The Masters explained: The business strategy behind golf’s biggest event

0:05Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the next episode of Streamtime Sports. My name is Chris Stone, the community lead joined as always by our CEO, Nick Meacham. Now, Nick, we're recording this on the Thursday before Good Friday, which for those in the UK means we get back to back four day work weeks with the bank holidays. But also, Nick, it means that the Masters is upon us. And when this podcast releases it should be the um the start of the the three par the the par three tournament that always takes place before um and nick i'm gonna make an admission long time listeners will know i've recently started my golf journey on a personal level i've never actually watched the masters but this year nick i will be as a as an active participant and amateur golfer i will be tuning in well exciting i think the masters is really one of the only tournaments where i think if you are remotely into golf you have to watch it it has such a unique like just the the environment the experience the the ups and downs of that golf course um people could shoot seven under one day and then shoot seven over the next and then probably even worse it's it's got its own character it's so unique to anything else definitely in golf but i think even in sports uh everyone i talk to people they just get a little bit excited you can see their energy change um when they watch that event so and the par three is always a good bit of fun there'll be no doubt some highlights and that's really where you i think even start to appreciate how good those golfers are because i think when you watch it on tv sometimes you know see that someone hit from either 200 yards out hit a six iron whatever to five feet you're like oh that looks pretty cool and then when you go to the par three they do like skipping shots where they'll hit their their wedge along the water and it runs up onto the green and like they can pull out some all sorts of creativity there and then you see the caddies and then the family taking shots and they're also way better than i would ever even hope to be uh just shows it gives you a bit of perspective there's always levels to those things nick um you know we've talked about the olympics to just go have an average guy um i'm sure everybody would be really really really entertained if i went out and golfed next to um fleetwood or scheffler and you could just see me you know throw a couple ball let's put this way you could not safely stand where the audience currently stands naked it's the craziest thing i found about professional golf we're in the t-box and people should right there because like if it's me i'm probably taking your head off i mean i've seen some shots i can remember vividly from from tiger woods hitting a shot that it's like in the woods where they've had to pardon the pun had to clear out the uh the audience and there's this this row on each side of his golf shot which is it must be two meters wide that just funnels 100 meters out to the fairway you're like everyone there's about 2 000 people standing in front of that golf ball that are in danger of i hit the next shot here and he's just hits this beautiful shot slices through or fades it through the the the group of people lands it on the green you're just like come on it's something else so i get very excited about watching it even though i don't play as much golf these days as i uh would love to absolutely well today nick we're going to try something a little bit different and take a bit of a historical look on the masters provide a little bit of a background on the history of the tournament its relationship with the pga tour and some of the the intricacies of the masters and i'll be honest with you nick doing the research i mentioned i'd never personally watched it and obviously learned some things about the history of the tournament but even some of the business stuff that the masters intentionally does i found incredibly interesting it is totally the opposite to what most other you know sports organizations are doing now granted nick it's a it's a tournament that takes place over a few days you know it is It's not the same as the NFL or the Premier League.

3:42Even something like Wimbledon or the Olympics takes place over a much longer span of time. But there were some really interesting things I learned from this, Nick, and I'm hoping people will take some of that. And also we're going to have some conversations sort of what makes the Masters unique, not just the tournament itself as golf, but what it does from a business perspective. It is really one of the most unique, I think, case studies because we often talk quite a lot about the mainstream leagues and competitions, and there's a lot of similarities in how they operate. and even the legacy of how they've grown, that things like the Masters and maybe Wimbledon and some of these unique events that happen, they do have their own special flavor, their own special way of being what they are today.

4:20And I'm quite excited to take this new approach with content and see, yeah, not only will we learn something, but hopefully we can really make sure that, you know, there's some entertainment value in what we're going to cover today, but also people will walk away going, oh, shit, I didn't know that. And that's a good outcome is if you say, oh, shit, I didn't know that some way along this journey, then we've done our job today. Yeah, if you knew all this, then credit to you. But I certainly didn't. So, Nick, if we just take things back, the Masters Tournament, as we know today, began in 1934 by Bobby Jones and Clifford Roberts at Augusta National Golf Course in Georgia.

