D'oh! Operation Flagship

26:34Yeah, I agree. So to get prepared for this whole thing, they held three different dress rehearsals. That's dedicated for sure, because this was a big production. And it was smart that they held three different dress rehearsals, because again, there's a lot of moving parts. There's a ton of different cops. I think 166 different agents were involved. They were all cops. Everyone there was a cop, like the busboy was a cop. The, you know, person serving your drink was a cop. Yeah. The janitors were cops. Everybody was cops. Like when you walked into the Washington Convention Center that day, there was no one who wasn't a cop, a wanted fugitive or the plus one of the wanted fugitive who had the haplessness of being brought along to this whole show.

27:21Yeah, the real victims. Yeah. So so they rehearsed it many, many times. And one of the things I saw of these 166 law enforcement agents that were part of this. A lot of them were brought in from out of state because they didn't want to risk some of these fugitives from recognizing the marshals who say like were in the courtroom with them when they were first brought to trial or had escorted them from jail to prison before they escaped or something like that. So they brought in a lot of ringers from around the country. So there was a lot of cops working from a lot of different offices all for this one huge scam operation flagship.

28:00Yeah, they had to shave a lot of, about half of their mustaches. Yeah. If you watch, I mean, you can see this whole thing. There's a, it's only like 12 minutes long, an NFL Films documentary on this, on YouTube or wherever. And you can watch the whole thing play out. It's incredible. But they look, it looks like a room staffed with 166 cops. Dressed up as different things. Yeah, I made it through up to, I think, minute three. I was like I cannot watch law enforcement try to play it tongue in cheek it's just I can't do it yeah they even the uh uh cheerleaders who were not dressed as cheerleaders they were dressed in tuxedos like everyone there was wearing a tux which was hysterical right uh because you know it was 1985 that's the epitome of class um but the they were all cops and the one of the women um uh that was interviewed she was like I didn't want to do a cheerleader she was like I was in this, I was a U.S.

28:54Marshal. I was rough and tumble and I wanted to, you know, throw some guys on the ground and put the cuffs on them. But they were like, no, we need you to be a cheerleader. And you're actually the first line of defense because what they did was they hugged these guys upon greeting like, hey, we're cheerleaders, hug, hug, hug. And they're sort of patting them down and feeling for weapons, which is amazing. What was that? There was some movie where they do that to great comedic effect. Oh, really? Yeah. I can't remember, but they're like hugging people while patting them down, but like just clearly patting them down.

29:26Man, that's going to drive me crazy. You'll think of it later. Or somebody will email in, I'll bet at least one person does. Yeah. So, yeah, like we said, everybody there who was in this building was a cop, including the San Diego chicken was armed, was an armed cop. That just goes to show you how big the San Diego chicken was in the early to mid 80s, that they were like, bring the San Diego chicken in for this Washington-Cincinnati football game on the other side of the country. Make sure the San Diego chicken's there. Just to legitimize things. Yeah, because the chicken was for the Padres, not the Chargers even at the time.

30:06The only explanation I saw in the video was they said something about Santa Claus was going to be there. And I don't know why. This is the part that has no explanation. He said, oh, we were like, we can't have Santa Claus. So let's get the San Diego chicken. I was like, he said that as if that was the most reasonable statement he could make. Really? That's hilarious. It's very funny. That is that shows a little heart. Yeah, for sure. I should also say I poked fun at law enforcement trying to be funny. So I looked up to see if there's any cops turned comedians. And there are. Sure. I bet there are.

30:40And I bet that's their whole act. I don't know if it is or not, but I can just tell you to go out and check these guys out. There's Kevin Jordan, Chad Ridgely, who went on to be a groundling, Jim Perry, and Alfie Moore. And I defy you to find the one Brit out of those. Yeah, I bet it's not Alfie. All right, so I'm a Bulby, right? Wow, that was a great Alfie Moore impression. He's the kind of guy that talks like that, I think. Anyway, I just wanted to toss that out there because— Very nice. Thanks. Leshorn, as for his part, he's in the video. He's saying, like, nobody can act like a cop here. We got to smile.

