Should you go all-in on YouTube? And can you really own your audience?

22:55Nick Meacham:Well, like most things we talk about nuance, there were some agreement in the comment section, but then there were also some disagreements in the comment section. And I think one of the key things came up was, I think everyone agrees that YouTube needs to be a part of your strategy. I think to what degree, you know, there's different layers of that. But I thought there were a couple of interesting examples where people talked about, you know, we're not a tier one sport. We don't have that. But what YouTube allowed us to do was to collect data to then go out and find broadcast partners or to go sell to sponsors.

23:23Nick Meacham:And that's the kind of thing, if you have no access to linear or even if you can build an OTT platform, you just don't have the reach or the scale to drive people to your niche platform. YouTube gives you the opportunity for, oh, Nick, what do we call it the other day when you just walk into something where we created our own word? Remember we created our own word about people? Just stumbleability, I believe was the word. Yeah, where like, you know, there's a couple of people in the comments section that because of YouTube, we were able to prove our business case that we were worthy of sponsorship or we were worthy of a broadcast deal, which I think sometimes you got to walk before you can run.

23:57Nick Meacham:You know, the idea of building an OTT platform might be great, but YouTube might at least validate that you have an audience for it or, you know, build out a sponsorship there. So I thought that was a really interesting comment that came from people about how YouTube can be used in that way.

24:09Chris Stone:Yeah, someone who commented there, which was,

24:18Chris Stone:previously and he's actually spoken to us as well uh i'm not running the pod but definitely the sports protein and he's a really good really good person to be listening to and following with his insight around how a club or a team or maybe a league is trying to enable um this type of activity and is good at also bringing it back down like calming people down a little bit about the excitement um but his point was um that the analytics available on youtube are really first class in comparison to perhaps some other platforms whether it be your own direct to consumer or whether it be other social media platforms out there and i've looked at them and i completely agree with that i think that's that is the special source that youtube does they give you really a full spectrum of access into the insights of how all your content is performing whereas i've seen some subscription platforms including ones that we have that i am still after a couple of years trying banging the drum for more insight into how our content's performing um and where that's all there on a platter so i think particularly for anyone who's in this early stage it is like to your point a great set of validation i think the tricky bit that comes on that part though is what we talked about before again we're going to say it again but that entertainment versus sports part right because if the most successful content in youtube is a non-sports part of that their content then is actually validation of your sports or your your your thesis on what a good sport property looks like, or is it just that you can, the thesis is you can create great content and it doesn't need to be that sport.

25:46Chris Stone:It could be something else that would make you successful. I think that's the tricky bit there, which we can talk a bit more about in some stats in a second, but does that really prove anything out on ultimately the possible success you might have with that property? I'm not sure.

26:01Nick Meacham:Yeah, well, I mean, I'll read it because I got the stats in front of me now and, you know, shout out to Paola Maranoni. I believe you've appeared on her podcast before. She, you know, ex-Google, ex-YouTube, great follow, puts out a ton of information, ton of data. And I'd be lying to you if I told you I hadn't looked at multiple of her posts to find a little inspiration on this. But to your point, she was talking about, you know, is entertainment a friend or foe of sport? And she did some research basically looking at the top most eight watched long form videos of all time on the NBA, the NFL, Major League Baseball, and NHL channels to figure out in In terms of long form, what are people tuning in for?

26:38Nick Meacham:Sports or entertainment? Eight out of eight for the NFL and Major League Baseball were entertainment, not sports related. For the NBA, it was six out of eight. And I'm not great at math, but looking at the NHL, that must be five out of eight. I think I can figure out if it's 62.5, it must be five out of eight. But the point being is if you kind of look at all those, I'd probably say about seven out of eight of the most long form watch videos are entertainment. And it just goes to show sort of that YouTube strategy in terms of, you know, how do you balance that out? I thought that was a really interesting statistic that she was able to dig out there.

27:10Chris Stone:Yeah, completely. I think it definitely got me thinking. Now, there's some tricky aspects to that, right? So those major properties don't have any premium rights on those platforms. They would have all of theirs wrapped up in other deals. However, they do publish a lot of highlighter-related content on those platforms, and they aren't showing at the top end. Now, again, you could find some logic to that. My speculation would be that, yes, the NFL publishes highlights, but it publishes highlights on every single game and it publishes multiple lengths of every single game. So the saturation of highlights, therefore, would be only servicing certain groups, whereas entertainment is effectively servicing everyone, potentially, depending on the type of content it actually is.

