In short
Taylor Tomlinson and Caleb Heron discuss why Taylor “isn’t settling,” focusing on unworthiness, fear of not being talented, boundaries/saying no, burnout from overworking, and what she wants in dating (especially needing a truly funny partner). They also swap stories about meeting at a benefit show, college gigs, and dating-app screening.
Guests
Taylor Tomlinson (stand-up comedian; hosts After Midnight; Netflix specials; former heavy college-gig circuit; talks about therapy and mood stabilizers). Caleb Heron (podcast host/comedian; runs/appears in comedy and interviews; shares his “Caleb’s house” hosting idea and dating-app experiences).
Key claims
Taylor’s relentless work ethic comes from “inherent unworthiness” and fear she isn’t talented/special enough, so she tries to earn respect through effort. She’s learning to rest, sleep more, and say no. In dating, she’s realizing she needs an actually funny person, not just banter or pop-culture quoting.
Notable examples
Their Kansas City benefit-show meeting; Taylor bombing/feeling nervous after following Caleb; college shows with pizza/extra credit and poor listening; her “unworthiness transfusion” bit; dating disappointment with gay men who treat Real Housewives/Drag Race quotes as humor; her preference for a bisexual, funny partner with “religious trauma.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMeeting in the Middle
0:13 to 0:49
Discussion about work ethic and finding balance in personal lives.
“By the way, I'm not pro Taylor get rid of her work ethic.”
Interview with Taylor Tomlinson
0:49 to 8:20
Caleb and Taylor discuss Taylor's journey, comedy, and artistic endeavors.
“Oh my gosh, it's so crazy to be inside my favorite podcast.”
Life and Boundaries
8:20 to 12:00
They talk about establishing boundaries and the importance of personal time.
Navigating Comedy and College Gigs
12:00 to 14:03
Taylor and Caleb share experiences and challenges in comedy shows at colleges.
“Well, that's how I conquered my fear of death.”
College Comedy Experiences
14:03 to 16:04
Learn about the challenges and awkward moments of performing stand-up in college settings.
“And now when they ask, I've turned down a lot of them because they're like, it has to be stand-up.”
Work Ethic and Self-Worth
16:04 to 19:04
Explore the relationship between work ethic, self-worth, and the fear of inadequacy.
“I'm like, we should probably meet in the middle.”
Talking to Yourself
19:04 to 23:21
Discuss the importance of self-talk and how it affects mental health.
“So that's, I mean, I think when you're somebody who's like, I think sees yourself correctly.”
Managing Sadness and Health
23:21 to 26:16
Discover strategies for coping with sadness and prioritizing health.
“If you heard the way I talk out loud to myself alone in my apartment, you're out loud talking to yourself.”
Balancing Life and Career
26:16 to 28:01
Learn about the balance between personal commitments and career opportunities in comedy.
“And then I realized you're on the road four or five days a week.”
Reflecting on a Comedy Show
28:01 to 29:14
Taylor and Caleb discuss their recent comedy show experience and performances.
“It was really like an amazing, beautiful, inspiring night.”
Show all 28 chapters
Reflecting on a Comedy Show
29:15 to 30:37
Taylor and Caleb discuss their recent comedy show experience and performances.
“well you guys i don't know if anyone's told you this yet but the april 15th tax deadline is rapidly approaching it's like i'm always saying the old way of doing taxes it led to so much unnecessary stress.”
Reflecting on a Comedy Show
30:49 to 31:38
Taylor and Caleb discuss their recent comedy show experience and performances.
“If we can find our perfect stay on booking.com, anyone can.”
Navigating the Dating Scene
32:30 to 38:24
Taylor shares her challenges and thoughts on dating, including her preferences and experiences.
“Because you're always on stage under lights and there's no one up there.”
Desires in Relationships
38:25 to 42:00
Taylor expresses her desires for a partner who shares her sense of humor and background.
“This is a dream vision board list, Caleb.”
Navigating Dating Apps
42:00 to 43:30
Caleb and Taylor discuss their experiences on dating apps and the challenges of connecting with fans.
“My Grindr is It's me smiling and my name Caleb.”
The Art of Cancelling Plans
43:30 to 44:40
They explore the reasons behind cancelling plans and the feelings associated with it.
“I am extremely busy and I don't see my actual friends.”
Expectations vs. Reality on Dates
44:40 to 46:30
The hosts discuss the disappointment that often accompanies dating experiences.
“It'd be like, oh, I agreed to go to paintball with seven lesbians or something.”
Setting Boundaries on Dates
46:30 to 48:20
Caleb and Taylor talk about the importance of establishing boundaries during first dates.
Voice Notes and Chemistry
48:20 to 51:10
They discuss the significance of voice notes and chemistry in dating scenarios.
“I can't do stuff like that because I have abandonment issues.”
Perceptions of Dates
51:10 to 53:10
The duo shares insights on how dates can feel different for each person involved.
“And a lot of, and by the way, a lot of the gay guys that were mask fishing, the voice prompt will bring the truth to light.”
Denzel Washington's Wisdom
53:10 to 56:00
They reflect on a memorable Denzel Washington quote about taking something from every experience.
Denzel Washington and Jamie Foxx Insight
56:00 to 59:02
The hosts discuss a memorable clip of Denzel Washington and Jamie Foxx that inspires humor and reflection.
“And so when you're like, what's the worst thing that's ever happened to you?”
The Ideal Friendship with Jamie Foxx
59:02 to 1:02:55
Caleb shares a whimsical vision of building a friendship with Jamie Foxx before inviting him to the podcast.
“And then we do a beautiful So True episode.”
Dating Preferences and Personal Growth
1:02:55 to 1:08:19
Taylor explores her dating history and preferences regarding attractiveness and personal connection.
“I was, I think making a lot of compromises where I was like, you don't need all the things you want.”
Hotel Experience and Human Connection
1:08:19 to 1:10:02
Taylor recounts a humorous and heartfelt hotel experience that emphasizes the importance of human interactions.
“And he goes, well, if I see you again, I'll come do it again.”
The Meaning of Life
1:10:02 to 1:10:29
Exploring the joy of meaningful interactions.
“Talking to that guy is the reason to be alive.”
True or False Game
1:10:31 to 1:13:22
Engaging in a rapid-fire true or false game with humorous moments.
“If you get 10 or more correct, I think you know.”
Taylor Tomlinson's Special
1:13:23 to 1:13:38
Taylor shares where to watch her latest comedy special.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Wave. By the way, I'm not pro Taylor get rid of her work ethic. I think it's awesome. I'm like, we should probably meet in the middle. I probably need to be more like you and maybe you could be a little more like me in the regards of saying yes and no. I mean, you do a lot. I do plenty, but I'm not on your level. And I want to know, like, where do you think that comes from?
0:34What is that about? Probably from a place of inherent unworthiness. Let's go! I've been to therapy.
0:48Today's episode is presented by Intuit TurboTax. Now this is Taxes. Taylor! Hello! What's up, girl? Oh my gosh, it's so crazy to be inside my favorite podcast. You're in the SoTrudio. It's so nuts. That is too sweet of you. It's not sweet. It's true. I really mean it. You got to stop. No, because most times I do a podcast and I'll like go listen to a few of the most recent ones to be like, okay, what's like the vibe? And with yours, I was like, I've listened to every single one and some of them twice. Who are your faves? Who are my faves? I mean, I just listen to Chris Fleming because obviously Chris is like, I watched his special too.
1:25And Chris, I mean, it's so like, it's boring to talk about what a genius Chris is because everybody - It's all we do. It's all we do. And everybody knows now. And he quite frankly doesn't need it. But like, God, like every time I watch him, I'm just like, am I terrible at standup? Like, am I, am I like the least creative, funny person in the world? Like, cause that's just, but then I put Chris in like a different category where I go like, okay, well, what he's doing is something else. Like that's like in a more special place and I'm doing regular standup. It's kind of like when you do like, um, when you do math, you have to take off the best number and the worst number.
2:01Yeah. It's like that. And you just got to take Chris out of the equation and then you go, Oh, the numbers make a lot more sense when he's not involved. Like I feel like that about my standup. Like I'll watch Chris and I'll be like, so he has access to something that I never in a million years will get close to knowing. Yep. And once I take him out of the equation, I go, I'm pretty good at this. Yeah. Yeah. He is so good. And it's so funny. I did a big phone interview for like his vulture. They did like a huge vulture piece on him. Yes, yeah. And I talked for like 45 minutes effusively about Chris.
