Squiggly Careers Live: How You Can Keep Learning at Work (Even When It Feels Hard)

27:23Helen Tupper:And that just makes it worse because then we sit there in the pub. And by the time we're drunk, we're like, everyone hates me. It's like, no, everyone hates me. And we have to try and talk each other off a ledge, which is really hard to do. So what I found found help. So I've got loads of notes because I'm like, when I get nervous, I ramble. So I'm like, if I keep the notes, hopefully I'll be on topic. So some of my solutions. Before filming, I'd always make sure I do exercise. So I would take some of the stress off and hopefully sleep well the night before. for example today I knew that I might sleep badly last night so I slept loads the night before so I'm like even if I don't sleep tonight I got a good sleep on Sunday night so like worst case scenario I'll be all right today and then afterwards a really important thing to do if you've had it's not just for podcasting anything talking if you've got a big meeting big things to do at work asking for feedback is really valuable because but needs to be honest feedback so you go how did I do?

28:19Helen Tupper:And everyone would be like, you were great. And you go, oh, you're good. And you're like, okay, cool. Can you give me constructive feedback so I can go from good to great? So that really helped. For me, I've got YouTube comments. I was terrified to watch the video, let alone read the YouTube comments. So my co-host is like, you need to just face it head on. But yeah, asking for feedback is how you improve because they'll give you, they'll be like, you weren't that bad, but if you want to be better, this is how you get better. And then you take that on board. Don't get upset. you've got to be strong take the constructive criticism and then try and improve um and I think

28:53Timeyin Akerelethey:one of the things that I've noticed from our conversations together which I think is a really useful approach to shell shedding moments is also being honest about how you are feeling in that moment so because I think sometimes people assume things are hard they're not for you and the other way around so in our first conversation together I had assumed I was like well he's got his own podcast this is going to be a breeze for him kind of no sweat and you turned up and really quickly told me actually I'm feeling quite nervous about this um you know maybe not something that you kind of do loads like how's this going to look and even tonight you were like I was like oh let's let's come and have a look at the room but I think by acknowledging like how you're feeling in a shell shedding moment it sort of you kind of can make friends with the fear a bit more rather than you keep it to yourself and again back to that you're kind of putting a mask on then I think it's hard for other people to help you like I have definitely been different and probably looked after you probably more than I might have done other people because I was like well I will send him the questions beforehand and oh if you want to like run things by me oh do you want to come and have a look at the room but if I hadn't known you know you I can't provide that that support that's true definitely true um so who else helps you so you've got a bit like me you've got a co-host which is always useful it's always good to have someone you can go go for a drink with and decide it's sort of awful but okay at the same time um Helen and I've had lots of those conversations it's like awful and okay um but who else because I do think having the right people around you during these moments makes a massive difference really important um you've got to have a team

30:26Helen Tupper:you can ask your partner for me I ask my mum so like on the way here I was talking to her about my questions and things I was going to say I'm like what do you think and she she she's a doctor So she's very good with people and she always gives me, she's very high EQ. So yeah, she understands things. So she gave me some tips. It's always good to listen to professional people. If you want feedback or if you want to learn generally, it's always good to go for someone who's like a little bit above you. So for example, if you're an intern in a company and you want to get a job and you want to do really well, there's no point going to the CEO and being like, how do you do your job?

31:05Helen Tupper:How do you run this company? because it's not relevant to you. You need to go to whoever's got the job you want, whoever's doing well in the job you want, and then say, can you give me some tips? Can you give me some feedback on this? And yeah, always ask for constructive criticism. But I think the most important thing is to always be ready to take it on board and not be offended and not be upset.

31:23Timeyin Akerelethey:Yeah, because it's interesting. You can ask for feedback, but then often I think people forget how you receive it makes a really big difference. And not everybody is equally good at giving feedback because it's not always a skill we've practiced loads. So if you can get really good at receiving, you can sort of let the learning in without maybe worrying about exactly how it's been delivered. And hopefully it's been delivered kind of brilliantly. When you're thinking about kind of feedback generally to help you to learn and grow, do you also give feedback or is it you asking for yourself?

