The Power of Mattering: How to Feel Valued and Valuable in Your Career

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1:29And that is that our new book, Learn Like a Lobster, is now ready to pre-order. We think that learning is so important to people succeeding in their squiggly career, but we recognize that it is not easy to do. And so we wanted to inspire people to look differently at learning and we think that lobsters are the role model that we have been missing. We really, really appreciate it when people pre-order our book. It means that our book gets momentum and also you get it first. But we know it's a while before that book arrives and so anyone who pre-orders, we have got a special surprise. The surprise is the Learn Like a Lobster library and you will become a member of the library when you pre-order the book.

2:10In the library, you will find three live learning sessions with Sarah and me, one in October, November and December. There's lots of tools for you to try out and there's a community to connect with. So please, please, please pre-order Learn Like a Lobster now. Support squiggly careers and support your own career too. If you send your pre-order to hello at learnlikealobster.com, we'll be in touch with everything you need to know to join the library. So pre-order the book, send it to hello at learnlikealobster.com and we will be in touch with everything else. On to today's episode. Hi, I'm Sarah.

2:45And I'm Helen. And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Every week we borrow some brilliance from a person, a concept, a place, an object, even notoriously one week with marshmallows. And another week we did a chair. We did do a chair. And what we try to do, as abstract as that might sound, is turn that curiosity into really useful actions for you and your squiggly career. And so today we're going to talk about the concept of mattering and we're going to lean on a book that's come out quite recently by Zach Mercurio, a book I actually really enjoyed, but there has been another book on the same topic out recently.

3:23So clearly some mattering is becoming, I don't know, hopefully a slightly more common conversation. And we wanted to bring some of the insights to you in today's episode and help you think about what mattering might mean for you and your team. If you are a leader or a manager, I think this is particularly important. Some of the ideas we're going to talk about. And then we're going to give you some specific actions for how you can increase mattering. Excellent. Good to go. Let's go. Shall we define mattering first of all? So again, I borrowed this from the book and it says that mattering is the experience of feeling significant to those around us.

4:00Sarah, for example. Because we feel valued and know that we add value. And as I've kind of gone through this and Sarah and I have talked, I just keep coming back to that. Like, do I feel valued and am I valuable? Like if you want a - Valued and valuable, I think it's memorable. If you want a shortcut to what mattering means, valued and valuable is probably like the thing to keep in your mind. And the reason it matters is because it enhances our self-esteem. so when you feel like you matter you believe you deserve to be there to be in the team to be on the project to have the job kind of the opposite of imposter syndrome yeah yeah if imposter syndrome is i feel like i'm going to get found out then self-esteem is i feel like i have a right to be here um and so when you when you get a sense of mattering you feel that right um the other thing is it enhances self-efficacy, which is a belief that you can do it.

5:01Not just that you have the right to be here, but a belief that you are going to do a good job. You've got the skills, you've got the knowledge, you are able to do a good job. It's those two things, self-esteem and then self-efficacy that you get when it feels like you matter. And I asked you this question and you had already preempted it. How is it different to belonging? Because I think it would be easy to mix those two up, but I think they are quite different when you start to get into it in a bit more detail so belonging they are different so belonging is where you feel like you're accepted in a group so accept me i do accept i feel like you belong you belong to me but you feel like you know you're you're i want to belong to you that sounds like ownership i own you i know um you can try so if we take this idea of ownership out of it yeah it feels sort of like you're you're in a group situation let's say in a team and you feel like you're in the right place, you're with the right people, that's belonging and it's definitely a nice thing to have.

5:59But mattering goes further because mattering is where you feel significant. So it's not just, I feel like this is a good group for me to be in, I feel like I fit in this group. It goes beyond that and I make a difference. I make a difference to this group. I feel like by being here, I add value, which goes back to the mattering point there. I'm trying to work out whether... how interdependent the two things are. You know, can you belong without mattering? Can you matter without belonging? And I suspect those things can be true. Well, so if you think about mattering... Obviously, in the best case scenario, you have both of them.

6:37Yeah, ideally. So I guess the question would be, have you in your career had a moment where you felt significant to a team or a company, but you didn't feel like you belonged in it? Yeah, I think I have. Yeah. So I think those things, they don't, I suppose your ideal is that you have both of those things. That's probably how you have the most enjoyable week at work and have the most impact in your week at work. But I suppose one of those can be true when the other one is not true. I think. I was actually thinking like just to give a specific example. I think when I worked for BP, I felt like I was doing a significant job.