2:31I was like, he is like an incredibly principled person. He's so smart. He's so lovely and warm. And like, I think he's like a level of brilliant that like most of us can only hope to even come close to. Just waxing, glazing Chris. And then I think, I didn't read the whole interview, but I think the one thing they put in there for me was like, Chris doesn't care what parties he gets invited to and I was like you guys like you just like call like what oh Chris doesn't give a fuck Chris is kind of a bitch click like I was just I texted Chris and I was like hey just so you know I gave like really sweet comments and then I did read a little bit more of the piece and it was Chris being like every podcaster is a charlatan and I was like okay well that's a big sound going around on TikTok from that episode right is like there's something waiting for me in the divine for resisting podcasting.
3:22Do you know? Oh, you're not on TikTok. From our show? Yes, from that episode with Chris. It's going viral right now. Oh, people are using it? Yep. Hey, good job, you guys. I forget you're not on TikTok, which is like, I mean, you're kind of my hero in every way. Taylor. Like, I was a fan of yours, and then I met you in person, and I was like, fuck. Like, God, I told everyone for the following week after I met you at that fundraiser, I was like, Caleb Heron's like as good as we want him to be. I was like, you guys. All the staff shaking their heads no. Solemnly. Solemnly, Taylor, you know not what you do.
3:51Like when we got coffee in LA afterward, I was like, you guys, Caleb kind of changed my life today. Did you know you could say no? Okay, that is true. We did have a really good talk about that. Did you know you could cancel stuff? Like I really, I left. We hung out for like an hour and I was like, I think I owe Caleb money. You do. I do. And you invoiced me. I sent an invoice. You did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I ignored it because you taught me that. Boundaries. No, that's far too sweet. We met in person finally because I begged you to come and do my benefit show. You didn't have to beg me. That made it sound like you were saying no.
4:24Literally, I sent a very pathetic, like, I'm a huge fan. Would you please come do this benefit show? And you're like, yeah, of course. That is so funny that that was your experience because here's what happened on my end. I was on the road with my sibling, Brian, and Sophie Buttle. Do you know Sophie? Yeah, we haven't had the chance to meet, but she's very funny. She's so funny. And we were on the road. we were in our hotel room and we were like getting ready for the show or something and your dm came in and i went oh my god kelly here and dm'd me because i was like such a fan and i waited to open it until the show was over because i didn't know what it was about oh i love playing that game and i was like oh my god okay we're gonna open it later and then i open it and you were just like hey it came off so breezy you were like hey if you happen to be available would love to have you uh you know kansas city tennis union if you're around smiley face and i was like well I gotta do that yeah gotta do that in between tour dates I had checked your touring schedule and I knew that you had that night like technically free so I was like hey if you if you want us I wanted to make it sound breezy because I didn't want you to feel like I would think you were some bad person if you didn't use your night off to come to a benefit show so I was like if you if you're available like I know you're going to Phoenix or whatever but I try to make it that you know it's a benefit show so I don't ever want people to feel like they have to come and I was Caleb knows how powerful he is that he could get anyone to fly to Kansas City.
5:45That is not true. I would love that, though. On a Wednesday night. I think you kind of are. I want you to come and stay at my house for a little while. I would love to. That was such a nice offer, too. You were like, you can stay at my house. And I was like, he doesn't mean that. Oh, I mean it. So I'm not going to. Oh, I mean it. Do you really? I want you to come stay. You know who's at my house right now? Who's at your house? My house in Kansas City. I'm obviously not there. There is a lesbian and her dog. There is a gay man and his cat. There is a punk band from LA and then there is a non-binary couple from Chicago passing through and they're all just I just put them on a group message and I was like figure it out you guys.
6:19That's the reality show I want to watch. You should pitch that and call it Caleb's house. I'm going to set up cameras. You're never there. No. But it's just cameras. It's just you watching the people staying in your house. Panopticon. And then they have to do like what are those confessionals? Yes. About each other. They don't know each other. Because how many bedrooms is it? It's like 10 bedrooms. Oh, no. I wouldn't probably say that. Oh, yeah. Sorry. It's like three and a half bedrooms, right? You're so down to earth. Oh, it's a studio, really. No, you have no money. You're a man of the people.
6:48No, it's a nice place. And I'm so glad that people get to stay there. But I don't ever get to be there. So it's turned into this funny thing where my friend Addie, since she's staying there the longest right now, she's taken over on the message being like, hey, guys, here's how you get in. Let me know if you need anything. I can put out some towels. That's nice. It's just become kind of like a self-running Airbnb where nobody makes money. I saw on Instagram you did a story where you were like, I want to do like an artist's retreat at my house. I thought that was so cool. I really want to. I want to get my artist friends to come and eventually I'd like to pay people for it.
7:20But I want people to come and make their work there. Because I have this dream for this house that like, the house is like 100 something years old. and I'm like in the next like however long I have it I want to like infuse it with like a bunch of creative energy and have people make their stuff there and like I'd like to maybe put like a recording studio or something in the basement so people could like record there that's so cool all for free I just want people to I just want the energy in the house of like people making stuff you know that's so cool I think it'd be neat see this is what I love about you is every time I hear you talk I'm just like Caleb's like living life the way you're supposed to Taylor you know like sorry i'm and speaking of like speaking of living like the way you're supposed to well you're not gonna succeed in making this episode about me though i know that you would like it and i entertained it for a second because it's early and i'm kind of like it's a little cozy to have you be nice to me but you're not gonna get your way i am bad at that in interviews i'm always like what about your childhood and they're like i'm a journalist like leave me alone taylor literally yesterday i had an interview i won't say the publication because then people know who it is and i don't want to make her uncomfortable but i had an interview with a big outlet for um press stuff coming up and I I because I'm we're curious people you and I and I was like uh she was like oh yeah you know English isn't my first language so I didn't understand something like that and I was like oh my god what's your first language and she was like uh no you're not gonna interview me and I was like she's like nice fucking try I know that trick I'm not trying to put it off of me I just am like I am curious and then she gave me 30 minutes after we went off when we stopped the interview she was like all right ask your questions and I was like okay your kids like I was like she gave me time to get into it okay good that's nice but yeah it is a deflection tactic as well when you don't want to answer the question they have so i'm sure that's part of it is they're like i guess it is don't do that i don't the funny thing is like using it as a deflection like i've never met a question i didn't want to answer and really you've never met a question you didn't want to answer i don't i'm like what would i i don't think i can think of a chance can you think of one that i'm like there i will say the only thing we come close to something what did you think of just things about like your family certain things about like there there's like one to two things about my family that people really push on that I'm like I have said what I want to say about that situation I to me the it's not that I won't answer anything it's like whatever answer I give is the answer yeah it's not for you to poke and prod and find more if I want to give more I'll give more because I'm an open person but I think other than that it's just sometimes when you're doing interviews like the 17th question about the same viral bit it's like yeah people know you from it's like stop they we already have done this well every video of you people are quoting your viral jokes that you've made like on tiktok like all the top comments are just things you've said in a way that like you know like straight guys in high school used to quote the office all the time like it was their joke like i'm that for non-binary teenagers i'm stepbrothers for they them teenagers yeah the new the new that's what she said is looks like he broke into the bakery and ate all the pie that's the new that's what she said god whatever um one thing that you and i have talked a lot about and as you know everything is cuttable we don't have to talk about this if you don't want to but you work so hard that's so nice you really and it's it's a fact like you really do work so hard and say yes to so much It's because I'm not naturally gifted.
10:40That's not true. If I had your personality, I'd be coasting. You try. You try to deflect from my compliment, but it's not working. You'll have to wake up a little earlier in the morning to get one over on me, Taylor. No, it's not true. You are naturally gifted, and you're also obsessed with craft, I think, and you've put in the work anyway, which is what makes you so good, and I know this is making you uncomfortable, but you do work so hard, and I do wonder, when are you going to take your foot off the gas? Do you feel like it's coming up soon? I mean that's the thing is like before I started hosting after midnight I was like I'm gonna take six months off because I need it and then that job came up and I took that job and I said okay I guess not now and then I had my special and like now I'm in a place where well I canceled the like last two months of my tour but it was because I got really sick so that didn't really feel like a few months off and I was like working on my book and editing my special so it wasn't like I was doing nothing but that was a really big deal for me to even take like a few months off of touring like this is the first time I've been on a plane in a few months which is like crazy for me so that felt like a big step in the right direction and then this year I don't have any tour dates planned like I'll probably go do clubs to work on a new hour because I'm just always doing that because I love doing stand-up but I'm not like making myself go on a big tour that you know i won't feel like i can get out of or anything so this year is more about you know i think writing and that being said i have to put out a book in like september so i just i know i really i keeps every year i keep going and next year nothing and it doesn't quite ever happen well nothing will probably never yeah i think nothing will probably never happen but yeah no well maybe i might get canceled you might maybe on this pod you might we can get there we get there right i you canceled yeah i said i set out on a plot to get you canceled so that you relax a little bit and then in like in like four months when i feel like you've really rested i retract everything yeah i go i i lied about that girl bring her back that was actually we ai'd her face to say all that uh yeah it's like a really crude like your your lips being moved like paper mache or something i do i do think about that sometimes though i go oh man what if i say the wrong thing and everyone's mad at me and then i go well you could stop you know i know isn't that nice then you could run away and there'd be a reason.
