5 formulas for a high impact introduction

0:00Helen:Hi, I'm Sarah. And I'm Helen. And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we borrow some brilliance from a person, a place, even an object from time to time. And we turn that curiosity into ideas for action for you and your squiggly career in a way that we hope is useful and relevant wherever you are and whatever you do. And so today it is my turn to borrow a bit of brilliance and use it to spark our conversation. and I've got a person times a place so the person is Rebecca Okamoto and the place is Ted and we're going to talk about her new talk which is called how to introduce yourself and get hired and I saw it I think I don't know what email came into my inbox but I clicked for two reasons one are you applying for some jobs and this is how I tell you no but as we will talk I do think you are always you're maybe not always trying to get hired but I think you are always trying to get heard and I think introductions are quite a big part of that so I think I was I don't know I've not got any job in mind just in case you're worried but I thought the title was intriguing also I looked at how many people have watched that TED talk in quite a short amount of time and it is it was released four months ago and already it has had 1.7 million views which is quite yeah it's quite good going I think for a TED talk so clearly I mean it's a good talk but I would argue that the topic is a good talk there's lots of practical stuff in it but I think clearly most people most of those views are because people have clicked because of the title and it's obviously a topic that appeals so I thought on that basis it's probably interesting to our audience and something that we should talk about a bit more well you'd made me try out a new GPT by 8am this morning so Oh, yes.

1:50Helen:I'm glad you said that. It obviously piqued your interest enough to create something and to be like, you need to try this out before this afternoon. Well, yeah, OK. Well, that's actually a good lead into what people can expect from listening today. So we are going to talk about the five formulas that Rebecca shares in her TED Talks for how to get introduced. And so we'll talk about some common mistakes people make with introductions. We'll go through the formulas and we have both applied them to ourselves. but in the process of doing that as Sarah said I built a little custom GPT because I absolutely love doing those of course I did I love doing it and and it is based on the content of the TED talk and it will take the five formulas for introducing yourself it will ask you five questions and it will then generate you five personalized introductions so are they perfect probably not I still think you might want to tweak some of them but it does get you there quicker and so we will put the link to the chat gpt in the show notes it will also be in the one page um summary that we use for every of the uh every one of our podcast episodes and if you can't find it um just messages helen and sarah at squiggly careers.com but it is a very quick way i think of putting what we're going to talk about today into action yeah i was thinking about this because i get nervous meeting new people um once i've met someone once then i'm absolutely fine but for the first time is definitely just it's not I don't dread it it's definitely not that level of anxiety but I it definitely makes my heart go faster you know like I would almost like notice a bit of like adrenaline or kind of just needing to take a deep breath like I would never want to feel rushed going into meeting someone for the first time and I was thinking in those kind of introductions which is probably the ones that I do the most so through our work I'm meeting someone for the first time and to your point I I want to be heard I suppose we also want to be hired as a company right so it's not like I'm asking them for a job but we are asking them to to partner with us so it's just so just a different frame on on really the same thing and I'm always so mindful of I want to make a good impression I sort of want to do amazing if proud so I really believe in what we do so I don't doubt it's sort of the substance that sits behind what I'm going to say but I would hate the idea of like that not coming across in a way that feels like credible or useful um so when I was going through this and when I was doing the um using your GPT like that was definitely my filter was almost like using a intro to make a good impression like how do those two things come together yeah and also I think everyone has gremlins do you reckon people have I was like oh I wonder what the connection is between this particular context and people's confidence gremlins because you know loads of people's most common one is um judgment or i wonder if they like me or what are they thinking about me and i was wondering whether you worry about that a lot more like in this kind of context um i definitely that's not even one of my gremlins but it's the only time that gremlin sort of ever appears for me is meeting someone for the first time and i'll Like, do they think I am boring?

