End of Year Review: What Our Highs & Lows Taught Us In 2025

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1:22Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Hi, I'm Helen. And I'm Sarah. And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we borrow some brilliance and relate it to you in your role and in your career to give you some ideas, some insights, some things that you can take action with to invest in your development. And today is a bit of a special episode. I think this is one that we've done for the past few years it's it's where Sarah and I do a bit of a year in review and and we use some questions to support our reflections questions that we think are useful for everybody but to bring those questions to life we will we will talk them through we will do our year in review with you and our focus for this year review is going to be on high low learning so we've got several different questions we're going to share our answers so I think if you are a fan and a follower of squiggly careers you're probably going to get to hear some of the stuff behind the scenes behind the scenes the squiggly behind the scenes for better for worse yeah you're going to get the real thing but I think if you're not a fan don't worry there are several questions here that we would suggest that you either reflect for yourself on your year or ideally you do this with someone else you do it in a team you do it with a bit of a learning buddy and I think it kind of just creates a nicer learning environment if you can use these questions with other people but it's going to be chatty bit informal Sarah and I have not shared our answers with each other I've got a cup of tea Sarah's in a room where there's a really loud guy talking outside.

2:47So, you know, it's... And she's too scared to go and say, can you please talk quieter? I mean, you can't. You can't. You can't be like, I'm recording a podcast. I feel like you can't. We just... I know. Also, that makes you sound like such a diva. It doesn't it? You know, just like, you do realise I have a podcast. I'm recording a podcast. So it's going to be informal, everybody. And we will put these questions in the pod sheet, which you can get from our website, amazingif.com afterwards, if you want to use them to reflect yourself, use them with a team. but yeah I think this is grab a cup of tea sit and listen with us and hear some behind the scenes stuff from the world of swiggly careers and so the way that we frame today is high low learning so for every question that we've come up with we're kind of going to contrast something that's gone well that we might want to do again or kind of do more of and because we don't want to forget those it is important to think about like what what's been the good stuff and then also a low because I think they are funnier.

3:42When I was writing mine down, actually I was like laughing to myself. I can't wait to hear them. But I also think you learn as much from your lows as you do from your highs. I was reflecting, I don't think it means the lows go away because I think you just get new lows. But it has made me think a bit about actions and like what you might do differently, given those are your lows, like what do they have in common? What's helped you through those lows? I think that's probably the kind of theme that came up for me was like, when I looked at all my lows I was like there are a few common actions that really helped me through those hard moments um and I think being aware of those can just help you when you when you have those low moments so should I ask the first question Helen are you ready yes I'm ready ready okay so first high low learning so high what was your best day of the year low what was a day that you were really happy to leave behind okay my I can't wait to hear yours whether I'm excited So my best day of the year was you and me together in Dorset.

4:45Is it the same as you? In a village hall? In a village hall, yeah! Same one! Oh, we are as one. We are as one. Which actually is quite rare. We should probably explain that to everybody. So we tend to take a couple of days out in the middle of the year for whatever big project we're working on, which at the moment and for a lot of this year has been our new book, Like a Lobster. and we go somewhere different to our everyday because it just helps us with our thinking. So we were in Dorset and we couldn't find a meeting room because there aren't that many co-working spaces on the coast of Dorset.

5:18On the coast of Dorset. So Sarah had a bit of a brainwave, which was to look at village halls. And there was an amazing village hall in Sudland, I think. This huge space. And we took over. I mean, it cost us like£30 or something. I would say top tip AI found that space for me so I did use I was like oh I'm just going to use Claude obviously my favorite AI for people who've long long time listeners me and Claude my new best friend um I could at what point could Claude replace Helen I could just have this conversation with Claude um but Claude found that village hall and it was like what about using this village hall it costs like 25 pounds and I was like sure why not and it was just and I mean it was a like massive space wasn't it there's just the two of us with these yellow and there was so much it was brilliant it was brilliant I think it was also just exactly what we needed like we could move around it's got lots of natural light we could take breaks really easily um and I think the reason I picked it as well as my high was not just the day but I think we we made a real commitment to make sure that that day mattered beyond the day so we're often quite good when we're together what we are less good at is kind of what what comes next and I think that is our best ever uh we followed up on those actions we have made those ideas that we came up with on that day happen so the reason I actually chose it as the high was as much as I enjoyed that day and I did that's like I just if I could do that more often I definitely would I then found my notes the other week when I was like clearing some stuff out from that village hall day and I was like oh we've done that and we did that action and we made that happen and that works and that didn't but but those ideas mattered they've like made a difference so I think that was why it was my high it was kind of what came next I think mine both because it was enjoyable but also I think that is you and me at our best so Sarah will stand up it's a lot really weird we just have this way of doing it Sarah will stand up with post-it notes and the minute we have an idea Sarah will kind of put it down on paper and put it on a wall and it's really good because it's sort of low commitment, low perfection.