12:59Well, that's how I conquered my fear of death. Was just starting to go like, it would solve a lot of problems. Yes. Oh my God, yes. I think I tried that. I joke like that on stage at Larner where I was like, I go, I'm so scared to die. But then I go, but then I'd be dead. Yeah. Then I get to be dead. Sometimes if I'm doing like a college gig or something and I say something earnest and the audience is like nodding along or they go like, they go like, or something like that and it's not a laugh I feel cagey. I'm like what are you doing to me? Are you doing a talk or are you doing a stand up? I do a lot of Q &As at colleges now.
13:35All Q &A? All Q &A. Oh that's awesome. An hour of Q &A at colleges. I've been doing a lot of them. See again that's how you know you have a great personality because when they hire me for colleges they're like you better bring material. You better be doing hard jokes that you've polished. No they ask me to bring material and I say no I'm not doing that. Because I did a couple of there was a like a year there where i would say yes to doing stand-up at colleges and then it's horrible i did a lot of colleges it's horrible they'll put you in a room with 200 feet ceilings uh the lights are there it's lit for like a cafeteria setting yep the students are somehow sitting at round tables it's set for 3 000 it's on the night of finals yeah so 20 kids come in sweatpants they're they're all getting extra credit to be there it's free they came for free pizza They want the pizza.
14:23I did it and I was like, never again. And now when they ask, I've turned down a lot of them because they're like, it has to be stand-up. And I'm like, then no. Wow. I can't do it. Because it was soul destroying. Yeah. I was like, I can't. I mean, that's how I started doing stand-up full time is I was doing colleges when I was like 21. I was doing a lot of colleges. At 21. Which was so stupid. I was their age. Yeah. And nobody was there on purpose. I mean, we were like tricking kids into a show. like we were genuinely in the cafeteria while people were eating and then they'd be like and a comedian's here and everyone's like what like who like it was so weird but it was a lot of like it's a lot of crowd work like at that point because no one's listening or i would like show up thinking i was supposed to do stand-up and they were like you're gonna host our greek life talent show no oh yeah which was mostly just me going out when there were technical difficulties or someone needed to like do a costume change and they'd like send me out there and everyone was screaming and yelling and like not listening and i remember i went back between acts at one point and i go you guys i don't think they i mean they're not really listening and the girl goes well if you do jokes they'll listen and i went okay and i went out the next time and i tried to start a joke and they just started chanting for the next guy who was coming on so i'm like anyway so it's kind of weird when you're dating and they're like manny manny manny and i was like i am gonna leave and when they paid me for the gig the people who paid me were like we're really sorry so they knew yeah they were like they're like hey i'm so sorry we put you through that here's your 700 yeah and i was like it's totally fine in five years on the tonight show backstage they're gonna ask me what was the worst time i bombed and i now have an answer yeah thank you don't worry you gave me a tonight show story don't worry about it that is so fucking funny dude yeah it's not i yeah i don't uh i don't know how you do all the stuff you're doing and i do i'm trying to get you to settle down that's my big goal i know last when we hung out you were very much like well why why don't you just stop like why don't you just take a minute and i'm like you can do that you're like i just went to europe for like three weeks by myself and i was like what like that's what's so frustrating is because you say stuff and it just sounds so like it makes so much sense and you make it sound so easy but then i go back to my life and it's like it's like you've been in space floating and then you land back on earth and you're like oh right gravity but i've been floating around with you where you're like say no who cares and then i'm back on the ground just like oh my god i'm so heavy again like i'm just like just weighed down by all these these commitments i've made what do you think what What do you think the fear of saying no or like you're, I mean, you do just have an objectively, you have an objectively insane work ethic that I don't, by the way, I'm not, I'm not pro Taylor, get rid of her work ethic.
17:11I think it's awesome. I'm like, we should probably meet in the middle. I probably need to be more like you and maybe you could be a little more like me in the, in the regards of saying yes and no. I mean, you do a lot. I do plenty, but I'm not on your level. And I want to know like, what do you, where do you think that comes from? What is that about? I'm probably from a place of inherent unworthiness. Let's go. I've been to therapy. Who out there feel unworthy? Jump, jump, get up, get up, get up, get up. If you're feeling unworthy, make some noise. No, I think there's probably a deep, deep fear that I am probably not talented or special enough to get by on who I am as a person.
18:00So I need to at least be someone that everybody agrees, like, well, she's trying really hard. You know, like we respect the fact that she's working really hard. So it's okay that we don't think she's that talented or something like that. Yeah. We need to find a medicine that will take this feeling from undeserving people like you and give it to the people who need to feel that way. Right. Sort of an unworthiness transfusion. Yes, an unworthiness transfusion from the worthy yourself. This is the imbalance in our society is that a bunch of people like you who should not ever even have that feeling cross their mind, the scent of that feeling shouldn't even waft in your direction.
18:39And then the people who are the absolute worst among us are literally waking up in the morning and being like, I'm the fucking best. I know. And that's what keeps you away from feeling worthy because you go, well, the second I feel worthy, I'm one of those people who doesn't know and everyone's walking around going that's a piece of shit I think you've paid your penance towards that idea I feel like at a certain point you go like alright I think I did enough years of doubting my worthiness and stuff now I can go self-obsessed mode and I think it'll all even out self-obsessed mode do you think you're self-obsessed mode am I self-obsessed mode self-obsessed mode who's doing it right doing it right well self-obsessed is probably not the right word is the issue yeah like i probably didn't use the right term for that but i actually would support you being self-obsessed for a little bit i think that people call it delusional well no but it's not delusional because i want you to be obsessed with the things about yourself that are just true and present and great and so i don't need you to be delusional i would give delusion to my untalented friends i don't need you to have delusion well you know what the problem them is I can see myself from every angle and some of them are bad.
19:51So that's, I mean, I think when you're somebody who's like, I think sees yourself correctly. I mean, it's the same thing with like dating, like you're not the right person for every single person you're going to go out with, but for someone you're perfect or their soulmate, you're their dream. But for somebody else, you're like a nightmare and just a bouquet of red flags. So that's kind of where I'm always operating from is a place of like okay well you're really great but you also suck a lot and it just depends on who's interacting with you and everyone's opinion of you is correct probably to some degree which is exhausting uh to feel that way because i really also when i figured out that i needed mood stabilizers it was like oh all the times that i felt great about myself i was hypomanic so that really fucked with me for a little while where i was like oh shit like was that like not real or something but now i miss it now i'm like oh man i could use a little hypomania missing my mania yeah i'm missing a little bit bring back my mania i know because i really that was self-obsessed mode i was like it's all happening for me and look i have four specials on netflix so it didn't not work i'm saying bring back the mania i know i know no don't bring back the mania not actually no i i think the closest i've gotten recently is a Sudafed PE and I was like whoa I want to see you on the Sudafed it was great I want to be with you off the Sudafed Taylor's off the Sudafed get her out get her outside we need to get her to the karaoke bar now and I'm like I'm one of the greats and they're like what happened I'm like I took two yeah Taylor's cool except when she gets on Sudafed she gets really cocky it's interesting the thing you say about everyone's uh everyone has an opinion about me on their right I operate I think from the opposite of like everyone has an opinion about me and either they're wrong or it doesn't matter like I'm like I know everyone has an opinion about me and I think I think mostly I go with they're wrong just because I'm like they don't know like most people don't know me right you know what I mean like most people that have an opinion about me don't actually know me regardless of what they think they know and so when it's positive or negative I go you if it's positive I go that's sweet but you can't really know and if it's negative I go well you're fucked in the head and you also don't really know you know what I mean and I think that is a diff that's a difference that I'm noticing but it's similar in that I give everybody credit for their opinion and I go everybody's right and you go everybody's wrong like I accept not the super positive or the super negative that's that's what I'm saying is I think that's interesting is that neither of us is taking that in yeah I'm also not really internalizing the praise my self-worth comes from my own praise but I don't I try not to engage how do you do that?