5:00Helen:Do they think I'm, like, too enthusiastic? Oh, have I not given them enough opportunity to speak? Have I dominated the conversation? I think quite a lot of that chatter that we've talked about before goes through my head, particularly in this situation. So I was like, that was the other little dot I connected as I was reading through this. It's interesting because I don't think I'm nervous meeting new people. but I don't think or maybe I think I could get better at introducing myself because I don't think I'm bad but I think I could get better and this whole podcast has been prepping for it has made me think I don't think I'm very consistent in how I introduce myself and and I think that might affect I don't know I just don't I think I just meet people and go hi I'm Helen I do and I'll say different things to different people whereas I think what what we're going to talk through is almost being a bit more strategic about the impression you want to create and how your introduction allows you to create that and what i really like about the five formulas that we're going to talk about is i don't think all of them are right i think you should i think you should generate i think you should use the chapter to generate them so you can see but some of them i'm like i would never say that and you'll see that some of them are around strengths and passion and i think i'm much more likely to say those but even that is just interesting and i think we'll just start saying that consistently and then i think you can probably become more confident introducing yourself because you already know what you're going to say at the start which means that then you then just get into the rest the rest of the conversation and these by the way are designed to lead to a conversation I think that's what Rebecca says in the TED talk that making a good introduction is the difference between someone saying nice to meet you at the end of it so I kind of do mine you just go oh nice to meet you like end of chat and someone saying oh that's interesting tell me more so it the ideal is you have this like designed introduction that you can kind of rely on because it feels like you and you're confident in it that then results in a conversation rather than someone just moving on to the next person I was thinking about this because that that point really stood out to me and I had some feedback recently from one of our learning partners about how well I had introduced myself to somebody new in their company so I was really pleased with that but then I was reflecting on it in relation to this and I was thinking do you know what I think I do I don't think I get to tell me more I think I tell them everything so because what she said to me was you do a great job of storytelling so I think I do the I can describe the story and like why we do what we do and if somebody has the kindness I suppose and the patience to hear me out then I think I'm I'm convincing you know it's like it's a it's you know it's like interesting to listen to there are different bits that people can hook on to there's a lot of interesting kind of things in there but it's not it's not like a short succinct introduction to make a you know and often that is the that is your that's more common I think where you've got you're in a meeting there's six of you you all have to go around and just kind of quickly say like who you are like why you're there what you do um and those ones I find much harder I'm like well if you give you know like often it is harder to be shorter you know to say things in a really simple way I think if I can tell a story to make a first impression then I'm fine and I think I did this in interviews as well when I did a lot more interviews if I had that kind of an interview I think I came out of it really well if I had an interview where you know like there wasn't much room around the edges it was very prescriptive I then think I find that that much that's harder because it's just not not as natural my style so I'm like I don't think anyone has ever said tell me more to me like you told me enough yeah and move on I think more likely that more likely that um well maybe just to kind of frame these formulas a little bit um she does talk about Rebecca in the TED talk these are 20 words or fewer so they are short and I don't I don't think that is right for every situation you know actually I think in an interview I might I might feel a bit abrupt if I did that like I do probably want to do because I'm trying to create a bit of a little bit of connection but I think if you're going to an event and you're meeting someone quite quickly for the first time um I think you want to get to conversation quite quickly Sarah I think your thing is a really good point like if you're in a room you know the round the room thing yeah you definitely don't want to storytell there because it's it's sort of selfish isn't it to use time in that way or one that is probably specific to Sarah and me but maybe other people could make a connection with what they do is sometimes we'll be on someone else's podcast and they'll say before we kick off Helen introduce yourself and that I know is they've already they want that it's their conversation they want to lead it I shouldn't be dominating too much at the start so that's got to be quite a quick thing so for what we're thinking of to make sure this feels useful for you I would think about what are the moments where you relatively quickly need to introduce yourself and your work to somebody else and then which of the five formulas we're going to talk through feel most relevant to you and how you want to come across yeah spot the situation yeah that helps me spot the situation so shall we go through the five formulas i'll say what it is and then we'll should i get my gpt ready do we do that as we go yeah we're gonna do that i think i'm just so proud of myself that i've done it um yeah so just on the five questions that gpt will ask you a little bit about who are you most likely to make introductions to?

