In short
Streamtime Sports discusses three media-rights/streaming deals and their implications: FIFA+ moving onto DAZN, Apple winning U.S. F1 rights, and La Liga’s struggle to sell pan-European deals (plus related football business commentary).
Guests/backgrounds
Hosts only. Chris Stone (community lead) and Nick Meacham (CEO). No other guests are interviewed.
Key claims
- FIFA+ democratized access via free, ad-supported global streaming, but monetization and distribution value haven’t met expectations.
- DAZN taking over FIFA+ tech/content distribution may reduce FIFA’s costs and keep the platform alive, though live FIFA rights are a small portion of the offering.
- Apple’s $750M/5-year F1 U.S. deal makes sense because Apple isn’t ad-driven; F1’s ad model is constrained by nonstop race coverage.
- La Liga faces a “squeezed middle” problem: fewer stars, weaker global pull, and broadcasters/streamers want only “moments,” not whole seasons.
Notable examples
Wembanyama’s breakout as a sports fandom analogy; FIFA+ “40,000 games” first-year scale; F1 Pro funneling into Apple TV; El Clásico vs selling standalone; Barcelona Miami match cancellation tied to protests/players.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOExcitement Around Wemby
0:45 to 4:38
Discussion on the impressive start of the Spurs and the impact of Wemby.
“It is truly, I mean, it's always been this buildup for the last couple of years about how good he is.”
The FIFA+ and DAZN Deal Analysis
4:38 to 11:24
In-depth analysis of the FIFA+ platform's launch, DAZN's involvement, and future implications.
“We talked about how we appreciated the idea of it being sort of an ad-supported model, free access.”
Monetization Challenges and Future Prospects
11:24 to 14:00
Exploring the monetization challenges faced by FIFA+ and DAZN's strategies.
“That was another way that they could generate income.”
Analyzing the DAZN and FIFA+ Deal
14:00 to 17:42
Explore the implications of DAZN's partnership with FIFA+ and its potential impact on accessibility and revenue.
“a bit like the Club World Cup deal of links with, you know, one of the things that DAZN has done quite successfully is extract a lot of value and support financially from obviously through surge from Saudi Arabia.”
F1's New Deal with Apple: Financial Insights
17:42 to 25:56
Discuss the implications of Apple's F1 deal, including financial changes and shifts in media strategy.
“So I guess the nice thing is, Nick, the next story we're going to talk about, we have much more concrete details on so we can be a little bit more informed with some of our opinions on this.”
Future of F1 Broadcasting and Fan Engagement
25:56 to 28:00
Examine the future of F1 broadcasting under Apple's ownership and potential audience impacts.
“Well, one thing that did come through, And there was a bit of a question mark about if Apple got involved, what would happen with the F1 Pro offering, all the bells and whistles.”
Analyzing the Apple-F1 Deal and Market Strategies
28:00 to 30:12
Discussion on the implications of Apple's exclusive deal with F1 and potential market strategies.
“It's a good chunk of money, but if it is global, that is probably only 10 % of that will probably come out of the US.”
La Liga's Challenges in Securing Broadcast Rights
30:12 to 34:08
Exploration of La Liga's difficulties in selling pan-European deals and the impact of lost star players.
“Moving on to the next one, you mentioned Sportel Monaco.”
The Value of Individual Matches vs. Centralized Rights
34:08 to 36:32
Debate on whether La Liga should sell individual marquee matches to maximize revenue.
“The days of media rights checks coming as a second, third tier football league in the market, I think are just gone.”
The Impact of Fan Engagement on League Growth
36:32 to 40:48
Discussion on the balance between fans' desires and the financial pressures on leagues to grow revenue.
“If they could sell our Classico alone to Netflix or one of the major platforms, they would probably be worth a tidy, tidy sum and they'd be willing to pay for it because it is such a big moment in European football.”
Show all 12 chapters
Real Madrid's Legal Battle with UEFA
40:48 to 42:00
Overview of Real Madrid's lawsuit against UEFA and its implications for European football.
“And this kind of has the same feeling of it.”
The European Super League Debate
42:00 to 43:36
A discussion on the challenges facing football and the controversial European Super League concept.
“But I mean, it shows how messy the state of football is.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:04Nick Meacham:Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the next episode of Streamtime Sports. My name is Chris Stone, the community lead, joined as always by our CEO, Nick Meacham. Now, Nick, as of recording this, I saw a statistic, which actually feels a bit crazy. It's not that it's, you know, this is the case, but apparently the San Antonio Spurs, for the first time in franchise history, have started 5-0. Given the success that that franchise has had, it seems a bit crazy to think they've not started a season 5-0. But kind of the reason, Richard, is have you watched any of the highlights of Wemby this year so far?
0:32Chris Stone:I have seen a few of the highlights. And it is like one of those things you've seen at high school where like the year, I don't know, the year 12 kid, the 17-year-old kid starts to play pickup ball with the 13-year-olds and just bullies them. Like it's unbelievable. It is truly, I mean, it's always been this buildup for the last couple of years about how good he is. But to see that now, whatever he did, that Shaolin monk temple has clearly paid off because he's up to the next level. That's for sure.
1:03Nick Meacham:It's just like when in a video game you can build a player and you just build a player that's just unrealistic. It's literally what it is. He's dunking without leaving the ground. It's just like you shouldn't be able to do all these things at that size.
