#561 How to Spend More Time in Your Zone of Genius at Work

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0:30Today we helped a Latte for Sam Coffee shop get an insurance quote simply and easily And made sure A floral delivery van was able to make someone's day We're the Hartford With decades of experience insuring millions of unique small businesses When it comes to your small business insurance Thank you One size absolutely does not fit all Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash smallbusiness When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

1:12Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It just made me think differently about how I was spending my time and whether I was having the most impact I could with my abilities. There are actually four zones that we're going to talk about. I've got 41 % of my time in my zone of genius, and I've got 32 % of time in my zone of excellence, which means that I'm spending over 70 % of time on things that I'm good and great at.

1:51I think my zone of incompetence was much bigger before I ran my own company. This is like uniquely you. This is the diamond in your day. It's that kind of stuff. Helen creates clarity like no one I've ever met. And I go, oh, but if I could take that 22 % or 22%. Imagine if you applied even half of that 22 % to creating more clarity. Taking people's work, turning it into data for their development and doing something that's going to make a positive difference. like. It's a lovely link with strengths.

2:27Hi, I'm Sarah. And I'm Helen. And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we borrow some brilliance and turn that curiosity into useful action for you and your career. And before I tell you who we are borrowing brilliance from this week, I want to let you know that this is another episode that we are doing in partnership with post-it notes because we love them and use them all the time and try to find as many ways as possible to bring them into our work. I was using them. Oh, I think I was talking about them on a session, a virtual session the other week. And I was talking. Did you get the old big yellow one out?

2:59I got the lobster ones out. Oh, our special ones. And I think everyone in the chat was like, they're so amazing. And then I said, oh, you've not seen anything yet. You've not seen my post-it big notes. And then somebody messaged me afterwards. They're like, where do I get these from the amount of times i send a link to those post-it notes i know i know but sometimes in a session because i use them also as like a way to remind myself of like what's coming next sometimes i will end up holding them up and people are like wait a minute what is that it's bigger than your head it actually is so we're using them today because we use them pretty much every day um but i think they're just a really good way of creating clarity and i also think like two people can work on them together um which is what what is what we're going to do today because we are going to talk about your zone of genius.

3:40I've been waiting for this episode. Did you just want me to tell you that you're a genius? You finally realised that we should talk about my zone of genius. I've actually done this before we spoke and your zone of genius is really small, just to let you know. That can't be true. The model is flawed. So I had heard about this. So we're borrowing this brilliance from somebody called Gay Hendricks and I have researched this a little bit. It came from me listening to Emma Greed's Start With Yourself book. I know. I know you're listening to that book because every day you send me quotes. I really like it.

4:12I know you do. It might come on there. I do like Emma Greed for many, many reasons. It's an interesting book. You might not agree with everything, innit? But it definitely gets you thinking. But she mentions, she seems like a very curious person. She reads and journals every day. So in the book, she mentions a lot of things that she's read and why it's helpful. Yeah, she talks about theory and models and research, but in a very applied way. And so she mentioned this. I was sort of listening to it, the audiobook, and she mentioned Zone of Genius and why it was helpful. And I was like, oh, I might have a go at that.

4:48And I was making notes on my phone and I looked at it and I kind of looked into Gay Hendrix's work. And I thought I sort of played with it myself and found it really, really helpful. It told me, it just made me think differently about how I was spending my time and whether I was having the most impact I could with my abilities. That was kind of my reflection. And also, it's a really nice blend of like kind of putting things down on paper or on a post-it and using a bit of AI. So I've kind of done, I've combined both in the episode. So plan is, there are actually four zones that we're going to talk about.

5:22um zone of genius is the one we want to aim for but there are three other zones in which you may be spending some time so i'm going to talk about what they are and sarah and i are going to share some thoughts on what we do that is in each zone and then i'm going to say how do you turn that reflection into something that's really useful and you can kind of do something with ready to go Okay, so we are going to start with the zone of competence. So this is where you can do something. And actually, you kind of maybe enjoy doing it. You're kind of competent and you enjoy doing it. But maybe there are other people that you work with that are definitely better at this than you.

