Sequoia VP talent Zoe Hewitt on what star talent looks like in 2025

0:02Hello and welcome to the Sifted podcast, the show where we help you get to know the brightest and boldest people and companies in Europe's startup ecosystem. I'm Amy, Sifted's editor and your host. And today I'm joined by Zoe Hewitt, VP of talent for Sequoia Capital, and someone with a pretty unparalleled view on where Europe's tech talent is moving and what challenges it's facing. Zoe was the first employee at Entrepreneur First, the talent accelerator and company builder. She then moved into VC, spending three years at EQT Ventures as an operating partner before joining Sequoia almost five years ago.

0:36Her most illustrious post, however, has to be her role as an agony aunt at Sifted, where for the past two years, she's been writing a monthly column addressing the challenges and concerns European tech talent faces. Today, we'll talk about where startups are finding top talent in the era of AI, where that top talent wants to work and what we think of hustle culture. Zoe, Welcome to the show. Thank you, Amy. So let's start off with what does your week-to-week look like? What actually is your job for anyone who doesn't quite understand it? My week-to-week looks very different week-to-week, as you can imagine.

1:11Essentially, I wear two hats at Sequoia. So the first hat is partnering with founders, sitting side-by-side with them, discussing their talent strategy, making sure it's stage-relevant, and then really leaning in to help them make progress on their priority hires. So that's the first job. The second job, though, is to build the network of great talent around Sequoia Capital. And so this involves meeting so many interesting people, operators, future founders, anybody that might want to engage with a Sequoia portfolio company through the arc of their career. And it could take many different forms in terms of joining the company in a full-time role or advising a company, investing in a company, maybe starting a future Sequoia company.

1:51So we meet a lot of people. and how do you this is perhaps a question for me as a journalist as well someone who's meant to have a really huge network how do you keep track of everyone and how do you maintain those relationships i'd love to say it's my mind but that would be a lie no we have some pretty awesome custom-built tooling inside sequoia that we've been developing over the past decade so it's very built for us but essentially we are every time we meet someone we are trying to take note and take log of the conversation but also what those people are telling us about what they want to do with their futures and I find the most interesting part of my job is to really spend a lot of time on people's career aspirations motivations values type of companies or sectors they find interesting even if there's nothing actionable at the time because we can always come back to that information as opportunities arise inside the portfolio so yes it's some very nice note-taking and storing but then also I do think there is this element of I don't know if everybody has this but I have always loved being a matchmaker and so I will often remember one or two key things about somebody that stands out or that's unique to them and that memory recall does come in helpful when I'm talking to a founder that might be building a company in the space that they find interesting or in a in a sector that they find interesting so we make connections that way all the time.

3:17So you're when you're meeting people you're kind of thinking this person might be future founder material or this person is an amazing you know head of growth and then sometime down the line you're hoping someone is looking for that particular person and you've already met them. Yeah and I think that's the beauty of a role like this because we're not necessarily thinking in terms of roles or even companies sometimes we're taking a really open-minded approach to conversations we have with people very opportunistic very speculative and exploratory and so roles of course come up into conversation when there's something relevant but usually it's just a an intellectually curious conversation about a person and their story and where they want to go and them making those connections as they come up quite organically and where do you tend to meet these people what which are the kind of communities you tap into events you go to Is it doing a lot of stalking on LinkedIn?

4:12We largely build the talent network at Square through referral. And so we've really prioritized the sort of social referrals and social proof signal that we get from great people inside our network. And that served us really well. That's how I would say we find the majority of great people that we meet. Of course, we always want to be meeting people that are not on our radar. And I think when we expanded into Europe, there was a really big piece around that because we hadn't spent decades building relationships across the continent. And so, of course, we do research and sourcing to make sure that our market maps of the best people are up to date and current.

4:46But I would still say it involves having lots of conversations and then asking great people who else is great and who else is extraordinary inside their networks, regardless of function or role or company that they're at. We just want to meet exceptional people. in terms of there's obviously a bunch of companies that we think are doing a really great job at recruiting top talent a lot of startups are doing a great job and so we want to make sure that we are close to the companies that are building ecosystems of really great people both current and former employees i think sifted's covered a lot of the sort of big startup or scale-up mafias in europe that have produced a lot of great people companies like revolute palantir and so we're really close to those ecosystems and those flywheels.

