Selects: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Gin

20:16Josh Clark:Otherwise, flavored vodka, that name can come up, and that's a dirty word. Yes. But distilled London dry gin, some of the big cats, Beef Eater and Gordon's and Tanqueray are some of those big daddy London dries. Like I said, I'm a Plymouth guy. I like Plymouth too. Yeah. But these are not sweet. That's why they're called dry gins. Right. Sweet gins have a long history and they actually predate gin by many, many years. But the London Dry Gin is what most people think of when they think of gin. And a London Dry Gin is actually a subcategory of a larger category, which is distilled gin. You got gin, which is basically flavored vodkas, which you could literally put any flavor into this neutral spirit and call it gin.

21:08Distilled gin means it went through that process like we described before the break. And London Dry is one of those. That's right. Right? Uh-huh. Is that basically what you just said? Yeah. I mean, I was listening and following it, but it just seemed off. Oh, interesting. Well, I'm glad you cleared that up. I'm sorry about that.

21:25Josh Clark:That's all right. Then we get to Old Tom Gin, and this has an interesting history of its etymology. And I got this from Mark Verthaler at talesofthecocktail.com. Apparently, the name Old Tom comes from these plaques that hung outside of pubs that looked like there was like the shape of an old tomcat's head. And get this, and this is amazing. Apparently, in London, if you had this sign hanging up in the window, underneath the cat's paw was a slot and a lead pipe attached to a funnel, and you could go down the street in England and drop a coin in the slot and get a shot of gin in your mouth. Yeah, from under the cat's paw.

22:11Josh Clark:Amazing. I saw that too. I saw that it originated, Chuck, with this guy named Captain Dudley Bradstreet. And the whole reason he started doing this was because there was a law that said that the informant had to know the name of the person who was selling the illegal gin for the cops to have probable cause to raid a place. Oh, interesting. So he holed himself up in this house on this one alley, Blue Anchor Alley, and started selling gin that way anonymously. and because no one knew who was selling it, the cops could never raid the place. Wow. But yeah, it was under the paw of an old, like a statue or a sign or something of an old tomcat.

22:53Josh Clark:I love it. I do too, man. Old Tom went away. It was very much sweeter. That was when they were using sugar and a lot of botanicals because the base spirit wasn't that great taste-wise. So they loaded it up with sugar and this other stuff. And Prohibition basically killed old Tom Gin for a long time. By the time people started, you know, Prohibition was over, they didn't really have a taste for it anymore. And it has made a comeback in recent years, though, a bit of a comeback. If you are interested in trying, you should start with Ransom's old Tom Gin. Yeah. It's just beautiful stuff. Is it good?

23:29Josh Clark:Mm-hmm. What about Navy Strength Gin? I love that stuff. Have you ever had that? No, I don't know if I have or not, actually. It will make you blind. Oh, really? Like, your hangover is noticeably worse the next day for the same amount of booze. It's just— What's a brand? Just stronger stuff. I think Anchor. I believe Anchor makes a Navy-strength gin. That would make sense. I'm almost positive that's who's I've had. But it's just like this higher proof. I think, like, gin can be as low as, like, 37.5%. percent, and Navy's strength is at least 50 percent. Okay. And there's just a noticeable difference in it.

24:11And the taste is, you know, it's not terribly much different. It's just the potency of it. But it got its name from a pretty great little legend, from what I understand.

24:21Josh Clark:Yeah, that's in the Navy. They loved them some gin in the Navy, and they actually got gin rations. And so sailors would test it out to see if it was, you know, up to snuff or if it was watered down. And they would drizzle it over a little pinch of gunpowder and then light it. And if it lit, then it was Navy strength. Yeah. I love it. And it's not like a legal classification or anything, is it? It's just kind of like a... Well, it says Navy strength gen is at least 57.1%. 11%. I don't know if there's a law in the EU or if that's just sort of a standard. But that's where the name came from, at least.

25:00Josh Clark:Yeah. Yeah, and it's potent stuff. What about Geneva? So that is basically like the predecessor of gin, right? I mean, this Dutch drink that was first drunk for people to get drunk off of? Yeah, that's made more out of a malt wine. I think 15 % to 50 % malt wine. and so it can kind of it's sort of like the maltiness of a whiskey but the botanicals of a gin I think I've always heard that Old Tom and Geneva are a lot alike oh really? yeah they bear a resemblance oh interesting so Geneva is like a pretty good place to start as far as this history of gin goes because it was like I was saying like a proto-gin like one of the first I guess the direct predecessor of gin as we understand it today.