4:53The crazy thing is Augusta National only opened the year prior, 1933. So the golf course had only been newly opened before they started the tournament. And just for some context, the inaugural winner, the prize money was$1 ,500, Nick, big-time money. this year's winner will walk away with 4.2 million so you know we're always talking about inflation nick you know prize money um you know i didn't do the breakdown to see what one point or what 1500 would be worth today but you know the prize money has certainly gone up nick but as we dive into the history nick looking at bobby jones i i wasn't aware of him but he's considered one of the greatest golfers yeah considered one of the greatest golfers of all time he's largely credited with popularizing the game of golf particularly in the u.s and between 1923 1930 he won 13 majors but it's now credited as seven majors because i think they've changed what are defined as majors now compared to what it was but nonetheless seven majors is still impressive and we'll still give him credit because you can only play the tournaments that you were in nick so really really talented yeah that's true that's true i've i'm sure i have heard of him given he's won that many things in some sort of trivia competition but that's quite an astonishing number and i've never heard of this thing about someone losing the bunch of majors that they had won um yeah i must have to look into that yeah yeah well that that's just what that's what the record books tell you nick so i got to go with the facts that are on the official pga tour website after retiring bobby met clifford roberts who i mentioned they set the whole thing up and nick this was the really interesting part because we just had a conversation last week about private equity well clifford roberts was a businessman and an investment banker and he shared a vision with bobby about wanting to create a premier golf tournament so nick i do find it really funny that we just had a conversation about private equity and this won't be private equity in that sense but it does seem athletes like to meet rich businessmen in their retirement and set up new businesses well and i guess you know the legacy of this is to be it's built around actually the golf course and everything that was built around it not just the competition itself but it is pretty fascinating to think of that investment layer happening basically what 80 80 90 years ago whatever the number is um clearly they were quite progressive back in the day in in georgia very much so now initially the tournament was referred to as the augusta national invitation tournament however bobby envisioned a much more prestigious showcase for the best golfers in the world and that's where they adopted the name the masters so it had a much more i guess generic name and then they went on to call it the Masters as we know today.

7:28Now, Roberts, bringing in his business acumen, introduced several aspects of the Masters that I would say are largely synonymous with the tournament still today. You think about things like the green jacket, that was an idea that came from Clifford. Now, originally that was for members to have, and it wasn't a part of the initial 1934 tournament. It wasn't until 1949 that they handed out the first green jacket to winners, but that was part of his idea of you know creating this mystique around the tournament he was also the one that came up with the par 3 contest which i mentioned at the top of that so throughout this you can kind of see both um their vision of having this prestigious golf tournament introducing some of these little marketing ploys around the the green jacket and the par 3 contest that these guys really in some ways are probably really ahead of their time nick yeah super progressive if you think about it everyone's trying to manifest all these new ways of creating accelerated tradition and ways of building appeal and excitement and they were right at the forefront of it i um i find that really fascinating to think that green jacket has been in in place for basically what's that 75 plus plus years and is by far the most heralded um i guess piece of clothing attire that i can think of i don't think of any other is there any other things that you can think of that are like uh a standout in sports or alike i don't like i don't think you can do the jacket like or sorry not comparable to the jackie's like you get the super bowl rings like those are always talked about the super bowl rings a good shout but i feel like those rings and like i don't know if you've seen some of the nba rings that have come out recently i guess it's easier for the owners when you only have to buy 12 of them and not like 70 of them um but i'm trying to think if there's any clothing items i'm sure there's got to be some stuff in like rugby or cricket where they give out things nick surely oh well in in a straight in cricket there is the baggy green which is basically it's the cap they wear when they play test match cricket.

9:21That is, and that's now sort of talked about as I've had 100 baggy greens, which is basically I've played 100 times for my, represented my country. That's kind of got the same sort of prestige, I think. So there's a few examples there. Yeah, yeah. But I don't, yeah, I agree with you though. I think the green jacket probably stands above the rest of them, at least when I think about clothing items. At least less blingy than the rings that we talked about. that's for sure uh now i'm going to take things over a little bit from here chris i think so um let's let's look a bit further ahead with the masters look they continue to grow from strength to strength uh from those days from back in 1949 as you talked about with the green jacket and the masters was the first golf tournament ever televised starting in 1956 so it's really been leading the way for nearly well basically 70 years uh now in early 1956 clifford roberts approached NBC to discuss the broadcasting rights for the Masters, and the NBC's always been one of the leading outposts for sports content ever since it's been founded.

10:27But they declined to even enter negotiations and actually cited the short timeline of only 60 days to get terms agreed as the main issue. In the process of negotiating with NBC, a letter from Roberts was mistakenly delivered to the CBS radio broadcaster John Durr, and Durr had been involved with the Masters since 1945 and had a nice, a solid rapport with the tournament. So he would go on to facilitate a meeting in New York with the CBS executives, which obviously would turn into one of the longest standing relationships in sports and sports broadcasting today. It's incredibly crazy how that happened, Nick, but that's the longest, I believe, broadcast history of the US.