31:20And he says in the NFL film scene, he goes, I know we're not used to smiling at bandits, but today we need to. I was like, bandits? What is happening in 1985? That's right. Yeah, he said no one can act like a cop. Kill them with smiles. Right. Yeah, not with a planted gun. Right. Right. Oh, my gosh. So, like I said, there's a lot of moving parts in a scene where you're trying to nab 160 or so criminals all at once. Again, they rehearsed it three different times, but there's still tons of X factors that can crop up that you just can't plan for. And one of the one of the reasons why they were really kind of on edge is some of these criminals who they'd invited were pretty hardcore.

32:07There were like armed robbers, rapists. There was one murderer in particular who had escaped from prison. He and two other guys had dressed up as security or not security guards, prison guards. And from what I was reading, they have no idea where they got these prison guard uniforms, but they managed to escape. The other two guys got caught. The other guy, Charles Watkins, again, who was in on murder, he had become a fugitive and was wanted as a top 10 fugitive in the D.C. area. So he was a big fish that they were trying to reel in. But at the same time, this guy's a murderer on the run. You have no idea what he's going to do.

32:45So he really had to kind of keep it tight as much as possible. I say that before we get to the actual day, December 15th, 1985, we take another break. All right, let's do it.

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35:45All righty. We are back. It is not Christmas, but it certainly feels like it in 1985. It's December 15th. The Washington Convention Center is decked out. There's a big TV playing highlights of the Redskins season thus far. There's music playing. Everyone's in those tuxes. They got red and gold balloons they're handing out. It's really fun to watch this thing play out. You've got these cheerleaders hugging and patting these guys down. One guy is like leaning in trying to kiss one of the women, and she's just like pulling her face away. And still has her armor on. In fact, she actually, Stacia Hilton, she was the U.S.

36:29Marshal, the cheerleader that they interviewed, or fake cheerleader. And later on, she had gotten out and was brought back into the service as an appointment as director of U.S. Marshal Service by President Obama. Yeah, but so for this day, she's a Redskins cheerleader. yeah exactly so um the what they would do is that the cheerleaders would hug you as you were coming in would not accept kisses it turns out but they would hug you pat you down um although you weren't supposed to know that you were being patted down they would direct you toward a table she's a good hugger right exactly very thorough um so they would they would pour you to this table where you would check in and to claim your prize to make sure you were you you had to show positive id and then when they verified that you were on the list, meaning that you were a wanted fugitive who just showed up to claim your two free tickets to the Washington Redskins football game, they would give you a name tag and the name tag would say confirmed winner.

37:31And then if you were a dangerous criminal, they would give you a name tag that said double winner. And they could not find anywhere how they would explain why somebody was a double winner and not just a confirmed winner. Like, hey, what does that mean? Right, exactly. Like, why me? I have no idea what they said. Surely they had to say something, but I could not find it. It's lost to history. He said, you're dangerously close to winning the Super Bowl tickets, too. That was great. That's how they do it in the movie, at least. So one person came that was not expected. It was an attorney from a local TV station that had the local broadcast rights to the games.

38:17He heard about this flagship international sports television, a.k.a. Fist, and he was like, wait a minute, they can't do this. I'm going to go give them a piece of my mind. Exactly. He shows up with a cease and desist letter, and the cops got him out of there. They were like, here, why don't you go have a talk with these two cheerleaders? They're like, buddy, you're going to blow our cover here. Yeah, they shot him in the leg. Yeah. He hobbled out of there. No, they took him outside. They had to keep it under wraps. So, okay, you want to talk about unexpected guests? Sure. Do you want to know the definition of a scumbag?

38:51Sure. A fugitive who gets caught up in the dragnet of a scam carried out by the U.S. Marshals Service in 1985 and shows up without bothering to RSVP. There were 15 of them. Oh, that's funny. They just came? Yep. They just showed up. Didn't even bother to RSVP. It just got under my skin when I saw that. This is bad manners. For sure. So there was a decent amount of people in this convention center. I mean, 100 and something, 150 cops, I think, 160. A little over one cop to one fugitive. And then most of these fugitives had a plus one, if not all of them. So there is hundreds of people in this convention center.

