:22Yeah. I think I've gotten close. I think I loved my wife. I did love my wife. We were together since we were kids. But to love her in that capacity, I don't know if we ever made it there. Yeah. And I want true love. I want to experience that. I want to cry when I look at my bitch. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if I've ever made it there. I don't know if my heart was pure enough to do it. But now I'm like actively working on myself and I'm looking for it inside of me so that I can do it to whoever I'm with later. I think it's all there for you. I think it's going to happen. I believe in it.

50:54Yeah, yeah. I believe in it. I want to be like, you changed my life. I want to say, you know, you add so much value. I just want to be shit face crying and I just want to find the love of my life. I know she's out there and I'm a fucking catch. I can't believe this bitch let me go. I can't either. You're a huge catch. You know, I have my little issues. Don't get it twisted. We all do. But I'm a goddamn catch. Punky, not for nothing. A lot of lesbians watch this show. Great. Hey, baby. Right now, the hope in my heart is that maybe you coming on So True plays a little role. Maybe they reach out.

51:27Maybe you end up with somebody from, I mean, that would mean the world to me. DM me, baby. I need you to be like 5 '1", 5 '2". Say it. I need you to be like a Felicia Rashad kind of pencil skirty. Tell them. You know, and you got to be able to put me in my place without saying nothing. Okay. I want you to look at me and do this, and I'm going to be like, yes, ma 'am. I want to be, that's the great thing. I want to be bossed around, but I don't want to be controlled. it's a difference. I just want somebody who kind of knows. I want to be able to go to my woman and ask for advice and she can give it to me.

51:57A lot of my relationships, like the last relationship I was in, the relationship with my wife, I found myself being on both sides of the ginger rolls. And sometimes that can get annoying. It's like, damn, I got to go to work. I got to come home. I got to cook. I got to clean. I got to do laundry. It's like, damn, I don't want to do everything all the time. I don't mind. I will. It's like, come on, baby. Help me out. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like you can't smoke no cigarettes. you can smoke weed of course I gotta do weed but you can't smoke no cigarettes and you gotta drink a little bit and have some fun yeah you know I love that 5152 Bleacher Rashad pencil skirt and if you could if you could be bilingual that would be nice too cause you could teach me a thing or two yeah and I love a woman who just like on top of me riding me and she'd be like what accent was that just let me know I don't know what it was whatever that was better than that when a woman do that to me and grab my face, I'd be like, eh, bustin' the neck.

52:54Punky, I'm dead. Hey, we have a game for you. Yes. All right, this is the true or false segment. Okay, we play this with every guest. I'm gonna read you 15 statements. Okay. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. Okay. And if you get 10 or more correct, Punky, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars. Okay. All right, let's lock in. You ready? Yes. All right. Squids have three hearts. True. True. True. In Italy, it is illegal to build a house without a bidet. Wait, say it again. In Italy, it's illegal to build a house without a bidet. False. True. Damn. The Mall of America is in Columbus, Ohio.

53:26False. False. It's Bloomington, Minnesota. Nichols State University's band is the Nichols Corps. False. False. It's the pride of Nichols. Potatoes were the first vegetables grown in space. False. True. Damn. Shaq only hit one three-point shot in his entire NBA career. True. True. Japan is made up of over 14 ,000 islands. True. True. The New Orleans Saints were originally the New Orleans Pythons. False. That is false. The summer solstice is the longest day of the year. No. The summer solstice is the longest day of the year.

54:09False. True. Damn. Honey expires exactly one month after being harvested. True. False. It never expires. Thriller was the first video aired on MTV. Say it again. Thriller, Michael Jackson's Thriller, was the first video aired on MTV. That's false. False. It was Video Killed the Radio Star. The Treaty of Paris ended the American Revolutionary War. Oh, God. These fucking history questions. The Treaty of Paris ended who? The American Revolutionary War. False. True. Fuck! I want to commend you, though. You're going quick. Okay. The Ron Eagle is a real bird. False. False. Africa is the only continent that's in all four hemispheres on Earth.

54:50Repeat that. Africa is the only continent that is in all four hemispheres on Earth. That's false. That's true. Rihanna has won nine Grammy Awards. Pop. Oh, God. She's won nine. Rihanna, talk to me, bitch.

55:12True. It is? True. How'd she do? Nine. Damn! Punky! As many Grammys as Rihanna. Yeah. You know what, though? I will say you might be our most locked-in guest on the True or False. You got locked in. That was really good. Hey, look. Hey, hey, hey. Don't threaten me with a good time. I love to compete. I was very... You did a killer job. Punky, it was such a treat to have you. Were you telling people where they can find you? Yes. Also, it was a treat to be here. Thank you so much. Thanks for doing it, dude. I really appreciate you. I love you so much. Love you. It's a treat to have you. Y 'all can find me at Punky Johnson on everything.

55:43P-U-N-K-I-E Johnson and follow me. I'll be doing a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, I know that's right. You absolutely will. I can't wait for people to find out what you're up to. I can't either. Yeah, it's going to be fun. God has blessed me, people. And I can't wait for y 'all to see my work. I'm excited about it. Same. I can't wait to see it. Thank you for doing it, dude. Absolutely, baby. That was a Hate Gum podcast.

56:05Fall never arrives all at once. first the air then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other a jacket meets a dress a hoodie slips beneath a blazer an old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall find fall your way at ross so you're not worried about hosting the whole family for the holidays why would i be Wayfair had everything I needed to get the house holiday ready. What if Mike brings his cheerful dogs? My tree has tons of five-star reviews telling me how sturdy it is. But what if everyone's plus one brings a plus one?

56:48We'll see how extendable this extendable table really is. And extra chairs are on the way. Okay. What if there's a blizzard and everyone has to sleep over? Ready to go with extra bedding and towels. From guest-ready essentials to holiday decor you can trust, Wayfair delivers.