6:06So maybe you're doing it because you always have, which is part of your job. But you know there are people in the team now that you work in that are better. So, for example, for me in here, I said, well, something that I enjoy and I'm OK at. I quite like sort of processes or a bit of a structure for how we build the business or how we organise the team. And I quite like those things. But I recognise that there are people in a team that are just much better at. Like if I look at something like Microsoft Teams, a really good example here. like I like it because it's got all these you know it's got notes in there and it's got loops in there and it's got there's different ways you could do it but I know that there's people in our team that just they just optimize it way more they've built structures for how that stuff works that is just way in advance of how I'm using it and so that's kind of something that I put in there probably sort of process organization some of those things would go in my kind of zone of competence I quite enjoy doing it but I'm definitely not the best person at it what would you have in there do you have to enjoy it for it to be in your zone of competence or can it just be in your zone of competence well Gay Hendricks um the person that has kind of created these zones would say that it's something that you do enjoy doing but I would just say if we want to make it a bit easier it's something that you spend time on at work today that you recognize that there are people you can do it much better than you that okay so for me probably like social media okay that's what's more that's why the enjoyment question well I suppose can I write a LinkedIn post sometimes you send me messages you sent me one this week and I think you were like oh I've had some really good response on there so you did enjoy you know you put that yes I did quite enjoy that one yes I did enjoy that one um to finish Helen's sentence there I did put a post up I was doing a panel on hiring on recruitment which is not my area of expertise I was sort of bringing squiggly career community perspective and also more once you've got into a company like how to learn and grow and why people might leave if they're not learning and growing so I put something on LinkedIn and sort of asking people for their experiences so I could try and represent people I suppose like accurately and usefully and just so many people came back to me so actually I did enjoy that um so yeah I suppose like posting on LinkedIn photos for Instagram just photos generally you know like I I think I rationally know why some of those things are important for like for our company yes and for the work that we do and I can do them and sometimes I enjoy them but I think I'm very very far away from being the best person to do them um what was that photo I think it was like your other half that I think made this even more of an elaborate process it's like a really nice photo of you oh it's a Sunday Times bestseller and Sarah was like I had to take that photo how many times did it well put Tom in charge of it because he was it was us holding the newspaper being like we got to number one and um I just wanted to take a quick photograph and it was a Sunday so you know when you're like just can you take the photo um but he's actually really good he's good at photography he takes really good photos and so I was like oh I should I don't but I tried to selfie and I couldn't do it so I did have to ask him and then he like wasn't happy with the first like three versions and then there was like new ways of taking this photo happening.

9:29And by the end of it, I was like, I should have tried hard on the selfie. That took so long. But people, lots of people did comment on that photo. It's a fairly good photo. Perhaps it is in Tom's zone of excellence, which is the zone we're coming to, but I don't want to skip ahead. Okay, so, and I'll show, this is kind of what we're working up. So I'm going to show everybody the kind of four zones once we've gone through them all. So the first is a zone of competence. And you're just going to write down, if you're doing this yourself, just write down like, what do I do today that's kind of in that zone?

9:55So Sarah would write social media. I'd write like process organization like Microsoft Teams type stuff and the next one is your zone of incompetence might be the uncomfortable zone but this is stuff that you are spending time on in your job where you know you're not very good at it and you also don't enjoy it and who knows how much time you've got in here we'll kind of get on to that point but for me for example I put in here things that I don't think I'm very good at and I don't really enjoy doing but like business admin so running our company i was i was actually listening i was funny enough i was actually listening to evergreen this morning while i was getting ready i still haven't finished the book and she was talking about like like where the founders should be ceos and i was like interesting to reflect on given what you kind of enjoy doing yeah um and i but partly this is because somebody who's very good in our team is currently on return to leave and i'm filling a few of those gaps that's probably more what this is about at the moment um because there are some routine tasks that I'm doing that I both don't think I'm the best person at because they've got quite a high level of detail.

