Selects: How Itching Works

28:43Which, as opposed to like heat on the hand, like a candle on your hand, I almost said candle in the wind. That's super fast, but that explains why an itch is kind of slow to come and then slow to resolve by scratching. It's not like you scratch it and you're like, oh, it's all better now. It helps a little bit. So the itching is a good strategy if you think about, say, there's a mosquito on you and that's what's making you itch. When you go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito, maybe even smushed it or something like that the the problem is taken care of the issue is is that that itch scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch this is what they think is going on this is another mystery with itches we don't understand how scratching alleviates an itch right or why we scratch really right what they think the current hypothesis is that when you scratch an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that aren't itch receptors.

29:51Yeah. So I got that. But what does that do to sort of like say, hey, body, don't worry about that for a minute. I think so. A pain receptor is now active. Right. Exactly. It's sending feedback to the brain saying it's being taken care of. You can settle down with the itch. Gotcha. Right. I think the problem is, is that neurologically or neurochemically when you scratch an itch you're activating those pain receptors in the area pain pressure that kind of thing you're causing um serotonin to be released right natural pain reliever right yeah or at least mood enhancer and what they found is that serotonin among other neurochemicals actually exacerbates the itch sensation so your itch not only comes back it gets worse so you go to scratch it again and then same thing happens over and over again that's the itch scratch cycle which it's not the best cycle around no you can think of better cycles not a bad band name yeah it's okay a little too cute maybe prog folk prog well they'd have to be german probably german folk prog okay yeah uh another interesting thing they learned too was that um i guess we're kind of jumping around but who cares right if you scratch you don't have to scratch the point of the itch to relieve it apparently right like if you have i had that itch on my right uh forearm and i could scratch maybe it doesn't have to be the left forearm so it's not like you have to mirror it um but i could scratch like my neck and apparently that might help relieve it yeah i tried it it didn't work for me no no but i think the reason why there's that's it's possible that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also um activates like your pleasure center yeah you bet it does but there's different different places where you're scratching on your body um have different amounts of pleasure associated with them did you know that i mean i guess i guess so but yeah interesting well yeah but i mean think about it it's like if you scratch your scratch your like your clavicle who cares it's nothing right but then you scratch like your head right above and behind your ear it's great well and they i think they did find that like uh your back and your ankles supposedly are some of the most rewarding places to scratch exactly and i i don't know i've never really thought about the ankles but But my mom would give me back scratches when I was a kid.

32:26That's nice. And it was always like one of my favorite things ever. Sure. And so I don't get those anymore now that I'm a grown-up because that's gross. Mom, scratch my back. Right. I'm 46 years old. Lay down. But, yeah, it was like I think I prefer to back scratch to a back rub even. Oh, yeah. When I was younger. but now, you know, a massage is probably way better. But if a masseuse could include a little back scratch in there, get ready for a huge tip for me. Yeah, I guess so. Or does that, what, is that sexual? I think it crosses a line once they're potentially clawing away skin cells. I think that's no longer in the masseuse range or masseur range.

33:12Yeah, I get that. Once skin cells are involved under the nails, then you're a murder suspect. Right, exactly. All right. Well, should we take another break? Yeah. And talk a little bit about one of the most distressing articles I've ever read.

33:39Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion-dollar company, which would have been unimaginable without AI, and now will happen.

34:13I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. the moments that shape us often begin with a simple question what do i want my life to look like now i'm dr joy harden bradford and on therapy for black girls we create space for honest conversations about identity relationships mental health and the choices that help us grow as cyber security expert camille stewart gloster reminds us we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us.

35:08And so what we find is a lot of Black women are standing up and speaking out because they feel the brunt of the pain. Each week we explore the tools and insights that help you move with purpose, whether you're navigating something new or returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Like if we're on the air here and I literally have my contract here and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven figure check.

35:43I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creators who built the cultural empire, the Atlanta Is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent creatives in all walks of life.

