#577 How to solve tame, critical and wicked work problems

0:00Hi everybody, it's Helen from the Squiggly Careers podcast and before today's episode starts I wanted to let you know about something that Sarah and I have created for the summer. We are going to be launching a series all about a career well spent. We're going to release four episodes, one every Tuesday and it's going to be us in conversation with an expert who can give us a different perspective on what it means to have a career well spent. we'll talk about longevity we'll talk about relationships we'll talk about time we'll talk about making a difference we wanted this to be a community learning moment too so on Thursdays we're going to have a LinkedIn live where you can bring your questions you can bring your reflections and we'll discuss the episodes together as a community all the links you need are going to be in the squiggly careers newsletter so if this sounds like something you want to get involved in and we really, really hope you do.

0:53It's all free and it'll be a great learning moment. Then all you need to do is sign up for the newsletter. Just go to squigglynewsletter.com. That's squigglynewsletter.com and we will send you everything you need to know to get involved. But for now, let's get on with today's episode. Aim needs the right process. Critical needs the right response. Wicked needs the right mindset. What we're going to do is talk about the three types of problems from Keith Grint's work, where I talk about what they are, how you can spot them, like what they might sound like if you've got one of these problems, and probably most importantly, what you do to solve them.

1:31You know, when you're trying to think like, well, why would I spend time figuring out what type of problem this is? It's like, well, almost if you haven't figured out the type of problem, you might try and solve it in the wrong way, and you sort of waste time and energy. What is good about all of these different types of problems, I know that this is a really learnable skill, because I learnt the critical problem solving skill. Problem solving, for example, is a no regret skill. It doesn't really matter what is going to happen in the world. Invest in that skill, you're going to have no regrets.

2:06Hi, I'm Sarah. And I'm Helen. And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we borrow some brilliance from a person, a place, an object, even a word when I get my way. and we turn that curiosity into useful action for you and your squiggly career and this is one of our episodes in partnership with post-it note which we always find exciting but I think we used them loads before and now we just use them even more I feel like it's just given us an excuse and also I mean I've got to bite too I was in the car with Gareth my husband the other day she's like do you remember when you just just like going into stationery shops all the time staples yeah I'll be particular and I just used to buy loads of post-it notes but I feel like maybe I pause and I just I started to use the same post-it notes but now this has given me a new lease of life oh my gosh a new lease of life I mean you're my favorite like genuinely my new favorite post-it note the transparent ones no oh I love those I do too but which I didn't have before this partnership the dispenser oh the little dispenser I absolutely love the dispenser it's got little tabs like with the little tabs and you just pull out the post-it note from it oh you're talking so I was talking about you're probably meant to do this more professionally in this right the we're doing it's very genuine i was talking about the small dispenser where it dispenses like the books tabs that you would put in books to be like oh i need to go back to that page you're talking about the big dispense i'm talking about i should i've probably got yours that's probably why i'm gonna get one now no no like so normal post-it notes and they're like zed post-it notes so you pull one out and then your next one's there so you can just like honestly i sit there they brings me a lot of joy anyway more practically we are going to talk about how post-it notes can be useful for the topic we're talking about today.

3:46So Sarah mentioned that sometimes she gets her way to talk about words like oracy, which was last week's podcast, which was, I really enjoyed talking about it. And sometimes I get my way where we get to talk about problem solving. Yeah. And it's so made for post-it notes as well. It is so made for post-it notes, but also I do love anything that has that, I don't know, problem solving is just so practical, but it isn't just a selfish thing. I do think this is a really important skill because when you when you look at a lot of the work that's coming out about ai and what skills we need to invest in problem solving comes up a lot i was actually at a presentation earlier today where someone from skills england um was saying he gets asked all the time like what are the skills that i need to invest in and he says like i'm not i've not got a crystal ball i've got some data he was um he works in economics like i've got some data yeah But he talks about them as no regret skills.

4:38That's nice for Amy. I really liked it too. I mean, that's a podcast in itself. No regret skills. Yeah. And he said like problem solving, for example, is a no regret skill. It doesn't really matter what is going to happen in the world. Problem solving is always. So invest in that skill. You're going to have no regrets. So we did cover this. We covered problem solving more broadly in our sprint. So I will link to that episode because it's a really short one that's a bit more broad on problem solving. But we are going to borrow brilliance today from somebody called Keith Grint, who has got a particular perspective on problem solving.

