Selects: How Peanut Butter Works

7:51Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

7:51Josh Clark:I'm hungry now.

7:53Chuck Bryant:I am too. I already had some peanut butter this morning, so I'm good to go. But this thing, this is like the yawning episode where I kept yawning doing research. This is, I just wanted peanut butter the whole time.

8:04Josh Clark:Well, peanut butter for me has now become my, since January, you know, I'm trying to lose some weight. So that's become my sweet treat at the end of the night instead of going and getting ice cream.

8:15Chuck Bryant:Oh, good for you.

8:16Josh Clark:Just like a spoonful of peanut butter and honey, and that'll satiate that desire.

8:21Chuck Bryant:I haven't seen you in a while. How's it going?

8:24Josh Clark:It's good. I mean, I'm down 20 since January, but it's really leveled off the past month.

8:30Chuck Bryant:Congratulations, dude. That is really impressive.

8:33Josh Clark:Just 40 more to go.

8:35Chuck Bryant:Man, no, that's really great, man. Yeah, it does plateau, but it picks up again. Don't worry.

8:41Josh Clark:Well, it plateaus because of quarantine alcoholism.

8:44Chuck Bryant:Oh, well, I was going to ask because I'm finding that quarantining has made things like, you know, we have food and everything, but we're, we're eating it less for some reason rather than the opposite, which both you, me and I were really concerned was going to be the way it went. Are you finding it easier to keep up with food or harder?

9:06Josh Clark:Easier because I'm cooking a lot. Geez, I'm buzz marketing again, but, you know, I'm just having one of those Mike's Mighty Goods for lunch, which is very low in calories. Yeah, it's really good too. And I, you know, I'm just tracking the calories and it's, it's alcohol. That's the problem right now.

9:21Chuck Bryant:I gotcha. Yeah, I've been doing one or two nights a week tops, and then a couple of nights. I've been pretty good now that I think about it. It's good. Yeah, because this has been fairly stressful, but I haven't been stressed eating too much, so okay. Anyway, peanut butter. Here to me, Chuck, early on, we happen upon the fact of the podcast, if you ask me. This was very jarring, if you'll forgive the pun, that peanut butter outside of the United States, in a lot of different countries is looked upon as very weird and gross in much the same way that we Americans tend to think of like Vegemite. People like the British, the Chinese, other countries do not think peanut butter is particularly good.

10:08Chuck Bryant:They think it's a little nasty. And that just blew me away to read that.

10:13Josh Clark:Yeah, I'd want to talk to some people before I'd let some internet website tell me that people think peanut butter's gross.

10:20Chuck Bryant:Some website push your brain around?

10:23Josh Clark:Yeah, I'd like to talk to some folks about that.

10:25Chuck Bryant:But at the very least, even if they don't think it's gross, it is an all-American thing. Like even countries that do enjoy it, I've read that Australia actually likes it a lot. It's an American concoction, so much so that like, it might be the most American concoction there is, to tell you the truth.

10:45Josh Clark:Yeah, I mean, you make a good point here. You put this stuff together that mac and cheese came from Europe, hot dogs came from Europe. Sort of hamburgers, even though I would argue that the hamburger as we know it is pretty American.

10:58Chuck Bryant:Sure.

10:59Josh Clark:But peanut butter, just us as far as modern times go.

11:03Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I think that the Inca in the 15th century used to grind peanuts into a paste and then that was it. until the 19th century when one of our buddies who's going to make a cameo later got his hands on the idea. But yeah, it was an American invention, except it was actually Canadian, as we'll see. But for the most part, people think of it as all American. And to talk about peanut butter, Chuck, we kind of have to talk about peanuts. There's really no way around it. Believe me, I don't want to, but we have to.

11:36Josh Clark:I think you mean goobers.

11:39Chuck Bryant:Have you ever heard somebody outside of TV call them that?

11:43Josh Clark:Not really, but I knew it was a thing, but I don't, it's not in the just daily nomenclature of my crowd

11:50Chuck Bryant:But it is, it's supposedly like a southern and I guess an antiquated southern word for peanut, a goober or a goober pea

11:58Josh Clark:Yeah, I've heard goober and that old song about the Raisinets, goober, well goober's is also a candy, right?