31:55Helen Tupper:That's a good question. I feel like I'm generally asking for myself, to be honest. I think we're all a bit like that, though. If someone asks me for feedback, I'll gladly give it. But I feel like, especially in our culture, it's not, we're always like, oh, good job. But no one really gives you constructive or criticisms in their feedback. So, yeah, I think it's more for me, but it's being able to accept it.

32:18Timeyin Akerelethey:Yeah, it's really interesting. I was listening to an interview with someone who'd been a professional rugby player, and he's gone into media now. And he was saying the thing he finds most frustrating is the poor quality of feedback that he gets. So he just gets what we would describe as positive phrase, like fab job, or that was great. which makes you feel good. But actually for lots of us, we just dismiss it. We're like, oh, they're just being nice. So it doesn't actually feel that useful. And he was saying he was so used to being in like a professional sport capacity where A, they use loads of data for their development, but also it's really clear, this is what you're doing well and we want you to do more of it because that's where you're kind of really having good impact.

32:56Timeyin Akerelethey:Here's your one work on. That's what, that's kind of what they use. Whereas he was saying like, he just did stuff in front of camera and they were like, yeah, great. And he was like, oh, I'll just kind of go home. And he sort of felt a bit stuck then because of it i was like oh that's really interesting um you mentioned before um that you you sort of are starting to preempt tough moments and thinking about how can you prepare yourself so the sort of the sleep before the sleep is how i'm now thinking of it i was like that's a really good example like the sleep before the sleep um given we know we will all have these shell shedding moments they might not all be as big as a massive podcast with loads of loads of comments but kind of those moments that do feel tough but we're never quite sure when they're going to come what else could people do do you think to sort of invest in almost kind of helping to be ready

33:43Helen Tupper:for when that shell shedding happens so there's things you can do before and things you can do in the moment before it's like for this it's always good to be prepared so like the more you prepare the better um but what we what I've realized is that most people disqualify themselves so you think oh I'm not qualified for this I'm not good enough I've interviewed Deborah Meaden from Dragon's Den the Bank of England I'm sitting there like I don't have a big portfolio I don't have hundreds of thousands invested like why am I talking to Deborah Meaden this is so scary but you disqualify yourself most of the time so if you think oh I'm not going to be good at this I'm not good enough then you probably won't be but if you're like I can do this it's it's really self self-actuating is that what you call it yeah so um I say you have to if you make mistakes um So when you're trying to learn on the go, write it down and be like, this is what I want to not do next time.

34:34Helen Tupper:So to kind of preempt things, for example, me, I speak very quickly, like I said, when I'm nervous. So here I've written speak slowly in big letters. So you've got to kind of know your own weaknesses and accept them. So if something if you have a great day and they go, oh, it was good, but you spoke too quickly or you interrupted your co-host, which is something I used to do. Interrupts. I'm too eager to speak. You've got to know for next time. I don't want to do that again. No point crying over spilt milk, but write down on your piece of paper on your notes. Do not interrupt in capital letters.

35:02Helen Tupper:Speak slowly in capital letters. And then at least you might make other mistakes, but you won't make those same mistakes again. So, yeah, I think you've got to be aware of yourself.

35:10Timeyin Akerelethey:I think that is such a helpful hack, because one of the things that we know is that with the way your brain works, you're more likely to repeat a mistake than actually to learn from it. You know, we all say, oh, you know, I'll learn from that mistake for next time. our brains like patterns so actually you know like the i won't be late again because you know next time i'll be more organized and then you're late again um and because it's sort of familiar and that's just kind of how we're used to behaving you sort of do do the same things that i won't interrupt if you just think to yourself i'm not going to interrupt next time you probably will still interrupt whereas actually if you can sort of get the learning out of your head and i and share it in some way like in our team like it or not our whole team are made to do mistake moments we all share our mistakes with each other all of the time so that we can share the learning um or even if you're just writing it down like you say it's sort of you're making I suppose the learning unmissable you've kind of moved on from the mistake but you're like but I know what I know what I've learned I forgot one point but luckily I wrote it down