11:11But Nick, do you know, without cheating, and you can say if you knew before or not what the longest relationship is between a sports property and a broadcaster is it american it is not american okay that makes it even harder british it is british bbc and wimbledon you are correct 1939 was the first time that the bbc broadcasted wimbledon and that is the longest single running broadcast relationship in sports I just guessed that actually. But it's eerie kind of the similarities. Whenever I think of the Masters and I think of any other sports property, actually the first one I think of before even golf tournaments is I think of Wimbledon.

11:53I think there's just so much similarity because of the legacy and the prestige of those events that have held on to those foundations. And it just goes to show, I guess, having longstanding broadcast visibility and relationships has allowed them to manifest those traditions and has stood the test of time. So fascinating. Yeah, well, I'm going to ask you some questions about that, but let's finish and get us to modern days relates to some of the broadcast stuff. Right, well, looking back, so 10 years on from that first broadcast I had with CBS, it also provided the first color broadcast of the tournament in 1966.

12:29And CBS was hesitant or resistant, I should say, to the idea in the first place due to just all the extra costs that come associated with new technology, I guess, assigned some of the times even today. however Roberts strongly pushed the adoption of color broadcasting and that was a monumental moment for the tournament for the first time fans could finally see the signature you know pink azaleas the white sandy bunkers and the vibrant winner's green jacket which is still synonymous with the tournament so many years later over its time on broadcast the masters have been filled with star performers like obviously Jack Nicklaus and he's won six masters the Tiger Woods and his record-breaking performance in 97.

13:10I still remember watching that in 1997 so I was what 13 I think at the time and I remember watching this it was just blew me away how much he just dominated dominated the field and these days coverage has expanded. Initially CBS was the sole broadcast partner with the primary focus on just the final two days of the tournament and now coverage includes the first two rounds being covered by ESPN for the last 20 years and will also for the first time actually this year include coverage of those rounds by amazon um which is quite was definitely a new layer to it all uh and cbs's own streaming platform platform plus will include some streaming coverage on it as well so it definitely i guess sort of changed up the landscape a little bit for what was a very set playbook for the last couple of decades absolutely and i think one of the things to consider is well just to provide a little bit the context of what we're talking about from a scale perspective if we look at 2025 in terms of peak viewership for the final round the masters we're talking about 12.7 million viewers is what's recorded now the super bowl was 115 but we know the super bowl is an outlier in itself it's not particularly fair but the world series in 2025 was 12 million the nba finals was 12 million stanley cup was 4.5 million and if you look over the last five years besides the super bowl it is arguably comparing with almost on par every single year for the last five years with the world series with the nba finals um and above the nhl stanley cup so when we think about the major leagues you know apart from the nfl super bowl which is the cream of the crop it's pretty much pulling on par with all those major events and to think about it right the timing of the event it is held during you know usual hours not not in those peak peak windows you know in the evenings that the nba uh the NBA finals will be the Stanley Cup and the World Series.

14:59So it's actually generating those numbers at a much earlier time slot, which makes it, I guess, all the more valuable for those that are broadcasting that live. Yeah. So, Nick, as I was doing this research, I think I've always in my head known that the CBS is the home of the Masters. Like, it's the slogan. But I never really actually thought about the fact that it's been 70 years that they've been there. And I think we have so many conversations on this podcast at our events, talking about the fragmentation, all these new streaming platforms and everything that's going on. How special is it that this partnership has gone nonstop for 70 years and we just think about how crazy the industry is?

15:41I think it's incredible. I think it's extraordinary. And I think the only reason it happens and it's played out this way is because the Masters hasn't been chasing the biggest media rights check. It hasn't been holding broadcasters to account and overbidding for those rights like every other sports property, particularly in the US, but indeed globally does. They'd be much more bullish about, I guess, telling the master's story the way they want the story to be told. They don't need to generate extra profit. They're already very profitable as an organization running that event. And they're kind of happy with, I guess, investing those funds that they are making and bringing in back into the whole ecosystem rather than trying to just chase more money and more money, more money.

16:26If you think about, again, the similarity to Wimbledon, I think just the layer of that is that the BBC actually has, or the UK has, that major events legislation where the public service broadcaster has to have some rights of major events. And Wimbledon is one of those. So that's probably why that's being able to play out. But it's full credit to the Masters organization for being so comfortable with leaving money on the table for the sake of controlling the message, creating an incredible experience and continuing to undoubtedly have the best event in the world because they've taken the approach they have.