10:26Like what are the work that you do? What are the strengths you want to stand out? It'll ask you all those sorts of questions to generate this for you. And so Sarah and I have already done that to be able to give you our examples. So formula number one is called the benefit introduction. So the formula here is I help, insert your who, achieve, insert your what. Okay, so here you're quite simple. It's a really short simple it's basically who do you help to achieve what um so sarah what was your

10:57Helen:what did it generate for you there i help senior leaders grow their people's performance by making development practical relevant and owned by individuals nice nice and to be honest sarah and mine are probably going to be quite similar because we pretty much do the same job um i think i went a little bit broader on my who because i got i help senior leaders um in hr and lnd build learning cultures where people take ownership of their career development how do you what were your reflections on your on your kind of introduction response that i would never say that one tell me why because i didn't like the emphasis on senior leaders um because i was like actually we believe in kind of democratizing development developments for everybody um so i can't imagine ever saying those words out loud to anyone like oh well we help senior leaders and i yeah it felt um not as inclusive as i think i would like to feel um the bits i did like was practical and relevant like i think i do use those words all the time and i use the word useful a lot which wasn't in there um but for me it just felt perhaps just not warm enough or human enough um so i i that one i i didn't connect with as much as some of the others how about you um well my reflection on it was because it asked that i actually have a few different people i make introductions to so i might need some different statements because sometimes i am introducing myself i am introducing myself to senior leaders because that's who might sign off some of the programs that you run and sometimes i'm introducing myself on a stage to people who are in the school and career community so i don't know if i could find a universal one for both but i did think oh this is more tailored to one part of my work and just a reflection on what sarah said i have trained the gpt once it's once it asks you five questions and it generates them i've trained it to end with a question back of like is there anything you'd change so it's if you kind of if you go oh it's not warm enough for me or you at the end of it you can then do that and it will then regenerate them.

13:02So I do think the first pass is just for you to look at and critique and then if you want to make it even more personalised, you can give it a bit of extra time.

