talking straight w/ shon faye

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0:43Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Sean Faye, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing? i'm doing great i'm quite excited to be here yeah um do you know i had to have the whole the whole name of your podcast explained to me oh because i didn't really get that you were straight and then someone was not that long ago like i would say six months ago someone was like it's straight diva because he's straight and she's a diva yeah yeah because we used to say at the start and we stopped saying it and it was that time do you know that time where everybody was saying diva like uh like last year towards the end of last year everyone was calling everyone a diva yeah diva got to like linkedin stage of usage yeah that's the thing isn't it like i like with when like queer slang travels and then it's passe and then you've got like go back into the archive like actual queer people have to go back into the archives and be like right we're bringing back major yeah because everyone's like literally isn't it awful that it's like slay like slays not come back yet i feel like i feel like slays are going to be dead for like a year or two, which is such a shame because it's like, it was a timeless word.

1:54And then how did it trend? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think sickening. Because, because yeah, because, because I don't feel like, if you say to a straight person, sickening, they will be like, what the fuck are you talking about? And that's what you need. Yeah. Sickening. I say fierce. Fierce is good. What's next to go? Oh, to go. I feel like we as a podcast are probably responsible for this sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably our fault. clocking and clocking yes which is really because it's like because it's obviously like it's come from like trans people yeah yeah and so sometimes you're just seeing like random trick tock girlies being like clocking i've got cpt yeah literally but it's the thing especially and like gays be like clock the gag i'm like clock what guy queen like what are you clocking clock the guy like where are we but i know i i mean i'm just saying wake it up i i do like it though like i said recently that my therapist clocked my existential tea.

2:51I feel like the more, the kind of, the more haughty you get with it. Yeah, then it's better. Yeah. Oh, fucking hell. But I don't know what I'd be next to go. I don't think there's anything that's like, it was just when straight men were like, can I serve cunt? And it's like, that is just against the word. Like, it's just, it doesn't make sense. You don't want to be cunt because you're a man. I don't get it. Like, and it gets like lost and it gets in translation. The thing is, obviously I just, like the whole protect the dolls thing this year and obviously like i just did the glamour thing where like the term it was like the doll yeah it was framed that way and we had like a discussion and some of the interviews i did in the piece were like you know that there was a couple of like a couple of people involved that were like actually i'm not sure about this term yeah but it is like one of those things like when it travels further and further i'm like i want to be called a doll by like a certain kind of yeah hun right but i don't want to be called a doll by like I don't know some random member of the public and then suddenly it's like you're calling me a piece of paper yeah 100 % yeah not a real woman yeah I think that's yeah do you feel like people have like we kind of talk about this from our end on the podcast but do you feel like people feel like they have a parasocial relationship with you ever like walking down the street yeah yeah I would say so like especially like I put out a book on love and heartbreak right yeah really exposing yeah turns out that people tend to read books like that when they're going through something they over identify right they have a very strong connection to you and obviously like as well if people like listen to an audiobook because i read my own audiobooks um that's like 10 hours for my voice in their head when they're on the tube and stuff and i think it like that would that would create like a parasocial bond i don't find it like overwhelming i feel sometimes i get asked on instagram is it okay if i approach you or because i because i'd rather like i'd rather if people are going to approach you they're just confident about it.

4:42Right, right, right. Yeah. Whereas like what's sort of a bit more awkward sometimes, which happens relatively often is people approach, start talking to you like in a parasocial way. Yeah. Then realise what they've done, go into a meltdown and then it's like now I'm rescuing you. Now I'm rescuing you. Yeah, now they're saying sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm a bit like, I know you're probably busy. I'm like, well, you've stopped me as I'm not that busy anymore. Like, yeah. Sometimes it is kind of fab though. I love it. I was walking down the street recently with someone that like, yeah doesn't really know much about my work and like they were genuinely gagged by it they were like does that happen often i was like yeah yeah you don't want to say yes but it's also like yeah i was out with my wife's family and they like and his two little nephews and like someone stopped me and then he was like does that happen often you're like how do you explain to a kid he's like why are people stopping you it's like because i say vile things online you know i mean like trying to explain to a do you have people just constantly come up to you asking for relationship advice um no not like not advice whenever i do and ask me anything on instagram like i get a lot of that which is how i originally got my vogue column was because like um people were like oh you should do a relationship advice column yeah right um like uh liam hess at vogue um asked if i wanted to do one for them but like i think it's more just like people um people will try and relate to me by being like, oh, I went through a breakup work two years ago or whatever, and it was like, you know, you really captured that.