7:20like I was making a difference and I was contributing like value but I didn't always feel like I kind of fit in yeah I think the profile of the people there was a little bit a little bit different maybe even at Capital One a little bit as well like because they kind of valued a particular intellect that wasn't mine I never felt like I quite belonged because I didn't have that intellect but I still felt like I was doing I was adding value yeah yeah so yeah I think You're right, you can do it. But the ideal, I guess, is you want both. I think the dream jobs are where you feel like you belong, so you feel like you're fitting and you're accepted, and you also feel valued and valuable.

7:57That's our kind of mattering sweet spot. And the payoff when you get to that sweet spot is the research shows that you get higher performance, you get higher kind of well-being at work, people are happier in their job. So we all feel better when it feels like we matter at work. And there is some research around this that highlights why this should be a priority conversation. Would you like to talk about the research? Well, I suppose some of it is kind of what happens when you don't have this, which I found interesting when Helen kind of shared this with me. So in the UK, 42 % of employees say they feel undervalued at work.

8:36And that's this idea of I don't feel kind of valuable. So I often think, well, what's the opposite of that? And that's probably feeling invisible. it's not it doesn't make that much difference that I'm here um you know like almost like no one would miss me if I wasn't here and you like feeling that way like I you know I don't make that much difference I think that's a just not a very nice feeling to go to work with every day but then also very hard to stay motivated if you kind of have that sense of like oh I'm I'm invisible it's a bit it's a bit irrelevant whether I'm kind of here or not here no one's going to notice if I'm not around then you sort of go well it's very hard then to be to be kind of really committed to what you're trying to do um and that 42 % I think feels like a really high number I think that is a number from 2025 um so it's quite a recent number um so I think that's I think that's quite a worrying stamp right for 10 people yeah to make it really real that means that four in 10 people listening to this podcast episode right now feel invisible at work which means they feel like they don't matter they say that's not true well I mean based on the research no but maybe because they listen to the squiggly careers podcast they've like really thought about their career and they're in amazing roles with lots of relevant impact I hope that is true as well but I think if you are one of those people because you're not alone you're not yeah I think that's really important if you are one of the people one of the you know four in ten people that feels invisible at work right now no you're not alone um know that you know other people are feeling like this too and know that hopefully by listening to this episode you'll be able to identify some different things you can do and also different things that you can support other people with as well so that you kind of create create more connection so we are going to just share a few reflections ourselves um on some sort of coaching questions to start with as you're thinking about sort of reflections on mattering in your career so far and then we're going to go through three areas that contribute towards mattering and that's where the ideas for action for you or for people that you work with will be.

10:42So the questions we thought are useful to reflect on are when have you had a high mattering moment in your career and when have you had a low mattering moment in your career and what can you learn from the two? So can I ask you? Of course, of course. So I have thought about this before, before anyone thinks, wow, they can just think of these examples on the spot. And actually, I think what's interesting about my example, it was in the same company. I went from a low mattering moment to a high mattering moment when I did a squiggle and stay move, when I kind of changed teams. And back to our reflection on the connection with belonging, I felt like I belonged in both teams.

