In short
The episode argues that renewed left- and right-wing attacks on the Declaration of Independence (and its “self-evident truths” about equal unalienable rights) are intellectually one-sided and politically dangerous, and that universities have failed to teach the Declaration as living civic principles.
Guests and backgrounds
Peter Berkowitz, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution (Washington, D.C.), former State Department head of policy and planning; previously taught political philosophy and government at Harvard. Stephen Haber, Stanford professor of political science, history, and economics.
Key claims
The U.S. has uniquely endured for 250 years as a rights-based nation, despite slavery’s founding reality and later struggles. Critics on the postmodern progressive left claim the Declaration obscures slavery and enables domination; post-liberal right critics reject natural rights as abstract and harmful. Berkowitz argues both sides ignore “neglected truths” within the founding principles and underestimate rights-protecting democracies and limited government. He also blames higher education for producing “rage to criticize” and for curricula that avoid required study of founding principles.
Notable examples
Catherine McKinnon (radical feminism/consent), critical race theory’s “structural racism” claims, Patrick Deneen’s “Why Liberalism Failed” (retreat to small communities, later aristocracy+populism), and Adrian Vermeule’s “common good constitutionalism.” Haber adds data: from ~1980 to now, private-university boards of trustees have shifted left (median centrist; fewer strongly conservative members), with liberal boards selecting more liberal presidents and provosts.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOOverview of the Declaration's Impact
0:45 to 1:58
Exploring the enduring principles of the Declaration and its challenges today.
“a multi-religious, multi-ethnic nation built on this principle, has expanded freedom, legal equality, and prosperity in ways unprecedented in human history.”
Introducing Peter Berkowitz
1:58 to 4:12
Introduction of Peter Berkowitz and Stephen Haber, setting the stage for discussion.
“Our next session is going to feature a talk by our colleague Peter Berkowitz, who is the Tad and Diana, Diane Tobey Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution stationed in Washington, D.C.”
Critiques of the Declaration's Principles
4:12 to 7:09
Discussion of contemporary critiques of the Declaration from both the left and right.
“My short answer to the question is new things have to be said in response to new criticisms.”
America's Educational Failures
7:09 to 10:34
Examination of how educational systems contribute to misunderstandings of American principles.
“The American journey from 1776 to 2026 has been marked by the struggle, almost defined by it, to honor more fully the Declaration's promise of equality and fundamental rights.”
The State of Liberal Education
10:34 to 14:00
Analysis of the current state of liberal education and its departure from traditional principles.
“by allowing them to choose their own courses and design their own curricula.”
Critique of Current Education Methods
14:00 to 17:40
Explore the shortcomings of modern social sciences and education in teaching foundational American principles.
“that a person who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that.”
The Importance of Critical Thinking
17:40 to 19:44
Discuss the evolving meaning of critical thinking and its implications for understanding ethics and politics.
“I want to talk now about, and specifically about, new criticisms of the Declaration.”
Classical Perspectives on Justice
19:44 to 21:38
Analyze Plato and Mill's contributions to understanding justice and the flaws in common perceptions.
“In Book One of the Republic, Plato's Socrates exposes the limitations of three familiar opinions about justice.”
Contemporary Critiques of Founding Principles
21:38 to 28:00
Delve into the criticisms of America's founding principles from both the postmodern left and post-liberal right.
“For example, it is usually just to keep promises, but sometimes returning what is owed would harm the recipient.”
Critique of Foundational Principles
28:00 to 29:10
Exploration of flaws in foundational American principles as critiqued by Deneen and Vermeule.
“The fundamental flaws of the principles on which our nation is based.”
Show all 24 chapters
The Discourse on Rights and Governance
29:10 to 31:40
Discussion on how American principles inform governance and the challenges faced by conservatives and progressives.
“In common good constitutionalism, Vermeule agrees with Deneen.”
Re-examining the Declaration of Independence
31:40 to 34:50
Importance of the Declaration of Independence in contemporary discussions about rights and governance.
“the nation's Declaration of Independence set forth 250 years ago.”
The Role of the Commission on Unalienable Rights
34:50 to 38:00
Overview of the Commission's formation and its role in promoting America's founding principles amidst social unrest.
“to ensure that college students gain an understanding of America's founding principles and constitutional traditions.”
Founding Principles and Human Rights
38:00 to 41:30
Connection between America's founding principles and the evolution of human rights in foreign policy.
“The prefatory note addresses the civic unrest and social convulsions that rocked the nation following the May 2020 murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis city police officers.”
Challenges to Human Rights Today
41:30 to 42:00
Examination of modern challenges to human rights and the importance of sovereign nation states.
“to America's dependence in 2026 as a great power in a deeply interconnected world on a multiplicity of alliances and partnerships.”
Challenges to American Human Rights Policy
42:00 to 42:46
Learn about the various challenges and considerations in American human rights policy.
“Americans were compelled to give more thought to the proper place of human rights in a responsible U.S.”
Diplomatic Engagement and Human Rights
42:46 to 44:19
Explore significant diplomatic efforts related to human rights and education.
“Part five offers concluding observations.”
The Role of Education in Upholding Principles
44:19 to 46:18
Understand how education is crucial for maintaining the principles of the Declaration of Independence.
“In 2022, Glendon and I continued the commission's work by discussing the commission's report at the inaugural meeting of the G20 religious forum in Bali.”
Critique of Liberal Education in Universities
46:18 to 48:58
Analyze the shortcomings of how liberal education is taught in universities.
“Thank you, Peter, for that wonderful presentation.”
The Role of Faculty and Governance in Education
48:58 to 55:01
Examine the influence of faculty and university governance on education direction.
“Where I am going to pull on a thread is on why this happened.”
Board Influence on University Direction
55:01 to 56:00
Discover how university boards may shape educational philosophies and practices.
“I am not suggesting that boards of trustees are dominated by wild, progressive thought.”
Analyzing Board Composition Changes in Universities
56:00 to 1:01:10
Learn about the shift in political ideology among university boards over the decades.
