298. Meet the BloomsYard Coffee Shop Founder with 6+ Locations w/ Bharti Radix

0:00Amardeep Parmar:We've got Bharti here today. So we've done events with Bharti at your Bloomsyard. So thank you for hosting us. But people who don't know, what's Bloomsyard? What do you have? Bloomsyard is a cafe wine bar. So it incorporates all the things that I love. So coffee, wine and well-being tea for the in-between and then kind of all the foodie bits to go with it. So that's trying to be an all-day concept, not really far into the night. It's more like the wine side is more like, let's have a drink after work. Let's catch up. It's not, let's go and have shots. And we've got six sites currently. We're a business that started in COVID, which some people think is absolutely mad.

0:49Amardeep Parmar:Where are the locations? So Liverpool Street, which you've been to. And just around the corner from there is Finsbury Avenue. So there are two that are quite close together. Then I've got Islington, Marble Arch, Regent's Place, which is near Warren Street Station. And then one which is much further out, which is Watford. But that's at the Tube Station there. And it's got a really great commuter belt community. And then, yeah, and I, that one, basically people are like, why Watford? And it's because I used to live there at the time, recently moved. But yeah, it's a great location. What was the first location?

1:26Well, actually, first location was another one in Watford, which has now closed. So I've actually opened seven in the period of time, but I closed that one. And that one, it was in the shopping centre. It was, you know, quite early on in COVID and the shopping centre was having a rough time. People were closing sites. So lots of empty units. And it was just an opportunity for me to trial the concept. You know, could I actually do it? Did I have it in me to fit it out, run it, you know? So real test. And so I took one of the smaller units, which now in hindsight wasn't right for us. I know that now.

2:05And that's why I closed it, along with lots of other operational issues of being inside a shopping centre. But yeah, so that was the first. Second was Liverpool Street. Then back to Watford at the Tube Station. Regent's Place, Marble Arch, Finsbury Avenue and then Islington was the last one which was just about a year ago so they just had their first birthday.

2:28Amardeep Parmar:And you said about testing the concept in the first one what was your idea to make it different to like other coffee shops out there and other coffee shops in a shopping centre? Well I just was thinking about what I wanted what I would like from from a coffee shop wine bar mix of the two um and so I had very like strong ideas about what it would look like that kind of um not totally polished sleek but some elements of that along with like the polished concrete the you know the real wood floors um you know and then And so those sleeker bits or the nicer bits would be like the velvet tops on the stools or something like that.

3:12And so it brought those things together. And I just wanted, you know, worked really hard my whole career before this.

3:21Amardeep Parmar:And I was still working hard now, I'm assuming. But, you know, I really wanted a place to be able to go and escape the hustle and bustle. And actually, that's the essence of what Bloomsyard is. So any customer that walks in should feel calm, but also that the space is productive. So you could go there and work on your laptop all day and be fueled by us. And then or meet a friend or go there for breakfast or have a meeting or, you know, so it's trying to be spaces for all of those kind of things. I think lots of people dream about building a coffee shop someday or a restaurant. Yeah. How long did you think about this before you actually did it?

4:03Amardeep Parmar:It was like a dream for like a long time or was it spontaneous? I mean, I, and people say this to me all the time as well, that like everyone's always like the hundreds and thousands of people that will say to me, I always wanted to have my own coffee shop. And that for me wasn't like just about being a coffee shop, but it was more about having a business. And it wasn't like really direct to say, I want a coffee shop, but in my, you know, holidays on the beach, time to think and dream about what the future might hold. It would be a hospitality business. So it's always around hospitality. So I have thoughts about like a bar, a pub, a restaurant.

4:43But actually, Cafe Wine Bar is actually incorporating most of those things. And it just felt like the best of all of it.

4:53Amardeep Parmar:And what made you pull the trigger and start it? Do you know, I was in before, just before COVID, I was in the CFO role for a coffee company that's not around anymore. But it was 30 million turnover. We had like 70 sites of the UK, 22 in the US, some franchise coffee vans that went around. And I was there for 11 months. And it was madness. That 11 months of my life, every waking second I was working because there was just so many things happening. We were buying up these distressed, smaller, independent businesses and trying to turn them around. But they were coming in so thick and fast that they were just piling up.

5:31We couldn't get to the bottom of it. You know, no kind of completion accounts or anything to help us start even. And whilst I'm a completer finisher and I'm a fixer, I just couldn't do it. So I was basically after 11 months, I was just burnt out completely and utterly. And so I quit dramatically. And then like two weeks later, we went into lockdown. So I went into lockdown unemployed and I was like, God, do I want to take another job like that? I've worked so hard to get to here. So there's part of you that says, you've done all this, like I did my accountancy qualification, I did my degree and, you know, I've worked all of this way, like doing all the late nights and all of that.