11:22So I enjoyed being in both teams and I felt I could kind of be myself and I really enjoyed the people that I was working with. But I felt like I mattered a lot more in one role than in the other. and I think it goes back to that valued and valuable I think in that first role um this is when I was working for Barclays so for kind of a big bank very easy I think in a big company to feel like you don't matter but actually that hasn't been my experience I've had both experiences in big companies but I think in that first role where I didn't feel like I mattered as much I think it was a job that was maybe a bit of a nice to have job if I'm kind of honest and it was very hard for me I wasn't very senior and it was quite hierarchical for me to like really feel like anything that I did ever made a really big difference I was also working on like innovation that took a long time I couldn't see a lot of you know like fruits of my labor and I could work hard and then you know like you're working hard to do a powerpoint like I do think I had a job that was like I'm working hard on powerpoint slides and that is a bit demoralizing after a while and so I was like I I probably felt a bit valued like I I worked for a great leader who I loved so I felt a bit valued I didn't feel very valuable and that's probably why I wanted to squiggle and stay I then moved into a job where it was a brand new job brand new team and suddenly I was using all my skills all my strengths um I was making stuff happen a very different kind of style of role and really found my flow in that job and I felt both valued and valuable like I knew the work that I did like made a difference I could like see it it was almost like well if I didn't do it no one else was you know was going to do it it wasn't like anyone could do that job um and I was probably a very good fit for what that job kind of needed so it was a really contrasting experience and I do think it's always so interesting isn't it in like a big company I could have easily have left Barclays being like oh I'm like not enjoying my role um but actually I'm really glad that I stayed because I moved to a job that then I both belonged in and had that kind of mattering I think that I've had a few of those experiences in big companies and you know the mattering payoff is this kind of motivation well-being at work and performance in that second one where you felt a greater sense of mattering would you say that you had higher levels of those three yeah 100 across all of those I worked so hard because I loved it um I yeah I was I was really driven I worked harder you know um discretionary effort yeah my discretionary effort in that second job was massive compared to that first job and also it felt worth it the discretionary effort felt worth it and I was definitely performing better because I knew I know that from like the feedback that I was getting I think I you know I think I moved in like a more senior role and like so there was lots of kind of recognition of like the impact that I was having and I was a way better employee in that second job than I was in that first job.

14:17It's interesting my mindset is slightly different so my highest mattering moment or a very high one no no I say no no it's very high mattering but neither of us have actually chosen what we're doing today. That's true but that's not because it doesn't but a previous high mattering moment I would say was when I was at Virgin and I was launching Virgin Red and it was a high mattering moment for me. I definitely felt valuable. I mean, I felt valued because there weren't a lot of us starting that business. They had no one other than me. So I felt like we need Helen. If not me, then who? Exactly that.

14:52But I also felt valuable because I was bringing lots of like energy and ideas to it. So, and that was definitely a high mattering moment for me. I don't think that business would have made as much momentum as it had or actually have looked like it did without me yeah and and then my low-mattering moment I reflected I was like I was quite surprised by it was actually when I was at Microsoft and I really loved Microsoft so I feel like I have to caveat this moment but and I was thinking why did it feel like a low-mattering moment so why didn't I feel valued and or valuable and I think it was partly because of the team that I was in so there was Quite a lot of politics around what teams held the most power in the business.

15:34And I'm not sure mine did. And so I felt like I was in a team. Hard to matter. Yeah. I felt like as hard as I wanted to work and... Yeah, you wanted to matter. I wanted to matter and I wanted to do a good job. But I think the reality was at that time, the organizational dynamic was that the team in the area that I was working in, people were quite I don't know quite critical of and it was very hard to matter in a team that didn't feel like it was valued or valuable to the organization that was that was hard and I kind of I got to that reflection from these questions I hadn't really thought about it before I've done a few of those jobs though you know where in some companies there are those like nice to have jobs maybe less so now that you know companies have to work really hard to be efficient and effective but particularly like I think in big companies you know there are like the teams where that team really matters so you know we're talking about this at an individual level right but if you kind of go oh what teams matter most in that organization you know organizations have like a slant or like a dna and you're like well if it's a really operational company the operational teams matter most so naturally if you're in those kind of roles it's probably easier yeah whereas i sometimes have done jobs that are new or a bit peripheral or a bit left field that I really wanted to do.

