SED News: NVIDIA Bets on Intel, Meta’s Demo Crash, and Anthropic’s Explosive Growth

0:11Hello and welcome to SED News. This is a different format of Software Engineering Daily, which we do monthly, where we take a spin through the latest news, and the latest news. news. We then dive into a deeper topic during the middle and then we take a look at some hacker news highlights towards the end. So as usual, we just like to kind of have a catch up on what's been going on on our site. So I'm Gregor Vand and with me is Sean Falconer. Say hey, Sean. Hey there. Good to be back. How you doing, Gregor? Yeah. Yeah, good. Good. So what's been going on over, I guess, I always lose track of months these days.

0:49So your September, Sean, how was your September? I was on the road a bunch. So I was gone to Europe for 10 days. I did five cities in Europe for work. A lot of speaking, customer engagement was fun, but it was very, very exhausting. So I'm glad to be back in the US for a little bit, but I do leave again for Europe next weekend. So I'm in like kind of my heavy travel schedule for the year. So I'm just trying to survive at the moment. Yeah. Well, we managed to catch you flying in for this episode. So that's much appreciated. Yeah. On my side, yeah, it's just been, I guess, sort of ramping back up month and obviously conferences etc starting to tick back in i mean this week in in singapore is what's called token week i have nothing to do with crypto or tokens so it's a bit of a strange week when a bunch of people that look different shall we say to the usual singapore population descend on the city but i went to a sort of enterprise i wouldn't say the company but i went to sort of like an enterprise ai conference and certainly i think reception was quite muted i would say They were really pushing their agents.

1:52They have a special name for those agents, but if I say the name, then you'll know the company. So they were pushing their agents and really trying to sort of bring up their customers on stage to talk about what they've been doing with them. It just wasn't a great reception. We're talking sort of some quite basic RPA type things. So it was certainly interesting. And I do think that's maybe just over this side of the world. We're not quite pushing out the... That said, it's an American company. Again, I won't say which one, but it was an American company. I'm just not sure if that's sort of the level we can be expecting of agentic conferences right now.

2:23Yeah. Do you think based on your experience that at least the part of Asia that you live in is maybe a little bit behind the United States or other parts of the world when it comes to AI adoption? I certainly noticed that at least in parts of Europe that I was in, you know, I ran kind of a luncheon there for executives. And I started by asking everybody in the room which companies were actively building something in AI right now, even if just POCs and demos. not a single person raised a hand, which is quite a contrast from my experiences in the US. They're all very interested in this topic, but it felt like they were a little bit slower in the adoption curve.

2:57Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's probably a fair assessment. I mean, obviously, yeah, where you're based, San Francisco, in the Valley, for sure, that has to be pretty much the place that's getting adopted first, certainly for where I look and sit. Over here, yeah, I think it's just, there's still inertia. And I think people are still sort of in the businesses that are like if i think of the customers that came on stage at that conference let's just say like big shipping companies or something to that effect i think there's still just a bit of inertia around well why should we change our ways of doing things just so that the cio can say that they've cut costs and i think that was the big theme of that conference was cios saying that they could cut costs here there and everywhere using ai so i feel that was an interesting theme and we're talking like agents to help you reduce your sas spend and like having employees be able to talk to a chatbot and say how can i reduce my spend on this platform which is quite on the nose but given that this was obviously a sas platform in itself so it's i don't know it was kind of interesting nice yeah okay so moving on to the main headlines these are things that pop up in the main news outlets the more niche stuff comes a bit later from the Hacker News.

4:10So the big one that we're looking at to begin with is NVIDIA investing in Intel. So we did look at this last month in terms of what we looked at Intel last month. They had an investment from the US government to the tune of sort of 10 % of the company. That was on the basis of we called it too big to fail. It's sort of almost like too important to not do well. They weren't exactly failing, but they were certainly starting to lag. So that was an interesting play. But what's interesting here, so this is a 5 billion investment by NVIDIA. And this has been partly in talks, though, for over a year.

4:48And so the timing of all of this is what's more into question rather than sort of how much and so on and so forth, because the US government sort of popped up two weeks before this was inked, saying they'll take that 10%, whereas the talks with nvidia had been going on a long time so nvidia have made another investment as well which we'll get on to but i mean what is your take on this one sean it's interesting i think it kind of goes back to what we talked about last time where at least from the government side like the semiconductor industry is this critical infrastructure like energy or defense now and there's a lot of concerns over this like single point of failure in terms of the our dependence on the Taiwan chip manufacturers there?

