Inside the ‘For You’ era: How to master the algorithm

0:04Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Streamtime Sports. I'm your host, Nick Meacham, CEO at SportsPro. Now, today's hot topic is about content and the attention economy. Now, Two Circles, one of the major media consultants, management consultants that exist in sports, has recently released a study called For You. It talks about the changes in how the consumption of content, video and social is changing at such a rapid rate. It's a really interesting study and I got a chance to spend some time talking to their director of content about the study and its findings at the Sportfro Media Summit in Madrid.

0:44Now, some big things that come out of it is consumption is flattening. We need to double our output and triple our genres. Not sure what I mean? Well, take a listen to my conversation with Mo Hamdhaidari from Two Circles, recorded backstage at the Sports Pro Media Summit, and it'll explain a little bit more. I hope you enjoy.

1:07So Mo, Two Circles touches pretty much every aspect of sports business these days. Today, we're going to look at some of the work you've done with a couple of key partners, particularly around content and media. Now, take us through particularly some of the work you've been doing with the UEFA Women's Champions League. Yeah, look, I think it's a good point. To say we've had a 12-month of transformation would be an understatement. We've almost doubled in size. We've taken on new capabilities with the acquisition of Spring Media and core technologies in the States. And what that has enabled us to do is bring a whole new set of capabilities for our partners.

1:42so the UEFA Women's Champions League that you mentioned we are going to market globally for them to sell their media rights and their sponsorship and that's something that wasn't necessarily in our arsenal before in in addition to that we're also providing a whole host of marketing services that will help grow the value of their audiences and the value of their media rights and it's a really exciting time because as I mentioned we didn't necessarily have this capability a year ago, and now we do. And that has enabled us to go to market and find new partners. So another one that is worth mentioning is LNR, top 14.

2:20Again, we are globally selling their media rights. We are about to relaunch their OTT platform. So maybe next year at this event, we'll come and see you again. We'll talk. We'll talk about that. And also we're helping them with their global audience growth by looking after their social platforms. So it is an interconnected set of capabilities that we're bringing into the fore. And we're very proud of it. Two Circles exists to make a better future for the sport and entertainment industry. And we do that by knowing fans best. And it seems like content and media seems to be the end point, I suppose, of all the work that you guys do around strategy, doing a lot of strategy work with a lot of the sports properties.

3:05Can you just paint a bit of the picture for those that aren't quite familiar with what is Two Circles role typically these days with a sports property? I know it's varied, but can you paint maybe the ideal picture of what that relationship looks like and some more specific examples of maybe more tailored work you're doing? Absolutely. So in essence, there are five sub-capabilities, if you like, of what Two Circles can bring for its partners and the industry. And those are the traditional work that we did, which was, in effect, consulting. There is then a technology arm, which we haven't even touched upon, but we can do at maybe your April events.

3:42There is then the content world, which is the one that I sit in and straddle and work with my colleagues in the other teams. There is then the media rights business, and then there is the rights management and sponsorship sales. So if you think about that as a whole host of services, effectively, we can look to bring a solution to any of the challenges that our partners in the sport and entertainment industry are having. And to touch upon your point there in content, content is the shop window, right? It is what connects with fans. And we're working with a whole host of our clients to ensure that we're helping them grow their audiences and grow their revenues.

4:17And those two things go hand in hand. If you're growing the value of your brand, if you're growing your audiences, you can then grow your revenues as well. So when you're talking to these different rights holders that exist in the market, what are the main, let's call it, let's say weaknesses that they need most help on? Is it the commercial side or is it the content creation itself? It's a bit of chicken and egg sometimes, right? It is. And look, you've hit the nail on the head there. It is chicken and egg. What we are seeing is that the global IP rights holder business last year was worth$170 billion.