39:42And like you said, it was a big party atmosphere. But right under the surface, there's a bunch of people with guns ready to take you to jail. But the problem is you can't just round everybody up all at once, right? No. So what they did was pretty clever. They would take 15 to 20 winners at a time to one of the separate conference rooms in this convention center, which really it made me nostalgic Chuck because we played a show or two in the in the conference room of a convention center you know yeah Australia loves those yeah yeah yeah um and they would sit them down and and they would present them with some I guess spiel to start as they shut the doors and everybody was settling into their chairs yeah this is uh Louis McKinney he's on a stage uh and then again this is just like hey this is the party room we're going to get your actual tickets.

40:31And he's the emcee. He's the master of ceremonies. He's wearing a top hat, a literal black top hat. And he doesn't just go up there and say you're all under arrest. He settles everyone down. He said he wanted everyone to kind of get settled in and calm. So he's just doing a bit. He's doing stage work about how excited everyone is and getting everyone like pumped up. And then, and you can literally watch this happen. He says, on behalf of Flagship International, We have a big surprise for you this morning. Everybody's under arrest. And you see behind the doors, you see all these, like, SWAT cops.

41:06It's their version of the SWAT, their SOG, Special Operations Group. That doesn't spell anything clever. They're, like, have literal shotguns, and they're just, like, right behind the door. No, they're like, hup, hup, hup, hup. Yeah, exactly. Hut, hut, hut. That's right. They rappel in through the windows, you know, break through the windows. No, they just, they literally just, like, kick in the door and go running in with shotguns. And you see these guys that like about a third of them, like immediately sort of put their hands on their heads as they were being directed to and get on the ground.

41:36And about a third of them are like, what's happening here? Is this part of the prize? Yeah, they didn't know what was going on. But, you know, soon enough, they had them, you know, face down on the floor. Yeah, sometimes violently. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fifteen people at a time. Then escort them out a different door and just, you know, keep doing that over and over until they got everybody. I have to say something really quick while I was researching this. I had a great little brush with coincidence that I was reading. I got to that part where McKinney says, everybody's under arrest. And I just happened to be listening to the Beach Boys Smile album at the time.

42:11It's not something I've listened to a lot. I just happened to decide to listen to that while I was researching this. And within seconds of reading that part, it reaches the part in the Beach Boys album where they say, you're under arrest. Wow. And that it's worth I mean, that's something right. I mean, that's not your everyday coincidence. No, I love stuff like that. I do, too. So anyway, back to the story. Dave, like I said, helped us with this. And he wondered something that I did as well. What happened to all the guests who are like the crowd of plus ones are getting left behind in larger and larger droves as this party room is like, you know, set and reset.

42:51and people get taken out of the back door to jail. Yeah. And no one knows. I mean, at least no one ever covered what happened. Yeah, I mean, I imagine it was, I've got some bad news and some more bad news. Right. Like, there is no good news. It's like your friend has been arrested and you're also not going to this football game. And you also have to find your way home somehow. Surely they gave him a ride home at least. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I mean, I was laughing about their victims, but they really are. I mean, what a bummer. For sure. Especially those wives that found out that their husbands didn't let them read the letter.

43:29Right. From I.M. Detnall. And didn't want to go to the game to begin with. Right. Yeah. Oh, my God. There are definitely plus ones like that. Yeah. Oh, man. So when this whole thing was pulled off, the reason why the NFL films little mini documentary is so thorough is the media was there. And it would make sense the media was there because this is supposed to be some big deal celebration. So you see people who are like fugitives about to be arrested coming into the convention center like party, like into the cameras that are really like there to film their arrest. But they think they're there to film this big celebration because they won these tickets.

44:13The L.A. Times was there. CBS News was there. Washington Post was there. They were like journalists were allowed to go basically everywhere. They're allowed to interview all of the all of the higher ups conducting this thing. I guess they were just required to basically play it straight and pretend like they didn't know what was going on. But as a result of this direct involvement of the media, there was a huge national celebration for how great the U.S. Marshal Service was and how well they pulled off this amazing sting with not a single shot fired. And aside from violently throwing some of these people to the floor, totally nonviolent roundup of 100 plus perps.