5:31What's this mean if anything ever happened? So I think US wants to shore up their bets. But I think it's a strange day in tech when it seems like the government has moved faster than the world of technology in terms of their investment. I don't know if that was a catalyst for NVIDIA to move forward with this or what, like why it took so long. But in all of this between NVIDIA, Intel, like any idea what's going on with AMD? Like where do they stand with all this? That's a great question. We just don't seem to, I mean, I guess just maybe in the slightly more US leaning press, but we don't seem to hear a lot really about AMD, sort of exactly where are they?

6:07So I think that's maybe something we can look ahead maybe next month even, we can try and maybe dig in a bit and see where they are on this one. I mean, NVIDIA have also made this investment 100 million into OpenAI. So it's kind of going both forks of the road here, 5 billion into Intel, who are what's called a fab. They can literally make chips. There's only very few companies that can do that. I believe it's them. It's TSMC, the Taiwanese behemoth. Samsung can do it. There's probably some pokey, in this relative terms, pokey Chinese outfits that can do it, but I don't think anyone's from outside of China are using them.

6:44So yeah, I feel that's probably where the NVIDIA, so that they're hedging their bets a little bit on who might end up making some of their chips. But yeah, the$100 million into OpenAI, what does that kind of mean, do you think? In a lot of ways, I'm sure OpenAI is a huge customer of NVIDIA and their GPUs. So I saw a meme about it where essentially NVIDIA is handing over money to OpenAI and OpenAI is giving the money back for the relationship that they have. I mean, I don't really have a sense for what I guess NVIDIA is probably, it's in their best interest essentially for these model companies to do well.

7:22It's kind of like you look back at Google in the early days of the internet. Google did a lot of stuff where they probably lost money to just get more people online. Because ultimately, it's better for Google the more people who are online. Because that means more people searching, more ad revenue, and so forth. So they'll make it up eventually. And I think maybe from a strategy standpoint, NVIDIA is probably thinking similarly. It's like, okay, well, the better these model companies do, the bigger they become. And essentially that is good for our business because they're so dependent on us today.

7:52Yeah. There might also be still problems with Microsoft and OpenAI, sort of how they're going about their relationship. And this could be a sort of technology geopolitical, if you want to call it that, move where OpenAI are saying or showing that they've got kind of the heavies in their corner from a hardware perspective as well. So there's probably a whole bunch of things at play here. So very interesting. We'll obviously see how this develops. And yeah, we'll maybe follow up on AMD, try and bring them back into the foreground perhaps next month and see what we uncover there. So moving on, this could have been a hacker news thing, but it did hit the main headlines, which was Meta's classes intro, demo, failure.

8:37So this is their AR classes offering. They kind of, at least from the shiny videos that they were showing it was red bull people on skateboards going down hills and i was expecting them to like i don't know head up display the speed or something but instead of which the guy was asking what's the speed limit on the road which all seemed a bit of a like damp reception i would say it was one of the most death defy skateboard things and he's asking what the speed limit is i know they have to do that for probably many legal reasons but it just didn't make a great video in my opinion anyway they went on to a demo and this was with a chef and the chef said like so help me put this recipe together which is funny that a professional chef needs that to happen but let's roll with it but then the response from the glasses was well you've already done blah blah blah so now do this and of course he hadn't even started yet and he tried again he said no no i haven't started yet what do i do first and it responded again well you've already combined the ingredients So he just said, right, back to you, Mark.

9:41And of course, the explanation given was Wi-Fi, which I don't think anyone's buying. Yeah. I mean, we've seen sort of AI demos fail before, but this seems like spectacularly bad. Yeah, I mean, there's some great spectacular failures of demos. You know, the big one from Microsoft years ago where they had the blue screen of death during the demo of one of their flagship operating systems and so forth. in some ways i have empathy for them having given a lot of live demos like anything can happen but i'm not surprised that this makes headlines besides the fact that like it's meta zuckerberg and everyone loves a train wreck people love to see the failures but i have a hard time and maybe i'm just not the target demographic for this but we keep trying to make these like ai powered eyeglasses work google they had their attempts there's been other attempts who's this for does anyone actually want this yeah i yeah maybe maybe i'm just let me know if i'm out on an island you want this but it's like jobs gave this internet in a pocket zuckerberg's trying to give this internet our faces i'm just why why do we need this yeah i mean we're actually going to get into this in a bit more detail kind of in the main topic when we look at sort of where the device is effectively devices hardware from the big players i'm actually going to highlight snap there as well because they've kind of already had a bit of a i would say it looks very clunky i don't know from the actual experience with it it looks of a very clunky ar experience but it's that's been aimed i believe more the younger demographic which is sort of snap's user base so as you call out like this is i think being aimed at certainly adults and which adults like actually want to have something on their face that's and i mean i think the only version of this i can think of that would get me interested as an adult, at least for now, is I'm a cyclist.