7:26And Sarah's very, very quick at generating the idea, putting it up. So you very, very quickly get this ability to see lots of ideas in one place. And then I am quite good. I will literally sit in a chair and I am very good at then like looking at all the ideas and kind of like making sense of them. I'm like, hang on a minute, that one over there is probably better with that. There's something that happens in my brain, but it can't happen unless I have a volume of stuff that I see and so there's I don't know there's just this fit between yours and my brains in that moment that works really well and I always and we don't do it that often just because of the you know the way that we're in our business and the demands on our time but I I just love it when it happens because that's where the good stuff that is where the best stuff comes in our business um and obviously you know my partner because we you and I have worked together for a long time and known each other for a long time and I've been with my partner for a long time And wasn't this the one time ever that he sent you a WhatsApp message?

8:21Yeah, he did. Yeah, Tom doesn't message me very often. I don't think he messages you that often. No. He sent me a message and something along the lines of, I think you might have broken Sarah because there was just this picture of like post-it notes and teacups and things like all over your house that I think you've been so immersed in your thinking for this day that your actual home life had taken a bit of a hit. I think Tom had taken a bit of a hit. Well, it was our bedroom. so our bedroom was covered with so I prepare for those days in a very different way to Helen um like if I don't have the time and space to reflect by myself first I I sort of can't do what we need to do when we're together and I actually don't need Helen to do that and she she doesn't need to do that she can just sort of turn up and be in the moment um but I really think things through and I like I like to connect dots in my own brain first but but the problem was that was in where we sleep and our whole wall and all of our mirrors were all ended like all covered in these massive yellow postage I didn't know but yeah he just sent a message to you being like it's I I think he said something like it's either the work of a genius or a psychopath and I was like at that point he was like I've lost it I've lost it what about a low a low that you would like to leave behind um I was thinking I went through my phone to sort of trigger me for the year you know to avoid like the whole recency bias thing yeah and then I I remember and I was like, oh, that was a bad day.

9:43So I went on a work trip to Lisbon. Well, it was with the EY Women Women. Do you remember? And I got a bug and it was on my first day. It was like a three-day work trip and I got a bug. And, you know, we don't need to go into that, do we? But I could not leave my room for 24 hours. And I'm not really very, I'm not ill very often. And I don't like sleep poorly. I felt so sorry for you. And I'd gone that way for that, you know, that's an annual event of three days for those women. It's such a brilliant event. I basically just stayed in my room in a really nice dress. I also really remember the dress because I'm always really conscious like I want to look nice at those events.

10:19And I'd got this really nice dress and I just lay in my bed for like 24 hours because I couldn't even get my nice dress off. Yeah, it was not a high moment. Yeah, it was pretty bleak. What about yours? Mine was, do you remember windy Wi-Fi time? Windy? Windy? Yeah. So when there was, so there were storms and it was really windy and that wind basically broke my internet. Do you not remember? Because you helped me get a hotel. How did you remember? I discovered a hotel near you. You were like, I didn't realize that hotel was there. Yeah. So I think it was just, you know, you just, it was really stressful because you didn't know it was coming.

10:59and our work really relies on like everybody's like having the internet but I think when we're doing workshops for big groups they're big moments that matter people have put a lot of effort into them if your internet breaks it's a pretty big deal and I just think the amount of adapting I then had to do in like 24 hours from um I ended up in one co-working space quite near quite near where I live but not that near where I don't think this guy I don't think he'd welcomed anyone to this office space in a long time and and also everyone there was male and then they were just like oh and I felt like they were just looking at me through this like glass door being like who is this species she's interesting and he knocked on the door in the middle of a session that I was delivering for Lego to ask me if I wanted a digestive biscuit that is very sweet I mean it's quite frustrating when you're trying to deliver a workshop but it's very yeah it's a And he was like, can I make you a cup of tea?

11:58And I was like, I'm literally delivering a workshop for hundreds of people. Please don't talk to me. And you know, he was so nice and so intrigued by me. So I did that for one of the windy Wi-Fi days. And then that night I was really panicking. And I was like, right, what can I do? And then, yeah, you and I were recently, I think you found a hotel. You were like, this hotel looks like it's quite near you. And then you booked it. And then I turned up and you told them. So what we'd done was you'd booked a hotel room for me. I then turned up the next day and they were like, oh, no, we've given it away.

12:33And I was like, but we put a note to say we're not going to be here until the next day. And I just stood my ground. I was like, you have to find me a meeting room then. And they were just sort of looking at me like, oh, but we've cancelled it now. I was like, yeah, I get that. But you must have somewhere that I can work. I will sit in your office. Well, yeah, I mean, I would have totally sat in their office if they'd have given me that. If they would have been like, do you want to just come here? I'd be like, yeah, that's fine. But I was just, I think in our work generally, there are sometimes those things like technology or travel.