1:15Chris Stone:Yeah, I remember playing some video games when I was younger when that custom player building thing became a thing. and having a lot of fun with that where you'd build, in the NFL Madden game, I built like a 7 '6 running back just because it looked stupid and it was a bit funny. And I tried it with a bunch of other different sports as well. Like, yeah, but you can change, obviously, players like Messi too from his little 5 '7 to being 7' behemoth if you can customize the settings. But it is a whole different world. I was actually talking to the NBA yesterday on the prep call for our media summit session that we're running next month.
1:56Chris Stone:And they were just waxing lyrical about how impactful, not only how amazing he is, but how impactful it is just to the fandom around the NBA globally. It has really got everyone paying attention. And it's an incredible story. Like from day one, and even when you heard him talking before we got drafted, you just knew it wasn't going to fail. The only thing that could fail him is his body breaking down, basically. I think he's proven that he can take another gear from where he was last year.
2:25Nick Meacham:Yeah, and it's an important thing for the NBA. We talk about it all the time, celebrity-driven athletes and things like that. I think there probably is that question. LeBron's maybe got a year or two left, and KD's never quite reached that level of LeBron to start him. Steph Curry's only got a couple more years left. There's always that question of who's going to take it over. you know, Patrick Mahomes took the throne from Tom Brady a little bit. And, you know, who was going to be that next person, you know, once LeBron stepped away. So, yeah, it just it it seems very well prepared and like having to be international, I'm sure helps like and as you say, like he's incredibly well spoken.
3:02Nick Meacham:Like, yeah, I mean, it seems a pretty fortunate thing for the NBA to be saying goodbye to LeBron and, you know, Steph Curry and Katie and some of those guys and sort of welcoming in a new era of Wemby.
3:13Chris Stone:Yeah, I'm amazed at how personal or how much of, I guess just when I first heard him speak a couple of years ago, obviously he's come from France. Typically French and their English is a little bit not quite as advanced as perhaps others in terms of being able to speak eloquently and become a face and a brand. But within a few months, I could see that he put so much effort in. And you heard that thick American twang coming through his interviews. And he's really grown as this personality alongside that. So, and he's got a real, what do you call it? Like a clean image, which I think the league would love.
3:50Chris Stone:They don't want to, it's nice to have a couple of like bad boys and your Iversons and those types of plays that have come through. But he just gives them something that they can hang their hats on. Again, fingers crossed that he holds, his body holds up for the next decade or so. because that is, I really think, the only thing that's going to stop someone like him.
4:08Nick Meacham:Yeah, you're not going to see anybody defend him.
4:11Chris Stone:And I would say just quickly, for anyone who isn't a fan of the NBA, but isn't a fan of basketball, just go and check it out because it is a different thing. It's one of those things that, I don't know, you can think of other sports where Tiger Woods brought fans to golf because he was doing something that no one else could do. I almost think if he can continue that sort of level of he's playing a different game he is changing the way the sport is played and if you don't like
4:38Nick Meacham:basketball go check it out because it is something else absolutely he's genuinely that freaky but moving on to business stuff nick we're going to start off there's a few new juicy stories um they they include you know talking about um some of the streaming platforms that we've all been talking about and following um so we'll kind of jump just straight into a little bit nick we're going to talk about um fifa and da zone um we talked about kind of what a big accomplishment it was for fifa to launch the FIFA Plus platform at the time that they did. We talked about how we appreciated the idea of it being sort of an ad-supported model, free access.
5:12Nick Meacham:We knew that it wasn't going to have the big major games, but it was a good way to democratize content around the globe. And just the scale of it, I mean, what did they do? Something like 40 ,000 games or something like that in their first year? Something like that, yeah. It was a really incredible number given what it was. We also know that FIFA's got the relationship with DAZN from the Club World Cup. There's also talking about the money funding from Saudi Arabia, which is being invested into DAZN. But there's also the World Cup being hosted in Saudi Arabia, I think. What is that? In 2034?
5:46Chris Stone:I'll go with that.
5:47Nick Meacham:It's 2034. Yeah, it's somewhere along those lines. It is 2034, Nick, because the U.S. is 2026. The 2031 is the one that's going to be hosted in like three different continents as an excuse to then go back to Saudi Arabia in 2034. So there's all those ties in there as well. But it's now been announced that DAZN is going to continue to add another streaming platform onto its existing platform, you know, NFL Game Pass, NHL. They've been doing this approach of basically onboarding other people's platforms into their own. and FIFA Plus will now be the next platform to be hosted on the DAZN network, I suppose we can call it now.
6:28Chris Stone:Yeah, it's an interesting journey to get to this point and a fascinating deal to see come to life. I think this first got preliminarily announced just after the Club World Cup, right? And when I heard the announcement, the first thing I did, I reached out to both sides and said, well, does this mean that the actual standalone product will cease to exist? and I did it again this time around and both of them are saying, you'll have to wait and see basically, which I find really just bizarre. What's the concern about just making it clear what's going to happen? One thing, some things I heard through the industry was basically a deal was agreed very swiftly between both parties and now they're still trying to work out what happens and whether that's true or not, I don't know.
7:17Chris Stone:Other speculation that I will speculate on is, is this an extension of the Club World Cup deal? It was already pre-agreed, which goes against the other point, but let's just say that that's a question. Is this a supplementary thing that's been added in because maybe the Club World Cup didn't deliver the value relative to the revenue that DAZN expected from it? Is an interesting thing to consider. is this a step for zone to get get further embedded with fifa so when the world cups come along the next one subsequent ones they're going to be a better chance of basically actually getting some of those premium world cup rights lots of questions about the whole deal in itself and i taking a step back the fifa plus product and the proposition what i loved about when it launched Yes, it was free access, but it was also democratizing and giving access to all those under-resourced, underdeveloped countries and federations as part of FIFA to be able to get their games broadcast and streamed and available to fans in their markets, but also globally.