13:10Helen:Yeah, because mine gave me a recommendation that I disagreed with. Oh, are we allowed to? You know, once we go through, I'll tell you which one. But then I was like, oh no, that's a tease. We'll end with the recommendation you don't agree with. Do you know where I thought that first one could be good though? And I wondered whether this would be true for us because I definitely see it with other people. is you know when you are making introductions you know like today you were talking about on other people's behalf so let's say someone we work with a company I think they should know another company because I'm like oh they might be helpful you know being able to say oh I think these people that's the who um could help you because this is sort of what they do in a really clear and short way and sometimes I have given feedback to people I know who I know do really good work but I struggle to describe like who they are and what they do and I was thinking I wonder if people ever have that challenge with us because you want people to be able to easily recommend you you know so we we know for example that sometimes people just describe us as like they're the squiggly people yeah so true so and we know we like I have seen those because sometimes you know you end up seeing the emails or whatever so you sometimes see something like oh you might know them as like the creators of squiggly careers or they're the people who came up with squiggly careers um and and then it's so that often helps us i think the kind of the squiggly careers concept and the fact we came up to that and that has had a ripple effect that's useful but i wonder then whether then people consistently know like the what like maybe what we can do for organizations because actually we don't talk about that as much it's quite different for different companies so i think maybe there is something in the you know like the who and the what but perhaps more for i was thinking for written introductions rather than things you say out loud like some sort of benefit introduction but brackets by recommendation like so how yeah yeah like it okay let's do the second one then so this is the breakthrough introduction and it's a bit of a build on the one that we just talked about so um i help who so your target audience i help who achieve what so so far so much like the first one but the next bit is an interesting build without and this is where you put a negative consequence in so you know without um taking up lots of time without um increasing the cost of whatever that is things but sometimes for the breakthrough then is like what's different about you what's different about the way that you do it or the way that you work um so what did you get on this one what was the what was the palette change uh first bit was same i help senior leaders improve people's performance without development feeling like another hr initiative no one owns that was the without yeah and i got it well again same bit at the start and my without was um so i help senior leaders build learning cultures of people own their careers without thinking that progression only means promotion okay i would say that one i do say that this the one that you got i don't i don't ever i mean i don't ever say to hr people without it feeling like another hr initiative because i'm like i mean that feels a bit harsh doesn't it just what i do say and i i mean i have said this recently you know sometimes with our work i will say to people you know what we don't want this to be is another initiative that kind of appears and disappears like we don't want squiggly careers to be a flash in the pan for example and i'll yeah i'll say that about us um so i can see where it was trying to get to what i like about this one but i think i would call it something different is you are spotting a problem that might get people to nod and i do think people connect to problems so when we say to people progression's got to mean more than promotion now everyone's like definitely if i say um you know we don't want this just to be a program for this year and it's gone the year after because we'll put loads of effort in so we want it to kind of go beyond that everyone goes yeah because we've all done those things right we've done those things that didn't last as long as we wanted them to so I think having um having a problem that you are interested in or a challenge that you're grappling with or attention as part of your introduction I think is interesting um I just don't know if I'd describe it as like a breakthrough introduction to me it's more of like a problem introduction I prefer this one to the first one I if your aim is for someone to say tell me more I think you are more likely to get that one with this one because people are like oh like you said they'll identify with the the problem that you're solving and they kind of want to go well how do you do that how do you do it yeah that would be like how well I want to know that how do you do it is most likely to be the response there okay so that one maybe gets a kind of a higher rating from us um the third formula then is the passion introduction um and when I was sort of reading about this this passion introduction is particularly good for people I don't know maybe they don't want to lead with their role maybe because maybe their passion isn't actually the job that they do right now it's something i'm thinking side project helen and sarah you know when when we were doing jobs that were not you know well i was about to say not we're passionate we were passionate about our jobs but we did this on the side but maybe not quite as passionate as we were about learning and we might have been introducing ourselves to people who are more connected to our side project and so our day job was less relevant than the one that we were doing to help other people develop this one also made me think of people who uh on linkedin describe themselves through their passion either like they changed it so they haven't got a job title in the same way and they've they're using a description which tells you what they really care about and they do that in their summaries as well so back to this doesn't always have to be things that you say this one struck me as again something you might want to use on linkedin depending on you know for whatever reason if you can't choose your title or you don't connect with your title obviously we always want talents to be more than titles i felt like this was a different way into talking about as you you know the things that you care about yeah i love that and when we're thinking about quick introductions like we said at the start like they're going around the room i think linkedin if someone's going on your page that is effectively a quick introduction and so you're actually having having this at the top is um i might have a re-look at mine um so how do we get to this one so the formula for this one is i'm passionate about insert the thing that you're passionate about um to achieve what your audience values and so I'll maybe give you mine here and see what how Sarah is different here so I had I'm passionate about helping people build confident flexible careers to achieve success in a world where work keeps changing and my my reflections on this were I think I could I like the formula I quite like the formula but I thought I could probably write that one better myself I felt like I probably say words I use um you know because passion is so personal I felt like oh you're not going to be able to get get these words out of me as good as I can get them so I like the formula and it was a start but I would definitely want to make this one sound a bit more like me well I think my problem was I am never going to say the words I'm passionate about what would you say instead I mean anything but that but okay I enjoy doing well sort of like going oh I love you're like well I'm never gonna I don't like those kind of lofty statements I don't think about about like work in that way um so I would just never say out loud to someone I'm really passionate I just I just wouldn't um maybe that's also a bit of like a British cultural thing but I think I would say I really care about in fact I have said that to people I say but definitely say I really care about democratizing development I really care about learning without levels of work I definitely say that I do care I'm trying to work out whether I would ever actually say I don't know this so that's what that's why I struggled with this one because I was like what would I actually you know like the words that I would say in real life yeah and um yes this one caused a few problems for me I mean it it didn't get it completely wrong I mean it talked about I'm passionate about realistic career development I was like that sounds a bit more like me realistic um and then it went back to the senior leaders thing again but i think because i got caught up in like passion and introduction and i was like oh no that's just jarred a bit um yeah it just jars and and something i can't connect to you know like if you get to the point you're like it's never it's never going to work for you so um yeah i cross that one off i didn't like it so sarah didn't like the passion intro i i didn't mind it but like i did it did of the three I thought the first one felt too blunt so the benefit and the breakthrough felt the best so far the passion I didn't mind but needs a bit more work let's try out the fourth let's try the fourth so this one the fourth formula is the strength introduction let's see if this one resonates with you um so this one starts with I'm known for insert what you all want to be known for to achieve insert the outcome that you want someone to get from the thing you want to be known for so what did what did you get here well i also don't like saying i'm known for i think it sounds really arrogant oh like i'm known for this i hope you all appreciate this this is what i'm known for um so that bit i didn't like that bit um you can you can tell rebecca well i mean i do think it is important for people to know what they want to be known for you know when we talk about strengths and intent versus impact it was just the idea Yeah, I do think if you meet someone, say, hi, I'm Helen, I'm known for.