13:08I've had some travel things this week where you just go, they will happen. You can't stop them happening. And, you know, I said to you about like, what do you learn from your lows? I think it is just sharing fast that you've got a barrier or a roadblock so that people can help you. Because sometimes what you need is just like, oh, that sounds like a nightmare. You just need that from people. But also sometimes you just like people have fast fixes that maybe you've not thought of. You know, what about this? Or have you thought about this? And you're like, right, OK, yeah, you actually just need lots of ideas.

13:42And then you can just explore them quickly and see what's most helpful. so I think just not keeping it to yourself I think previously my personality is actually the more stressed and worried I am the less likely I am to share something I sort of get a bit like in my shell but I have I've almost taught myself now I just never do that now as soon as something feels hard I'm just like right basically who can I tell um and then I'm like I never you never quite know like whether they'll be able to help you or not but sometimes I think just sharing it with someone so it's it's sort of a you know like a problem shared as a problem halved um that has helped me in more than one uh situation this year beyond windy wi-fi but yeah i didn't enjoy windy wi-fi day yes uh should we do the next one yeah where are we going um let's do experiments next so a high an experiment that has worked well for you or first i guess um and an experiment that has failed so kind of a low which we should say obviously the only experiments that fail are ones where you fail to learn okay actually there's no there's no low here because you're experimenting but i do think it is really helpful to reflect on things you have tried out this year what you have learned because the experiments that have gone well you obviously want to do more of that you kind of want to keep that momentum going and if it's failed that's kind of fine but what you don't want to do is like lose lose the learning from that um i wonder if we've got the same one no we're going to be really boring if all of our things are definitely definitely different um so my experiment that worked were my like meetups i don't know what else to call them but squiggly connections and conversations meetups so i did one in edinburgh i did one in new york and i was there for work reasons in both of those places and i thought you know whilst i'm here i'm gonna look who I know like in these areas and I just used LinkedIn I literally went because I couldn't think oh who do I know in Edinburgh who do I know in New York so I just went on LinkedIn and I looked at who I was connected to so like on LinkedIn you can do first second and third like degree connections or something so like who am I actually connected to so first person connections whatever that actually means on LinkedIn and then you can search by city so I did first Edinburgh first New York and then I literally went through all those people and was like hi I just messaged them I was hi, I'm in blah, blah, blah on this date.

16:05Yeah, you're so good at doing that. And in Edinburgh, I took a slightly different approach. In Edinburgh, I did lots of coffees and they were amazing. Really, really, really useful. And in New York, I did some coffees. And then I also, it was very daunting. I was like, experimented with like a proper meetup. I was like, I'm going to. I know, you just did like an event. I was like, where are you? You were like, I don't know really. Some part of New York. I was like, I don't really know New York. So I was like, I don't know if this is a good place or a bad place, but just got a rooftop, got a couple of bottles of wine and some non-alcoholic drinks for other people.

16:34And yeah, the bottles weren't just for me, I should say. That made it sound like I got a couple of bottles of wine just to increase the confidence and feel good. Everybody, obviously. And yeah, then I invited these people and it was so good. And it felt, it was an experiment because I didn't know if people were going to want to come and I didn't know if they were going to turn up and I could have just been sat on a rooftop on my own. And I was a bit nervous. I mean, I got there before I opened because I was like, I need to be the first one here. I remember you sending me like WhatsApp pictures.

17:04And I was like, I really hope people turn up. So embarrassed. But it did work and it was wonderful. And I have actually one of the people that I met there is actually going to be on our podcast in February. So you know how those things can lead to things, I guess is my, you know, if you're brave, things can lead to things. So that was my experiment that was a high. What about yours? No, you do your low because my high and my low are connected. So it will make more sense to do them together. I'm so intrigued. My low, you'll laugh at this. you'll be like i'm glad that failed i know you will was oh yeah go on posting every day on linkedin so i went on a course i would never be glad that you're sure what does that say about me i think it's a good thing um well i went on a course it means i don't have to like defriend you on linkedin so that's quite useful that's true but it's an interesting experience so i went on a course which was all about kind of building your linkedin profile and i already have you know linkedin's already quite an active very good linkedin profile i'm already quite active on there but I do see it as a really good way that we can find new people with squiggly careers so I want to I want to invest in it's a really good way for us to grow and I was on this course there was lots of advice and I followed it and there's one of the things and there's many bits of advice but one of the things was posting every day and to be honest force there were some benefits of it so for like forcing yourself to post every day means you have to be quite intentional about what you're sharing so it probably made me a bit like when I used to do career tips every day on Instagram, it made me kind of go, oh, what is new?