11:02Payroll will be one of those. That's quite important. And it requires a lot of attention to detail. Well, listen to this. How reassuring do you feel right now? I mean, I work really hard on it, but it does not come easy to me because I have to like remember to do it on a certain date and check all the numbers. I walked in on you doing it yesterday because we were in two meeting rooms side by side and you were like, I'm doing payroll. So I just walk back out the room again. I did note that you were like, I respect that you're doing this and I'm out. do you want a coffee so sweet so that goes in my zone of incompetence sorry everybody business admin and also this is a funny one i put like passive meetings i'm like just not good at pass i just love how angry you get oh my gosh but i find it really funny to see you in them so it's worth it every so often just to watch your face what did i do well you just look really frustrated and then usually whatever you say is just really aggressive i'm quite snappy and i'm I love a bit of snappy hair.

11:52I just find it really funny. So mean. Yeah, well, I just, I don't enjoy them because I'm like, I could totally be spending my time in a better way. And I also don't think I'm very good at them because I'm literally adding no value. So yeah, any passive meetings are just like, I hate it. Like, I don't say hate that often at work, but I hate a passive meeting. What would fit in your zone of incompetence, do you think? I try not to do too much in this area. And I do think it is, when I was reflecting on this and we were pairing, I think my zone of incompetence was much bigger before I ran my own company.

12:26Yeah. I think when you are in a position to define more of what you do, hopefully this zone gets smaller. And maybe not for everyone. I don't know. That's just been my experience. I think my zone of incompetence is anytime I'm involved in anything where you're trying to make something existing better. Because if you're trying to make something more efficient, so like sometimes when we work on things together, with our team and we'll be like right and we're doing a bit of this at the moment like how to make this how to make this process more efficient or how to make these ways of working more efficient and I want it to be more efficient and sometimes I have to be involved in those things because they're really fundamental to like our company and how we work but I just think oh like one I ask questions that are not helpful you get a bit mad at me sometimes like so i'll ask like you know like bigger questions are not helpful in that moment but i find that really hard i find it hard to turn that part of my brain off yeah which you do sometimes have to do because you're like yes but we need to make this 10 more efficient so i'm like okay then like i don't think i'm naturally that good at making things more efficient i think there are just like other people who are loads better but sometimes you you know as like the two founders of our company is ultimately like sometimes our accountability to make things better make things that already exist better podcast I'm not the right person to make the podcast process better but we both have to do that right like we we've changed how we do the podcast because people annoyingly started watching it it's outrageous for everyone watching hi thanks for watching thanks for watching thanks guys um and so yeah like that's a good example right we need and we need to be efficient with that because if we're not efficient with how we design the process behind the podcast which is very different to the research and talking about the content and things and you can't do that without me because you're like we have to sort of do that together we're in it together we're in it together and I would say I'm not very competent at it and then it ends up getting I think sometimes I just make things more messy and more complicated and you're like trying to do the exact top like opposite of that are you looking for me to deny that just just to check okay no well I know I think I think anything that is about efficiency like where that is the thing I think you just you're just you're far more driven by quality and integrity and meaning and so when when it's like we've got to get it done on this day in this way this morning what we should start an hour later because if we start an hour later it will just give us more time this morning to like connect to like reflect on what we're going to talk about and then I thought if I suggest that to Helen now she will get really mad because we have got a lot of podcasts to record i would have just taken a deep breath and said okay let's just work through the impacts of that and then we can consider on the day right like even i have got enough judgment to go yes but that's in 45 minutes time in 45 minutes time we are meant to be starting and then i go ah it's like the opposite of being efficient right it's like i don't know it's being effective but i don't mind that the thing that i find hard I definitely did S-H this morning.