“Now, I did something that Peter cautions against in his paper when he says there's too much evidence on measuring and weighing.”
Civic Education and Political Discourse at Stanford
1:01:10 to 1:03:02
Explore the efforts to restore civic education and the challenges faced in academic discourse.
“He should actually get the Nobel Prize for political genius because he somehow has convinced the Stanford Faculty Senate this is a good thing.”
Reflections on University Reform and Curriculum
1:03:02 to 1:04:46
Hear perspectives on the challenges of reforming university curricula to emphasize foundational principles.
“I want to thank Steve, and I want to note for the record that I can't remember what I regard as a more friendly amendment to a paper position I've given.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Peter Berkowitz:This is a special episode of Stanford Legal, a recording from one of the many special discussions that take place here at Stanford. Keep following the feed for our regular programming.
0:26Welcome to The Declaration at 250, a special series from the Stanford Constitutional Law Center, presented by Stanford Legal. I'm Michael McConnell. The Declaration of Independence proclaims a revolutionary idea that all people possess equal and unalienable rights. For two and a half centuries, the American experiment, a multi-religious, multi-ethnic nation built on this principle, has expanded freedom, legal equality, and prosperity in ways unprecedented in human history. Yet today, the Declaration's core principles face renewed criticism from unexpected quarters, Progressive scholars argue its language obscured the reality of slavery and justified cultural domination.
1:12Voices on the New Right reject the very concept of natural rights as dangerously abstract or historically naive. In this episode, Peter Berkowitz, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, takes on these contemporary critiques directly. He restates the Declaration's foundational ideas in clear terms, examines the intellectual merit of recent objections, and explores what the Declaration's logic means for American political life and U.S. engagement with the world today. He will be in conversation with Stanford professor Stephen Haber, a scholar in political science, history, and economics. In an era of polarization and historical revisionism, can the Declaration's principles still command our allegiance?
1:59Let's find out. Our next session is going to feature a talk by our colleague Peter Berkowitz, who is the Tad and Diana, Diane Tobey Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution stationed in Washington, D.C. He's a former head of policy and planning at the State Department, has lectured widely both in the United States and in a number of foreign countries about the principles of American constitutionalism. Former, used to teach political philosophy and government at Harvard University and And along with Peter is Professor Stephen Haber. He is a, he basically, we don't need multidisciplinary studies when you have Steve Haber on the podium because he teaches political science, history, and economics.
3:05And so I'd like to welcome Peter Berkowitz and Steve Haber to the podium. I see Steve. Where is Peter? There he is. So please, please join me in welcoming Peter Berkowitz and Steve Haber. And they're going to be addressing an interesting problem. And for much of American history, I think it could be said that there was broad consensus that they at least got the principles right at the beginning. and the question is how do we live up to them. The question was application. But more recently, on both the left and the right, there is at least a more noticeable, maybe more strident criticism that maybe the founding principles were wrong from the beginning.
4:03And that is the topic that Peter and Steve are going to be addressing for us. Thank you, Michael, for the opportunity to talk about the Declaration, what new can be said. My short answer to the question is new things have to be said in response to new criticisms. Here's my longer answer. With the signing of the Declaration of Independence 250 years ago, America's founders accomplished something new under the sun. They brought into existence a nation-state based on the belief that human beings are equally endowed with unalienable rights, the rights inherent in all human beings. This year marks another achievement for the Declaration.
4:56Never before has a nation dedicated to unalienable rights endured for 250 years. And not only has the United States endured, notwithstanding the social and political turbulence roiling the nation, no multi-religious, multi-racial, multi-ethnic nation state in human history has more successfully secured for its citizens freedom and equality under law, economic prosperity, and the ability to defend itself by projecting military power abroad. No small credit for the nation's enduring and flourishing, I think, goes to America's enduring principles. Yet in recent years, critics on both left and right have subjected the Declaration's central principles to harsh and strangely overlapping criticisms.
5:51Eminent figures associated with the postmodern progressive left accuse the Declaration's principles, the principles of freedom and equality, of obscuring, if not empowering, the evil institution of slavery. Meanwhile, prominent members of the post-liberal right charge that the self-evident truths set forth in the Declaration are neither true nor beneficial, but rather constitute the chief source of the multifarious maladies afflicting the nation. Postmodern progressives blamed those principles for the perpetuation of systemic racism. Post-liberal detractors condemned them for the systemic degradation of men and women of all races and ethnicities who live in the United States.
6:41both finding the Declaration's affirmation of universal rights a pretext for colonizing other countries, suppressing foreign cultures, and imposing America's ways and rules on other peoples and nations. And both indulge extravagant speculations about founding new forms of government untainted by the basic rights and fundamental freedoms promised by the Declaration. Let's take a step back. The American journey from 1776 to 2026 has been marked by the struggle, almost defined by it, to honor more fully the Declaration's promise of equality and fundamental rights. America has benefited from a common language, abundant natural resources, the protection afforded by vast oceans to the east and to the west, by peaceful and stable borders to the north and south for much of our history, and a moral and political heritage entwining biblical faith, classical thought, and the modern tradition of freedom.
7:47At the same time, America has been compelled to grapple with the legal institution of slavery at its founding and, despite the Civil War and the ratification of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, slavery's poisonous legacy, to wage war abroad repeatedly, and to reckon with the churn and turbulence generated by a free people and free markets. American citizens' appreciation of this complex and inspiring journey is waning. The nation's educational system bears heavy responsibility for the diminished understanding of the American experiment in order to liberty, for the loss of perspective concerning the merits and shortcomings, its merits and shortcomings, and for the popularity of extreme criticism emerging from both sides of the political spectrum.
8:39All levels of the American educational system have been derelict in their educational duties, but colleges and universities are especially to blame. They train K-12 teachers. American colleges and universities do advance the public interest in a variety of ways. They furnish pre-professional and professional education. They provide a credentialing service for employers. They train scholars. They conduct vital scientific research. And not least, they offer liberal education, the education for free citizens. Liberal education, however, is the least successful part of higher education these days.
