In short
Stuff You Should Know: Contortionism - Bend It Like Gumby
Episode Overview In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, hosts Josh and Chuck delve into the fascinating world of contortionism. They explore its historical roots, cultural significance, and the physical aspects of the practice, as well as some of the medical implications associated with extreme flexibility.
Key Concepts and Discussions
Definition of Contortionism
- What is Contortionism?
The act of bending the body into extraordinary shapes and positions, often associated with performance art.
Historical Context
- Origins of Contortionism
- Evidence of contortionism dates back to ancient civilizations, including:
- Syria (2300 BCE): Early depictions of contortionists found on artifacts.
- Ancient Egypt (1200 BCE): Pottery fragments showing dancers in contorted poses.
- Greece (500 BCE): Contortionists became known performers at public festivals.
- China (221 BCE - 220 CE): Independent development or influence from other cultures.
Cultural Significance
- Mongolia as the Epicenter
- Mongolia has been a longstanding hub for contortionism, influenced by Buddhist practices and folk dances.
- The Mongolian state circus, particularly in the Soviet era, helped popularize and spread the tradition globally.
Types of Contortionism
- Training and Techniques
- Contortionism can be trained, with typical exercises focusing on strength and flexibility.
- Common forms include:
- Backbending: Basic foundational skill.
- Human Pretzel: Complex twisting and contorting.
- Chest Stand: A position where the body is balanced on the chest with legs extended overhead.
Physical and Medical Aspects
- Hypermobility
- Hypermobility is often misrepresented as being "double-jointed" and is assessed using the Baton scale.
- Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS): A genetic disorder that makes connective tissue more flexible, common among some contortionists.
- Marfan Syndrome: Another genetic condition associated with extreme flexibility.
Training for Contortionism
- Starting Young
- Most contortionists begin training as children due to their natural flexibility.
- Rigorous training includes daily stretching, strength training, and proper hydration.
The Dark Side of Contortionism
- Health Risks
- Contortionists may face unique health challenges due to their hypermobility, including joint instability and risk of injury.
- Misconceptions about the health of contortionists, including an old wives’ tale suggesting they die young, are discussed.
Conclusion and Personal Insights
- Performance and Artistry
- The hosts emphasize that contortionism is not just about physical ability but also about artistry and performance.
- They express admiration for contortionists who combine flexibility with dance and other forms of expression.
Key Takeaways
- Contortionism is both an ancient practice and an art form that requires dedication, training, and physical resilience.
- Mongolia remains a pivotal center for contortionism, supported by a rich cultural and historical background.
- Hypermobility, while beneficial for contortionists, can be linked to various medical conditions that require careful management.
- Contortionism thrives in performance contexts, illustrating the blend of physical talent with artistic expression.
Listener Engagement
- If you’re interested in exploring contortionism, consider watching live performances or videos to appreciate the complexity and skill involved.
Closing Thoughts The episode provides a comprehensive overview of the art of contortionism, blending historical context, cultural significance, and physical realities into an enlightening discussion that reveals much about this intriguing discipline.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Contortionism
1:54 to 3:42
Explore what contortionism is and how it can be trained.
“About explaining what a socket and electrical plug does?”
Historical Roots of Contortionism
3:42 to 5:50
Learn about the ancient origins of contortionism across cultures.
“And it's also something that's been around a long, long time, right?”
Contortionism's Evolution in India and Beyond
5:50 to 7:48
Discover how contortionism relates to yoga and spirituality in India.
“And this is one of those cases where we don't know if it if people in China and this was like 221 BCE to 220 CE.”
Contortionism in England and the Circus
7:48 to 12:30
Delve into the rise of contortionism in 17th and 18th century England.
“So that's not what we were talking about.”
The Modern Context of Contortionism
12:30 to 14:03
Examine how contortionism has changed and its representation today.
“like the shape of her arms because there were so many bees, that kind of thing, not like two or three bees on each arm.”
Early Contortionists: Enna Bertholdi
14:03 to 15:11
Learn about the history of notable early contortionist Enna Bertholdi and her impact.
The Epicenter of Contortionism: Mongolia
15:14 to 18:26
Explore why Mongolia is considered the center of contortionism and its cultural significance.
“So, you want to take a little bit of a break and come back and talk about the epicenter, ground zero, of contortionism?”
Evolution and Popularity of Mongolian Contortion
18:27 to 22:11
Discover how Mongolian contortionism gained worldwide fame through cultural and governmental support.
“It has long been that sort of epicenter.”
Challenges Facing Mongolian Contortionism
22:12 to 24:56
Understand the current challenges and the quest for UNESCO heritage status for Mongolian contortionism.
“The first one and the first sort of, you know, superstar of that circus was a contortionist named Tsendayush.”
Contortion Techniques and Performance
24:57 to 28:00
Learn about different contortion techniques and the artistry involved in performances.
“Well, just take it one step further, UNESCO.”
Show all 19 chapters
The Thrills and Challenges of Contortionism
28:00 to 29:00
Discover the breathtaking performances of contortionists and the artistry involved.
“It's a very thrilling way, but at the same time, I'm like, There's some part of my lizard brain that like, that ain't right.”
Understanding Contortion Techniques
29:00 to 33:15
Learn about various contortion techniques and the skills required to execute them.
“That's kind of what makes it like a very ballet-like performance, you know?”
The Fascination with Vertebral Flexibility
33:15 to 33:55
Explore how individual vertebrae can move independently in extreme flexibility.
“And it's rotating to a degree that the average person can't do, obviously.”
The Dark Side of Contortionism
36:59 to 39:44
Unpack the health issues and syndromes that can affect contortionists.