17:07Well, it'll be worth checking out, but our own Steve McCaskill is writing a piece that's going to come out on basically the tech stack and the business of today's Masters, which will be taking place next week. So we won't go through the whole history that we're covering, but just on this. But he mentions that the Augusta organizing board, they're leaving tens of millions on the plate from their broadcast deals. He basically wrote it down as it's a nil sum in terms of what they're requesting from their domestic broadcast, partners but what he says that actually does for the tournament is it actually gives them incredible leverage because basically to them they're giving this to cbs they're not necessarily charging a big fee which then allows them to actually have an incredible amount of say on the way it's broadcast so for example they don't broadcast every single piece of golf that's out there you know they limit to what's on there uh there's limitations to advertising broadcast or to sponsorship all these different things and it's a really interesting approach that you know they're basically saying we're going to leave money on the table but it's going to give us more control over the final product i think it even goes to show the pressure that clifford was going to be able to apply to say hey we want this done in color because we're not really charging you for anything and that might be even free cbs to really push the bounds of what they do from a production perspective um because that relationship so it is really interesting that that's that structure um whether it is as much as Steve says, it's a leverage play to be able to control so much of the output because they're not charging a fee for it.

18:38It's really interesting dynamic. But it feels like that the reason they do that is different to what anyone else would do it for. They're protecting the master's brand by having that control. They aren't so focused on leveraging it through other commercial means in the same way others might do. At least that's what it looks like, unless they found some unique way around London to make pay through other means. It looks like they're just so focused on protecting everything that it is to do with that master's brand that they're willing to leave money on the table to keep that leverage and flexibility or control where others would be willing to take a more premium rights check to lose some of that control.

19:21And there is an element of trust and I think it's okay for broadcasters. Most of the top ones will work with the rights owner to make sure they find that optimal balance. but obviously some will focus on commercializing over you know over everything else so it is a really cool and unique way to approach these things which i'm quite uh quite quite happy to see that someone someone's running sports like okay a bit more traditional like the way sports feels like it should be yeah well we mentioned they do have this deal with cbs and they do have that degree of control over it but they do have the other partner in espn they've also now we just mentioned onboarded Amazon as a partner for some of the early rounds coverage.

20:04Why was it important for Masters to take this expanded approach? We've already said here, they're not necessarily following the model of get as much money as you can for whatever. Why exactly, or why is it important for them to expand it more than what they have done in the past? Yeah, I was curious about this deal i wonder whether they decided look we can we we think we want to expand the visibility and um there's actually a rights carve out here that exists that we can lean into here that we can put out to to tender and what i mean by that is basically i think they'll have all games available oh sorry all shots available on amazon in a more customized experience what could be wrong there uh definitely definitely a streaming carve out i should have looked that up beforehand but basically they will have a slightly different set of rights to what espn have and i could think because they're not really worried about it maybe espn didn't want to commit to as much financially i'm not sure they had more flexibility there uh basically they might have said to espn quite simply uh we'll uh we'll continue to give you the rights for a discount but we're making it non-exclusive now tough and we're going to get more visibility by handing it out to more streamers and it doesn't really yeah from the master's lens hurt the brand so much Now, from the broadcaster perspective, is there a benefit or any hidden value in not being the exclusive partner?

21:26Because surely if CBS wanted to, they could be the full-time partner and do the early day coverage. Now, I'm sure part of that is CBS has sat there and been like, hey, the Thursday, Friday doesn't fit our audience of who's tuning in. Is there some sort of benefit to not necessarily being a wholly exclusive partner? Because we've had conversations, there's pros and cons towards exclusivity versus non-exclusivity from both sides. well the only thing i could really see given the great deal that cbs has is even on those other days they're getting immense value by having the masters on channel the only thing i would think that could happen given the investment and spending we've seen from the new owners of paramount is you could see them maybe try and make a play where they say actually you know what esp and amazon we we want all the rights ourselves and we want to host it in paramount plus and and make it a little bit more exclusive whilst we give all that visibility on our free to wear and free-to-air streaming channels as well.

22:20That could be another layer that could come into it if they wanted to. But again, Amazon and ESPN do bring, even if it's marginal, new eyeballs and audiences because of the breadth and depth that CBS have. So they don't need to deal with that if Augusta wants to keep, you know, just widen the visibility of the sport because obviously clearly the numbers show that there is a huge market for it. Yeah, and the last question on this before we move on, Nick, and there may not be an answer to this because I was trying to think about it. We talked about how big a moment that would have been going to color for the first time, particularly because the white sand bunkers and the green jackets are absolutely the thing you think of in the Masters.