18:33What is interesting? A bit of a forcing function. It was a real forcing function for my curiosity and my creativity, actually. Like, how do I turn that thing I've read into something that's useful for somebody? Yeah, I mean, some of the things you managed to come up with during that time, I was like, how has she created content out of that? I was doing, like, one pages. I was doing so much stuff. And actually, some of my most shared stuff came from that time. So I think... Okay. So not everything failed. No, not everything. In fact, on paper, it probably worked as an approach that for lots of reasons.

19:01But I think it failed because I didn't stick to it. And I think what I have learned is that sometimes I think you just got to do stuff that's right for you. Because I could have really beat myself up about that. You know, I didn't. I was meant to post every day. That was what I committed to and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just didn't. And I kind of have gone back to what I was doing before, to be honest, with maybe a bit more insight into things. but I think it's okay sometimes to try something you know you might look at someone's advice or look at what someone's doing and go well I've tried it but that's not for me so and not to feel the pressure of having to show up in a way that other people are or do something because everyone's saying well that's the new that's the new cool thing to do we should all be doing it I mean fair enough give it a go but if it doesn't work for you then let it go at the same time so it was you know it was a failure but I think I also kind of took a bit of maybe a bit of confidence from you know the running your own race thing sort of reaffirm that for me yes and also you know there's sometimes a difference between what might be right for an algorithm versus what might be right for you and I'm like for a human do you really want to live your life based on algorithms because because I don't you know and you're just like and I understand that people having that awareness they might be like well I need to build my profile on LinkedIn to help my business but if I think about all the people I follow on LinkedIn who I really like like you I think they know the principles and they're kind of smart about how they do it but they are also thoughtful and intentional you know if you think about someone like Joe Joe Glover yeah I always really like his LinkedIn posts but I don't feel like I see one every day yeah I feel like he just does them I feel like he's he's actually a very different sort of person to you I think he's much more introverted than you would be but he's like you like he always posts in a way that feels like useful but still personal.

20:49Sophie Devonshire as well. Shout out to Sophie. He's a senior at the Marketing Society. I think she always posts. Yeah, she posts in a very thoughtful way. I like Sophie's posts. And very consistent because she's all about kind of curiosity and connection. So there's like that consistency. Yeah. I think that's probably a good insight as well, like with particularly those things. Find the people who you admire. But again, you don't have to copy them, but it is interesting to kind of think, well, what is it that I like about what they do? Go on then. I'm picking up a cup of tea because I want to hear these connected.

21:15Yeah, I don't know how much you're going to. I don't know how much you're going to like. No, you will. You will like this. I'm ready. So my sort of experiments that have worked and failed, which are definitely not just mine, they're definitely ours, are actually all about the podcast. Okay. So I feel like we got to a point with the podcast where we felt really stuck. And experiment really helped us to re-energize, get some momentum, get started. You know, not overthink. I think we were, we'd got some questions that we were struggling to answer. And we were definitely going around in circles with the podcast.

21:51I think that was annoying both of us for then different reasons. You get definitely like a, well, just turn up and do it, Sarah. Like stop asking questions, turn up, record the podcast, walk away. I get to, well, I'm just going to stop it then. Because if that's our attitude, that's it. So I think, you know, the like parent-child thing. I think we both go in quite different directions there. And actually, it doesn't, obviously, it doesn't serve either of us. And also, it means that you don't, you just don't enjoy it. Like, we've always enjoyed the podcast. I think Squiggly Careers came from you and I connecting to talk about careers in a way that was useful for us and we hoped was useful for other people.

22:30And I think that's like, that is at our best. And so I think when we sort of stopped worrying about answers and started just going, okay, so what could we experiment with? how about this as a format or what might this look like and let's just let's just find out don't put too much pressure on ourselves you know remove the whole pressure to be perfect and I remember saying to you what about just doing Borrowed Brilliance every week that might just be a different way to do things and you were like yeah okay I can see how that would work tested it really quickly with a couple of people like that day and then we've just done it and I think in terms of like people listening might be like doesn't feel that different yeah yeah but I think it's felt and I would get that I'm like yeah you so every week you're just talking about something about careers and you're trying to make it useful but I think it has felt different for me um like you said it has ignited curiosity it's given a different kind of way into conversations about careers I hate the idea of being repetitive um or doing things that we've done before because I feel like that's not useful so I'm always kind of naturally very critical of that and with Borrowed brilliant I'm like oh it feels new um it feels new again it feels interesting so that has been it's almost where like experimenting just the act of experimenting has really helped like I'm so convinced that experimenting just helps you move forward with so much more pace and you make more progress and then really quickly you can see like data does it work does it not and some of the data for us on that experiment was how much are we enjoying it yeah and I've just enjoyed it so much more I think we've been doing it maybe for like three months now yeah and you know like the conversations have felt different I think I yeah I mean I could have continued how we were but I think not with you the way that you felt about it so I think for me I was like I have to find a way for Sarah to re-engage and want to do this because I think we were we were in danger like stopping the podcast which I didn't want to do because I love doing it and I think lots of people listen to it um so i think we just needed to find a way that your brain found it fun's not the right word but your your your brain was engaged in it again and i feel like we've kind of cracked that and now i like it more because now we get to talk about random things like marshmallows and breathing chairs so i'm like so i'm kind of engaged because i love the randomness of it and i think for you it just feels more creative and relevant and interesting to do rather than just kind of like how do you run a one-to-one which just felt like we were stuck in that we've done it you know do a good one-to-one but we've done that yeah um so that's been a brilliant experiment i think the thing we've also been experimenting with then like how to record um and you know we now do it so that people can watch it as well as listen um which is fine like i'm i'm i'm fine that people watch it I've got past the point of getting worried about that.