“And that is to say there are some syndromes and some disorders that could lend itself to this.”
Genetics and Flexibility Disorders
39:44 to 42:00
Understand how genetics plays a role in flexibility and the conditions associated.
“So there's a whole bunch of different ways that this can affect you.”
Understanding Contortionism: Health Implications
42:00 to 43:35
Learn about the health benefits and risks associated with contortionism.
“And like you said, you do have advantages to this.”
Training for Contortion: Stretching Techniques
43:35 to 46:25
Discover the rigorous training and stretching methods used in contortion.
“So if you wanted to get into contorting, Chuck, where would you start?”
The Joy of Live Contortion Performances
46:25 to 46:55
Explore the unique experience of watching contortionists live versus online.
“Um, when I was looking up a lot of this stuff for contortionism, I ran into tons of videos that were just like for that, like just to become a more flexible, average person.”
Listener Mail: Feedback and Compliments
46:55 to 49:58
Listen to a collection of listener feedback celebrating the podcast.
“But maybe I'll read like six of them in true stuff you should know style.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Josh Clark:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
0:04Chuck Bryant:In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal. T-Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network, according to the experts at Ookla Speed Test. And they use that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage. That's your business supercharged. Learn more at supermobile.com.
0:30Josh Clark:Seamless coverage with compatible device in most outdoor areas in the U.S. where you can see the sky. Best network based on analysis by Ookla of Speedtest Intelligence, data 2H 2025. Hey, everybody. It's time to take care of you. And who better to help you do that than the top voices in well-being on Audible? You can hear the latest from best-selling authors Brene Brown or Jay Shetty or Chef Jamie Oliver or finance expert Rachel Rogers. Plus, find all the best parenting guides like Raising Good Humans. When you listen, you can imagine more for your mind and body. And right now, you can kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook for free when you sign up for a 30-day trial at audible.com slash S-Y-S-K.
1:08Josh Clark:Membership is$14.95 a month after 30 days. Cancel any time. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N-A, member FDIC. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
1:48Chuck Bryant:Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here to do, which makes this dizzle.
1:54Josh Clark:stuff you should know that's right boy livia had a good title on this one did you like it go ahead uh well this is about contortionists and sure livia titled uh what she sent us bend it like gumby that's right i think it's good it is good um yeah livia always comes up with the best titles yeah and now we know that she listens to some of these because she heard you uh take a dig at her.
2:23Chuck Bryant:About explaining what a socket and electrical plug does? Yeah. Yeah. She's a good sport, though. Let's see. What else, Chuck? I guess you already spoiled what this episode's about. It's about contortionism, which I guess we were going to have to get into eventually.
2:41Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, obviously, we're talking about bending your body. Right. In ways that are, Yeah, like Gumby, bending your bodies in ways that are extraordinary. And as we have learned, it's something that maybe you're kind of born with and definitely something you can work toward and maybe a bit of both.
2:59Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I always assumed it was just a born thing and that like one out of every 15 million people were born as a contortionist, essentially. And I figured, yes, of course, they have to train and everything and, you know, choreograph. There's a lot of types of contortionism that are essentially contortionist ballets, especially like the ones you see at Cirque du Soleil, which if you say that funny, it's a hilarious thing to say. It's a good joke. But I guess I just didn't realize that it is something you can like you or I could go train to be a contortionist. We would fail utterly, but we could at least go train in our 50s and still do a lot better than we can right now.
3:41Chuck Bryant:Because it is something you can adapt your body to.
3:44Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. And it's also something that's been around a long, long time, right?
3:50Chuck Bryant:Yeah, it has. One more thing. It will help you a lot while we're going through some of this stuff to just, if you can, look it up, watch videos. But even, like, just photos sometimes can kind of get the point across. It's just one of those things while we were studying this, I was like, this is going to kind of be tough to describe in some cases. but we'll do our best.
4:12Josh Clark:Yeah, well, I don't think it's going to be that hard to follow. People know what we're talking about.
4:16Chuck Bryant:Okay, so we are talking about contortionism, and you did say that it is very, very old. The oldest thing we've found that is pretty much a certainty that they're depicting a contortionist was an image that was found in Syria, an old, old Polaroid from 2300 BCE. And there's some contortionists, and they're holding swords. And the best that historians can come up with is that it's possible that, so there's some Hittite writings that describe a performance where contortionists basically jump through hoops of swords as basically a, well, performance essentially, that basically say, can you do this?
4:54Chuck Bryant:No, you can't.
4:55Josh Clark:Yeah, and you know, that followed, of course, we have to talk about all the usual suspects, of course. China will come in, don't worry. But ancient Egypt, they found pottery fragments that date to 1200 BCE that definitely show women dancing in backbends, like, you know, contorting themselves. Sure. And the Greeks also did this later on as well, right?
5:18Chuck Bryant:Yeah, the Greeks is where we finally start to get to unambiguous descriptions of contortionism. I think as far back as, well, about 2 ,500 years ago, something like that, contortionists had become like an actual thing. Like they were part of troops or performers that performed in Greece. Like if you went to, say, a public festival, let's say Dionysus was being celebrated that day. There's a chance that you might find somebody doing a contortionist act as just kind of part of the festivities.
5:50Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I mentioned China. And this is one of those cases where we don't know if it if people in China and this was like 221 BCE to 220 CE. if they were influenced by people from other parts of the world or not, or whether it developed independently. People over there realized that they were bendy. But when they look at some of the clothes that contortionists were wearing in China, it seems like it maybe was influenced by people in Europe, but also could have been maybe that's just the garb. They were all wearing Benetton. Yeah, exactly. Stretchy stuff.