4:50And we're projecting that by 2032, it will be worth$260 billion. So there is growth. We are in a golden age for sports and there is going to be a whole amount of growth for rights holders. What we're seeing is that there needs to be innovation because the big will get bigger. and the percentage at which they get bigger arguably may remain the same or decline. But for those that aren't necessarily in those premium spaces, if you like, they need to find additional ways of building relationships and direct-to-consumer routes with their fans. And that means by looking at how they can expand their content services, but also their engagement techniques and their experiential and their international growth, et cetera, et cetera.

5:38And my belief is that content sat at the heart of everything that you do connected to the brand is a key driver in that. Not to labour on the point too much, but the work that Two Circles does, there's a real strong strategy component, but then there's also the execution component. So sometimes you're doing both of those things for people. Sometimes it's just one or the other. Absolutely. We look at them as levers that our clients can pull on. So they can take the whole suite of services if they like, or they can just come to us for a small bid. We worked with international federations that want us to just write their content strategy and then hand it over.

6:15Equally, we've worked with international federations like the International Canoe Federation, where we are their host broadcast partner. So we are effectively creating their unilateral feed that goes to all their broadcasters. And we've done that by bringing in our expertise in audience growth and overlaying that on top of the host broadcast services that we provide. And that means that the ICF haven't had to compromise on quality. So the output for the feeds has remained the same. And in fact, I was with our partners and he said that a couple of their broadcasters have come back to them and said, are you spending more on your broadcast feed?

6:50And he said, no, we're spending less because what we've been able to do is think smartly about where we're putting our investment. And in effect, through that savings that we've been able to bring for the ICF, we've been able to then create new digital strands for them. and create output on their social platforms that has effectively helped bring more people into their ecosystem. And there is a report going out because ultimately we believe you're in a for-you economy and you'll see in the report that the ICF have reported that that savings that we've been able to bring them has enabled them to 10x their content output.

7:26That's a pretty big juicy number. You mentioned that for-you economy report, which I saw came out fairly recently. just talk to me a bit about what the thesis there is around for you absolutely the hypothesis is that we are now in a in an age where you don't find content anymore content finds you serve not search and that's quite a big thing to say the reason we believe we've reached that is because of the algorithms and because of social media and we can talk about that until the sun goes down but I think you're on stage in a minute, so we won't. What we've seen is that from 2008 to 2022, there was a growth in the amount of time people were spending with media.

8:11And by media, we're talking about everything from TV and radio to computers to tablets to smartphones. Now, if you recall, the iPhone came out 2009, 2010, and that consumption exploded. But interestingly, what we've seen is that between 2022 and 2024, the rate at which people are consuming content has plateaued. It's not got any bigger. And that's not really a surprise because ultimately we've all got 24 hours in a day. And so the amount that we're spending with media has remained stagnant. But what we are seeing and what is really fascinating is that during that same period, the amount of time people are consuming sports content has grown from 6 % to 10%.

8:56So from 2008 to 2024. And that effectively means that sport is starting to eat entertainment. And that's an interesting phrase that we like. Interesting stuff that I remember hearing, I think it was the Netflix co-CEO stating that, Their biggest competitor was sleep, right? Which I think probably gives a bit of insight into where that's all going. You mentioned consumption appears to be going up from a sports perspective, which is obviously interesting. One of the things that was interesting in that study was the supply versus demand aspect. Just talk a bit more about how you're seeing supply go up in terms of consumption generally.

9:36Yeah. Look, I mean, supply seems to be infinite. Demand is finite. And those two things don't match, right? There's 8 billion people in the world probably right now. They've only got a certain amount of time that are able to consume content. And so that clash means that sports within the next decade, within that golden decade, and already knowing that they're starting to eat entertainment's lunch has a real opportunity to increase the amount of time that people are spending within new media. by bringing their attention back. And what we tend to say there is the way to do that is to look at your content output.

10:20And one of the other figures that the study talks about is doubling your content output as a sports rights holder. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to go and create a whole host of new content. That just talks about smarter ways in which you can repackage what you've got. We're not talking about creative chaos. We're talking about creative clarity and being able to repackage content for different platforms and feeding the algorithm so that you can interject at various points during that for you economy and ensure that you're in people's vision rather than their periphery. And stop putting a lot of time and effort into things that aren't really working ultimately.