6:16Or there was a period where I was like, really in my celibacy bag, and I kind of wrote a couple of sub stacks about that. And then people just coming up to me, like I don't know how, when I'm with people being like, I'm celibate too. And I was like, I love your voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, not post-RLs. god yeah no it's the same we we we say the same like we get like people people be like how's the cat and you're like what and they're like the cat and you're like who and then like oh the cat yes she's fine she's just at home doing nothing do you know what i mean being a cat um but it's nice i suppose i appreciate it i'm surprised that you say that though i thought like you would be kind of a both in like interviews but also just like general interactions like people would be burdening you with like help me sometimes book signings i've had that with both books actually like um i mean my first book was a really good like grounding in that because it was so fucking wild because when i talked toured around the uk like it's different in london where there's like relatively often like maybe trans cultural events but when you go to like devon yeah and you speak at a sixth form college and like every queer person in the county yeah is that yeah and then you've got like random stealth trans people that like you don't tell anyone that they're trans like like like disclosing to you yeah no one in my life knows and you're like i'm an author but it was kind of it was kind of i'm not therapist but it was kind of like yeah it was a good it was a good training and like i guess how to receive that because yeah i i mean yes i could be like oh i have like i have but one i quite like chatting to people and i quite like hearing and having that exchange with people sometimes it is a little bit unpredictable and it can be very intense on one side because i don't really have any context but i feel like you can learn to like receive it in a gracious way right um but yeah it can be it can be strange for sure yeah for sure we have like a lot of um younger trans listeners who are like i live in the middle of nowhere what the fuck do i do and like feels so like we feel bad almost because we just tell them like get to london it's like it's such a hard thing to do to get into but like the value it feels like the value of being in a city is so um priceless yeah i mean i imagine so i mean i i grew up in bristol so like i'm a city girl through right i'll go for like three days in the countryside and be like go and say air lift me out of here my first day gorgeous mountains lovely little rural cottage and then by day three I'm like I have not had a note flat white in three days literally no that is it to me me like I always say I'm like I actually can't I always like make up in my head that I'd love to like move out of London and buy a house somewhere but it can't happen it can't happen like I just yeah so the royalties from these books aren't going to take you to the Cotswolds anytime soon I don't think they are no I yeah I mean like they wouldn't even take me to Margate Margate's funny because like there's quite like I know quite a lot of people that have moved to Margate because it's kind of a bit of a queer enclave also it's where a lot of people move to get sober or get off cooking yeah I think only because really yeah I think only because dealers there are actually like apparently just stop at 9pm and you just can't pick up at 9pm which I just think for some people just regulates their addictive tendencies it's funny how that rule of the countryside shops shutting early applies to the drug dealers also yeah literally but like when you go down to margate they do try and recruit you and i'm just yeah that seaside life it ain't for me it's fun in summer but in winter like i do like a wintry beach but like for a day and you know that you're getting back on the train in the evening or the next day do you know what i mean i think margate is one of the most overrated oh my god same i think it's dreadful have you ever seen um the hours with nicole kidman playing virginia wolf where she's got the prosthetic nose and there's a thing in the train station and she's just like she wants to move back to london and she's been moved to the country's like as if i like mental health problems and she just screams like i'm dying in this town

10:27um sean i wanted to ask you okay so as someone who was raised catholic right we're gonna go there you were no no you right i was yeah like what do you think of this kind of um i guess like alternative hipster move to go to like trad like across pop culture i feel like whether it's i mean it used to be like red scare or like you know that sort of thing and now it kind of feels like there's a little catholic resurgence and i wonder if you had any kind of diagnosis on it um yes oh