8:26Chris Stone:People don't underestimate how big that was for, I think, some of the lower tier countries to have that capability. But the challenge has always been about this monetization challenge. if they had launched this without this massive price tag hanging over its head, whether it's this billion dollar number that Infantino suggested that they were going to get investment for a few years back and it was just going to be an extension and an initiative. And I would say add to that, that what I was hearing was that there was a lot of reassurance. I won't say promises, but reassurance that FIFA was going to use this as a revenue driver, that that money was going to get then distributed to all the member associations.
9:11Chris Stone:And if none of those things are really happening to the level they expected, that's probably where there's been not much choice other than let's cut all the costs away from running this platform, hand it over to Zon who's an expert at these sorts of things, will be able to basically keep the lights on and keep this platform alive in some capacity, in some variation of it, what it's meant to be. And they're happy because they've got now the FIFA brand associated with DAZN, giving them more of a global audience. Although, again, like you said at the start, the media rights they've acquired is going to be marginal.
9:52Chris Stone:It was actually a really small part of the entire release was, oh, and you'll get live matches available. The rest was all about all the other editorial and non-live content you'll get. So it's going to be a hub. it's going to be focused around content. Live will be one part of it, but it won't be like the new destination for everyone to go to consume FIFA stuff in there. The same way it could be if they started to put some more premium stuff in there. So I'm not sure how I feel about it all, really.
10:19Nick Meacham:Yeah, it's kind of like if you put two pies together, the amount of games that were on FIFA Plus is actually the majority of the pie, but the games that are actually worth something are actually the very small minority of the pie. So that's where it's, I guess, a little bit, I don't want to say misleading, but like, it just needs to be understood like, yes, that 40 ,000 number is really impressive, but actually that 40 ,000 number probably really actually isn't worth even maybe 1 % of 1 % of like what the world cup is going to be worth. So it's sort of like, there's that dichotomy between what's actually being offered versus what's actually people, broadcasters be willing to pay for.
10:54Chris Stone:Oh, 100%. And again, to emphasize the point, but this was a real valuable proposition for those developing countries who didn't have the capabilities to monetize and to distribute the content. So basically the onus was on say some of these countries, let's say, I don't know, an African country like, I don't know, I'm going to say Senegal, just randomly, I'm not sure how advanced their ecosystem and infrastructure is, but allow them to have, all they have to do is get the feed into FIFA's ecosystem and they'll do the rest they'll get a broadcast line they'll make the games accessible for everyone to watch and they can add that advertising layer revenue revenue generation to create some sort of income for them even if it is marginal but just having the games visible for people across the world it also was allowing those lesser countries to have their teams and potential talent available because you know how much transfers are worth right and scouting's worth and that sort of thing Imagine if more of that was being democratized and more junior stars in countries and regions like Africa and Asia were being easily accessible to other pro clubs and teams as well.
12:10Chris Stone:That was another way that they could generate income. Just think if they sell one player at a decent level, that could be a game changer for some of these lower tier clubs and nations. Or I'm not sure what the future of that holds. Is that going to be something that's still going to be available? or I kind of sense and fear that that might be put to the side because it's not a needle mover for DAZN and they need to worry about their own best interests, would be my guess. But who knows what that ultimate agreement and what the end result will be. I'm not even sure they know.
12:38Nick Meacham:Yeah, well, that's the interesting thing, right, is I think the$1 billion is kind of what was reported as someone taking an equity stake in FIFA+. DAZN is obviously not paying$1 billion for this, But to your point, they are going to take over the hardware side of things in terms of the development, which isn't nothing. But I don't, again, I think it just sort of clouds or muddies the water a little bit as to what this transaction actually is. Because like I said, I couldn't tell you how much it costs to build a streaming platform, but I assume it's less than a billion. So like I just sort of, I don't know, muddies the waters a little bit, I guess, between like it's clear what DAZN is offering.
13:18Nick Meacham:I just don't, yeah, I'm scratching my head a little bit too, Nick.
13:21Chris Stone:Yeah, well, look, I think, first, we know it doesn't cost a lot to build a platform on this, but with the complexity of reaching all the different nations and providing them services, what I understood, it is basically a monetization driver for them, whether it's enabling them to just have their content more available or just to create organic advertising revenue coming off this platform. And it has not worked to whatever the expectation has set out, at least from what I can see from outside in. So look, yeah, if a DAZN adds another layer to it, I have no idea whether DAZN have had to pay a load for this.
13:58Chris Stone:I'd be shocked if they had unless it's linked with some, again, a bit like the Club World Cup deal of links with, you know, one of the things that DAZN has done quite successfully is extract a lot of value and support financially from obviously through surge from Saudi Arabia. um Riyadh season became their premier I don't know sponsor or DAZN content if you remember that announcement a while ago and Matchroom were in partnership with DAZN running events out of there and running their pay-per-view stuff from there originally and they're heavily linked with the boxing side of things so again is this like just basically another way for that um let's say for further revenue to be able to be generated through DAZN rather than having to come through basically through means through saudi means directly through fifa channels which is a little bit more complex and complicated again i'm not sure what the outcomes are but that definitely opens up the door for that types of those types of deals and monetization to be made a little bit easier because just don't have to don't worry about all the complexities that come with being uh in international federation so we'll have to wait and see the the other question i would ask
15:08Nick Meacham:flipping it on the other side is is this even in the best interest of fifa and the way i'm going to phrase this is we the way we've sort of talked about fifa plus it's about accessibility it's about it's a reach play because there's no subscriptions it's simply about how many eyeballs can we get to try to drive as much advertising is there's only even the best place for this like would you argue and maybe this goes to the point of a really quick deal you know i don't know all the tech um perspective but like obviously youtube tv is launched um and the nfl um sunday ticket so they do have stuff like this now granted it wouldn't be a subscription like that but if the goal is to get as many eyeballs on as possible as to zone, possibly even the best option of places for FIFA to try to put this platform?