27:56Chris Stone:So maybe just that entertainment-related content just has a much more broader appeal for people that are consuming it, whereas the highlights and the sports-specific stuff might be servicing specific fan groups and fan sets more so. Does that make sense? Like you as a Bengals fan, you want to watch more Bengals highlights. But if something happens that – I don't know what one of the top examples was, but I know something happening at the Super Bowl that was funny or random, that's really relevant or interesting to everyone. So I think it's that nuance there that can shift the needle different ways.

28:31Chris Stone:If you took it below that top tier where their rights spread across other markets or other platforms, would that look the same way? I think it would actually, but it's something to think about, I think, is that complexity of highlights versus non-live. and YouTube being a platform that, to your point, is it a sports platform? Is it a platform of sports consumption? Or is it just a platform where people consume stuff and you're there? And that's the tricky predicament, I think, with YouTube.

29:02Nick Meacham:Well, I think we can dive into one of the case studies and, you know, again, pulled up some numbers. Paula listed them out. So we're giving credit where credit's due. She's saving me the work of having to go out and do it. But one of the examples she pulled out a couple months back was the PGA Tour and just some figures from back when that was in May. So some of these numbers, they'll have likely gone up. But, you know, as of about six weeks ago, they had 1.6 million subscribers on their YouTube channel. They had 1.9 billion lifetime views, and they had posted 21.3 thousand videos. So just to give you an idea of the scale of what's on there.

29:34Nick Meacham:Now, I think just for some context, to give you a bit of an idea, because we're talking about entertainment, and we already mentioned Grant Horvat earlier. The PGA Tour has 1.6 million followers, but Bryson DeChambeau has 2 million followers. Good Good Golf has 1.8 million followers and Grant's just behind them with 1.4 million followers. So you're seeing this golf ecosystem of the creator content. One of the other stats that was really interesting, Paul pulled out, was in the 30-day period within May, they had amassed 15.2 million views from shorts, which represented 54 % of the channel's total content, which I find really interesting because I'm on TikTok.

30:12Nick Meacham:or sorry, I'm on TikTok. I don't actually consume YouTube shorts, although that's sort of their apples to apples product. But I do think it is interesting to see how much of their content is consumed in that fashion. And then the other part about YouTube is what, or sorry about PGA Tour we talked about, is they have put in an effort to tap into the creator economy, which I think you can see from what they're doing with some of the comparable channels. You know, in 2024, they launched their creator classic, which was to get, it was a different model, right? Using YouTube, ESPN +, Peacock to get content creators golfing.

30:45Nick Meacham:And I think this last year, they've started getting people like Marquise Brownlee, the tech YouTube influencer involved. They've also got a creator council that what I read in reports meets once a month with a whole strategy around, you know, finding Gen Z. And I think golf is really interesting, Nick, because you're talking about who should and who shouldn't go YouTube or where you should prioritize it. And we know golf skews a little bit older, so you don't necessarily want to leave that linear audience. but at the same time you're saying is that necessary long-term strategy the sustainable probably not so you need to also put things into youtube and i do find the pga tour be really interesting this way that they still have their traditional models via sky espn their traditional partners but they have made a really concerted effort about what they do digitally and i think you are starting to see some of the benefits of what they've done some of that's not directly their channels it's the creator economy around that but it also feels like they've embraced that creator economy and they've not tried to i know we talked the other week about not letting grant film on the tour but there are some places we can't go too far but it seems like they're doing a really good job of balancing those two approaches well the numbers certainly show that and i think

31:51Chris Stone:they are they have been from my experience consuming their content they've been really good at um using highlights in different types of ways that are really interesting to watch and going back into the archive probably as well as anyone to show cool shots and cool experiences happening and that stuff is really good to watch. I find it interesting and I'm not a massive golfer, although I've got pictures of Woods and Great Norman behind me. I'm more aspirational than an aspirational golfer at the moment. But my point is they have done a really good job with the construct that they've got. Now, I'm going to contradict it a little bit.