15:39It's more when you go, I just don't think we should do it. It's more, you know, like, I don't think we should do it differently. I'll be like, okay, let's just talk about that and the impact of that right now. But it's that sometimes when you're in that zone, like, you're... Yeah, if something is very... I think if something is very, very... I don't actually like things being inefficient. Yeah. So if something is very, very inefficient, I then get to the point of going, let's just opt out. Yeah. Which I don't think I do as much anymore. I agree. I haven't done that for a while. I agree. I agree.

16:06It's been a while since I am. Well, we might come up to how much time is spent in this box. Okay, so that's the two. You've got Zone of Competence, Zone of Incompetence. These are the nicer ones now. Yeah, I was going to say, like, these two are, like, not that fun. Not great stuff. I mean, if you're spending more than 50 % of your time here, I would say that's quite a big issue for your impact. So we're going to move on to the ones where there's definitely more positive impact happening, and there's a lot more potential in these ones. So Zone of Excellence, which I think sounds good. like who doesn't want to be excellent when you like read gay hendrick stuff here this is stuff that you like you are good at this i think this is this is like the territory of good this is what people come to you for this stuff because you can do lots of it and you've probably got quite a lot of things that you are good at but the issue with this box is you might not enjoy all of it like you're definitely good at it some of you some of it might be good because you've done it in your job for quite a long time um some of it might be you might be good because you know you've got particular particular talents in this area but you it's not necessarily what you want to be known for that's okay that's i think the difference not the spiky super strength yeah people probably come to you for this and they associate you with the abilities like to be able to do excellent at right you think yeah but this is not what i want you to know me for which is where we get to genius which we're coming to so I was looking at zone of excellence and I was thinking okay what am I what am I good at that people kind of come to me for and I had got um like editing was the wrong word I put improving I think a lot of people will come to me with something that is like 60 % there and be like okay can you can you basically improve this because I'm quite fast I think my zone of excellence, I'm quite a fast thinker.

17:57And so people take that ability and they apply it to critiquing, reviewing, improving. But I don't know if I was, I don't want to be known. I don't really want to be known as a fast thinker. I definitely don't want to be known as an incremental improver. And I think people come to me having done some of the, I'm like, no, I want to do the creating. Like I like the creating. I don't want to just improve what you've created. It's just I don't find that as satisfying. I can absolutely do it, but I just don't find it as meaningful. So I had a couple of things in there, but that was probably one of the things that I was like, that's probably a trap for me because I'm good at it.

18:32People come to me for it, but it's not really what I want to be known for in my work. What would you have in the zone of excellence? You're really good at it. People come to you for it, but you don't want to be known for it. Like branding and copy editing. Okay. Like writing, but in like a deck. Not writing as in books, because I do really enjoy that. um but as in we're creating a proposal we're writing something um and almost a bit like you're editing one actually it's like oh can you make this shorter so funny because you're so good at branding but you don't want to be known for it no that's so because you are so good at it that's actually a really good example of I just want it to be good I just want brand I care I care about it but you don't need to be the person no that's so interesting because I spent my career until amazing if not being that person yeah so there were always people better than me in the companies you're the best person in our business at it yeah but I just think but not compared to you know like I've worked with people who are like absolute branding superstars yeah um and who probably taught me right so that's how I learned what I know about branding and how I know what to look for but I think I know like if I if they saw something they would be like oh yeah you know she's like pretty good but they're great at it yeah um but it's just sort of happened that probably in our company I've ended up being that person writing briefs that's another thing you're very very good at you probably don't want to be known for but you are yeah your risk here I think is if you are the best person in the business or the team at something but you don't want to be known for that thing that is probably that's probably your risk area in here okay so let's go on to the last one this is your zone of genius excellent this is this is like uniquely you you are good Well, actually, you're great at this thing.

