Lee Petty on Keeper — The Weird, the Whys, the Wow

0:01Spawn on me is the premiered podcast spotlighting people of color every week we talk new what we've been playing and tell you who's invited to the cookout our show is all about talking about gaming through a prism of blackness because we are the culture welcome to brokago y 'all

0:23what's good everybody in brokago this is khalif here i am so excited because i get the chance to talk to somebody who i've been dying to chat with for a long time a person who's made some of my favorite games on the planet. Please welcome to the show Lee Petty, creative director on Keeper from Double Fine. Lee, so excited to finally get a chance to meet and say what's up. How are you doing today? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. It's great to chat with you. I'm glad you're a fan of the games. I thought, you know, could go either way with this. I mean, look, I've had Schaefer hold a knife to my throat and be like, hey, you better like our games.

1:01If not, I'm coming for you uh i mean it's reasonable i understand how it works now now now i know uh so so now we get a chance to be able to talk about it but i'm really excited for keeper um i've been playing through it uh for review we'll be talking about review stuff later in the show so you'll know when that stuff will go live but you know i have been a big fan of games you've made a bit a huge fan of Double Fine's games for a long period of time. How are you doing? How is everything going? Because you are in a very busy moment within the studio. How are you holding up? Good, thank you. Yeah, the team, we've been working on the game for a little while, and the team's really excited to get it out there.

1:45And, you know, it's a weird game. And so we're like more, maybe more so than some of our other games, we're really looking forward to watching people play and just see the reaction to some of our moments in the game. So it's, yeah, it's an exciting time. Yeah, I think what I love about what Double Fine has continued to do is not only kind of grow, you know, with various IPs that you've built and also kind of continue with the lineage of games like a Psychonauts and Psychonauts 2, and then having a game like Keeper in the portfolio too feels not only different in terms of the way that Double Fine continues to kind of think about their own work, but also the way you think about the space and what you're looking to create in the video game space itself.

2:29Talk to me a little bit about what it's been like to kind of have this version of creative freedom moving forward with, you know, the games that you've already made and now having multiple games. And then this one being the most recent that's going to be coming out. What's it been like to kind of be able to have that creative freedom? I mean, it's I feel lucky every day, honestly, both working at Double Fine and still being able to lead unusual games. Every time we start a game, we kind of always want to do something a little different, but we're not just doing it to be different per se. We just have a lot of interest.

3:06And I think we're just naturally, as a company, attracted to doing something we haven't done before or trying to bring a slightly different take on something that we maybe like, but we haven't made ourselves. And Keeper kind of continues that tradition. And I think for me, it was a little bit honestly a little bit of test of you know microsoft and xbox being a part of the xbox family a while ago and this has been my first uh game i've led since then so it was a little bit of a initially i was like i wonder if they're gonna let me do something like this and it was they've been super supportive the whole time uh like very honestly like so i uh i feel really good about that partnership you know but uh you're never sure when you start working with new folks like how it's going to be but it's been great yeah a thousand percent i mean i think one of the things that really got me excited was seeing that you all were doing something like this now having been acquired and been in there in the space for a minute now with with that with that collaboration and seeing that there was a space to be able to make something like this i think a lot of times now we see studios get a little bit gun shy and they get a little bit you know kind of truncated in their beliefs and how they kind of move forward with big ideas and projects but it feels like you know from a studio that started with the amnesia fortnite project and then kind of building things out of what that was to now continuing to have these new experiences like this it feels like you are getting some some carte blanche to be able to to do things like this and kind of in a space where folks are doing a lot of games kind of by numbers and based on based on sales and based on the kind of vibe of the industry this feels very different in the way you're bringing this to table not only from a visual perspective but from a gameplay perspective talk to me a little bit about what was the impetus for keeper what was the the moment where you all were in a room and you were like we have multiple things that we're going to do here's the thing that we want to move forward with yeah yeah uh well and you know i think uh it's funny because i always say like it's really little hard to track down like the exact moment when an idea hits you but i do actually have kind of a moment for this game which was you know in the in the pandemic years um we were all quarantined and one of the few things we could still do was we're kind of go outside and hiking and stuff and i uh i live not too far away from some old mercury mines which sounds charming um that are now like uh hiking trails and i really like being outside um hiking and backpacking out in nature and And so it became really important for me during the lockdown to just, and I spent a lot of time out there thinking.