6:16Shouldn't I just carry on? Shouldn't I just go and get another CFO role? And I was like, that filled me with dread at that point whilst of course I wanted to use everything and not waste it all my experience etc I was just like well actually I don't want to live like that so it was this turning point in my mind of like no I need to do something else I need to do something for me and so in lockdown it's quiet and with the support of my family as well which is super important in you know deciding I was like well let me just try this and I thought we're at home and we can't do anything so I'll start it as an online business so Bloomsyard actually started as an online like e-shop selling tea coffee and wine and you know I was just like packaging stuff up and sending it out and all people were doing during COVID was ordering stuff to enjoy at home so it worked and it's good so like by this point I've got the brand that like the name the logo the colors and all of that so and and now this website to be able to sell stuff on and one of my um one of my contacts in my network um a property agent was like well what are you going to do with this do you want a site I was like oh one day that would be nice so it was never my plan for it to turn into anything as big as it is today um at all I just thought it would be nice to have one and it'd just be nice for me that's I was just thinking I need to do this for me and then before I knew it I'd signed up with her I opened this one in the in the shopping center and then it just snowballed and it turned into like what was seven sites now six sites but yeah you said as well that

8:00Amardeep Parmar:that first site that it wasn't quite the right space in the end and you had a bit of operational difficulties and things too what did you learn from that oh so much like the importance of like how to choose the right location and even size and shape of the location so and this was like this weird kind of triangular um unit no space for a real kitchen or anything and what that meant for me was um it just limited what I could sell so I'm thinking in my head at that time which I know would never work now but I didn't know it then right so I was like oh I'll just sell like coffee and tea and like some pastries it's not enough you know people want a sandwich or a yogurt pot or a something you know like other things and then I didn't have kitchen space to be able to do that and then it's also like um how much fridge space have I got for milk so how many deliveries can I get and how can I fit that in and there's like all of these little things um and then in terms of seating covers was about 12 and actually think about it logically now when people are shopping when they stop for their coffee more times than not they want to sit down and they've got bags and they you know so 12 seats quite squished together was not enough so then I was losing customers to Starbucks and Costa that were downstairs in the shopping center that had much bigger seating areas and then for those that just wanted to grab a coffee and go Starbucks and Costa again downstairs by doorways also one versus me so once people would come in and say oh this is lovely and really liked it and love the coffee it just didn't work I went up a mall central mall opposite Primark and I thought oh yes this is great footfall and all of that but it just didn't work for me yeah and because obviously your experience of being at a coffee place beforehand as well is that kind of what kept you going because like if that first location maybe wasn't quite right what made you decide actually it's the location that's wrong I need to change this and because a lot of people might just give up at that point yeah what kept you going I'd actually started doing the deal for the next one already so I had to kind of keep going but also um you know for the 16 years before before covid I'd worked in finance but always in hospitality businesses and so I'd worked for um Jamie Oliver from when he had one restaurant to about 44 I'd worked for the draft house pub company from three sites to 16 sites after three and a half years so it was big quick expansion and then we sold the business to Brewdog and I'd worked with Brewdog for a bit and then I went on to this coffee company so in that way I've seen I've seen sites I've seen growth I've seen us close sites I've seen you know and and actually you could say in that way that growing, growing brands is what I know.

10:57And so I didn't even think like, I guess I was doing the deal for the Liverpool street site, the second one, kind of straight away.

11:05Amardeep Parmar:And obviously the Liverpool street site is massive. Yeah. So like as an early one that you went for, like I guess I don't know the economics behind it. Was that quite a big risk? Was there something which you could do in like, okay, this is like, how did, what made you go for prime location at scale? That's actually the beauty of starting in COVID because there were deals to be done. So having worked in the industry and also as a finance director or CFO, I had this great network of landlords in London. And I knew what it meant to put together a landlord pack. So I knew that that's what landlords would want to see if I wanted to apply or try to get a site with one of them.

11:49So when I built the website, I used all the copy and all of that and pictures from Pinterest and Google because I had nothing to take a photo of at that point. Put this landlord pack together, sent it out to all the landlords. So the landlord of Liverpool Street, which is British land, came back to me and they're like, let's have a Zoom call. And then, you know, whilst I had no trading history, which is also a barrier, they knew who I had worked with and for. and so I had that as my kind of backup or of my background of what I might be able to do and and then you know that in in normal circumstances a site like Liverpool Street would go out to tender in my case there was no one so it was kind of like with me and they showed it to me and we went in like social distancing and while it was still a building site and they showed it to me and I was like yeah I want it and I just made the decision and I went for it But what that meant was when they were opening, because it was still being built at that time, the building wasn't fully let.

