An Interview with a Hamas Leader

0:00Today on State of the World, an interview with a senior Hamas leader.

0:09You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories, up close, where they're happening. I'm Greg Dixon. Though Hamas' war with Israel was in Gaza, much of the senior leadership, at least those that haven't been killed or captured, are in the Gulf state of Qatar, on the outskirts of the capital, Doha. Recently, NPR interviewed a senior Hamas leader there. Among other things, he said Hamas is ready to lay down its weapons for up to 10 years. NPR's Daniel Estrin tells us about their conversation, which comes as Hamas is getting ready to negotiate the next stage of the Gaza ceasefire.

0:46A 20-minute drive away from the skyscrapers of dazzling downtown Doha is the suburb where Hamas' senior leaders are based. Okay, so this is a beautiful street of tan buildings, villas, palm trees, decorated walls, and there's a policeman in a car right outside. Hamas security guards usher us into a parlor room with a Palestinian flag, a Hamas flag, and a photo of the Jerusalem skyline on the wall. We meet senior Hamas negotiator Basim Naim. He was sitting with Hamas officials in September when Israel tried to kill them. We were near to end the meeting. at 3.45 p.m. We hear the first missile striking the compound.

1:38To be honest, we were not expecting such an attack at that moment. At that moment, Hamas officials were gathered to review a U.S. ceasefire proposal they had received the day before. He and the other Hamas negotiators survived the airstrikes. The strikes hit an office they had been sitting in just a few minutes before. He says they had moved locations as a security precaution. That failed Israeli strike led to a U.S. success, getting the sides to agree to a ceasefire. Today, Hamas has one more Israeli hostage body to hand over. And then comes the next phase of the ceasefire with Hamas disarming.

2:15Naeem says Hamas is willing to negotiate over its weapons. We are ready to lay down these weapons. I mean not to use it for 5, 7, 10 years, as long as we are not attacked. Because the second question is always, OK, Palestinians have to be disarmed. What about the other side? Naim says Hamas will not disarm unless there are negotiations toward a Palestinian state. We asked the White House and the Israeli government to respond. Neither commented on the details of Hamas's offer, a disarmament limited in time and the demand for talks toward a Palestinian state. A White House official said Gaza will be fully demilitarized according to President Trump's peace plan and the U.S.

3:01expects Hamas to abide by the deal. An Israeli official says Hamas will have no future under the plan. It will be disarmed and Gaza will be demilitarized. We asked the Hamas officials about their decision to launch the attack which killed around 1 ,200 people on October 7th, two years ago, given the tens of thousands of Palestinians killed in Israel's retaliation. Naim said Hamas should not be held responsible for the devastation of Israel's response. If you are going to ask me about what happened during these two years, this has nothing to do with October 7th, because history didn't start on October 7th.

3:39And this has not to do with the response of a state. If someone decides to commit a genocide, this is not the mistake or the fault of someone who defended himself. Israel rejects the charge of genocide in Gaza. We asked if Hamas achieved the goals it laid out in its October 7th attack. Yes, Hamas has achieved some of the goals of Palestinian people. Before October 7th, the Palestinian question was nearly forgotten. He said the war brought Palestinians back to the top of the world's agenda and turned public opinion against Israel, even in the U.S. Naeem called that a strategic win and irreversible.

4:21Daniel Estrin, NPR News, Doha, Qatar.

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