22:30Helen:I'm known. So this one, by this point, it was like 8.15 and I'd got a coffee. So my critical thinking brain had kicked it and I was getting a bit more critical as I was going through. Let's see what it generated and let's see how it would make it sound more like you. I'm known for making career development useful and relevant. So senior leaders see real performance improvement from their people. oh well i mean i know you don't like the senior leader thing but in one context of our businesses i really i actually really like a lot of that yeah i like the words useful and relevant i think i like that and i like people and performance it's obviously not just what we're about but i do think you know i do think if you make careers more appealing for people because they have more opportunities they that pays off in engagement retention recommendation lots of which i think translate to performance so I do I do believe it yeah I think I would always actually funnily enough want to zoom out a bit more which is slightly more passion territory to talk about squiggly careers really early on if I'm ever introducing myself I think because squiggly careers is the a the thing that sometimes people say tell me more because they've not heard about it or sometimes it's and this is a real bonus for me if they have heard about it great because then they just start asking questions and then you're sort of you've created a connection so I often think I would start you know I think the strengths one feels a bit too much about me you know versus I kind of want to talk about something that I do care about and I'm proud of which is this like the idea and the concept of squiggly careers which I then think we have made that useful and relevant for people and companies um but i think starting off with me just feels a bit like oh hello i'm meeting you let me tell you how great i am and that made me a bit uncomfortable what did you say oh well like i said it said the um said i'm known for turning career development to practical everyday learning to achieve real growth managers can actually deliver so again i don't i don't mean the words are right for me but here but i would say i'm known for energy like if i actually thought i do like the formula so and i would say that i would say i'm known for energy which helps that's what i would rather than say to achieve i'd probably say which helps to engage people in learning so they are more likely to take action so that's i i believe that and i think i would say it um so yeah that's a better way of doing it you know just writing that down as you were doing that so you're like if you if you do it that way that you just described because then I could get to in my in my head first you get to oh well I'm known for ideas that helps me to make career development useful um and that people can then turn that career development into action for their progression or whatever it might be I wonder whether you have to do it as like a almost a two stage process so actually listening to you going through this and I've not watched her talk but I know that you have I feel like the formula gets you the data you know like the well what are you known for how do you use that what's your who and what's your what and then you can turn it into like your version whereas obviously what we've done for the first one is it's then just sort of spat out the used using those exact phrases but I think probably the usefulness here comes from can for each of these formulas actually can you answer those questions because I think all of them are helpful to know the answer it creates clarity right knowing the answer to each of them and then you've just got to turn it into like the words that work that work for you rather than going oh I don't like the strengths one because it's a bit ego-y which is kind of where I went first if you just actually go with what would the answers be then I think you can do something with it I'm coming on to it often think you're coming back but I do think you know when things jar with you you know you're like oh I don't like that word I always think that's a useful thing to pause on and go oh why don't i like it why not which is completely valid that people can like and not like what whatever they want but what would i say instead you know so i i think it's almost useful to find the things that you're like oh i definitely wouldn't say that but then to sort of like work out what's why is it uncomfortable what could what could better sound like um so we've now got one more we've got our final our fifth formula um that you can use to introduce yourself which is the mission formula this one sounds kind of big let's see let's see what you think um so the A mission formula starts with, I'm on a mission to, I can't wait for Sarah's thoughts on this one.