22:33I just like myself. And I'm not turning shit around. I'm asking for me. I like myself. I don't know. I just, it's fun. I go, I talk to myself and I go, you're all right. That's how you talk to yourself. I go, well, sometimes it's bad, but most of the time I genuinely, most of the time I go, I go, Hey, you need to work on that. And that's okay. You're good at working on things. You're good. Or you go, I go like, I noticed a problem in myself and I go, Ooh, we should work on that. But it's not as big as a lot of people's problems. Don't stress out too much about it, you're good. And then I do work on stuff, but you know what I'm saying?
23:05I just try to frame everything as positively as I can. When I was younger, I definitely did not. And I just think I, yeah, I just kind of, I tried to get to a place where I'm just like, it's okay. You're good. Okay. I talk to myself. I talk to myself really gently now these days. Yeah. You're like gentle parenting yourself. These days it's embarrassing. If you heard the way I talk out loud to myself alone in my apartment, you're out loud talking to yourself. Oh my God. It's humiliating Taylor. No, that's good. You're supposed to do that. If anyone ever heard this, my neighbors might actually know how sick I am.
23:33Like I am. I will walk around my apartment and be like, this place is a mess. That's okay.
23:42That's like the jinx shit. Like, hey, sometimes we have messy apartments, buddy. I'm literally, I call myself buddy. Hey buddy, sometimes the apartment's messy. We'll just clean it up. That's so nice. Shit like that. Crazy. Oh, the only time I speak out loud alone is, and I've just started doing this and it does weirdly help, is when I get really depressed. I just go out loud. I'm really sad. Who out there feeling really sad? I thought that was going to hit differently in this room. I thought everyone was going to go, good job. But no, that was not a joke at all. No, it's sweet in a way. But you just say, I'm really sad out loud.
24:21I go, I'm really sad. What does it do for you? You know, I think because when I was younger, I was every time I got depressed, I would get mad at myself because it meant that I wasn't doing enough. I was like, well, you should have run more today or you should have eaten more spinach or you should have lifted weights this morning. You should have gotten up earlier. You should have been outside. You like I go through the laundry list of like all the things I didn't do, because when I was a kid, it was like, oh, if you're depressed, you're not praying hard enough. You're not working out. You're not eating right.
24:50and so that was where my brain usually went and now being older and being like sometimes you're going to be sad a lot of the time you're going to be sad and it's fine and acknowledging it and sitting with it is like that's the growth for me is I just go okay I'm really sad right now and I guess that's sort of my way of saying and it's okay you're okay buddy yeah yeah I think that's totally lovely and i think i i do the same thing when i have a bad day where i'm like feeling so negative sad or upset or whatever i will when i find my when i catch myself in it i will be like is today a wash or can we fix this and the answer is sometimes we can fix this and i go no you need to take a shower go on a walk uh come home put on some clean clothes read a book do your laundry like there are days when i'm like you can fix this and you need to and then there are days where I'm like it's a wash today we're gonna feel bad today we're feeling bad today you can do whatever you want you can you can cancel plans you can get totally stoned you can do whatever the fuck you want today's a wash but then tomorrow we got to get back to it that's really nice yeah that's something that I've tried to get better about not so much with like depression but I'm better about that with my health now because I'm like okay if you get sick you need to like shut it all down because otherwise you're not going to get better and you can't really do that to yourself anymore we did that for years and years and years and i think you've run out of grace yeah physically i feel that too yeah yeah it's that it's that starting out and like busting your ass to make a career thing where you're just like whatever it takes i'll sleep three hours a night and then you get to a place where you're like hey this has got to stop probably yeah where i'm like oh i can't take red eyes every week anymore because for years you just do that on the road you're like well that's the cheapest flight and i'm trying to save as much money as I can when I'm on the road.
26:38And then I realized you're on the road four or five days a week. That's most of your life. You need to spend a little bit of that money on a hotel that's safe and a flight that's not at four in the morning. Yeah. Like that was a big difference for me and has made a big difference as far as like my quality of life and just prioritizing sleep as well. Cause like the fact that I wasn't sleeping was most of the reason I was so unwell mentally and physically for so much of my twenties. Of course, it's like the most important thing we can do yeah it's like sleeping and drinking water they have to happen yeah which is why when you do press in new york and you're like on west coast time and they're like no one should ever put a comedian on live tv on 120 minutes of sleep no like first thing in the morning and i'm always like what am i doing here like this is crazy and it fucks me up for a few days and it's just like yeah it's just kind of not worth it anymore to not sleep for a night you know so but i do say no to a lot more than I used to.
27:34And that was what was kind of fun about getting your DM about the fundraiser. It was the first time in a long time that something had come in where I went, well, I'm doing that, like, no matter what, like, I'll have to go do that for sure. Cause I don't really have that anymore. When you're younger coming up in comedy, like every opportunity is, well, I have to do that. Like, I just have to make it work. I have to do that. And it was nice to feel that feeling on like a personal level where I was like, well, I have to go do that. I have to go meet Caleb. Yeah. And we had a good time. We had a great time.
28:03It was really like an amazing, beautiful, inspiring night. Like I was really happy to be a part of it. Yeah. You came. You killed. You made a very, very kind donation to the Tenet Union. I did not kill. I will say that. I bombed kind of hard. At my show? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Girl, we are going to have to do something. I had a rough set. You in reality are in a fight. You in reality are in a fight to the death and at the moment you're winning somehow. Well, you know what's so funny is I had to follow you, which I was like, okay, this is not going to go great. And then I went out and I don't know why I thought this would be funny, but I went out and you had been talking about Devil Wars Prada too.
28:40And I said, thinking everyone would know it was a joke. I went so crazy. I'm also in the Devil Wars Prada too. But then people just clapped because I forgot I'm successful now. Sounds good. And I thought everyone would be like, ha ha ha. They would never put you in that. But no, everyone just clapped. And then I had to go, oh no, I'm so sorry. I was just nervous about following Caleb. and then everyone was like what so that was we were proud of you yeah yeah it felt like missing a step on the stairs to like start to start the set off you in the battle against reality the idea that you bombed at this show is crazy
29:15well you guys i don't know if anyone's told you this yet but the april 15th tax deadline is rapidly approaching it's like i'm always saying the old way of doing taxes it led to so much unnecessary stress. Things like sitting in a waiting room, handing over a pile of papers. Don't we hate a pile of papers, folks? And then staring across a desk for hours or sending emails back and forth, God forbid. Still wondering if they really understand your situation. Well, it sounds like dating, right? Only to find out that something's being missed. These are all things we need to leave in the past. I'm happy to report that this year brings a major upgrade.
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33:10Because you're always on stage under lights and there's no one up there. So like, and part of me, when I took the after midnight job, I was like, maybe I'll meet someone on set and I don't have to stop working and I can kind of double up. And then it was just like the nicest, most platonic set you've ever seen in your life. Everyone's like wonderful, lovely friends. I think our PAs started dating and I was like, fuck, like, god damn it. I wanted to fuck the PAs. God damn it. No, I was like, so someone found love here. Just making sure someone found love. Everyone's fucking each other and no one's fucking me.
33:47Just kidding. Well, I actually didn't think you were allowed to date people at work. And then I had HR. I have a joke about it in the special, but I had HR training. And they were like, no, you can if you tell us. And I was like, every show I've ever seen is like the big issue is like we can't date because we work together. and that's just fiction? It's crazy. The funny thing is the policy is just like HR gets to know about it. Exactly. If you tell us. As long as you let us know how did it go? How is it? You guys can do it as long as you fill us in girl. What are you looking for? Taylor, what are you looking for?
34:23Tell me now. You know there are probably anywhere between 10 to 100 people that listen to this show and some of them might be eligible for you. What are you looking for? Maybe they'll find you. Oh my gosh. You know what? I mean, what's really devastating that I've realized recently is I do unfortunately think I want someone funny. Taylor, I know. Doesn't that suck? Doesn't that make you sick? It makes me sick. Because now it just got more impossible. It got so hard. I have a friend who wants to date a millionaire and I'm like, that is easier to do, I think, than finding someone really funny. There's more of them.
34:57There's more of them. There's more millionaires than funny people. There really is. Genuinely funny people. No, I'm sick to hear this from you because saying. Because for years, I don't know if you do this, but for years I would kind of go back and forth because I would like date a comedian and then it would fall apart and I would go, well, I can't date comedians. And then I would date a normal person and then I would go, that doesn't work either. And so then I'd go back to like someone in this business or a comedian. And so I'd kind of flip flop. But the last couple of people I've dated have been more like normal people.