25:21But certainly the logistics of our podcast, everything we have experimented with, I would say this year, like hasn't really worked. And it's felt frustrating for us. It's definitely felt frustrating for our team. It's definitely not fun. It would be, I think, top of quite a few people's list of like, this creates problems and issues and we just haven't quite sorted out. It's almost like the behind the scenes of how you make the podcast happen. So when we have the conversations now, like great. But all of the other things that often people won't see that goes into making the podcast ends up sometimes feeling really hard.

25:59Like the schedule doesn't feel very flexible. It doesn't feel like it reflects how we both work. If we don't do one because something happens, like we're doing work with a partner, all of a sudden, or one of us is ill, it creates a whole cascade of challenges. We miss one the other week for some reason oh I messed something up and you're like the amount of challenges that create it was like one hour of something going wrong that created like an incredible amount of work and like you know just like so many issues so many problems for something where you were like and I'm like I look at that and think oh I'm almost kind of like when to talk about like disappointed I'm always like disappointed in in myself in us I give I give myself a really hard time for for that um and so that's one where i think it's you've got to accept sometimes that experiments just aren't working and what i would have liked to have done sooner when i've thought about this is i don't think we've called it fast enough so actually i think because almost the conversations are working better i think we have lived in the messiness of the logistics and those kind of things like not working making our lives way harder rather than easier and we've just kept living with it you know because sometimes it is easier to live with it than it is to call it out and actually I think that's one of the things that I want to get better at next year is the fast flags where things are feeling hard or where I'm getting a niggle that I'm like this doesn't feel like it's working now I think it's then absolutely okay for then someone to challenge you back on it and say we've not given it long enough and that's that's fine you know like you can't go too too soon but I feel like sometimes because you and I have so many different things that we do having the capacity to call it or to do the fast flag is actually sometimes quite hard and actually as a team I wouldn't say saying the hard thing is like a natural skill that we have as a team either so often saying the hard thing does rely on us saying the hard thing because our team are supportive and they just want to help things and they just want to make things happen and they're often quite like in the moment how do we make the podcast happen for next week you know that's kind of the starting point and so I think I want to do some new experiments with the kind of with that and we've already like started thinking about like what that might look like which none of our listeners will particularly care about because they'll be like we'll just give me the podcast every week but it makes a lot of difference how people it makes a difference to It was.