5:44And, you know, you start just having these sort of random thoughts when you're out hiking sometimes, these sort of meditative thoughts. And I was like, what if humans are kind of done, you know? Like, what if we're just like on our way out and, you know, but not in a post-apocalyptic, like not in a we're going to don leather armor and go after gasoline. It was more like what sort of life would continue to evolve, you know? like like is it just all this these flowers and plants these birds around me and and if so like like what weird ways what unexpected ways because humans are really bad at predicting the future is what i think right so i'm like what would it actually do and and um and it just kind of led me to imagining this sort of almost like the galapagos island like somehow this island you know that was like its own ecosystem separate from the rest of you know long after humanity is gone it's not even really important, you know, and, you know, with that life, really be still possessed with the need to find meaning in its existence to connect with other things.

6:43And of course, that somehow led right to walking Lighthouse. But it did in a weird way because I started thinking about like leftover bits of humanity that might still be around and how they might be seen. And then I thought, again, this idea of searching for meaning in your own life. And, well, if you're – the reason why you're around has changed or has gone, what do you do? So the lighthouse, there's no humans left. There's no ships coming. So I thought it would be an interesting tale for this lighthouse to find meaning on its journey and to do so with a friend. And so that's when we started thinking about introducing a companion, which is the bird twig.

7:20And that relationship that forms between the two of them over the course of the game becomes one of the ways that a lighthouse finds new meaning in its life. I love that explanation towards how you kind of started this project. I think there was this, you know, even though the pandemic was terrible, there was this really cool moment when nature was kind of taking itself back. It was like, oh, word, if you have been stopped screwing this up, we can actually fix this. Right. Things are a little quieter right now. A little nightly, like, bro. People are chill. Like, people are not wilding out and saying the worst things on the planet.

7:56It was kind of nice for a hot second to be able to have that be in the space. I do love also this understanding of this game that doesn't have, you know, dialogue in it. I think even within that small understanding of like, what does that mean for the player and kind of the narrative scope of a game like this? when you've decided to do that as a main layer of a of the game loop as a part of the game mechanic what's the balance that you're looking for to kind of bridge and how hard is it to kind of basically you know anthropomorphize this lighthouse in a way that is going to then give the player an understanding of not only how to kind of interact with the world but how you know this this this This monolith of a being is showing emotion and giving connection to the world.

8:52How do you build that into a game like Keeper? Yeah, it's funny because that one decision, which is just to kind of create a wordless, what we call adventure puzzle game, really just it informs absolutely everything we did. because we wanted to make a weird game. And by taking words away, part of the original idea was like we wanted to make an experience that was a bit open to interpretation because everything nowadays is so literal, especially in games where you always have to worry about the player's ability to understand what they're supposed to do. So you quite often have it just, here's a mission, here's a bullet point of chores.

9:29You go and talk to half the NPCs in the world who are like, hey, if you talk to Bob, he knows where you should go. You talk to Bob, they're like, I think you might want to check upstairs. You know, so it's fine, right? I enjoy those games, too. But but we just really wanted a different experience. By removing that, it also elevates things like the art and the music as being important. And but without those words and things to guide the player, we then start going, OK, well, our goal isn't to make a hard experience. Our goal is to make what we call like a weird but chill experience. So, you know, we don't necessarily need to be dropping mission objectives and goal points.

10:03We want you to kind of almost accidentally find your way into puzzles and parts of the world and just sort of derive meaning from understanding what's going on. And, you know, it's kind of like it's sort of there to sort of simulate the feeling of waking up, you know, as a different being and trying to find connections with these other characters. And you don't speak the same language. You don't really understand what their background is. They didn't even know what you are, you know, and how does that all still form like some weird abstract or bizarre sense of community? Right. Because on the island, you're all part of this ecosystem.

10:37There is some invasive presence on the island and you're you're kind of working your way through that. But we had to do that all wordlessly. Right. So it it meant then that we also did things like have authored cameras so that you generally, you know, kind of know where you're going and that the important elements are almost always right around where you're at. ramps up a bit, but generally speaking, they're all kind of right there. And we also wanted people to care about these characters without talking and without putting text on the screen. So how do we do that? And luckily, we have some amazing animators who work at Double Fine.