5:28And what is the company or which are the companies at the moment that everyone really wants to work for? Good question. Anything AI, basically. I know, I think Eleven Labs is doing a great job. OpenAI is another one. Sierra is another one. So we've got a lot of interest from our network in joining companies that are doing interesting things in AI, naturally. But that said, there are also some really interesting non-AI companies that people want to work for. And I still think the UK in particular has an edge for fintech. And there's a lot of fintech talent that wants to go and work in next gen payments companies or next gen banking companies.

6:03So we're paying attention to all the trends. And is there anything you'd say companies people really want to work for having in common? Is it that they're doing something that's perceived to be very exciting like AI, like it's the latest technology? Or is there other elements that go into the mix? Yeah, I think broadly people want to work for missions and not jobs. So I think actually for the type of talent we look to engage in our network, they are typically very ambitious, very intentional about their career, very impact orientated. And so when I meet someone, it's rare that they have this pre-prepared list of Sequoia portfolio companies to talk through and to ask if there are any jobs in those companies.

6:42They might mention one or two, but really they center on sharing the type of work that excites them, the type of missions that they want to join and the type of impact that they want to have. And so that's unique to an individual. But I would say any company that is doing something at the cutting edge or applying frontier technology to a really hard problem. And of course, scale, a company that can have scale or does have scale, I think is still the most attractive thing to the most ambitious people. And what are the hardest roles to hire for? What are the roles that you sit there like with your head in your hands with founders?

7:17So I think there's obviously like very deeply technical AI, ML, engineering roles that are still very hard to fill, not because the talent is hard to identify, but because usually those people are very happy and well looked after where they are. Sometimes that's inside universities and research labs, sometimes that's inside companies. And so I still think that that talent is hard to pull out of those environments, especially as compensation, as you've covered, is quite insane in some of these places. And so I think for early stage companies, they struggle to pull away the best people often from labs and other places like that.

7:52I would say, though, there's been this sort of rise in demand for forward deployed engineers recently. And this one is proving, at least from what I've seen firsthand, to be slightly difficult for founders to recruit. Just as some context, I think we've seen the rise of this role come about because of AI companies moving and leaning in towards service-based models and serving enterprise clients and customers. And so now companies want to hire engineers who are more customer facing. And so this talent pool has become very important all of a sudden. Of course, companies like Palantir have been hiring these people for ages and kind of created that role.

8:30But I think now we're starting to see that demand play out in early stage companies. The reason why I think it's difficult and hard to hire those people at the moment is because the talent pool doesn't really exist in any kind of nice, neat, identifiable way. And so unless you're targeting people that are already FDEs at companies like Palantir, where they're quite happy and unlikely to leave, I think you have to be, I encourage founders to be very open minded and creative in thinking about the profile that you could potentially go after to find the next gen FDE. And so I'm thinking about engineers who are very customer focused, they're commercial, they're product savvy, they like to be on the front line.

9:10They may never have been in a forward deployed role before, but they're very curious or very excited by the prospect of leaning into a role like that. I think in the future or maybe even the next year or two, we'll start to see companies actually create their own FD programs just in the same way that Google created their APM program to build those proprietary talent pipelines. And who knows if it's a fad, it might be a short term, you know, short term demand that doesn't play out over time. But that's what I'm seeing. So what other tips or other tricks do founders employ if they can't, for example, match the salary that someone is on elsewhere?

9:49obviously they as you're saying you can come up with ways to maybe find tap-ins other pools of talent and train them up in those roles yeah but aside from that what else are people doing to lure this great talent in if they can't just give them loads and loads of money essentially i think it's storytelling and i think we're starting to see something really interesting happening in talent brand and employer brand right now i think in the last decade when we thought about a company's brand or a startup's talent brand we thought about you know how snazzy was their career page or how interesting were their job descriptions which events are they attending and actually now what i'm starting to see is the very best founders have always been talent magnets but they're now being more public about being magnetic and so and we're starting to see a lot of founders take to platforms like linkedin and put out really interesting genuine authentic content which actually does reach talent audiences that they're trying to to recruit from and what that does for the talent is it really gives them a sort of look into the company that they may end up joining the type of mission that they could end up working on and the sort of size of ambition of founders and so I'm starting to see quite a quite a bit of that we've got some portfolio founders who do a great job of that already and I'd also say that extends to key employees so it's you know founders is great but also if you've got some super impressive founding team members they should also probably be telling stories through their own platforms.

