ESPN Goes DTC: Inside the Product, Data, and Personalization Strategy Powering the Platform

0:05Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the next episode of Streamtime Sports. My name is Chris Stone, the community lead joined as always by our CEO, Nick Meacham. Now, Nick, growing up as a kid, I used to watch SportsCenter on repeat for hours. There was Scott Van Pelt, Rich Eisen, so many people I remember just growing up just watching hours and hours. It'd be the same episode just repeated over and sports centers have played such a major part of my life i'm curious did what what was the equivalent in australia was was there was there a sports center of sorts you know because i don't find that there's a great sports center here uh in the uk like it's just such a unique thing i'm just was there a sports center for you so um typically australian tv was pretty immature in comparison so i remember when i was gonna say in my early 20s but it might have been before then they fox sports launched fox sports australia was part of foxtel as a pay tv it's when pay tv came to australia and uh basically they used to have a fox sports news channel and we used to watch that pretty much back to back me and my my flatmates basically uh particularly if we were uh feeling a little worse for where we just keep it on just watch highlights and we're like didn't we already see these highlights before and uh just keep watching again and again um so like that was something that was similar definitely doesn't have the same vibe as a sports center not the same level of production it's more yeah a lower a lower quality uh product and it is just a news channel that they had versus it being you know integrated into the linear offering of like espn like the esports center does but i remember when i traveled to the us i i did the same and i put i put sports center on just keep it in keep it repeating on repeat and just keep watching i'm like why am i doing what am i doing this somehow i just keep like getting held into the broadcast even though I've seen this replay three times.

1:56It's got a unique hold on me every time I watch it. And it is, I think, unique, right, in the sense of ESPN is the broader platform, right? But you sort of think of things like NFL Red Zone or ESPN SportsCenter. It is one of those things that really just kind of has its own space. Or even I think of in the UK, BBC's Match of the Day. There's just certain products that just kind of stand alone. Yeah, it's got that unique IP and heritage behind it that it's just the the go-to everyone knows what it stands for knows what it's about and uh if people want that sort of don't really know what to put on but they want to watch some sports it's the perfect thing to put in the background i think i guess like super saturday and sky probably is like not quite the same thing it's a bit red zoney it's more red zone style a very very poor men's version of red zone i should say uh but yeah it's got a special place and uh obviously that's going to come up shortly in today's episode yes well i had the opportunity while we were in new york to interview Brian Marshall who's the VP of sports products for ESPN and Disney and I think for us Nick just before we get into that interview is how long do you feel like we were talking about was it going to be before ESPN finally went D to C like it felt like Nick we talked about that for almost the entire four years that this podcast has been running yeah probably have actually that's probably a good barometer for it all I think it's probably been that long at least because everyone's been waiting for you know particularly disney who owns espn has been driving a lot of innovation launched disney plus so long ago there's kind of this sort of expectation that they're clearly going to be one of the first movers with something like espn but clearly they've not done that and that's that's with intent it's not like they didn't know what to do they they've basically been patient to wait for the right time to to to pull the trigger so to speak and uh the time is uh obviously obviously now well and just for you know people's context i think put brought all 12 networks onto one d2c platform i think it's something over like 3 000 sporting events a year it's also going to include some of their original content and features and then there's a big stuff like so we're talking about sports center they've got a sc for you feature which is your own personalized sports center they talked quite a bit about personalization and the role that's going to play.