11:11And we spent a lot of time on designing the lighthouse and the bird companion twig to be able to interact with each other, to be able to emote with one another and have that relationship form visually. I mean, these are just a few of the knock-on effects of just taking out dialogue for a game like we're making, you know, it's so many different things we had to do. I mean, and I love that you talked about those kind of very specific camera cuts, too. I think one of the things I love about Double Fine Games, and especially some of the ones that you've worked on specifically, have been there is a really brilliant understanding of framing.

11:51And I think the framing of where a character is going, how does that kind of show the journey that you're on while also giving you this kind of foreground background of like here's the place that you've been, here's the place that you are, and here's the place you're going is done really, really well in a game like this. Especially having that kind of no-fail state, which I think is really important because I as a Virgo have a hard time trying to figure out how to not do things and how to not have tasks and how to not check off boxes. So it's been fun playing this game and having those moments where I'm like, I don't have to figure it out.

12:32Like I have to figure it out to get to progress, but I don't have to figure out every small detail around me all the time. How do you continue to build worlds in that way? And especially in this game and thinking about not only what you talked about from a narrative perspective of kind of driving the player. We're giving them small, subtle understandings and hints to be able to do stuff, but also kind of making sure that they are not lost. You know, like they are not, how do you balance no fail with frustration in that sense? Yeah, it's an interesting approach, you know, because normally when you're designing a game, that sort of conventional wisdom is always like, well, there's this really frustrating quit and then there's like no challenge boredom.

13:16And then you try to kind of weave your way through that. And I think that's a good guideline for games that are based on challenge or mechanical skill or some sort of power fantasy. But this game is none of them. So I think what we try to do is always make sure that you're interested and delighted or amazed or surprised. We always say it's about the unexpected in this game. And, you know, we've switched it up a lot frequently. So, you know, you're not, you never really know what to expect. So we try to hold your interest that way. And then in terms of just making sure people don't get too stuck or lost, you know, one of the things I learned way back when making stacking was that, although with games that are really specialized in fluid motion and action platforms, people don't mind re-traversing.

14:12They really don't like it in puzzle games. Like most people really just do not like it. So for the puzzles that we have, especially in the earlier part of the game, generally what you need to solve the puzzle is all around you. And so there's not a lot of re-traversing. There's just a bit of looking around and using the lighthouse's light and the bird to kind of like find things. A lot of what we do is kind of put you in the middle of a puzzle situation and you sort of find the first step in that really easily. It's impossible to miss. but then you sort of and you're still not really sure what your goal is but then it kind of dawns on you hopefully halfway through like the overall puzzle chain like oh you know this character wants his eyes back that's what these things are i guess i'm going to help him find his eyes so you so it's kind of a little bit different take on puzzle design where normally you see a problem you know this door is locked where do i find the key in our case you sort of stumble into these things that are very integrated in the world and that that was what was really important to us was not to have a difficult puzzle with really deep or complex mechanics that is overly done to our world, but to have the puzzles help your understanding or exploration or interest in being in the world.

15:21And to that end, they're not very hard and there's no death state, there's no fail state. We still try to strike the balance where you just sometimes you have to spend some time looking around for a thing, or sometimes you maybe flip your expectations with how you're using some so it's not um you know just checking a box uh there's still some exploration and experimentation but um the goal was never uh to kind of like hard stop you and the goal was just to kind of like make you uh feel part of the world and and interact with those characters more and i and i'm finding in my playthrough that you you you nailed all of those pieces it feels very it feels very um like i'm still having those aha moments every time i'm going through a puzzle and and finishing a puzzle or getting to the getting closer to a solution and it's feeling like oh oh that thing that thing that i was kind of being shown multiple times maybe if i put a little bit more attention to that thing i'd be able to kind of do it it really checks you in a really interesting way to be able to again slow you down in a world where we're constantly being inundated with multiple things all the times we're constantly being distracted by so much this game has been really fun to be able to kind of like slow down and and refocus on not only a task at hand but seeing how those tasks are connected to the storytelling and and the world building that we wind up seeing um i also loved you know you talked a little bit about one of my favorite games uh of all time and stacking which i loved uh when i first got a chance to play that game and you talked a little bit about the the way this game has been kind of animated and i see little small through lines across those games in some ways like there's this really dope animation that the team has done where and shout out to all of you for doing this where the lighthouse is broken up into these segments and when you move each segment kind of wiggles a little bit it immediately made me think of stacking in that way of like oh that's the feeling of the dolls kind opening in some of those small ways.