20:17It adds value. You enjoy doing it. You want to be known for it. Like this is like the diamond in your day. It's that kind of stuff. What do you think is, what is the diamond in your day? Well, we both have this. I think we do it in different ways. So, you know, you can have the same thing, right? And it can show up differently, but presenting. Yeah. And it's a good job because that's what we spend a lot of our time doing. um but you know whether that is like standing on stages delivering big virtual workshops like ruining sprints even to an extent like you're presenting on a podcast right it's like it's much more conversational but I do think I can be uniquely useful on a stage talking about squiggly careers or learning like a lobster in our style in the way that we draw on stage and never use slides in the way that we engage people in a conversation I think it makes both of us uniquely useful yeah can i add some things to your diamonds are you going to tell me my own one yes i am i am going to tell you i think you are amazing at coming up with ideas that other people that go beyond the obvious you know like i'm so some people have like incremental ideas or we could make this better by but you're like oh no i've gone to like a whole different i've gone to a whole different area like your ideas leapfrog into other other areas which is fantastic also that you're a very good conceptual thinker.

21:39You know, like you can hold all these different ideas. You're like, you're like a, you know, like those chefs, those molecular gastronomy. You're like that with like careers and ideas. You're like mixing some random things and coming up with like something that people have never seen before. Like you're very, very good at whatever the equivalent of molecular gastronomy is for careers and ideas. Yeah, I do think my, I'm naturally curious. um again I think there are people who are more curious than me but I think my the way that my brain works does mean that I can kind of connect that curiosity I've got quirky brain yeah yeah I mean I'm very grateful for it because it means I can do what I do but I definitely I see people particularly people who are closest to me as in my partner that they are sort of slightly bemused by it you can see people trying to almost make sense of me and what makes me good and and struggling a little bit being like we sort of know that you are but we're struggling you know like some people you just it's so obvious what they're incredible at yeah um and it's so visible and it's so easy to name and to put your finger on like I've worked for some leaders where I'm like it's so clear to me why you are brilliant like what you're I can still tell you today having worked for them 10 years ago 15 years ago what their zone of genius was whereas I don't think that's quite the same that's the same with me but I've I've accepted that well I can communicate many things about Thank you.

23:05Talk to me about yours. Well, I had presenting as well. That's definitely one. Love doing it. Want to be known for it. Spend time doing it. Think I'm good at it and can get even better at it. I also had building relationships. Yeah, you are. I love doing it. You're a little magnet, aren't you, for people. I love it. I love it. Also, anyone I try to build a relationship with is like, yeah, even this week, I already know Helen. And I'm like, shocker. I'm like, I cannot build a relationship without them already knowing you. That is not true. But I do like. It does happen to me quite a lot. So I'm like, because you're so good at building relationships.

23:37I do like building relationships. I think I'm probably, I think you're very good at building deep relationships. I think I'm very good at building a lot of relationships quickly. Yeah. It's probably a slight differentiator. So the idea for this is, so you've got these four different zones. You want to, I would just spend a bit of time. You could do it in conversation with somebody like me and Sarah have, or you could just do it on your own. Lovely team exercise. Really like actually where I'm going with this. I think this is a brilliant team exercise overall. So the first thing is you want to go through it And you just write down what are all the things that I do today that are in each of these categories.

24:10And just like, you know, like presenting, just write them down on a piece of paper. And then this is where it gets really, really insightful because that's kind of interesting. But where it becomes insightful is then you go and look at your diary. So I did this over the last month and I went through my diary every day in the diary. And every activity that was in my diary, I put a tick in one of these zones. I did see lots of ticks on a bit of paper earlier. Yeah. It's very intense. If you're listening, there are lots of ticks on a bit of paper. If you're watching, I'll kind of hold it up. So these are all the things.