11:02Shon Faye:God, Red Scare. Do you know what? I've only listened to Red Scare once and it was after I had work done. Yeah. I'll admit that on this podcast. I'll admit that I didn't wake up looking like that. Please don't share. Keep it here. Yeah, don't tell the turfs. And I remember I was like anesthetized and I was like, I'm going to try this. Worst time to try it. And like kind of like getting to the point what like yeah red scare is i always found it horrifying i always found it horrifying i never bought what they were selling um but yeah i think well yeah i think it like it seems like in in new york there's this kind of like certain kind of dime square like irony edge lord to the max yeah yeah which i'm like okay but it it feels like in some cases it's more of an aesthetic thing to be like lol got baptized yeah yeah yeah look at me in my gown yeah but then at the same because it depends if these are people that like maybe not to gatekeep but if you like grew up catholic then maybe i could understand because like yeah i definitely like there's a long tradition madonna lady gaga there's a long tradition of like doing a bit of like you know like playful blasphemy um if you were raised catholic and i do that and obviously like yeah i feel like catholic aesthetics and stuff really infiltrate the way like my writing and stuff like that so i like rosalia for example yeah it's like she's catalan right i'm kind of yeah i understand why she's like playing with those concepts but if it's just like yeah like someone that because i think catholicism probably works quite well on an aesthetic level yeah that it just feels like it works well for social media but i am like guys it's like an institutionally it's kind of quite a fucked up yeah yeah also there is a pie there is a pipeline to that to just being a conservative yeah and like i feel like some of the people drawn to it like you know i don't know like there are like many things they'll either drop it but for some people it's one of those things when people are like playing around with like conservative politics in an irony edgy way like cut to five years like more often than not they actually just are just right 100 100 % agree.

13:21I think it's very interesting to see the people that are coming out of the woodworks specifically like straight presenting people if they're not straight then soz boz but like for example like the young lean subway take like where he was basically saying we should start going back to like marriage. We need to go back we need to stop partying we need to go back to the monogamy man and settling down and the sanctity of marriage. And it was just like not it was literally just like that. And then he's at fucking Charlie and George Daniel's wedding definitely sniffing lots of gear. Yeah, just doing it up there.

13:52And it's like, this is a double life you're living, Mr. Lean. You know, Charlie XCX has joined Substack. Everyone's joined Substack now. Did you read it? It was so fierce. I read it when I couldn't sleep the other day. I thought it was good. But there's a bit where she talks about where she asks young Lean, have I changed? And I'm like, he's not the person to ask. You know when you're like, oh, I want to just check that I'm in reality and haven't become a wanker. So ask my superstar friend. Yeah, like you need to be asking someone from where, where is she from like like essex yeah hertfordshire slash essex yeah i was gonna say like lord has helped her do the working class propaganda she ain't from essex yeah but like yeah young lean is just not not the right person to ask but she's like yeah pj just like he was like no you're still the same but you are surrounded by like ass kisses and yes yeah yeah it's more honesty than i was expecting yeah i mean she yeah i don't want to say too much i definitely she definitely is like

14:46Shon Faye:sometimes I see her crew and like there are some that I think are really cool yeah sorry I'm digressing but her wedding I was like it's interesting isn't it because they just like it's interesting when you do see people that just are celebrities that just genuinely are like living for social media yeah I've done the whole like privacy thing so I was like I get really into that like I was looking around to see who's in the background like who's there who's actually there kind of thing and who's just there for the picking yeah exactly um yeah the conservators like the thing is is the like man comes out in favor of like everyone pairing off and like settling down and it's like too married like wow yeah like that's like i don't know it's sort of like what's interesting about the like trad catholic thing is it's like they're pretending that they're counter-cultural but it's like you're like this is the oldest majority look around at like trump's america like christian conservatism isn't like it might be like counterculture in bushwick middle america yeah i mean i do get it like because i get the like yeah it just feels to me like like i understand sometimes like we've all had a thing where like you know you can look around and be like there's a lot of gender going on here yeah yeah actually well yeah do we we're holding space yeah do we need do we need to do do we need to like bring shame back like oh like of course yeah but like that is just do like the inner reactionary i don't think you need to follow that to its logical conclusion yeah i think there was a really fierce time for me like growing up when i moved to learn i moved to learn in 2018 it was coming off like charles jeffrey lover boy era kind of thing around that time it was coming off like kesha being really famous where everyone was just like a bit of a freak and that was kind of it that's where i felt the most fierce because it was like there was no rules kind of like low-key no labels everyone was either non-binary or you either non-binary or trans like it was the drugs babe it was probably just the drugs yeah but there was just like a fierce time where it was like nothing was anything and everything was everything if that makes sense no yeah

16:57i yeah i mean i was high but it was like everybody in the in the no one really cared i mean it was a beautiful time where i think trans rights are actually so much better than like it was actually much easier to be trans in 2018 than it is to be trans now oh yeah you know um so i think with that it was that thing it was like if someone saw you they wouldn't even have the word trans put to you they're just like oh they're a bit fucking weird do you know what i mean and it was kind of like this like you were almost safe by this blanket of being like a freak like a freak like weird yeah with all your friends do you mean yeah i do i mean like obviously i'm a

17:30Shon Faye:little bit older than you but i think there was that like there was definitely that window of like 2015 to the pandemic, where it definitely felt like - The glory days. It was kind of fierce. Yeah, kind of sometimes, like I do think, yeah, things are a lot more regressive now. Just on the Catholicism thing, I feel like that's also like, is that really, that's not so much a UK thing, is it? Because we've still got, not to be like, Catholics are the one people you can still discriminate against. Yeah. That's something we can agree on. Yeah, yeah. Well, I agreed with you. I thought it was like a dime square thing.