32:29I would say that this might be controversial,

32:32Chris Stone:but in many ways I do believe that Liv coming to the game it really upset the apple cart in a lot of ways and one of the reasons that upset things with lives golf was very different much more open on access and we've seen what happened as a result of that with bryson doing his channels that you know phil mickerson's doing his stuff now and that accessibility the that more relaxed nature you know even small things but like them allowing play golf players to wear shorts on tour like how mad is it the pga talker plays can't wear shorts no matter what the temperature is but that that was a that was a rule and all these things they started to do i think forced the pga tour to innovate um in a lot of ways they had uh i think it was pre-lived they had oh do you remember that there was like an index basically like a popularity index it was like player yeah yeah there's some sort of bonus

33:24Nick Meacham:scheme at the end of this tour yeah i forget what it was called but i know exactly what you're

33:28Chris Stone:talking about that was an interesting approach that i've no idea if that still exists or not but basically is like a bonus for those that are getting visibility and marketable. They get like a top up basically of earnings on top of what they would earn on the tour, which I thought was an interesting move. I'm not sure if it worked out well and made everyone happy. But for those at the top end, giving the most visibility to the sport, I think it makes a load of sense. And so I do think some of that, some of they've had to innovate by need to stay relevant, to keep growing audiences through those digital channels.

34:02Chris Stone:And I do think innately now people will talk about golf as an older person's sport, older demographic, but all the content I see, maybe because I'm a young buck, is quite young, younger demographics that are playing. It doesn't feel like it's trying to service the older demographics in that content. So maybe it's a small sample size. maybe i'm i'm consuming stuff that is targeted at younger generations that happens to hit me but but my point is that um it does feel like the the flexibility and this approach by both pga tour and live golf and it's and its players has helped skew that audience much younger and anecdotally when i have been to the range here and um in sweden uh and there's a short golf course nearby I only see young people playing only like it is it's it's incredible how young it skews there so maybe that investment by the PGA Tour and and all those other channels that I mentioned has led to it getting younger and interest and popularity and weird quirk in Sweden really weird quirk you know like baseball caps are big right like you know everywhere you go like everyone's got a Dodgers or a Yankees cap or some some sort of variation of that golf caps are massive here like all brands well not not just like mlb like i'm talking titless ping taylor made kids going to school now maybe i'm living in too posher area maybe that might be uh might be part of it but i do see it all the time and i was like what is that cool i'm so i feel like i've just now aged myself exponentially by like judging uh teenagers and what they wear but it's a weird quirk i never thought i've ever seen is like golf clothing is is is cool fair fair enough yeah well pivoting back

35:52Nick Meacham:nick one of the comments that did come up on that first youtube post that we've sort of talked about here that you i wouldn't say you know the kids sometimes say calling it clapping back um is some of the things when someone says something you clap back at them you know someone talked about ownership and their criticism is when you post your content on youtube you therefore basically are giving up ownership of your content. And not to put words in their mouth, the way I interpreted was that's a negative, that you shouldn't be giving up your ownership because in the long term, it's not sustainable.

36:27Nick Meacham:It's not maximizing value. And then you went and created another post sort of elaborating on, you know, what is the importance of owning your data? And, you know, there was a YouTube sort of tinted perspective on that. But again, lots of people commenting on sort of how valuable is that data, how valuable is ownership. But maybe for those that haven't seen the LinkedIn post, just giving them a little bit more of a flavor, kind of what you were getting across on that one.

36:54Chris Stone:Yeah, I just I've heard this quite a lot over the years. And now I think where we're at now with all these other platforms, I think this conversation about owning versus either renting an audience is it's quite frankly a bit naive, a bit misplaced. which might be a bit harsh to some but to say you own an audience is you know unless you own an active paying subscriber base i don't think you can even remotely suggest you own anything you you don't own their their time and attention you your your access to that audience is only as good as your content if you get you keep get them coming back just because you've got them to subscribe on like youtube doesn't mean they're ever going to come back again in fact the people that subscribe to various channels that exist out there, if you don't engage with a couple of pieces of content, you won't even get served that again until you engage with it again.

37:47Chris Stone:Like you will just be off the spectrum there. So that's on YouTube. But if you are owning a platform, let's say you own an OTT product and you have their first party data because they've signed up to the platform, they may never come back to you again. So what do you own? You own 100 % of nothing there. You own some data points. like whoop-dee-doo if they're not consuming the content you don't own their time or anything else with it so i just think the idea of owning audience versus not owning is very misaligned because it's ultimately that the consumer is the one that owns that time and that that that time and attention and all you're doing is doing whatever you can to get them get their attention and they get the maximum value out of that attention and it doesn't really matter if you own it or rent it and that's I think that's a fundamental thing that you do.