22:59And I can imagine where that would change the experience. Can we really think of anything modern day that would be equivalent? Because I would just imagine like going from black and white and everything to color. I'm just trying to, you know, there's been some nice cool features that I've seen added, but I'm just trying to think if there's a modern day equivalent to something like that that really felt like it changed the game. I don't think it's as significant as going to color, but I do think things like streaming, when streaming went live for the first time, was kind of a tipping point. It wasn't necessarily probably a big needle move for everyone because not everyone was tuning in for it, whereas I imagine when color broadcasting came to the fore, everyone was like, I would have got to see what this looks like when it was launched initially.

23:43But I think streaming is probably the first thing that comes to mind even like actually even not streaming video but even streaming of radio back in the day when that was the first time people could start tuning in to listen to live sports online that was quite a revelation uh at the time but I think anything comes close to when color broadcasting came into play I mean it gives just such another dimension to watching uh watching the live live match could you even imagine watching sport today without color that'd be just mental man I watched like footage from like the 1990s and I'm like I can't even see it's so grainy like i'm so embedded into like four game beyond like i struggle just watching tv from like 20 30 years ago i'll never forget when i uh i think it was cricket where they um they changed to like just hd and all of a sudden you could see like the blades of grass it wasn't just nice like the field wasn't just green but it was actually you could see the definition you're like oh whoa we've been living uh we've been neglected for quite a while here this is a whole different vibe and experience so yeah i'm not sure how much how much further they can go with it to be honest because i think it's pretty clear these days but i don't know if you could ever have something as dramatic as color coming to tv or you know streaming going live again but who knows yeah and if you got an idea send it to us let us know where we've been wrong on that because there's probably something we we've just gone and underappreciated well i was just thinking there's some small things like you know might be the implementation of like um the fourth and the the first downline basically yeah so really additive meaningful changes and progressive things to the broadcast and there's something i think with cricket that they did that i can't remember there's obviously was things like um uh not the equivalent of var for cricket which then escapes me or um yeah those types of things but again marginal in the grand scheme of things yeah well as we move forward nick and we talk about the masters i do think it is worth discussing the PGA Tour and its relationship with the Masters as well as the other majors.

25:40So the Professional Golfers Association of America was founded in 1916. But as we know, the PGA, that kind of began in 1929 when they hosted their first official tournament. As golf became more professionalized, which was also shockingly around the same time that it started to be televised, the golfers felt the PGA of America wasn't adequately addressing their needs, particularly in terms of scheduling, prize money, player representation, you know, standard things that unions fight for. This led to a breakaway group in 1968 forming the PGA Tour. This newly found organization would take on managing professional golf tournaments and catering specifically to the needs of touring professionals.

26:19This would split the PGA Tour and negotiate its own TV rights, sponsorships, and player contracts without the constraints of the PGA of America. Now the PGA of America still exists. It still serves club professionals and helps promote golf at an amateur level while the in while the pga focuses specifically on the business of top professionals that being said the pga of america still coordinates the pga championship and the rider cup so interestingly nick uh we're not planning this time talking about live golf but apparently this is part of golf's nature you know i i knew there was two different associations but i didn't understand how they got there other than they existed i was like the names are really similar why are they so similar but so interesting to hear that was all linked with again just commercialization opportunities and clearly golf again has gone from strength to strength on that front with the purses on all these events being just i think i saw like 10 million for the last tournament a tournament i never even heard of had a 10 million prize purse so clearly they were on to something uh back then now tell us i'm gonna jump in here yeah tell us more i'm gonna jump in here for the uh the pga tour now the pga tour which is i think quite crazy is they host events from october to september every year so basically all year round and every year across locations across the US and also internationally.

27:34Now, there are three types of tournaments they host. There is the standard events, which obviously the form of the core part of the schedule. There's the majors, which include the Masters, the US Open, the Open Championship, I should say, and the PGA Championship. And then there's the FedEx Cup playoffs throughout the season. FedEx points are awarded for results at every event and then there's the FedEx Cup playoffs which are an end of season tournament for the top players and the prize money is insane in that event. Now the majors themselves and the PGA Tour hold quite like a special relationship I suppose.