24:42These are all the zones. These are all my ticks. So I just went through every activity and I was like, okay, I was presenting. I was presenting again. I was doing business admin. I was doing some process stuff. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And then at the end of it, I took a photo. This is so fun. I might even say what's on my phone. I took a photo. I uploaded the photo to ChatGPT. and then I said I asked it to analyse how much time was I spending in the different zones okay like percentage yeah to take up basically count all of the ticks and tell me like how many ticks are in each zone um and then what percentage of time am I spending in each of them and this was so helpful this this was a way quicker way of getting to insight than I could have I mean I would have to count the ticks or like whatever it was so good and it said like approximate counts and it was able to also read my writing, which is impressive.

25:33And then it had your spending. It said, I've got 41 % of my time in my zone of genius and I've got 32 % of time in my zone of excellence, which means that I'm spending over 70 % of time on things that I'm good and great at. That's got to be pretty good, right? Yeah, I mean, that is not reflective of the jobs. Yeah, same for me. Sarah and I have recently recorded the bullshit jobs episode, which is an example. Refer to that for the opposite to this conversation. which is the example when that was not true. And I'm spending, this is quite interesting, I'm spending 22%. It says there's still a meaningful chunk of your time that you're spending in incompetence.

26:0822 % of my time. And it's likely to be admin and low value drag. And so it did make me kind of... I think you do do that. Yeah. Low value drag. 22%. Like I think I see, and I'm always like, oh, it's such a waste. Yeah. I like that. And some of it is because you have to at the moment. Yeah. Because, you know, small company, sometimes you have to fill in for you know people not being around but I do think there are also other things where even when that person comes back from maternity leave which you're very kindly covering for some of those things at the moment I still sometimes hear you you'll like tell me in passing yeah I'm doing this and I'll think why is Helen doing that you know like if even if you just think about and you didn't talk loads about your own genius but I'm like right Helen creates clarity like no one I've ever met you know like and I'm including all those brilliant leaders I've worked with and for but I'm like you do have this ability to to create clarity and I think that's such I think that's so valuable I think that's valuable for the people who learn with us I think that's valuable for our team I think that's valuable for like how we grow and I go oh but if I could take that 22 % or 22 % imagine if you applied even half of that 22 % to creating more clarity like you know that the impact that that could have also the enjoyment from your perspective But I think, you know, because you start to put in data, and we talk about this in Learn Like a Lobster, data for your development.

27:28Yeah, nice. This is data for your, and because we've got ticks and numbers and percentages. And so you start going, okay, well, what would it take for me to halve that? Yeah, could you get that number down to 11? And I'll put that 10 % and then I could talk to you about, well, what do we want to put that 10 % on? Yeah. And so this is what I'm saying about, I think this becomes a really useful conversation. I want to have this with the team. I'm not going to force the team to do it, but if any of our team are listening and watching and they want to do the Zone of Genius exercise with me, I think this is a really good way of taking people's work, turning it into data for their development and doing something that's going to make a positive difference.

28:03It's like, it's a lovely link with strengths, right? You know, back to one of the original squiggly career, five skills. I think when you, the more you think about strengths, the more I'm always like, that's how people enjoy their jobs. You know, day to day, it's where you get satisfaction from is putting your strengths into action. And I think typically I believe in sort of the flow inside of, you know, stretching your strengths. It's like when you've got a bit of challenge. So there's no point in you creating clarity just in the ways that you've done it before. It's when you have to create clarity on something that's particularly complex, where there's lots of different factors.

28:41I'm like, that's where Helen will add a lot of value, like learn and grow herself and probably also enjoy that. She'll feel really satisfied at the end of her working day. If she's spending that time on business admin. Passive meetings. That actually only got one. You need to come to some passive meetings. I only got one chick. Yeah, I have to say you don't do many. I feel like you know, like, A, not to go to those. Also, we don't do many. No, no. I can't think of many meetings I see. It wasn't our meeting. No, yeah. But I just, every so often I'd like to see you in one because it is really funny.