4:09But it is a quite significant move because they've done things in the past with ESPN Plus where there was some streaming available with that, but it was always very select. It wasn't the full offering that everything that ESPN had, whereas this is now fully that move. And I guess, Nick, maybe the question is, as you mentioned, ESPN, arguably the leader in sports. I mean, I think that's what they call themselves, the leader in sports. There might be some people to dispute that, but they certainly have a very good claim to be that. They weren't an early mover on this, what finally do you think nick kind of changed the ecosystem the monetization models consumer behaviors whatever it is that finally got us to the point that espn finally you know went across the line to make this launch well they could be afford to be patient because the cable side of the business the fees that were getting in through cable was just so strong that it just didn't make sense to try and create a platform that was almost competitive with that so whilst they were cashing on the cable side they've been waiting as those cable revenues have been slowly decaying to i think now that the number of something like the 60 million households now that no longer have cable in the us which is a big number if you looked at what it was a few years ago so now there's a massive gap in market opportunity for a product like this to sit standalone and to be able to attract a serious array of revenue and now this platform being launched also is inevitably going to be something they will look to do partnerships and distribution deals with other partners and aggregators as well so they won't just start here with having their own own destination my expectation is they'll continue to look at ways of being more visible in different places but yeah the cord cutting has basically reached the breaking point and it was time to pull that lever and you know but whether it's going to supplant or replace those cable subscriptions and revenues that is a whole different ballgame and many many experts in the industry don't believe that to be the case that this is just the best um they're going to make the best of the situation for what it is now rather than think it's going to offset cable revenues and then explode past what they what they used to be well now that they have done it although they weren't an early mover espn doing this does signal something for the rest of the industry now like you said there's going to still be people they question how successful it can be or whatever might be in the future but now that they've made that move that is not insignificant it does it will have ripples waves things like that now that they have gone does that what does that signal for everybody else regardless if they were an early mover or late adopter now that espn has gone and taken this move what is the broader impact that has on the ecosystem hmm a big big one i i think it was they act well they're clearly not going away anytime soon they're clearly making sure they have not only a destination to point people to but also all of the requisite like distribution channels mapped out and covered so if you want to watch live sports espn will be accessible for wherever you are whether it's through cable whether it's these other distribution deals that will happen or you just have this one single destination to point to i think what the the ripple effect i suppose to the rest of the ecosystem is that they're really going to be competing for attention more against those sports and entertainment players who also invest in sports rights heavily think about it right like you go onto your platform uh you go onto your tv you're like i want to watch something and then instantly now you have to make a decision on whether you want to dig dig into espn and get lost in all the different channels and networks they've got or do you want to go to those other entertainment-based platforms to find something else if you're a sports enthusiast you almost always going to go to espn first i think and so therefore they're just going to be creating i think even more competitive tension with the breadth i have available with your peacocks and your your hbo's and and even your netflix's and alike for those particularly those sports fans out there that know they want to watch sports more often than not um when they're sitting on their couch on a monday night um so i just think it creates even more competitive tension for the market given it's it's such a hub of sports sports content that is basically unprecedented in the market and i think that that's the last bit of it as well as how this is going to impact you know its partnerships that it has with people and then how it goes about its actual content distribution strategy because like you said you have the nbc peacock that has all of its entertainment features you think hbo max and potentially that bringing in paramount into that as well and the entertainment that's going to be on top of the sports layer it has you know being a part of disney has its advantages has its benefits to all the other discoverability uh people within your household that might be using the platform sort of how they do leverage that because at the moment you know you'd either have to go into disney to get the entertainment side of things or you go to espn for the sports side of things you know having those banding those you know digital ecosystems together to connect that to keep everybody within your space i mean i think we've seen a little bit we've talked about sky's really good at the uk being like that aggregator where you always start the journey in sky you might end up on tnt which is now i believe hpo max in the uk as of today or yesterday but they want you to start it through you might even go to netflix but you're going to start it through sky it's similar you know maybe that that's kind of the idea you know having espn disney you know just be that place where you begin the journey well i'm not sure how they're going to manage all that because they are such different environments although disney plus has become much more of a full 360 kind of um entertainment experience even though most people synonymize uh disney with family related titles they're definitely not that anymore i'm intrigued to see how they manage that how the journey from disney plus into the espn ecosystem exists and how they'll separate them out but it's clear that the you know the bundle approach will be an important lever for them to pull is to try to bring on disney members into bundling their their their um subscription with espn and even hulu as Well, obviously with Disney and Hulu now connected with Fubo, there's a lot going on there to be on offer.

10:06So how they manage that is critical because we obviously see whenever there's a lot of friction involved, subscribers are difficult to acquire, let alone to retain. But look, I think it's just another lever for them, basically ESPN, to maximize the value of the content they're investing into. They did some pretty bold bets with media rights a while back. They also did some fascinating moves with ESPN +, which I never really understood. And now ESPN +, will not exist anymore. And they'll still be on cable, getting all their revenues and visibility on linear. But they're going to strike those additional partnerships.

10:44And this is just the gap that they needed filling to complete the whole ecosystem reach that they have. now tapping into an audience that doesn't even have access to them at the scale they needed with those 60 million households I mentioned so they just look they're going to grow a lot again is it enough revenue to justify the losses they're making cable that's the bit everyone's holding that you know crossing their fingers and toes for because if it is that means there's the future of the industry strong but if it isn't then again you're going to have a lot of pain across the industry not necessarily from ESPN side but from others trying to work out how they replace all those revenues that are losing because of the cable depreciation.