28:11While the majors are considered a part of the PGA Tour schedule and FedEx Cup points are awarded at those events, unlike the standard events the majors are organized by their own respective hosts. This also includes those organizations negotiating their own separate broadcast deals, all completely separate to the PGA Tours broadcast deals. Now, the Masters, as mentioned, is run by Augusta National Golf Club and has those relationships that exist with CBS and alike. The PGA Championship is run by the PGA of America and is also partnered with CBS and ESPN. US Open is organized by the USGA and is with NBC as a broadcaster.

28:51And then the Open Championship is obviously led by the RNA based in Scotland and in the US is partnered with NBC. It's worth noting that UK's Sky Sports is the broadcast partner for the PGA Tour and all of its majors and actually has a dedicated channel to Sky Sports Golf. Now, the PGA Tour currently has broadcast partnerships with CBS, NBC, and ESPN. And these deals take on different tournaments, different days of the tournament, and also include streaming options across Paramount +, Peacock, and ESPN +, obviously soon to be ESPN flagship, which also includes the PGA Tour live product, which I remember PGA Tour launching at the time.

29:33I think that's the product where you can watch and follow all the action happening on the course all at one time. That's all integrated into that ESPN plus proposition. Yeah. So Nick, when we talk about that, that is a unique relationship between the two. What do you make of that? Because like I said, they are separate entities. They are also preferential entities. Like it is an interesting balance how the two manage, operate. It does feel quite unique in that sense. You know, I can't think of other organs. Like, you know, it's not quite Champions League with the Premier League going on. Like, you know what I'm saying?

30:08Like it is quite unique, that relationship that they have. I think it's pretty similar in tennis as well that dynamic between the majors and golf maybe we need to do a tennis one at some stage I mean Wimbledon will come up in a couple months don't worry yeah um but I think it I think it's the best way to get the maximum out of the situation because I think in in the sum of all of its parts the PGA Tour is a really valuable product that's going to drive highly affluent audiences interested in golf and the like and fill up the programming schedules of all the broadcasters they're partners with really really effectively and that's why it's able to generate quite significant media rights revenues but i think if the majors were just wrapped into it i just have a feeling that sometimes the that let's say the per round value of the majors might just be mitigated quite a little bit but they would find it really difficult to negotiate those deals with broadcasters if they didn't have it together but the fact there's a disassociation there it allows the majors to to carve their own path and not have the pga They tour in a bind in trying to negotiate deals with broadcast partners and feel like they have to incorporate something of the majors and lose some of the value of that in the middle of negotiations, if that makes sense.

31:18So I think it kind of works for all parties, the fact that there's this dynamic. And in the U.S., largely there's only a couple of operators that ultimately have those rights anyway. So it doesn't really have too much negative impact of consumption. Yeah, and it's interesting. you know the same people are housing that product ultimately you know we've talked about sky wants to be the home of this the home of that so it makes sense that they have everything and just i'd imagine that that's an interesting dynamic to those relationships where you know we've talked about sky doesn't necessarily feel the need to broadcast for you know other rights like the bundesliga or the ligo because they already have so much what do they need more for it so i guess it's sort of that conversation you have some golf do you need more golf do you need all of golf and just sort of what that balance is between them or you know if i'm the master saying i already know that these relations i guess maybe the master is a bad example because they've been with one person for 70 years that the definition of loyalty um but for others like you know just knowing those relationships exist elsewhere like if that just makes the negotiations easier because there's familiarity that probably does but i would say also that there's a there's two distinct dynamics there right espn make revenue basically monthly of someone subscribing to their services or through cable because they have so much breadth of content all year round right so they are people are buying access or paying in some way shape or form to get access to their breadth of content so if you're a golf fan you go to espn to watch the golf or you are going to watch it on their channels that's where they host it but for those major events you know people at abc like cbs and even nbc the main way they make money is basically through advertising revenue and sales right so those big tempo moments is what they specialize in monetizing and selling if that was wrapped into the espn they're also very good at that and they have the abc lever but they've also got the core of revenue coming in through those traditional like golf fans coming through their channels because the fact they have the pga tour they wouldn't be able to get as much value out of it relative speaking as cbs would by putting all of its eggs into we're going to maximize the value of this major event and drive all of our advertisers to spend on this on this opportunity so i think it's uh it leans nicely into that that dynamic for about all for all parties now with golf one of the things that we have seen we talked about the star performances that have taken place i think there's been a conversation around what's golf going to do after tiger you know i don't i'm not sure this isn't to get into golf to that degree and argue about who's better than what but like I think there was a hope that Rory would take the mantle.