11:32And if I had my, you know, I've got quite big frame Oakley sunglasses, and if they could project, say the speed or some stats, because sometimes I am like looking dead down at the road, which is where my computer is. And like, that could literally cause me to crash if I look at it too long. So it'd be quite nice to kind of look ahead and be able to see a bunch of stats that I would quite like to still be monitoring. That's it though. Like I don't want to walk down the street and have kind of minority report. That's John Smith over there or like, I don't know, but I think maybe something. You don't want to be at like a dinner party and it feeds you nuggets to help you with networking so you remember people's names and little tidbits about them, like a politician of some sort and you have somebody in your ear, except you have Jeeves feeding you this information.

12:16Yeah, so this is also really interesting because again, we're going to get onto this, I think in the main topic around like the modality of the device with the AI, if you want to call it that. but just a sort of yeah a little anecdote is like i have seen a quite high powered exec on i know on linkedin and he said if you could give me something where i can walk into a room and it can tell me who all the people are then like i will buy that tomorrow but i mean again i think that's quite a specific i'm not wandering into like gala dinners every evening needing to like remember so and so's other half and so on so forth so i don't know this seems quite a niche still quite niche I also wonder, that's a great thing to be able to do if you can do it naturally or you have some other way of doing it.

13:03If you're the only person in the room that has the capability, but if everybody's the same and everybody has these glasses on, does it kind of devalue the experience that, oh, I know your name, but clearly I got it from this device that fed it into me. And you also know my name because you're also wearing the exact same hardware on your face. yeah so again i think that's what feels strange about this like walking into like a networking event with a pair of glasses on that everyone knows is that pair of glasses i mean way back you just touched on it there but yeah google glass i mean i lived in new york when google glass was released i remember getting into a lift an elevator with someone going to a networking event and he was wearing google glass and i said oh is that google glass and he just went yeah and then i think some people might remember that people wearing these glasses got the slightly unaffectionate term of glass holes.

13:52And unfortunately, I experienced at least one version of that, which is just sort of, well, if you're going to wear this thing on your face with a camera and so on, then at least be prepared to talk about it. And this person wasn't. So yeah, we'll see. I mean, I think the big thing people have been trying to make virtual reality, augmented reality work for a long time. And I think the most compelling example and widespread use of augmented reality might've been Pokemon Go from like eight years ago or whatever it was. when that blew up. And then I haven't seen a really compelling example of virtual reality as well.

14:26Going back to like the virtual boy Nintendo failure from like 1990. Like when I was at Google, I saw some updated stuff that took like an hour to set up with all these cameras and things. And then I was like, this is only marginally better than what I saw in 1990. Yeah. Well, as they say, we're going to touch on quite a lot of hardware stuff shortly. So let's just go back to the headlines briefly. The next one is actually in the gaming space and Software Engineering Daily does cover quite a bit of gaming these days. Yeah, this is quite a big one, Electronic Arts. So, you know, they're known for the Battlefield franchise, which is obviously direct competition.

15:06Well, some people argue not, but I think it's sort of direct competition to Call of Duty, but obviously very different approaches to the same idea. And, you know, they have a bunch of sports franchises as well. But anyway, they're being acquired for its 50 to 55 billion from a private equity, which also includes, I believe, the Saudi Arabian fund. So I guess what we're seeing here is this is actually coming before Battlefield 6. And there has been a lot of talk about Battlefield 6 because the last two installments of Battlefield were not well received by the core players. so whilst EA's stock price has been going up and that would indicate maybe a good time to like sell it there also there's commentary here around like but why would you sell it before this big release and of course it just maybe looks a bit like execs just sort of saying like we're not prepared to take the hit if it goes wrong here so we need an out so it does look good in the sense for gaming that these big private equity are like looking at this as real investments these days but But at the same time, the timing does seem a bit strange in relation to these big blockbuster game franchises.