15:50Chris Stone:Well, I mean, it all depends on where you draw the line or what sort of content we're talking about, because obviously YouTube and YouTube TV is pure video, and we'll definitely get bigger audiences. But their emphasis was on all the other content that comes up with it. So the non-live stuff, there is the editorial aspects of it. Maybe some of the FIFA.com coverage that they have around And some of the other leagues might be filtered into that as well. So they are trying to build a hub. And like I said before, the live part doesn't feel like it's as big a flagship component of this deal as you might think.
16:25Chris Stone:It might be, but it's not presented as such, at least from how I digested some of that. So is it the best place for it? I don't think I could think. If they wanted to have this hub concept, if say FIFA suggested they wanted that, I can't think of anyone else who would be a better partner for them globally to do that type of thing. I'm not sure about DAZN's breadth on the editorial front to tell those stories and whether they would just be funneling FIFA content or doing it all themselves. But I have seen them actually, I think, hiring people in the editorial roles and they're basically promoting some roles in that team.
17:01Chris Stone:So maybe that's all linked with the same initiative. But look, I think DAZN basically in the end, they get another little layer to add to the mix. How needle moving is that for everyone? I think they've got also the major challenge of educating everyone again in new markets. It's DAZN. Like DAZN is not going to be known in a lot of those, again, developing countries because Club World Cup was only really relevant to those clubs that were involved. So they still have a lot of work to do for visibility and awareness. So, yeah, it's a bit of an odd deal overall. And I would love to have FIFA Plus just to stay as is, but it was almost inevitable that it wouldn't.
17:42Nick Meacham:Yeah. Mike said, I think there'll be a lot of stuff we come to learn later on because there's not a ton of details and it sounds like you're reaching out to people and they're telling you to wait and see, so they're not sharing it either. So I guess the nice thing is, Nick, the next story we're going to talk about, we have much more concrete details on so we can be a little bit more informed with some of our opinions on this. And this, I guess, is finally just confirming the whole expression where there's smoke, there's fire. We've talked about Apple was going to be a leading contender to land F1 rights in the U.S., and that has now been confirmed.
18:17Nick Meacham:A five-year deal,$750 million. That basically just nearly doubles. It used to be$85 million a year when they were with ESPN in their previous deal in the U.S., so just shy of completely doubling that. So I guess a few interesting things. I mean, for me here, Nick, like, hey, they've doubled it. Congrats to them on that. I guess my initial take on this is it was alleged that Amazon offered more money than ESPN when that deal went through. and sort of the argument or justification that we sort of guessed was whatever money Amazon was going to be willing to pay over, ESPN would have provided enough value as an editorial business, as a marketing business to drive awareness that it would make up for whatever money it lost.
19:03Nick Meacham:Because your point, Amazon, similar to DAZN, would have had to do some education or bringing people on board, like ESPN is going to give you all that extra stuff. Is this more of Formula One is now just prioritizing, let's just go after the biggest paycheck? Or do they think after the ESPN deal that there's enough popularity and a brand awareness in the US that they can forfeit some of that editorial coverage that they're just not going to get with Apple?
19:28Chris Stone:It's an interesting question, isn't it? I was thinking about this coming in, about that conversation we had a few years ago, basically, and they're where we are now. I just think the need for editorial coverage from the media outlets isn't what it used to be because of the power of social media. So whether it's F1 producing their own stuff, whether it's all the influencers and other people creating content or just having all these different touch points of audiences, does ESPN covering you in the news matter as much as it did four or five years ago? I would suggest it doesn't. So it's just not quite what it used to be.
20:02Chris Stone:Also, when I was living in Jamaica, I would say that I was watching ESPN quite a bit. We used to get it there. I think it was by and large the core linear product we were getting. I didn't really see much chatter around F1 at all. It wasn't like it was a part of the conversation alongside the NCAA or the NFL or anything like that. It was very sporadic at best. And even the broadcast production they were using was just largely the UK feed from Sky. They weren't putting a lot of effort into it to make a real big commitment. So, look, I think it's not as important as it used to be. But there's no question they will lose significant audience off the back of this deal.
20:44Chris Stone:Significant audience numbers for F1. There's no question about that, right? So they have to be comfortable with, by losing that, that the ongoing touch points they were having with fans is now going to dip and how they're going to adjust for that. Okay, so maybe ramping up social will be one way. but another thing i think to think about before i go down that path is why is this product not worth more the ip the brand is really valuable but there's really one important thing to think about um in the u.s um f1 well in the u.s u.s is obviously such an advertising driven market right it's all about ad breaks in every major league competition and how they monetize that We see all the coverage coming from it.