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35:28and uh i have and they were great and but i still like i don't know i just i'm like when did i stop thinking i was worthy of that requirement i guess because i just when i was younger i was like that's number one they have to be funny and then i got older and i was like that's a big ask i guess and everyone around us is funny like all our friends are so funny so you go okay well you don't get everything from your partner but i can get funny from all my friends and then you're like but the person i'm gonna hang out with forever the most is not funny i don't know because there's lots of people who can hang there's like a lot of people who have good senses of humor and will laugh and can like you know banter a little bit but there's a difference between banter and being funny yeah it's tough i need someone funny and i'm realizing it and it's making me sick it's so hard because now i'm going on dates with these gay men and boy some things i used to let slide are not working anymore.
36:25Really? Like what? You know, a lot of gay guys, I love gay guys, okay? Gay guys are like a totally foundational part of my chosen, like my found family, my community. I would do anything for gay guys. Gay guys, I love you. That having been said, a lot of times I'll go on dates with these gay guys and look, we have a problem. Something happened when we got accepted. Maybe it was the legalization of gay marriage. I don't want them to get rid of it. But something happened where a lot of gay guys lost their touch. And now there are a sizable amount of gay guys who think that quoting Real Housewives and Drag Race exclusively is them being funny.
37:02And that is, of course, not true. And it's not funny really at all. And so I'm going on these dates and I'm going, God, he's cute. He's got a good job. He seems to have a lot of friends and love in his life. Like all these green flags. And then the only time he really says something even in the cadence of a joke is him repeating something that some horrible woman said on TV. yeah and i just can't deal with it i'm sorry those women are horrible and i just can't deal with it and so i have come to a place where i'm like no i think i actually i'm gonna need to find someone who has a sense of humor yeah i know an actual like an actual point of view no but i i look around at who's a good example oh i have a great example so like my friend kelsey cook one of my best friends i don't know if you know she's so funny she is engaged to chad daniels who is also an incredible comedian and that's really fucked my shit up the last few years they shouldn't do yes because i was like it's fine and by the way her ex was also a comedian so she's just been dating she's been in long-term relationships with really funny guys and i'm like fuck me man like i thought we were all gonna settle i thought we were all just gonna find people who thought we were great yeah and you know would sort of bask in our light yeah and like bring other things to the table when did everyone decide we're not settling yeah it's like what i just got comfortable with the idea and now everybody's like finding their true love it's bullshit so the two of them and they have like a podcast and i'll see clips of them and i'm like that looks amazing like i want to do bits with somebody at home yeah that looks great every time i do bits with somebody i'm not at home and it sucks i was at work or on camera and i'm like i want to do it at home in bed yeah i want that for you this is good to hear i know i'm putting it out there i also wanted i would I would love ideally another bisexual person.
38:51Yeah? Yeah. I think that's what I would like. Ideally. If we're going like ideally. Yes. Another very funny bisexual person. Now, why do they need to be bisexual? They don't need to be anything. Yeah. This is a dream vision board list, Caleb. Well, I'm sorry. Let me rephrase the question. Because I would also like another bisexual person for you. Yeah. Thank you. But I'm curious. What is the wanting them to be bisexual of it all? Are you guys going to swing together? I just. No. or is it just so that they understand though so you can both be like oh my god that girl and that guy yeah i just i don't know i just kind of want someone who like i just want my best friend who like gets every part of me yeah you know i just want somebody who like grew up with religious trauma and is also bisexual and is really funny yeah and now that i've said it the universe has to give it to me and it will because that's how it works with manifesting if you're looking for a queer person with religious trauma, I got great news.
39:49The pool is big. I know. And I know most of them. And actually, most of them listen to this show. That's why I'm saying it on this podcast. That's why I came here today. You wouldn't respond to a DM, would you? I have. Yeah? I mean, from like a stranger, it depends. It depends if they because it's hard when people DM you and then you look at their page and there's nothing there. Yeah. And you're like, did you really think that I was going to say sure? Yeah. to going to drinks in Chicago where I do not live with someone who has no hard posts and their profile picture is of a motorcycle. Like, did you really think that I was just going to be like, oh sure.
40:26Like that doesn't make any sense to me. I've had some, some people flirt with me in the DMs. Well, a lot of people for me in the DMs. Most of them are civilians. Yes, yes, yes. Not comedians and they most of them are just like it's it's really crazy like i'm like it they're so age inappropriate or they're so it just makes no sense uh but then sometimes there'll be someone that like they message me something cute that seems like i'm like oh this person seems normal and funny and i go to click on the profile the profile picture is like a group photo from 300 feet away and then the profile itself is locked it's a private profile and i'm like well you know i'm not going to accept that message like i can't even give you the chance even though the message was cute, it's fucked up.
41:08From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff, like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in! Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. So weird, and if you are going to DM someone you don't know at all, send a photo or something. Well, Instagram won't let people send photos to like, I don't know if your account's like this, mine can't get photos. What? They can't send me photos. I thought you just had to accept the message to see the photo. Oh, see, but I can't. I'm not accepting the message until I know what's up.
41:42I'm not going to accept the message on the whim because the photo could be something crazy. Yeah, but then you've just seen a crazy photo. There's a lot of fucked up shit on the internet. But then they see that I've seen it. Well, then they've seen that you've seen it and, you know. But I'm on Grindr. You know, like, I gotta get off Grindr, actually. I have no experience. It's like at a point where it's like I should not be on Grindr. Full face on Maine. My Grindr is It's me smiling and my name Caleb. Like, it's just me. I know. I talked to you about doing dating apps because you told me you were on Hinge.
42:12And I was like, you're on Hinge? You're too famous for that. I'm on Hinge. Really? Oh, I'm on Hinge. But don't you go on a lot of dates that are just meet and greets? I've gotten really good at sorting that out. You have. You never end up on a date with someone who, like, lied about not seeing any of your stuff or not knowing who you are. And then you're on the date. And then it's clear that they have. And they did. And they lied. Maybe twice. Not that that's ever happened to me. No, maybe twice, but it was sweet both times that they were like, hey, I obviously have like seen your stuff, but I didn't want to make you uncomfortable.
42:42Which is great. That's nice. That one's fine. I've never had anyone like Trojan horse show up to the date just because they're a fan. Yeah. Usually they will message me and be like, like sometimes guys will try to be like, hey, I'm a huge fan. I'd love to take you for a drink, but it's not romantic just so you know if you'd be into that. And I'm like, well, of course not. I have no desire. I don't need to make a friend. I'm not like 12 at a new school. Yeah. Sorry. I'm like a grown adult with plenty of friends. Like, no, I don't need to make a new friend. Unless I will say the only time I'm receptive to that is when I'm solo traveling abroad.
43:13Oh, then you'll. I'll be like, I'll be like, fuck yeah, let's go get a drink platonically. Really? Yeah. Cause then I'm like, that's fine. Now I have no friends over here. I'm bored. I'm trying to see the city. You live here. Then I accept it. Yeah. But if I'm in New York and a guy messages me on Grindr and I was like, do you want to be friends? I'm like, well, no, no, no shade, but absolutely not. Yeah. I'm very busy. I am extremely busy and I don't see my actual friends. Actually, my friends are pretty upset with me. Right, yeah. I asked you to hang out and I was like, by the way, you can cancel on me.
43:42And I didn't want to. That was sweet though. Well, that's again, probably low self-worth. But also, I'm like, Caleb's so busy. If he needs to cancel, that's fine. And anybody really busy gets it. I'm never really canceling due to busy. I'm always canceling due to some sort of spiritual message I've downloaded from the universe. Oh, that's saying you need to. Just be sad today? No, not usually sad. It's more like I'm supposed to have three meetings in the afternoon, but they're a little spread out. And the universe speaks to me via several different messages and carriers and says to me, you should take the afternoon off and go to the park.
44:18Oh. And then I received that message from the universe and I put it into action. Do you ever get scared that you're going to cancel something, go out in public, someone's going to see you, and then it's going to get back to the people you canceled on that you were just in the park? I don't lie. Oh, you don't. you go I need to be in the park today I don't I'll say I need to be in the park today or I'll say hey I can't do this anymore and then if I serious 100 % and then if I saw them in the park I'd be like hey this is why I couldn't do it had to be in the park I'm a human being I deserve to go to the park I'm obsessed with you it's fun to go to the park that's incredible I would never I'm always coming up with a reason really yes of course I rarely if it was something really inappropriate to cancel like a huge work obligation then I guess maybe I would come up with a reason but for the most part especially with friends I try to just be like hey I'm not feeling this anymore the way I thought I would be when we planned it so I need to if you had said that to me I would have been devastated not mean style there's no nice way to say hey I'm just not feeling seeing you today this isn't hitting for me the idea of your company it's just I really thought I would get to Tuesday and I'd go I would love to catch up with them and I got here and guess what you're crazy girl It wouldn't be just sitting and talking with a friend.