6:26Chuck Bryant:So, yeah, that's very interesting, because usually something came out of China and it influenced Europe rather than going the other way around, especially that far back. So, yeah, as a person of European ancestry, I'm quite proud of that.
6:43Josh Clark:Of course, you know, you would think India is probably a pretty obvious spot for contortionism. And you would be right because there are sculptures in temples from India. These date to 10th century CE that also show women in contorted poses. This time it got a little sexier, though.
7:03Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I think a lot of times you think about something like the Kama Sutra, and there are definitely contortionist poses in the Kama Sutra. But there's the, to just think of it as like, oh, this is just, you know, like you said, just sexy. There's a spiritual aspect to that whole thing, too. It's like a tantric yoga practice. But it is also sexy, just admittedly. But there's this that made me kind of wonder, Chuck, like did like yoga and Buddhism and Hinduism and the incorporation of all these physical movements that include contortionism, did that kind of come out of this contortionist, I guess, heritage or whatever that dates back to at least the Hittites?
7:47Chuck Bryant:Or was what the Hittites were doing essentially the foundation for what would later become, you know, Buddhism and Hinduism?
7:55Josh Clark:Yeah. And to be clear, when we say sexy, we mean their depictions of actual intercourse, because one of the things that's really annoying to me about all of this, and Livia picks this up sort of at the end of the article, but I'm going to go ahead and address it now, is that if you get, you know, 100 people in a room and there's a contortionist, there's probably going to be some dimwitted man making some stupid sexual reference about somebody being bendy, about a woman being bendy. And that's just dumb. So that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about, like, you know, actual pictures of sexual positions in this case.
8:32Chuck Bryant:I think that was great because you could interpret it a way where we sounded like dirty old men, essentially.
8:38Josh Clark:Yeah.
8:39Chuck Bryant:Yeah, the guys who, like, kind of elbow one another, like, huh, huh, check it out, huh?
8:43Josh Clark:I mean, come on.
8:45Chuck Bryant:So some people have a further way to come than other people, you know?
8:50Josh Clark:Yeah, that's true.
8:51Chuck Bryant:So back to India itself, there's a clear comparison between contortionism and yoga today. And actually, it's kind of neat because if you go online and you look up contortionism or training or something like that, it's essentially people who are into yoga and they're trying to figure out how to go even further. So they're following ancient practices that have been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years that are contortionist by nature.
9:22Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. England might not be the most obvious place to think about men doing contortionist poses. But that's exactly what happened in 17th and 18th century there in the form of posture masters. Posture masters is what they were called.
9:39Chuck Bryant:It sounds like a mattress.
9:40Josh Clark:A posture master. But that's what was going on. It's a little odd to think about now, but it might be like an actual performance. Maybe sometimes it was something that they would do on the street to raise money, like busking, or maybe to try instead of like holding a sign outside your business, there might be a male posture master sitting outside your tavern to try and get people in there. But it was kind of a big deal, and they kind of became sort of famous in England at the time. Yeah.
10:10Chuck Bryant:I mean, this was before TV, radio, internet, even newspapers in a lot of cases. And you could, as a male contortionist in particular, because it was a male-dominated field at this time, at least in Europe, and it seems like basically throughout the world, that you could become distinctly famous, like a guy named Joseph Clark, who apparently in the late 17th century was a very, very famous contortionist in England, so much so that his last name was shorthand for contortion in England and then eventually would morph into shorthand for giving somebody something that they want. That's right.
10:51Josh Clark:The circus is obviously going to come into play. And that is when the circus came into play. And that was, and we, you know, we've done quite a few episodes on the circus back in the day. But as a reminder, this was late 18th century when Philip and Patty Astley, they had a you know a lot of the early circuses were like horse riding tricks like equestrian stuff yeah and there's definitely formed out of that out of their astley's riding school in london and uh you know once the circus started spreading around it came to the united states and within that circus world contortionists started kind of performing on the regular uh but you know it started to get and which is like it is today it gets kind of mixed in with other sort of acrobatics.
11:35Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and just stepping back a couple of paces, once it reached Europe and England in the 17th and 18th century, there was no spirituality associated with it once it reached Western Europe. It was performance from that point on, you know. And yeah, once it hit the circus, it's really started to morph into what we understand as contortionism today. there was one trick I have to say that Patty Astley did on her horse in the very beginning of circuses she would ride her horse really fast and her arms would be covered in bees yeah that's a wild ride for everybody involved
12:15Josh Clark:yeah but you know maybe she was a beekeeper
12:19Chuck Bryant:it doesn't matter what she was doing Chuck she was riding full throttle on a horse with bees all over her arms. I mean, I'm assuming like they changed like the shape of her arms because there were so many bees, that kind of thing, not like two or three bees on each arm.
12:35Josh Clark:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That wouldn't have much impact, I don't think.
12:38Chuck Bryant:That impressed me quite a bit.
Read the full transcript
12:40Josh Clark:It's a pretty good trick. So the actual word contortionist, that came around in 1860 before then. You know, it was just called other stuff depending on what culture it was coming from. But if you were in the U.S. or if you were in England performing as a contortionist, you probably said that you were either Chinese or Turkish or German or French, or maybe you were. You might have just claimed to be one of those things because it had such a rich tradition in being bendy like that. But at this point, it started to be mainly women who were hired by male circus owners and a lot of times performing exclusively for male audiences.