17:22So talk to me a little bit about, you know, what's it been like to, you know, have a lineage in this space. And, you know, that game was almost 15 years ago at this point, you know, coming. I mean, look, trust me, my receding hairline understands. But it's like one of those things of being able to see, you know, games and creative ideas and creative directors and folks have these through lines throughout their career and pick up small pieces of their touchstones and pedigrees of things. I'm not saying that specific one is, but it's cool to be able to see that. How does it feel knowing that some of these pieces across your career are coming with you into new games and into new experiences and into new delightful things that players get a chance to play with?

18:11Yeah, it's really interesting. I think more than anything else, I appreciate when I feel like the thing I'm watching or playing was made by a human, which sounds like a strange thing to say, but it's not so strange anymore in 2025, which is to say it has some sort of point of view. And it may not be my point of view. It may be someone with a very different approach and background, but I appreciate a huge variety of things. And so I think I like to see when some of those sort of themes or motifs kind of go through. I love looking at a body of work. I I go into a gallery and I see only one painting from a particular artist I'm almost never just like oh man this artist is great but when I see a body of work I always almost always get it and for me that becomes more meaningful so uh you know I was just talking to a friend of mine the other day and I was like ah they're like how you doing how you know how's this going and I was like well it's great it's it's really good uh I mean we're just talking about other art projects and I was like you know I'm almost like am I just stuck in the same ideas and themes or you know so you always feel like you're wanting to explore things that are meaningful to you as a creator over time, but you also don't want to be resting on your laurels.

19:24So, you know, you want to be like making new things. And I think I try to be aware of that. But at the same time, I know that I'm kind of obsessed with the sense of self or what is the meaning or purpose of life or identity, you know, these huge questions that you can't really answer with just one work. And I think so a lot of the games that I direct are related to identity or, you know, that like, what is the self, you know, the sense of self stacking was an example of that. And I think this game to a different extent is a little bit about that. I think this one's a little bit more about, like I said, kind of, I just, I'm going to badly quote Alejandro Yorgoski here, but I remember at one point I was watching interview with him and he said like, well, what if the point of life is to create for yourself a soul?

20:08and I thought that's the best meaning of life I could imagine which is to say like the meaning is what you give it but it is the actions you take to find and build for yourself that soul and I think this game was a little bit inspired by that idea too I mean I get that vibe from it the way that you shared that and thank you for sharing that because I feel like while I'm going through this journey I am looking not only for meaning within it but also thinking about what is this trying to evoke in me? You know, what are the feelings and emotions and ideas that it is kind to give me with various, not only from an overarching, you know, middle front, you know, beginning, middle and end of it, but like every chapter feels like it's giving me a new version of that, which I think is hard to do in a game that is not super, super long.

20:56It's a really good bite-sized game in terms of length for folks who are thinking about, you know, how long this game is i think it's like a really perfect length for for what it is and i think trying to then circle back and have those reflective moments about like all right what did i just consume what am i consuming how does it make me feel and you're hitting all those notes which i think i which i love about your work i think you being so self-reflective about all of those pieces um is is is rare within games these days and i think it's it's nice to be able to see not only this kind of touch that, but overarching Double Fine games do that in a lot of different ways.

21:35I want to talk a little bit about sound design because sound design is dope. I love sound design understandings and folks who really get it and have that moment of clarity. Talk to me a little bit about how important sound design was in this game to really nail the feeling of the world around you and kind of sparking those aha moments. yeah i mean i'm with you on sound and music and and for me you know one of the things i almost accidentally learned early earlier in my career at leading games was that you need to involve your music and sound folks from day one in the process and i and it's really honestly a cheat and i say that because like music and sound is so much better at conveying emotion than any other art form in my opinion and if you have them as creative partners from day one your game instantly has more uh personality uh and you don't wind up overcompensating it for really in other much more laborious or uh heavy-handed ways um and because i love the art of implication and subtext and all that you know and so music is a big big part of that um and for this game uh you know our uh Camden Sautard is our audio director at Double Fine.

22:48And he worked with a team of people who all did amazing work on the game. And it was really fun because, you know, on some level, one of the ideas in the game is that it's kind of like a surreal fever dream on one level where it makes no scientific sense that there's like living rocks and three-eyed trees and stuff. But at the same time, we're sort of implying through the visual design and the sonic design that everything kind of is alive. There's a sense of liveliness to everything. And so the audio design reflects that a bit. And so we would say like, okay, well, here's this character that looks kind of like a crab, you know, but it's got anemone legs and a wheel for a leg and portholes for eyes and, you know, weird, weird, like mix of inorganic, inorganic stuff.