36:09Helen Tupper:my co-host gave me something that really changed my life um he said think of podcasting or whatever you do as um like basketball because I love basketball I play basketball he's like Kobe brian my favorite basketball player he always reviewed his game tape so every time he'd play a game he'd watch it look at his mistakes look at his errors and i said okay next time i'll do this better and he said you can't be a podcaster and not watch your videos i'm like but i'm so shy and it's so cringe he's like you definitely can you can i know right you get 500 episodes without watching it um but he said embrace the cringe so whether you're a chef if you're a chef it means taste your food don't just cook 100 meals and be like i'm a great chef they're going to be great test your food um if i used to work in women's health i was giving talks to in the women's wellness center in fulham road like all sorts of women's health and i used to give motivational talks to the team and because it was a predominantly female environment i wanted to make sure that it was my talks were impactful so i would give the talk i'd go oh that was great but then i talked to the team like how did i do what could i have done better and get feedback from them and then yeah if you're in the office or if you're chairing a meeting ask people how you did ask your bosses ask your co-hosts your co-workers how you did so yeah always get feedback um if you run a hotel ask the staff ask the guests how was their stay don't just assume because it's a nice hotel they had a great time they'd be like there was no hot water so yeah you need to find out these things

37:29Timeyin Akerelethey:that's good advice i find that very confronting because my excuse is well i don't need to listen or watch the podcast because i was there um and that is what i tell myself that's what i used to myself yeah that is definitely why whereas actually i think there's a good argument to say it's because i think i would it would be shell shedding for me to do that and it sounds almost ridiculous like it's almost embarrassing to say but i find it really tricky to do so i feel like i am going to well not feel i am i am i'm going to commit to watching this back and try not to hate myself um and decide that i am as funny as i think i am um after this because i was like i I definitely fall into that trap.

38:11Timeyin Akerelethey:And there is some really good research, which I always come back to because I do find it really useful. Two Harvard professors did it where they said, if you know you're going to do something that's going to feel uncomfortable, you know it's going to feel tough. Almost if you kind of write that into the experience, like I know that watching this back is going to be uncomfortable. You know, that's a signal that you're sort of getting it right rather than a sign that you're getting it wrong. Whereas almost like if we're just like, oh, I expect to feel great. when I watch this back. Then when we don't, when we do feel uncomfortable, you're like, I'm just going to stop it.

38:45Timeyin Akerelethey:You know, I won't kind of make it through the video. Final piece of advice for us, Tomein.

38:50Helen Tupper:I've learned from all my jobs and from the podcast that learning isn't really, if you want to improve yourself, you want to change. It's not something that happens overnight. I don't know about you guys. I go to, I watch podcasts. I go to talks. I go to things. I'm like, yeah, I walk out. I'm like, I'm going to make a big change. I feel great. I feel really motivated. Then I go home and I'm like, yeah, I wake up the next day and I'm like, I still feel motivated, 50 % motivated. And then three days later, I'm back to normal doing the same things. And I've completely forgotten about it. So improvement is kind of an ongoing thing.

39:19Helen Tupper:You have to, consistency is the most important thing. So something like Squiggly Careers, the Making Money podcast, something you have to make it part of your life if you want to improve. So you have to say, it's hard to make changes. But if I go to this every week, I watch this podcast every week. I read a book every week. I know I'm going to develop and the habits become natural to you. So my final note would be, we've got to read so many books for the podcast. Looking forward to reading about the lobster. I liked your last book, but I would say that audio books are a really good way to learn lots of things because you can put it on fast speed where you're driving, you're in the shower.

39:53Helen Tupper:You can learn a lot with audio books. You can listen to podcasts on fast speed. So, yeah, that's my hack. Audio books, get a lot of stuff done and then make it a routine, make it part of your life. so you're like every tuesday i watch squiggly careers every thursday it's like exercising or going to church like every sunday i go to church you get the benefits on sunday you're very holy on monday you're like pushing over your sibling so it's the same thing exercise you've got to keep at the exercise and with personal development you've got to make it part of you and just keep going and just make it a habit and then over time you'll improve and you'll learn

40:24Timeyin Akerelethey:and you'll get better add the learning in rather than just expect it to happen exactly love it Tamayne, thank you so much.

40:30Helen Tupper:Thank you. That wasn't so bad.

40:31Timeyin Akerelethey:Thank you.