9:25In recent years, reformers have justly given more attention to colleges and universities' impairment of free speech and the need to improve viewpoint diversity on campus. The disrepair of the curriculum also deserves attention. In most cases, colleges and universities believe themselves to comply with the imperative of liberal education by requiring students to fulfill distribution requirements. Rarely do the nation's leading institutions fire education mandate courses that all students must complete or identify substantive bodies of knowledge that all students must master. Instead, students meet their obligations by taking a few courses in the humanities, a few in the social sciences, and a few in the sciences, often picking and choosing among dozens of offerings.
10:17Two students Students can fulfill their distribution requirements without reading a single book in common. This from our colleges and universities point of view is not a problem, but rather a source of pride. They believe that they demonstrate their concern for students' individuality and uniqueness by allowing them to choose their own courses and design their own curricula. At the same time, by exposing students to a variety of disciplines and approaches to knowledge institutions of higher education claim to produce open-minded and well-rounded graduates expertly trained to lead once they graduate in changing the world.
10:59Apart from exemplifying liberal education its finest, colleges and universities' failure to impose structure on and give content, give coherent content to the curriculum, betrays it, betrays liberal education. liberal education's traditional aim is to cultivate students capable of exercising the rights and discharging the responsibilities of freedom. Such an education involves the organized introduction to an array of vital topics. Liberal education in America should be rooted in this study of American ideas and institutions, the nation's founding principles, constitutional traditions, cultural cross-currents, economic arrangements, and diplomatic and national security requirements.
11:47Since the nation was not born out of nothing, liberal education America must also concentrate on study of the great books and seminal events of the larger Western civilization from which the United States has emerged and to which it has made a decisive contribution. And since all serious moral and political study must be comparative, liberal education in America should include study of other peoples and nations, their language, their culture, their economic relations, their religious beliefs, and more. America's colleges and universities, though, have abandoned liberal education under the compulsion of three ideals.
12:29One is political, a second is methodological, a third is professional. When suitably refined, each of these ideals is a worthy ideal. However, contemporary academic life has radicalized all three to the great detriment of liberal education. First, contrary to liberal education's imperatives, many faculty members believe that their job is to instill correct views about the pursuit of social justice in America and enlist students in the cause of progressive transformation of politics and society. Liberal education in America, of course, should not be neutral toward fundamental political principles.
13:10It assumes, after all, the goodness of individual freedom and human equality. But to prepare students for freedom and democratic self-government, liberal education must exclude partisan politics from the classroom while fostering appreciation of contending views on fundamental moral and political questions. Yet many of today's classroom crusaders recognize no pedagogical duty to present fairly the other side of the argument. Some even believe themselves obliged, since classroom time is short, to ignore views, regardless of their historical significance and relevance to contemporary politics, that they deem distasteful, demeaning, or destructive.
13:53They are unaware of or unmoved by John Stuart Mill's indispensable observation in On Liberty, that a person who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. Second, contrary to liberal education's imperatives, many faculty members in the social sciences believe that the scientific method represents the one true approach to knowledge. While the application of the scientific method to the natural world has produced astounding increases in knowledge and know-how, the application of a method designed to account for matter and motion has been decidedly less successful when applied to the world of self-interpreting human beings.
14:38The conduct of social and political animals, that is our conduct, whose beliefs are formed in part by inherited custom and opinion, and whose actions are motivated by fallible human judgment about right and wrong, this conduct cannot be fully captured by methods designed to describe matter in motion. Nevertheless, setbacks in illuminating morality, politics, and society have driven many social scientists to double down on the study of method. Their bewitchment by techniques for counting, measuring, and weighing at the expense of the substance and texture of human affairs has produced disciplines that have less and less to say to citizens about self-government and justice, even as they elaborate more and more intricate methods for studying politics and society.
15:28Third, contrary to the imperatives of liberal education, many professors operate on the assumption that the purpose of undergraduate education is to train the next generation of scholars. Instead of drawing on their expertise to transmit to students the knowledge about America, the West, and the world needed for good citizenship, these professors provide intellectual tools and socialization into the sensibility and behavior required to succeed in the professoriate. Curricula that answer to the imperatives of liberal education would put the Declaration of Independence at the core. The Declaration states in lofty language the principles of freedom on which the United States was founded.
16:15The ideas, the principles that human beings are by nature free and equal. They are endowed with inalienable rights. The chief purpose of government is to secure these rights, and that among these is the right to alter or abolish governments that undertake to systematically deprive them of their basic rights and fundamental freedoms. Rare today, though, is the graduate of the nation's most selective colleges and universities who has been exposed to serious study of America's founding principles, the constitution that institutionalized these principles, and the political struggles throughout our history to realize them.
16:54Few of these students will be conversant with the major ideas and defining events of Western civilization, out of which emerged the American experiment in ordered liberty. And only a small number will have studied the culture, languages, economic systems, politics, and religious beliefs of another civilization, without which a well-rounded assessment of the United States is impossible. Not least among the costs of colleges and universities' betrayal of liberal education is it produces graduates ignorant of the principles and legacy of the Declaration and oblivious to the costs of that ignorance to themselves and the nation.
17:40I want to talk now about, and specifically about, new criticisms of the Declaration. But first, a few remarks about so-called critical thinking, which we specialize here at the university. Humanities and social sciences professors tend to regard critical thinking as the highest part of thinking, or even equate critical thinking with thinking itself. the apotheosis of critical thinking has spawned a rage to criticize. Among other deleterious effects of the rage to criticize are the comprehensive attacks from the postmodern progressive left and the post-liberal right on America's founding principles affirmed in the Declaration of Independence.
18:25All-worthy thinking about ethics and politics, of course, involves a critical component. The conviction that critical thinking represents the exercise of thinking, however, induces professors to concentrate exclusively on the defects of inherited beliefs, customary practices, and established institutions. It is one thing, though, to recognize that human beings are self-interested and fallible, that language is imprecise, ambiguous, and always open to interpretation and contestation, and that laws, institutions, and policies routinely fall short and rarely work is promised. It is quite another to insist that the principal task of thinking is to pinpoint people's and institutions' shortcomings and that the supreme intellectual accomplishment is to expose the wickedness of the civilization of which one is a part.
