Even Amid Violent Crackdowns, Iran’s Protests Continue

0:00Today on State of the World, even amid violent crackdowns, Iran's protests continue. You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories, up close where they're happening. It's Monday, January 12th. I'm Greg Dixon. In Iran, popular protests continue to sweep the country. Rights groups say hundreds of Iranians have been killed in the government crackdown on the protests, which are seen as a challenge to the theocratic regime. President Trump has warned that he may hit Iran, quote, very hard for the violence against protesters. Trump also said the U.S.

0:42was set to meet with Iranian officials. Iran has said channels of communication with the U.S. remain, quote, open. In a few minutes, we hear from an Iranian-American about why these protests are different. First, NPR's Ruth Sherlock reports on what we know about what is happening inside Iran. And a warning, this report does include the sound of gunfire. Relialations, grief and also rage at this funeral in Tehran for people killed in anti-government protests. In this video, as the coffin is carried, mourners shout, I will kill whoever killed my brother. What began as protests over the collapse of the country's currency in an economy already squeezed by international sanctions have spread and morphed into furious calls to end Iran's theocracy.

1:35Videos posted online from the city of Mashhad, the birthplace of Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, show streets where protesters have set up barricades and lit fires. NPR has not been able to independently authenticate these videos. They show demonstrators in masks clashing with security forces. The protests are now nationwide. Over the course of 15 days, we've seen over 580 unique protest points in every province in more than 185 cities. Skylar Thompson is the deputy director of Human Rights Activists in Iran, or HRA, a monitoring group that is based in the United States but maintains extensive networks across Iran.

2:22She says some 89 security officers have died in the clashes, but that the death toll among protesters in the government's crackdown is far higher, more than 500 people. NPR cannot independently verify these numbers.

2:40Outside a morgue just south of Tehran, relatives grieve as they find loved ones among dozens of bodies wrapped in black body bags that lie spread out on the concrete ground. Iranian state television has framed the popular protests as actions fermented by the United States, which has long been hostile to Iran's regime, and by Israel. Iran's foreign minister, Abbas Arashie, told foreign diplomats in Iran that the protests had turned violent to give the US an excuse to intervene militarily. President Trump did open a window for diplomacy, telling reporters on Air Force One that, A, quote, meeting was being set up, but in the same breath threatened military action if the killing of protesters didn't stop.

3:29Lina Khatib, a visiting scholar at the Harvard Kennedy School Middle East Initiative, says this is a critical moment. The regime in Iran is the weakest it's been since the Islamic Republic came into existence in 1979. Geopolitically, Khatib says, Iran relies on proxy militias to project its power. But the collapse of the pro-Iran regime in Syria a little over a year ago and Israel's decimation of allies Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon have dealt a serious blow. Khatib says Iran poured countless state funds into these militias. Now people are seeing that this sacrifice and investment that they had been made to do has not been worth it because the proxies are defeated militarily.

4:17Whether this is the beginning of the end of the regime remains to be seen. While the protests are large, there is no sign yet of defections or dissent in the security apparatus that maintains the country's theocracy in power. Ruth Sherlock, NPR News. Holly Daggers has been following the protests in Iran. She grew up there and is a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. She also curates a weekly newsletter called The Iranist. She spoke to NPR's Leila Faddle. You know, Holly, I just want to start by asking you about your family in Iran with the communications blackout. When was the last you heard from them?

4:58Do you know how they are? Well, the communications blackout started on Thursday night in Iran. And so it's basically been Thursday since we've heard from them. And it's not just me, it's Iranians across the diaspora around the world. I know that some people have been able to get a hold of their families and friends. There's been messages pouring in from Starlink if you have a friend, a neighbor, a family member. But that's only 50 ,000 to 60 ,000 users across a country of 90 million. So effectively, much of the country, we don't know what's happening inside. And we're all relying on Starlink. This moment, these mass protests, do these feel different than what we've seen before?

5:41Given that Iran has been weakened on the global stage, its regional militias that it backs, Hezbollah, Hamas have been severely decimated. I mean, and now the U.S. is threatening to strike because of Iran's deadly crackdown on protests. Does it feel different? We say this every time there's a protest that it's different, but you highlighted very eloquently why it is this time, because of those issues from the outside. And I would say that really the sword of democles is hanging over that of the Islamic Republic, and that's the United States and Israel and whether they are planning to act. But I think it's important to note that since 2022, the Women's Life Freedom Uprising, I mean, and even before it, there's a consistent call for the overthrow of the Islamic Republic.

6:30And it's evident through the chance of the people because there's a sense that the systemic mismanagement, corruption and repression is not going to change. The regime is irredeemable and irreformable. And it's not something that I just say, but we have activists on the ground like Nobel laureate Nargis Mohamedy, who's now in solitary confinement, who said that this is really right now a fight between the survivalists of the regime and the overthrowers of the regime. So I think it's important to know that where we're at in terms of how the people inside the country feel. So many protesters have been killed, 500 by some estimates at this point.

7:11I mean, how does this violence compare to what we've seen when the regime has reacted in the past to protests? Well, that is the officially confirmed number. There's credible documentation. There's been 2 ,000 killed, and that's considered a conservative estimate. Given that there's a blackout, it's really hard to see what's happening on the ground. And it's important to note that the regime purposely turns off communications so the world doesn't get to see what's happening. But because they've committed mass atrocities like that before, in 2019, during the November protests, it's known as Bloody November, they killed 1 ,500 protesters, according to Reuters.

7:54And of course, crimes against humanity were committed during the 2022 uprising, according to the UN fact-finding mission. Would Iranians want American intervention? Right now, what Iranians want are two things. They want to have access to the world. I think it's important that they have some sort of access through direct-to-cell, which is provided by Starlink, which is for their cell phones if they have a 2020 cell phone onwards that gives them access to Starlink directly. But more importantly, they want a democratic transition. They've been calling for this regime to go for a long time. We've had activists on the ground talk about a constitutional assembly, talk about a referendum, and even Nagus Mahometes talked about a transition.

8:45We've also heard a call for a transition from the outside as well from former Crown Prince Rosa Pahlavi, who has offered himself as a transitional leader. I think the international community should be listening to these calls that are evident in the streets. And what do you make of this most recent news, President Trump saying that Iran has reached out for a meeting for negotiations? Well, quite frankly, it's disturbing because if he was to make some sort of deal, and I think of Venezuela in this context, though those are very two different countries, he'd be throwing the Iranian people who are currently risking their lives for freedom and much of the country under the bus.

9:29And that really worries me. And I know a lot of Iranians before the internet shut down, watching the events in Venezuela were concerned that something similar might be their fate. That was Holly Dagress with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy speaking to Leila Foddle.

9:56And that's the State of the World from NPR. Thanks for listening.