40:34Sarah Ellis:Our third guest is the amazing Amy Conroy, four times Paralympian, and also the co-founder of Squad Games, as sort of modelled by the amazing IF team here. This is the best team-building activity I have ever done. And I have done many. I have done many. Not just because I won a medal. I might say it again. not just because I won a medal it's the only medal in my sport it was a trophy yeah I did get a trophy I tried to find it because I thought I wouldn't wouldn't that be nice for me if I brought it on the stage but I think my son has taken it I think he's like claimed it as his own um we'll talk to him about that tomorrow but um I did win a trophy um for my prowess but more importantly it is it is it's just an amazing team experience like you can see I feel like there's so many because I'm in sequins and heels there's a debbie at the front who's very competitive vivie's just vivie is just like happy just happy just happy all kinds of emotions happen at squad games um and amy is the co-founder of squad games so um i kind of wanted to almost i guess start at squad games as a way of talking to people about your story before we then explore some of the hard moments and how they've helped you learn so amy tell us tell us how you got to squad games how is how has that come from your your career and your personal experience um so as you mentioned squad games is

41:58Amy Conroy:about shining a light on disability inclusion so i guess i'll start with how i acquired my disability this shiny bad boy here pride of place on my hinge profile um so to start back in the two-leg days i was this really sporty kid i would turn up for any school sports wouldn't let a thing like talent get in my way i would show up and i started getting this pain in my knee and it got worse and worse over the course of the year. I went back and forth to the doctors and they'd send me away saying it was sports brains, flat feet, growing pains and I just started high school and then started collapsing, so not ideal.

42:32Amy Conroy:And I remember one time really vividly where I collapsed and every time I tried to get back up my knee just kept giving way and I just panicked and I crawled to the nearest building and this was in front of a guy that I fancied at the time. So at that point it was like enough is enough my dignity has been compromised my future marriage to kira and john and i went home where is he might be listening no and i went home and told my dad and he took me to a &e the next day and pretty much demanded an x-ray and he'd been called out and i was waiting for him to come back in he'd been gone ages and then i kept trying to catch his eye for reassurance and i remember he wouldn't look at me looked like he'd been crying really solemn atmosphere the doctor was saying these big words like osteosarcoma and then they said that was a type of aggressive rare cancer and that's when my heart plummeted.

43:17Amy Conroy:For me at the time cancer had meant death. My grandparents, my uncle, my mum had all died of cancer. Pretty much thought, oh cripes, this is it, I'm gonna pop my clogs at 12. I was given a 30 % chance of survival because it spread a lot, spread to the lungs and I was given a big old wheelchair and little did I know that when I sat in that chair that'd be the last time I walked for the next two years. Went home, packed a bag, went into hospital where I stayed for the course of a whole year minus a precious nine days at home started chemotherapy pretty soon and boy did it hit me hard I was sick 75 times on the first day I don't know what I counted soon stopped tragic statistic it was relentless it was if I lay flat on my back if I moved too suddenly if I spoke too much if I smelt food my poor dad would eat his pot noodles on the toilet to avoid I know really undignified image sure he's thrilled I'm sharing it with all of you guys um but it was tough my um hair fell out pretty soon i went through the stage of looking like a lollipop that had fooled on the carpet just bits tufts of hair decided to shave it all off and fun fact it's the only time i've ever had knits kick a gal while she's down just running across my bald head my dad would swat them off but it really was a tough year there were lots of surgeries and amputation when the cancer wasn't responding well enough covered in tubes um and whenever we lost another kid on the ward kind of the severity of the situation would always hit home but my dad is my absolute hero and role model always has been always will be um he stayed with me every single night often sleeping on a wooden chair and he just remained the strongest kindest person like he was raising two young girls looking after his his wife our mum as she was dying working full time and I just learned so much from him that year it's kind of led to all of this and one is just very relatable to the the lobster shedding their their shell but just the power of resilience and and kind of he taught me quite early on that nature of life there's going to be good and bad no one can get away with coasting through with all going swimmingly um and so in the good times it's really important to to notice what's good and be present and be grateful and for the times that are tough for anyone going through that now you do get through it it will pass it does pass and also good can come from the tough times in the form of strength of character and resilience like it's not those cushy success stories that distill who we are it's those times when our backs are against the wall and we're having to dig really deep and we're like where the hell is the light at the end of this tunnel and you start questioning like i don't know if i can get through this am i strong enough they're the times i think you can really impress yourself and be proud of yourself and you gain strength of character and you think this is who I am this is what I stand for clarity for what's important and perspective um like there's only one way to get resilience it's the hard way unfortunately but then that's with you for life um I went back to school after remission this little bald kid no eyebrows no eyelashes braces glasses the whole shebang one leg big old wheelchair I was just so excited to be alive um however I started getting quite self-conscious and soon realized that life was really different with a disability.