16:19Any thoughts, Sean? Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I saw, actually, if you look at EA's stock price from January to now, it went from$116 a share to$202, probably since the analysis. So it's really blowing up. And over the last few years, it's kind of been relatively the same kind of bumping up and down. And then it has a big spike. But if you sort of project it over time, it's been steadily growing. It's not like it's a completely zombie stock or anything like that. But I'm curious with, there's been a lot of stuff in the industry with companies kind of either staying private forever or even going from public to private.

16:56And I wonder if there's any of that thinking involved on the EIA side is, hey, let's go back to being private, run this without sort of the pressure of being a public company and all the things that come along with that. Yeah, it seems to just be a cycle on both sides. I mean, we saw, I mean, the strangest case of this was Dell, where Dell was private, went public, went back to private, and I think is back to public again. So it's done it, yo-yoed around. In this case, yeah, I think this has to be just down to the top leadership of EA. I think it's both, there's obviously a lot of expectations with reporting, et cetera, when you're a public company, as well as this release.

17:32If this goes wrong, I'm sure there's a lot of stock options that are going to go wrong with it so I kind of just see this as I mean they've obviously done whatever they've done to kind of structure this or make the private equity buyers feel comfortable but this release is going to go well I mean I've seen quite a few sort of videos online where they've produced these huge events where they've brought all the press down I say press but you know we're talking like very influential gaming youtubers to come and play the game and one guy that i follow he does a lot of like gaming history he was actually involved with the making of the game they got him in on various sessions he wasn't really allowed to talk about what input he was giving but the fact that they've actually got real gamers in to come and help develop this game so i think there's sort of just a lot there's a lot riding on it but there's probably a lot more i don't play these games if anyone listening you're probably wondering why i'm talking about that anything to do with the game itself i don't play them but i just find it interesting the business behind them so yeah talking of staying private the next sort of headline was anthropic series f that was just to check the numbers on that one 13 billion investment 183 billion post money i mean these numbers all just sound a bit kind of airy fairy at this point i think the headline here though just had their huge round i think their valuation was 100 billion i mean it's like 100 billion is the new billion it seems like yeah Yeah.

18:56It's crazy. Yeah. But again, here we are, no IPO. Why do you think that is, Sean? I would think it seems like they're following a lot of the same strategy that Databricks and some of these companies have followed. If you can continue to operate privately, and as long as you can figure out a way... Now, Anthropik's a much younger company than Databricks, but with Databricks, they figured out a way that they can allow their employees to liquidate some of their assets so that their options actually have value. There's a lot of advantages to continuing to stay private. The challenge when you're public is every quarter, your report card is available for the world to see.

19:34And there's a lot of things that you have to do as a company to address your board of directors, address your public shareholders. There's a lot of scrutiny with that. And if you want to be able to move fast and kind of independently, you have a lot more freedom to do that when you stay private. I think the stuff with Anthropic is insane, their revenue growth. They reported$1 billion in revenue at the beginning of the year in 2025. Now they're$5 billion. We're like nine months in. So they had like a 5x revenue run rate jump since the start of the year. That's insane when you're talking about like billions of dollars.

20:09They have a$500 million run rate in three months with quad code. That's really, really impressive. of like it's just numbers i've never seen before in my 20 years of working in the industry yeah i think that's a good call out yeah cloud code has clearly contributed quite significantly to just that growth and obviously we're seeing companies like cursor that back in august they introduced cursor cli sort of at least in beta but at least very much ga now um so yet again we're seeing the sort of foundation model producers being able to like capture so much of the market when it comes to the use cases.

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21:33And here is Anthropik coming along to saying, yep, we can actually do that too. And I think arguably to many developers better. And they've angled in on like financial reporting, specialty products, which again, there are other companies, other completely separate companies trying to achieve that. And you just think, well, you're going to have to add something really special to then beat out the company that's developing the models themselves. So yeah, as you say, Sean, these numbers are like insane. Anthropic's done a really good job of positioning themselves as like the enterprise ready AI native company, whereas OpenAI had a tremendous amount of success with a consumer phasing product of ChatGPT.