36:23The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you from Atlanta for real? I ain't got to say too much. I'm a Grady baby. Shut up. Listen to Atlanta Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

36:55I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

37:42Starting January 20th.

37:53All right, so we've referenced this article from The New Yorker, from Dr. Atul Gawande. and he talked a lot about itching and just had good information on the science of it all. Well, that's what he does. But most of the article was focused on a patient, a woman in Massachusetts, that they named M for the article. Just M. The letter M. Right. In other words, she's anonymous. And I think she was anonymous because she kind of had a rough go after her divorce. She ended up getting HIV from getting on heroin. Kind of spun out, it seems like, but then got her life back by all accounts, but ended up getting shingles as a result of HIV complications.

38:42Right. And the shingles went away, but the itching did not, to say the least. Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles even. and at first her her physicians were like well i mean you must have you damaged some nerves in there so ts for you i guess yeah um and then eventually after treating it like all these different ways and it's still being scratching they said okay you're crazy how about that right and she said well whatever i still have this itch do whatever you need to to treat it because I'm literally scratching this itch in my sleep. It was on her scalp, wasn't it? Yeah, it was on her head, and she kind of managed to control it during the day, but like you said, at night she couldn't control it to the point where I think she was restrained in her sleep.

39:35That came after. Oh, okay. After they realized it's a problem because your brain is oozing out of your head. Yeah. Can you believe that? She scratched her scalp so much that she scratched through her skull, and she went into her doctor one day and said they've got like this green fluid coming down and then apparently the doctor didn't even say anything he was just she or she was like excuse me went and called an ambulance and came back and said please lay down and don't talk or move or do anything else and they finally told her after she was at the er you scratched through to your brain like that's your brain you're touching right now the doctor's like very interesting um just give me a second here oh my god uh well they gathered up all the other doctors and nurses sure yeah you got to come see this she said also in this article um she said that she had a uh what do they call a roommate at a okay a roommate yeah so um she had a roommate while she was like they treated it gave her a skin graft and then she she itched she scratched away the skin graft oh man and then um they finally were like okay you're going to an asylum and she's like do they even call it that anymore and they're like just shut up yeah and they put her in this asylum and restrained her like you said while she was sleeping and she had a roommate in there she said in the article she she heard didn't survive he had scratched through his carotid artery and died blood death yeah um So they never really got to the bottom of this.

41:16She finally got a doctor. Like the doctors were like, it's something that had to do with the shingles. This is what we think happens at our doctors. That the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles were so devastated by the shingles that there were just a couple of nerve endings left. And it just so happened that they were itch receptors. Yeah, itch receptors. Bad luck. And that those were like really exacerbated by the fact that there was no other competing sensations. Oh. Ipso facto, there's your problem, right? So they said, well, we'll just cut the main nerve to your face, and that should solve the problem.

41:55They cut the main nerve to her face. She said, thanks a lot. Yeah. And then the itch came back, and she's like, you have to be kidding me. So finally, she met a doctor who said, I don't think it's your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think it's your brain. Yeah. Not psychologically. I don't think it's a psychosis. I think there's that the actual itch signal in your brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission going on. Yeah. And apparently she was right. But then they were like, good luck treating that. Right. Yeah. I didn't see much follow up on this. I did read one article that a follow up with Dr.

42:34Gawande because there were a lot of skeptics after that article came out that said it's impossible with your fingernail. because she said she didn't use an implement. It's not like she got out a metal file to scratch through your skull. And he said that his theory was that bacteria that became infected had eaten it away such that the skull became soft. Turned it to mush. Yeah. Yick. And then people also said, you know, you don't have men and women in the same room in hospitals or asylums. That's false. And he said that it was like the room next door. And quit being pedantic. Yeah, really. Man.