18:03and then when the Pope died the amount of Instagram stories I was saying like Conclave! And that was because there had just been a movie in fairness. Also it is

18:11Shon Faye:like obviously horrible very you know deeply traumatised by the messages I received about myself my sexuality my gender growing up it continues to scar me to this day I'll never unlearn the shame etc etc but it is a gag. Yeah. Well we can wake it up. Literally the looks the fashion yeah the glamour the decadence the incense i still buy um i buy a frankincense dipty candle in order to reconnect to my catholic roots to clock in yeah to clock a gag the most london fields way of getting back in touch with your catholic roots but um yeah so that's i guess that was that like a strong take not really but i feel yeah i feel like Like, I'm sort of okay with it being, like, a little bit of irony about it.

19:04Shon Faye:But I don't know that it's, like, that serious. I think for some people it's, like, masking. I also understand the longing for, like, this idea. Like, obviously it's easy to mock in, like, trad wives or really extreme right-wingers. But I think all of us, like, can be subject to, like, false nostalgia, right? It's like the dating thing. Like, how often people will talk about dating apps and be like, we've lost the art of good dating. and I'm like yeah I think you like are like you have a false nostalgia for a time where dating was like really amazing yeah because it never was yeah yeah basically not um false nostalgia is rife everywhere I look it's like in music and like I think we've spoken about it before like the way people everyone does content now if you're an up-and-coming musician is everyone uses like a camcorder or more recently it's like an iPhone 5s and it's like being used by like 18 year olds who never even used the iphone and like i sometimes wonder if uh what's his fucking face mark fisher was right that we're just like constantly looking backwards um in like music making anyway i went on a little digression there no i think that's true i mean like i'm like kind of where did that come from mark fisher let's have some socialist here

20:23Shon Faye:um i yeah i mean i i think that's true i mean obviously like the real like what that made me think of is just the fact like not to keep like yeah like i don't want to foreground my age but like i am seeing the kind of like i've seen the indie sleeves and now even the like mid-2000s nostalgia like saltburn even yeah was like emerald fennel is my age like she was in my year at university so like when i went to see saltburn i was like fuck this is a period drama yeah about my teenage years is this play about us yeah and obviously like now there's like aren't there like there's a whole like genre of tiktok stuff where it's like oh if i'd been millennial i would have written list of calls for buzzfeed i like you're romanticizing buzzfeed yeah yeah literally um Um, so yeah, there is that kind of, do you know what?

21:11Shon Faye:I was the other day I watched You've Got Mail. It's quite random, but I was, it's a, it's a romantic comedy with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan. Oh, for us. In 1998. And like the, the, the premise of it, it's like very of its time. It's like they meet in a chat room and then they are emailing each other. Like now you'd be like, Tom Hanks would send a dick pic to Locker. That would be the end of the film. But like they like, but they build this like very romantic correspondence whilst in real life, they're rival business owners. and he's like a, he's like a, like, it's supposed to be like, he's like a big conglomerate, like Borders was.