25:49But even further back than that, that essential component of gin, the juniper berry, has been used at least since the 70s. And not the 1970s, I mean just the straight up 70s. There's a recipe from Pliny the Elder from 76 or 77 CE that used juniper berries and you just were supposed to boil some white wine with juniper berries and then drink it. And it was a curative. and probably got you pretty drunk. And then I thought about this. This was like two years before he died at the eruption of Vesuvius. Oh, interesting. Isn't that weird kind of chilling?

26:28Josh Clark:Well, at least he had a nice couple of years there at the end. He definitely did. The word Geneva, G-E-N-E-V-E-R, is actually Dutch for juniper. And it does come hail from Holland. And apparently in the 13th and 14th centuries, and this was when people were using herbs as medicine, But they obviously still do that today. That's what Emily's doing. But apothecaries there were experimenting with all kinds of curative herbs and medical tonics and stuff like that. And juniper was definitely in that category. But where Geneva took a right turn was they said, wow, let's just get drunk. And like it's not so much a cure-all, but I mean maybe it cures some things.

27:13Josh Clark:But it was a drink that you drank to get drunk. It was like, yeah, the first spirit out of, I believe, out of Europe for that people drank. I mean, they had beer and wine and everything before, but Geneva was like this, like the first hard liquor, I think, that people really drank. And like you said, it was a malted wine, right? Yeah, that's the base. Which sounds like something you buy in a convenience store. Yeah. You can drink out of a paper bag, like malted wine. But they would add like sugar to it, and it had juniper, which is why a lot of people say this is the direct predecessor of gin.

27:46And it was how the UK was introduced to gin, was Geneva. Because I think in the 15th century, maybe something like that? 16th. The 16th century, Queen Elizabeth I sent some of her royal soldiers to the Netherlands to fight alongside the Dutch when they were fighting for independence. And the Dutch said, hey, man, take a couple shots of this Geneva and you'll fight anybody. You won't be scared at all. and the English liked that a lot. And so they brought Geneva back with them or a taste for it at least. And Geneva eventually got shortened to gin. That's where we got the word gin from.

28:26Josh Clark:That's right. And about close to 100 years later, the end of the Anglo-Dutch war meant you could actually import it legally by the barrel. And they were called strong water shops was what the early liquor stores in London were called. I love that. I'm sure there are places in America where they have ganked that title. Oh, yeah, and they also wear arm garters. Probably so. I'm so glad you taught me that word because I've always just called it, you know, those like full-timey armbands. And it never had quite the punch. Yeah, arm garters. The first gin distillery in Britain in Plymouth, right? Okay, I had a lot of trouble figuring this one out.

29:10I saw that in 1840, Booth's was the first gin distiller.

29:16Josh Clark:Okay. And that the Plymouth one was, oh, wait, maybe that was like the 1700s. I'm not sure. There was a big rush to establishing gin distilleries in this period that we're talking about. All right. Well, I don't have a date for the Plymouth one, actually. Let me look it up while you're talking. All right. Well, let's flash forward then to the gin craze because gin, depending on who you're asking, was the crack of the 1600s in England. William of Orange, Protestant king of the Netherlands, went to assume the throne of Great Britain during the Glorious Revolution. And they were drinking that Geneva and they loved it as the royalty.

30:02Josh Clark:But the working class could not afford this stuff. So they started making their own rot gut like bathtub gin. Right. And apparently bathtub gin is, it is not brewed or not brewed. It's not distilled in a bathtub. It can be mixed with botanicals in a bathtub. But from what I saw, the main reason it's called bathtub gin is because to water it down and top it off with water, you couldn't fit it in these bottles in a sink. So you had to do that in a bathtub. Oh, okay. But I think they were mixing up botanicals and stuff too. But at any rate, this rot-gut gin in the early 1700s and by the mid-1700s, there was a full-on gin problem in the UK.

30:45Yeah, it was called the gin craze. And especially if you read kind of the tracks railing against it at the time and newspaper editorials and stories about just the depravity that was going on because of gin. And like the whole country was just totally off its rocker on gin. And not even like good gin or even Geneva, this bathtub rock gut stuff that you were talking about where they would add things like turpentine to give it a piney flavor because they didn't have juniper berries. They would add sulfuric acid to give it a hot aftertaste like it was supposed to have. Just really, really bad stuff.