43:11I think people just didn't believe it. So all these folks wrote into the New Yorker. All these coastal elites said, no way. They said, Atul, Atul, come on. So the idea, though, that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think Atul Gawande is a pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up. But even if, say she was hypothetical, her problem, what the doctors initially thought it was, was that she had a neuropathic itch. type of chronic itch but then the doctor who apparently figured it all out said no no no it's a neurogenic itch another type of chronic itch and it has to do with whether it's the brain going off or the nerve transmissions going off either way you don't actually have an itch although you're experiencing the itch sensation well and they also then said at some point she had a psychogenic itch so they basically covered three out of the four kinds of itches is the last one being, man, I have such a hard time, pre-receptive, and that's what you get from like a mosquito bite or if you have a skin disorder like eczema or something.

44:20Sure. So they basically ruled out the most common one, and at various stages said, you've got this other one for the other three. Right. Finally. And then again, they said, there's really nothing we can do to treat it. The one that they've got down pretty well is pre-receptive. We've got all sorts of stuff to treat that because that's basically histamine is being released and your skin is itching. So you can treat histamines with antihistamines. You can reduce that response and then your itch will go away. Well, I took Benadryl at night and they also make this Benadryl spray, a topical spray that just really helps.

44:57Right. So between that and cortisone and then the Benadryl at night, I did okay. Right. And those awesome showers. So the, like the pro-receptive itch, we've got treatment for basically. Yeah. The other three, you're, you're in trouble. It turns out as far as it stands right now, maybe five or 10 years from now, there'll be something. Apparently there is a lot of movement right now on treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in the body. Like that NPPB, right? Yeah. Yeah, that one, what is it, can help regulate your blood pressure as well?

45:36Yeah, right. You can't just switch that off. Right. Just turn off the gene that produces that. You won't itch, but you might die early. Right. Not worth it. Right. The one that really, I mean, they're all sad, but the psychogenic, when you have a mental illness where you feel like parasites and bugs on your skin. You remember our Morgulon's disease? Yeah. How did, you said it, Morgulon's, right? And I said Morgulon's? I can't remember. I know that I said it the way everyone else says it though that's all I remember that's right that's how I said it man but all this stuff had so much empathy for Em and wanted to follow up so bad to see how she was doing you know yeah she kept scratching holes in her skull I don't know jeez I read another article called Accidental Therapists it's by a guy named eric broodman and it was published on a website called stat and it's all about delusional parasite paracitosis but how it's treated sometimes by entomologists you know like those um extension services at universities yeah here in the u.s like state universities have what are called extension services where like a um a scientist will basically be there for the public to come talk to about whatever.

47:01Usually it's like household stuff or farm stuff, something like that. And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like, I've got these bugs crawling all over me. Here's a sample of them. And it turns out it's like carpet fiber or something like that. And these people just can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they have a delusion. They don't actually have parasites. My question is, is that our understanding of it now? and in five or ten years we're going to know that they had neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were crazy even though they weren't?

47:33Yeah. And it's going to be like a real blemish on the history of neuroscience? Maybe. Or will this idea of psychogenic itches hold up? Yeah. I wonder. Did you ever see the Todd Haynes movie Safe with Julianne Moore? No. It was one of his first movies after the Karen Carpenter thing he did that wasn't like, I mean, it was a real movie, but it wasn't released. But Safe was very disturbing. It was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her. Wow. And like household chemicals and everything, and it kind of started slow, and eventually she ended up at this kind of safe camp for people like her.

48:15Right. Very distressing movie, and one of her first movies too. I'll have to check it out. Yeah, it's really good. Oh, it's old? Yeah, it was early 90s, I think. I know what you're talking about. No, it's called the Road to Wellville. Is that what you mean? No, it's called Safe. Okay, I'll check it out. Yeah, it's good. Very distressing. I'm trying to think of anything. And that wasn't necessarily itching, but it was just like that psychogenic thing of like, I think everything in my house is killing me. Yeah, I mean, have you ever like stopped and thought about something and thought, there's the path to madness right there.