11:12Is that something the investment team at Sequoia are starting to take into consideration you know we as you I mean the prime example I'm thinking on is Anton Ossico at Lovable I feel like almost every new hire he posts we've got this new amazing person welcome to whoever who's joined the team I'm sure lots of other founders are doing it but is that that as you say that ability to storytell that visibility and being comfortable being on those platforms do you think that's an increasingly important founder attribute? I think talent magnetism is definitely an important trait and I think it's one that we've always paid close attention to even in non-public fashions and forms so you can be a talent magnet and that could mean that just the best people from research labs or universities want to come and work for you.

11:57In terms of how founders show up on platforms I think if it's authentic and actually linked to kind of impressive revenue and growth metrics that are true then I think that's of course like super interesting for us would you say talent is savvier these days about you know do they do they ask questions you know what's what's the revenue when you're reaching profitability when you next fundraising i don't know are they are they more switched on to the you know how to tell if a company has legs or not than they used to be yeah 100 i think that's probably a reflection of the sort of 2021-2022 era where we were in that sort of hiring boom and then the kind of fallout from that.

12:40We've definitely seen talent now think more carefully and more intentionally about the next company they join. We've also seen some risk aversion. So actually, I think one of the challenges for early stage founders is finding the people that have the mindset to join something early stage and truly understand the risk and reward and are not kind of put off by that but of course there are so many questions now asked about traction valuation revenue we're seeing that those conversations come up much much earlier into into the the process what about how is where startups find talent changing because i think i was a bit slow to cut onto this but the kind of rebirth of the hackathon yes it's a place that people are talking about you know as a good way to sort of meet talent see them like in action yeah what are you kind of seeing there yeah i know the the rise or the rebirth of the hackathons taking me back to my ef days and all the hackathons i used to go to i think it actually the identification of where you find great people i think is quite simple i think if you follow ambition paths or where ambitious people cluster you will find great talent and so sometimes that is place you know things like hackathons very often it's companies or clusters around a great founder or clusters around a university or a certain program and so I think I often encourage founders to think of ecosystems of talent and wherever those ecosystems seem to lie they should spend time there and so I do think that that's that's pretty much you know what my advice to founders I don't think it's as simple as just you know let's go after everybody that worked for a certain company back in the day I do think you want to be selective and really try to find the stars and that piece does require talking to some people as well to have a calibrated view on who were the outperformers who should I get to know and we do a lot of that as a talent team on behalf of founders so that they don't have to do that.

14:32And what makes someone a star what are kind of the ways you can identify that rather than as you say you know there's a lot of people out there who are like ex-Google. Yeah yeah. You can't all have been amazing. And I think this is changing too so i think it's about having a high slope and we definitely look at trajectory and i think the change we're seeing now the change that's happening now it's less about how quickly did those people rise up management ranks and how you know how many people did they manage but more in terms of the size of the scope of their role and the impact that they had and sometimes even things like proximity to the founders of companies i always find it really interesting to meet the people that are super close or the right hands to some of the you know best CEOs that have come out of Europe and so I think it's it's understanding where an individual sat inside a matrix of a company but really how much responsibility was given to them and I always love finding the people that were sort of given kind of unfair amount of responsibility relative to their like achievements and accomplishments so finding those people where they must have made such an impression or such an impact they were just given really huge jobs and so yeah staying close to those people and I think actually that's reflected in how our portfolio are thinking about the types of talent they want to hire now we're seeing I'm sure I think you've covered it the rise of the super IC so you know these sort of generalist operators who do spike on strategy and execution skills but actually they're hired for their really sharp judgment and discernment skills they take on huge responsibilities and they're given you know really meaty parts of the organization but they just managed to get a lot of stuff done and are super super effective so we're starting to see that as a trend play out too one thing i've heard about is from a few people but i'm not sure if this is a trend or just some random instances is founders having more line management than they used to so founders almost wanting to i don't know if it's a control thing or it's like wanting to be close to lots of heads of department as ai makes everything happen way faster are you seeing that are you seeing and i mean maybe this also ties into the trend of sort of protecting the individual contributors as you said so they can just do their great job and not have to worry about management or politics in the same way yeah yeah i'm definitely seeing this firsthand in our portfolio too soon to say whether it's a trend although i feel like every everything's a trend right now there's just a lot of change going on um but i'm definitely seeing this firsthand i'm seeing a lot of early stage founders create the office of the CEO much earlier I think a few years ago that would have been seen as an act of hubris but actually now we're seeing these super effective teams be built around the founder CEO and their job is essentially to create leverage for for the founder so I'm definitely seeing that play out I think you know whether it's a control thing I mean you could argue it's you know founder mode being played out in real time but actually I think it's that from my observation founders are holding on to core functions for longer and so they are hiring execs or handing the baton over to execs later and that is because they're able to do more have more traction without having to hire a heavy hitting you know cro or vp of product and so they are just able to get much further down the line in a manageable way by you know maybe hiring a few key highly leveraged hires around them, but they are holding on to certain functions for longer.