12:55We were still in COVID. When I opened, it was like still takeaway only. But what that meant is that the landlord basically gave me the best deal that I could get on rent, helped me with rates and things like that. And that allowed me to open in that kind of really quiet time. and that really quiet time was really difficult because it was like May 21 and that period of time from May 21 until September was really bad. I'd hired a team and they just left because we were getting like 10 transactions in a day or something. But when that September hit, that's when everybody was going back to work and kids were going back to school and then suddenly overnight in this first week of September, our sales like tripled.

13:44And then it was like, oh, my God, I need to hire people. But, yeah, so COVID allowed me to take that risk.

13:53Amardeep Parmar:And do you think you had that long-term vision when you went for that site being like, OK, things are going to open up again. And in next year, whenever it's going to be, that there is going to be that massive footfall. Like, how far were you planning in advance for these things? Well, you know, I didn't know. because it's easier to plan if I'd had some trade before COVID and I didn't know what was going to happen after. Would people come back? All of a sudden, everybody can work from home. So are they going to carry on? I had an idea of what the sales could be, but that's been way exceeded. So yes, Liverpool Street is a good site.

14:34Amardeep Parmar:So you said earlier as well how originally when you did the like the e-shop as well like online you didn't actually think about how many sites we're going to get. No. But then because of your experience for other companies before like where did you start thinking okay so you obviously got the second site we had the first site but when you just start thinking about this as like a model of like okay we're gonna have loads of sites as opposed to just one. I think it's just because opportunities came in front of me and I was just like oh yeah like so the third site which was at the tube station you know I'd pass it all the time on my way into London and like for 50 years before it'd been this like little hairdressing um unit and there's no other coffee around and I was like I have to have it it has to be there's nothing else around there's little news agents on one corner and then there was this hairdresser's and like no coffee so um you know I just and actually that I was in a tender process for that one.

15:32And I came second. So I didn't get it at first. It was going to go to another barber's. And then three weeks or four weeks after they told me that I didn't get it. I got a phone call and they're like, the barbers have dropped out. Do you want it? So I was like, yes. So in that way, I just saw this opportunity and I was like, that has to be mine. Almost just kind of saw it in the future. And I was just like, I have to go for it. And then I guess it was like, okay, this is actually going all right. What's next? What's next? What's next? And I think the kind of person that I am, I was like, one or two sites wasn't enough.

16:09At six, I'm feeling comfortable. So, yeah.

16:12Amardeep Parmar:So, are there plans for more in the future then? I would like more, but I mean, hospitality is so tough to trade in right now. All the stuff with business rates, continuous increase of wages, NI, food costs. It's tough. It is really tough. So at the minute, we're trying to settle down, see what levers we can pull. You know, some of my sites are really profitable, some not so much. I'm going to get them all there. So like right now, I focus, that's my focus. And with six, I'm not like, when's the next one? I mean, maybe somewhere far back in my head I'm thinking about that but um yeah I'm not stopping at six but right now I'm just trying to settle down build it up and then I'll go again and with your background as well what mistakes do you think lots of other people make when they try to start a coffee shop or a cafe that you were able to avoid because you've seen yeah such a big variety beforehand yeah I mean actually that's like a massive that's a massive bonus that I've got the finance background right because I'll speak to loads of coffee shop entrepreneurs and they'll be like so you don't have to hire anybody to do the finance stuff and you know because I've got that I know what my model needs to be I know what those metrics are and just by my very nature of everything that I've done before this I'm constantly monitoring these things like food margins and you know labor margins and things like that and so and so I know how to pull levers to tweak these things you know I've had experience of doing that to make the business profitable and then actually if I'm monitoring those and the numbers are way off I'm gonna know I need to close that site or do something very drastic and so having that finance background and then being an entrepreneur and starting this business has been like the biggest thing the biggest plus I think because I know how it should one to make it make money and then it's just about me doing that with my team to get there.

18:16Amardeep Parmar:Hello, hello. I hope you've enjoyed the show so far. I'm Amadit Palma, co-founder of BayHQ and the host of this show. For those of you who don't know, BayHQ is the community for high growth Asian heritage founders and investors in the UK. Over 7 ,500 people have attended our events, 200 people have been for our impact programs and obviously there's been over 250 episodes of this podcast. If you want to join us and take part in the program and come to the events, go to www.fahihq.com forward slash join. We also just released our first ever book called Startups for Outsiders, which you can get on Amazon now and the link is in the bio.