21:43Shon Faye:And then she's like this little indie bookstore and then he puts her out of business, but they end up together anyway. Like he destroys her livelihood, but she falls in love with him anyway. Yes, it's weird. But like, I was watching it recently and I was like, oh, like Borders and all of that have closed down and he would now be put out of business by Amazon and actually her mini little indie bookshop is giving Dongham books. Yeah, you'd be like, he's like, he's on his own. Yeah. we love a little indie bookshop oh my god okay so you haven't got i'm surprised to hear you say or maybe i misunderstood your take but like false nostalgia for a time before dating apps because in love and exile aren't you you're quite critical of dating apps no and are they kind of commodify yeah kind of i mean the thing is right well one one thing is let me get this straight yeah but one thing I'm not going to romanticise it right because I'm literally a transsexual like the pre-dating apps era for me was a chaser trans off Fulham Road or whatever where it's like Ted did you not you naming it but you know like those way out club oh my god yeah TBT when I first moved to London I used to go Sue had a Chelsea girl era no yeah so I was in Fulham yeah and then I would go to Wetherspoons and everyone in Wetherspoons was like are you going to Ted's and I was like who I never went to that one But there's bombshell So anyway But like basically Four dating apps Hashtag girls like us Yeah Like the only way You were meeting someone Is at like a Yeah Tanny chaser bar Yeah And so like I'm not gonna romanticise that Like Like you know Like me Me next to like A married father of four Who's Who's presenting As Stephanie Trying to catch trade That can't tell the difference can't clock the team so that was my pre-dating up era um so it turns out and like but you know like also like that's that's what i mean but also like even cis girls right it's like what they're harking back to is like i don't know like my mom and dad met in a nightclub but like i mean yeah my they're i mean my parents divorced and it kind of had a horrible ending so So like in a way, I'm just a bit like, there was a smaller pool, but like, I don't know.

24:03Shon Faye:Women had a lot less choice. I just think people over-romanticize it. And also like, if you go back two generations, people just didn't get divorced. And so that was kind of a real deal for everyone, especially women. Yeah. So I find it weird when people are like, we've lost the art of dating. I'm like, I'm not sure. It was ever there. Yeah. Or when people, I mean, I know you two have talked about this on my previous episodes, but it's like, it depends as well. It's a really generalization, but is it, that like men have suddenly lost the ability to make an effort, which is what the false nostalgia is.

24:31Shon Faye:Or is it like they never made an effort? Now we just know it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think that is the case. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just, it's actually peak. It's rough out there. Yeah. So who says that as someone that's never been on a dating app basically? You got the field? Who, me? Yeah. I was on a dating app. Oh, really? Yeah, babe. I was on Hinge. I was on field for a bit. Wow. Tinder, I was on. That's why I met all my friends. I'm on field. I've got some things to say. It's not actually about the app. Like, they've actually, like... What was funny is they got some trans girl, because she tagged me because she quoted me in it.

25:02Shon Faye:They got some trans girl to write a piece for Field about, like, how to date straights as men as a trans woman. And the piece was basically like, don't. Yeah. Which is basically the only advice. Okay, so, like, the thing that was really getting me is, like... Like, it's a bit different on Hinge when you're, like, looking for a relationship. but like sorry but like i understand signifying political views but this is bad but like i've seen people putting like like no tories no turfs i'm like there are no turfs on fucking yeah yeah turfs famous kink lovers like there are no turfs they shut the fuck up no tories i'm like the tories are extinct as a political force like say no labor no liberals yeah it's quite twee to be like no of course there's no tories no turfs yeah the other thing is like sorry it's a bit controversial but like when guys who are like like let's see what happens i'm into eating women out yeah and then they're like free palestine i'm a bit like i don't think you should use the cause of palestinian liberation yeah i was gonna say as eating women out yeah and like and like i feel like i saw uh moya talk about that on instagram story that was because i like i had gone on a that's the thing like sometimes sometimes when moya moya chooses violence yeah whereas i am i keep these things under wraps yeah i'm just like i don't know that uh this sits well with me it doesn't sit with my spirit well but like i understand that it's like you're trying to signify your political allegiances right to me i'm about like is this all a little bit i used to i used to even hate it on field though like when people would put in their their bio like that right so they'd be they'd live in east london their thing would be down to like three kilometers and they put like no tories i'm like are you really gonna find a tory around here like do you know and even then like it's like you from from your pictures i can tell you like no tories like no shade but it's like we all look pretty liberal in our photos i'm like obviously like when people put in the bio like no tories it's all like you're right like it's just obvious i I saw a guy the other day who, heteroflexible.

27:10Nice. One of his interests alongside reading, reclocking his teeth. Yeah. Because he probably watches this because we wait for this. What was like, was like reading music, cycling, androgyny. Oh, there it is. Picture three. Protect the doll's t-shirt. And I was like, not the soft chaser teeth. My favourite. No, they suck. I'm really interested. androgyny yeah the way the way it's what are your hobbies i love sleeping hermaphroditus in the river i'm interested in the classical antiquity and and its use of androgyny and art yeah i'm sure yeah like way that yeah yeah but no i i always used to find it was like or it's the classic ones that like it's shady but they're like two photos where they're like looking like straight well by trade basically and then you're going on a curveball yeah and then and then throw and then the third yeah the third picture would be a curveball because i'd just be like like the most like ill-fitting dress oh yeah the shape the shine fits and the amazon shake and go wig and the cat ears as well like no shade no shade no shade no shade to girls at the side of the journey yeah exactly but you're just kind of like okay i see you like we see you it's the bios for which we kind of alluded to in those videos.