46:23Amy Conroy:I couldn't get in and out of my own house by myself, going back to school. I couldn't get in any of the classrooms. I was the first kid in a chair. So I did lessons by myself. PE lessons was me throwing a ball against the wall by myself because I was a health hazard. I hope because of the chair, not my aim. That'd be far too humbling. I would never admit to that. And I just thought back then that life would always be smaller and a bit worse with a disability. I listened to the stereotypes and kept myself in that cage. And that's when I found basketball. And for the first time kind of in a while, I just felt not less than an equal.

46:54Amy Conroy:And it was fun and it's really feisty, as you can attest to.

46:57Timeyin Akerelethey:You're the leader here. It was quite feisty.

47:00Amy Conroy:For me. As cheesy as it sounds, I think it just really changed my whole view of myself and disability and disability sport. And that's what gave the inspiration to squad games, because anyone can come and play wheelchair basketball.

47:12Sarah Ellis:I feel like you've also massively skipped over the four times Paralympian bit in there. We just have to give a bit of credit as well for that, that along the way in the basketball, Well, that's quite a big thing that you've achieved, Amy.

47:24Timeyin Akerelethey:And we did actually meet Amy's dad. And he was there at the day that we were doing kind of squad games. And I think instantly he's a very calm presence, I would say. That was my first impression of him, is he was very calm. He was very grateful for us being there. Whereas we were like, we can't, well, I was like, I can't wait to get started. Amy has just told me I'm allowed to hit people with this wheelchair. she has just given me permission to do this i was literally the only person who did it though in our team everyone else was apologizing sorry sorry i was like oh checking in everyone okay everyone enjoying this sir it's like let me get that ball so your dad yeah he does have this sort of calm and supportive presence um and it's just it's really nice to hear you kind of talk about him as like that that kind of role model that was immediately there and obviously kind of always there um what do you think has helped him because that is that was it's a lot for you it's also a lot for him happening all at once I feel like there were multiple shells being shed but all at the same time you know there's having a shell shedding moment then there's what you describe which I think is incredibly tough like when you when he reflects when you reflect like what do

48:36Amy Conroy:you think has helped him oh that's a really good question um I think he has a really good sense of humour so there are times when we're at our lowest and we'd have these unspeakable bedpan mishaps that we can't talk about the details this day and even at the time we'd just be laughing about so I think sometimes just when you're at your lowest a bit of sense of humour and I think he's really kind and I know people can talk about that a lot but sometimes it can get lost in like busy lives um with so much happening in the world you can kind of see see the bad parts noticing the good in people um and doing kind little good deeds you really can change people's day and it's so cheesy if you can change people's day, whether they're having a good or a bad day.

49:15Amy Conroy:I remember one time, one of my precious nights at home, and I got really sick, and I went to hospital in the middle of the night, and I was terrified, sitting in the back of the car throwing up, and these girls looked out the window, and we at 3am, sorry, I have a car driving past, and I just said, you're beautiful, and thinking back, 3am, they're probably drunk, wasted, but it just, and I'm still waffling about it to this day, because it just made my day, and you just don't know the effect you're having on people, and even just smiling at people, and when they smile back, you start to think, oh, people are great, aren't they?

49:40Amy Conroy:So I think, and I learned that from him and in several positivity in our family, but I just think kindness is something that is just a good secret to joy.