5:14It's a lot of alliteration. A lot of alliteration, and it wasn't even planned. I always want to say it again, but I'd screw it up. Anyway, Keith Grint. He talks about something called wicked problems and a couple of other types of problems. And so what we're going to do is talk about the three types of problems from Keith Grint's work. when I talk about what they are, how you can spot them, like what they might sound like if you've got one of these problems and probably most importantly, what you do to solve them. And just to zoom out momentarily, only for like one minute. I did, when I was researching this because Helen recommended a video from Keith, which I watched and found very useful.

5:53There was also another link I'll put in there to, you know, one of those sort of scribed description videos, which I found really helpful. to I was you know getting up to speed and then I found a lovely quote which is a problem well stated is a problem half solved so you know when you're trying to think like well why why would I spend time like figuring out what type of problem this is it's like well almost if you haven't figured out the type of problem you might try and solve it in the wrong way and you sort of waste time and energy um and that quote comes from Charles Franklin Kettering also associated with quite a few other people so that was one of the people that the quote got attributed to but I was like let's not get caught up in that.

6:31It's a really important insight I think it's a really good starting point for what we're going to talk about which is the fact that not all problems are the same and therefore the way that you solve them will be different but if you don't have a if you don't have like a criteria if you don't have a way of diagnosing what problem it is then it's hard it's harder from the outset so let's do the what type of problem it is. Okay so problem number one tame problems. Right. I like the idea of this sounds easy certainly easier and actually the definition is here, a tame problem is easy to spot and relatively easy to solve.

7:04The problems are pretty well defined. There's a clear solution and you can probably get to the solution by following a known process or a version of a process that already exists. So an example would be a broken link on our website. And I was like, that's a real example for you there. And it probably sounds like, oh, we understand the problem. We just need to decide on the best solution or the best way to fix it fast you know that's what i can imagine you know i can imagine saying that to our team i've spotted this link's broken um you know like figure out the best way to fix it like let's just let's just get it sorted it's just a facts a fast fix you don't need to chat about it load you probably just need you know you just need to figure out how to solve it i was just thinking then like because you might be like what's the point if it's a tame problem why waste any time why waste any time solving it but i think that if you don't solve tame problems then they can become bigger ones over time because if you've got absolutely loads you've got loads you've got 20 broken links on your website yes and no one's coming to your website yeah it's going to get really really annoying and also i think that it it becomes frustrating for people when the problem keeps coming up it's like the recurring red flag thing that we sometimes talk about because i think there are tame problems like fixing a broken link on a website where if it's one-off it it doesn't get that frustrating and it's not a recurring red flag and you're like fine but like you and i would definitely have things that we could name in our company where we're like yeah that's still a problem still a problem and it's only a tame problem but nobody sorted it yeah we've not sorted it no one else has sorted it they're really annoying they are really annoying i don't like a tame problem i think they're like gnats you know like a little gnat yeah like you're thinking it's not irritating really irritating it's not gonna like ruin your day but it's just and there's loads of them loads of them yeah i don't i don't like the old 10 problems let's move on from those let's move on so we're going to critical problems i mean i'm really sure i like these ones either but um the critical problems these are problems that need solving now um this is a problem that you might not have predicted or preempted um they but when they happen they are urgent yeah um and they are high stakes and you need to get the right people around this thing really fast.

9:18Troubleshooting vibes. Yeah, I think you'll know it because people go, we need to sort this right now. Okay, yeah. Has that been sorted yet? Yes. Where are we with that problem? Like versions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That actually just sounds like me. It does sound exactly like you. We'll come on to our own preferences for these problems in a moment. But an example of this, I think I had one today. I had one today. Oh, you did, didn't you? Are you going to share this one? Go on. Oh, gosh. Okay, my critical problem today. Oh, this is really embarrassing. Okay. So I was doing a presentation today. It was an important presentation.

9:49Sarah and I present on our iPads because we live draw everything. So we have this thing where we say we don't use slides because we don't use slides. We've run this business since 2013 and we've never used slides. Until? Until I was on the way to the event where I was presenting today and looked in my handbag so I could just prep and make sure. I'd prepped last night. I know. I should feel gutted for you for that. I prepped quite late. I prepped so it was in my head and I was excited about it. I thought, I'll get my iPad out and I'll just kind of have a little look. So I'm ready. I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh.

10:22I mean, I could show people what that message is. There's mad panic. And it was really, it was really interesting because my, so basically I had to create a presentation. I had to get over the fact. Is that the first time? I don't think I've ever, I've never used a slide. Your first number slide. It was high stakes. It was urgent. I was literally 10 minutes away from the location. It was high stakes. I was thinking, what have we got that she could just put up? Yeah. And, you know, decisive action to pressure because you were messaging me and you were like, how can people help? And I basically just thought I'm muting you because I was just I need to fix this fast.