31:25And it was making people crazy. and there were stories about mothers who, there was a woman named Judith DeFour who killed her own daughter so that she could sell her clothes to buy more gin or parents like selling their kids into slavery to buy more gin, people turning into sex workers just to get gin money and just supposedly, it was like you said, it was just like the crack epidemic and the same kind of response to it as well here in the United States, but this is gin back in the early 18th century.

31:58Josh Clark:Yeah, and for sure there was a gin problem. Now historians look back a little bit and they're like, you know what? These articles were written and these op-eds were written by the upper class in Britain and they had basically an obsession with the English character being degraded and dragged through the mud by these gin drunks. So take it with a grain of salt. There for sure was a gin problem, but they're basically like, is it chicken or an egg thing going on? Right. Because they're like, urbanization is going rampant in London at the time, and was the gin craze a product of this poverty or the cause of it?

32:37Josh Clark:And by all accounts these days, it looks like it was sort of a product of it. I saw that there were at least two documented cases of spontaneous human combustion from drinking this gin. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Some hardcore gin. Jeez. There were eight different gin acts from parliament over about a 22-year period. Basically, I mean, they said different things, but one of the big ones was, hey, you can't put sulfuric acid in this stuff and sell it anymore. Right. And little by little, these incremental laws over these eight acts made it really expensive to have a license to sell gin, really expensive to import neutral spirits, and just basically made it so that unless you owned a large distillery and an established, like, tavern, you could not legally engage in selling or producing gin.

33:36In ginnery? Yeah.

33:38Josh Clark:I think that's what it said in the act. In ginnery? Yes, thou shalt not partake in ginnery of any kind. Right, okay. So especially if your name is my cocaine. Wow, you finally did it. Did I do it? If I did, it was accidental. No, you didn't. Okay, so, but over the course of these acts, it left just like these handful of huge distilleries like Booth's, Plymouth. Plymouth, by the way, was the first. It was in the late 18th century. Oh, nice. And a couple others, I think Boodles might have been around by then. But all the small distilleries went away just by law. And so when this artisanal revolution that we're currently going in, that's going on now, swept over to England, this company called Sipsmiths went to go start their own.

34:28And they found out that they couldn't by law. That was 200 years old. So they had to lobby. And they were the first company in 200 years to get a license to brew or distill small batch gin in England. Amazing. Because of those gin acts. That's pretty great. I think so, too.

34:46Josh Clark:All right. Well, let's take another little break here, and we'll talk more about gin right after this.

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37:18All right.

37:20Josh Clark:So, gin is going strong in the 1700s. Some might say it's a problem. Flash forward to the 1800s, 1830, and the invention of the continuous still came about. That's pretty big. If you come over to my house, you see Emily down there. She doesn't have it. She has a traditional copper pot still, which means that you can do one thing at a time, basically. You boil your mash and the alcohol, boil that off. You collect that distilled spirit in the end, but then you've got to start all over again. The continuous still was a very bad. And the other bad part about that is your ABV is going to be pretty low.

38:01Right.

38:01Josh Clark:If you're doing the single pot. That's your alcohol by volume. That's right. Because the longer it was, say, distilled, the pure and more alcoholic, the ultimate spirit you captured would be, right? That's right. Okay. So if you have a continuous still, which was what was invented in 1830, that means you can just keep going, man. You just keep throwing that mash in there, and you keep that process going, and you get more and more pure as you go, and you're going to get that beautiful, clear grain alcohol around 96 % in the end. And that really, really changed the game. Yeah, because so like these continuous stills or coffee stills after the man who invented them, it's like the spirit rises through increasingly higher up stages, and it's reheated and heated and heated.

38:49And so it becomes purer and purer the higher up it goes. And then eventually it gets tapped off and then you have that high test alcohol. And because you could get pure alcohol to use as the base spirit for gin, you had less of a funky, foul, nasty taste that you needed to cover up with stuff like botanicals or sugar or turpentine, which meant that you could produce gin with a much purer gin that eventually evolved into London dry gin.