33:51I'm not sure he's taking that Tiger flame. The NBA has had that problem. Michael retired, but then very quickly we got LeBron and Kobe. I think people were wondering what was going to happen to LeBron, and I'll just put the crown on him. I think Wemby's going to take that. But does golf have a star power problem that if there isn't someone that either root for or root against that it'll have? Because we've seen viewership can go up or down depending on who's there. So is that a problem golf has or is that perhaps a bit overstated that it needs someone to carry that? Well, history has shown with sports.

34:27If there is a king or queen of the sport, normally the ratings go up. People like to see greatness in action. And I think with sport and sports like golf now, maybe with tennis to some extent as well, it can still prosper if there's a couple really top-level stars competing against each other. and really competing at the highest, highest level, at their top echelon. But I think if you want to be at the level of, let's say, the Woods effect, you do need someone to shine brightest for that to happen because there's still every tournament, there is your one out of 50 or 70 competitors in a tournament.

35:06You can lose each and every tournament you are in. I do think that currently golf is in pretty good health for a couple of reasons. And one is actually a lot of the successful stars today are a young younger i should say they're getting much more visibility on different channels they are like bryson obviously de chambeau and what he's done for the sport i think is is lost on anyone who doesn't follow golf i think if you follow golf and you see what he's done for the sport i think he's raised himself up but he's also just made it much more accessible and interesting to younger generations and i've seen some stats thrown around about the growth of golf in the u.s and it is booming over there it is really booming from strength to strength that could also be a legacy of the societal need for for for activities that are you know in greenery out and walking and about and taking extended amounts of time i'm not sure but for now they're they're flying pretty higher over there and it's not even just the golfers which does help the there's a real explosion of golf creators i was looking it up there's multiple golf creators on youtube that have three million 2 million subscribers um which are significant numbers i think bryson's already up over 1 million at this stage um there's a couple different instagrammers that have i was looking up have 3-4 million followers and i guess the what would be interesting because we've asked the question a little bit recently because we've done the podcast at tiktok and we sort of talked about does sports need social media or social media needs sports i feel like golf is probably compared to some other sports benefited more from social media particularly in recent years given the amount of content that's been published i mean i think we agreed it's about 50 50 i think golf has a lot to be grateful to social media for and some of the content creators that are making it a bit more youthful oh 100 i can't think of any other sports that translate that well but it feels like just quite frankly the youtube version of golf is a much more entertaining version of golf exceptions being major events and tournaments like your masters and a like way that can be incredibly gripping in general you get to it's well edited you get to see just you're right in the thick of the action it's it's really must like you constantly engage in the in the viewing experience the whole way through i just think it just creates such a better vibe for people to watch and consume and they try different styles of play you know it could be it can be best ball or what are they called scram texas scramble and yeah trying different initiatives that make it just more appealing and you get obviously a taste of their personalities which you don't get quite often anywhere near the same level in golf when you're watching general tournaments so quite frankly i think you're right i think it's had a huge effect i think i've watched more youtube golf than i probably have any uh you know across the year more tournaments it's because i do find it really an easy watch yeah well nick we'll focus a little bit more kind of on the exclusivity specifically around the masters and talking a little bit beyond their broadcast i know that's It's not something you and I cover all the time going out there, but Nick, we can do these things.

38:07And one of the stories that comes out every single year when they talk about the Masters is how affordable concessions are. You know, the$1.50 pimento cheese sandwiches, the hot dog prices. There's always like, oh, look at this, you know, really bougie event and how cheap and affordable everything is. But the reality is getting a ticket to the Masters, Nick, is I think considered the hardest ticket in sports to get. It may be more difficult than getting a Taylor Swift ticket. but I did some of the maths in order to get a ticket you need to apply for a lottery there's no there's really no other way unless you want to go really crazy and get one of the sponsorship packages which I just isn't in my my wheelhouse but anyways it's estimated that roughly two million people a year apply for what's only 22 ,000 tickets per day meaning you have less than one percent of the chance of ever winning the lottery now if you are selected tickets for the practice rounds go between 75 and 100 so not too bad but those prices go upwards of around$140, depending on which day, which round you go to.

39:04Now, one of the things that the Masters has a very strict policy on, has done more in recent years to do that, is they have a strict no resale policy. So you can find some tickets on resale in secondary markets. A, you're paying incredible amounts. I've seen anywhere from$8 ,000 to$12 ,000, so well over what's listed. But also, it's incredibly risky. No guarantee you're going to be accepted. And even some seeding websites like SeatGeek have recently pulled all Masters resales from their websites. So they are trying to preserve that a little bit, Nick. And I think just for comparison, I did some quick looks on things.