13:21Chuck Bryant:Right. Right. And so, yeah, it kind of evolves even further. And luckily that went from like the point of a contortionist act eventually evolving to, you know, a couple of dudes in the audience like elbowing one another where most people are like getting what the point is. But that said, there are contortionist acts today that are very much geared toward the sexual nature of the whole thing. And, you know, they're performed by women who are doing that on purpose. So, you know, whatever, more power to them. there is like a thread of that like you can't just be like nope that doesn't exist stop stop saying that but the point of most contortionist um performances it seems like is not that that's
14:09Josh Clark:a very niche thing these days yeah for sure uh there was one you know kind of notable early contortionist we got to mention here name uh well her real name was beatrice mary claxton but beatrice claxton isn't the best name for a contortionist so she went by enna bertholdi which is much more of a sort of a circusy name and starting at like age eight years old she was touring around and as we'll see you know contortionism is is mainly a sport of the young you can age out of it like ballet in a lot of cases but she was a kid doing it and she performed all over great britain and then eventually traveled to the u.s in 1891 and one of the reasons we mentioned hers because she was very famously one of the early people that thomas Edison filmed with his kinetoscope.
14:59Chuck Bryant:Yeah. Which is pretty cool. I mean, you have to be pretty famous in and of yourself to do that, but to be memorialized in one of the earliest film strips is definitely going to help your fame later on in history as a contortionist, I would think.
15:14Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure.
15:15Chuck Bryant:So, you want to take a little bit of a break and come back and talk about the epicenter, ground zero, of contortionism?
15:23Josh Clark:Where could that be?
15:37Josh Clark:What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
15:57Chuck Bryant:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology.
16:09Josh Clark:Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, One mysterious Black club owner had his own rules.
16:51Chuck Bryant:We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world.
16:56Josh Clark:Inside Charlie's place, Black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.
17:04Chuck Bryant:You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush you.
17:21Josh Clark:From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Visit Myrtle Beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
17:40Come check this.
17:41Josh Clark:iHeart and TikTok have come together to create something new. I love it. where the world of TikTok meets your playlist. Three words that will change your life. iHeart TikTok Radio, the biggest hits across iHeart Radio. What's trending for you on TikTok? Tell me a sound that's better than this. iHeart TikTok Radio. Plus TikTok's most influential creators all in one place. Search for iHeart TikTok Radio, make it a preset, and stay connected all day.
18:20Chuck Bryant:Okay, so we're back, and I talked about the epicenter of contortions, and I'm just going to reveal it now. It's Mongolia, everybody.
18:28Josh Clark:That's right. It has long been that sort of epicenter. It still is that epicenter. And we're going to tell you why, because one of the reasons it started as a big deal there is, or at least we think that it, you know, had to do with sort of meditative practices and also like a dance, a Buddhist dance known as the psalm, which is, you know, also, you know, it's very religious, obviously tied to Buddhism, but has to do with, you know, training your body and mind to work together to do incredible things.
19:01Chuck Bryant:I also saw that it has secret meanings that you have to be a very high, highly advanced Buddhist monk to you basically be led in on, which is pretty neat. Oh, cool. There's also a folk dance in Mongolia that's indigenous to Mongolia from what I understand, B-L-G, B-I-Y-E-L-G-E-E. And as far as folk dances go, I'm not usually a huge fan of folk dance. Like I wouldn't go to a community center to see a folk dance performance. But this is a pretty cool folk dance to just check out on video, in part because of the movements, which include contortionism, including full backbends to where the dancer's back is like flat on the ground while they're on their knees.
19:45Chuck Bryant:But also just the incredibly colorful costumes that they wear, too. It's really neat.
19:50Josh Clark:What is a folk dance performance? Like, what are you avoiding? I don't even know what that means.
19:55Chuck Bryant:It's kind of like when people from different cultures perform traditional dances. Oh, okay. That's a folk dance. I got you. Okay. I mean, what do you think? Like square dancing? I guess that's probably a type of folk dance. Yeah. No, it's just, you know, any kind of cultural dancing. For some reason, it's never floated my boat. But I'm not yucking anyone's yum because I couldn't do a single step of any folk dance. And I'm usually impressed with anybody who can dance in any way, shape or form.
20:29Josh Clark:Yeah, me too. So 12th century is when it starts to become a really sort of mainstream thing in Mongolian culture, basically, at festivals, court appearances, obviously. And then 17th century is when there was a Buddhist leader named Andor Ghegin Zanzibar who inspired these contortionists with these, I guess they were, was it like just art sculptures basically? The people like in all sorts of kind of contorted positions? Yeah.
21:03Chuck Bryant:He was like, do that position. I dare you. He would make sculptures of them. Yeah. I thought that was. Yeah. Yeah, and the guy was so, I guess, popular that, like, he actually advanced contortionism by pushing them to their limits, I guess. Wow. As a sculptor.
21:20Josh Clark:Yeah, I mean, you can bend clay in ways you can't bend a body.
21:23Chuck Bryant:That's right. That's why you can bend it like Gumby, man.
21:26Josh Clark:That's right.
21:28Chuck Bryant:So, Mongolia is, and I thought this was pretty interesting, too. There's, like, contortionism evolving in different places around the world, you know, kind of simultaneously. But Mongolia basically took the mantle. And one of the reasons why is because they became a Soviet state in the 40s. And as part of the USSR, the government bankrolled the Mongolian State Circus, which became world-renowned. It traveled the world. That's one of the ways it became world-renowned. But also because they were really, really good. And one of the centerpieces of the Mongolian State Circus was contortionism. And from that, it grew in popularity very, very quickly because there was a lot of funding for it.
22:09Chuck Bryant:There's a lot of publicity for it. But that created a mushrooming of contortionist schools in Mongolia, some of which are still around today.