11:20Now, to paint the picture, the conversation with Brian, very often, Nick, when we speak about ESPN, we are talking about what's the monetization strategy going to be for DTC? What rights are they going to invest in? And there's a reason we talk about that, right? There's lots of zeros and lots of commas in those. But what Brian and I talk about is very much on the product side and basically the idea of once you've invested this much money in those rights, how do you return ROI on that? How do you make sure that people are staying in your platform? How do you drive stickiness? How do you potentially drive advertisement because you've got personalization on that?

11:51We very much talk about the experience within that. And we talk about how do you even begin on a whiteboard to design what the new ESPN platform is? What are the questions that you ask? Things such as, what things have to be ready for the launch? What things do you park for later on in the roadmap? How do you balance out making sure that first and foremost, as a streaming service, the quality is above everything else because there's nothing worse than streaming and we've seen examples of this um does zone be most famous where they put things on streaming and it didn't work you know how do you ensure quality but still deliver experience how do you balance out you know sometimes less is more nick you know you don't want to give everybody every feature in the world some people just want to lean back and do that so it's really more talking about how to make sure the platform operates at the highest level possible and then also talking about the integration of Disney and the wider family is a part of that conversation as well.

12:43How do you get those data points synced up to keep people in there? They've even talked about things, you know, they're introducing Verts, which I guess is their equivalent of YouTube shorts or TikTok, again, with this idea of continuing to have an algorithm that will feed you based on your favorite athletes, favorite teams to keep you on the platform. You know, they kept talking about try to behave as the consumer behaves. One of the things that was really clear from him is we're not trying to change consumer behavior that's where they often find failures when you try to get people to do something that they're not used to doing so how can we introduce features that meet them where they do things to enrich that experience so i enjoy the conversation like i said we talked about sports center for you i've said for years if someone can create a custom highlight of my fantasy players take my money um so i think they're getting there with se for you feature but i think ultimately just to paint the picture the conversation with brian is very much around the platform, the experience, because ultimately while we talk about rights deals a lot, how you then, you know, get ROI on those is actually on that second end of things.

13:45And I think that's probably the important part that maybe doesn't always get talked about as much. And that's really where Brian and I focus on. The only thing we, my question, the next question I've got is a simple one is, will they have it available globally? I would love to get that access, but we all know the rights are going to be a problem there, of course. Yeah. Well, we did talk about that. He says he does think about international, but he goes in a little more detail about it. So we might have to wait a little bit more for that, Nick. But please do stick around for the conversation I had with Brian.

14:08It was very enlightening, particularly for those that kind of want to understand the platform side of things as well. So thank you for joining us, and please do enjoy that interview with myself and Brian.

14:20Like I said, I won't shamelessly plug my own podcast too many more times, but a story that we have spoken about, Nick and I, on Streamtime many times is when ESPN would finally go D to C. And we have finally reached that stage. Very exciting. All 12 networks onto a single platform, my understanding from the numbers, is 47 ,000 live events. Also includes all the original content, as well as other new features. So I think just to kick things off, my production team, Indigo, is just going to run a real quick sizzle reel for us.

15:12now just to frame this conversation i think historically when we've had espn join us we've talked about the meteorites deals because there's lots of zeros and there's lots of commas and those things are very exciting to people understandably so one thing we probably haven't spent as much time talking about is the actual product and i think that's going to be a really exciting conversation around this because it is going to give us a different angle to the ESPN Disney world that we don't necessarily cover on our side. So Brian, I think just to start off with this, I imagine this is not a decision that was just made on a whim.

15:40It's something that took lots of time and effort. When it comes to designing a platform of this scale, maybe just talk us through like the initial stages. You know, I'm an American football coach. I get on my whiteboard. I draw plays up, things like that. When it comes to building a platform of this scale and everything that's in there, what are the initial steps and conversations that you guys are having Yeah, great. It's a fun question. Most people, we kind of talk about the end of the journey, which we will get to as well and don't spend as much time at the beginning. So, you know, one of the things when you're a product manager that you have to keep in mind is the first thing when you hear the announcement, okay, we're going to launch ESPN direct to consumer, is you have to understand the constraints that you have to work with.

16:18And in product, there's a really kind of just simple framework a lot of people use. is you can either fix the scope of the features that you want to add, the time that you're going to launch it, or the resources that you have available. And in sports, it's almost always the date that you're going to launch something, and that date is almost always August. So when you go and we put this together, we go into, we'll use the word whiteboard, but pull up a document, and the first thing you do is you start to list out all of the user needs and the core user journeys that you need to be able to build to satisfy these things.