39:36The U.S. Open hosts between 35 ,000 and 40 ,000 guests per day. So that's nearly double what they're doing there. The British Open in 2025 broke records with nearly 280 ,000 people in attendance across the four days, including 90 ,000 people at the practice rounds alone. Wow. So it's much harder to get a seat there. And the other thing about the Masters, Nick, is that they enforce a strict no-phone policy. You have to check your phone and other electronic devices while going through security. Their stated aim is to enhance the experience and again maintain the prestige and tournament of the event.

40:11So Nick, it is quite exclusive. So while people may talk about the experience once you get there, you have a very slim chance of ever getting there. Yeah, I wonder how many people try and smuggle telephones in just so they've got that technology there. surely surely they would be because that is in this day and age is pretty much unprecedented normally you would want uh you would want most event goers now really want people to take their phones and take images and share and alike and actually none of that happens it's quite it's quite extraordinary that they are able to still continue with that notion but you know obviously it looks you know it looks great on tv as well when you just see the fans just absolutely enthralled into every moment it shows what can really happen rather than people looking for a phone it does definitely create a whole different vibe and experience and i wonder how people feel like they're getting a tech detox whilst watching one of the greatest uh sporting events in the world must be quite an experience walking walking away from it i mean honestly when i put my phone down just to go to football practice i feel like a new man so yeah i could imagine uh for the concession prices and everything else like it probably is a really refreshing feeling like the masters probably isn't wrong it's probably for the better of us it's just it's so different than everything else Nick because everyone else we you know we've talked about the NBA we've given the NBA a lot of credit when we talk about exclusivity versus inclusivity the NBA has been very much you know they were some of the leaders when it came to UGC letting people post content on YouTube they were very much about it where the Masters has taken a different approach to that and I mean I does the Masters even need it I don't know Nick they seem to be doing okay well whatever they're doing whatever they their approach is they seem to be happy taking less visitors and taking less money and full fair play to them i'm all for it it's good for everyone involved i mean those ticket prices you shared are are an absolute bargain really in comparison to what you get a full day of a few a full day of tournament viewing for 120 to 140 dollars but good luck trying to get an nfl game for that price uh looking at a world cup ticket for that price i mean that's a whole that's a whole other ball game so i love to see it uh i the that i always thought because that the whole notion that they sell sandwiches for a dollar fifty i thought yeah yeah but ticket prices must go for thousands but uh clearly uh that's not the case i'm sure there must be some sort of allocation that goes through third-party operators that makes that um pushes up the premiums but yeah definitely a must event to go to now let's let's talk a little bit about more the sponsorship and other commercial side here the masters has a very clean approach to sponsorship they've got six major commercial partners um where which include delta rail lines at &t ibm mercedes-benz ups and rolex i mean pretty much some of the biggest names you could think of in sports sponsorship now due to augusta national's aim to keep sort of the prestigious feel of the masters those partners are actually given very minimal exposure on site and limited to i think it's something like just four minutes of advertising every broadcast hour.

43:12And again, that is one of the things that you pointed about, that CBS relationship. Clearly, that's part of that dynamic in that deal is that they get four minutes of exposure on CBS's channels. Similar to their approach with broadcast, the Masters have had a three decades-long partnership with tech giants at IBM, which has led to significant increases in the way the tournament is actually engaged with fans on their digital platforms, it is largely heralded as one of, if not the best, sports event app going around. Now, here's some of the features I'll rattle off. The newest ones to go now is the new Masters Vault, which is a search function allowing fans to basically engage with the Masters history of content by using agentic AI.

43:59Here we are. Here comes AI. in combination with the competition's database with other AI techniques wrapped into it to identify personalized clips from over 50 years of archive footage instantly. Now, you must be a real golf nerd looking at 50 years of footage, but hey, I'm sure there is a lot around the masters. They also have whole insights where they provide fans with real-time performance data and analysis on every single shot from the competition. And I think I remember last year tuning in and they actually had, I think, some AI-related commentary running over some of the games and the shots happening, even just on the data visualization, not on the live broadcast because it wasn't available on the app.

44:43Well, one of the things I was looking at as well, they can provide you statistical analytics as well where they can not only give you stats real time for that, but they can say compared to last year, this was the fairway percentage or these are the amount of people that hit the green. Again, just using all that data that they have to not only provide you the real-time statistics, but even provide you a little bit of analysis comparative year on year. So I think that's one of those examples of where, depending on the type of fan you are, those are the kind of things that you absolutely love to see.