22:19Josh Clark:Oh, yeah, for sure. The first one and the first sort of, you know, superstar of that circus was a contortionist named Tsendayush. And that was the first school. but like you said, there's a lot of them still there. And it's not just like, hey, if you're from Mongolia and you're a young girl and your parents think you're pretty flexible early on, they may send you to this. That certainly happens. But people from all over the world, like gymnasts, will go and train. Like anyone who wants to sort of increase your flexibility in an extreme way, there's no better place in the world to go than a contortionist school in Mongolia.
23:00Chuck Bryant:No, they know what they're doing, in other words.
23:03Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. Their circus isn't nearly as big ever since they peeled away from the Soviet Union in the early 90s. But it's still like a big kind of rich tradition in that country.
23:14Chuck Bryant:Oh, yeah, big time. Right now, the biggest school, I think the oldest school, is owned by a former sumo wrestler. And he is Mongolia's most famous, most revered sumo wrestler. He got out of the sumo game and bought the school for contortionism. The thing is, it's kind of in this decline, so much so that Mongolia has been trying to get UNESCO heritage protection for Mongolian contortionism. Because it's just not quite as widespread, even though there's more schools than ever. It's just become much more diluted. I think there's a lower barrier to entry for being like, say, a teacher or a school owner or something like that.
23:58Chuck Bryant:And then simultaneous to that, a lot of Mongolian contortionist trainers are going abroad. And so they're taking it with them. But at the same time, someone in, say, like England, who sees an English contortionist, they don't or they're not regarding the idea that that person was trained by a Mongolian contortionist teacher. They are looking at the English contortionist. And so in that way, it's becoming less and less identified with Mongolia.
24:24Josh Clark:Yeah, and it's kind of I was kind of disappointed that UNESCO turned them down. They tried to get, you know, it added as a list of intangible heritage, which it seems very clear that that's the case. But they rejected the proposal. This was in 2011. They said that advocates didn't make a strong enough case for its significance in Mongolian culture and society, which just I don't know. I'm not on that board, obviously, but it seems pretty obvious to me as an outsider that it's like super tied to Mongolian culture.
24:55Chuck Bryant:Sure. Well, you will be heartened that the Mongolian folk dance BLG is protected under UNESCO heritage.
25:03Josh Clark:Well, just take it one step further, UNESCO. That's right.
25:06Chuck Bryant:One. Because also, what's the big deal? I don't know. I was trying to think about that. I'm sure that they have a kind of mentality that's like, we don't want to open the floodgates or else, you know. But, I mean, there's plenty of stuff that I'm sure deserves protecting that they're turning down. And you know what? I'd be interested to know about that. I'm going to look into that, and we'll do a short step on all the stuff UNESCO's turned down for heritage protection.
25:30Josh Clark:Well, if you want to learn about the mechanics, now is your time to listen closely. This is the point where you were probably talking about maybe looking up pictures and stuff. But, you know, I think a lot of people have seen a lot of this stuff. If you've ever watched When We Were Kids, That's Incredible, or America's Got Talent These Days, they'll have acts like this, or certainly if you've ever been to Cirque du Soleil or something. But backbending, there's like kind of six main sort of overall things you can learn, and then within that, you can do all sorts of stuff to incorporate little side tricks and then mix these together for performative purposes.
26:11Josh Clark:But backbending, that's sort of the classic place that you start, the classic backbend. Yeah.
26:18Chuck Bryant:One of the things is the chest stand. And essentially, it's where you're on your chest. So I'm going to, like everybody get in this position. I'm going to walk you through it. You're on your chest, flat. I guess that's prone on the floor. And you bend yourself at the waist. And you bring your hips back, back, back, back, back. and then you have your feet on either side of your head. You can do this, everybody. Just hang in there. And then your feet are flat on the floor on either side of your head. Remember, you're still on your chest, but now your legs are completely over you and your feet are on either side of your head flat on the floor.
26:56Chuck Bryant:That's the chest stand. That's the most basic one. Anybody can basically do that just jumping into it.
27:03Josh Clark:Well, my only note with that description is when you said your waist went back, back, back. Technically, I think your waist is going forward, forward, forward. So that might have confused people.
27:13Chuck Bryant:Okay, yeah. I think maybe that's why I was like, this is hard to describe because I knew I was going to screw it up just royally.
27:22Josh Clark:Well, you've also got the front bend. If someone has got a little humor to their performance, you're probably going to use a front bend because that is when you're sort of doing the opposite in which you fold your head and chest all the way between your legs to where you're sort of looking at your own butt. So obviously, insert joke right there.
27:41Chuck Bryant:Yes. These are the ones that really get to me. There's some sort of preternatural zap that contortionist poses can do to you, or to me at least. And the human pretzel one or the human knot, those are the ones that they just zap me. It's a very thrilling way, but at the same time, I'm like, There's some part of my lizard brain that like, that ain't right. Body's not supposed to do that.
28:11Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, we go to Cirque du Soleil every year when it comes to Atlanta in the fall. That's kind of one of our little family traditions. And there's always some kind of contortionist, I feel like. But yeah, this last one, and I can't remember which one it was called, but they had a guy and it was he was the best I had ever seen. It was, I wasn't quite sure what I was watching at certain points where you can't even tell which arm was which or, you know, it was definitely one of those brain breaking sort of performances. It was incredible.
28:44Chuck Bryant:Yeah, for sure. Those are, I think one of the other things too that I've noted, especially with Cirque du Soleil performances, is it's not just like a, hey, look, I'm in this pose and I'm holding this pose and now I'm just going to get into the next pose. Like the transition from one pose to another is incredibly important. That's kind of what makes it like a very ballet-like performance, you know? I think that's just, that makes the whole thing like even more amazing, but at the same time more, it zaps me less than just like a, here's a pose, check it out, let it really sink in what I'm doing right now.