17:55And so far, I've only seen it play out well for our portfolio companies. I think a lot of people look up to Nick Staronsky, the CEO and co-founder of Revolut, and admire the way he's built his organisation and the level of control he's able to have and be in the details whilst running a super successful company. So I think that is probably going to be a trend or a pattern that's here to stay. if i'm a founder listening to this and i'm thinking i like the sound of this uh office of the ceo concept like what what is it what kind of jobs do those people do how many people is that yeah yeah it's a great question how many people i've seen everything from one and two to i think we've got a portfolio company's got about six people now and they're very early stages in a series b stage so the types of people they look different i think traditionally titles have looked similar to founders associate chief of staff but not not always it could be things like special projects new bets and in terms of the work in terms of their profiles maybe they could come from either strategy and ops backgrounds they and you know come from a consulting firm management consulting firm they could have a go-to-market skew they could have a product skew and so i think the profiles there's a lot of variety in the profiles and depending on the profile of the person that probably depends on the type of work and responsibility they're given and so what i've seen in some of our portfolio companies these people are owning things like anything from core functions like hr finance legal all the way through to core product new bets new initiatives strategic projects that the founder is working super closely with them on expansion it could be a range of things but i think anything that is like top of mind for a founder or super high priority area of work i think you would likely find these people being the founder's right hand too And when does it not work?

19:47When does it not work? I think if founders are using it to compensate for areas of weakness where they just don't want to improve or get better, that can sometimes not work out. You know, you probably, you might get, you know, someone in this office of the CEO to help out with fundraising, but you probably don't want them to be the fundraiser. And so, you know, clearly if there were super important jobs that the founder should be doing, I don't think it works out well. Also in hiring, if that person's taking the very first conversation with a really great person, sometimes that doesn't have the same allure and appeal as speaking directly to the founder because the best talent needs to be sold to from the first conversation.

20:29How much of their average week should a founder be spending on their hiring? In the early stages, I think it should be a lot of their time. You know, assuming that they've raised the funds for the company, I think they should be spending like a heavy majority of their time on hiring and people extending to also, you know, looking for those high performers and looking after them. But I would say in the previous company building era, founders probably didn't spend enough time on hiring. I think now that team sizes are a little bit smaller and founders are thinking differently about org design and org structures, actually the huge advantage of that is that founders can spend more time because they are hiring fewer people.

21:10So they can go really deep. And I think the best founders in our portfolio really spend the time testing out mutual fit and working side by side with people they think they might want to hire. And how are founders thinking about org sort of design, org structure, when you hire people, like at what stage you hire specific types of roles? How has that changed? You know, I'm thinking of how just how crazily fast some companies are now growing with AI. What havoc has that wrecked on the kind of usual hiring roadmap? Yeah, I mean, all sorts of havoc. I think over the last few decades, company building has been fairly predictable.

21:47Founders would go out to raise capital. They would then build this nicely designed org chart with neatly defined functions and roles and titles. And then they would go out and hire against that. Headcount pretty much ticked in line with revenue growth. And as we all know, headcount growth became one of the dominant metrics of company success or one of the signals. Now, fast forward to where we are today, 2025, I think that model has been flipped on its head. And AI is no doubt the accelerant here. But I also think it's probably symptomatic of the market downturn that we came out of. And so we're just seeing more conservative attitudes towards how you build a company, which I think is a healthy thing.

22:22And so what that means for founders and companies that are building today, I do think that management layers are thinning. There are just fewer middle managers. Leaders are being hired later. we're seeing lots of season leaders take these ic roles founders holding to functions for longer as as i mentioned and so they are just much more lean uh leaner meaner teams is what i would say and so i and i think you've covered you know the tiny team trend whether this is sustainable i think companies still need to grow and they still need to scale and we're definitely seeing a handful of companies like lovable proving that you can reach pretty impressive revenue scale with you know a handful of people but i do think there will come a point where companies do need to hire more seasoned leadership talent and they will just need to add more people to the team.