38:39Chris Stone:You'll hear a lot of people say, well, first party data is everything, blah, blah, blah, blah. And look, I do think first party data is really important. A bit like you talked about with the YouTube point about the day access to data and insight about who your audience is gives you all sorts of levers you can pull to sell and monetize that audience. If you know who they are in a deeper way, you can't call it owning your audience. I just, I don't think you can ever put it that way. I just don't think that really works in any example that I can think of that you can legitimize it in that sense.

39:10Nick Meacham:Yeah, there are a few comments I found interesting. One of them was Jason Steele commenting, basically, the idea of driving people to your own and operated app, it's a complete 180 on consumer behavior. People are going to YouTube naturally. They're going to TikTok naturally. the idea of trying to drive them to another platform while we can sit here as a business and say, why that's really valuable to have that person come onto our platform. You're really trying to change the behaviors that exist these days. And you're constantly swimming against the current. And is the cost of marketing people to go to that platform, the cost of building that platform going to be outweighed by the benefit you get from finally succeeding and driving them there?

39:55Nick Meacham:because the only people, I don't want to say only, but the majority of people that want to go there, they're the hardcores. You probably weren't going to have trouble capturing them to begin with. You probably already know that person because they're buying jerseys on your e-commerce platform or something. You probably already know those individuals, but how many people are you capturing outside of that that aren't going through that stream? I thought that was a very pragmatic way to think about that.

40:19Chris Stone:Yeah, completely. It's a harsh reality for a lot of people. Is your content really good enough to drive people to your own platform, to make it worthwhile to invest all that effort and resource and marketing and content creation, to create something different and special to drive people to your platform? Or is it just re-skinning what's already like for like? Maybe you're not producing, but other people have similar stuff out there that you've got on your own platform actually existing channels. It's something that we talk about and have to deal with in our business and at SportsPro as well. We produce so much content.

40:50Chris Stone:We have to be really ruthless with ourselves and talk about that. So I was like, okay, is there stuff? going to bring people here and make them come back again and again or do we have to do more where they are um you know there's there's some there's various studies and data i've seen over the years about how like app downloads are going down on smartphones and so forth people just rely on the big big social ones and there's the uh what was the utility apps that you need so like could be buying stuff keeping track of your banking all those essentials shazam shazam i must have my

41:22Nick Meacham:my all-time favorite app you know i just love it just one one use perfect that's it and that's

41:27Chris Stone:that's great utility for that but if you are trying to create a destination that people come back to i think you'd be quite naive to think that if you build it they will come which we is a line we've used many times over the years and i think that's even more pertinent than ever these days so i think that's that is a tricky balance if you believe that you can create something that is really special and valuable and valuable enough to bring people to your platform, then do it. And then you need to just make sure that you've got the flow of audience coming to it to engage with. And hopefully you can turn that into real value.

42:02Chris Stone:I'm not saying don't do that, but you've got to ask yourself the question in sports and media, is it actually that, or is it actually stuff I can get already for free on those existing platforms that they're already on all the time. And that's tricky.

42:17Nick Meacham:Yeah. And another really smart individual that we've had on the pod before has been at our events. You know, he commented on their Yannick Ramkey over one football, basically don't own your audience, know your audience. And, you know, it's still, there's all this argument, like you can have first party data, but if you don't actually know the audience, does owning them actually really matter? And, you know, you sort of put, you know, true D to C still remains a myth. And I think that goes back to your point. It is a bit of a harsh reality. Like you may have first party data, but like, if you're not doing anything with it you don't have the ability to do anything with it like is it does it really matter is it just a nice thing to say like as difficult as that may sound

42:52Chris Stone:oh it's so true though i've had stuff come up come up internally around like audience and data and i'm basically saying to them we have to be more focused on behavior than we have to be on what data who's um someone has filled out a form before or sign up to a newsletter because if they're not consuming the newsletter then they're redundant to us they're not someone who's actually interested in active with us but those people that are behaving consuming things actively they're the ones we have to focus on what are those behaviors that are needle moving that we can then offer more value to and that i think is a growing trend the industry needs to be much more focused on so i think ultimately comes back to but the conclusion here is always it's a balance i think you need a direct you need a first party place you can get some audience you need to do the YouTube bits and get some audience data, then you can marry and compare those up and see how aligned those are.