28:31But actually, I feel like something we maybe didn't tackle hard enough in those really thought provoking videos was that the thing I still don't get about Field is how I can't do a sincere bio like that. Like where people are doing like, I respect it, but like I can't talk that candidly about like kinks or it's not even about kinks necessarily. It's just like an essay about yourself. And like, not only do I not want to reveal that much about myself to everyone but also like sometimes i want a little je ne sais quoi yeah like let's find out yeah i don't want to reveal i don't want to play all my cards at the first fucking hurdle

29:09Shon Faye:the thing on field now is it's not even the thing that like it's kinks and stuff i i i well i don't believe in kink shaming ish but like obviously kink is still an aesthetic choice and i'm like if i can shame your like your interior design yeah like if i can be a bit catty yeah i don't think you should be like publicly humiliated no like your sexual preferences i do think some things are just like lack glamour and i feel like it's okay to say it but i but it's not any of that stuff what's crazy is obviously because like field was originally for people that aren't maybe on apps at all it's like it was originally for three sims and kink and then like obviously like i joined it because i was like well it's like more open it was less that it was more like open-minded people it might be a bit easier queer men for the curious yeah curious like men that are like a bit more open whatever but like obviously it's now like all dating apps they become they can homogenize and it's like the same fucking people yeah on the other ones like i just saw you on hinge why am i seeing you i'm on breeze yeah oh my god i know um but like so you see a lot of like i see a lot of like guys i'm sure it's the same women too who basically now on field it's not like even kink or anything like that which would be fine it's like what they do is they describe like all the components of like a relationship it's like i want casual and i would like to meet someone like a friend for casual consistent sex we go to museums and art galleries we can have a laugh like um consistent but like not looking for anything serious yeah and i'm like that's a relationship you just ask for a girlfriend but without labels yeah and it's like so so prevalent i'm just like Like we're very, everyone's very ill.

30:49Shon Faye:Yeah. Like genuinely, because it's like, well, you're saying like, like if you were just a fuck boy, fine, but what you're saying is I crave human intimacy. I can't even name that. Yeah. Yeah. But no commitment. Yeah. Remember the last time I was on it, before I got in this relationship, I was on it and this guy was like looking for a relationship. I only used to match people that were looking for a relationship. I'm not like, I can't do like, no strings attached. Like I'm too emotional. You're not looking for long, open to short. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not me. But then, then you'd match them.

31:15they'd be like oh yeah send me a number and then they'd just call you i was actually sat with zooey and laura once no no no with dick out and so we answered it and this guy was just like ringing me and he'd like ring i was literally watching tv with zooey once and this boy was like ringing me and he was like i just want like a fling i'm like so you lied you lied on your like feel profile

31:32Shon Faye:like what the fuck yeah sometimes that happens that that has happened to me actually kind of recently where you're like you really think you clear it and then you move them onto whatsapp and then suddenly they'll be like I think it's about time you and I had some fun and then I'm like fun one I fucking hate calling sex fun like listen I said maybe a blowjob I didn't say I was going to have fun I hate and force fun freshest week sex not that that's you baby fucking karaoke don't tell me I've got to have fun if there's pressure to have fun I'm not coming in any sense it's also when they say It's also when they say play as well I hate play We can go to the playroom Play No It's sinister I recently saw aftercare as an interest And I had no idea what that meant I think a guy once tried to do aftercare with me When I was in one of my hosts It's like I'm going to break up with you But get you a flat white afterwards No, I think it's more like They stay in the night No, it's more like they rail you And then like two hours later once they got home They're like thanks for that, you okay?