22:13And I think now they're trying to build that muscle within the company, but they're certainly playing catch up to where Anthropix started. Yeah, for sure. Just to round out, as you say, at the end of the day, if they can raise the money and they don't need to go public, then that's a great place to be. Stripe has very much adopted that model for its entirety and doesn't look like, at least from what I understand, that's changing anytime soon. So I think it's really just when are we going to see some IPOs that make sense? I mean, the only one we've seen that's been a kind of success story recently was Figma.

22:46They were about to be bought. Adobe tried to buy them and that was shot down by antitrust. And instead, Figma went public and that's been held a success overall. I mean, I'm sure there was the usual like pop at the beginning and it's gone down a bit. But overall, Figma is a very profitable business, at least from the numbers they put out before the IPO. So that's a great win for the average investor. Because again, the argument here is that the average investor is simply losing out year on year because there are no companies that they're allowed to participate in. And just to sort of sidebar that, I mean, I was just listening to the acquired, the ACQ2, which is when they interview someone.

23:26And it was Toby Lutke from Shopify. I'm a big fan of his. and they reminded the listeners that shopify went public at 1.25 billion and it just seems insane because i mean it's now about 200 billion but if you think about the fact that an average investor like you or i could have got in at the ipo and 200 x star money and that's just not possible where we're sitting right now we're watching just series e series f at these valuations like where's the growth for the average person going to come from yeah i don't know yeah you got to go work for one of these companies i guess correct yeah yeah very interesting so a final just a very final we're gonna hit on time for our headlines here but just a final one was interesting that sort of hitting the main news now is sort of more i wouldn't say niche ai but going beyond just oh here's the next model and wall street journal touched on google's genie 3 which is like a world model i.e sort of where the training can be done say on videos but then the actual model itself is where you can if you imagine almost like a video game that then looks like video they show an example say of driving a boat around venice but it really does look like i mean it's very photorealistic so yeah kind of interesting how these in the background really advancing if you look at what genie 2 looked like versus genie 3 it's like playstation 2 versus playstation 3 and for like that kind of leap in those kind of advancements yeah have you got any sort of touch points with these i think it makes sense like you got to get some especially for certain types of use cases or environments there's got to be some step function jump beyond what you can do with purely large language models and transformer model today where lms are really good at patterns and language but how do they understand the world around them how do you teach them certain rules or physics, you have to use simulation as a training ground.

25:24It's a little bit like using flight simulators to train pilots. It's kind of very similar to like how humans might learn certain skills is can you put these models in certain environments where they have to learn in a sort of simulated environment where you can create what the consequences of doing the wrong things are so they actually are able to determine sort of the patterns of these new types of environments, these sort of world models as they call them. Okay, so that was kind of the main headlines we're going to move on to our main topic which is just looking at where devices and hardware have netted out at the moment so we're going to be looking at the big companies i mean this is kind of slightly anchored by apple and sort of the announcements of iphone air that just sets the tone for like but where are we going with hardware and devices and obviously as software developers we're trying to think about like what are we actually developing for into the future you know which because i think a lot of people are saying well are we really all going to be walking around with smartphones like into the future because we're kind of all getting a bit fed up of them you know there's some really nice i don't even want to call them dumb phones they're like way paired back devices like the minimalist phone it kind of looks a bit like a kindle mixed with a blackberry which can run like any android app you want but just in a very like paired down monochrome kind of environment which i think speaks to the times of yeah we're getting fed up with smartphones, but yet we're still seeing a lot of developments of hardware.

26:51I realized we didn't really talk about our predictions from last month, but the one that I made does feed into this, which kind of also helps set the tone a bit, which is I predicted that based on a bunch of hardware bricking incidents from software updates, that there would be one of those. And there wasn't, I just said PS4 just as a joke, but what did transpire was that Nest thermostats, which is owned by Google have decided to completely discontinue their support for their Gen 1 and 2 devices. Now that's pretty insane because these are thermostats wired into houses and they're basically saying, you know that functionality as to why you bought it with Wi-Fi and you can control it from wherever.