16:54But like you said, there's almost like, it doesn't matter how hard you work or how good you are, they're never going to be quite as important as like some of the other things. Yeah, yeah. And that's probably okay. It's just, I actually do remember feeling that in a few roles and almost spotting it and thinking, okay, how can I sort of take what I really enjoy about doing this? But is there an area where I could have more of an impact in terms of kind of mattering? And also knowing that your role is probably slightly more at risk because that has also definitely happened to me but I think I knew I always knew that and kind of made that choice being like this is a riskier role because it clearly doesn't matter as much as some of those other ones even if I thought it should I just know that it doesn't I think it's quite a useful reflection to think about kind of mattering and maybe use your past experience think about what you're doing right now and so ask yourself those questions I think it's good for good for your own insight but what we wanted to get into is sort of the the ingredients of mattering and it is really interesting and based on so zach mccurray's work in his book he talks about three things that kind of add up to how much people feel like they matter so the first one is noticing so people feel like they are they matter to a team and an organization when they feel noticed and so that is not just someone who's ticking off you know tasks but they feel like they are noticed as like a human being like you you know who I am not just what I do so that's the first thing people feel like you know their values are known and they're sort of recognized as an individual at work so that's the first thing do people feel noticed an individual level the second thing is affirmed so this is about do people feel like they're adding value do they feel like they are recognized and affirmed by other people as adding as in value and then the third one is do people feel needed so do they feel like they're they you know if not me then who yeah it's that it's that sense so what we wanted to talk about was these three areas of kind of being noticed and being affirmed and being needed and to share some sort of practical ideas for what this might look like at work and these ideas they're not actually from the book they're kind of me and Sarah thinking about out of our head yeah out of our head based on like I think the company that we run our amazing if and the work that we've done what do we think works for noticing being affirmed and making people feel needed should we start with noticing yeah yep and so the ideas here we've actually done an episode on noticing where we talked about why we think this is a bit of a secret career skill yeah secret career skill that no one talks about but if you want people to feel like they matter average day or average week at work we would say start to notice how people are showing up in meetings it's like a really simple way to make people feel seen and heard and there are loads of things that you can look out for like if you've really got like a noticing filter on in a meeting you might notice that someone's engagement in that meeting is slightly different to normal and you might ask them a question like so i had this happen to me did you i did so someone on our team who did a good job of noticing so we had spent some time in meetings together in a week and that's not unusual we would normally spend time together and she said to me um oh I've noticed that meetings with you have felt a bit different this week um now I was in a different place and in quite a different headspace to like a normal week um and so I was sort of half on holiday like my partner and my son were on holiday but I was sort of working where we were and um I think basically I had probably shown up and she was like oh you've been very sort of you've taken more of a coaching approach this week to our conversations than probably normally whereas normally I'm probably a bit more like we've got to get this action done I think it's what we need to do probably more directive so more directive versus coaching and I was like oh she'd noticed that and then also taking the time to tell me so I felt very noticed like noticed and I think some of that had been effort but I think if she hadn't told me that that she'd noticed that I probably wouldn't have had it as enough of a reflection to do anything differently yeah because it did make me think it's not that I think being directive is always wrong but I thought well I don't only want to take a coaching approach when I happen to half be on holiday you know because I'm probably more I'm more relaxed I'm very calm I hadn't got as much going on that week and so it did make me then think oh that that is a way that I can be valuable you know back to like am I valued and valuable she really valued that coaching approach for me that week she was essentially saying in a much nicer way I found that really useful and perhaps sometimes more useful than you just being really directive you know as in she felt like she'd learned more from me she'd felt very supportive she was kind of very positive about the impact it had had on her and so it did make me think okay I don't want to rely on that only happening very infrequently how can I take more of a coaching approach if that is valuable and also something I enjoy doing what would that look like more frequently so I thought I was good noticing it's very good noticing also quite a nice link I think to last week's episode on resting which is maybe the better that you rest the more in that mode you yeah yes yeah versus we need to get these things done now it needs to get done also i think that you when you shared that example the fact that someone said i've noticed that i think that is the easiest way to take this action like thinking i just say i've noticed that um you were trying to say something in the meeting and you didn't quite get you finish your thought would you like to share it or i've noticed that you're kind of really emotive about that point i'm always listening when people say um i absolutely love that or particularly I listen for the hate sometimes I when I'm like having career conversations with people um and I'm just like listening and listening and they'll say I really hated that job and I'm like that's an unusual level of a statement it's a strong statement like people saying hate that work so I would be like oh I noticed that you used the word hate when you talked about dot dot dot um I'd love to hear a little bit more about that but literally just use the statement i've noticed that and people feel seen and heard more than if you're not saying that and that's what this point is really all about like people feel seen and heard at work tell me we're not gonna have to do some positive affirmations now so the affirmations about mantras at work no no it's okay okay good so the affirmation really is about recognising what people do well, but in a meaningful way.

23:34And there's a really interesting point in the book about this sort of difference between recognition and affirmation. Like there are different things. We do something in Amazing If, which we call squiggly shout outs, which are where we will, we might do this in a meeting or we might do it on Microsoft Teams, which we call a squiggly shout out. And it is where we are intentionally calling out what someone has done well. But we thought we would talk about squiggly shout outs and how they might differ from just recognition to affirmation. And we're trying to get to this level of affirmation in order for it to feel like someone matters.