27:05I'm on a mission to, and then insert what you're working towards, to achieve, and then whatever your audience values. And so I got here, I'm on a mission to replace outdated career ladders with squiggly career systems to achieve skills, ownership, and momentum at scale. And I was like, oh, it's the first time I thought of squiggly career system. I never used that word. I was like, what could that mean, was my thought. But I quite liked skills, ownership and momentum at scale. I was like, there's something in that. I tweak it a bit more, but I quite like the succinctness, the scalingness. There's a bit of energy in that that I think I could work with.

27:46Would I say that statement? Maybe not. A version of it, though.

27:50Helen:Yeah. Well, I suppose that's the point. As we're going through this, you don't have to take it literally. You don't then go and have to say that exact statement. like I don't say I'm on a mission but when I'm describing squiggly careers and amazing if I do say ambition which is quite close so often when I'm introducing us um and Helen and I rarely do this together so Helen's like oh interesting um if I'm introducing us to like a new potential learning partner somewhere in the world I will say um so as a company we're an ambition to make squiggly careers better for everyone um and like then I'll say and what that means practically I think that's how I often follow that up and what that means practically is about you know pizza helping people to learn as they go really helping people with like how they can take ownership for their career development making progression more than promotion that's where I think I probably like interchangeably say different things after that bit but I pretty much but I do say that first bit so even though if you just said to me mission I would have gone oh no that feels a bit too lofty um but i but i yeah i i do say ambition fully enough that's not what the um gpt got me to but also that's partly because of what i put into it so i was thinking you could go back because this took it's really really fast to do the gpt was i did it really quickly um and so i think you could also do it from a few different angles and obviously you'd get some quite different prompts back um in return and also if i looked at my linkedin like i do use those words i think probably the mission one is actually probably closest to some of the things that I would actually say.

29:22Yeah.

29:23Helen:Though it's not the recommendation that I got at the end. Oh God, we're coming on to your recommendation. I really like your mission to ambition swap. I think I feel more comfortable saying my ambition or ambition is. That just, that feels better than mission. Yeah. And also I think it's good to be ambitious. So that's, you know, that's a contentious word. So some of you might be listening and be like, oh, I don't, I know that some people don't like the word ambition. Yeah. and can feel quite uncomfortable with it but I think I am I am comfortable with it and I I am ambitious and I want amazing if to be ambitious so I think because you believe in it you can say it with confidence and credibility you're like yeah that is our ambition and do I think we'll ever be done like no but do I think we've we will always keep like striving to like get closer and closer to that ambition you know that's when I feel like I could probably get quite enthusiastic and start telling lots of people about squiggly careers for a long time So I want to end with Rebecca's advice to ask a question in follow-up.

30:21So you kind of introduce yourself using a version of one of these formulas and then you ask a question. But before we do that, I want to hear, because it is built, if you do choose to use a DVD, it is built to give you a recommendation and I'm very intrigued by what Sarah disagreed with. Come on, what did it say?