43:45Chris Stone:And maybe you might see the one skews way one way or the other. Like maybe there's some things you can learn from that, but it is a risky game to say that, you know, YouTube is not worth doing because you don't own the audience. Someone else is owning it. Cause will you ever own them? I don't know.

44:02Nick Meacham:I don't just, they're fickle creatures, Nick, you know, if you start paying them, I'll tell you what,

44:07Chris Stone:If you start paying them to come to your platform, that's the thing speculated for a while is that the data is so important. Imagine if a media platform started paying them to be on the platform. That would be a whole other ballgame. But let's not open up that kind of worms, Chris.

44:19Nick Meacham:No, not today. Now, there's lots of examples, different people that are doing different things. You know, we historically talk about the NBA sort of when they initially open up the floodgates where there was an opportunity to put up the walls to say, no, you can't have access. NBA were one of the first people to sort of knock down the walls and say, hey, we'll figure out ways to work with content creators to use our highlights because we know it's really good for us. We've seen people like Disruptor Leagues, Kings League coming in, Baller League coming in, doing different things. And mostly, although Ballers League has a bit of a Sky Sports thing, largely doing things via YouTube and Twitch.

44:54Nick Meacham:We've talked about Casa TV in Brazil and what they're doing from a content creator perspective. And there's different angles of which we can go talking about different things. But one of the other interesting bits that came up, Paula did again, just reference her. She has a, I think it was a 64 slide breakdown of YouTube channels across, you know, the, you know, the major football leagues and looking at individual teams and some of the interesting things that come up sort of causation versus correlation. how many videos are people producing versus how many views are they getting per creation. And there were some interesting statistics in there and sort of comparing and contrasting the two, sort of which leagues are doing better than the rest.

45:32Nick Meacham:And, you know, Nick, I don't know, particularly for you, if there's anything that came out from their particular teams, leagues, little nuggets of information just about sort of those YouTube stats.

45:42Chris Stone:Well, I think we've mentioned Paula so many times now that, well, hopefully she sees that as some solid plugging. Sound of respect. but also we probably have to get her on at some stage and get her give us a little bit of a deep dive uh on it no it was an interesting read it's um it was basically i think she did in partnership with the sfs event that exists in in italy and uh i mean the most the typical top clubs were at the top end of the bulk of the relevant stats there was a few interesting ones i'd like to focus on let's say the random ones the surprise packets rather than the ones that are you expect you You always expect Real Madrid and Barcelona to be at the top of the Liga, right?

46:21Chris Stone:That's not too surprising. There's a couple of ones that I took away that I thought might be worth rattling off. I thought firstly, one was interesting. That was Atletico Madrid, who actually secured more subscribers last year than all of the others, including Barcelona and Real Madrid, which I still, I didn't think that was really achievable. Now, it looks like from the data, very top level, but they have really only started heavily on YouTube last year. which is probably why they grew so quickly versus the others. But still, the size of audience that they're competing against with Barcelona and Real Madrid did really make me think that they would struggle to ever be able to compete with them on a year-to-year perspective.

47:05Chris Stone:The other one that was quite surprising, just that Sevilla pumps up the most content. So I don't know what's on that platform, but the fact that they're publishing that much, they're not even in the top five, I think of actual content ranking is something just, again, a reminder of perhaps more, which is not always better. From Serie A's perspective, it was super interesting, actually, who was the lead content producer there. Udinese was producing double what any other single club was producing, which is extraordinary.

47:40Nick Meacham:Yeah, and I think that's really interesting because we've spoken to Mike Armstrong, who's no longer at Juventus, but we know he built up a huge, you know, content team there. We know AC Milan with the American investment they've got. They built their own recording studios. And, you know, I've gotten to speak to some of the AC Milan folks. They're the regulars at our Madrid event. I'm sure we'll see them again this year. There's a couple of teams in Serie A that like have put massive investment into like creator networks, content networks. So I agree with you. That is an interesting stat given what I know some of the other teams are investing in that place.

48:13Chris Stone:Yeah, super interesting to see then there. I mean, it was a clear line delineation between the top five clubs in Serie A and everyone else. But then you've got randomly Udinese popping up with producing more uploads than anyone else. Yet they're only 11 thin views in all time, which is not surprising. Random fact, but Verona generates the most views per subscriber, which I don't know, just a bit random. I don't even know where Verona is, but there you go. and with three of the big five clubs in Serie A doing the worst or the least. Again, I think that's a victim of when you've been around for a long time, you've got a lot of subscribers, it's difficult to get engagement, perhaps, like new sets of subscribers to keep those numbers up.