23:33And so, you know, you give it to audio folks and, you know, of course they could have just like put standard crabs in, but they come back with something that like sounds like something I hadn't heard before. You're like, well, I can see the physicality of the crab is represented, but there's like, it sounds much more alive or organic, you know, or sometimes we have these sort of biomechanical characters that are alive and they have, you know, but their audio design is, you know, at one time it's inorganic, but also it's got a warmth to it mixed in there. It's really, really magical stuff they did.

24:02And our composer, David Earl, also did a crazy... In fact, Camden just told me this morning that he actually did 111 tracks for this game, which is insane. So we're going to have a huge soundtrack release. But he actually created some of his own instruments for this game. So he's got some really weird... weird like again a great mix of like you go into like the the area where there's like the little clockwork guys and you definitely get like there's a certain sort of baroque motor rhythm like you get one like a clock but then there's like all sorts of organic warmth mixed in with it and stuff you're not even sure what exactly those colors are really cool stuff um so i couldn't be happier working those guys and it's all because they've been on the project the entire time you know and that's like a lot of times in the game industry audio folks get added at the end you know yeah and that's a huge missed opportunity i mean even the amount of tracks you just said that just blew my mind i was like please please make sure that man has some pto stocked up because i need some time off to be able to not make things but as a person who loves you know sound design and even the way that you've kind of figured out how to trick the player trick the player with the sound of the lighthouse's light i think is even super important too like the kind of uh intensification and that's not a word intensifying the beam of light that comes out for for certain aspects of the game and seeing how that hits certain things in the world that also just feels like a really nice kind of like touchstone of like where the sound design is is really hitting for me and there are like moments in this game that i think when everything hits perfectly like you hit a scene the sound hits and then all of those things kind of work together to to pull all these parts together it is really beautiful in that kind of dream state version of of what you're going for aesthetically i think you're really nailing a lot of that with with the game and then bravo to the team for that how do you how do you i mean this makes you really think really quickly like you know i know multiple games are happening at the studio how are you hoarding talent for stuff in those ways like all right divvy up i need you for my team and you go you're gonna go over here i mean everybody's brilliant at the studio but like when you have those moments how does it work for like logistically of like we have multiple games working right now we know which ones are in the pipeline we know which ones are coming out next how are you all kind of divvying up the that version of the workload for multiple projects like that?

26:39How does that work? Yeah, it's, it's a, I would say it is a constantly evolving and tricky process. Yeah, you know, it's, it's, you know, usually, you know, you sort of, I mean, a lot of it just kind of depends on what was happening. So luckily for me, you know, most, most of the company was working on Psychonauts two at the same time, right? So when that kind of ended, you know, I think there were a lot of new projects starting around the same time. So a lot of folks were more available than maybe in the past we've had things offset so i think you look sort of you sort of try and create uh like describe the emotional heart of your game early on the creative heart of your game and then go okay this is a type of experience and then you know you talk to the people who are you go up to the animators and you're like look if this game's gonna have any emotion like you're a huge part of it and it's not gonna be we're gonna have cut scenes but it's not gonna be dialogue cut scenes like we're in psychonauts you know a lot of it's going to just be the wordless relationship of these characters.

27:38And you're going to have to animate all these weird characters. None of our standard rigging biped tool, none of that's going to work. So every character has a unique skeleton, every single character is completely different animations. It's all bespoke in this game. So you try and get people excited by that. But then you tell the engineer something different, and you're like, oh, it's just a few systems. No, not at all.

28:02I mean, everyone at Double Fine is usually up for just like not only challenge, but trying something different. I think it's kind of like Tim has really sort of set the studio up to attract those sort of folks. And I think people are just generally up for that. And I think, you know, they, but yeah, it is, it is, it is tough, right? Like, you know, trying to share resources or people as well, sometimes between the other projects. And, but, you know, usually they're, usually we're offset a little bit, as you see keepers coming out before our other unannounced games. And so, you know, you quite often a lot of us work on on everything that in the studio, at least a little capacity or maybe like another team has a milestone or two where they need to like it would benefit to scale down a bit.