24:17so like level one squiggly shout out is just recognition which might sound like um helen like great job this week i know you've worked really hard okay great great i might fall i might feel praised by that but it's not enough to make someone feel like they matter so let's go to a kind of like a level two squiggly shout out what would that sound like um helen thanks for all your hard work on presentations for our partners this week i thought you showed great initiative on putting together all the data and the information we need needed like thanks for that okay so that that feels better to me like i listen to that i think you it feels a bit more personal it feels you know a bit more detailed so i definitely feel better so that's a level two squiggly shout out and level three is the level of affirmation which is is what matters most to people when they feel like they matter so if you were doing a level three squiggly shout out what would that sound like so that would be um helen like thanks for all your hard work this week one of the things that makes you uniquely useful at amazing if is your ability to anticipate what our learning partners need before they even know it for themselves and that is such a brilliant skill and i really see that kind of show up across everything that you do and particularly this week in that presentation you sent to our partner you sent them some things they hadn't asked for but I know they're going to find really helpful now I feel like amazing I'm like I did a really good job I'm really useful I'm really valuable and I think the the statement that I would copy from what Sarah said there is uniquely useful like uniquely useful because this this idea of someone feeling affirmed is where they feel like they have made it like a unique and valuable contribution we talked before about the brilliant because I thought what you did was really brilliant because could be another way that you could get into that um or sometimes i was talked about um i might say to our team oh it's it's a real sarah super strength when you the point of affirmation is it's it's something that that individual has done that other people hadn't done or couldn't do that is sort of like a unique contribution from them that's the level you're trying to get at so it's not just well done good job we've got to go a little bit further if We want people to feel, you know, really affirmed, appreciated and feel like their contribution matters.

26:44And I don't think you have to go overboard, right? It would be a bit overkill if you were like all the time trying to get into this like deep level of affirmation. But I think it is just spotting opportunities for when that is that is relevant. Sometimes I think a squiggly shout out that is just like that was brilliant because it's fine. but I do think there are moments where people do work where you think oh it's because of who you are and what makes you valuable that's why that has been so good um and that's though you don't want to miss those moments to tell people that because I think you know remembering most people are their own worst critics like when I ask people that in workshops they're always like yeah I think so many people give themselves a hard time and it's really easy to assume that people know that they matter because you're like well obviously because they're amazing at data analysis and like look at the good impact that have you you might just be thinking that but I think just don't underestimate the importance of like saying it as well I think again if you want to make this really easy on the point I'm noticing I think it's I've noticed that on on this point with affirmation I'd either go with it's uniquely useful as a way into it or I'd use someone's strengths because that feels like a very normal conversation you've got a real super strength or I really see this dot dot dot strength when you um because I think the strengths feel personal they feel really ownable for somebody so just an easy way into if you've never thought about these conversations before that might be a quick way to remember it needed you're going to tell me why you need me would you like to yeah you're a bit needy sometimes i know i am but that's not the point the point around needed people people want to feel like they are needed and it was interesting when we were reflecting on well how do you how do you say that someone's needed at work um the opposite to this is a bit of a watch out because i think we might say this without meaning to make someone feel not needed.