28:33Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they were my two. Now I thought it was helpful to have a high and low from outside of work. I will admit that I wrote these questions. I know. My, yeah, my sort of guilty admission here is that I wrote these questions for Helen and I'd talked about, sent them to Helen. And then about three days later, I did one where I said, oh, probably we should reflect that we have a life outside of work because I hadn't asked a single question that was about life outside of work. so a high Helen that was nothing to do with Amazing If and maybe a low as well more about kind of life outside work The reality check so my high outside of work has been renovation based so this has been a year of I mean an awful lot of mess where I live but have done quite a lot of work at my house in the garden and also in my office It looks beautiful I'm in my office now which is not kind of fully finished but these are spaces that for me they're just like honestly really important to my mental health I know that sounds weird but like we spend a lot of time in our office because Sarah and I deliver workshops all hours of the day lots of companies I'm you know like many of us I'm I'm in an office quite a lot and so my space here feels really important and so I feel like I've made this nice I'm really excited to be in here and then also I live in the countryside and I find it very I found it just a very grounding place so I can be busy busy busy and you know Sarah will often say am an extrovert and I am but then I have this sort of this extreme moments of introversion so I'm like I'm like 90 % extrovert and then 10 % extreme introvert when I just want to be in like in the country in the garden doing like very I don't want to be with other people I just want to be with my family and I find it really really grounding and so investing in those areas of my life this year means that I'm ending the year I just feel really happy honestly I look outside I sit in my office and I'm like happy really happy oh low um or has it all been good no it's all no as well it's always good reality check my low is actually quite a it's a uh this is probably a bit of recency bias one but I generally don't reflect for a long time on lows but my my nanny who again regular listeners will know that I talk about my nanny all the time and the new book um my dedication in the book is to nanny um she can't be with me this year for Christmas because she's 96 and she just you know she just can't be with me and it is the first time she's 96 she just can't be with me this year and I will still go and see her I'm gonna see her twice over Christmas I'm very very close to her but it's the first time in a long time that she won't be spending Christmas with me and that and it just feels it just feels a little bit hard so it's a bit it's a little bit sad but it is it is the reality of life and she is the most amazing woman and I still get to see her so it's not sad it's just you know it's just it's just life it's just life go on what are yours um my high was a trip to iceland so um me and tom my partner and our little boy max um we went to iceland in july and it was just like the perfect mix of different things to do so we went to recuvic um i saw whales i like i love animals generally but we went out um onto the water and there was like quite a lot of whales you know when you're like a wonderful or see one and then you see quite a few and you see different types of whales and that was just I don't know just it was like magical it's just it was just so exciting um and and I really like Reykjavik as well I like our Airbnb was like around the corner from a really cool coffee shop so I felt at home very quickly other than it is just so expensive I mean London is expensive but then I do feel like Iceland just take it to a whole other level um and so we'd spent some time a recuvit but then we also traveled around and we did all sorts of like just really like fun things like we walked behind like a massive waterfall um we went to like an ice cave and we went into a lava tunnel anyway it was all very naturey quite outdoorsy um but also it was fun for everyone um and my partner always says you should aim for a holiday where it's like an eight or nine out of ten for everyone but that is quite a hard ask i think when you've got an eight-year-old yeah then you know us and that holiday was much more similar to probably the holidays that we did pre having kids so it's helpful that our little boy's a little bit older now um but we also managed to mix it up by going like zip lining which is actually very very fun um and a little mini bungee jump which actually was a lot less fun i actually found that really scary i was like i'll be fine like i like all those kind of things but the bungee jump there is like a moment of weightlessness that i did not enjoy i was like i'm gonna die when you question you're like why am i why am I doing my life choices in that moment um so yeah that was just uh I was like oh it felt so different to things that we've done over the past eight years and when I say different like in the main better um so that was that was super cool um the low was interesting um I didn't have like a specific day or a specific week where I was like oh that was a low I think my reflection is that because our work is so full on the thing that I still sometimes struggle to manage is just the you know being present in evenings and kind of weekends and sort of switching off like the work brain and I think because we also both do work at home it's funny like we're out and about a lot but then we're also like you say we're also at home a lot working um just that you know like put your phone down close your laptop actually talk properly to people and and not then just kind of go back to working I don't feel like this year I've probably got my boundaries quite right um and he and like actually my eight-year-old called me on it the other day because he sees um when he talks about like google he says what he says like can you research something for me mum and I was on my phone the other day and he was talking to me um and he was like oh what are you researching and I was thinking well I'm not I'm not researching anything because he thinks I should be researching for him um and I'm not I was like doing a work email or something um and I suppose he's just getting to the point where he's a bit older and a bit more aware and you can imagine what your role modeling will have a bit more of a ripple effect um and I'm not that good at putting my phone down um and and just kind of walking away or kind of stopping work and stuff and so I think just one of the things when I think about next year is just to figure out what would be helpful for that because usually for me it's um I am a big fan of things like habit stacking it's it's always really helped me like since I've learned about that I've definitely got better at things because of habit stacking um and it's stupid stuff like I found I've got um where I put like my phone charger so I'm not always great at charging my phone I'm sometimes a bit messy one might say I don't think that people would know this about you that you're like a bit I don't know scatty is not the right word but you're like you're messy you but you lose stuff quite a lot yeah I have bought a lot of pairs of headphones this year more than ever before so some years I like lose my cards quite a lot but I never lose them I misplace them and I always find them again um I mean I've I can see three pairs of headphones from talking to you I've got some in and then some that I bought last week actually with you and then some that I think I bought a couple of weeks ago because I can't contemplate going on transport like a little secret Sarah fact that people they'll be like Sarah's so like calm and collected and confident I'm like yeah she is all of those things but she's also just really messy and she just forgets like stuff everywhere she leaves and also the busier I am yeah the messier I get because I actually get very single-minded so even like today we're recording the podcast you were like well have you got headphones and I was like no I've got headphones for my phone but I haven't got headphones and actually what this is the genius of being messy I then dug around in my bag just to see and I was like oh have actually got some.