48:49I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not keep thinking about this I don't really get like that oh no? no I'm very easily kind of led on to the next shiny thing I got you I'm like a bird yeah basically that's probably for the best it is it has its drawbacks though what else you got well one thing it says in here is that having someone else scratch your itch apparently does not do the trick so you have to scratch your own itch yeah i mean somebody can like obviously like you know if you're like a little left a little left up up up yeah see i agree with that oh man not you the them saying oh right like i think it definitely helps i think what they're saying is it doesn't have quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself oh yeah and if you could reach that area of your back it would be better than that yeah i guess so i got a pretty good back scratcher now though oh yeah what's it made of bamboo no it's it's metal but it's uh telescoping so it's not you know two feet long gotcha but it can be but it's metal yeah it looks like a like what are the bear claw not the pastry but a real bear claw which actually looks like the pastry man i guess it does that's why they call it that i never thought about that why'd you think that was called that i'm just kidding i actually should call it a bear paw it looks more like a bear paw than a bear paw.

50:17I guess it does. I'm going to try and bring that around. Unless you get somebody who really goes the extra mile and puts almonds on the tips to make it look like the claw. Yes. And not just haphazardly scattered about the bear paw. Exactly. That's the difference between a baker who loves their job and one who's just in it for the money. Yeah. A couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still plenty of mysteries around itches. Why, say, Does a feather tickle sometimes but itch other times? Big question. They don't know. Right. But I'd like to know. Well, maybe the Germans will get active on this again.

51:00Yeah. They're the only ones who can solve it. Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else? No, I don't. I don't either. Itching. Nice work. Thanks, man. Same to you. Thank you. And you haven't scratched in a while. No, I'm actually, I've been scratching the same spot and it's starting to get a little tender, so I'm stopping. Man, there's nothing worse in a movie. And I feel like I've seen this a few times in movies where someone is compulsively scratching until it becomes a sore and then they're scratching it. It's just like, ugh, I can't watch that. Through to their brain? Well, yeah.

51:37So I guess the moral of this one is, what would Tom Petty do? I'll ask him tomorrow. If you want to know more about itching or what Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.

52:00I'm going to call this one of the many emails we got on the swearing episode. Did you notice that? People really seemed to like that one. Yeah, they did. Got a lot of response. Yeah. mostly from fellow potty mouths, which were very filthy emails too, which were great. Yeah. And I responded in turn by cursing at them in my replies, which I hope they enjoyed. In all caps? No. I didn't want to be too aggressive. So this is from Emily Allen. Hey, guys, long-time listener. First time writing in. Writing about swearing, I should start by saying that it's funny I'm writing about this episode because I almost never curse.

52:40and when I do, it's normally not a very offensive swear. However, your intro made me think of something interesting I wanted to share. You talked about how you really censor yourself during recording in order to keep your show family-friendly. It got me thinking about how our jobs really shape our vocabulary, how we express ourselves. I noticed a major change in the way I speak since becoming a teacher. I primarily teach kindergarten to second-grade students, and I found this really changed the way I express myself. For example, I try to avoid even saying things that are dumb or stupid around kids will often say, well, isn't that silly instead?

53:12This works in the classroom, but I often get laughs from friends and family when I refer to a situation as silly, like a disagreement with a colleague or something a politician does. There are other expressions I use with kids that often slip into regular conversation as well. The most embarrassing, when I'm out and excuse myself to go potty. That always gets a laugh. Anyway, I just wanted to share and thank you for all the great work you do. I learn so much from listening each week, and I'm always excited to see the new episode, Offerings, every Tuesday and Thursday. That is from Emily Allen.

53:49Thank you, Ms. Allen. Very silly. That was a very nice email. Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us like Ms. Allen did, you can send us an email at stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

54:24Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, we always say new year, new me, but real change starts on the inside.

54:59It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of Checking In on the Black Effect Podcast Network. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New year, real you. Listen to Checking In with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I didn't really have an interest in being on air. I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building.

55:37From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creators who built the cultural empire. The Atlanta is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise featuring conversations with ludicrous Will Packer, pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ drama and more. The full series is available to listen to now. Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.

56:13Guaranteed human.