45:29It'd be like, oh, I agreed to go to paintball with seven lesbians or something. Have you done that? And then, of course, you have no idea the kind of things I can get into with lesbians. These lesbians are, they're planning activities that you can't even imagine. Oh, yeah, no, paintball with seven lesbians. Tracks. Yeah, you've got to be in the right headspace for that. They always want to do something kooky. And sometimes the day I'll come around and I'll go, I'm not the guy who said yes to this anymore. Right. I'm a different guy. I'm not the guy who said yes to this anymore. yes to this he's smiling down on us right now he wants you guys to have so much fun but the guy who's in me right now cannot get on a party bus that's true there i do i do make some plans and then when those plans come up if i were being honest when i cancel i would say i thought i would be different by wednesday but i'm not it's still me i release a dove for him yeah i released a dove for the caleb who said yes to this and i say and i said au revoir i i send him off into the universe and i say god i love that he thought we would do this yeah but the me who is me today cannot show up to game night yeah but i want to i want to want to i want to want to and that being said i am going to start hosting a game night and if any of my friends try to cancel prison you guys are you easy to cancel on uh i don't think so no you you're you right you hold it against people not hold it against but i'm definitely i'm a pusher you are you're like come on i'm like i'm like come on we're young we're gonna die someday oh wow i go we only live once that's so interesting because one thing i really appreciated about you at that fundraiser is there was like oh we're all going to the bar for the after party and you came up to me and you were like we're all going to the bar are you coming to hang out and i went well i took like half a breath in and you saw my hesitation and you went hey you can go you can walk over with me right now as soon as you want to leave i'll take you home you don't have to stay that long and by the way if you don't want to go no one's going to care and you're not going to make anyone upset and i went see but to me that's pushing that to me that's to me that's being to me that's my push and you know what it fucking worked because that was the only thing you could have said to me that would have gotten me there is like you said the perfect thing and i was like oh my again that's why i walked around for the next week going do you have to do caleb heroness do you like him as as an entity i met that guy and he's just as good as you think like i was really just like so i mean you obviously have a gift for like knowing what the person in front of you needs to hear in order to get them to do what you want but thank you yeah bring it back but it's it's really impressive i mean i also want to ask you what is it like just having chemistry with every single person you meet that is not dating hard that is not the case it is the case taylor do you know what i am working on by the way speaking of me not letting people off the hook easy i am on a journey i'm on a lightheartedness journey right now oh and i am working you can ask holmes because holmes is the biggest victim of my pushing i am working on and i got i got i got positive praise from holmes recently that i am getting better about letting people do their own thing okay and holmes holmes holmes recently canceled something on me or said they couldn't do something that we you're maybe going to do and i said and where i would normally say like you evil bitch you hate me you this cannot this will not stand i'll see you in court right right instead of doing my normal thing which is half a joke and half me really wanting them to do something i said i love you have a great day i totally understand and they got scared oh well that i was sick or something and they said is something wrong with you and i said no i'm on a journey i'm a journey of self-improvement in this area and they said well i've noticed and thank you i appreciate it that's so so in case you're wondering even even guys like me evil evil guys like me can change can make change so inspiring yeah my friends and i love canceling on each other and i think it brings us closer every time someone goes hey i'm so sorry i just can't and the other person goes that's okay i barely wanted to go and we go oh my god i love you so much so i love you so much and oh we're so healthy and I love you and you're the best.
49:32Yeah. I can't do stuff like that because I have abandonment issues. So do I. Yeah. Well, doesn't that hurt you when someone cancels? You're an extrovert with abandonment issues and I'm an introvert with abandonment issues. Yeah. And if I, if I did see them, I would get closer to them and that would make it even more painful if they ever left me. So it's actually for the best that we don't get closer. You stay in tonight. Yeah. Yeah. I understand that. No, I do. I'm becoming increasingly avoidant. Are you? I think so. Yeah. why is that i don't know it just it's i have too much control over my life i think now yeah right yeah and then you're kind of like oh that sounds like an opportunity for my peace to be disturbed rather than like an opportunity for connection and fun yeah and now we're circling back to dating and why it's so hard yeah because going on dates even if they're a good date if they're not your person it's still disappointing you know even if like it was a nice time and you both had fun and maybe neither of you are feeling it romantically like that's the best a date can go other than it's my soulmate and it's still like i left for nothing yeah i got ready i didn't hang out with my friends tonight yeah i didn't relax tonight yeah i didn't do any of the things i'm supposed to be making more time for except for dating yep and it didn't go well and now i've spent the night on that that's why you have to have i think it has to have rules 45 minute first date yes afterwards coffee one drink yeah you gotta and you gotta also get comfortable being like after one drink after one like one singular drink if you're not feeling it being like hey this was so much fun it was nice to meet you where are you headed yeah i think if you know somebody a little bit yeah through mutuals or whatever else you can do more than coffee for the first date but if you are going in blind date you know setup app date whatever it's a 45 minute coffee yeah i think every dating app profile needs to have a voice note i think i need to hear your voice before i meet up with you yeah i do voice note early in the text because i've met up with people who look exactly like their photo yeah they have hidden nothing from me yeah they have accurately represented themselves yeah appearance wise and i hear their voice and i go absolutely not Yeah.
51:42Can't do it. The voice is a lot. The voice is a lot. It's how you carry yourself. It's your voice. Yeah. You got to do the voice. You got to do the voice. The voice can be a problem, right? Not for guys like me and you, though. No, voice prompt is good. Hinge, a lot of voice prompts on there. A lot of voice prompts on there. Hinge was fun. And a lot of, and by the way, a lot of the gay guys that were mask fishing, the voice prompt will bring the truth to light. Will bring the truth to light. There's a lot of backwards ball caps until that voice prompt comes around.
52:09Yeah. But it's like it's something they can't change. It's like you might not like my voice. Like, you know, if you project on, it's easy to project a bunch of stuff onto a photo of a person. Yeah. And then if you meet up with them and it doesn't fit the picture in your head of what they were going to be like, it's like, well, you know, I'd like as much information as possible. I would like to hear your voice. I would like to see your whole face and body. And I would like you to write down all of the products you use that include fragrance. Yeah. Oh, fragrance is a big one. Yeah. But you know what?
52:39here's what i'll say i don't need to see nudes before we hook up that's my that's one thing about me right and i know that might be a gay guy specific yeah i was like i i don't think i've ever guys are sending that album asap rocky that album is coming through it's like hey how's it going i'm craig album and it's like whoa and sometimes it's hot you know if you're like particularly horny you're like okay we did get to the bottom of things quickly but i would far prefer i've said this on here before boring old news but i would far prefer to um figure out about your body uh in person in real time right yeah it's cool i think it's more fun yeah it's like unwrapping a gift yeah why also i need to get to know somebody chance is not having it with me today he keeps like shaking his head and laughing at me he's not liking my energy on this episode um i that's the problem with having people that work with you that you've known for a really long time like that's why i hired my sibling because i can't get away with jack oh he won't be here for long yeah no it's good because you can't get away with anything because there's always someone there going that's the problem chances time with the company is almost up he knows too much he's into he's gonna he's gonna have break issues on a road trip me and me and the fine folks the clinton foundation are gonna find a solution to the chance question very soon well because you can't just fire him the internet will cancel you for that oh they'd be so mad if i'd be so mad because they don't know what happens behind the scenes but yeah we're gonna we're gonna find a he's gonna he's gonna take a a small plane trip that doesn't quite make it to the destination who's gonna look up all the true or false facts oh anybody a robot could do it chat gbt can you come up with a true or false segment for so true we're gonna replace chance with chat i go i go chat look this up um oh i had another question about uh okay so you don't think you have chemistry with everybody but i'm sure everybody feels like they have chemistry with you right that's sweet i hope that's true i mean do you hope that's true do i hope that everyone feels like they have chemistry with me yeah that'd be amazing really oh i hope everyone thinks i'm the oh i hope everyone thinks i'm a delight but like romantically do you find yourself going on a lot of dates where afterward they're like i had a great time and you're like i was playing racquetball with my own personality oh you weren't bringing much yeah i i there is a gap there's a gap between sometimes uh i will say a guy thinks a date went way better than it did just because I was at work.