18:57Amardeep Parmar:Hope to see you soon at our event. Hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. So what's the bit that you think you've had to learn the most and grow the most? Obviously, you came in with the finance background, but then there's so many elements running with cafe. yeah where do you think that when you started to where you are today has been the biggest growth area yeah so um different revenue streams for sure so you know i started off saying you know like i'm just going to sell coffee and pastries well actually it's had you know like i've had to really develop that food side of things the sandwiches the salads the soups and things like that um but also that that's not that's not enough so none of none of the sites would work with only the counter service.

19:36So I then have three revenue streams. So counter service and then corporate catering. So in that, and I'll say it to you because you've been there, but in that building at Liverpool Street, there's loads of offices and there's loads of meeting rooms all the way along one side. They have our menu in for the corporate catering. So every time someone's having a meeting, so whether it's like breakfast, lunch, afternoon cakes and tea and stuff, they're ordering from us. and that actually it went so well there that we then pushed it out to all other sites and you know at the beginning the system of how that worked was terrible you know because what did I know about how to pull pull this together and how to how to make a system for how people are going to order from us in terms of corporate catering and so it was a pdf menu someone had to email us we had to email it back another 20 emails about um allergies and requests and stuff then I had to raise an invoice then I had to chase the payment and it was long today that's totally turned around you go onto our website you can order you can put all of your requirements you pay and then the order comes through to us and it's lovely but now that means that I can put that across all the sites so that's number two and then number three is using our space for events so you know where I say we kind of we're not late night we can be if we hold an event and then so for those events we've got the wine and the beer and the soft drinks and all of that but then it was um canapes and nibbles and stuff like the development of that food side of things to push that spend for and people want that as well um so yeah I've really had to kind of look at what that what it's going to take to get those sales to make money.

21:25And then on the operational side, whilst I was working for like small businesses that were always expanding in a head office team that doesn't expand as quickly, everyone in head office has got to kind of get involved. And so I was learning those things along the way. But, you know, I went and got trained as a barista. And I, you know, because I wanted to know every single job in the business and how to do it, to make coffee perfectly, steam the milk, do a bit of latte art. So I learned all of that before I opened the first shop so that I could do it and get it perfect to then pass on to the team that I later recruited for them to kind of carry that on.

22:05Amardeep Parmar:When you're picking, say, the menu and how the food is going to be, how did you come across that? Because obviously you worked in the industry before, but at the same time I guess you want to have something cohesive where the menu feels like it all works together. yeah how did you decide that as well I don't know it's really it was really just on my personal experiences having gone to lot and and I will actually go and research and I'll go to lots of different coffee shops cafes or places where you can have breakfast brunch lunch and I'll see what they're doing and I'll pick the bits that I like best and then I'll put that together and say with the marketing as well right so the bloom shard you have in Liverpool Street it's like a massive site but then unless you knew it was there you might not find it yeah so how did you go about getting people to know that that site even existed and the other sites that's actually because also all of the signage outside none of it says blooms yard and we have like no front door um so like yeah it's it was really difficult um at the beginning but actually because the space is so kind of versatile in that way um that people could work from there have meetings events etc it kind of just spread by word of mouth.

23:15And I think, you know, like when you go there, you're like, I'm going to come back here again. So just the very kind of atmosphere and the way that things are set up in our service and the quality of the product, I'm hoping this is right, but that's why people come back.

23:29Amardeep Parmar:Yeah. And then tell other people and then they come back and bring other people. So it's just growing and, you know, like, you'll know that some days you can't even get a seat there now. Yeah. And how do you think your role has shifted as well? So obviously at the beginning, you said you learned all the different roles. Yeah. But now you have six sites. You're going to have to prioritize your time to what's most effective for you, right? Yeah. And actually, that's actually a really good question because I don't spend that much time working on Bloomsyard as I did. And that was always the goal because I didn't want to be making coffee all day, every day, covering shifts, et cetera.

24:03Of course, I was doing that for the first about three and a half years. and then I set up the structure of the team to then after three and a half years um I am well I promoted um a lady that was general manager then she became multi-site general manager two sites and then she was promoted to operations manager which I love because I love that kind of story of how she's progressed within the business um and also for the fact that I've worked with her now for coming up to three years. You know, she's somebody that I can trust. And I know she's going to get the job done. And I know we have the same kind of way of thinking.