39:21Josh Clark:Yeah, and London dry gin, again, with the dry, that means it's not as sugary. Apparently, Victorians in the upper class at one point decided to basically lower their sugar intake. I don't know if that was just a major health kick going on. It sounds like John Harvey Kellogg's work here. Oh, maybe so. But that's when they started getting rid of the sugar, and that's why you get this drier version, which became the London Dry Gin. And the rest is history. They started producing some really high-quality gins in England at the time. Yeah, they did. I think that's when Booth's and Boodles and all those guys started.

40:02Beefeater. Beefeater. Cortons. That was great. That was fine for a while. Like you said, the Navy was getting their rations and then going out to sea with their gin and testing it on gunpowder and all of that. But one of the things that you'll look at, especially with the London dried gin, is while there's no sugar, there's like a really interesting combination of those botanicals. And a botanical, we didn't really say, but I think it's kind of self-evident. It's any kind of like root, plant, seed, leaf, stem, bark, whatever, that's used to add a particular flavor profile to gin. Typically juniper is like the chief botanical in a gin.

40:44But if you look at like these lists of botanicals that are frequently used in London dry gin, they come from all over the world. And it's no coincidence that England was at the height of its imperial colonial power at a time when London Dry Gin developed because it was in a position to bring all these ingredients from all over the world to the distilleries that had set up shop in London.

41:07Josh Clark:Yeah, I mean, I think even the Bombay Sapphire has each country listed behind the botanical. And it's, you know, they're all from 10 different places or 11 different places. Yeah. Pretty cool. It is pretty cool. So the seafaring of the Brits, British Sea Power. Have you ever heard of that band? Yeah, they're good. I used to love those guys. They were like early 2000s, right? Yeah, that was a big L.A. band for me. Oh, okay. I didn't know where they were from. No, no, no. When I lived in L.A. Oh, I see. They're British. I always think so. They were from like the era of Montreal and Someone Still Loves You, Boris Yeltsin and all those kind of indie bands at the same time, right?

41:46Josh Clark:Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Love those guys. British sea power. But that had a lot to do with gin because the Brits and their navy were very strong and they sailed a lot and traveled all over the world, obviously, because they had certain interests like conquering your country and making it their own. And getting their hands on your botanicals. That's right. And also getting there into, like, let's say the tropics and saying, like, wow, I've never been here before. What are these things that we can eat and drink? And what is this disease, malaria? I don't want to get that. And so they looked at the people from there, obviously, to get their clue on, like, they're fine.

42:26Josh Clark:How can we be like them? And the natives of South America chewed on that chinchona tree and that bark to combat malaria. And chinchona is pretty wondrous. That bark has a natural chemical, and that is the quinine that you hear. If you look at a tonic bottle, it contains quinine. And it calms your, you know, it makes you feel better if you have malaria, but it also disrupts the metabolism of the parasite and kills it. So it's a medicament as well as a help you feel better type thing. Oh, la, la. What? Medicament. I'm in a predicament because my heart's all afloat. Oh, look at you. Something just happened to me.

43:10Josh Clark:But these doctors were like, hey, yeah, you British soldier, you should – they started prescribing this stuff, this Chinchona bark, and colonists in India and South America, and they were eating a ton of it, 700 tons, actually. In the 1840s, 700 tons of Chinchona bark a year were being eaten by British soldiers and settlers. Yep. And so they figured out how to, I guess, distill quinine, probably using a coffee still, and started putting it into tonic, like making this tonic water. Basically, I'm sure what you're buying is just distilled quinine from the Chinchona bark. It's got to be, right? I mean, that's tonic.

43:52Josh Clark:I think I'm going to look at the other stuff in there, and maybe I'll follow up with some ingredients. Okay, do. And bring me some too, please. Okay. But so with quinine, like you were basically taking a dose of quinine in a shot of tonic water. And so because everybody was sailing around the world on British ships with gin in one hand and tonic water in the other hand, they eventually put the two together and came up with the gin and tonic, throw a lemon or a lime slice in there to combat scurvy, and you have a complete drink. That's amazing. It is. And apparently a lot of these gin cocktails were born out of the nasty taste of the original alcohol.

44:33Josh Clark:So, you know, we were talking about that rot gut gin. What do you do? You're going to mix it with a lot of stuff to try and make it more drinkable. Right. That is not the martini, however. This is a pretty neat story. In the 1870s and 80s is when martinis were born. And this is from a gentleman named Richard Barnett. And this makes so much sense. It's very cool. He said the martini is an embodiment of American history at its most diverse. Dutch and English gin mixed with French vermouth served with Mediterranean olives, German Jewish pickled onions, or Caribbean lemons. Yeah. And that glass, which, by the way, one of my more annoyances in life, biggest annoyances is when you get a martini these days, some weird glass.