10:59Exactly that. And ultimately, what feeds that doubling of your content should be data. You should be data-driven. You should know about your audience segmentation and where your growth opportunities are. And this is something that clearly are two circles we excel at. By identifying the personas that are more likely to interact with your brands, you can then create plans that effectively target the low-hanging fruit, bring more people into your ecosystem, and thereby stay more relevant and keep growing your brand. So when you're talking to some of the rights holders you're working with, how does that conversation go?

11:32with like you're talking to them and saying, look, the stuff you've been doing is not really working. And they're telling you we're doing it. Oh, this is what we do. This is what we've always done. We're going to be letting down this set of our audience by not doing this piece of content. Are they pretty receptive these days or do you still have to find a lot of education, I suppose, going on? They are receptive. And yet it is a journey to go on because there are, to your point, some already withstanding systems and elements that might not be working. And our expertise is to go in and to be able to challenge the status quo and bring what is needed.

12:08Another stat that we haven't touched upon is that by the end of this year, 26 % of the world's population will be 14 and under. They will be younger than the iPhone. And they are consuming content in a whole different way. And so when we talk to our partners and our clients about future-proofing their business to ensure that they can keep growing within the next 10 years and be a part of that$260 billion that I mentioned, we often talk about future fans and bring in some clarity to the way in which they can connect with them in the future as well. And that's in addition to all of the other bits that we talked about, which is right now, how can I grow?

12:47How can I connect more? How can I make sure that I am within the 4U economy at the forefront of people's thoughts? So a complex challenge for the sport industry. That$260 billion number you mentioned, I remember seeing the report that was produced for that. In fact, I spoke to Gareth, your CEO, about that report and hosted one of the events that you guys had out in Stockholm. Yes. And it was interesting to get an insight into the economics model there and the fact not double counting some of the revenue, which I think people might not understand or appreciate how difficult that is because you'll see reported numbers from different sources.

13:21But to find a single source for that revenue is quite a big piece of work. So, look, I think it's definitely worth checking out those reports and the For You piece of work that you guys have done. What's some of the other advice that perhaps you and the team are sharing? there was something I think in the report around tripling your genres I'm curious to know what what that means it's a good question the sports industry as I mentioned is starting to eat the entertainment's lunch but there are sport adjacent verticals that are in our fans periphery and we're talking about fashion we're talking about music we're talking about culture lifestyle mental well-being and and and and so the advice that we're giving is that to make sure you don't just stay within life's board.

14:08Go a bit wider. Think about what could resonate with your fans. So if you remember, I talked about genre mapping and finding out where your fans are and where you could bring the most return. Look to see what they're doing and then triple the genres that you're putting out for them to bring them into your ecosystem. Another stat that we often talk about is then 5xing your big moments, making moments massive. This is a mantra that we have, which effectively means that when your biggest thing is happening, when your crescendo is happening, plan, plan, and then plan for the unplanned and make sure that you are putting in as much content as you can to make sure that you're staying in within the people's periphery in that four-year economy.

14:52Now we're here at the Sportswear Media Summit and a lot of the conversation has been around off-platforms. YouTube is clearly the top topic this year. They've raised themselves to the top of the conversation in almost every aspect of sports media right now, but also all the other social media platforms are playing such an important role. Where do you see any trends from the clients you're working with as to where they're focused on? Is it focusing on YouTube and doubling down there? Is it just being omnipresent across all of them? Or is there one that's really standing out as becoming more of a focus right now?

15:25It's interesting because we are getting a lot of queries about YouTube. YouTube is TV now. I think last year, for the first time, YouTube consumption on big screens overtook on smaller screens. So if you like 10 foot devices in the US, and I am almost convinced we'll see the same in EMEA this year. So we are getting a lot of queries about what should I do on YouTube. YouTube clearly has a whole host of monetization that are prevalent within it. And again, we're advising our partners and clients on how to do that. because YouTube isn't just necessarily throw a video on there and hope for the best.