28:32But you know when people go on holiday or they're, I don't know, they're going on, they can't make a meeting. Let's say they can't make a meeting because they're in another meeting or they're on holiday or they've gone on maternity leave and you want to take the pressure off them. That's the intent. So you say to them, oh, don't worry. Don't worry, Sarah. Like you go away, have a break. We'll be absolutely fine without you. You don't need to worry about anything. That is like a red flag to someone feeling like they are replaceable. And there's quite a nice quote in the book, actually, which says like if if people feel like they're replaceable they will act like they are replaceable well i don't matter what's interesting well i don't matter what's the point anyway i definitely say that to people because i'm from a really positive place of trying to get people to take a break yeah or to i think i'm doing it to try and reassure someone like of course it's going to be okay that you're on holiday because you know we will do the things that need to make happen and like that's okay or or especially if someone is you know in that more vulnerable moment of you on paternity or paternity leave being like oh but don't worry you know we were we were we were okay before and we'll just we'll be brilliant when you get back I have definitely said those things but you know when you put this filter on it you're like oh gosh that that probably doesn't feel very nice that probably feels like oh I'm not that significant they don't they don't really need me after all they're just gonna you know go back to the way it was before me yeah it's quite hard what do you say instead because I do still want people to because I do think the intent is genuinely positive like I do want people to take a break so is it more about saying well obviously we're really going to miss you it makes a difference that you're not here yeah yes so I think what you might do that I think there's like a before and an after the moment that that person isn't in that you can still make them feel needed so I think you can say oh Sarah I really want you to have a good break um the thing that is really useful is like the the questions that you ask in the meeting or the way you kind of keep us focused and could you maybe have a look over this before you go so i make sure that you are your input is in the meeting okay yeah i was actually in a board meeting this week where the chair of the meeting someone couldn't come and on multiple times the chair said i just want to add in this perspective and the person that couldn't come nice and they would have known that they were still valuable in that meeting even when they couldn't have been in so i think you can do that beforehand like don't worry like go have your break enjoy yourself I would still really like your contribution is there any chance you could give me some questions so I can bring that in yeah or after the meeting I think you could say to somebody um uh hope you had a great holiday I really want to run by a couple of things that happened where you were when you were off because I really need your input on this I think you know it would be a real miss if we didn't bring you into it so I think you can kind of cover the moment that someone might be missing and make still make them feel like they are needed and valuable to it I was just thinking you know there's there's also probably a point if I was being critical of myself is like if you are a bit needy um to you know like also you have to sometimes like let things go a bit you know like the other side of the other side of this is like I'm just imagining I'm like oh god it sounds like quite hard work for you to have to tell me before I go for a break and then when I come back like oh Sarah you know you do matter I'm like oh I forgot there's also a bit of like oh Sarah like get over yourself like obviously you make a difference so maybe if you you know like because I was saying to you beforehand the reason I say this is I've I said oh sometimes I haven't always felt that needed in amazing if and you were like shocked you were like what do you mean and I was saying well you know sometimes I definitely have had a holiday or perhaps been away ill or not been around um and you probably do say to me like don't worry I've got it and then I probably do come back and be like well she has sort of got it so you know like you don't you don't feel as needed but I am somebody who does I probably quite like to feel needed so that's probably harder for me but I'm like do I really need you to then start like telling me you matter I'm like probably not it's probably a bit of like just recognition though you know like based on your own I think I got used to over lots of years you know when you work in like bigger companies and you get there's more like recognition it's It's quite ladder-like thinking, some of those sorts of things.

32:42And I think I've had to just get used to my own self-worth a bit and not needing other people to tell me that I am valuable. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to get into a meta conversation about need, but I do wonder whether saying what I need and value for you, because you might think, oh, I'm not valuable because Helen's, I don't know, put something on LinkedIn without approving it with me or whatever. and I'm like well yeah but that's not what I need for me what I really need and value from you yeah is our connections and our conversations and our ideas and our debate and that and you're like oh and you know if you have that conversation with people in your team about what I really need and value from you is and I wonder how often those conversations happen like what I need from you and what I value from you is I think maybe you'd get to like a deeper level of understanding from people i don't use that word very often you know if you were saying the hard thing about um which is a phrase that we sometimes use which is quite good just to like stress test ideas i think and i think we should all be open to saying the hard thing you know you said um about jobs if they feel if you feel if jobs feel replaceable you feel like you can just be replaced but i guess there is also a bit of a reality check of like most people and jobs are replaceable like i remember having that advice from people like remember like no one person you know no one person runs a company no well everyone is replaceable to like an extent so I do think there's perhaps also a bit of a point of like you you do matter I was thinking about what's that um phrase enmeshment so I'm like oh there's an interesting like gray line here I think between going you definitely want to feel like you matter valued and valuable but what you don't want it to turn into is enmeshment which is when all of your self-worth and your self-efficacy is all tied up in you matter so much in the job that you do that then if something changes that is outside of your control it's like a real it's a real shock to you and i think i have seen that happen where it goes too far yeah where it goes where I think people would say they belong it the mattering was so high they felt valued and valuable but then they sort of forgot that sense of perspective and it did it kind of merged into enmeshment and then actually you know things change even though their jobs might have felt irreplaceable then they turned out actually we don't need that team anymore I mean maybe this is a new thing but I'm seeing a spectrum of course you are seeing a spectrum it's either a spectrum or a matrix this is the way our brain works but you've got like meaningless mattering and enmeshment yeah and meaningless is not good because no it will feel completely you don't and they will act you know act like that way mattering is the aim because that's where we get motivation well-being and performance but if it goes too far you get enmeshment which is where people are basically not very resilient to change because they feel like a change to the companies are changed to them and the highs of those of work affect them so it's interesting I mean the work hasn't gone that far but yeah that's my brain it's just Sarah's brain taking it to kind of the next level of thought but if we bring it back to the middle ground of mattering and maybe we just kind of summarize what we've talked about on the podcast so mattering is where you feel valued and valuable and the benefits when we get this right at an individual level are I am more motivated my well-being is likely to be in a better place and I'm likely to perform at a higher level it is perhaps more important now than it has ever been because of that that stat that we shared about four in ten people feel invisible at work so this does feel like an important thing to reflect on and support people with and if you want to make people matter more there are three things that we want to focus on so the first is do people feel like they are being noticed so they feel like they're seen and heard the second is do people feel like they're being affirmed so they know that they are uniquely useful and then a third area that contributes to mattering is do people feel needed which is you know I think just having that conversation about like what I value and need from you is and maybe the more that we do that the more that people know what that need looks like rather than kind of assuming that they are or aren't needed at work quite deep reflection Yes, I feel like we went quite deep.