19:22Critical thinking should be combined with, there are terms for it, I prefer the term generous thinking. Grasping the needs met and purposes served by inherited beliefs, customary practices, and established institutions is also essential to understanding ethics and politics. Plato and John Stuart Mill, two great pioneers of liberal education, well understood that comprehending the merits of ideas and institutions is no less important than assessing their deficiencies. Some examples, quickly. In Book One of the Republic, Plato's Socrates exposes the limitations of three familiar opinions about justice.
20:04Some say that it consists in keeping promises. Others that it revolves around helping friends and harming enemies. And others still maintain that in practice, justice consists of nothing other than the advantage of the stronger. Justice really means might makes right. Socrates does not, as is commonly supposed, refute these opinions. Rather, he shows that each is inadequate, capturing aspect of justice, but misleading by purporting to state the whole truth about justice. To understand justice in its complexity and fullness, Plato's Republic teaches, it's necessary to understand why the most common opinions about it are partly true and partly false.
20:51Peter Berkowitz:Hi, this is Pam Carlin. I want to tell you about Amicus, Slate's weekly podcast about the U.S. Supreme Court, hosted by our friends Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern. It's officially the end of the term, and their perspectives on the Supreme Court are essential listening. In addition to their weekly episodes, they'll be doing special episodes about some of the most consequential decisions, sharing incisive analysis of the court with some of the smartest court watchers out there. Dahlia and Mark are there to make sure you truly understand what's going on and what we can do about it. For nearly 30 years, Slade has pulled back the curtain on the justice's motives.
21:24Peter Berkowitz:And with the court now rewriting American life as we know it, you need to know exactly what those decisions will mean for you and the people in your life. Listen now to Amicus. That's A-M-I-C-U-S, wherever you get your podcasts. For example, it is usually just to keep promises, but sometimes returning what is owed would harm the recipient. Especially in war, justice requires helping friends and harming enemies, but we make errors about who are our friends and enemies, and harming people leaves them less just. And although some of what goes by the name of justice in any given society serves the selfish interests of the powerful, the very notion of selfish interests reflects a conception of fairness and appropriateness that transcends short-term goals and love of dominion.
22:11John Stuart Mill showed a similar appreciation of the need for moral and political thinking to combine criticism and generosity. In his tribute to the progressive rationalist Jeremy Bentham, this was published in 1838, and in his tribute to conservative poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge, published in 1840, Mill argues that both thinkers, the progressive and the conservative, provided lessons crucial to understanding human affairs in modern society. Mill observed in his tribute to Bentham that to him, to Bentham it was, I quote now, Now, it was given to discern more particularly those truths with which existing doctrines and institutions were at variance, to Coleridge, the neglected truths which lay in them.
22:58In his tribute to Coleridge, Mill adds that both deserve the title Great Questioner of Things Established, Great Questioner of Things Established, but for questioning different aspects of established things. Quote,
23:41it has ever since been rendered continually credible, has seemed to a succession of persons to be a faithful interpretation of their experience. Leading postmodern progressive and post-liberal critics of America's founding principles do actually know how to think critically like Bentham and generously like Coleridge, but not as applied to the same set of beliefs, practices, and institutions. When it comes to America's founding principles, they discern nothing but intellectual fraud and political injustice. Concerning their preferred blueprints for fashioning novel institutional arrangements or for restoring past glories, however, they see faithful expression of human emancipation and flourishing.
24:33The postmodern progressive critique of America's founding principles derives in large measure from Karl Marx and his 20th century Frankfurt School acolytes. This is not to say that the postmodern progressives have studied Marx or heard of the Frankfurt School, or to deny the often subterranean influence of Nietzsche, Heidegger, and Karl Schmidt, along with Derrida, Lacan, and Foucault, but with its characteristic conviction that ideological blinders hide the nation's systemic injustices, its telltale terminology of oppressor and oppressed, and its utopian version of fundamental moral and political transformation that overcomes injustice and ends oppression, postmodern progressivism betrays its debt to Marx's enormously influential repudiation of political and economic freedom.
25:25Like Marx, postmodern progressives overlook the self-correcting powers of rights-protecting democracies, the benefits of limited government, and the disadvantages of concentrated state power. The postmodern progressive critique comes in several versions. Here at the law school, people will be especially aware of critical legal studies theorists who argue that far from serving freedom and equality, the American system of equal rights under law rationalizes and insulates from scrutiny an unjust status quo in which the wealthy oppress the poor. Law professor Catherine McKinnon championed a radical feminism according to which the fundamental divide in America stemmed not from class but from sex.
26:16This created a, her term, male supremacist society that afflicted women physically and psychologically, leaving it doubtful whether women could meaningfully consent to sex. And critical race theorists contended that the American political tradition sustains and is sustained by a structuralist or systemic racism that so thoroughly permanates the nation's norms and which is so deeply inscribed in its laws and institutions that only measures that discriminate based on race today can overcome the nation's systemic racism. Meanwhile, on the other side, the post-liberal critique of Americans' founding principles takes its bearing from pre-modern thinking, particularly Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas, or I really should insist, a certain interpretation of Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas.
27:12The post-liberal right embraces the idea that the highest aim of politics is to care for souls by fostering virtues and guiding people toward salvation. At the same time, it overlooks the warnings advanced by both classical philosophy and Christian thinking that while the best regime should serve as a standard, it is for all practical purposes unattainable, and therefore, politics consists for the most part in preserving and improving imperfect regimes. The post-liberal critique of America's founding principles also comes in several versions. The two most influential have been developed by University of Notre Dame political scientist Patrick Deneen and Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule.
27:55In a 2018 book, Why Liberalism Failed, Deneen argues that the fatal flaws of the principles of freedom that undergird American constitutional government should now be visible to all reasonable people. The fundamental flaws of the principles on which our nation is based. Foremost among those principles is the Lockean contention, central to the American Declaration, that human beings are by nature free and equally endowed with fundamental rights. In Deneen's view, notwithstanding Locke's insistence on the distinction between liberty and license, the belief in equality and basic rights and fundamental freedoms entails a pure or total freedom that is impossible to achieve even as it is dehumanizing to pursue.