12:03Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and there's Smucker's Goobers, which is peanut butter and jelly mixed together in a jar. It's actually good. Is it? Yeah, even as a kid, I was like, this is going to be gross. And then I tried it. I was like, not bad. Not bad, Smucker's.

12:19Josh Clark:See, I'm pretty discerning with my jams and jellies. So that's for another day, though.

12:24Chuck Bryant:You would not like this.

12:25Josh Clark:I probably wouldn't.

12:26Chuck Bryant:You wouldn't like Smucker's. And if you're at all discerning, you would not like it. All right.

12:31Josh Clark:So peanuts is a, it's a legume. It's also called a ground nut or an earth nut. And just like a lentil or a pea, it is a little legume. It's not a nut. No, I'm a big fan of peanuts though. I like to eat them pretty much any way you can slice it from boiled to straight up raw out of the shell. Like I'm honey roasted, salted and roasted. Sure. And certainly in peanut butter.

12:56Chuck Bryant:So Momo and I go and visit squirrels whenever we can, when we go on walks, and we always take peanuts. And I read you're supposed to take roasted, unsalted peanuts, so we get, like, big bags of those. And if there's no squirrels out, I get to eat all the peanuts. Oh, yeah? Yeah, Mo will give me a look like, those are not for you, but they usually end up in my tummy anyway.

13:18Josh Clark:You ever seen a squirrel stick one of those in his mouth sideways?

13:21Chuck Bryant:Yep. I have. Darn cute. Yeah, we'll like all shell them and then throw like the actual peanut and the squirrel somehow will know that there's supposed to be another one coming because they'll very frequently put one in his cheek and then like be like, okay, toss me the other one. Then I'll take that run off and like eat it with his two little hands. It's really adorable.

13:41Josh Clark:Right. Or they might stick around to see if it's one of the rare three bangers.

13:45Chuck Bryant:Right. Which is just, that's a good squirrel day right there. All right.

13:50Josh Clark:So these things are legumes and we think they originated in South America. You mentioned Peru, even though we cannot prove that through the fossil record. But they have found evidence in the archaeological culture from Peru from about 7 ,600 years ago. And it was sort of one of these things where they found the fact that they were farming this stuff. And then when you see it in like artwork and pottery and stuff like that, then, you know, it's sort of a thing.

14:18Chuck Bryant:Yeah, right. The peanut has arrived when it shows up on pottery, you know?

14:23Josh Clark:For real.

14:24Chuck Bryant:They've also found them, I guess, entombed with mummies from the Inca and the Aztecs, which makes sense because when the conquistadors arrived, the Spanish and the Portuguese, to South America and Central America, they found peanuts being grown as far north as Mexico. But I think the first place they encountered them was actually in the Caribbean. And they took them back with them. They took them to Spain, and Spain passed them along to the rest of Europe and the Philippines and China. The Portuguese took it back again to Europe, but also to India and Africa. And peanuts started to be farmed all over the world.

15:02Chuck Bryant:The world loves peanuts. It's just not necessarily peanut butter that they're crazy about. And then in a really kind of weird, surprising twist, the peanuts were re-exported back to the Americas from Africa as part of the West African slave trade. And actually that word goober, that southern word goober, they think comes from a Congolese word or Congo with a K word, nguba. Yeah.

15:29Josh Clark:Pretty surprising. Sure. Goober, nguba, close enough.

15:33Chuck Bryant:Yeah, but to think like the peanut, you think of the peanut as, as just American as it comes and then even as Georgia as it comes. But the idea that it wouldn't have been here had it not been for the importation of African slaves that reintroduced the peanut to the Americas, that's a pretty circuitous and weird route for it to take.

15:52Josh Clark:Yeah. And Africa still grows about 25 % of the peanuts in the world. We're just below that at about 21 % here in the States. and it took all the way to 1842 that we started growing them commercially in the U.S. And Virginia is where it first started for oil and food and to substitute out for cocoa. And it just wasn't like a – it was kind of like for people that didn't have the means to buy something better or maybe feed it to your animals or something like that.

16:22Chuck Bryant:Yeah, it was good for livestock and the poverty-stricken basically was who were expected to eat peanuts at the time.

16:30Josh Clark:That's right.

16:30Chuck Bryant:It's just like Lobster. Have you ever read Consider the Lobster? Oh, man. I want to say David Lee Roth so bad, but I know it's not his name at all. Who wrote Consider the Lobster?