54:57Yeah. Cause you were doing crowd work with one person. Yeah. I was, I was making shit happen. I was turning things on and off. I was, I was keeping the server engaged. I was, I paid the bill. I, I made the date a beautiful experience for them. Yeah. It's like, you know how that there's like that, that thing happening now where people are like, growing up is just realizing the magic of Christmas was all the work your mom did behind the scenes. Yeah. That's, that's me on an okay date. You know what I mean? I'm like, you thought it was magic buddy because I put the stockings up, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:26And then, yeah, they'll be like, oh, my God, I can't wait to see you again. And I'm like, really? I feel like we could go a while. Oh, no. Yeah, that's tough. That's hard. And sometimes I'm, I think I'm much better on a date when I know they're not, I'm not going to see them again because then I do just go into, like, crowd work mode where I'm just, like, interviewing them because I'm like, well, I can have an interesting conversation with anybody for three hours, you know, and certainly for 45 minutes over coffee. Yeah. So then I probably seem more interested than I am. Yeah, you're running out the clock.
55:54Oh, when I was like on dates with straight guys, I was like, oh my God, I really get into it. And then they're like, whoa, like, because they're not used to being asked like very deep questions. And so when you're like, what's the worst thing that's ever happened to you? They're like, whoa, like they're really. Oh my God, this girl's like intellectual. Yeah, exactly. They're like, well, she's really into me. And you're like, no, I just, you know, need to come away with a joke. I need to get something. I'm leaving here with something. I need to get some material out of this. Yeah. Have you seen that Denzel Washington clip?
56:21No. With Jamie Foxx? No, what is it? I think about it all the time. what is it it's Denzel and Jamie two of our greatest minds talking about is it the Oscars like an actors on actors thing something like that but of course Denzel's wearing like sweatpants and a t-shirt I love I'm obsessed with Denzel's like over it era yeah he's in interviews now just being like don't fucking ask me that next question I'm like that's Denzel and he should uh but he yeah he said he was talking about an award show where he didn't win an award and he goes I'm leaving here with something and then he talks about like stealing he took he took something He took like a meal or a coat or something.
56:55Oh, that's awesome. But it's just the way him and Jamie are, and Jamie is laughing so fucking hard. It's up there for me. That's awesome. I think about it a lot. I need to look that up. Yeah, it's great. And Jamie Foxx does a Denzel impression for Denzel that's incredible. Of course. Oh, God. I love Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx is very talented. He's one of our greatest. He is. He's one of our greatest, and I don't think it gets talked about enough. And here we are saying it. And here I am saying it. Everyone spread the word. people don't talk about how great Jamie Foxx is look he's not lauded enough for everything he does well he's genuinely funny he's a great actor he is a great singer we just don't have a lot of people doing it on that level Jamie Foxx come on the pod I don't want him to come on the pod we'd have to know each other first oh yeah you don't really have anyone on that you haven't met which is like another thing I really admire about you I just think Jamie and I we should be friends first I want to meet Jamie in the world some way in some way that isn't orchestrated you know I want to maybe maybe we bump into each other at a restaurant I said Jamie you don't know me of course but I'm a huge fan Jamie and then he says you know what let's go for a walk we go for a walk we get lunch we cut up we have some fun we chit chat we get to know each other and then after several months or years of friendship and getting to know each other hanging out checking in on birthdays i'm actually i'm really bad at birthdays so i shouldn't say i'm so bad at birthdays i nobody's birth none of my friends hear from me on their birthday yeah and i just can't i can't there's too many everyone's being born all the time i know i forget my best friend's birthday every single year we've been best friends for 22 years every year i talk to her on her birthday most years i know don't don't even doesn't occur to me and then two weeks later i'm in the middle of the country somewhere doing a show and i went oh my god and i text her and i go i'm really sorry and she's like i don't care this is why i don't get bent out of shape if people don't remember to say happy birthday to me.
58:46I'm like, totally fair game. The only person in the world whose birthday I remember is my mom's. Yeah. That's it. And that's the only one you need to remember. That's it. It's for mom. Yeah. But Jamie and I have a couple years of beautiful friendship. Wow. And then he says, oh, I got this movie coming out. And I go, well, if you want to come on the show and talk about it. And he goes, yeah, I'll be in New York. I'll pop by. And then we do a beautiful So True episode. Crazy that you think your connection with Jamie Foxx is going to be forged during an impromptu walk. Yeah. rather than some sort of project or party you go to or any sort of like, you know, his team reaches out about doing the pod.
59:21You think you're going to run into him and he's going to go, want to go for a walk? If his team reached out about doing the pod, I would say no. You would. Yes. Not really. Yes. If I ask the, ask them if I don't say no to everybody, a lot of people ask to come on the show that I say no to, we have to walk. What? Jamie and I need to go on a walk first. because I feel that we it would be reveal everything that would need everything that needs to be revealed would be revealed on the walk and then the episode is just you know then it's gravy but I mean if Jamie's team reached out to me and said Jamie wants to go on a walk well then we're talking put me on the email yeah I remember when I because I think I started seeing clips of you on TikTok and I was like who is this this is like the funniest person I've ever seen and then that's how I figured out you had a podcast and I remember I was talking to oh my social media manager at one point I was like I think Caleb Heron is like the funniest person on the internet and she goes well you should do his podcast I go I can't do his podcast I don't know him that's not how that podcast works and she goes oh my god you can get on that podcast I go no he has friends on and that's what's so great about that podcast I'm like I'm a real fan and I have respect for that project and I go the reason that podcast is so great is because he only has his friends on.
1:00:36And so they have a rapport. And he could interview a stranger and be great, but he doesn't want to. And that's what I love about Caleb Heron. This was back when I only said your whole name, full first and last name, because I didn't know you. Do you know what's interesting to me, Taylor? What? You are so good at making this interview not about you. I will say, and it's always a back and forth. We talk about each other, you know, but a lot of people try to, and I know what you're doing because this is what I do. You're doing what I do I go on other people's podcasts and I go this is my show now And you are one of the only people who has succeeded at it on So True And I'm oscillating in my head between being impressed and being so angry with you But it's genuine It's not a plan I came in with Like Caleb's not going to get anything over on me Look, you can edit this however you want You can ruin my life I'm genuinely a huge fan I had a lot I wanted to say to you I put it out on the siblings group chat because we're all big fans.
1:01:34I said, does anyone have anything they want me to ask Caleb because I'm going on the pod today? I came in with questions from other people. That's how big of fans we are over here at Camp Taylor. But even this moment. I'm sorry. It really is impressive. Well, it's hard. This is a meet and greet for me. So I can't just sit back. That is so silly. It's not silly. That is silly and ridiculous. It's not silly. We've gone on a walk. We've had our walk. And it was great. We've had our walk. Yeah, it's so interesting to me. I really am. I'm fascinated by you. Well, I find myself fascinated by you. What did you think?
1:02:05You think I was going to come in here and be like, what have you got? Ask me things. No, but I would love that. I know I'm not. I'm just interested in it. What do you want? What is the goal for you here right now? No, not here right now in life. Like, what do you what do you want out of life? What is the point of all this? Oh, man. Why are you doing all this? Oh, my God. Is this punishment for me asking you questions? Yeah, you're in trouble. Here's a hardball question. Yeah. I mean, I really do. I think for a while when I had no time for a personal life and I was working really hard, which I'm look still in that season, but we're coming out of it.
1:02:37I was like, you're fine on your own. You don't need anybody. It's all good. And it's probably better this way. And I really do, I really do want to like fall in love again. And it's been like a while now and it's been even longer since I've, I think like my last couple relationships, I was, I think making a lot of compromises where I was like, you don't need all the things you want. And it's okay if the person you're dating, you know, let's just doesn't have a job or, you know, wants to be open or is like way hotter than you, which is not something I want ever again. I do not ever want to date someone who's hotter than me again.
1:03:21I want someone who is as hot as me exactly with the same level of attractiveness. I do not want to feel uncomfortable in my own home. And I want, I don't, I want to eat as much popcorn as I want. And I don't want to be doing, I just, I want to eat normally in front of a person. I don't want to see a 12 at the breakfast table. No, I want to eat nachos the way I eat them alone in front of another person that to me is true love i don't want anyone super hot again my last two relationships they were so hot and i hated it i hated every fucking second of it yeah i'm just eating like the tiniest pieces of tofu in front of them like just chewing like a fucking american girl dolls like not even really i was so uncomfortable the whole time i hated it so i don't want that again but anyway sorry i got lost for a minute but i opposite by the way i love dating hot people.