49:48Timeyin Akerelethey:And I do think there's some really, there's some, we've had them on the podcast before, ladies called Naomi and Jennifer who do, who wrote a book called Humour Seriously. And they have actually proved that actually having a sense of humour, people laughing, even like a bit of levity in those really like tough times. You sort of got to laugh about it, otherwise you'll cry. Actually, it's really, really helpful. like high performing teams you take your work seriously but you don't take yourself too seriously so maybe your dad sort of has that magic secret sauce he perhaps just hasn't you know been to

50:19Amy Conroy:harvard yet to learn to learn about the research just saying to you one of my good friends he's really young had a stroke a few days ago and a few days before that i'd had a really bad hospital appointment sorry if this is too vulnerable but um where i was told i'd have to have a pole that comes out of my leg into the bone it sounds grim and gross and it means you can never do sport and And I went to visit her in hospital and we cried together. But we also were just making fun of each other a lot. And she was making fun of me having this poll and I was making fun of her speech. And we just thought, oh, this is really terrible, terrible time.

50:46Amy Conroy:But just laughing about it just took the edge off a little bit. And that's probably terrible advice, but just something that I found. Yeah, sometimes things can be really deep and serious. But, you know,

50:57Sarah Ellis:I think we would. I think one of the things that I would say to you is this incredible, incredible optimism that you bring to. work I wonder in um I guess as a Paralympian you're playing what's that competitive games lots you win some you lose we're not all doing that in our days at work but how how do you stay optimistic when because you know failure or things not going the way you want them to that feels hard that feels vulnerable so how Amy's optimism in that moment how do you draw on it that's such

51:30Amy Conroy:a good question I could go down so many routes um I guess the resilience is one and something also that I've learned kind of at my lowest times and it sounds like such a buzzword but positive mindset and not like the fake force type that's like you know whoo chemo's great I'm having fun you having a hoot as you know when stuff's bad it's important to talk about it grieve about it for mental health but I'd always just say there's only so long kind of you can have a bit of a pity party it doesn't get you anywhere and you have to draw a line under kind of the woe is me attitude a little bit as you often can't control the situation.

52:04Amy Conroy:You can always control your attitude and how you react to things. And if you're like, this is awful, this is so awful, I can't see how I'm going to get through this, it can feel a bit worse. And I know, kind of, I don't trivialise anything. I've got three out of four limbs still intact, going strong, not to brag. But I just kind of think sometimes if you narrate, kind of what you get to narrate, what's happening around you and what you focus on, and sometimes it can be almost a habit to focus on the negative parts, like the glass being half empty, the leg that's missing um like I have a friend and she's always like oh there's this oh and then the way and I think it's just a habit sometimes that we can get caught up in sometimes holding ourselves accountable and noticing what we're focusing on I found can really help me personally

52:42Timeyin Akerelethey:um it's also interesting Amy you said um we've actually talked about it recently you use the word noticing quite a few times and I do think noticing is a bit of a career secret skill if you can get good at it you know like noticing the voice in your head is it working for you Is it working against you? Like noticing what worked well today, noticing what even better if would be for tomorrow, like noticing the small kindness that you could do for somebody else. And I feel like your dad was good at like also noticing and is good at noticing like what you need. What you need right now, actually you just need to laugh about it.

53:15Timeyin Akerelethey:What you need right now is just to be kind. So I think that kind of noticing like feels really important and in everybody's context, something that we could probably all get a bit better at, you know, because there's loads of distractions now. There's things that steal our attention all the time. And that takes away from noticing, from sort of being present and in the moment. What do you do though when you've lost a game of basketball? Because I saw you play and you were impressive. I was like watching in awe going, wow, there's basketball. And then there's Amy playing basketball. And I did seem to be the only person asking you for like extra tips when we were having a break, a water break.

53:51Timeyin Akerelethey:And I was like, so just give me a few tips for the second half. So you must be competitive and you must obviously love to win. But when you have a bad game as a team and you lose and you're all disappointed, how do you kind of use that as kind of data to then think, well, how do we get better? How do we learn and grow together as a team? You didn't win every match, did you? I know you won most matches. Did you lose some?

54:16Amy Conroy:Yeah, yeah. Different times at tournaments, you can play back to back and you can be really hyped up and spend almost a year analysing, say, Canada we had recently, and then we lost to them instantly on the first day, which we weren't expecting. We had one night to pick ourselves back up and then go again the next day. So I think it can be really tough, and we've got a lot of egos in the team. So I think knowing how each other's works, knowing each other's, as you mentioned, motivation, and on a deeper level than that, people's why, how to re-motivate them, like why are you doing what you're doing to get that spark back.