44:56Yeah, I mean, that's the that's why you do it like this for the for the safety and for the money savings or the efficiency, rather, I guess, financially. But the PR aspect of this should not be overlooked. Like they wanted them to film this. They wanted them to know all the cutesy stuff. So one day NFL Films would release a mini doc and future podcasters would talk about it and sort of make fun of it, but also bring them some attention. So the PR part of it was a very purposeful big deal. The guy, I've seen lots of different numbers bandied about by how many people they actually got. I think 144 arrests is what Dave saw.

45:38But in the documentary, the guy whose brainchild it was said it was 101. Really? But if you do the math on 101 arrests, it costs them$22 ,100 to pull this off. That breaks down to just$218 if they got 101 arrests. And the average cost of just a per fugitive cost of nabbing a single fugitive is about almost$1 ,300. So that's a big, efficient haul if you really look at it that way. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's super efficient. And again, not a single shot fired. And don't forget, they nabbed Charles Watkins, the big fish they were trying to reel in. The murderer who had escaped from prison dressed as a prison guard, which really, if you're going to escape from prison, that's a real black eye to that particular prison, dressing up as one of their own guards and escaping.

46:28So it was a big deal that they caught this guy. And Stanley Morris, who was the head of the Marshal Service at the time, was quoted in the L.A. Times saying it's a safe, clean and creative way to get these people off the streets. There's no safer way to make an arrest than away from the home environment. Yeah. I mean, he's probably right. As far as Charles Watkins goes in. And Dave got some of this, by the way, want to shout out the podcast Criminal. Huge shout out. Yeah, because they covered this, and I think they've listened to that and got a couple of these things in the end here from there.

47:04Yeah, it was a December 2024 episode. Oh, so pretty recently. So what I'm guessing is that the listener wrote in after hearing the criminal episode. Maybe. He said, I've got a great idea for your episode. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so go check that out for criminals' point of view. I'm sure it's pretty great because it's a great podcast. but apparently there was a producer from CBS News named Alan Goldberg who went back at the footage and was like, I think he just thought some of this stuff was a little fishier than it was made out to be as some big, huge success. And he saw footage on there of Charles Watkins, a 50-year-old man, saying like, you got the wrong guy, you got the wrong guy.

47:46And it turns out they got the wrong guy. They got Charles Watkins Sr. Charles Watkins, the murderer that was the felon, or rather fugitive and felon, was his son. He was 20 years old. They got the wrong person. Yeah, apparently. The big fish was the wrong fish. Yeah, according to Criminal, like, he finally was able to convince them by showing, like, some ID and some other, like, identification, saying, like, I'm not the guy you're looking for. You're looking for my son. And huge, again, hat tip to Criminal, they did some serious digging. Like, I was listening to it, and Alan Goldberg, who is a huge source for this, they're the ones that he talked to.

48:27This is not like all over the place. Like they found this guy and managed to just completely turn all of the coverage of Operation Flagship. Still today, when you read contemporary stuff about Operation Flagship, it is unquestioningly written about as just this perfect success. They found this guy who was like, this is not actually how it went at all. There's actually, in addition to getting the wrong Charles Watkins. The other big fish they were trying to get, Lloyd Golden, he was a top 10 wanted fugitive for armed robbery. And this Alan Goldberg, you know, God bless him for his journalist streak.

49:04He dug into Lloyd Golden and found that he was wanted for selling some drugs, not armed robbery. He wasn't on any kind of top 10 list. So that's bad enough. But when you really start digging into it, you're like, well, this is not only a waste of money, it turns out, even though it was super efficient. It's actually legal, but pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in this dragnet. Yeah. I mean, it was mainly misdemeanor offenders, a lot of parole violations. There were six traffic offenses in there. And now remember, a lot of these people were thrown to the ground regardless of their of what they were wanted for.