28:41To escape the corruption and decadence of contemporary society, Deneen constructs a retreat, sorry, Deneen counsels a retreat into small, tight-knit, self-governing communities. He does not notice that his counsel embodies the founding American idea of a nation of small, tight-knit, self-governing communities protected from despotism by a limited constitutional government. Subsequently, Deneen performs an unexplained about-face in regime change in 2023, arguing that the proper response to the failure of the American constitutional order is the creation of a new regime, which marries aristocracy and populism in order to promote virtue and care for the soul.
29:29In common good constitutionalism, Vermeule agrees with Deneen. that classical liberal principles deform our politics and damage our humanity. In contrast to Deneen, Vermeule argues that America was not founded on those principles, on Lockeyn principles, but rather on classical legal principles deriving from Aristotle, Cicero, and Thomas Aquinas. Accordingly, Vermeule would have the legislative branch make law, the executive branch execute the law and the judicial branch decide cases and controversy that arise under the law, all with the view, not to the principles of individual freedom and human equality, but rather with a view to the highest truths of moral excellence and human salvation.
30:16But that is to deny, contrary to the stark evidence of the Declaration, that Lockean principles played a decisive role in the thinking of America's founding generation, and is to suppose, contrary to experience, that those who govern will be well endowed with the wisdom to discern, the prudence to fashion and enact, and the piety to implement laws that minister to the needs of citizen souls. For the post-liberal right, as for the post-modern progressive left, little, if anything good, deserves to be said about America's founding principles. while neither sees in its own ideal imperfections and downsides.
31:00Both fail to consider conscientiously the neglected truths within America's founding principles and to explore the reasons why so many have found them not merely credible but choice-worthy, and as the earlier session indicated, not only in the United States but around the world. and both overlook the disadvantages of their schemes for transforming America and the dangers endemic to radical change, be it by the left or by the right. In sum, one-sided thinking blinds the postmodern progressive left and the post-liberal right to the dependence of improving America on conserving the principles the nation's Declaration of Independence set forth 250 years ago.
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31:47And I want to conclude with the third section on the Declaration and Advancing U.S. Diplomacy.
31:56Respectable political opinion and all salutary reform in the United States give concrete expression to truths that the U.S. Declaration of Independence held to be self-evident. In an 1825 letter, Jefferson maintained that these self-evident truths reflected, I quote him, the common sense of the subject, close quote, at the time of the founding. First among them, the self-advent truce, is that human beings are equally endowed with unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Declaration also affirms as self-evident that government's first responsibility is to secure those rights, that government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed, and that the people have a right to alter or abolish government that destroys the conditions that make possible the enjoyment of their unalienable rights.
32:49Neither American conservatives nor American progressives routinely put matters in these terms, the ones I just mentioned, or acknowledge their debt to the nation's founding principles. They also, conservatives and progressives, politically specialize in different matters. conservatives focus on preserving tradition and respecting order grounded in the rule of law, while progressives concentrate on rectifying injustice and improving inherited arrangements. Yet at their most thoughtful, both will typically have recourse to the equality and rights in which the United States is rooted. Thoughtful American conservatives recognize that tradition and order grounded in the rule of law, sustain the effective exercise of individual rights.
33:36They also appreciate that a system of individual rights creates conditions favorable to citizens maintaining their traditions and preserving the good life as they understand it. Thoughtful American progressives recognize that rectifying injustice and improving inherited arrangements consist in significant measure in enabling the excluded to claim and enjoy their individual rights. Thoughtful progressives also appreciate that a system of individual rights creates conditions favorable to reformers mobilizing democratic majorities to enact legislation that ensures fair treatment for all. That conservatives and progressives do not always operate thoughtfully is one reason that it is useful to return regularly to the study of the truths that the nation's founders held to be self-evident.
34:27Another reason for careful reconsider of the reconsideration of the Declaration's teachings about freedom, equality, and self-government today is the prominent postmodern progressives and post-liberal representatives, post-liberal conservatives are inclined to repudiate the nation's founding principles. A third reason for re-examining and restating the Declaration's main ideas is the failure of colleges and universities to ensure that college students gain an understanding of America's founding principles and constitutional traditions. As America celebrates its 250th birthday, the 2020 report of the Commission on Unalienable Rights can assist in the proper re-examination and restatement.
35:14Some history about that report. In July 2019, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo established the Commission on Unalienable Rights. Pompeo cherished human rights as an essential component of the American heritage. He worried that the politicization of the great post-World War II human rights project, movement, by diplomats, professors, journalists, international organizations, and NGOs, endangered that heritage, heritage of human rights. With a special interest in the place of human rights and a responsible U.S. foreign policy, Pompeo asked the Commission to reground human rights in America's founding principles, in the best in the nation's constitutional traditions, and in the obligations that the United States had taken on in 1948 in voting to adopt in the U.N.
36:03General Assembly the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Pompeo appointed his Harvard Law School mentor, Professor Marianne Glendon, to chair the Commission. Glendon's unusual combination of accomplishments and qualities made her just right for the job. She possesses wide learning in law and the humanities. She has authored a major book criticizing the proliferation of rights claims in democratic discourse and another explaining the UDHR's origins, aims, aims and structure, and celebrating its influence on world affairs. She served as Vatican representative to the UN's 1995 Beijing Conference on Women and as U.S.
36:44Ambassador to the Holy See, 2008 and 2009. And Marianne possesses in abundance the rare ability to both generously interpret diverse views and subject them to rigorous analysis. In my own capacity as then director of the State Department's policy planning staff, I served as the Commission's executive secretary. I joined Glendon in assembling a small group of distinguished men and women to work on the report. They brought to our task expertise in international law, ethics, political philosophy, sociology, African American studies, and religion, backgrounds in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, conservative and progressive political opinions, and experience in scholarship, law, and the promotion of human rights.