45:19Yeah.

45:20Josh Clark:Just get a martini glass. But do you like the big honking 90s Karen from Will and Grace style martini glasses? I do. Or like the classic 60s, you know, Mad Men martini glass? Well, okay. More compact version. I like them both. I'll take either one. But just give me that conical glass. Don't give me like a tulip glass. I've not seen a martini in a tulip glass. I have. There are places around town that serve them in these little tulip glasses. And just do it right. Yeah, do it right. I mean, it's literally called a martini glass. It's the glass meant for it. Yeah, it's like serving a margarita in a, well, you can serve a margarita in a lot of different things, I guess.

46:03Sure, you can just cup your hands and drink a margarita out of there. And people have, including me. That's true. You can get the margarita ingredients poured down your throat. You don't even need to use your hands. That's true. It's senior frogs.

46:19Josh Clark:The 1920s is when the gin craze kind of was re-kickstarted again because of prohibition. And they even went back to putting, like, disgusting ingredients in there. Yeah, you mean, like, not the gin craze, like, oh, everybody likes gin. Like, the gin craze, like, everybody's going bonkers because of the terrible gin they're drinking, right? Well, and everyone's drinking gin because it wasn't just straight-up ethyl alcohol from a moonshiner. They're like, hey, at least let's throw some quote-unquote ingredients in here. Oh, yeah, turpentine again. Yeah. They use the same stuff that they used in the original gin, Chris.

46:56Sulfuric acid and turpentine.

46:58Josh Clark:I know. Isn't that gross? It's a classic recipe. Yeah. Gross, dude. What else was made? The Manhattan, the gin fizz, the gimlet? Yep. These are all born out of that sort of 1930s post-prohibition cocktail movement. Yeah, we talked a lot about the origin of some of those drinks in that How Bars Work live episode, if I remember correctly. Yeah, those are very good shows. But it's funny to think, like, some of our favorite cocktails were built to combat the tastes of nasty gin. Yeah. Which is why people are like, oh, yeah, don't use the good stuff to mix. Like, the whole reason for mixing is to cover up the nasty stuff.

47:39Josh Clark:Yeah. Just drink the good stuff straight. Right, although I cannot imagine just drinking like a neat room temperature gin. That does not sound good to me. Well, let me tell you the story of my first gin experience. Okay. In Athens in college, and Dave Ruse put this article together for us, and he very astutely points out that if you're a child of the 70s and 80s, you probably didn't drink like a gin and tonic early on. Like this is something you may have picked up on later. And that was the case for me. It was late college, and there was a fellow waiter at Mexicali Grill that was there for just a brief period named Don.

48:14Josh Clark:Can't remember the guy's last name. It doesn't matter. And Don and I ended up out on the river late night at Oconee Springs Park with a half gallon of Seagram's gin. Oh, my God. Just took it too far, and we're drinking it right out of the bottle and wading out into the river and not being very safe, quite frankly. It doesn't sound like that. But I'll always remember Don for that. He introduced me to Jen, and he introduced me unsuccessfully to the Dave Matthews Band. It didn't stick, huh? I don't know why those always stick out to me, but Don was the first guy who was like, man, this band is playing across the street.

48:51Josh Clark:And they're like, it's crazy. It's kind of jazzy, and they're multiracial. And it's like, you never heard anything like it. And that was Dave Matthews Band. Yeah, he was right about that. He was factually correct about two things. He's jazzy and multiracial. Man, Seagram's right out of the handle. Oh, boy, it was bad. But I remember very distinctly, like, tasting that piney gin and thinking, like, ooh, this isn't a good thing to drink like this. No, it took me many years to finally come around to gin and be like, oh, okay. I liked vodka martinis. That was one of my first drinks ever was vodka martinis.

49:27When you were 13? Yeah, pretty much. in my treehouse smoking cigarettes and drinking vodka martinis the summer before ninth grade. But, like, so I would drink vodka martinis. It wasn't like I just couldn't take the taste of, like, straight up alcohol, but for some reason I did not like gin. And then I finally gave it a chance. I was like, actually, this is way better than vodka.