21:31Chris Stone:You and I have talked quite a bit about the growth of advertising through streaming as well and how that's going to prevail globally. Well, the one thing that's really important to really understand with F1 is where's the ad breaks coming from? You can't put an ad break in the middle of a race. You're going to miss all the action. It's basically it's nonstop for the whole race. You can do overlays and different types of smart branding. And that's why the actual in-race signage is worth so much. because of that always on side of things. But because it's not really a good and solid ad product, it is definitely a really good subscription product.
22:08Chris Stone:F1 is really good for that. But in this day and age, we've seen the move. It's all been this focus around advertising. And a product that maybe drives subscription but doesn't move the needle or doesn't allow supplementary monetization in the same way does limit the growth potential of F1 as a media rights driver, as a standalone product. And that's why actually the fit with Apple makes a load of sense for that because they aren't running a big advertising business. And this adds another layer to an offering that clearly needed another premium brand associated with it.
22:44Nick Meacham:Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the other interesting things and like they'll come a little bit in our conversation before is like, there is this whole issue of like, you know, I think Ben Wells at PTI describes it as the squeezed middle, where when you think about how much money is being invested in the NFL, now in the NBA, there doesn't leave a ton of money for other places, you know, is someone that's already investing billions in the NFL, all of a sudden going to put up more cash for Formula One, which let's be honest, like is maybe the second or third biggest racing competition in the States.
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23:16Nick Meacham:Like I know over in Europe, it's the biggest, but like NASCAR still really big, IndyCar still really big. So it's not even the number one motor competition in the U.S. And that's before you start filtering in the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, NHL, all the college sports. And the Premier League is growing over in the U.S. So, like, I think there's the other side of it as well is, like, there's probably just not a lot of money left to go around once everybody's split up all their budgets.
23:41Chris Stone:100%. I mean, that definitely plays a role. However, I would say that if they thought that it was going to be a massive revenue driver, money would come from somewhere. So maybe it's given a couple of percentage points off some of those major college billion dollar deals and that would instantly double these numbers. But yeah, I think you're definitely on to something there. Look, I love this deal for Apple. I think it is they needed something after the MLS deal to add more depth to their sports product. And let's face it, F1 has been huge on technology and all the brand sponsorships we've seen.
24:16Chris Stone:We've seen Android and Google and other major tech companies, Oracle and all Salesforce and all. I can keep going. All are linked with F1 in some way, whether it be Teams, whether it be the competition itself, in a pretty big way. So there's obviously a clear dynamic there with that tech story that really suits a premium brand like Apple. And I would say F1 is a pretty premium IP business. so there are some synergies there that they will be able to leverage for the Apple brand itself and we saw that play out obviously with what they did in with the F1 movie deal which generated several hundred millions of revenue and actually when it's all said and done will probably equate to the total value of these meteorites perhaps by the end of its full course so there's a lot a lot to love about it from Apple's standpoint.
25:09Chris Stone:And it's not really a big investment for them in the grand scheme of things. It's not a needle mover. So I think it's a no-brainer for them to make this move. But for F1, I do find it's a little bit of a standstill move. I don't see the upside in this for them. I see it as like, okay, they're getting a little bit more money out of their meteorites than they would have otherwise.
25:28Nick Meacham:Okay, great.
25:29Chris Stone:I don't see how Apple's going to skyrocket their brand and visibility to the moon by anything they can do. They might. I would be surprised if you don't see an F1, two, number two coming up and they find another way to bring that to life. And maybe that's linked with all this. But I just don't think this is going to see a jack, a basic, what do you call a hockey stick in audience growth or fandom just because they're linked and visible on the Apple platform anymore. Yeah.
25:59Nick Meacham:Well, one thing that did come through, And there was a bit of a question mark about if Apple got involved, what would happen with the F1 Pro offering, all the bells and whistles. And it does seem like that product is going to stay in existence embedded within Apple. So I think, A, I think we're happy because I'm not the biggest F1 fan in the world. But I do like it when you have the ability to really, I guess, feed the hunger of people that really want to deep dive into stuff. So I guess it is nice to see that there were some rumors what might happen with that platform. because I know in the UK, I don't think you can even get it.
26:32Nick Meacham:You can only exclusively get Sky. I don't think you can subscribe for it. So I think that was a question mark. So to see that it's going to continue to exist is nice, at least in my opinion.
26:40Chris Stone:Yeah, the F1 UK product, from what I remember, is that there is one available, but it's missing the live racing with all the full bells and whistles in the US, basically. I mean, it depends on how you want to position it. The F1 product will be shut down, I guess, or will be migrated into the Apple platform, a bit like the NFL Game Pass approach, I suppose. And indeed with the NBA and Amazon, actually. Again, I was talking to them yesterday and that came up in conversation about that. So what it's allowing them to do is really create a nice, natural funnel of audience, basically for people who are accessing just the Apple TV proposition to easily be able to try and push them into the more premium product.
27:21Chris Stone:And Apple's pretty good at marketing. So maybe that will be something they can really bring to life and help F1 basically generate a lot more value out of it than they were before. So I'd be interested to see if they can do something special with that in terms of really funneling a lot more people to the more premium product. I heard, I think it was on, I can't remember what podcast it was on, I think it was on Unofficial Partners, one that they did recently with, at Sportel I was having listened to the other day, and one of the numbers that was shared on that was that they believe that the value of the F1 Pro TV product is around$40 million per year, but they weren't really sure whether that was global or just the US.
27:58Chris Stone:Let's assume it's global. It's a good chunk of money, but if it is global, that is probably only 10 % of that will probably come out of the US. So it's going to be not much of a needle mover there. So there's a lot of upside potential for all parties if Apple can help increase that funnel to the premium proposition. Yeah.