49:45They were a fugitive and they were thrown to the ground violently in some cases for traffic offenses. Yeah, exactly. There was one guy and you can see him in the NFL films doc as they're bringing him out. He was like, man, he's like, you know where I live. You could have come to my house. Basically, like, why did you drag me down here and make me go through all this? Just come knock on my door and arrest me. He's like, I want to speak to Mr. Dutton now.

50:16This turned out to be sort of the beginning of the end, though. It is, again, still praised as a success if you look at any U.S. Marshall stuff. But they, I think, like, Fist9 was just regular police work over a period of eight weeks. They got a bunch of more fugitives, which is great. Yeah, pretty impressive. 3 ,500 fugitives in eight weeks over four states and parts of Mexico. That's with no scams whatsoever. Yeah, no scams. But they just they don't do this stuff anymore. I guess this is sort of the golden age of that kind of thing. They're still out getting fugitives. I think last year they captured more than 3000 violent fugitives in Operation North Star.

50:55But that did not involve culture club tickets or sweepstakes prizes or anything like that. I think the answer is that starting in 1986, they went to nothing but beer and wine at their Christmas parties. Right. Yeah, not the rum punch. Right. So one of the things about Operation Flagship is that it is so nuts that it actually happened. And when you just step back and look at it from the, you know, from the total outside and how great it was and everything, it's extremely entertaining. Cops smart. Criminals stupid. Can you believe they fell for this? There's football involved. Like it has everything you could possibly want.

51:32Right. So it did actually inspire some stuff. Like we said, that whole Mr. Zip thing inspired like the I've got some rose delivery for you fugitive. This specific Operation Flagship inspired apparently the opening scene in Sea of Love with Al Pacino, where Samuel Jackson is among the fugitives who are tricked into a meet the Yankees scam. Yeah. Yeah. That that was copped directly from this, I'm sure. So have you seen the movie Trap, M. Night Shyamalan's vehicle for his daughter's musical career? Yeah. Have you seen it? No. Okay. I just want to talk for one quick minute about this because I heard this movie on two different movie podcasts I listened to.

52:17Scott hasn't seen. He covered this with Mike Castle, husband to Lauren Lapkus as the guest. and then it was also on The Flophouse, one of my favorite shows that I've listened to forever on the MaxFun Network where they cover bad movies Elliot, Dan, and Stu. So Trap is bad then? Yeah, yeah. It's wonderfully bad though. Like I heard both of these before I saw it and I was like I've got to watch this movie now because it's so funny bad and it is. I highly recommend the M. Night Shyamalan, Josh Hartnett movie trap because it is so ridiculous and awful. And the choices that are made as a movie are just bonkers and hysterical.

53:05Okay, so I know. I am a sentient adult human being, and I know that a lot of M. Night Shyamalan's, some of his films are bad. Just bad, terrible. I hated signs. Hated signs. Although that was largely because of Mel Gibson's acting. Most of them are pretty bad to me. He's got a handful of pretty good ones, but yeah. Well, that's what I was going to say. I will still watch every movie that that man puts out because they're so imaginative, so creative. I also love the cinematography in his films. It's always so dark and moody. Yeah, they look pretty good. The Sixth Sense is one of the greatest films of all time.

53:45Yeah. And even like you can give up on him and then come back years later and watch the stuff that you missed. And you're like, man, I love this stuff. It's such a great thing to watch on like Saturday afternoon or something like that. Yeah. I like the Unbreakable movie and the Split, whatever. There was like a trilogy and then that world. Glass and Split. Yeah. I thought all those were pretty good. but yeah a lot of his movies are really bad but still well made enough to be worthwhile even if it's just sort of like a cringe fun watch and Trap is one of them and you know whenever he pops up in his own movies it's always so bad and dumb and obvious and he does so in the funniest worst way in Trap okay good I gotta see this it's really a fun bad movie watch I highly recommend it have you seen A Knock at the Cabin Door?

54:36I have not seen that one that's good I don't see them all. Have you ever seen Servant, the show he made? Uh-uh. Good? Bad? No. It's really good. It's a really good show. Like, he does a great job. He's a confounding filmmaker. Yeah. You know? Just watch Servant. I think you'll like it. I haven't seen all of the seasons. I might have seen the first three, and then I stopped. But I can tell you the first three are definitely worth watching. I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick. Yeah. We cannot finish, though, even though I did mention Homer Simpson earlier. One of the great, great Simpsons episodes, they had a sting operation where they were giving away a boat, right?