16:56So you start with, as a user, I need to be able to watch Monday night football so I can see the Jets lose again. And so we go and we'll list out, okay, what are the capabilities that we need to do that? We'll go through the user needs. We'll go through needs from our advertising partners. As an advertiser, I need to be able to do this. As a content creator at ESPN, I need to be able to do this. We then, because we have a fixed date, say, okay, what are the really P0 requirements that we need to do in order to hit this? And we then just, you know, we start to design what those things look like and really just then sequence what are the must-haves in order to get this out.

17:34And then we try to quickly iterate along the way based on user feedback. And in terms of those must-haves, you're thinking about this. This needs to be a, you know, consumer product-led platform. What were some of the core things that maybe I think of them as anchor points? They were the kind of things you have conversations over weeks, months, that you always came back to sort of those were kind of the core tenets of what we wanted to build with the platform? Yeah, I think when you think about great products, the first thing is they don't try to force user behavior. They meet users where they're at, and they try to really amplify the things that they already love.

18:11So when we set out to build this product, it wasn't just about distribution. It wasn't just about how do we get ESPN go direct to consumer, which was an important thing. It was also how do we kind of reimagine the sports viewing experience? Because sports fandom has changed so much over the years. Fans now expect the product to be interactive. They expect it to be multi-screen. They expect it to be deeply personal. And the great thing is ESPN's mission to serve sports fans anytime, anywhere really aligns with that. So we really then said, okay, what are these great opportunities then? in order to build a platform that meets user needs.

18:49And the good thing is we already had all these ingredients in-house. The ESPN app, if you love scores, news, insights, et cetera, is already number one in the space. We have the best fantasy platform and number one fantasy game. We're the number one media brand on social. We have a great partnership with DraftKings, if you like to do sports betting. So we really looked at how do we take these things that fans already love and pair it alongside our best-in-class programming and that's really kind of how we thought about going about the product and again not trying to change fans behavior but meet them where they're at and really amplify the things they're already doing i really love that point and this will be the first time i go off piece talking about meeting fans where they're at because i think one of the things or why i've seen people struggle is they try to get fans to do things that they don't naturally do and i think you know nick and i have spoken about this like there's just sometimes this idea that you know using the field of dreams great movie you know if you build it they will come and i think there's this misconception if you build a product, people will just naturally come to it, regardless of what that experience is.

19:48So were there necessarily any data points or anything when you're talking about meeting the users where they were that influenced some of those decisions? Yeah, so the good news is, right, we've had all these products out in market for a really long time, so we understand the types of things they were trying to do. We already had, you know, ESPN Plus in market, you know, as a data point as well. So we were able to see, okay, fans, here's how they were consuming our ESPN Plus content. And we get user feedback from them all the time that we're doing. If there's one thing that you all know, sports fans will tell you what they're thinking, you know, for better or worse.

20:27But we take in all that feedback all the time. And so whether it was just having our products in market for a long time or whether it was that we already had a lot of experience with ESPN Plus, those were really great data points that we're able to use and apply to our launch of ESPN Unlimited. Yeah, and I think, again, I'll go off piece, but I'm sure you'll be prepared to answer this. There are multiple different platforms even within ESPN. I remember I was one of the original ESPN Plus subscribers way back in the day because I wanted NFL Combine, NFL Draft stuff that sat behind that paywall.

21:00As you were thinking about developing this, just how that tied in with some, or maybe what were things you learned from previous ESPN products that you applied into this new one? Yeah, I think that the very first thing is, how do you make it a frictionless experience for fans as much as possible? How do you make sure that you're getting fans the content that they need front and center? So whether it is first, and maybe we'll get into personalization at some point, it is, okay, you're from Cincinnati, you're a Bengals fan, we have the Bengals on Monday Night Football. How do we bring that to you front and center?

21:33If you don't have access to ESPN, how do we make it easy for you to get through our commerce flows in order to buy it? Or if you're one of our valued MVPD or VMVPD customers, how do we make sure to authenticate you along the way? So it's really trying to take that, figure out what are the frictionless ways to get you the content that you're looking for. And I'm not standing up to intimidate you. I just can't see my timer. And I just want to make sure that I keep track of everything so that I can drive the ship. Again, as Pat mentioned when he was moderating, I will try to integrate questions in.