28:18Nick Meacham:Well, next story we're going to move on to, Nick, is a comment that was made from the recent Sportel event. And, you know, go on.
28:26Chris Stone:Sorry, just before we jump into that, I would say one other thing just to think about is, obviously they've announced this is an exclusive deal. That means all the rights will be housed in Apple. I would expect that basically you'll see similar series of steps like we did with the MLS deal. MLS, yeah. Where eventually some rights will be sold on to free-to-air partners, particularly the U.S. races. Exactly. Because they'll be great on the prime time. will be great marketing visibility for the Apple and for the F1 as a whole. And so those high value races will be then sold on to a free-to-air partner to maximize the value of, which they have rated quite well, whether it's Miami, Circuit of the Americas and Vegas.
29:09Chris Stone:So that's the only other thing I would add to that is that I wouldn't expect Apple to just sit on this for five years. I would expect eventually at some stage they'd be mad not to get some extra visibility through those other free-to-air channels. So I expect that to come over time.
29:22Nick Meacham:Yeah, definitely. I mean, as you mentioned with MLS, they did all different kinds of things. They even did things with our friends that won football. I mean, I think there was still some stuff on Fox and things like that. So yeah, I would expect that to not exclusively live behind that paywall.
29:35Chris Stone:Yeah. And just for context or something for us to think about, which I found quite surprising to digest is obviously the MLS is, what, is it the fifth or sixth biggest league in the US? Maybe. Seventh?
29:50Nick Meacham:Depends on if you're counting college sports, yeah.
29:54Chris Stone:I mean, like maybe 10th in terms of scale. They're getting a bigger per-annual, per-year check from Apple than F1 is. Just thought that's an interesting thing just to put in context of the scale of this. It is such a minor investment for Apple in the grand scheme of things.
30:12Nick Meacham:Moving on to the next one, you mentioned Sportel Monaco. and there's a conversation with La Liga president Javier Tabas who fortunately I think is one of the most entertaining execs in sports in the sense of many of them.
30:26Chris Stone:I just wish I spoke Spanish so I could understand him firsthand.
30:29Nick Meacham:Very true. But he's one of the few execs it feels like probably got some notes from the comms team and then just looked at him and said, I'm going to say what I want to say sometimes. So it's nice to have that sort of degree of freshness. But one of the things that came up as interesting, and we covered as a story on SportsPro, was he made a comment around sort of the difficulty of selling pan-European broadcast deals. And, you know, we've kind of always known that pretty much the domestic league is really popular for the European individual market. Champions League is really good. But then it is a bit difficult to drum up interest from, you know, other markets for those domestic rights.
31:07Nick Meacham:And, you know, I don't think that comment is necessarily surprising. But he did say, like, hey, he's open-minded to the idea of La Liga potentially coming across some pan-European deal. And we're seeing more of the appetite for these global deals, whether it's a zone with NFL Game Pass or Amazon with the NBA. These big streamers, although we just talked about Apple being exclusive to the US, we are seeing more of these deals where they want more of a global reach. They're not just satisfied with a single market deal. And just the idea why it's so difficult to do in Europe, but what would it maybe take to start seeing some more pan-European deals outside of your domestic markets?
31:46Chris Stone:So I think there's a few things, right? One is something like La Liga. I kind of feel like they've missed the peak or they've gone past their peak, let's say. And the main reason for that is they've just lost so many stars that I would watch La Liga because I wanted to see Ronaldo versus Messi and Barcelona versus Real Madrid. And I used to know every single player on the field for both teams. Now I couldn't tell you half. Now I'm obviously a sample size of one and not yet their core audience necessarily. But I do think with losing Messi, losing Ronaldo, losing Neymar and slowly losing several players across the league, those identities that they did help build up, now puts them in a really tricky proposition of how they can build audience and build value in new markets that they could offer before.
32:34Chris Stone:And I just don't think in particularly this, whether you call it the squeeze middle or just that rung underneath the top tier, they just are clearly sitting in that bucket. I've lived in a few countries, traveled a lot. I never, these days in the last few years, I never hear anyone, when I talk about football, ever mention really La Liga these days. They'll always mention the Premier League or the local league. And Premier League does such an incredible job of like globalizing and holding that top spot in everyone's hearts. It's like even in Sweden here that people will normally support two teams.
33:09Chris Stone:Again, I think it's a pretty classic model. The local teams that they're super passionate about and one of the Premier League sides. And they sit in a great window. And what also is really big in somewhere like in Sweden is that the seasons don't clash that much because in Sweden… They have a big winter break, don't they? Yeah, well, they basically actually play the season in the summer. They stop. So it's actually a completely different season altogether. So that allows basically to follow football without it competing with another requisite league. So anyway, my point basically is that I do really think they are going to struggle to get any longer term meaningful media rights revenues and media rights deals happening.
33:51Chris Stone:Like we've seen with the Bundesliga and La Liga in the UK, they're going to be looking for like, I don't know, not shortcuts, but things that just help them access different audience sets. and the monetization is going to have to come from advertising and sponsorship deals and just focusing on mass visibility and reach. The days of media rights checks coming as a second, third tier football league in the market, I think are just gone. I just can't see whether it's going to come. Now, could you see definitely a DAZN who's got a relationship with La Liga in Spain look to maybe do a pan-European deal?