30:39Helen:Well, mine said to use the breakthrough introduction. Oh, okay. um which with what it wrote obviously i'm never going to say to hr i'm never going to criticize hr directly in that way um that doesn't feel like a smart a smart thing to do but thinking about it if i if i took away exactly what it had written and went back to like the formula i am very attracted to solving problems spotting problems um being very transparent about things that are not working and going well like let's let's look at those and let's see what we can do differently like I like constraint thinking um I think it helps you to be you know curious and creative so actually it probably is the area that I'm most in like interested in I think I use the ambition mission one the most like at the moment so I think probably initially when I read it I was like oh that feels really far away but actually having talked it through I'm like actually maybe not it probably is the most likely what did you get um I actually can't remember to be honest and I'd have to look at it and distract myself from this conversation.

31:41Obviously nothing that was so compelling that it made me remember it. But my reflections on it are my top three are the breakthrough one. I quite like it to your point and the problem solving. I do like the strengths one if I'm just sort of introducing myself. And I do like the mission, which I'm now going to call the ambition one. So they're my top three. And my reflection is I would use those in very different situations. so if we're talking to companies and we're basically talking about how we can help them with our work I'd go break through if I'm in a big like a stagey moment or I'm on a podcast or something like that I would use the ambition one like you know if people were saying tell us a bit more about you and your company I'd do that one and if people were trying to get to know me personally like oh that tell me a bit more about you then I'd probably do the strengths one so I think but I think having them written you know just confidence clarity and consistency if I got those written with the words that I really liked I think it would I'd feel I don't know I'd feel like I'd done myself justice in those situations yeah yeah yeah and you said she recommends asking a question yeah so again back to you're introducing yourself to create a connection that results in a conversation so if you are just introducing yourself someone to say oh that's nice and they walk away it's kind of you know we haven't quite got to like the tell me more thing so a way to do it is once you've done your introduction and remember these are short introductions we're going to ask a follow-up question which can either be quite a generic one so how are you finding the event or what is it that you do so something quite generic or it could be specific to your introduction so mine might be how are you supporting career development in dot dot dot at the moment or I might say what problems do you think you've got with progression in your organization yeah and and so you quickly connect what you've talked about to them so it drives a conversation and again I don't think I have thought consciously about quick introduction follow-up question to create connection I don't think I've thought that before so I did think that was quite a useful

33:44Helen:ending of it yeah because you could you could say to somebody these are the problems that I'm really interested in working on or solving and there were two or three and then you know you could explicitly ask the question which of those feels most familiar for you or is there something different that I've missed that's kind of really on your mind and then someone goes oh it's definitely the progression um promotion one and you're like okay let's talk about that um or I think if it was more informal like we're doing a lot of events in a few weeks time when then like a lobster comes out and we'll be both be meeting lots and lots of people in quite a short space of time I would then always ask a question based on like what we've been doing so yeah oh what one thing really stood out for you from listening to the speakers or um you know when did you first start listening to the squiggly careers podcast and someone might say oh imagine I've never listened actually I just thought I'd come along um or but you know you then sometimes get people going like oh I I've listened I listen in an ad hoc way or I've listened since the very start and I always find it really interesting to hear people's like listening habits but also how they use the podcast yeah because i think for our community it's always it is quite different too oh my gosh we should do a little post on that because i feel like there could be some really intriguing insights because you always get like the i don't know walking the dog but then you get some really curious ones like oh squiggly careers on a kayak and you're like never yes i never knew so i love it in fact if you are listening now um as well as on a kayak no yeah if you're on a kayak but if you are listening now we would love to know like where you listen to the podcast um email us helen and sarah at squiggly careers.com because i think i could create a very fun post on social media with all the like you know picture of a dog picture of a kayak and i let's see how random these listening moments and places are and lots of people probably commuting and walking their dogs i would imagine too i could do a train in a car yeah i could do i could do that too um so thank you for listening today we hope you have found it useful we will summarize those five formulas in our pod sheet as i said you can download that from our website which is amazing if.com we also put that in our weekly newsletter squiggly careers in action so make sure you're signed up for that we'll put the link in the show notes that comes out every tuesday has all the links to listen and watch the podcast and the pod sheet too thank you so much for listening that's everything for this week and we'll see you again soon bye for now bye everyone

36:15Thank you.