37:13But I mean, it's quite a deep and important topic. But I think if you can have this conversation as a team, maybe it's not so much a team conversation. I feel like maybe this one's maybe more a peer-to-peer. Do you feel like you're mattering at work on these three areas? What's working well? I think if you've got a good relationship with your manager, I can imagine it in a career conversation. It feels like it could stray into that sort of territory. It could be quite good with a mentor. You know, if you feel like you don't matter. So if you were, because that stat is high, right? So the opposite to kind of what I just said is like, well, if you're one of the four in 10, that's not very sustaining.

37:46You don't want to stay in that position for too long. And maybe your manager or your team might be part of that. So they might not be the right people to have a conversation with. So then I think I would be thinking about like who else, given I don't feel valued or valuable or kind of one of those isn't in the right place. I think I'd be looking for some mentoring some career conversations with people either in other parts of my organization if that's big enough to do that or kind of outside of my organization because you know sometimes I think when I have been in those positions talking to some other people does remind you that like where I am now is not where I have to be forever and it can give you those glimmers of okay this is not great at the moment but it is possible to be in a role where I will matter more.

38:31I think you could also ask for some strengths-based feedback. So when do you see me at my best? Because if people, maybe you're not proactively getting some of that affirmation. And so what you might need to do is just, you know, ask for some of it. What skills are most valuable? What skills do you see that are most valuable in our team or in our organisation? Because that's also quite interesting because I might say, well, these are the strengths that I want to stand out. These are the strengths that I want to be known for. And that's fine. that's up to you to make those choices and to make those strengths stronger but you might then also say to me and some of the strengths i've seen you or the skills that you've got that are particularly valuable are xyz some of those might be the same but some of them might be different yeah and that's quite useful just data for my development i think i think i'd find that i think some of the things that you would say to me are useful about me are not the things i want to be known for but that's also okay yeah because it would help me to know oh but it does that just i'm needed yeah help me I am having a positive impact.

39:27So yeah, if you're one of the four in 10, maybe just, you know, what makes me uniquely useful to the team? When do you seem at my best? What's the value that I bring? Go and get some of that if it's not naturally coming to you so that you can get some of the insight that can help you feel like you matter if you're not getting that data at the moment. But that's everything for this week. We hope you found the episode useful. Any feedback, we'd love you to email us. We're helenandsarahatsquigglycareers.com or you can find anamazingif.com, which is our website, all of our previous skill sprints, loads of free tools and actions and all the old podcast episodes, about 500 or so, that you can catch up on if you're looking for some extra career inspiration.

40:05And don't forget that we now do two episodes every week. So we have our longer Borrowed Brilliance episodes on a Tuesday, which is an episode like this one. And then on a Thursday, we have Squiggly Shortcuts. They're just five minutes long. They focus on a very specific topic. We cram in lots of ideas for action. So if you subscribe to Squiggly Careers wherever you listen, and it will make sure that you don't miss out on those episodes. That's everything for this week. We'll see you again soon. Bye for now. Bye, everyone.

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