37:35Within that diversity of expertise, ideas, and experience, and notwithstanding disagreements on public policy and law, commissioners shared a crucial conviction. All agreed that America's founding principles were essential to preserving and improving the nation. The report consists of a prefatory note and five parts. The prefatory note addresses the civic unrest and social convulsions that rocked the nation following the May 2020 murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis city police officers. As it prepared the report for the public, the commissioners recognized, explained in the prefatory note, that the tumult sweeping the nation testified to America's unfinished business in overcoming the nation's long history of racial injustice.
38:33At the same time, the report insisted on the fundamental distinction between rights-protecting democracies that fall short of their principles and authoritarian regimes that reject those principles. The note also stressed that despite the nation's imperfections, America has been and should remain a beacon to those around the world struggling for their rights, their human rights. Part one of the report introduces the undertaking. It emphasizes the erosion of the post-World War II human rights project owing to the resurgence of authoritarianism, disappointing performances of international institutions, and abuse of rights language to advance partisan goals.
39:16It stresses the report's focus on principles that should inform policy rather than taking stands on hard policy questions. It highlights the report's ambition to assist diplomats in giving human rights their due. It underscores the report's intention to encourage Americans to renew their dedication to America's rights tradition. and it encourages friends of freedom around the world to look to their own moral, political, and religious traditions for resources within their own traditions to elaborate and sustain the rights all human beings share. Part two concentrates on the Declaration of Independence.
39:58It discusses the roots of America's founding principles in three traditions, biblical faith, classical civic republicanism, and the modern tradition of freedom. It examines the Declaration's groundbreaking promise of equality and fundamental rights, the nation's grievous departures from that promise, and throughout American history, the recurring appeal to the Declaration by seminal reformers. It explores how constitutional structure and formal guarantees in the Constitution, safeguard basic rights and fundamental freedoms, and it reviews the implications for foreign policy of the nation's founding in human rights.
40:40Part three deals with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It recounts America's leading role in drafting the UDHR and winning approval in 1948 in the UN General Assembly. It discusses the aim, structure and content and logic of this crucially, carefully constructed document, and it provides answers to persistent questions about the UDHR, questions concerning national sovereignty, the hierarchy of rights, the relation between civil and political rights and social and economic rights, states' obligations, democracy, positive law, and the emergence of new rights. Part 4 takes up human rights in UN's foreign policy.
41:22It observes that securing American freedom has been at the core of American diplomacy. From Washington's warning to the vulnerable new nation in his 1796 farewell address to steer clear of, quote, permanent alliances, close quote, to America's dependence in 2026 as a great power in a deeply interconnected world on a multiplicity of alliances and partnerships. It argues that as U.S. power grew, as the world became smaller and more interconnected, and as American freedom became more dependent on events around the world, Americans were compelled to give more thought to the proper place of human rights in a responsible U.S.
42:06foreign policy. That is a foreign policy that must balance a variety of competing principles and interests. This section also examines the Constitution's statutory basis of American human rights policy and the nation's treaty obligations to honor human rights, and it reviews new challenges to human rights, including the decline of human rights, culture, and the corruption of international institutions, resurgent authoritarianism led by the Chinese Communist Party, large-scale migration, global health and pandemics, the growing menace presented by non-state actors, and new technologies, particularly AI.
42:46Part five offers concluding observations. Among the most important are that sovereign nation states are the fundamental political entity charged with securing human rights. Free and democratic regimes are the forms of government best suited to safeguarding them, and respect for human rights begins with education, and must be nurtured by families, schools, and associations of civil society. The Commission's report, as I should acknowledge, was very controversial. Don't have time to discuss that now. But we enjoyed one dramatic diplomatic success. In the summer of 2020, a few weeks after the report's publication, Nadlatul Ulama reached out to me at the State Department, headquartered Indonesia, NU is the world's largest independent Muslim organization.
43:40It has an estimated 100 million followers. 100 million followers. A representative of the NU General Secretary conveyed the organization's enthusiastic agreement with the report's understanding of human rights. Human rights both in domestic politics and human rights in foreign affairs. In late October 2020, Secretary Pompeo visited Jakarta as Ennui's guest to present the report and discuss its significance. Again, effectively a civil society organization with 100 million followers. In 2022, Glendon and I continued the commission's work by discussing the commission's report at the inaugural meeting of the G20 religious forum in Bali.
44:28This was organized by Nadal Tuulam as part of Indonesia's hosting of that year's G2020. And in the summer of 2025, Glendon and I conducted several seminars on Western political thought as part of NU's launch in Jakarta of an educational program for its senior leadership, combining the best of Islamic civilization and Western ideas. In other words, this is an example of the sort that Condoleezza Rice was speaking about in the previous session, the power, the ability and the power of the ideas in the Declaration of Independence to speak to peoples around the world. To close, every generation in America faces challenges, some perennial, some distinctive, in bringing to life the moral and political principles affirmed in the nation's Declaration of Independence and in holding America at home and abroad to the Declaration's founding promise.
45:29The laziness and forgetfulness that plague both sides of the political spectrum are perennial vices. The broadsides from the postmodern progressive left and the post-liberal right are distinctive to the moment. The laziness and the forgetfulness, as well as the broadsides, have been exacerbated by an education establishment establishment that tends to neglect, where it does not outright deny its responsibility to educate about America. On the nation's 250th anniversary, recovery of and rededication to the principles of the U.S. Declaration of Independence depend on reclaiming liberal education in America.
46:17Thank you.
46:22Thank you, Peter, for that wonderful presentation. I'm very honored to be here. I'm a great admirer of Peter, and I was very honored to be invited by Michael McConnell because he is someone I admire very, very much. So I'm very flattered to have this opportunity. Let me sort of say by way of introduction to a discussion of this paper that has all the hallmarks of a Peter Berkowitz paper. It's learned, it's deep, and it's provocative. So I'd like to, in the spirit of provocativeness, I'd like to focus on one particular thread of thought that runs through the paper and maybe pull a bit on that thread.