16:45Josh Clark:I've never heard of that, but I know about the lobster.

16:48Chuck Bryant:Who was End of Tour about that movie? Oh, David Foster Wallace. Oh, sure, sure. Yeah. He wrote this really great magazine article once called Consider the Lobster. It's good. But in it, he explains that it used to be considered a food fit only for the poor, basically. I guess peanuts were considered the same.

17:07Josh Clark:That's right. You know, there were sea spiders.

17:12Chuck Bryant:Yeah, or the cockroaches of the sea. Disgusting. It is kind of gross when you think of it like that. And apparently there was a law that said that you could only feed so much lobster to patients in mental asylums at the time or else it became abusive. Oh, wow.

17:30Josh Clark:Yeah. They didn't know. Did they try them on a hot dog bun with mayonnaise?

17:34Chuck Bryant:So one of the reasons why the peanut was viewed as such a lowly crop was that it was, again, it was used for oil and which, I mean, this wasn't necessarily just cooking oil. They would use it to lubricate machinery, that kind of stuff. So the idea of eating the same thing that your machinery lube came from was probably not super appetizing. But it was also like you would get just basically trash when you got a bag of peanuts. because there was no easy way to harvest it, stem them, clean them, and prepare them for basically general consumption. So again, you could just dump it into a trough and feed it to your livestock, or you could spend a lot of time trying to separate it, or you could just be like, I'm not messing with this.

18:16Chuck Bryant:And for a long time, they didn't mess with it, actually.

18:19Josh Clark:Yeah, when the Civil War happened, the Union soldiers got their hands on some of our Southern peanuts, and they said, these are delicious. And both armies ate a lot of peanuts. and then when the circus rolled around with P.T. Barnum, Hugh Jackman, they started selling peanuts there, hot roasted peanuts. And especially in the cheap seats, they become known as the peanut gallery and that's where that phrase came from, which is kind of interesting.

18:44Chuck Bryant:Yeah, because apparently if they didn't like what they saw, they would toss their peanuts that they were eating at the stage. So that's where peanut gallery came from.

18:52Josh Clark:Yeah, and then you've got them on the street corners. You've got them at baseball games. Peanuts are starting to get a little traction as a snack, but they were still not, it was still hard to get like really good quality peanuts because like you said, the way they were being harvested at the time by hand, it was just tough to do.

19:11Chuck Bryant:And then, so two African-Americans around the turn of the last century stepped up and basically said, we're going to make the peanut what it is today. So one, obviously, was George Washington Carver, who's known as basically the father of the peanut, who actually, contrary to popular belief, did not invent peanut butter. But he did come up with more than 300 different ways to use the peanut. And I never realized, like, why he was so bonkers for peanuts. But one of the reasons he was trying to make the peanut or establish it as a prominent crop was because the South had depleted its soil so badly from growing cotton for so long.

19:52Chuck Bryant:And then, you know, at the worst of this, there was a boll weevil outbreak that just ruined the rest of the cotton crop. So the South really needed something to replace cotton. And George Washington Carver helped introduce and popularize peanuts and say, not only can you eat these things, look at all this other stuff you can make out of them.

20:12Josh Clark:That's right. And there was another guy around the same time named Ben Hicks, Mr. Benjamin Hicks. He was from Virginia, which we already talked about, being a big peanut state. And he invented a gas-powered machine for cleaning and stemming these things. He got it patented like a lot of – well, it still goes on, I guess, with the little guy and their patents. Big Farm came around, and a farm equipment company challenged him. He actually had to go to court but won the case in 1901. and this picker was a big, big deal in modernizing peanut farming. And all of a sudden, you could get really good peanuts a lot quicker.

20:53Josh Clark:It doesn't take as many hands or man hours or person hours. And the demand for peanuts for oil, for eating them, and peanut butter and candy all just kind of went through the roof at that point.

21:04Chuck Bryant:Yeah, yeah. Because you could get your hands on good peanuts. They were widely available and they were just delicious. Everyone saw, finally, how great peanuts are. But not peanut butter yet. And I propose, Charles, that we take a break and then come back and really dig into the peanut butter.

21:22Josh Clark:Let's do it.

21:23Chuck Bryant:Okay.