10:54And there is a limited amount of time and this needs to get done. It's that, it's that, you know, you can feel them and you can hear it, I think, when there's a critical problem. And a third. The third is these wicked problems, which does still make me think of the musical. I always do get slightly distracted by the musical, but still. So these are problems that are complex, ambiguous, interconnected. There's no single right answer. And almost there probably isn't an answer. And so even when you're trying to make progress on that problem, you might discover new problems or there might be new questions.

11:29So these are sort of really dynamic, ever changing problems that will feel hard. Right. I think like these are hard problems, maybe hard and important. and so this might sound like well there's no easy answers to this problem which i like i've heard people say in organ like there's just not there's not an easy answer to this um so these are going to be quite big things that are likely to involve more than one team so this might be like an organization saying how do we create psychological safety in our company like or even like now how are we going to respond to ai yeah like ai would be the wicked problem that everybody's talking about in the board right of the world yeah and actually some of the examples in the um drawing videos that i watched um they were talking about like climate change yeah is like a wicked problem or poverty so if you like really zooming out i think that you've got weak i do think you can zoom in to a wicked problem in a team yeah we've got wicked squiggly problems right it's no it doesn't have to be so big but it's that idea that they are messy unsolvable also i think some people enjoy them and some but the majority of people don't because of the ambiguity and these are hard to solve like yeah you know it's cool you know we talked about uncertainty recently i was like oh you have to have quite a high tolerance for uncertainty to spend time with wicked problems i think um so reflecting on our squiggly world what which sort of problems do you think we experience the most which ones do you think you're best at i think we have one or two wicked problems yeah um that have been around for a while yeah to be honest well the point is that's that's because they're wicked right that's like that's okay i do wonder whether we could manage that that we could maybe some of what we're going to talk about you might make more progress on i think we probably go we sort of almost accept it's a wicked problem yeah we probably don't maybe no but on yeah we don't i don't think we're managing the wicked problem i think you know occasionally we do have the critical ones yeah i don't think we are defined as a company who has loads of critical problems we're not that kind of industry no in terms of our what we the services that we do and then we've got quite a lot of team i think we do probably because we've not got loads of operators like look you know i don't know i feel like we've just got loads of little gnats i don't think we if we had like a tame problem inventory or something like that or we like tried to solve like 10 tame problems a month or something but we don't want an interesting insight on this yes so we record our mistake moments as a team and we record them all in the same place and i was doing something different the other day um so i used ai to analyze all of our mistake moments um and like basically what do you notice what the trends and themes yeah and it's a lot of it is about tame problems because what it said you know when the ai is quite confronting it was like the answers to most of your mistake moments always seem to be a checklist oh so the word checklist comes up at like loads and that's because the sort of you know because if you're solving a tame problem tame problems about things like processes and i was like oh that's really interesting like almost our mistake moments reveal we have these tame problems which we're probably maybe not getting as better at yeah solving we're not as good at solving as we could be given we have quite a lot of them whereas i've been in teams before that have loads of critical problems yes yeah so it's very different different vibe yeah very different vibe and and just to kind of pull in the post-it notes i think this is a really like with a team i think this could be a really good activity where like you kind of I would I mean I would because I like the different colors but what I would do you're picking up different colors as we speak what are you going for okay green pink and yellow yeah it doesn't really matter what color they are but I do think different colors help so you basically get everybody to begin with writing down like what's a tame problem like so I might be like oh broken links or yeah the newsletter's got I don't know the wrong url on it or something or whatever and everyone does it and then you kind of stick them all up on the wall and then different color so let's say everyone's got pink then they're writing okay what are some of the critical problems and you might i think for that one you might want to do what's the critical problems that we've had over the last six months or something yeah um just so people kind of get a sense of is there a theme of these critical problems and then you do the wicked problems um and then i think if you stick them all up then you could where people have done some of the same ones i put them like on top of each other but i think you can then step back and be like what does this look like for us what does this mean for our overall problem solving context yeah what what what do we make of this i think you can get some insights that i don't think you could do unless you kind of pulled you kind of pulled it even like our conversation just then i was like yeah i'd probably not really reflected on having quite a lot of tame problems before today but actually as soon as you talk about it you go yeah it's the same wicked problems and we've had them for a long time you're like why is that why do we want to sit with these yeah should we try and solve well we're not going to solve our actual problems what we are going to talk about is the fact that you solve different types of problems in different ways yeah and that if you sort of solve the problem in the wrong way then you probably don't make the progress so tame problems this is probably the one we should probably just listen to um need the right process so this is all about processes so there are three things here one don't over complicate tame problems i think i do this i don't think i'm very good at tame problems generally that's probably well it's probably one of the reasons we've got cause well i would ask too many questions and i would try and understand and blah blah blah so it's like you shouldn't let me I think anywhere near attain problem was the conclusion I've come up with having spent some time so one don't over complicate assign it to one person who is best placed to solve that problem and set a clear deadline to solve by okay so that's like what I'm like okay then use anything that is existing to solve faster so as in if you've already got processes you know like don't you know like don't reinvent a process yeah don't start from scratch when you don't need to which we definitely do some of the time um and then the third one is don't let tame problems linger because that's when they grow and you made this point already into the bigger problems that becomes a hornet and that hurts yeah so you almost need to name them if they're recurring and we do sometimes say they're recurring red flags like but again i think our challenge is we will say this is a recurring red flag and we don't do anything and we're like yeah and and you sort of need i think some people are very good at tame problem solving because they're like they're efficient they're about the right process they kind of just get stuff done and so I think sometimes as well identifying like who in your team is really good at this who's good at sort of pro it's process and pace because you don't want to over complicate this and then almost get those people to be like can you look at that and sort it um and that person basically isn't me but they are hugely valuable oh yeah like all of the things that you and I get frustrated about.