47:16And the purpose of my pulling on this thread is not simply to be provocative, but to actually offer a bit of hope. Now for those who may know me well, I'm rarely thought of as a man who is hopeful. I'm originally from New York. In fact, I'm not a native speaker of English. I'm a native speaker of New Yorkese. and we're not a people known for our Pollyannish views. However, when it comes to the future of liberal education at universities, I want to give a hopeful note. Okay, so the core of this thread of Peter's paper is that what's happened at universities is that liberalism as it's taught, It's a liberalism of the Declaration of Independence is basically taught and therefore understood by Americans as a set of abstract ideas that much like any set of abstract ideas is nothing more than that.
48:21Rather than liberalism is embodied in the Constitution as a call to active participation in citizenship. And this is a great failing, according to the paper, of our educational system. I'm going to quote Peter here. The nation's educational system bears heavy responsibility for the diminished understanding of the American experiment and ordered liberty, for the loss of perspective concerning its merits and shortcomings, and for the popularity of extreme criticism emerging from both sides of the political spectrum. While all levels of the American educational system bear responsibility for this diminished understanding, loss of perspective, and taste for the extreme, our colleges and universities are especially to blame because they train K-12 teachers.
49:17I am not going to argue with that view. I think that's largely right. Where I am going to pull on a thread is on why this happened. So, in Peter's view, this is about the professoriate. And he provides a three-part explanation for why the professoriate sort of led American universities towards, if I can be a bit dramatic, illiberalism. One is political. One is methodological, and the third is professional. So again, I'll quote Peter in the political dimension. Contrary to liberal education's imperatives, many faculty members believe that their job is to instill correct views about the pursuit of social justice in America and enlist students in the cause of progressive transformation of society.
50:11Close quote. Then there's the methodological dimension. Again, I'm quoting. Contrary to liberal education's imperatives, many faculty members, especially in the social sciences, plead guilty, believe that the scientific method represents the one true approach to knowledge. We can actually debate about what political scientists mean by scientific method, because in fact there's a big part of science that is not as used by political scientists that it's actually not scientific, but we won't get into those weeds here. Finally, there's a professional dimension. Contrary to the imperatives of liberal education, many professors operate on the assumption that the purpose of undergraduate education is to train the next generation of scholars.
50:58Okay, so what all three of these diagnoses of the problem of why we're not good at teaching liberal education as active citizen engagement, what they all do is point to the professoriate. That is, liberal education has been failing at American universities because the faculty have been engaged in three projects that in combination work against liberal education. Okay, so now I want to advance a hypothesis. I want to underline that it's a hypothesis, not a statement of fact. That the professoriate is a proximate rather than a fundamental cause of the drift from liberal education. The key to this is that somebody ultimately chooses the professoriate and supports them.
51:55Now, it's true enough that the selection and promotion of the faculty is in large part delegated to the faculty. But the key word is delegated, which is not synonymous with devolved. As both a legal and as a practical matter at virtually all universities, decisions of the faculty about hiring and promotion are non-binding recommendations to the dean, who makes a non-binding recommendation to a provost, who makes a non-binding recommendation to a president, who makes a non-binding recommendation to a board of trustees. The Board of Trustees is the only entity in this chain that has fiduciary authority and duty.
52:53For those of us who work for Stanford, this is why if you look at your check every two weeks, it says that it's being paid to you by the Board of Trustees of the Leland Stanford Junior University. Now, the first time I received one of these checks, when I started here as an assistant professor, back in the days when dinosaurs and people walked the earth at the same time, I was appalled to see that I was working for a junior university. I thought for a few moments that I had made some terrible mistake by leaving the faculty at Columbia, which was a senior university, to come to a junior university.
53:35But it did teach me that it's the board of trustees that has the fiduciary responsibility to watch out for the long-run interest of the university as an institution, especially when the university receives very generous subsidies and privileges from taxpayers. years. So the Board of Trustees, or at a public university, a Board of Regents, chooses the President, who chooses the Provost, who chooses the Deans, who allocate resources to departments. Because they set the incentive structures, they are far from innocent bystanders in the direction of the schools and departments. Moreover, the President and the Provost choose a management team that goes beyond the academic deans.
54:31They choose a dean of admissions, who decides which students are going to get in, and the basis on which they're going to get in. They choose a dean of residential education and a dean of students. In short, I want to suggest as an hypothesis for discussion that the drift at American universities away from teaching about liberalism as active citizenship is not a product of the faculty alone. It is the product of the growth of progressive ideology within boards of trustees and the presidents and provosts they select. Now I want to be clear here. I am not suggesting that boards of trustees are dominated by wild, progressive thought.
55:23But what I am going to show you in a few minutes I have remaining is that if you look at the evolution of boards of trustees over the last 40 years at American universities, there's been a growth within boards of a group that one would identify as, in Peter's terminology, progressive, and a simultaneous diminution, my New York accent fighting with me, a simultaneous decline in conservative members of boards. Now, I did something that Peter cautions against in his paper when he says there's too much evidence on measuring and weighing. This is just a good spirited. We're friends. So with several colleagues, Amit Saru from the GSB, Dan Kessler from the law school, and I, along with a team of student co-authors, Ji-Win Yu, Will Weigle, and Jun-Yan Yu, we did the heretical, we gathered data.
56:32And so we put together a data set of every trustee or member of a board of regents at every American university over the last 40 years. So that's about 72 ,000 independent observations. and then the presidents and provosts of all those institutions. And then we matched it to a database that our colleague Adam Bonica in the political science department has produced. So you may not know this, but every time you give money to a political campaign of over$200, it's recorded. It's a public record. And what Bonica, he was a genius, did was that he took these and he created a matrix and so he links individuals and candidates so you can see who I gave money to and then you can generate an ideology score for me based on my pattern of giving.