29:13Just to bring a bit of joy to your day. We might have one. No, maybe not. I'm not going to look forward to it. You might. I was like, oh, I think we might have one on Monday. But I was like, no, actually, no, you will have something to say in that meeting. So what we'll do, because I do think there is a bit of a process here. I think, you know, there's like steps to this. I think you have to kind of go through the zones and write down the work. And then I think you have to look at your diary, collect your ticks. Could you question as you were describing it? Because I was like, if anyone could build this, it would probably be Helen.

29:37I was like, could you, could it do it for you? You know, the tick thing that you have to do. Because I was like, oh, that sounds a bit annoying. Having to go back over my diary for a month and tick stuff. Could you build an agent to do it as you go? You know, if you were good enough at, you know, now people are really into colour coding their diaries. I think I might start trying a bit more off. I've heard so many people say it. You know, so if you, and most of the stuff that we do is in our diary because it just is. And even like time blocking for doing work tends to be in our diaries. I was like, could you do it live so that your agent was tracking as you go and giving you live data at the end of every month so that you didn't have to do the ticks?

30:19It was just there. Do you think that would work? You could if you colour coded your meetings. Because then it would use that to be like. The only flag with that. Can you imagine if I had an internal meeting? I was like, passive meetings are pink. Oh, yeah. I don't know if you always want other people to see. I don't know. You maybe could. There must be a way, though. I didn't mind doing the tics. I actually quite liked. And then I liked, I don't know, I quite liked the exercise. And then I quite looked at my tics. But that's just me. I did this on the train this morning and I found it quite a job.

30:47The man next to me, my train's quite busy. And I was there with my post-it notes. Ticking away. He must have been like, what is this? I do always quite like looking like we both get the train into London. And you know, when people are working, you know, having like a sneaky glance, like what people are working on, which is also why you should never do it, never do anything confidential on the train. Yeah. Because basically I'm always like, oh, you know, and it's always, it's always slides. Everyone's always doing PowerPoint slides and I always feel sorry for people. I often sometimes on the train, I have to, my train's so crammed in the morning and I'm like, because we live draw and I'm always kind of preparing for things.

31:23and sometimes I sit on the floor and I'm live drawing and I think people must just think what just what people always look at me if I'm drawing you know because sometimes I'll be preparing something and you just see people like looking across and then being like oh and really wanting to kind of ask you know because everyone always wants to know what app we're using paper by WeTransfer just in case that's helpful the amount of time after probably like the post-it note link we also do the paper link a lot yeah and also I don't ever see anyone else doing that I'm always like what do you know I am seeing more of on commutes which makes me really happy I think the book is making a comeback I think the book is making a comeback too yes I agree I like looking around a train and I see a lot more people being like no I'm going to put the phone away I'm going to get the book out I saw I think it was we both know Nikki Nikki Kemp I think she must have done it in the new year where she was like that's one of her new year's resolutions you know like habit stacking you get on a train you take a book out and I find that I have started to do that a bit more always have a book in your bag because sometimes it just makes you sometimes I want to have my phone because I'm listening to a podcast or I like to start out the window for a bit it's probably a nice social media bit of content in that which you wouldn't like because it's not in your zone of genius but like what book have you got in your bag it's probably quite a nice way of like somebody like I can imagine some content creator doing that you know like going down a train it could be you I mean obviously not me, not actually me having to do this but being like is that in your zone of genius that feels like more like a Simon Squibb thing you know if someone gets off the train open your bag, what book's in your bag I mean, someone take that idea.

32:53I would like that content. Yeah, it would actually. I would always be interested because I want book recommendations. I just don't want to have to ask people. I also quite like looking at people's bags. Yeah, there you go. This is a double win. Anyway, we'll put... I think this is useful. Good, me too. I really liked it. So we're going to put that process on the pod sheet so that you can work your way through it. Pod sheets are always on our website. So amazingif.com. There's a podcast like page that you can navigate to and then you'll find it there. And if you ever can't find anything, just email us, helenandsarah at squigglycareers.com.

33:21But that's everything for this week. Thank you so much for listening. Back to you again soon. Bye for now.