23:07I think the nature of what that looks like is yet to be seen because my guess would be that we'll see fewer traditional functional VPs and C-level people so fewer kind of well-defined roles in that sense and more general manager types owning larger parts of the organization maybe even you know a couple of different parts to a couple of different functions whereas in the previous era you would have hired a leader for each part of the business. Why do you think that? Why do you think that will change? I think we're seeing consolidation of functions. Some are just blending together. We're seeing that we can do more with less.

23:42I think I love talking to people where I think they could move into a much bigger role or they could play a much bigger role inside a company. And so I've met some brilliant, you know, VPs of product that would be a brilliant GM. And so I think talent is also just thinking a bit more ambitiously about the type of impact they could have. And so I think that we'll start to see this desire to move into general management roles rather than having your lane and sticking to your lane. What's your, maybe this is too general, but what is your advice for maybe sort of mid-stage talent in tech startups who are maybe a bit worried about how the world of work is being upended and roles are changing and teams are getting smaller?

24:25What are some great tips for how people can sort of remain relevant in this next era of work? I think a lot of it comes down to rethinking the career path or the career plan that you thought you had in place. And so that often for middle managers requires rethinking leadership and decoupling your career success or your notion of career success with the number of people that you manage. I think it's also about kind of doing some self-discovery work and really asking yourself, what is the type of work that really energizes me that I love doing? And where does that fall inside an organization because I think founders do want to hire people that are able to be more hands-on in in certain areas and they want to hire high performers and so I think middle management as a as a sort of you know skill is is now not so in demand it's not so impressive I think it's more about like what can you actually do and how you how can you articulate the impact that you have had in your previous roles and that you could have for a company going forward.

25:25What about founders? What are they most worried about either about themselves and their kind of personal ability to keep up or just existentially about their team, about their company? I think founders always worry about scaling themselves. I don't know if they would admit it but I think I'm sure in the back of every great founder's mind they are so often thinking in in the future that I'm sure they're asking questions on how do I get from A to B and we see that transition play out all the time from founder to CEO. And it's a hard transition. Who knows whether it will be harder or easier now that there are fewer people maybe to manage.

26:00But you know, to come back to the trend that you pointed out, founders have more direct reports. So they kind of need to be good people leaders and people managers more so than maybe before, because they may not be hiring in the people managers. So I think founders are probably very conscious of scaling themselves. I think for the founders I work with, they're also just really obsessed with knowing what excellent looks like for the next stage and so this is where we help out quite a lot at sequoia we often make introductions to founders where when we may not be introducing because they should hire this person but it will give the founder a view and a look into what excellence looks like for the stage that they're about to move into and sometimes founders need to see it to believe it's real and to believe it exists and to have their hiring ambition stretched for when that moment comes around.

26:47I also think it helps founders address underperformance inside their teams better because sometimes again they have to see it to recognize underperformance. We almost need more sort of work experience for founders within other companies so they can see what's going on. What are some roles that you're seeing people hire less these days? ILS, I think we've covered middle management and leadership for leadership's sake. I think obviously a lot of entry-level roles where AI is just now replacing a lot of the work you might have previously hired a team of entry-level hires for. And we're still early in seeing how that trend will play out over time.

27:29I think it is a big question for early talent, you know, how do you get into some of these companies? So I'd say it's mostly on the sort of early talent side and some of the operational roles that now we've just got some really brilliant tools that help us you know accommodate for that we're even seeing that in our own work so how do you think your role is going to be disrupted by ai oh well i'm hoping that zoe colone comes out soon no i think from what i'm already seeing i mean there's just been such game-changing efficiency gains from using some of the ai tools i now use in my day-to-day workflow as i mentioned i meet so many people in a week and the day I got an AI note taker is the day I'll remember for a long time and so I think there's just more of my time is going to be freed up now to spend with people which I think is the most important part of my job and there's the sort of research and market mapping piece of a talent person's work that is definitely going to be accelerated and amplified by AI there's also just in my work I make a lot of introductions and I'm using tools to help me be more efficient in the way that I make those introductions.