54:45Amy Conroy:But also I think we've come out stronger after losses because I think with winning sometimes you get complacent and you think, oh, everything that we're doing is fine. Whereas you then have a bit of a target on your back and people are analysing you within sport. So sometimes having to go back to the drawing board and taking it all apart and thinking, I have to be really honest with myself and have tough conversations and be like, that wasn't good enough, that wasn't good enough for me. Having to do it really quickly. And then we usually do that with some biscuits or something, just take the edge off all these horrible, vulnerable conversations.

55:13Sarah Ellis:So just one kind of final bit of wonderful Amy wisdom before we bring everybody back on and kind of open up for a bit of Q &A. If there was something you've learned, so we talked about optimism. Then we talked a bit about your community, your dad. I know you've not mentioned your sister, but I know that she's a big part of your community, a big part of your resilience. I loved what you talked about, about teams and understanding people's why and also sort of watching out for the ego. There's loads of brilliant insight in that. Just watching out. I'm joking. But is there anything else that you think that people that are listening, people that are here tonight, if they are in a tough time, Is there anything that you have taken away from your times that's helped you, like, you know, go again or I guess in the lobster grow again, which is what we're, you know, we're really helping people to do.

55:56Sarah Ellis:Is there any other bit of wisdom that you'd impart on people?

55:58Amy Conroy:In tough times, I guess to keep on the shell shedding theme, I think I've had many times shedding. Sometimes it's gone well, sometimes it hasn't. Each time you pick yourself back up. But I guess one obvious one was when I was the one who was getting in my own way. and it was when I had this big dream to play wheelchair basketball for Great Britain and I was doing everything I possibly could and this coach had told me I'd have to take my prosthetic leg off to play and I remember being absolutely mortified at the time and just thought, I genuinely thought I can never do that. I was so self-conscious.

56:28Amy Conroy:I was wearing jeans and flares all the time to hide it. Always had a jumper tied around my waist. There was this teacher at school with a prosthetic leg, the only other person that I knew and everyone was so cruel about him. And in hindsight, I think it's because maybe he wasn't that nice of a guy but I thought, oh, it's because he's got a disability and yeah when this coach had to take my leg off I thought I can't do that and I remember crying to my dad thinking I need to go home and he had a classic dad chat with me saying this is your opportunity sometimes whether you feel ready for it or not you just have to get in the arena and go for it and I remember having such an anxious night I don't know if anyone can relate when you're worried about something and you play it over in your head of how you think it's going to go and you think well that might happen that's probably going to happen and the next day I remember stood on the side of the court ready to take my leg off oh my god and then I did it no one cared like read the room it's full of so many people with missing bits and pieces and I just remember that moment so clearly that I was like okay now I'm not gonna let what ifs and self-doubt and my own insecurities let me limit my own goals or dreams like there are so many things in life whether it's like money issues barriers stereotypes biases other people and reasons that can stop you kind of dreaming big don't then be the one on top of that to be like the one holding you back like be your own hype man and go for it and i just think you tend to regret the things you don't go for apart from my did paralympians come down with me and came last for the terrible maybe regret that do you apply to go on you will you come down they asked me to come on it and i was like yeah sure i was gonna say twitter were really mean quite rightly i was terrible but there we go dead last honestly the guy who came forth was blind he was all like paralympians i was like i could have done anything I could have switched to salt and pepper anything and I didn't and he beat me so that's my one regret but I just think in general just go for it like that all better oops than a what if so mine would just be in those moment just hype yourself get in the arena don't wait for everything to be perfect don't wait to be bulletproof that would be my one.

58:21Sarah Ellis:Amy you are amazing and thank you for thanking for a complete start um so everyone just give us a minute we're gonna get maya and we're gonna get to maim back on stage and then we're gonna open it up we've got a little bit time check we'll get kicked out um so hands up if you've got a question for our guests this is your time to ask we will we'll be around with the microphone what is one of the best pieces of advice that you've ever been given mine was from my joyous father-in-law uh 25 years ago and he said whenever you walk into an interview you stand tall and so whenever you feel like you need to be more confident just make yourself stand tall and I think Maya you touched on that when we closed our eyes earlier so best piece of advice thanks Amy what best piece of advice you've ever had I'm a sucker for a good quote um I guess off the top of my head and it's it's quite basketball

59:13Amy Conroy:related but um it started because when I first saw wheelchair basketball on tv and they were these confident, powerful, talented players. And I was just the polar opposite. But something in me, some spark was like, I want to be that. There was this German woman in particular. And I was like, I don't know. Do I want to be you? Do I want to marry you? And I was just obsessed with her. And fast forward a bunch of years and finally made the team. And we played against them at the same tournament and we beat the Germans. And I remember outscoring her and there's a photo of me and I look like an absolute dick.