22:06So if at any point, I'm sure my production team will pull up the QR code, feel free to add questions. I will try to layer those in as we go through the conversation. So please feel free to do that. You did touch on something, though, that is a part of what I want to talk about, which is personalization. So I've been shouting this. I've been at SportsPro for nearly seven years. The one thing that I've essentially, I guess, initially requested but then started to demand as an expectation is if you want to take my money as a sports fan, this is what you can do. build me a highlight package that is personalized where I can upload my fantasy sports teams, and then the next morning I get a highlight package of my fantasy sports teams.

22:44That's what I want. I want a personalized highlight. Like, I will pay for a subscription to do that, so that's my challenge to everybody out there. Hold on, let me write that down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you guys are taking a first step for that. One of the things with the new platform is the SC for you, taking what, you know, I think if most people think of ESPN, SportsCenter is probably one of the first things that comes out of their mouth in terms of things that they think about ESPN. So maybe just talk a little bit about what the SC4U feature is. And then as the follow-up question to that, what is the role that personalization is going to play with this new experience?

23:17Yeah, great. And I know you asked him that way. I'm going to flip him around a little bit because personalization really leads into SportsCenter for you as the way we think about it. So first, personalization for us is not optional. It's not nice to have. For us, at the scale that we operate, it is something that is foundational for everything we do. And the reason is everybody fans differently. There's no two people who experience sports the same way. As you said, you're really interested in fantasy and the way that sports applies to your fantasy team. Maybe I've bet on a game, and so I want to learn something else.

23:51You have your favorite teams and players. I have my favorite teams and players. Maybe I like to follow social. You like to go deep into stats. So it's critical that the only way we can meet all those needs is through personalization. So as you talked about SportsCenter for you, one of the things that we really went to go tackle was how do we think about this incredible IP in this show that we have and think about it through a digital first lens? So what's incredible about SportsCenter is every day the team creates an amazing show that reaches millions of people. We tried to take that idea and flip it on its head a little bit.

24:27In digital, what if instead you created millions of shows, each personalized to the individual fan? This was a really hard problem to solve because first event we had to greatly expand the content pool that we had. We had to be able to pull out what the storylines were of every video. We had to assemble them into a script. We had to provide voices in order to read this script. And then every day since August, we've had to assemble a personalized sports center for you for fans. This is thousands upon thousands upon thousands of segments for people. So we really thought about personalization as a way to meet fans where they're at, to really, in a digital first world, be able to create content that is really tailored to the user.

25:10So it's foundational to everything we do. Users expect it from modern products, and it's something we want to be sure to deliver. Out of curiosity, did you ever meet Peter Scott? He used to be a Warner Brothers discovery. I've known Pete for, yeah, for a long time. So this was not pre-planned, by the way. I don't know if anybody else in the room has ever met Pete Scott. I think he's one of the smartest people I've ever had the opportunity at SportsPro. But he talked about something you mentioned there, which was sports has historically been a one-to-many approach. And his whole view is like the future has to be many-to-one, where that way you can choose the experience you want.

25:42where if you're someone that is into fantasy sports, is there a broadcast stream that's going to be dedicated towards facilitating what you are interested in or if it's betting or whatever that might be? You've obviously paid a lot of money for these rights, but how many different ways can you redistribute that content so that it meets that individual person as opposed to we're just going to push out one broadcast on one channel and that's the way you're going to get it? Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, we first and foremost want to bring that content and that game to the user, and that's the most important thing.

26:11and being able to do that quickly and reliably and with high performance is always front and center. The second thing then we try to do, to your point, is what are the ways that this fan might want to also experience that game? What are the deeper forms of engagement? We've been doing it a little bit from the broadcast side, right, whether it's the Manning cast, whether it's Sue and Diana doing the women's tournament. It's really now going to be about how do we bring these also tailored experiences into to the app is something we're really focused on. Now, coming back, we talked about how did you make the game plan for getting this launched?

26:47What were some of the conversations around, these are the things that need to be prepared for day one when we launch, versus what are the things that we can potentially prioritize later down the roadmap? Because I'm sure when you launch it, the priority is that it must absolutely work, but you still want it to be an excellent experience. Were there conversations around, these are the things that need to be there ready for day one, versus things that we might prioritize later down the road, just to make sure we get that initial good momentum? Yeah, so I'd say the very first thing as we touched on was and continues to be personalization.