48:56Chris Stone:But nevertheless, see three of the five, when I compare that to other leagues, the numbers weren't as bottom end. What I mean by that is that the top end wasn't as low on the views per video front. quickly I'll go through a couple more the Premier League just basically I've heard Liverpool talked about a lot as like the leaders on YouTube and they are absolutely crushing in pretty much almost every category, Man City was also up there which is no real surprise I think Brighton and oh there was another one was right up there on like a views per video front, I did see Fulham my, I'd say my old club.

49:39Chris Stone:I haven't really followed them too closely over the years since I've moved out away from that area. It was pretty average and mediocre across all levels of measure. And the final one I thought was really interesting was the MLS. Miami was leading the way. Not surprising. They have Messi. They have a bunch of other incredible players there. No shock there. But what was really random was that But Minnesota United FC, which I'd never even heard of before, was number… They're a relatively new franchise. Yeah. Well, they're number two when it comes to generating new subscribers. Now, they are relatively new by the sounds of it, which is ideal, and that probably helps.

50:21Chris Stone:But still, the rate of growth you would expect from some of the bigger clubs, I thought would still beat someone like me, Minnesota United FC. So, I don't know, just shout out to some of those small organizations doing what they can to fight with the big guys. It shows it doesn't always, it's not always the big ones that are doing the most out there. There are some leagues and teams that are still punching above their weight.

50:48Nick Meacham:Yeah, well, what I think is interesting, we'll come back to what I'm going to focus on, is quality versus quantity. Because we talked about on YouTube the way the algorithm works. If your content's not good, you'll find out real quick. At the same time, what does seem to be consistent is all the organizations that are doing well on YouTube. It's not a passive play. You know, we talked about PGA Tours got 21 ,000 videos. There was some other data that I looked into about how many videos the NBA has. You know, we're talking tens of thousands. We talk about these clubs that were surprised by them being successful.

51:24Nick Meacham:It's also because they are still producing a pretty high quantity of content as well. Well, you know, I don't think as realistic or sorry, as optimistic as we are about YouTube that we're saying just plug and play you do it and you're going to have success. You still actually need to have an active strategy to be publishing multiple times. So I do think that is one takeaway where the balance between quality and quantity matches up. I'm not sure, but it definitely feels like there's a minimum threshold with which your quantity must hit to be able to be discoverable and to go through there. No one on here is producing one video a week and having success.

52:00Nick Meacham:It is something they are actively pushing out content. Yeah.

52:03Chris Stone:And the other word really is iteration, Chris. Like I bang this drum a lot here as well at Sports Pros. Like we have to keep iterating stuff because quite frankly, if you keep publishing the same stuff, you need to be consistent with the amount of content you are publishing. If you want to create visibility and get a follower base. But if you keep publishing crap, also you won't get very far, right? So you need to make sure you keep iterating and making it better and better. And that's where the tools of YouTube are so strong that you can really see where people are dropping off, where they're coming from, what content isn't working and is, and what content sits on the fence.

52:41Chris Stone:We have some stuff that goes out and one video might do well and the other one might do terrible. And I can't really tell you what the difference is and why, but sometimes it could be algorithm related and that's it. right so i think you've got to get a good sample size of content and be able to make some decisions and keep iterating all the way through um and not just expecting everything to work magically just because you're a football club in a major league absolutely and there's still so many other topics

53:06Nick Meacham:we talk about there's still some case studies we want to personally talk about and we will do in later episodes and like i said maybe we need to call paul up after how much for stuff we've gone through with on the next time we talk about youtube but i do appreciate everybody tuning in Like I said, go find those LinkedIn posts of Nick's if you want to see some of the comments. They're averaging about 30 comments, lots of people, lots of opinions, lots of interesting stuff there. But do appreciate you joining us for this episode of Streamtime Sports.

53:29Chris Stone:Tell us what you think as well. Reach out to us through our requisite social channels, whether it be on those posts that Chris mentioned, or just reach out to us through DMs or email if you want to and let us know what you think and join the conversation. But thanks, everyone, for joining.

53:48We'll be right back.