29:17Chuck Bryant:Yeah. It's like, I like it when it's the way that you describe where you like can't even tell what's what.
29:24Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, I think definitely the next part, balancing, is when that comes into play. that's I think a lot of like the feats of strength combined with, you know, I said they kind of mix things up in circuses. And the feats of strength is definitely when balancing comes in because that's when you're contorted in a pose and maybe you're like lifting yourself off the ground in a little ball that you can't even figure out with just like your fingertips or something like that.
29:50Chuck Bryant:Yeah, very famous one of these is the Marinelli bend. And that is essentially kind of like, It's like a chest stand. It's very similar to a chest stand, except that rather than having your weight on your chest, you have all of the weight in your entire body on your teeth. And you're probably biting a pole. And that's what's holding you up while you're doing your chest stand in the middle of the air. It's quite impressive. And I looked it up. There is a Mongolian contortionist named Satsral Erdenabalig. and she holds the record for holding a Marinelli bend for 4 minutes and 17 seconds.
30:27Josh Clark:That's a long time.
30:29Chuck Bryant:With her teeth.
30:31Josh Clark:Yeah. Dislocation, that's another one that probably might trigger some folks. That is kind of one of those deals where it looks like you're popping your shoulder or your arm out of joint or something like that to achieve the sort of performative effect. the shoulder pass through was sort of a classic move. That's where you hold a stick with both hands and you move the stick all the way, you know, in front of your body and then over your head into your back, but you're not changing your grip. So your arms are twisting and contorting in ways that look like they've been dislocated.
31:07Chuck Bryant:Yeah. The splits too. I always think of the splits as kind of like a cheer. Yeah, it's classic. It's like a cheerleader thing or, you know, your friend in the neighborhood can do it. Have you ever done a split?
31:19Josh Clark:No, I'm not splitty. I mean, I used to be very flexible. Like I could put my ankle, like my foot behind my head. Wow. When I was young and stuff like that. When I was one. Come close now. And Ruby the other day was just laughing at me because I was actually fairly close, but I was never a splitter.
31:40Chuck Bryant:All right. Fair enough. I wasn't either. But one of the basic things that you have to learn is the splits, because so many of the other kind of movements and poses are based on being able to do a split. It's a basic one. But if you really want to be impressed, go look up over splits, which is doing a split. But say one foot is on a chair in front of you and the other foot is on a chair behind you and you're a foot or so off of the ground. almost making just the beginnings of a U with your legs.
32:13Josh Clark:Yeah, I like that standing split where you're on one leg and you have reached behind you and grabbed that foot and brought it all the way over. That's always, because that's also incorporates balance, obviously.
32:26Chuck Bryant:I don't remember who did that, but one of the, I think one of the American skaters in the Winter Olympics did that while they were doing like a spin. Oh, yeah. But it was like perfectly 90 degrees perpendicular to the ice. It was really amazing.
32:43Josh Clark:You got to or you'll get that half point deduction.
32:47Chuck Bryant:And then twisting too. This kind of twisting is not necessarily in and of itself a pose, although it would be impressive. But it's kind of like a fundamental part of a bunch of other poses, right? Or if you're twisting yourself around or if you're moving yourself so that you can't tell what arm is what, you're twisting to some degree. And what's really fascinating to me about this is that each individual vertebra is rotating. And it's rotating to a degree that the average person can't do, obviously. But just the idea of your spine, I would think of it as moving in one thing. But it's just like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
33:28Chuck Bryant:each vertebra is moving itself. I think that's an amazing skill. Just that. Like if somebody walked up to me and said, I can twist all of my individual vertebra, can you? I would say, I don't think I can.
33:42Josh Clark:Yeah. And I wouldn't know if I am.
33:44Chuck Bryant:Exactly. I know somebody's going to write in and be like, don't be stupid, Josh. Everyone's vertebra twists individually. I get that. I guess I'm trying to get across that I'm impressed by contortionists. Okay.
33:55Josh Clark:For sure. Should we take another break? I think we should. All right. We're going to come back and talk about sort of the dark side of this right after this.
34:16Josh Clark:What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
34:30Chuck Bryant:Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
34:33Josh Clark:I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
34:36Chuck Bryant:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology.
34:48Josh Clark:Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Come check this. iHeart and TikTok have come together to create something new. I love it. Where the world of TikTok meets your playlist. Three words that will change your life.
35:30Josh Clark:iHeart TikTok Radio. The biggest hits across iHeart Radio. What's trending for you on TikTok? Tell me a sound that's better than this. iHeart TikTok Radio. Plus TikTok's most influential creators all in one place. Search for iHeartTikTok Radio, make it a preset, and stay connected all day. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious Black club owner had his own rules.
36:00Chuck Bryant:We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world.
36:05Josh Clark:Inside Charlie's Place, Black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK?
36:14Chuck Bryant:Yeah. They would have dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.
36:30Josh Clark:From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Visit Myrtle Beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
36:59All right.
37:00Josh Clark:I promised talk of the dark side. And that is to say there are some syndromes and some disorders that could lend itself to this. So I guess that's the dark side. the first thing we should clear up is that double jointed is not a thing. I know that's something that everyone kind of learned on the playground, like, look, I'm double jointed. But what people are, people don't have extra joints. What people are really talking about there is what's called hypermobility.