24:42And that's really key to be able to hand your baby over to somebody else to run. And so from the point that she was in place, everybody in the business now reports into her, and she reports into me. And so from that point I kind of stepped away and I've allowed her to kind of thrive in that role and actually I probably spend about two days a week on Bloomsyard and that'll be me going into the sites like visiting saying hi to everybody showing my face just checking all is good and catching up with my arts manager and the head office team and then the rest of my time I've actually launched another business, which is Hospitality B, so hospitalityb.com.

25:26And that's using my skills for consultancy. So I can go and help other hospitality entrepreneurs, startups, other businesses that might need the hospitality finance side of stuff. So yeah, I'm kind of doing two things now, which is great because actually I've got this wonderful creation of Bloomsyard that is going well. And, you know, like I love what I've built with that. And then I'm still using all my other skills and expertise to help other businesses. So yeah, it's pretty good.

25:59Amardeep Parmar:Do you find like you've got the balance right in the moment? Yeah. And I spend more time with my children than I ever did. You know, and like whether I'm helping with pickups and dropouts, my husband and I, we like share that. And you know, taking them to all their activities and spending time with them not working all weekends and not having to drop stuff because someone called in sick and I've got to go work a shift because that doesn't happen anymore. How do you think your hours have evolved over time? You said at the first three and a half years, then that's when you got the operations manager in place.

26:29Amardeep Parmar:Was like a big cliff at that point or were you already slowing down and like taking less hours before that? No, so because before that point, everybody was reporting into me and that's of all different sites. And so, you know, every lateness, sickness, problem, you know, everything was coming into me and it was too much for me. And then as well as, you know, doing all the head office side and the finance side. So once I handed that over, it was July. So then it was summer holidays and I just took five weeks off. I took five weeks off to spend with my girls and we had a great summer holidays. And so I did, I did kind of do that, but then that is our kind of quiet time you know August is our is our quietest month and and then when I came back in September we kind of just aligned on stuff and then it started gradually moving away from me and you said that you had like the long hours at your previous job beforehand but where do you think that work ethic comes from to be able to do what you're doing and get to the point where you could hand over I mean it's got to be my upbringing right I come from I come from that Indian background that I'm sure that other Asians can relate to, my mum and dad came to this country and had to work hard.

27:44And I think that's instilled in many with the same kind of story. It was never really, well, when I was growing up, my parents, I don't think, thought that I would ever start a business. You know, it was probably that kind of traditional. I guess the story for me was that I would get married and have children and I might have a little side part-time job, but that was never really what I wanted. And, you know, I had to kind of fight for that for myself. And I think, you know, I just have this determination to be something and grow something and create something. But, yeah, I think it must come from my parents coming to this country, having to build that up you know we we had a lovely home when I was growing up we had you know I had the the trainers that I wanted and you know like all of these kind of things and that's because my parents worked hard to get that for us and I guess that's where it comes from and obviously went down the finance route as well but with that finance background because I think see I think

28:53Amardeep Parmar:we've got our self-returns are due pretty soon self-tax returns if it's due pretty soon do you think that just not being able that you don't have to worry about the finances has really helped you because i know like it's only business startup and they kind of they get really excited by the ideas and the marketing and you think that finance background has actually stead you really well and then how did you get the team in place to cover the bits where maybe you weren't as strong in well i guess i had um i had a lot of people in the industry that i could call upon in terms of ops and stuff so like there's all like and and that just stems back to how important it is to make sure you've got a massive network of people like I was constantly networking going to events meeting people talking to people and keeping in touch with people that I'd met and so what that meant was that if I had a question like oh how do I do this ops wise or something I always had somebody that was on the other end of the email or phone or that would come and meet me for a coffee to talk me through and help me with that.

29:53And actually, so that also helped me to understand what I needed, which meant I could better recruit my team.

30:02Amardeep Parmar:And I'm not saying it always went well. And I have been through my fair share of not quite the right people in roles that I completely have nothing, no knowledge of, which is the marketing side and stuff. So like the ops and finance I was of doing along the way. But marketing is like completely not my bag. And so lots of money has been spent on various people in marketing roles that were not right. And then, you know, I couldn't lead them as well because I didn't know. So and when you're starting a business, you can't spend that much on marketing people. And so I was wrongly hiring junior people that didn't have the experience and then I couldn't lead them and so we're in this like weird place of like oh god this is just not working and what I actually needed in terms of marketing was somebody that knew it all that could do it all that had loads of experience more like a CMO rather than a junior marketing and um and actually I found that now and the way that I make it work is that she's fractional.

31:07And so having a fractional CMO means that she can do website and social and email marketing and like help with the promotional and all of those things because she's worked in the industry that long that she's got that. But being fractional means that I don't have to pay the full salary, which I couldn't afford at, you know, at those points.