34:26Chris Stone:I think that could make some sense. But I don't think we're there yet because I think La Liga will still, in some markets, want a decent size, probably more than their rights, maybe like perhaps what their rights were worth. Maybe not what they would be in the future. So I think they're in a bit of a limbo zone for the moment and are not really sure how they'll get through this. And then you couple that with that big check they got from CVC, which was built on media rights growth as their measure, because that was the stickiest to measure against. they are in a really really tricky position yeah and roger mitchell um who we know always has great
35:04Nick Meacham:great opinions you know you got to speak to him you know a couple months back up in your event in sweden you know he took this post and kind of put his own spin on it kind of talking about this is actually maybe a bit of a warning sign and again talking about that squeezed middle mantra the sort of the idea that if you can't find pan-european deals like you know that that's actually problematic You know, that's sort of emblematic of sort of the state of play of things and almost like wanting to own moments. Like, El Clasico is still a big game, but like no one else is, you know, no one else is interested in the other ones.
35:35Nick Meacham:You know, he went so far as to say like, are broadcasters just going to leave you behind because there's so much media content? You know, he went further to say like, does Major League Baseball have too many games? Like, at what stage do, you know, we talk about Netflix wants to own moments. Netflix doesn't want the whole season because, you know, we use baseball, for example. Well, 162 games, most of them, unless you're the local fan, they don't carry that sort of gravitas. You know, Netflix wants the Christmas game. Amazon wants the Black Friday game. Like, is sports perhaps getting to a point?
36:06Nick Meacham:There actually is too much sports. The people really just, they don't want all that. They just want the moments.
36:12Chris Stone:Well, I mean, Roger's spot on. And I think this has been happening in front of our eyes for quite a while now. But in the case of the Liga, what would be the best way to maximize the value? again to your point like there is a bunch of teams that i don't even know what they're called i would never be interested in watching a game between those two somehow the premier league has done a great job of building up those those second tier 13 teams so there's still an interest in following them um for some fans um but if you splice and dice the league up properly you basically sell el classico stand alone to someone you would get a huge check but the problem is that no one else would get any visibility uh and that and that's why having centralized set of rights is great because it keeps everything balanced, but is it maximizing the value of each and every game they have available to them?
36:57Chris Stone:Probably not. If they could sell our Classico alone to Netflix or one of the major platforms, they would probably be worth a tidy, tidy sum and they'd be willing to pay for it because it is such a big moment in European football. But all the others would cry foul because particularly if the money wasn't getting distributed equally, but also because they will be sitting back with no visibility of their games because there's not that global interest in those second and third tier teams. So a really tricky predicament, not just for La Liga, obviously, but like for, you know, Bundesliga is facing some challenges with obviously you have Bayern being so dominant for so long.
37:37Chris Stone:It takes away that competitive edge that makes it appealing to watch more matches. The French League's obviously been in trouble and we've seen what sort of moves they've had to make in the UK to try and get visibility. They can't even get a low-tier broadcast deal with your Sky Sports of the world. I mean, that's got to say something.
37:55Nick Meacham:Yeah, I think that was part of Roger's comment. He literally said, if I'm a broadcaster and I have one or the other or both, Premier League and Champions League, I actually don't have to pay for anything else. And that in itself is probably a little bit problematic if broadcasters view it as, I just don't even need you.
38:14Chris Stone:Yeah, I think we live in this on-demand world as well, right? We're having just being, by building legacy programming models on the fact of just having something on is needed on your linear networks. But on streaming, it's just not as important. People will just go to, you're just a tile on a screen these days. They'll just go to something else to watch if there's nothing else they really want to watch rather than, you know, like staying on and watching a third tier La Liga match after a Premier League match. I just don't think it has the same pull that it used to.
38:44Nick Meacham:Well, sidebar, I didn't prep you for this one. Did you follow the story about the Barcelona game that they're supposed to play in Miami that then got canceled because of the fans?
38:53Chris Stone:I haven't read the story. I saw the headline. I've not read the story. What was the, is it basically the Barca fans themselves kicking up a stink?
39:01Nick Meacham:I think it was legal wide. And I think one of the issues that really kicked it off is the players started protesting. It's like in the game, it was something like the players took a knee for like 15 seconds during the actual game to protest it. So it wasn't even just like obviously strong fans, but even the players were. But again, it goes to this idea of La Liga, probably it's an NFL model, right? Like the NFL wants to grow globally. So like they're playing in Mexico, they're playing in Spain, they're playing in Germany, they're playing in the UK, they're going to go play in Australia. But La Liga, like they can't even get one game out of, you know, their 38 game schedule.
39:34Nick Meacham:I don't know exactly how many they play compared to the Premier League to go play abroad, just in an effort and an attempt to try and, you know, build some revenue. And I get it, right? Like, I understand what fans are, but it just, it goes this whole thing, like, they can't, I don't want to say get out of their own way because, like, obviously you have to respect the fans and the players, but at the same time, like, it's hard to grow if, like, you can't even do that.
39:58Chris Stone:Well, it's a challenge for a few reasons, but also I think it's important to note that in Latin America, La Liga is still quite strong as that second tier thing. like in that market, it probably usurps Premier League in a lot of markets. I'm not sure which ones they do and don't. And so obviously there's a huge Latin American influence in Miami and across the US really. You've got to remember the league is a very, very nice looking deal with ESPN that is worth I think like a billion or two. I'd be frightened about what that's worth in the next renewal period because if they can't get games happening there to build more fandom and interest and prove to ESPN and other broadcasters in the US that, hey, we have an audience here that wants to watch us play more.