37:29Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
37:30Josh Clark:And that is something that obviously, if you are hypermobile, then you have a pretty good leg up to being a contortionist. And they would diagnose that, or I guess rather rate your hypermobility on what's called the Baton scale.
37:45Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
37:46Josh Clark:And nine is the highest on that scale. And if you're a contortionist, you're probably a nine.
37:52Chuck Bryant:Yeah. But also, aren't you a jerk if you make a scale and you just leave it at nine rather than 10?
37:57Josh Clark:I just, I feel like there had to be a reason for that, but I didn't ask.
38:01Chuck Bryant:Well, you add a point for each thing that somebody can do. So it's things like, can you touch your thumb to your forearm? And I can do that very easily. I'm doing it right now over and over again. but you want to be able to do that with each hand. There's like, can you, does your knee go back a certain degree behind itself? There's just a bunch of different ones and you add one point for each limb that can do that. And I guess it just adds up to nine. He wasn't being a jerk. I was just kidding.
38:33Josh Clark:Yeah. So I mentioned early on that genetics could play a part. And that's certainly true. You know, if your parents were contortionists or your mom was a contortionist, you may be born more flexible. You may be born with hypermobility. But sometimes it does correlate, like I said, with the genetic conditions. The first one is EDS, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. There's really 13 of those syndromes. So it means that, you know, if you're a contortionist, you may have one of these. Not always, but it's possible.
39:07Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I think it's sometimes called Cirque du Soleil disease. And there are, like you said, 13 of them. Because the one thing they have in common is that they affect your connective tissue. So you can have one that makes you very hypermobile, very extendable, hyperextendable, because the connective tissue in your joints is not as, say, stiff as somebody else's. So you can go way beyond the normal range of motion. But then there's also other ones that keep you from being able to control your own breathing or your teeth fall out of your head because your gums are not connective enough to hold them in there.
39:44Chuck Bryant:So there's a whole bunch of different ways that this can affect you. It just happens that a couple of the forms of EDS or a couple of the symptoms of some types of EDS make you much more hypermobile and hyperextensive.
39:56Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. Uh, sometimes if you are hypermobile and you have the EDS and that's one of, I guess, sort of the pluses, um, it can have some harmful traits like, uh, although it can also help with skin, uh, hyper extensibility, like having really stretchy skin, uh, or maybe joint instability is obviously a bad one because that can lead to injury and dislocations and stuff like that. But, um, we should point out that there doesn't seem to be any like weird high rate of injury for people who are involved in contortionism. And definitely not, does it mean like you're going to die younger? That's sort of an old wives' tale that contortionists die young.
40:37Josh Clark:But that may have to do with the fact that it could go along with some of these syndromes.
40:43Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I also wonder if it has to do with just going out of the public eye at a very young age. Because in Mongolia, I think the average career of a contortionist goes from about age 6 to age 13. So I wonder if that just kind of helped develop that old wives tale over the years.
40:58Josh Clark:Oh, like people think they died and just aged out?
41:01Chuck Bryant:Exactly. Oh, interesting. One of the things that was always kind of obvious to me is that women are more flexible than men on the whole. There are actually distinct physiological reasons for this. One of which, I mean, body structure, obviously, but hormones apparently affect your connective tissue. And it's, I guess, strength or degree of flexibility. And so when women take progestin-only birth control pills, they're more hypermobile than when they aren't on birth control pills. Isn't that fascinating?
41:37Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, jumping back to the syndromes, the second one is something called Marfan syndrome, which I feel like we've talked about at some point. I know I've heard of it, but that's another genetic condition that makes that connective tissue like super flexible. right um in this case it's about uh sort of like uh eds it's about one in four thousand each of them are um and you know this one you can call shortness of breath uh heart palpitations eye pain sometimes yeah uh and you know those are the two main ones but outside of this there's an umbrella term called hypermobility spectrum disorder that kind of covers you know other things that lend itself to extreme flexibility.
42:22Chuck Bryant:Yes. And like you said, you do have advantages to this. So if you're a woman on a high level of hormones who has Marfan syndrome and maybe a hypermobility spectrum disorder, you are probably a, like what I thought all contortionists were, essentially a born contortionist. There's challenges for all the advantages that it offers. And then obviously the drawbacks in other ways that it affects your health. But as far as contortionism goes, it has just a suite of advantages for you. But there's also like drawbacks in that, like you will have to probably do more strength training than the average person, because again, your connective tissue is weaker than other people's, which makes you easier to flex or more flexible.
43:05Chuck Bryant:And then also you might be more prone to injury, like you were saying, because you can dislocate way easier than other people.
43:12Josh Clark:Yeah, but they've done studies, and they haven't found it's any different than any other sort of professional athleticism. They've even put people in the Wonder Machine and have them contort in an MRI and didn't see anything odd going on. So they basically said, it's all good. Keep doing what you're doing.
43:33Chuck Bryant:Nothing odd going on here.
43:35Josh Clark:Yeah.
43:36Chuck Bryant:So if you wanted to get into contorting, Chuck, where would you start? That's the question I pose to you now. Let's start stretching immediately. I think that's a good plan.
43:49Josh Clark:Yeah, but you should probably start as a small kid. Some people get into this as adults, but much, much, much more often, I would say 95 % of the time, you're starting out as a kid because you're flexible as a kid. You've got more collagen fibers going on. Your muscles and joints don't have as much calcium at that point. So kids are just bendy.
44:11Chuck Bryant:They are super bendy. You also want to do a lot of strength training too. And you're going to, like, if you want to be an actual professional contortionist, you're basically going to need to dedicate your life to it. You have to train every day for hours and hours a day. And that whole stretching thing is not just like what you do to warm up. It's actually part of your training is to stretch. Because there's a really interesting reflex called the myotatic reflex. Be myostatic. But essentially, when you flex a muscle or when you press on a muscle, the reflex is that your muscle automatically contracts.