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24:40Chuck Bryant:Okay, so like I said, the Inca probably had us beat as far as the invention of peanut butter went. But it was actually a Canadian who they think was probably the actual inventor of modern peanut butter. a guy who I had never heard of before. His name was Marcellus Gilmore Edson Wallace. I'm kidding about the last part. I knew that was coming. Marcellus Gilmore Edson. You just can't say the name Marcellus and not follow it up with Wallace somewhere, you know?

25:14Josh Clark:It really has become like peanut butter and jelly. Yeah, it is.

25:17Chuck Bryant:Very nice.

25:18Josh Clark:So he patented a paste made of peanuts in 1884, which was described by him in his patent as at room temperature having a consistency like that of butter, lard, or ointment. Eat it. Try this. It sounds gross, but when you think about peanut butter, that's kind of about right. Yeah. He added sugar to stabilize it a little bit. And this was kind of like the first modern peanut butter that we think of as peanut butter. It sold for about six cents a pound, which is a pretty good price.

25:49Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and if you, from what I can tell just reading about it, if you tried it today, you'd be like, yeah, it's peanut butter. Whereas if you tried some of the other stuff, you'd be like, oh, man, that's the artisan peanut butter. It's punishing. And the other stuff was first developed. So it's interesting to me that there's, in the first try, right out of the gate, the guy who invents peanut butter basically invents the modern version of it. And then it takes a big step backwards or sideways, I guess you can say, depending on your viewpoint, when our buddy Dr. John Harvey Kellogg comes along. And you'll remember from the live show we did on the Kellogg brothers, he invented nut butters, and in particular peanut butter.

26:32Chuck Bryant:He's considered one of the main inventors of peanut butter.

26:36Josh Clark:Well, yeah, it was right up his alley because I think that might be my favorite live show we've done, actually.

26:42Chuck Bryant:Oh, yeah? I think so. PR was my favorite.

26:45Josh Clark:PR? I knew you were going to say that.

26:47Chuck Bryant:You did. Yeah, that was a good one. You did. I think those are my top two. What about Pintos, man? What about D.B. Cooper?

26:56Josh Clark:Those might be the first four that I would name. What else have we done? Malls, bars. We did the secret one that is still supposedly on tour, but on hiatus right now.

27:09Chuck Bryant:I think that's it. I think that's all.

27:11Josh Clark:Well, I'm going to go with John Harvey Kellogg because he, if you listen to that one, And he was very big on chewing food until it was the consistency of peanut butter, basically. And so peanut butter comes along and he's like, well, this is perfect because you don't have to chew it like that. It's already like that. It'll just glide right through your system and come out as delicious peanut butter poop.

27:34Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and it won't poison your entire body and you won't have to spend any time in the electric light bath. That's right. Or the kneading machine. so dr kellogg creates basically what we would recognize today as the um the artisan version of peanut butter it's just ground up peanuts that form a paste and apparently that's just a natural thing that happens like if you put roasted peanuts in a food processor it's going to turn like gritty and everything but if you just keep going it eventually reaches this point this threshold where that grit turns into this oily paste like peanut butter, like an ointment, like Marcellus Wallace would call it.

28:16Chuck Bryant:And that's basically what John Harvey Kellogg did and served at Battle Creek. But most of the people who would have been exposed to peanut butter would not have tried John Kellogg's because, you know, that sanitarium was really expensive. And it was for the wealthy. It was for celebrities. So most people experience peanut butter at one of two places. And Chuck, I really found out in researching this that the history of peanut butter is super murky. It's like a spoonful of peanut butter stirred up in a glass of water kind of murky, right? Gross. It is kind of gross. where it's just not entirely clear who did what when, whose contribution has been disproportionately mythologized.

29:08Chuck Bryant:But from what I can tell, John Harvey Kellogg is definitely one of the fathers of peanut butter. Mr. Marcellus was one as well. And then it gets a little murkier after that. is so much so that people say, well, peanut butter made its debut at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair. And then other people are like, no, no, that's way wrong. It made its debut at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair. And I can find good, credible sources that say either one. So I have no idea where it made its debut. I believe it was sold for sure at the St. Louis World's Fair in 1904. And that a guy named C.H. Summers sold like$20 ,000 worth of peanut butter as snack items there, but that the people who ate it there had probably already been exposed to peanut butter and liked it.