18:11I think you actually are quite good at this when you need to be. But I don't want to do it. But you don't want to do it. It doesn't give you any energy. But I think there are other people who actually enjoy this and that's a really good thing. Critical? Critical. Okay, so this is the one that I think I am good at. Partly I think because I stay very calm. Yeah, you do. In a critical situation, I almost go like robotically calm, which is not one of the bits of advice that we've got. But there are some things that are useful here. So first of all, immediately stop, deprioritize everything that doesn't focus on fixing this fast.

18:43I think you might want to signal that to people so that people don't think what's going on with my work. I think you have to say, this has happened. I am working on this. I'll come back to that thing as soon as this is fixed. So signal it, but stop. The other thing that I think is very important is that you manage the noise at the same time as the problem. So critical problems are noisy because you've got the, is it fixed yet? well what does that mean what's happening can you give me an update yeah and if you don't find a way to manage the noise it gets in the way of you solving the critical problem so that could be you could say i'm going to send an email at the end of every day and to let you know what's happened with the with the problem where we're at with it what we're working on tomorrow i've actually been in teams talking about you and me working environments where there are way more of these problems where that updates come out every hour yeah when there's been things going wrong and it's just I think if you if you know it is a critical problem don't underestimate the importance of communication because one communication from you to lots of stakeholders is a lot easier than lots of stakeholders coming to you with questions yeah and it being scattered yeah no nightmare and then be really really clear on who needs to do what by when I think clarity and communication when you've got a critical problem is really important so just like have the names like these are the five people that are working on solving this, this is what they're doing, this is what their role, make sure everybody really knows what's going on there.

20:10And I think what is good about all of these different types of problems is I know that this is a really learnable skill because I learnt the critical problem solving skill. This is not me naturally. I don't like being responsive. I like being strategic and proactive. But I worked in a team that was all about critical response, though my job wasn't, but the overall team context was. and so initially when it was like drop everything I was like well no because you know like in my head I got other things and these other things were happening this is what my day looked like and I am a natural planner and so you have to be much more agile you have to be adaptable and initially I think it feels uncomfortable and it's just a new way of working I think some people are this is in their DNA just like it can be in your DNA to be really good at processes but I think with all of them like having experienced it I am so much better now at solving critical problems just because I learned to get better at it do I think I'm an absolute natural like no but almost from following these three these three I would know to do these three things yeah and I could do it and I wouldn't enjoy it that much but it's the right thing this is definitely the one tame I'm rubbish at but I can see how I can easily do that better with this critical I feel okay I think almost like you should diagnose if you're listening like think where do I need to work wicked the one we're going on to next this is the one where I'd like us to talk about this and share these ideas and apply them a bit more so tame needs the right process critical needs the right response wicked needs the right mindset okay and so first thing you've got to let go of solving wicked problems which is the bit I think you find hard I don't mind a wicked problem um I quite enjoy them because I think you will get new problems I think you've got to reframe the job to be done or what success looks like it's about exploring and progressing the problem not solving the problem I think if you start with solving today you could get quite demotivated or overwhelmed I think so that's that that's the mindset point there's a there's a lot here around listening which I really liked which is when you've got a wicked problem there's loads of dynamics and different people involved or um I don't know different processes involved listening helps you to learn about the problem from different people and perspectives so almost being more intentional and conscious about right part of solving this problem is listening like who do I need to listen to who have I not listened to yet who could I listen to who might tell me something that I don't already know you know that lovely quote like you learn by listening you know we all learn by listening you don't learn by saying what you already know and so there's a big emphasis on like to progress through a wicked problem like how are you listening so it's a really I think a really good question to ask yourself and then third when you then want to sort of start to move into action because otherwise by this point you'll be very frustrated um I think of what if what would what now so what if we only focused on one part of the problem what if we only had half the amount of budget so you're asking these kind of what if questions to start to generate options scenarios provoking the problem yeah they're like provocations what would get you to look at the problem in a new way what would taylor swift do which i think actually you and i've talked about this week you said someone gave you that example um what would ikea do and a brand that you know that you just think are really interesting so that just you've asked yourself your own provocations you've also thought differently by looking outside it in.