49:50Josh Clark:I've never been a vodka guy. Unless you're talking about that delightful birthday cake flavored vodka. Oh. Is that a thing? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Hey, we don't judge, man, if that's what you like. Oh, sure. That's what you like. Of course. Gin is making a big comeback now, though, like we said. It may have started in the late 90s when Bombay Sapphire first came to the U.S. Yeah. Apparently it was a pretty big hit. Then Hendrix came along in the U.S. in 2003. Yeah. Love that, Hendrix. We're seeing as many brands as possible, so. In the hopes that they'll send us free stuff. We get a lot of whiskey.

50:25Josh Clark:We never get gin. Yeah, no, no. Every once in a while we've gotten gin, but not ever. No, not really. But the gennaissance is on still. Nice. Did you just coin that? I did. That was really good. Thanks. Gennaissance and medicant. Medicament. Oh, even better. That's a real word, though. I didn't make that up. I know, but you just pull it out of the ether. It's great. Fantastic. Did you get anything else? No, I thought you were still going and I interrupted you and you're going to pick up again. You'd think after like 12 years of doing this, we would have had that figured out by now. Oh, I got nothing else.

51:04I don't have anything else either except the gin is great. It is great stuff.

51:09Josh Clark:If you're of legal age, drink responsibly. Don't drive, certainly. Nope. Make it really easy on you to not drive these days. Yeah, man. Take advantage of it. Ride hailing apps, you have zero excuse these days. That's right. Well, if you want to know more about gin, well, again, I guess if you're 21, give it a try. See what happens. But like Chuck said, drink responsibly. If you're not 21, you're going to have to wait. Sorry. And since I said you're going to have to wait, sorry, it's time for listener mail. All right, so listener mail. This one is, let me see here. Oh, this is a hand-type letter.

51:48Josh Clark:Look at this thing. Nice. Not an email. No. It's a printed email. It's also not written in the cutout magazine letters either. It's just nice typewritten. So this is from Westwood Sutherland, and he's the guy who sent us that beef jerky. Oh, yeah. Thanks, Westwood. Hey, guys. My name is Westwood Sutherland, currently a college sophomore in environmental engineering at University of Colorado Boulder. Sko Buffs, he says. Sure. I'd like to say I'm your biggest fan, but I can't compete with my dad, who introduced me to your podcast. He's been listening for years and even acts on some of your information.

52:25Josh Clark:After hearing your podcast about bees, the first one, not the beekeeping, he became a beekeeper. Wow. And has reaped the rewards for years now and increased production from our fruit trees as well as getting some honey. That's awesome. Though he has to deal with the bear. He'd send in that picture of the bear. That's the local cop that hassles him all the time? No, it's a bear going after his honey and he named the bear Jerry. How great is that? It's great. Give me some miso. He also invested money into a stock. I'm sorry, into any stock that worked with CRISPR. Oh, smart guy. And after hearing your gene editing podcast, and he is very happy with the results.

53:07Josh Clark:Wink, wink. That's nice. I didn't. I should have. Yeah. We didn't even take our own advice. Well, it's my problem. Anyway, the reason I got into your podcast, I started a beef jerky company when I was 14. I love that stuff. And I was selling enough that I spent lots of hours cutting, marinating, laying meat, and bagging jerky. During those long hours, my dad would help. We'd listen to stuff you should know one after the other and made time go by very quickly. Just wanted to say thank you for your wisdom, comedy, insight, and making my days of jerky production a bit easier. I've included some samples of my jerky as a thank you.

53:40That is so cool. And that is Westwood Sutherland, and you can find his beef jerky at westsidejerky.com. I believe Westwood comes from a pretty amazing family.

53:51Josh Clark:And you know what? Let me correct that too. He does come from an amazing family. It is West's side, as in Westwood. So W-E-S-T-S-S-I-D-E, jerky.com. The extra S stands for super. Small batch, flank steak, beef jerky, gluten-free, and 100 % not vegan. That's right. That's what he says on his card. Thanks, Westwood. That was pretty cool. and hats off to your dad too for being so cool as well. That's right. We need to do administrative details soon because I came across the list. We've got stuff that was given to us a year ago at like shows in October. Oh, wow. Yeah, so we need to do it soon, okay?

54:31Josh Clark:Totally. Okay, well, if you want to get in touch with us like Westwood did, you can go on to our social links, start at stuffyoushouldknow.com and you can also send us an email or you can send us a typewritten letter, but try an email too. You can send it off to StuffPodcasts at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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