30:03Chuck Bryant:It might not have been something that was part of like their everyday thing. They weren't standing in their pantry eating it off of a spoon, but they had probably had it before. And this was like a real treat for them to experience it. It wasn't like debuted in 1904 from what I can tell.

30:18Josh Clark:Right. Well, regardless of who introduced it initially, By 1907, thanks to companies like Heinz and Beech Nut, they were selling 34 million pounds of peanut butter up from just 2 million in 1899. So over an eight-year period. That's a pretty big increase. And the soldiers come into play again. It wasn't just the Civil War and World Wars I and II. And I've had peanut butter K-rations before. Really? Uh-huh. My dad used to get that stuff a lot when I was a kid for camping and stuff. at the Army Navy store. So it became a big part of your Army rations in the armed forces because it had a lot of protein.

30:57Josh Clark:It was good sustenance. You could make a PB &J, and that was pretty comforting if you were on the front lines or in a trench in World War I.

31:04Chuck Bryant:Yeah, supposedly they popularized the PB &J the troops did.

31:09Josh Clark:That's right. And thank them for that.

31:12Chuck Bryant:Oh, I will. I'll salute the troops for that one.

31:15Josh Clark:But it was pretty regional at the time in the early 20th century. It didn't travel that great. And they finally led – I mentioned hydrogenized earlier. It was this hydrogenation – is that right?

31:29Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

31:30Josh Clark:That really led to the big three coming about with the industrialization of peanut butter production and three gentlemen named Peter Pan, Skippy, and Jif, which I was curious about Jif, where that came from. And all I found was they said it's easy to spell, easy to say, and easy to remember.

31:54Chuck Bryant:It's true. All three of those. Check, check, and check.

31:56Josh Clark:And it had no meaning beyond that, basically.

31:58Chuck Bryant:Really? I would have guessed it had something to do with, you know, like doing it in a GIF or a Jiffy or something, huh?

32:04Josh Clark:I mean, who knows? I mean, you've got to be in the room, I guess, to know where the seed came from. But they just said it was simple and super easy. And that was kind of the end of that story.

32:15Chuck Bryant:Good night. I wanted more. No, I'm with you. I do, too. So I'm kind of mad right now, but we got to press on. With hydrogenation, right? Because there's this guy named John Krampner, and he wrote a book called Creamy and Crunchy, all about peanut butter. And he basically points to that as saying, like, that was the turning point for peanut butter, maybe even tied for first with its invention, was the introduction of hydrogenation, which takes oils that are liquid at room temperature and adds hydrogen in a catalyst, usually like powdered nickel, and those bonds become infused or saturated with hydrogen.

32:59Chuck Bryant:And so they stick together a lot more easily. So those liquid oils have a more stable solid state at room temperature. So you go from like peanut butter with oil on top to peanut butter that doesn't have oil on top, but the oil's mixed into the mixture and it stays that way even on the store shelf, which people love because, I mean, you know from eating artisan peanut butter, it's kind of a pain to stir it up.

33:27Josh Clark:Yeah, I mean, that initial stir is a little dodgy because it's so close to the lid.

33:33Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

33:34Josh Clark:But you just have to have the right spoon, take your time, don't be in a rush. And, you know, shelf life stability is super important with peanut butter because only monsters put their peanut butter in the refrigerator.

33:47Chuck Bryant:Who does that? Who? Point them out to me.

33:49Josh Clark:Monsters.

33:50Chuck Bryant:Like you've met somebody who's done that before?

33:53Josh Clark:No, I think it was in a Judge John Hodgman listener mail at one point.

33:56Chuck Bryant:Oh, man.

33:58Josh Clark:I don't think it was a major case, but I think it was one of their listener mail ones.

34:03Chuck Bryant:Okay.

34:04Josh Clark:But totally think it should be on the shelf. That's where it belongs. Right. Although I will say if you mix a little PB &J with a natural kind and you put it in the fridge because you've had your two bites and you made too much, the next day it is interesting. It's more like a Reese's cup consistency. It's kind of hard. It makes for a nice little snack, but it's certainly not anything that you can spread on bread.