23:46And then you get to the what now. So now what are the actions we're going to take for now? Yeah, now for now. Now for now. And I think that just then means with wicked problems, the danger obviously is you could go around in circles. You know, like you hear that. I hear that from some companies. They're like, we have the same conversations. You and I have it. I think with some of our wicked problems, we perhaps have the same conversations. I think we both quite enjoy exploring, but then maybe sometimes we get a bit i think the what if what would what now for now might help us a bit circling circling endlessly it does not appeal but learning from listening yeah if we were like well we've still got the same wicked problem the wicked problem has not gone away yeah however this is what we've learned from listening yeah and we've gone through the what if what would what now for now what now for now i would feel that i was making progress yeah had i solved it no but had i made more progress than i would have been not doing those things yeah so that and that would mean i think progress on a problem i would be comfortable circling around a problem i just feel like what a waste what a waste what a waste what a waste that's exactly like how are you feeling do you think um because obviously we're borrowing brilliance right so do you this is Keith Grint's take on how to better solve problems what is your take on this do you think it's do you think it's better would you be better solving problems because of this yes because I think it prompts you to be situational in your approach so I think everybody is good at solving some sorts of problems and and you might be like oh that person's a really good problem solver and i think you could say that about me and you could say that about you and mean really different things um and so i think this helps you a bit more with like well what type i like the i actually like the categorization of like well what type of problem is this then also sometimes you know like right right people to solve that problem like are you and i the best people to solve some of the same problems no doesn't mean that you it's not an excuse though you can't say well i'm never going to solve those same problems but equally there are probably other people who'd be more energized and like better at it yeah um and also the I think probably because I've seen the critical problems but learning that skill has been really helpful for me in my squiggly career and so I'm really glad that I learned that skill and same with tame like I I still think that's a useful thing for me to learn so I think I really liked where we started when you said about um the no regret skills that's really that's really stuck with me and I feel like It's a no regret skill to actually get good enough at solving all the different types of problems.

26:31I'm like, actually, I want to get good enough at tame and critical. I think I am good enough at critical. I think I might need to work a bit on the old tame. And actually, I think I'm already pretty good at the wicked one, but you could probably get even better. And I enjoy those more. So it's helped me to be both more specific and also then think about, well, what will I now do differently? Because it's sort of specific and situational. So I initially, do you know what? It did take me a little while. I had to watch the video twice um I didn't get there straight away you know with like the difference between the two coming up with the examples so if you're like me and you have to watch the video twice like don't worry because initially you think oh this would be really easy but it just took me a moment to just work out the categorizations to come up with the examples but having spent a bit of time the more time I spent with it the more useful I found it yeah and I um just to build on that I think I got there much more quickly but just because I really like stuff like this but one of the things that i do like is i think giving it a name helps people to talk about things you know to your point about oh we're good at problem solving in different ways and until you had this categorization you wouldn't be able to draw that out i think in a team being able to say that's one of those tame problems and people kind of having a shortcut going oh that's how we solve those ones yeah and then this is a wicked one okay so we're not going to solve this but we we who could we listen from i think those like shortcuts when you give it a name I feel like names create frames for how people solve them.

27:56And if it's all just a problem, we don't kind of do that. So I do think it makes it easy for teams to talk about together. So we hope that's helped you, whatever type of problem you're trying to solve. That's everything for this week. We'll be back with you again soon. And bye for now. Bye, everybody.