1:04:08You do? Oh yeah. Go look at him. I don't. I don't look at him. Oh my gosh. But you can't, but you don't want it. You don't want it. Well, I want someone funny. I don't want someone crazy hot. Like they're not going to be hilarious. It's true. It's just not going to happen. It's not their fault. Uh, so we want someone equally as hot as you. Exactly. And I'm not saying I'm, I'm not saying I'm hot. I think I'm cute and I want that. That's what I want. The same, the same amount of attraction. Exactly. And I want someone who's cute in the same way I'm cute too. I want the same genre of cute. I've been on a journey with what you've been saying where at first I was like, exactly.
1:04:46You don't, I was so on your side. It's like, you don't, you don't need everything you want or you, you don't, whatever it is. It's like, you need everything you want. You deserve it. You should get everything. And then you're like, they have to be cute in the exact way I am. And I'm like, maybe the sacrificing was good. I know. Maybe actually, I only go between the two extremes where I'm like, I'll do whatever you want and that's fine and like i have very specific specifications now that i want so because you know i grew up in church and i was like make your list of all the things you want in a spouse and then god will give them to you and what they don't tell you is when you stop believing in god and you make that list that list isn't going to anyone yeah you know it doesn't get any higher than the ceiling no there's no one to deliver on that list so it really is just you writing things down that you want and then every day you look at that list and go wow doesn't hasn't happened yet and then you go maybe I'm not good enough for that Kelsey told me to again my friend Kelsey Cook she told me she goes you need to make a list of all the things that you bring to the table as a partner she goes because you need confidence when you're dating so she goes make a list of all the things you bring to the table and I think it'll make you feel better she goes that's what I did when I was single it really helped and I said okay and she goes I'm gonna call you tomorrow and you better have done it and so the next day she calls me she goes did you make your list and I said yes she goes how'd it go I said I didn't get very far and she said what did you write and I said I wrote funny fast reader and that's it that's as far as I got funny and fast reader because you don't want to write down like cute enough and that's what I felt like and then I was like I think that's as far as I got with it and she goes that's the saddest thing I've ever heard I'm going to break down these walls of yours we're going to get through there but then sometimes I'm like I'm great I think I'm a catch and I also think if you're not into it I fully get that I get that completely yeah so I'm look I'm I'm very easy to reject cancel on anything and I'm like I understand that but also there's people that I'm like you should be in love with me probably there we go yeah that I like to hear now that I like to hear yeah but then there's other people where I'm like of course and you should and you have lots of options and you should go explore that part I don't like to hear yeah yeah so Taylor what is so true to you what's so true to me yeah every hotel room needs to have a plunger in the bathroom yes by default i've been on the road a long time they never have a plunger in the bathroom yes you always have to ask for one i have actually gone out and purchased one when i was in a hotel room for the weekend what are you doing in there well you're like you have no you have no idea how many times i've had to ask well here's what happened because i was in new york for 10 days and on night two i plugged i clogged the toilet Okay, whatever.
1:07:22It's okay. It's fine. And I call down to the front desk and I say, Hey, I'm really sorry. I know it's midnight. Can you just bring up a plunger and leave it outside the door? And I'm going to take care of what's going on in here. We understand each other. And she goes, totally, we can do that. They call back two minutes later and they go, Hey, so we actually need to send somebody up to do it. And I said, that's not necessary. I can handle it. I'm 32. I've done this. I've been on this planet a long time. Yeah. I can plunge a toilet. And she goes, all right. Then they call back again, different guy.
1:07:49and he goes hey so we don't have any plungers here i go in the building what because we don't have any plungers here we only have a snake so we have to send somebody up with the snake to unclog the toilet and i'm like okay and they're like we're really sorry and i go i'm really sorry and so they send a guy up at midnight brand my sibling and i opens opens the door and this guy it comes and he goes first thing he says before we even say hello he goes hey it happens everybody it's okay he goes i do this every night i do this every night he goes look at this he pulls the snake into the doorframe so we can see it he goes look at this he's a tall guy it's taller than him he goes look at this let me do my job i do this every day don't worry about it this is so sweet it was amazing he comes in he does the thing it sounds horrible it's the noise is coming from the bathroom oh my god it sounded like someone being strangled with a shower curtain it was horrible he comes out and he goes he goes it's done see it's easy he goes and he goes and by the way i didn't see anything i go well that's not true but he goes it's fine he goes i didn't see anything he goes and i'm so glad i saw you guys all right this was fine and he goes and i love you guys he goes and i love you guys and we're like thank you so much that was really nice he goes yeah Don't worry about it.
1:09:08He goes, how long are you staying? I go, like another week. And he goes, well, if I see you again, I'll come do it again. It's fine. It was the nicest thing. We were like, he left. We were like. I'm crying. I know. We were like, we didn't learn his name. Like we were. He's so sweet. He's amazing. He's like, he's going to. He's like, hey, that nasty shit you did in there. Don't worry about the nasty shit you did. I'll come back. I hope you do it again. And I love you guys. I love you guys. I love you guys. I know. Isn't that nice? I know and I wouldn't have had that experience if they put a plunger in the bathroom but they need to do that especially in New York okay you got the plumbing here is not great all right California could have handled what I did in there yeah yeah yeah we need to be in a newer state yeah for the shit I'm doing needs to happen in a newer state yeah these old states can't handle what I'm putting down that is so funny dude wow what a beautiful experience yeah that by the way is the whole reason to be alive yeah interactions like that are the whole reason to be alive that's So true.
1:10:06Talking to that guy is the reason to be alive. Yeah. There's no other point. There's no purpose of being alive if you're not talking to that guy. Yeah. I love him. You want to play a game? Yeah. How do you think you're going to do? I think I'm going to do bad, but I'm excited. Okay. That's beautiful. And I'm going to go fast because I know you hate it when people go slow.
1:10:25But I'm so nervous. Okay. Don't be nervous. I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. If you get 10 or more correct, I think you know. Yeah. We're going to give you 50 US dollars. Are you ready? Yes. All right. Elijah Wood was born in Toronto. False. False. Cedar Rapids, Iowa. The letter Q does not appear in any U.S. state name. False. True. What? Oh, fuck. Sorry. I went Albuquerque. That's a city. A group of lemurs is called a conspiracy. Oh, I hope that's true. True. True. The tallest person ever recorded was 8 foot 11 inches.
1:10:59False. True. Temecula Valley High School opened in 1963. 63. I know I went there, but I don't care. I do not claim to macula true false. 1985. Yeah. Platypuses don't have stomachs. True. True. And is it platypuses or platypi? Platypi. Nice. It is true. Friday Night Lights. The series ran for 10 seasons. False. False. Five. Hinge was released in 2013. False. True. Fuck. Singing in the Rain won the best the Oscar for best adapted screenplay oh I should know that that's my favorite movie false don't look at me like it is false okay I thought so uh caramel never caramel never spoils caramel caramel however you say it no I wasn't that's not however you say it that's not what I meant never spoils uh true uh that is false the houston texans are the third oldest nfl franchise
1:12:01false false they're the newest okay palomar college's mascot is the asteroids yeah that's true false it's the comments what oh fuck you asteroid and comet fuck you fuck this show that i should have that's the same what's the difference between an asteroid and a comet do you know an ai chat bot could never do that what do you know what's the difference between an asteroid and a comet do you know um oh let me guess one doesn't have a tail well is that it well i bet i bet they look different god johnny apple seed was a real person true true there are no walmarts in alaska true false york peppermint patties are older than joe biden true it is true how'd she do eight oh you know what i deserve that asteroid one that was crazy it's the mascot of a place didn't you go there i did go there for a year and a half and that's why i was like i know this but asteroid and comet that's like if you were trying to think of the word for comet i know and you said asteroid everyone would know what you were talking about it's a sick fuck oh my god bad guy i really don't i enjoy this segment when i'm listening but not when i'm here participating it's not fun that we do it to people we should stop that sucks the fans would riot they love that segment um taylor i really i think the world of you i think you're so great i mean i'm obsessed with you tell us tell people where they can find you and where they can watch your special you can watch all my specials on netflix the new one's prodigal daughter but watch whatever you want uh and yeah that's that's it mostly nice thanks for coming on dude thanks for having me
From the publisher
Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Taylor Tomlinson! Taylor and Caleb talk self worth, hot people, navigating dating apps, comets, and much more! Watch Taylor’s special Prodigal Daughter now streaming on Netflix!
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