34:26Chuck Bryant:Right, right. Well, that's the other thing, too, is if the oils are mixed into the solids, it forms this creamier substance that makes it way easier to spread, which moms love, right? Sure. And then the other thing it does too is with all of those hydrogen atoms linked on to the fat chains, the lipids, there's not all these unused or open bonds that an oxygen atom can come along and bond to and oxidize the peanut butter, which creates peroxide, which gives it a rancid taste. So hydrogenation not only made peanut butter less liquidy, more creamy, it also made it last longer, like sitting on the shelf before it was sold and used.

35:12Chuck Bryant:It wouldn't turn rancid nearly as fast. So it was a big deal. The problem is that took peanut butter, which is actually kind of healthy with a monounsaturated fat, that liquid oil, and turned it into saturated or partially saturated fat, which is really tough on the old ticker.

35:30Josh Clark:Yeah, that's why I stay away from that stuff. I mean, it's so good. But yeah, I made the switch many years ago.

35:37Chuck Bryant:Good for you, Jack.

35:39Josh Clark:Yeah, the hydrogenated outsold natural for the first time in 42 and accounts for about 80 % of the current market. Peter Pan, believe it or not, I don't think I've ever had Peter Pan. It's not bad. Unless it was just at a friend's house or something. I don't think we ever had it in our house.

35:55Chuck Bryant:Peter Pan makes a natural one too. I'm making air quotes like Jif does. I think they all do now. It might even be better than Jif's natural version.

36:06Josh Clark:I think Emily likes the Smucker's natural.

36:09Chuck Bryant:Uh-huh.

36:11Josh Clark:But I also got some, I can't remember the brand. It's one of the other natural brands. They're all pretty good, I think.

36:18Chuck Bryant:Okay.

36:19Josh Clark:So 1928 was when Peter Pan rolled out and was the first, which I didn't know, was the first major brand. It was the biggest seller at the time. It used that partial hydrogenation process that was patented by a guy named Joseph Rosefield from Kentucky. And then that's where Skippy came from. Peter Pan's parent company said, I want to cut your licensing fee. He said, I'm done with you and I'm going to go out and I'm going to make Skippy on my own. And by the end of his career, he had 10 patents, not just for peanut butter, but relating to food and he was just kind of like Chevy Chase in vacation movies.

36:59Josh Clark:He was a food scientist.

37:01Chuck Bryant:Yeah. Well, was it the thing that he learned to coat a flake with that he used on the sled? Oh, I don't know. Some sort of silicon or something. A non-nutritional, oh, I can't remember. I'll figure it out. No need to email everyone. No need to email.

37:17Josh Clark:No, I want to hear. I want every email about this.

37:20Chuck Bryant:I think it was called a non-nutritional coating is what he called it. But yes, he was very much like that. But he was also way, way, way better than anything Chevy Chase could ever be because he was a really great boss. He paid his workers really well. And in creating the Skippy brand, he broke off from this kind of this corporate overlord that he worked for. It was keeping him under his thumb and then trying to shortchange him and said, you know what? by creating Skippy, I'm going to not only challenge you, Peter Pan, I'm going to become the best-selling peanut butter there is from like 1950 to 1980.

38:00Chuck Bryant:Like Skippy was it. And I just missed the Skippy train. So I'm wondering like if I had been, you know, born in 1970, if I would have been raised on Skippy, but I came along at the GIF era, really.

38:12Josh Clark:Yeah, he said, in your face. And they said, I love peanut butter in my face. And he went, oh, I got to think of a new comeback.

38:19Chuck Bryant:You know, Chuck, one thing that's always bothered me about Peter Pan is, do you remember that jingle where it's like, eat some peanut butter anytime you can? It's like, oh, that's nice. And then they follow it up with, but only if it's Peter Pan. Like, it's got kind of this, like, if I can't have you, no one can psychotic mentality to it.

38:40Josh Clark:Yeah, I never heard that song, so I never really thought about that.

38:44Chuck Bryant:You didn't watch the television in the 1990s?

38:47Josh Clark:I did. I don't remember that one though. But I mean, I was in the nineties. I was in college, so I probably wasn't, I don't even think we had cable. I didn't watch much TV in college.

38:57Chuck Bryant:Gotcha.

38:58Josh Clark:So Skippy is doing great. Peter Pan is just like, well, I guess I'll just have to be second banana. And Skippy and Jeff said, how do you like being third banana? Because that's where you're headed. That same year in 1955, This is when Rosefield sold Skippy to Best Foods. Procter & Gamble bought Big Top Peanut from William T. Young, also of Kentucky.