57:32You'll see that I gave a lot of money to AOC. So okay, so I won't bore you with the details of what we did and the matching problems, although I could go on and on forever. However, here's basically what we find. Circa 1980, the median trustee at a private university was slightly to the right of center. On average, most boards were moderately conservative. Since 1980, the composition of university boards of trustees has shifted left, such that the median trustee is now a centrist. The shift is more pronounced at elite private universities, where the median trustee is now slightly left of center, and the median is shifted because the share of trustees who are strongly conservative has fallen relative to the share, who are strongly progressive.
58:42That is the left tail of the distribution, the group that would be, you know, call themselves progressive or be categorized as progression has grown fatter, while the right tail of the distribution has become flatter. This pattern holds even when we control for changes in the racial, gender, and ethnic composition of boards. boards. This is not a story about boards becoming more diverse in other dimensions, and that's what's driving sort of a drift to the left. It's a story that's sort of more general than that. More interesting still, we don't find this pattern at public universities. On average, public universities are flat.
59:27And incidentally, we didn't do this work, but others have done Senate, you don't see this pattern for federal judges or corporate CEOs or members of corporate boards, private corporation boards. The other thing that we find, and here I'm going to wrap up because we want to have time for Q &A, the other thing we find is that liberal boards tend to pick presidents who are more liberal than the boards. And so there's been a, especially amongst elite private universities, a move towards progressivism amongst presidents, and those presidents pick provosts who are more to the left than they are. And so part of what's going on or what has been going on at American universities has been a loss of a lack of ideological balance, not just among the faculty, but among the people that govern the university.
1:00:25Okay. Now this is where things get helpful, because we're talking about small numbers of people. A typical board's got about 35 members on it. Restoring balance to a board, therefore, means it's a small numbers issue. It also means that because this is a small numbers issue that attempts or programs that are bringing liberal education back to universities
1:01:04can gain quite a lot of traction if there's a willingness by boards to support them. And so here I'm going to end with an advertisement, not for myself but for our colleague Josh over who leads the Stanford Civics Initiative who's managed to bring civic education back to the undergraduate experience at Stanford. He should actually get the Nobel Prize for political genius because he somehow has convinced the Stanford Faculty Senate this is a good thing. It's a joke but it's a tough audience. And so I want to end on this hopeful note right which is that yes I agree with Peter things have drifted away from liberal education I've had unfortunate personal experience with it in teaching poli sci one Where at one point when I was explaining that one of the advantages of democracies is that you actually know the opinions Of everybody around you and you can openly disagree with them and they can disagree with you When I said this all hell broke out in my classroom And in fact some students went to the provost to complain about me.
1:02:21I'm a big boy, I didn't mind. So it's not that I cared, right? But what struck me about it was the idea that they found that threatening, and that they thought that the right avenue for disagreeing with me was to go complain to my superior, who would punish me for my heresy of thought. So let me close by thanking again Michael and thanking Peter and looking forward to your discussion of Peter's paper and for listening to my hopeful intervention. Thank you. I want to thank Steve, and I want to note for the record that I can't remember what I regard as a more friendly amendment to a paper position I've given.
1:03:15I embrace Steve's analysis. There's a lot of responsibility to go around here, and yes, the corporations, the boards have the final say. Two other quick points. One, I like data, and I'm a fan of counting, measuring, and weighing. the point I wasn't careful enough to say. The problem is not science but what Hayek called scientism, the belief that everything should be a matter of scientific approach. And third, I am still less optimistic than Steve that at any time soon the Declaration, constitutional traditions, larger Western civilization will really be placed at the center of the curriculum because the sensibility that's opposed to all that is deeply entrenched at the university.
1:04:14And even though the buck does stop, as Steve said, above the president with the boards, my sense is that much of the university still does not wish to be reformed. But I welcome, I agree with Steve where, ultimately, change has to come from.
1:04:41Peter Berkowitz:This has been a special presentation from Stanford Legal. I'm Pam Carlin. See you next time.
From the publisher
The real crisis isn’t the Declaration—it’s what we’ve stopped teaching.
Peter Berkowitz, Tad and Dianne Taube Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, contends that universities have failed at liberal education—the cultivation of citizens prepared to exercise freedom and responsibility. He attributes the breakdown to politicized classrooms, overreliance on narrow “scientistic” approaches in the social sciences, and a professional culture that trains future scholars instead of educating future citizens—leaving graduates with little serious exposure to the Declaration, the Constitution, and the moral logic of self-government. Stephen Haber, Stanford Professor of Political Science, History, and Economics, presses the discussion toward causes and incentives, setting up a debate about who is responsible for the drift and what reforms could realistically restore civic learning.
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Chapters:
[00:00:26 – 00:04:11] Chapter 1: Setting the stakes—The Declaration at 250 and today’s critiques
Michael McConnell frames the episode around renewed skepticism of the Declaration’s natural-rights claims—from progressive critiques focused on slavery and domination to post-liberal arguments against “abstract” rights.
[00:04:11 – 00:06:54] Chapter 2: Berkowitz’s opening—What the Declaration claims and why critics converge
Peter Berkowitz restates the Declaration’s core logic (equality, unalienable rights, consent, and the right to alter/abolish destructive government) and argues that left/right critiques increasingly overlap in their indictment of universal rights.
[00:06:54 – 00:17:47] Chapter 3: Universities and the erosion of liberal education
Berkowitz contends civic understanding is collapsing because colleges no longer ensure a shared, rigorous education in founding principles, constitutional traditions, and the broader intellectual inheritance needed for citizenship.
[00:17:47 – 00:31:00] Chapter 4: From “critical” to “generous” thinking—Mapping the modern critiques
Berkowitz argues that criticism without charitable interpretation becomes a “rage to criticize,” then traces postmodern progressive and post-liberal arguments (including Deneen and Vermeule) that reject the Declaration’s rights framework and flirt with radical alternatives.
[00:31:00 – 01:04:12] Chapter 5: Human rights, diplomacy, and reform—The Commission and a debate about university governance
Berkowitz ties the Declaration to U.S. foreign policy via the UDHR and the Commission on Unalienable Rights, including its aims and controversies; Stephen Haber responds that boards, presidents, and provosts shape campus ideology and that governance-level changes could enable a revival of civic education.
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