32:42yeah yeah just checking in just following up on this one just checking in just circling back cc and you in fuck off god that's good aftercare why would that be an interest that's so isn't that just human decency though yeah that's the thing like that's what makes me a little bit suspicious of it is it's like i think it comes from this idea like i think we're like i think

33:06Shon Faye:like i think and i don't know this because i'm not i've never been involved in any kink scenes me being like i'm not i just genuinely haven't so i might be completely this might be bullshit but as i understand it it's like in proper kink scenes if you're like into like bdsm or whatever it's like if you've been like like fucking belting someone or whatever consensually that still might trigger them or bring up something because it's like and so it's like aftercare it's like okay like actually i'm not gonna just get like but but obviously like as field and all these things that kink discourses move more into like vanilla sex yeah it comes out as more like you all right yeah was that good yeah happy question mark

33:49oh dreadful that is dreadful um sean i wanted to ask you if you had any opinions on the recent uh because i don't think you've spoken about this on any podcast but please correct me if you have the recent Lana Del Rey Ethel Cain beef I know you're a big Lana fan and what do you think of Lana Del Rey's swamp hubby? I've got lots to say

34:11Shon Faye:so so so this is like so my overall take with that is right is that like of the two like I've got more into Ethel Cain's music this summer but I wasn't like originally on the original Ethel Cain wave kind of loved her love the like internet edgy lord stuff love a trans girl that's like not being super sweet and palatable in public. So I've always kind of spiritually been like, I support you, but the music didn't connect with me until the summer. So Lana Del Rey is like one of my big ones. Yeah. So like I'm spiritually like more aligned. However, and this is bad for Lana. When I saw that, I was like, fuck's sake.

34:51Shon Faye:Yeah. Main thing was like, girl, you're 40. Like you can't like, as someone that's like about to turn 38, like like i often if someone's below the age of 25 on the internet i am like it is it is fundamentally undignified yeah to have beef yeah or even conflict with anyone under the age of 25 right it's tea yeah i i i feel the same yeah like you are the biggest star ethel kane is clearly influenced by you and she's weird that she's done this whole thing where she's like addison ray is my daughter and you're like my drag daughter and you're like ethel kane is your drag yeah yeah what ethel kane is you just denied her like yeah just because like you you did pepsi you did pepsi cola and she died pepsi yeah like i feel like otherwise like yes there are hints of lana del ray and addison ray's music but like ethel kane is obviously kind of like a spiritual successor in many ways and it is just like it's much more dignified so that's what i kind of like honestly that's what i felt about it and i have supported lana through a lot of her like that letter melt What, the question for the culture?

35:56Wait, I don't know this. Well, she wrote this letter about her being like, kind of like a submissive girlie compared to all like the other girlies. But then she dropped everybody in it. Like she named names. Who was on it?

36:08Shon Faye:Well, she, also people came to her because she, like, she basically was like, I think like most of the women she named were women of colour, like artists, like female artists who were not white women, who were black and Latina women. And she was like, how are all these women getting away with being sexy or whatever and everyone really punished me for it and called me anti-feminist and it was like it was in the middle of lockdown and it was like at the height of BLM yeah I know and it was just like completely like tone deaf and like maybe some valid points she had about how she was treated because she was clearly really traumatized in the early years of her career by people saying like with ultra violence yeah anti-feminist and she was glorifying domestic it violent so but like in that um it is funny that like so there are parts of that where she was like she like defends herself and is like i'm just a glamorous person yeah there was like some parts of it like when she when she melts down publicly um there is always something a bit iconic about it and with the eval cane one i was a bit like it didn't this isn't yeah this isn't iconic it just feels a bit like you need to get offline i did though recently like that there was that fan that posted a photo with her and she commented underneath being like, but she promised not to post it.

37:26Shon Faye:And then quote speech marks being like I promise. Perfect amount of pity. If you've seen the TikTok where she's like shaking like some young fans hands and then she looks at them Yeah, she looks at the marks on her arms and goes you chopping it up? No ma 'am. Sean's on TikTok? What? Are you on TikTok? no i'm not on tiktok i'm a lurker okay i i was i had management like a few years ago and they were like you need to be because my because my yeah my my instagram engagement is really high and i've had loads of like um like various like managers or or like um agencies be like you're sitting on a gold mine you need to monetize and i'm like i think the reason that my engagement is so high is because i'm not always fucking flogging yeah yeah yeah like bits and bobs i don't know skincare care or whatever period so i didn't really want to do that but then someone was like you've got to get on tiktok i think you'd be really good at it and it's like well i'd be good at smoking crack which is why i don't yeah like yeah of course i'd be good at it yeah i was good at yeah don't make me get back on that yeah but so yeah i made the decision look i'm i'm a i'm like a classic mid-stage millennial i don't need to be on tiktok also like on a serious note i used to do like bits on youtube i've done a lot of early form content creation for the last 10 years right and like just your appearance when you're trans gets savage yeah it's crazy compared to instagram yeah and i took like i took a lot of that when i was like earlier in my transition and just like at a different stage and like it really got in my head and i didn't really realize until i like scaled it back and got older and i'm like i don't really want to volunteer yeah to like for the mental illness yeah yeah like i'm like i've got a stable sense of self and i don't want loads of people being like low voice yeah yeah yeah i think that's the case is it's like for me the thing i hate the most about tiktok is like they'll just compare to like the transit girl of that moment so like everyone comments under my uh videos is that effle cane because like you look like effle kane i'm like i don't look like effle kane you just don't know many trans people and then now it's changed to audrey hobert so they're saying i look like her and then if i look really really glam they'll be like alex kanzani like or it's like or it's like do you know dakota schiffer yeah they always comment under hers like you look like honda schaefer it's just like let her live she looks like her when dakota schiffer um was on drag race so many people including friends of of 20 years where like, she speaks just like you.

