In short
Turkey’s rising influence in the Middle East amid shifting power after the Gaza war, conflict involving Iran, and a U.S. drawdown; Turkey seeks to lead a “new Middle East order.”
Guests/backgrounds
Asla Aydin Tashbash, director of the Turkey Project at the Brookings Institution; Eldad Benaron, senior researcher at the Peace Research Institute Frankfurt, expert on Turkey–Israel relations.
Key claims
Turkey is building power through a growing defense industry, mediation roles, and cultural “soft power,” including the Mecca Joint Defense Agreement (Saudi, Turkey, Pakistan) with NATO Article 5-style language and shared intelligence. Turkey’s ambitions are constrained by economic woes (inflation, weak currency) and difficulty extending influence beyond its periphery. Syria is Turkey’s “laboratory” after Assad’s 2024 collapse; Turkey’s reconstruction contracts and army rebuilding may conflict with Israel’s strategy to keep neighbors weak.
Notable examples
Mecca pact signing (Aug 7); Israel airstrike on a defunct northern Syria airbase (early August) allegedly to preempt Turkish forces; Erdogan’s U.N. General Assembly remarks accusing Israel of a “genocidal mindset” (Israel denies genocide); Israel–Turkey tensions after Oct 7, 2023, including walkouts and warnings that “Turkey is the new Iran.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTurkey's Growing Influence
0:36 to 1:33
Discussion on the shifting power dynamics in the Middle East and Turkey's role as a mediator.
“The wars in Gaza and in Iran are changing regional relations.”
The Mecca Joint Defense Agreement
1:33 to 2:45
Exploration of the historic pact signed by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan.
“It features NATO Article 5 style language that an attack on one country is an attack on all, and a promise to share defense intelligence.”
Challenges to Turkish Ambitions
2:45 to 4:09
Analysis of Turkey's economic issues and its military ambitions in the region.
“influence in the region will decline and Turkey will be there to step in.”
Israel-Turkey Relations
4:09 to 5:33
Investigation into the increasingly competitive dynamics between Israel and Turkey.
“Eldad Benaron is a senior researcher at the Peace Research Institute Frankfurt and an expert on Turkey-Israeli relations.”
Diplomatic Solutions and Challenges
5:33 to 6:08
Discussion on potential diplomatic efforts to ease tensions between Turkey and Israel.
“In September 2023, the country's two leaders shook hands in New York.”
Diplomatic Solutions and Challenges
6:20 to 6:50
Discussion on potential diplomatic efforts to ease tensions between Turkey and Israel.
“Dan Egan, VP of Behavioral Finance and Investing, explains why Betterment was designed to take the time-consuming work out of smart investing.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mint mobile.com. slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Today on State of the World, Turkey's quest for Mideast power.
0:26You're listening to State of the World from NPR, a human perspective on global events. It's Monday, September 28th. I'm Christine Arismath. In the Middle East, power dynamics are shifting. The wars in Gaza and in Iran are changing regional relations. The U.S. is signaling a desire to decrease its footprint in the region. Amidst these changes, the country of Turkey is growing in influence. A couple of factors play into this. Turkey has a growing defense industry, for instance. It's playing an important role as mediator in those multiple wars. And it has what's known as cultural soft power. As NPR's Hadil al-Shalqi reports from Istanbul, Turkey wants to cement itself as leader of a new Middle East order.
1:16On August 7th, the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Pakistan sat side by side at wooden desks in Mecca to sign a historic pact, the Mecca Joint Defense Agreement. It combines Saudi's oil wealth, Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and Turkey's expanding defense industry. It features NATO Article 5 style language that an attack on one country is an attack on all, and a promise to share defense intelligence. According to President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the pact also sends a message to the region.
1:53The step we took was for these three countries to come together and God willing send a signal to the Islamic world, he said this month at a youth conference. As the main driver of the pact, one of those signals could be that Turkey wants the region to know its positioning itself as the leader here. For nearly half a millennium, the Ottoman Empire controlled much of the region from Istanbul before collapsing after World War I. Asla Aydin Tashbash is director of the Turkey Project at the Brookings Institution. She says some in Erdogan's government today believe they have a responsibility to restore order to the nation-states that replaced the empire.
2:28There is a sense of a manifest destiny among Turkey's current ruling elite that Turkey is destined to be the region's heavyweight. Turkey also understands that the region is entering a post-U.S. phase after the war with Iran and the drawdown of U.S. military presence. And that's convenient for Turkey, says Aydin Dashbash. Without a clear U.S. win, gradually U.S. influence in the region will decline and Turkey will be there to step in. But Turkey's economic woes, including high inflation and a weak currency, undermines its ambitions, she says. That doesn't make Turkey a militarily or strategically weak country.
3:08But Ankara understands that it's been unable to translate its growing influence into a Turkish-led order beyond its immediate periphery. Its other major challenge might come from an increasingly aggressive Israel, which after the attacks of October 7, 2023, has tried to keep its neighbors militarily weak, Aydin Tashbash says. That includes Iran, long a dominant player across the region that's been seriously weakened by the U.S.-Israeli war. Aydin Tashbash says Syria has emerged as the laboratory for Turkey's growing influence. Following the collapse of the Assad regime in 2024, Turkey secured multi-billion dollar contracts for post-war Syrian reconstruction and is rebuilding its army.
3:52That cuts across Israel's own strategy for the neighborhood, according to Aydin Tashbash. Keeping their neighbors militarily suppressed, giving Israel freedom of action, and making sure that no power rises in the region enough to present a challenge to Israel. That means a decentralized and fragmented Syria, the southern part of which Israel now controls and shows no signs of ceding. Eldad Benaron is a senior researcher at the Peace Research Institute Frankfurt and an expert on Turkey-Israeli relations. In the past, we didn't see Israel and Turkey competing in terms of regional aspirations or trying to protect or expand their spheres of influence.
4:31In early August, Israel launched an airstrike targeting a defunct airbase in northern Syria. Israel said it was to preempt the deployment of Turkish forces. Turkey denied the move, and the U.S. officials called the strikes a, quote, unnecessary escalation. At this year's U.N. General Assembly, Erdogan blasted Israel for its actions in the war in Gaza.
4:57Before us stands a genocidal mindset that can never get enough of killing, he said, prompting the Israeli delegation to walk out. Israel denies allegations of genocide. Israeli politicians fueled in part by campaigning for upcoming national elections have cautioned about Turkey's growing power, like former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett in February. And from here I warn, Turkey is the new Iran. Menaron says it's possible that Israel and Turkey could see a future conflict. Israel and Turkey now increasingly view each other as zero-sumlands. But Turkey has had a longstanding, if frosty, relationship with Israel.
5:37In September 2023, the country's two leaders shook hands in New York. Aydin Tashbash says the U.S., a strong ally of both countries, could help rebuild that relationship. The Trump administration needs to come up with a diplomatic process to de-escalate initially and later on build a reasonable relationship between Turkey and Israel. However, she says, President Trump's volatile decision-making makes any long-term planning challenging. Hadil Alshalchi, NPR News, Istanbul.
6:20That's the State of the World from NPR. Thanks for listening. This message comes from Betterment. Dan Egan, VP of Behavioral Finance and Investing, explains why Betterment was designed to take the time-consuming work out of smart investing. I was doing all of these things that were pretty straightforward to implement. I just needed to spend my time doing them. Betterment automates the same practices so that I know I'm doing portfolio management and goal-based planning without me having to spend hours of my life doing it. Learn more at Betterment.com. Investing involves risk, performance not guaranteed.
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