44:50Chuck Bryant:It's how your body keeps you from falling down, essentially, is this automatic reflex. The problem is that keeps your muscles from expanding or stretching further. So if you just stretch like normal, like if you do a hamstring stretch, your muscles are no longer than they were before you did that hamstring stretch. It feels better and they're looser, but they're not actually longer, which is really important in contortionism. So they've figured out that there are certain ways that you can do stretching. They're called proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation stretches. And essentially, this is how you train your body to actually elongate the muscle fibers.
45:31Josh Clark:yeah and you are well on your way at that point uh you obviously got to be drinking plenty of water too because that's gonna keep that spinal support keep those discs nice and cushiony and that's just a good uh obviously when they tell you to drink water every day there's lots of reasons for that but that's one of them just as a regular old person walking around not yeah twisting themselves into shapes true that uh and you know they have found that it gets obviously it gets better with time. Like when you, when you start training, um, your muscles aren't going to change that much in the first few weeks.
46:04Josh Clark:Uh, but your neurons actually shift in their behavior and your pain tolerance is going to increase and your range of motion is going to extend. And again, this is just, you know, for contortionism, but flexibility and stretching is kind of one of the keys to aging, uh, well, you know, so this advice is for a lot of people.
46:24Chuck Bryant:Yeah. Um, when I was looking up a lot of this stuff for contortionism, I ran into tons of videos that were just like for that, like just to become a more flexible, average person. It is a super important ingredient. Yeah. Okay. So if you want to go see a contortionist, there are videos on the web, but it's much, much different to see it in person. So, you know, maybe like you said, make an annual pilgrimage to Cirque du Soleil like your family, Chuck. Yeah. It's worth it. I think it's fun. well since Chuck said he thinks it's fun everybody that means it's time for listener mail
47:01Josh Clark:guys I'm going to call this no corrections just compliments that was in the subject line so I'm always prone to read one of those it was a nudge listening to Jane Stanford episode was a nudge to finally write in and thank you guys for what you do and so what Sarah has done here was wrote a top sort of a stuff you should know top 10 which means it's four things long. Five things long. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten. No, there's ten. But maybe I'll read like six of them in true stuff you should know style. So here we go with number ten. Thank you for your friendly banter at the beginning of the episode.
47:37Josh Clark:Number nine, thank you for the witty episode names. Number eight, we always try to make the episode titles kind of fun. Most of the time. Yeah. Sometimes it's straightforward and you can't, you know, mock something like, oh, I don't know, anything serious or sad. number eight thank you for the movie book cocktail barbecue rice recipe recommendations that you share sometimes topic specific and sometimes not number seven thank you for your obvious desire to not show just kindness to different groups of people but or be politically correct but to actually be kind to people all right that's nice yeah number six thank you for your openness about your own lives pets and relationships which makes us feel like we can relate to you.
48:23That's a good one.
48:24Chuck Bryant:Yeah, for sure.
48:25Josh Clark:Number five, thank you for being surprisingly informative on unique topics, but also admitting that some of them are not as tantalizing. Parentheses, I'm looking at you, hard sciences, is what Sarah said.
48:36Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
48:36Josh Clark:And can we all admit that the true crime and holiday extravaganzas are the best? So Sarah's into those.
48:42Chuck Bryant:Okay.
48:43Josh Clark:Number four, thank you for coordinating the intro-outro jingle to the overall style of the episode. We need to thank one person and another whole set of people for that. Obviously, Jerry is the one who's picking those out. Sure. So she's doing the coordination, but Stuff You Should Know listeners are the people who perform in those to begin with
49:02Chuck Bryant:and record those. Yeah, yeah. And Dave and Ben pick them out too. Jerry's the all-time goat.
49:07Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure.
49:08Chuck Bryant:She's the all-time greatest of all time.
49:10Josh Clark:That's right. Number three, thank you for the mispronunciations and the accents, especially in the Halloween episodes. Sarah really gets what we're trying to do here. number two thank you for creating something we can usually safely listen to with kids in the car and still be entertained or just have on in the background so we feel surrounded by friends number one thanks to you both for coming to Madison Wisconsin in April second row seats so Sarah I guess we'll be seeing you on the second row there and if you haven't got tickets for Madison yet or Akron or Chicago there's still tickets available
49:48Chuck Bryant:Yeah, it's stuffyoushouldknow.com on the tour button. That's right. That was really nice, Sarah. That was a great email. I'm glad you selected that one, Chuck. Yeah. Thank you very much for all that, Sarah, and thanks for listening as much as you obviously do. And if you want to be like Sarah and send us a clever, cool, neat email, we love those. You can send it off to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
50:14Josh Clark:Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
50:46Josh Clark:Jeff Teague and the gang. Don't call me white, girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie with Crystal Renee. We got reality with the king with Carlos King. And yes, Drink Champ will be in the building. Plus, you know, we're going to have a lot of guests, so you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself, okay? Pull up.
51:19Josh Clark:What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP. aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
51:59Josh Clark:On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects?
52:05Chuck Bryant:In the case of the right fit, Ella explores movement, confidence, and belonging, and learns that not all strength looks the same. This Women's History Month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Code every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
52:29Josh Clark:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
From the publisher
If you could put your leg behind your head, would you? Of course you would! You might even make a career out of it, amazing people around the world with your flexibility. That’d make you a contortionist! But first you’d better get started with stretching.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