55:17Yeah. Yes. I'm sorry. I've watched it yesterday. I guess I was watching it. I noticed something that I'd never noticed before. What was it? At the head of the scene, at the beginning, as they're pulling up to the police station, Homer's falling for a scam like Operation Flagship. But instead of Redskins tickets, it's a free motorboat. So he's all ready for this. He's wearing a captain's hat, driving the family up to the police station to claim his free motorboat. And at the beginning of the scene, as they're pulling up, Lou, one of the cops, has the door kind of like slightly ajar and is peeking out.

55:55Right when he sees Homer pull up, he closes the door real quick. Oh, my God. You have to see it. I can't do it justice. It's just this extra quick little thing that did not need to be added at all, but makes that whole scene so just perfect. Oh, just the heyday of that show. Yeah, season nine. And the whole episode, by the way, too, Lisa the Skeptic is one of the more heartfelt episodes around, too. So good. Hello, why are the pretty ones always insane? Favorites. Also, a little nugget on the end, if you're ever in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and why else would you be there but going to the U.S. Marshall Museum, you can see Louis McKinney's MC black top hat on display.

56:43Very nice. That was a nice little nugget. Yeah. Thanks, Dave, for that nugget. Yeah. Thank you, Dave. That was great. We appreciate the assist on this one and on Harry Belafonte. It's Dave Week, everybody. That's right. And since I said it's Dave Week again, that unlocked listener mail. Hey, guys. Love the show. I just started listening around 2018. I'm now realizing that was seven years ago. My commute to work is about 15 minutes in each direction, so your release schedule is perfect to listen to a fresh SYSK episode all the time. So fresh. I was listening to Automats and hearing Chuck weirded out about pie for breakfast is so funny to me because I'm a chef and I will never understand why pie sweetened, thickened fruit in a pastry is dessert.

57:26But a Danish or jelly donut sweetened, thickened fruit in a pastry are breakfast. And by the way, this totally vindicates you because when you were like pie for breakfast and I was like, that sounds so crazy. I was and you said most breakfast foods are dessert. And I was like, what are you talking about? You're completely right. I wasn't thinking about all this stuff. Oh, I love it when you say stuff like that. I was thinking about eggs and bacon, but I forgot about the sweet side of breakfast, and all that stuff is dessert. Same goes for cake and pancakes. Flour, sugar, eggs, baking powder with a sweet condiment.

57:58French toast is plain white bread dipped in a sweet cinnamon custard, griddled, and then you drizzle sugar syrup on top of it. I love that stuff. So, guys, Josh is right. Lots of breakfast foods are pretty much dessert, and I say if it makes you happy, there's no reason to keep away from dessert foods at breakfast. Your stomach doesn't know what time of day it is. thanks for all the amazing information I've learned so much from you guys and always have a great time listening that is from Aaron Brittingham and Aaron thanks for proving me wrong I forgot about all this sweet breakfast stuff thanks for proving me right yeah and not to even mention cereal I mean what is Captain Crunch besides a bowl of dessert that's right I like to have a balanced breakfast I like the dessert part with a bunch of pancakes or french toast and syrup then I also like the eggs and the bacon part too I breakfast is my favorite meal that I never eat.

58:45But when I do, by God, I love it. Well, yeah, I'm the same way. I don't typically eat breakfast. So if I'm going to eat breakfast breakfast, like it's going to be something like that. Agreed. I gave up cereal and I'm the better off for it. I just have to admit. Yeah, I don't eat that stuff anymore. But if I'm on vacation and there's a good breakfast place, I'm going to party down and then I'll skip lunch. That's right. Nice work, Charles. Well, if you want to be like Aaron and Vindicate Me, bring it on. You can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio.

59:27For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

59:40Hey, it's Joel. And Matt. From How To Money. if your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape. We've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight.

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