16:03You need to have a clear strategy around what your long-form content is doing, what your short-form content is doing, what your shorts are doing, what your community management is, and, and, and, and, and. The other piece that we get asked a lot about is what should I do on Omnichannels, as you mentioned. And what we often tie that back to is the goals of that business because you could throw money at it all, but ultimately if you're not aligned to what the business is trying to do, you might not get the return on investment. So we spend a lot of time at the start of our journeys with our clients strategizing based on the business goals.

16:34And then we can give them our recommendations in terms of their content output. So I want to wrap up shortly, but one or two more questions to go. Really on the content side, we have platforms like YouTube and YouTube Shorts, Instagram and Reels. And then, of course, TikTok, this vertical video format. I mean, everyone will tell you you need a different strategy for both or all three. but do you see it mainly that sports basically needs to have a always-on distributing that content across all three or do you really even have to for those vertical video swipe platforms do you still need to be even more bespoke for them as well our view will always be bespoke a one size fits all model doesn't work tiktok for example you can be a bit more fun you can be a bit more personality driven.

17:24You don't have to be as, and I use this term lightly, as dry as maybe as some of your other platforms. Instagram can be a bit more authentic, can be a bit more behind the scenes. So our view is that each of those will need its own bespoke-ish strategy. It doesn't have to be from scratch, but there does need to be nuance between those platforms. But to your point about vertical video, what the data is showing us is that vertical video has 58 % more engagement on mobile videos. We know that. That just makes a lot of sense. And the other piece of data point is that people will tend to remember the brand 90 % more through a vertical video than any other format.

18:05So vertical video is here to stay. And our advice really is to have a global vertical video strategy, but then have those nuances in terms of the tone of voice, the cadence at which you're feeding the algorithm and the type of content that you're putting out based on the platforms. I was speaking to Rollo Goldstab from TikTok yesterday and he basically said from TikTok's perspective, you can't do enough basically on the platform. You can just keep pushing out more stuff. Obviously, the better it will do, but you just got to keep going and keep pushing hard on those platforms. I'd be interested to see where we get to in the coming years with regards to content production and if doubling your content is, where's the point where enough is enough, right?

18:49Well, yeah, indeed. And look, I think the algorithms will tell us, right? Because the platforms do change every day. Every couple of months they change. We're very fortunate to have relationships with those platforms and we get full sight of what's coming. And that's what enables us to be able to help our partners the best. But to your point around TikTok, the consumption that we're seeing around that in terms of Gen Z and Gen Alpha is huge. It's humongous. But actually the other thing that we're seeing is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha put a lot of emphasis on different types of content, on sustainability, mental well-being.

19:21And those are elements that I fundamentally believe as we as sports marketeers and the platform that we have should be at the forefront of what we're doing. Because ultimately, as I said, at Two Sovers, we're trying to build a better future for the sport and entertainment industry. But we don't just mean that commercially. We mean that sustainably. We mean that inclusively. And we mean that responsibly as well. Final question for you. You talked about the different types of content, different types of genres. the thing that stands out to me is um that these different types of genres are stepping away from what the core sports product is you know leading into culture leading entertainment music etc and some people get a little bit resistant to that my question for you is does it matter does it matter if you're servicing serving content that isn't just a live match or highlights if you're getting engagement on the platform what what should do any sports need to be apprehensive of publishing, I don't know, content that isn't truly closely aligned with the sport itself?

20:16No, no, I don't. And the reason for that is that we're already seeing that shift. Gen Z and Gen Alpha consume sport content in a different way. And if we're not providing them with those cultural moments, with those crossovers into fashion, into music, into all of those things that they're already consuming, then I think we're missing an opportunity. And so whilst the product remains the same and will always be consumed in that way. I have a belief that sports needs to go a bit wider. Interesting. Well, look, it's been really great to talk to you, Mo, and learn a bit more about your views on what we need to be doing around content and media and what Two Circles is up to.

20:51But that is all we've got time for for today. Thanks very much, Mo. Thanks, Nick.