36:23Who knows how long the charge will last, but actually it's lasted. So we're kind of all good. So I do, and I don't think that's good. I don't think that's good for me. Like generally, a little bit of messiness is fine because that's just my actual personality, much to my partner's distress. But I think there is like, I can see a tipping point. And actually I'm definitely in it right now. Like the pre-Christmas messiness has reached new levels to the extent where my partner won't walk in a room that I work in and also have all my stuff in. He's like, oh, I couldn't. he actually said to me last night um oh do you know where this is um oh but i couldn't if it's in the study i couldn't face walking in there i couldn't face it i was like strong language he used he used that language i mean it just makes me laugh a bit but again that's not what i think he's looking for um so i do i i do think i sort of want to create a bit of a commitment to myself to just kind of be like right okay how do i because work won't stop being busy that's fine because I love it and I want to be doing all the things that we're doing.

37:21But, you know, like knowing it is okay to put your phone down for two hours, like knowing it is okay to like leave your laptop behind and also just think about like am I listening to my partner or my son when they talk to me? And I'm sure it's like it's a constant calibration, right, for everyone. But I don't always think I've got it right this year. I have done a lot of work though. Well, that's a funny outcome of that. Well, when you've reflected on it, obviously, however I can help, let me know. I would say one thing is, as you are reflecting on it, I think on that one, it's worth thinking about how much of the need to respond is real versus habitual.

38:04So as in, actually, if it's real, then we should put some rules in place that mean that certain messages don't come at certain times or we change people's expectations of responses. if it is um habit then that's something kind of for you to put those you know like like oh I charge in a different place all that kind of stuff but I think and actually I do think I do think it's me I actually don't think like we don't I've worked in teams where being a kind of real time responder actually did really matter you know like that was the nature of those roles and nobody at 8 30 p.m at night is going I need career development right now like no no one and And, you know, it's not like we don't have unreasonable clients.

38:46It's very rare that I have people going, I need a proposal in 24 hours for learning. Those things are quite rare. And again, when you're messaging me, it's very rare where you're like, Sarah, we need to sort this. We need to troubleshoot this at the next hour. And so I actually think the vast majority of it is me and kind of what you've got used to. So I think, yeah, I think it's me holding myself to account. should we do one more next year yes yeah last one um so this is about like anticipating highs and lows um a high that you're anticipating for next year um and a low that you want to avoid okay okay my high that i'm anticipating well there is a lot to look forward to next year i think next year is going to be a very big year because of book launches and other stuff that we're starting um but i am very specifically looking forward to spending some time in america with you and I think there's probably some stuff that's happening that we can't quite talk about yet because it's nearly it's nearly confirmed but um I think it there are some things it's also not that secret though right well I don't is it that secret well we need to make sure some of it's I like your teaser though I like you're like let's create some mystery around it well it's not it's not like all definitely confirmed but it's very close oh okay once it's confirmed it will happen but um there are some moments I'm really looking forward to doing with Sarah in the US that we never done before and it's a bit like it's a bit bucket listy for us i mean i mean our bucket list is not everyone's bucket list but like you know like do the ted talk it's no one's bucket list it's like this random career bucket list but like it's things like it's just something that i think we'll be really proud of for many many years to come and i'm very looking forward to doing some of that stuff together um and we haven't we haven't been to the us together so i think that'll be a new a new little thing for us to do um so that is my high do you want to do yours oh i had the same oh did you um yeah no yeah yeah i had as i could say also because um i think those things are stretching for us so like you said it's things that we've not done before it's new relationships it'll be kind of finding our way with new communities so i'm looking forward to it but also with like a little bit of apprehension and i know it will definitely be sort of you know we talk about like comfort challenge courage zone definitely like courage zone stuff for me um Because, you know, sometimes we talk about our books with communities where they're already on board and it's amazing.

41:02And everyone's like, yes, just help me learn. And we already believe you're good at what you do. So we just want we just want your ideas. Whereas this will be people who've never heard of us before and never heard of squiggly careers. I think that's a really good stress test and you'll get different questions. So I sort of like knowing that I've got something already in the year that's going to sort of force me to be a bit of a beginner and have those challenging moments. What did you have to avoid? this feels a bit negative to finish on maybe we'll say something else at the end Merry Christmas Happy New Year my avoid is a bit of a weird one I want to avoid saying yes without checking first so I and so let me explain I think you've got better at this I'm surprised by that do you know what though I'm still doing it I'm still so maybe I've got better so that's good I shouldn't beat myself up about it but I used to just say yes to everything because I want to do everything and I love doing different things.