40:45Chris Stone:That, again, is going to make it really difficult for them to get that renewal done to the level that they need. I mean, building that balance between fans that you were talking about is the biggest challenge footballers facing now because they have, what would you call themselves, like, fallen in bed with investment and taking extra equity and cash and all this stuff into it, putting huge pressure on the finances they have to they're required they're mandated by their ownership groups and everyone to draw grow more revenue revenue revenue across the league this this is what happens as a result of that you start like what you got like i don't know there's some sort of metaphor i could probably come up with like ringing something too long before all the waters dried up i think this is kind of inevitable state of it and like i use the example all the time like the man united example with fans where they got so sick of the existing ownership because they were layering the club with debt and basically doing it for their own devices to basically secure income themselves.
41:44Chris Stone:That was the narrative. That's not going to go down with fans. And this kind of has the same feeling of it. The fans just don't like to be taking for a ride ultimately.
41:54Nick Meacham:Well, again, another story, Nick. I don't know if you saw it. Did you see Real Madrid is trying to sue FIFA? Sorry, not FIFA, UEFA for$4 billion?
42:02Chris Stone:Just$4 billion. I did see the headline. I hadn't read that article. But I mean, it shows how messy the state of football is. And just a final point back to going full circle back to this La Liga challenge is that is why this whole European Super League thing came up. Like if they want to knock Premier League off their perch, because let's face it, Premier League is number one by a long, long, long way now in terms of interest, even across Europe. the only way they're going to knock them off their perch is for something completely out of the box. But there's no way that it's going to work because of all the financial dependencies on the current model.
42:45Chris Stone:So that's why the European Super League popped up. That's why we're going to have more pain and more blood spilled before we get anywhere reasonable.
42:52Nick Meacham:Let's just make a Brexit joke, Nick, because we can. You can sell the European Super League and you just don't include the English teams, right?
43:00Chris Stone:Well, that's what I'm actually thinking they should seriously do, though. I seriously think they should double down on that and just ignore and try and be a rival with it. I think that would actually get some serious viewership.
43:12Nick Meacham:Here you go.
43:13Chris Stone:Yeah.
43:13Nick Meacham:It could become a Ryder Cup style where you have the English teams then play those European teams in the European Super League and like, here we go, Nick, someone hire us.
43:24Chris Stone:They've just got to get a few billion from somewhere to get started to pay all these extra fees. It's easy.
43:29Nick Meacham:We'll just call someone. I'm sure we've got a few investors listening to this.
43:31Chris Stone:Yeah, I'm sure we've got some investors listening to this guy. Genius, guys. I'm on the case. Give me a few weeks.
43:37Nick Meacham:Can't wait. Well, everyone, I do appreciate you tuning in for another episode of Streamtime Sports. It's been a pleasure, Nick. For those that don't know, this won't be the last time you hear my voice this year, the magic of Hollywood, but I'm going on paternity for the next two months. So this is the last episode, Nick, you and I are going to do for a while, but we still have plenty of content. You and I have already built up a bank of stuff. We'll have content from the Media Summit in Madrid as well. But yeah, this is my last time signing off for a little bit, Nick.
44:02Chris Stone:It is indeed. Now, I do think we might have, do we have maybe not an episode that pops up? But yeah, your voice will pop up on a few episodes randomly over the next couple of months. Yeah, yeah. And I will be doing a few solo, well, not solo, actually. We'll be listening to monologues of Nick Meacham for an hour. That would be frightening. And I'd be worried for you all if I decided to do that sort of initiative. but yeah look it's I've always enjoyed doing this with you Chris I'm looking forward to picking up the mic again with you soon once you get to the next couple of months but all the best for that period of time and I look forward to hearing how it's all gone and hopefully you've got some sleep through it all and yeah we'll talk we'll talk afterwards
44:43Nick Meacham:absolutely I'll try my best but yeah one of those episodes Nick is our 200th episode so that's right you'll get to hear lots of feedback you know we won't go into it in this one enjoy that one but yes there'll be lots of looking back on some of the stuff that we have done, Nick. And then, you know, 2026, we've already got plans for new and big things, right?
44:59Chris Stone:We do. We are going to change things up and add some extra layers and dimensions to the show. So stay tuned for that. I have to just say that the 200th episode we have recorded, we have lost track of how many episodes we've done because we can't find a single source of truth. So we're not sure if we actually recorded the 200th ages ago, but ignore that and just think when you do hear the 200th episode drop, that that is the, that is the, That is definitely possibly maybe the 200th episode that we've recorded. But a little look and reflection on where we are as an industry and what we've seen over the last couple of years.
45:32Chris Stone:It's a fun listen.
45:34Nick Meacham:Awesome. Thank you, everybody.
45:35Chris Stone:Thanks, everyone.
From the publisher
DAZN’s move to absorb FIFA+, Apple’s $750 million bid for Formula 1, and LaLiga’s struggle to stay relevant — this episode unpacks the business stories behind the biggest headlines.
Co-hosts SportsPro's CEO Nick Meacham, and Community Lead Chris Stone dissect what these deals reveal about the global sports rights landscape, evolving streaming strategies, and the growing “squeezed middle” of leagues caught between the giants.
Key points:
- Was FIFA’s deal with DAZN driven by strategy or financial pressure?
- How much influence does Saudi Arabia’s SURJ investment have on DAZN?
- Can Formula 1 continue to grow without ESPN’s editorial reach?
- Why is Apple’s investment a smart long-term play?
- What do LaLiga President Javier Tebas’s comments about pan-European deals reveal about the state of media rights in Europe?
- Are we entering an era where only the biggest leagues can survive?