28:53And then we can kind of steal those people for a couple of months and get some fresh eyes, you know, and they get to get involved and bring themselves to it. Yeah, I always I always think about that because when I worked in studios, we were working on a very singular project. So everyone was like heads down, focus on that thing. um and wondering what it looks like from the opposite end of like having multiple things happening at the same time and being like all right we're shifting this and this and this and this and then also like you're sharing tech inside the studio right like you're learning together like what does this mean while we're building this thing of what how can that can potentially be used in in other projects that we're working on so i think that stuff is from a game dev nerddom layer i'm always fascinated by that part of of how it works um we're we're almost out of time uh Time has flown by.

29:41For folks who are coming to this game and having an affinity for the work that the studio has already done, what's the main kind of pull-away, takeaway you want them to have from a game like Keeper? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, certainly it's different than other Double Fine games in some ways, but it still has some of the sort of core Double Fine approach, which is to say I think it's a little different than a lot of things. I think it has a lot of heart, like a lot of Double Fine games. You know, you've got to be up for a little weirdness. But, you know, we really wanted to make this a beautiful experience as well.

30:19And so I think a lot of the fans of our games will be into this game as well, even though it's maybe not, I'd say, outright funny as like Tychonauts. But it has some absurdity and some moments of joy and laughter in there as well. as a lot of drama in other ways. We were talking about this the other day and I was like, you know, I think my favorite parts of games and movies and paintings, books, whatever, is not only experiencing them, but then actually having something to talk to other people about and hearing what they took away from it. And I think when you make a game like Keeper, which is, you know, about five to six hours for a playthrough, for an average playthrough, you can have that experience.

31:04You don't have to play 80 hours and then like, oh, someone's already moved on to something else. You can kind of play these shorter games and then see what sticks with you. You can kind of like digest it a little bit and talk to other people. And so I hope people do that. And I'm really looking forward to like their takes on certain things, because I think we've tried to provide like specific narrative arcs for our characters and have some closure. So the story has a beginning, middle and end. But at the same time, there's a lot of things that are very open to interpretation and can be seen in a few different ways.

31:33And I think that's my, again, my favorite part of art, what you bring to it. So I really, uh, I'm looking forward to seeing people play and talk about it. And, uh, maybe, maybe they'll realize something I didn't even realize about a theme that's in the game. I mean, I'm, I'm there. I mean, I'm, I'm making my own stories in my mind about what's happening. I mean, my version of lighthouse has a Cockney accent, so it works. You know, I will not do that accent on here so I don't get smashed on the internet. that but uh but in my mind you know he's walking around with twig hanging out talking talking about i had a bad idea about that we should hire willem dafoe but all he does is the exertion sound effects for the lighthouse so if you're like the most expensive underutilized actor so he'd just be like if if you want to get the gofundme ready i will be the first person to promoting i'm down let's make this happen i need this myself now that's the thing i've also crafted songs i think should go with the with the with the game as well there are too many hip-hop tracks that talk about light i think we're perfect for it we got it leasy for sheezy we got litty here litty litty uh it's it's a lot of a lot of stuff in there in the mix um so trust me the open to interpretation layer is being fully realized within my mind body and soul around keifer oh thank you lee thank you seriously so much for spending some time with me today again it is very rare where you get the chance to talk to people who have made art that that you really love and get a chance to talk to them about their creative process and talk to them about you know how they go about the work that they do in a space that i don't think a lot of developers get a chance to kind of share that.

33:21So being able to do that on our show means a ton to me as a fan of your work and as a fan of Double Fine's work. So thank you so much for spending time with us today on Spawn of Me. Appreciate you. Yeah, no, it's my honor. I love talking about all these things and I'm with you. I want to hear more creators talk about the stuff in our industry. Yeah. So give the folks the pitch. Where can they go check out the game? When does it drop in? All that good stuff. It drops this Friday, October 17th and it'll be on Xbox Series, Game Pass. It'll be on Series S and X and Windows PC as well as Steam. Yeah, I love it.

33:57I am having a blast with this. I'm going to be talking about all of my play time with the game on our review. They'll be dropping it on Embargo Day and Date. So make sure you're checking out all of our work on Spawn of Me for all of that goodness. Everybody at home, give Lee and the team some love. Go shout them out when you get a chance to play it. Share some of your experiences and how you came to the game and how you felt about it online and all the good places that you can. We're going to take a quick break. And then right after this, I'm going to head on out for this episode of Spawn to Me.

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