41:55So I say yes to everything. And Sarah thinks I've got better, but I've still noticed sometimes I say yes and it can be to anything. It can be to an evening out and I don't think about the impact on my other half who has to come home early so that I can do that. Or it can be a yes to a call and I don't think of the impact on the person who manages my diary who then has to try and fit that in. And I think it's a little bit selfish. And I really don't mean to be. It comes from a place that I want to speak to that person. I want to go to that person. I think it comes from a place of energy and excitement.

42:26Yeah, I'm not trying to be selfish, but I do think I'm just becoming, I am able to do all the things that I want to do because of the support that I've got around me. And the last thing that I want to do is to say yes in a way. Is those people to leave? Yeah. I mean, that. I wasn't thinking about that, Sarah. That's dramatic. I was imagining what happened if the support system left you. She'd be like, we're out, Helen, we're out. But I just, I don't want to, I don't want what I am saying yes to, to cause them problems, basically. I just want to do that. And it doesn't mean that I wouldn't say yes.

42:59I think I might just, I might just ask first. I might say, look, I really want to do this. Is it okay? Whereas a lot of the time I go, I've said yes to this. Now can you? And it's just, I just want to, I don't want to do that. I don't want to put people in that position. It's the yes sense check. Maybe you just need to have like a word, the yes sense check. Like, just before I say yes to this, I'm just going to sense check it with partner, Sarah and our team, someone else. You know, just like maybe with me sometimes, you might be like, because you do, actually, to be fair, now you've said that, I'm like, you do often leave me voice notes with things you've already committed to or committed us to, which often start with, I hope it's okay.

43:36I've agreed. It's always that. It's like, I hope it's okay. I've agreed to, and I'm a bit like, well, what am I going to say? Like, no. which most of the time I'm like it's fine um my avoid actually is a really specific one it I think you and I have recurring conversations about things that we find frustrating where we're basically complaining really and those things often like happen a bit it's the same conversation like you know this this is feeling frustrating again and you get to the point I think with some of those where actually that does start to feel quite demotivating or I start to get sort of either frustrated with myself or with other people that I'm like oh I'm still talking about this um and nothing's nothing's changed and I feel like for those recurring conversations which actually I think are quite easy to spot um you know they're always like pain points or familiar frustrations we sometimes call them and so one of the things that I sort of want to avoid next year is just having those chats and sometimes I think you and I need it because we have to get stuff out of our system you and I have to use each other to get stuff out of our system otherwise I don't think we'd survive I'm like there are moments where it's like just get stuff out the system but I do think where it's like the same stuff out of the system again and again I sort of want you and I to be like okay but you know we have good ideas we're good we're good problem solvers we're creative in how we think let's put our heads together and go well what what could we do about this or let's ask the team you know it's not always got it's not always got to be as we can involve other people in it and I think sometimes again we end up being a bottleneck because maybe we assume like we we've got to come up with the solution to this um and say yeah I was like that's I don't want to end next year and be like oh i've just talked we the things that we are getting out of the system are the same as they were last year um if they're new things that's fine we should write down we should um we should just write down what are some familiar frustrations so just just write them down and and just like you like save them save them somewhere and then next year oh do you know we should write them down and then we should put them in the diary for like the 10th of december 2026 and we should be like have we solved those or we still got the same frustrations yeah yeah because we could just do it probably not everyone needs to see those but you and i have our own team's channel little secret chat yeah i mean it's a chat that nobody else wants to ever be part of um but we could just put them in there and be like well here are the familiar frustrations from this year and i actually think equally what you know like when we get together because we usually get we do see each other occasionally we could we could always have that as like a an agenda item for when we're together oh let's just go back to familiar frustrations how frustrating do they currently feel out of 10 have we made any progress what what's stopping us if we've not um and i also think i hate the idea of that still being true in a year's time now you've said that if we write it down there is no way that i think it is acceptable for that to be true in 12 months time like this is not you would look ahead i couldn't live with myself i've checked i would yeah i know you would but that's not a bad thing it's not a bad thing yeah so we also have some other questions that we thought we will put on the pod sheet so you can either enough of us for one day.

46:54Yeah, none of us talking about those. So it has been, it is, that's why I'm saying at the start, like it's very useful to talk about this in quite a high reflective mode. So we will put the questions that we've answered on the pod sheet and some other ones, which we haven't shared our responses, but we also found very useful. So I mentioned at the start, the pod sheet you can get from our website. If you just go to amazingif.com and the podcast page, you'll find all of our episodes there. And every one of the episodes has a one page that you can download that summarizes it. And if you ever can't find it, just email us Helen and Sarah at squigglycareers.com.

47:24So thank you so much for listening. And we've got two more episodes left this year. It's a part one and a part two. So Sarah and I are looking at squiggly career trends for 2026. We've got 10 trends and we're talking about what the trend is, how it might affect you and your development and what you can do about it at the start of next year to set yourself up for success. So that is everything for today, everybody. Take care. Bye for now.

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