28:36But I think for myself, I'm hoping AI will help me spend more time having highly personal, highly tailored conversations with people about their careers or with founders about how they build companies. Got two other trends I want to ask you about. One is acquihires, reverse acquihires, all these different things we're seeing going on. How does, is that something you, the rest of the team at sequoia are now thinking about again when you're first meeting companies when you're thinking about backing them about how likely is it that these three amazing founders might get given a really really juicy pay package by meta and go and join them or is that is that like a kind of risk you're now factoring in i think i mean i think it's definitely a risk if you're if you're finding a high quality team who have unparalleled expertise or experience i think there's always a risk that they might just you know end up getting acquirred super early but i would say that we filter for that or we select out for that by investing in the people where their ambition level is just so huge that it's not an option for them and it's not an option that would be attractive for them in most most of the cases not to say that it never happens but i think it's if if we met founders and that was their first you know one of the first exit thoughts they had would probably be probably be a bit of an anti-signal but it's the reality of the market we're in and actually I do think we're going to see more aqua hires of teams and we will see companies that are leading in this in the spaces they're in really pursue it as a way to grow their teams and grow their companies in a sort of inorganic way and as we know hiring is really hard so it could be a smart choice yeah final thing I wanted to ask about was hustle culture the the 996 that we've been hearing so much about on LinkedIn what do you make of it all yeah I saw a really great post yesterday during the rounds I think it was the CEO of Linear that had posted something very articulate about the trend and I we're seeing it in our portfolio companies we're definitely seeing I mean long hours at startups have been around forever so it's not new I do think there is more conversation about it now but I think the the tension lies in whether it's a mandate or whether it's something that happens organically and I think in in at least the founders I work with most of the time There are no mandates to work 996.

30:54It is symptomatic of just the deep care and obsession that the team has for the mission that they've been hired in to help make progress on. And so it's like entirely voluntary, which I think is, you know, it's good. I remember when I was the first employer at EF, we worked really long hours in a basement. And so you do it when you really care about an early stage company and an early stage mission. Obviously, if it's mandated, I think that's a different conversation. But I think as long as founders are upfront in hiring processes about the culture, the working culture that exists inside their firms, that's OK.

31:30And I think also they just need to be mindful that they will be ruling out, you know, potentially large parts of the talent pool for people that just can't do the hours that are expected. And that's also OK because there's this like self-selecting mechanism. But I think for early stage companies, speed is always going to be something they pursue. And when you have a great mission paired with great talent, I think you tend to see those people work longer hours. A few very quick fire questions to end on. Who is the most brilliant founder you've met recently? Oh, that's a good one. I usually don't pick favourites.

32:03You can give me a few. I'm spending a lot of time with a founder in our portfolio called Path. He's building a company called Aspora and he's brilliant for many different reasons, but he's super young and has achieved really impressive things with very few years of experience under his belt. What's the best meetup, hackathon, some other event you've attended recently? Best Meetup, I've attended recently. So we, can I say one we hosted? You may. We hosted an event with a portfolio company called Sierra. And I know that they've also hosted events with companies like Granola. They're doing a lot in the ecosystem.

32:39But it was a really great event because Sierra is a US-based company. They're expanding into Europe. And the room was just full of people that were curious about how Sierra was applying AI to customer support and customer service and the bigger picture beyond that. and it was just it was a really buzzy event that we hosted in our office because there was no agenda really it wasn't a hiring event per se it was just like come and hear this interest come and hear about the interesting tech that we're building and finally what's the trickiest agony aunt question you've been asked oh i get a lot about transitioning into vc which is which is an interesting one because i think vc as we know is like notoriously hard to break into.

33:21I also think not a lot of people understand the like unglamorous side of venture capital. And so they're not tricky. It's not tricky to answer that question. But I feel like there's like more to be said and more questions to ask a person. And then I think, you know, just a sign of the times is I find it really hard at the moment to be helpful to people who are coming out of some of those like big tech firms from middle management roles as they're trying to reinvent themselves and reinvent their careers. And so I wish I could be more helpful sometimes in those situations. Amazing. Thank you so much, Zoe.

33:51This has been super interesting. Thank you, Amy. Thanks for having me. And that is all we have time for. Please keep listening weekly for more interviews with the movers and shakers of Europe's most fascinating tech businesses. Please rate, review and share this podcast if you enjoyed it. And please take a very, very quick listener survey, which you can find linked in the episode description. We'd love to hear what you make of the show and any ideas you have for how we can make it more useful, entertaining and or relevant. This podcast was produced by the stellar Maya de Rampel Hornby and to get your own live advice from Zoe, grab your tickets for the Sifted Summit which is happening in London on the 8th and 9th of October where she will be on stage.