27:16That is always first and foremost the sort of thing that we do. And, you know, in addition to launching ESPN Direct to Consumer, we also launched a new section in our app called Verts, which is an immersive video experience that we really wanted to use as our playground and opportunity to really lean into personalization and find new ways of interactivity there. It's where SportsCenter for You is housed. And we've been able to see a 65 % increase in short-form video. So we didn't just lift and shift people from one spot to another. We were able to drive additional engagement by creating this personalized experience.

27:50And so the very first thing that we had to have was personalization. The second thing we wanted to have was how can we make sure that a fan who is watching the game can get deeper stats and information. So we did it in two ways. One, whether on your connected TV device you can go look at stats and be able to see who's in the game. But also we wanted to, and one of the really cool pieces of innovation that we have, is your phone can sync to the game that you're watching through a product that we have called StreamCenter. So it also knows how to sync to the timestamp. So the ESPN app is not spoiling any of the moments that you're at.

28:25So you can still watch the game. You can get a great companion experience on your phone as well, all in a way that's tied together so that you're not seeing something happen on your phone before it happens in the screen. Yeah, that's definitely a major one because I think latency is always a conversation where it's like, you know, do you get a text message from your friend before something happens? I think the example that's always used, although I don't think I've ever experienced, is, you know, you're living in an apartment, the person next to you is watching, or one of you is watching on linear, one of you watching on streaming, and then it, you know, so it ruins the surprise.

28:55In terms of accessibility, at the moment, you know, I'm based in London, So what are sort of maybe some of the thoughts around how that expands potentially globally in terms of what the product could be for people that are sports fans, whether they're expats like myself or just really interested in American sports? Is there a plan in place for potential international? Yeah, we think about international a lot and acknowledge there's a lot that we need to do to get better in that space. But I think the first thing is from a streaming perspective, we've been really looking at the Disney Plus app as a great delivery vehicle to bring sports to people globally.

29:29We've been delivering sports through Disney Plus in Latin America for about a year now to a lot of success. We offer it in Australia and New Zealand. So we've been trying to think about how can we bring the best of the Walt Disney Company to people in the app. And so we've seen a lot of success there. And the second part, you know, for our scores and schedules, kind of our core ESPN app, it is available in different editions around the world. About 30 % of our monthly actives come from the other regions. But we also understand, especially when we talk about personalization, that there's a lot that we need to do to that experience to really be authentic to people in those regions.

30:06So, you know, there's a lot we want to do, and it's an area where we're actively exploring. Well, you're making my job really easy because you've brought up Disney, which is kind of the next topic I wanted to go into, is that ESPN is just one part of the larger Disney company. So when you think about this new product that's being launched via ESPN, how does that then sink in? Because I imagine most people that subscribe, they likely have kids, so they're really going to be active on Disney +, watching all the shows and movies there. So what are maybe the conversations like for you sitting at ESPN, but then you're also conscious that your product is just one of several products that sits within the Disney ecosystem?

30:45And I know you just had a baby, so get excited to watch Bluey and other things available on Disney+. So one of the most exciting challenges that we have and biggest opportunity is how do we expose the breadth and depth of the Walt Disney Company in an app, like you said. So the ESPN app has always been the front door to sports fandom. It's, you know, if you want highlights and news and analysis and figure out which team is Max Crosby on or not at this point, the ESPN app. Probably not the Ravens. The ESPN app is a great place for that. When we launched Direct to Consumer, we did bring ESPN into the Disney Plus app as well, which was good in a couple places.

31:25One, it was good for the ESPN business to be able to reach the fans in Disney Plus. But much more importantly, it was great for the fans and really continued to show value in the Disney bundle. And they can be able to watch all of that content in one place, which we think is really important. And personalization, again, was the key to doing that. We really focused on creating a new algorithm that allows people to experience sports alongside Hulu, alongside the Disney Plus content, and bring that all together for fans. Now, again, as we went and had to prioritize the work and the features, as you called out, right now the experience in sports in Disney Plus is much more of a lean-back experience.

32:06It's much more of, hey, this is on ESPN, Monday Night Football is on, I want to be able to watch it. Now that we've been able to get that out the door, we're starting to explore what are the interactive elements that we brought in as part of ESPN that make sense to bring over to Disney Plus. There are different use cases. There are different things people are trying to do. and we're trying to find what that right form of interactivity is now to bring over. Well, that leaves us nicely. There's a question at the top here that kind of touches on something that I wanted to talk about next, so I'll go ahead and bring it up.