40:06Shon Faye:You've got like, and like, I've met her. And I think she's gorgeous. I mean, I was happy she was 22 and I was like, yeah. Okay. Oh my God. Like Dakota Schiffer, age 22. Oh no. But at the same time I was like, it was weird though, because it was really close friends. I guess it's like, you know, maybe just like speech patterns. But I was like, I don't see it. But I get, I don't know why, but it really gets fucking under my skin. It drives me insane. Cause it's also like, we literally don't look the same. If you're just saying That I've got a clocky jaw Like fine Say it I'd rather you say it Clocky jaw Yeah I know Like rather than just say it Rather than be like You look like F.O.K And I'm like okay Yeah Just call me a brick Yeah Old It is crazy though Because like before Pre-Brat Before the blow up People used to say Charlie To me Which is I think it's because She's got like a round face And also like She had the straight hair At the time It's fallen away As her budget's gone up Yeah And mine has stayed the same.

41:04Shon Faye:People don't compare me to Charlie XCX anymore. And also people used to say Marina and the Diamonds, which I think is like, but yeah, but then I interviewed Marina. I interviewed Marina and like there's photos of us together. Cause we did a, we did a book talk. She did a book of poetry and that she, yeah, she asked if I would do it. And so I met her for the first time. And you know, when you're like, we don't look anything alive. Yeah. And like her body is in tea. She's about half my height. She is perfect hourglass. And I was like, great. well gender dysphoria okay hello darkness my old friend i think that's the thing i'd love to just meet africane just have a photo with her and be like we don't look anything at least your doppelgangers make good music though mine's jack carlo yeah which is kind of gross well when i was a boy everyone said he looked like elwin wilson so i was like oh my god so i had to uh i had to put that one to bed i when i was a boy i um i was a paralegal at one point and i used to go to the central family court in london to drop off papers or whatever this is like 2012 and there was a security guard in the court used to make fun of me by calling me harry styles every day that's fierce though fierce strike jewels i know and the thing is is that i actually would fuck harry styles and i'm like is this is that just because the idea has been planted he's me sans moan um i'm intrigued if you'd be so kind to share what is on your tiktok algorithm what brain rot does does Sean Faye consume?

42:33Shon Faye:Because I am a bit like, I don't, yeah, because I've tried to not become too obsessed with it. What does it always serve me? It serves me Sue, I think. That, that, that, that, that, that, That brain roll. What was it I saw recently? Fag slop. Fag slop. Fag slop is too. That is me. You and Lady Miss K. Yeah, just fag slop. Yeah Yeah that It's all really embarrassing Like Concert clips Of Lady Gaga Yeah no literally Where people be Oh my god She's doing Epacodabra Do it again I get Oh my god I do get some like I get a lot of the like Toxic femininity stuff Being like Which is odd Because obviously that's not But like I guess it's because it like Knows I'm interested in relationships and I'm interested in what women are saying, but like sometimes I am like, you know, the whole thing, like if he doesn't pay for this, if he's broke, whatever, you need to, you know, to like, you know, or if he's under, all those girls that were saying, oh, I missed out on Zoran Mamdani because he's under six foot.

43:43Shon Faye:And I'm just like. What are we doing? Yeah, sometimes I'm like, the MRA comes out and I'm like, oh God, not me talking up for men. But it's good for balance because I wake up every day and my language is misandry. And I have to, my mother tongue is misandry and I have to learn to speak a different language. So that, like, so yeah, like it is interesting. Like the, like Gen Z girls in their 20s dating content gets served to me a lot. I do get like a lot of like, like let's do a five sign you've got ADHD. Yay! All the time, all the fucking time. That's what it's all about. And what do you do to escape the brain roll?