59:41Amy Conroy:I'm looking down at her on the floor. And I just, it's just a quote that trains so hard until your idols become your rivals and I think it's like how you said with your ambition and it's just like dream so big and just go for it and give everything

59:55Sarah Ellis:and spoiler alert turns out I did actually fancy her as well as that so it was ticked all the boxes it's probably another quote for that yeah it's such a good question I'd love to get your perspective

1:00:06Maya Raichoora:best piece of advice um I mean there's so many I guess like the one that has made the most transformational impact in my life is that all of us are born very very unique but most of us die a copy of someone else and I think coming back to that thing of authenticity it's so easy to just especially in a world of AI right everyone's copying each other so really come back to like yeah life isn't about just having more things and copying it's about being more more of who you are and like wear your shells and your scars with like so much ownership and attitude because no one

1:00:45Helen Tupper:can replace you don't let anyone kind of put you in a box or tell you what you can and can't do um my co-host damien from the making money podcast he was he had a job he was getting like almost 100 a year working full-time and he's like it's locked down he's like i want to start a youtube channel and everyone's like dude you've got a great job it's a big risk don't do it like youtube you're Most of them fail. And he said, I'm going to do it. And then he did it while he was doing his job. And then he said, I'm going to quit my job. Everyone was like, don't do it. It's too much of a risk. He quit his job.

1:01:13Helen Tupper:And now he's like one of the biggest finance YouTubers in the country. And he's got a huge channel. So I would say, don't let anyone put you in a box. When I worked in the city, I was a broker. They said, you've got to cut your hair because it's not professional for the clients. You've got to have short hair. That's how we move in this company. And I cut my hair. And then when I left, my dad said, yeah, cut your hair. You look so good. It's nice and smart. because he used to be, he worked at Maryland. So he's like, he still wears suits to this day and he doesn't even work anymore. So once I left that job, I was like, I'm not going to let anyone tell me like how I need to look, how I need to present myself.

1:01:46Helen Tupper:You need to work in this industry. You need to do that. People will limit you based on, like you said, their perspectives and never take, finally never take advice from someone who hasn't done it. So if someone's, if you want to open a YouTube or you want to get this job, don't ask someone for advice who's never done it because they'll be like, don't do it. It's too risky. you can't do it but you need someone who's actually done it to ask them and then they'll

1:02:07Sarah Ellis:give you good advice so yeah amazing thank you two things if that's all right one just a massive thank you for amy and maya and to main for being here thank you so much we really really appreciate people giving us their time and their generosity and sharing these stories with us for the benefit of the squiggly crows community so like massive massive thank you for us and also thank you to everyone here who has come tonight who has supported us who clicked on posts and shared lobsters and done everything like we hugely appreciate that and there's just one little ask that's okay before you leave and i know some of you might need to get trains and whatever um can we get a picture of you holding up your books john our lovely photographer here um this is a very last thing thank you because this is probably the most lobsters we've seen in a room so far and so we want to capture it to inspire other people john can you I may be, yeah Thanks everybody Books Does everybody have their books out?

1:03:04Sarah Ellis:Books out Lobsters out Okay, here we go

1:03:09Timeyin Akerelethey:I'll show you a load One, two, three Books in the air Woohoo! Thank you so much for listening to today's episode We always really appreciate you choosing to spend time learning with us And we also wanted to say a very special thank you to everybody who has bought Learn Like a Lobster we know loads of you pre-ordered and then had to wait months until the book actually came and lots of you have bought it since it was released it makes a massive difference to us and we can't wait to hear what you think you can always email us we're helen and sarah at squigglycareers.com but that's everything for this week thank you so much for listening and we're back with you again soon

1:03:56Thank you.