27:31Oh yeah, well we're going to completely discontinue support for that and you just need to use it like a normal thermostat on the side of your house or the side of your wall. So there are big consequences here. Which devices and hardware are we adopting? which modalities etc so we're going to look at apple we're going to look at meta again we have obviously talked quite a bit about them in the headlines we're going to look at google we're going to look at snap and just kind of like look at what's going on here so the first company as as sort of talked about is apple i think just let's just sort of hit the high notes here which is iphone air has been released people are a bit underwhelmed by it if we then look at like where are they trying to go with hardware and devices that again developers thought okay should i be developing for this well the vision pro you know that was a sort of three and a half grand failure it didn't really get great adoption it was a very clunky device i saw someone wearing it in a bar in new york and it just looked ridiculous i mean i think they were obviously just wearing it to show their friends and the friends were using it in a bar but you would not take this thing to a bar normally it's a pretty strange and you know they kind of canned the vision pro ultimately and then And if we actually look at where they're quite strong right now, it's actually the MacBook Pro, which is with their Apple Silicon, or I mean the MacBook Air as well.

28:44Apple Silicon, basically, where they've moved away and they decided to double down on their own chips, which I mean, I think it's been a huge advantage for software developers as much as especially running models locally as much as, you know, video editors, etc. And we also probably will touch on AirPods, which is sort of their secret breakaway success products, which they, you know, they obviously, I say secret, just I think people realize just how much money they probably make from AirPods and AirPods Pros. Yeah. So I'm going to set the scene there with Apple. What do you think on where is Apple right now, Sean?

29:18It seems like on the laptop front, they're making the right kind of moves where they're investing in making their laptops, like be able to run AI models and AI workloads more efficiently locally, which I think makes a ton of sense. Like if that's the way the world is going and you can, you want to be able to do that from a development standpoint, or even certain applications will have certain models probably running within them at some point, then you want to have the hardware to be able to support that. But I think where Apple, as well as a ton of these companies that are focused on sort of next generation hardware is they're all kind of trying to figure out what is that next, you know, iPhone type breakthrough of hardware.

30:03And we haven't really had that. Like people have tried different things. We already talked about all the like glassware for failures. Is that the next thing? I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong. there's a humane that tried the ai pin where i actually kind of liked some of the thesis behind their idea but the hardware ended up being kind of clunky and it was a little slow what was that what was the ai pin oh yeah so it was this little pin that you could wear and it had no screen but you could talk to it so voice it was voice activated and then if you needed a screen it could kind of like you could use your hand and it would draw with like a sort of laser pointer on your hand to show you some representation, but it also had cameras in it.

30:42So you could just point at it. And the whole idea was to create some sort of passive piece of hardware that wasn't as intrusive as getting your phone out to do something when you wanted to like snap a picture or you wanted to capture a moment at like a concert or something. You're not just like, you know, looking at all those things through a phone and not experiencing themselves was kind of the idea behind it. And I liked that, but they weren't able to deliver on it at least yet in terms of beyond the creative experiences. So a lot of these companies, I think, are struggling to try to figure out what that is.

31:11And I wish I knew, I don't know. But I think you raised an interesting point about the AirPods. I think with the AirPods, like you see them everywhere. And I think as somebody who maybe you don't know anything about, you know, headphones and especially like headphones that don't have something to like really keep them in your ear, how hard that is to like really nail with people where you have to be able to fit this to all kinds of different people's like ear sizes and have something that kind of just like universally works and stays in and connects to any device very quickly. That's a really, really hard thing to pull off.

31:47And I think, you know, Apple did it. So they did it spectacularly. And I think that's part of the reason why AirPods have been so successful. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I own a pair of the last gen AirPod Pros. They have done pretty well. I mean, the case on them is always been the issue. they've got these little connectors for the charging and in this climate which is very humid these connectors um basically corrode very fast so i've had gone through like two cases just on that basis even trying to like clean the little connectors with alcohol and all that kind of stuff um and then to your point you know yeah i've tried my wife has a pair of from another manufacturer and they kind of basically broke after like a year i've tried the bows they're kind of quiet comfort but earphones as opposed to headphones i'm wearing a pair of the headphones right now but these are the earphones that we're talking about and to your point they're actually quite difficult to get in your ear and like that puts me off thinking that it could be a daily modality for anything you know beyond like yeah so it's a tricky device to get right apple seemed to have got it pretty right and then you know they added in the the health aspect of basically the latest gen can function as a hearing aid which is pretty spectacular so i think looking ahead it's like but what could we do more than that like i mean the one that comes to mind to me is like translation like could you walk around japan and someone's like talking to you and it's just being filtered through and being translated real time like you know you're sitting in the un or something like yeah they have their earpieces with yeah i mean the universal translator to some extent like that's what google when they first launched their like pixel pod or i forget exactly what they were called, but I had a pair.