39:23Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

39:24Josh Clark:And then they became Jif, and they held that brand until 2001, 2002.

39:31Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I did not know that. That's right. But wait, 2001, 2002.

39:37Josh Clark:That's when they sold to Smuckers.

39:39Chuck Bryant:Oh, okay. But Jif is still the number one brand today, right?

39:42Josh Clark:As far as I know.

39:43Chuck Bryant:Okay. Yeah, that's my understanding, too. I thought you were saying, like, it was the number one brand until then. But, yeah, from, I think, 1980 to today, it's number one.

39:54Josh Clark:Yeah, and they got a lot of, I think they all do, but Jif alone has 15 different kinds of peanut butter, which is kind of nuts. If you look at their list, they've got all kinds of different crazy peanut butters out there now.

40:06Chuck Bryant:Well, nuts is just one variety. Well, they all have peanuts in it, but, yeah. Well, they have a good almond butter, too.

40:15Josh Clark:Yeah, I can get down with some almond butter.

40:18Chuck Bryant:You know what, buddy? I'm going to buy you some. When we see each other again, I'm going to be brandishing a jar of Jif almond butter for you.

40:25Josh Clark:You know what's not good?

40:27Chuck Bryant:What? Is, you know, you can't take peanut butter sandwiches into classrooms anymore.

40:32Josh Clark:Mm-hmm. Or at least, you know, at my kid's preschool. And, of course, you can't take anything in there anymore because it's closed. But you have to make it with, what do, jeez, I used to chew these things all the time. What do baseball players chew? Sunflower seeds? Chickpeas. Sunflower butter.

40:54Chuck Bryant:That's good, too. I've had that. It's not bad.

40:56Josh Clark:Oh, I do not care for it.

40:58Chuck Bryant:Oh, you don't like it, huh? No. I think it's all right. I guess, wow, I really like basically any kind of butter, including just butter butter.

41:06Josh Clark:Well, yeah, butter's great, but I just cannot get down with the sunflower butter. Is it sunflower? Yeah, sunflower.

41:12Chuck Bryant:Yeah, no, it totally is. And it's definitely, there's a taste of sunflower to it. Like you could have no idea what you were eating and somebody gives it to you and you would be like, that's sunflower butter, isn't it?

41:22Josh Clark:I love sunflower seeds though. That was a big thing in college for a little while. We would sit around and, you know, just put a mouthful of sunflower seeds on our mouth.

41:30Chuck Bryant:Oh, yeah, I remember the sunflower trend quite well. Remember that?

41:33Josh Clark:And you would crack, yeah, you would crack them open with your teeth.

41:36Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

41:36Josh Clark:And you would spit out the shell and then swallow the seed, chew on the seed and swallow it. So I would eat the whole thing. No, you didn't eat the shell.

41:45Chuck Bryant:Yeah, this is, I would eat the whole thing and then I would smoke a whole cigar and inhale it.

41:50Josh Clark:You were a very bad squirrel. And then you would drown your lawn in water. Yeah. And you would sit back and say, I'm doing life just right.

41:58Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I got it all figured out. Would you really eat the shells? Uh-huh. Still do to this day. Really? Yeah, and it's kind of dangerous because every once in a while, there's like one part to it that's just a spear. And it can go right into your gums if you're not careful. So I'm pretty good at it, but every once in a while I'll be like, I think I'm bleeding.

42:20Josh Clark:Well, here's how I eat peanuts when I go to the ball game. I stick the whole peanut in my mouth. Really? Uh-huh, like a squirrel. Okay. And I kind of suck on it for a second and get that salty goodness. and then I crack it open with my teeth and I pull it out of my mouth and then dump the peanuts in and throw away the shells.

42:38Chuck Bryant:And then between every bite, you have to coat your lips with lip balm because it's so dried and cracked by the salt. Maybe.

42:46Josh Clark:It is pretty salty. But the only time I eat peanuts in the shell like that is at a baseball game.

42:50Chuck Bryant:So now I do something similar, but it's with peanut M &Ms. I will like crack the peanut M &M in half and expose the peanut. With your teeth? Yes. and then eat that, the freed chocolate shell side, and then eat the other chocolate shell side from around the peanut, and then I eat the peanut by itself.

43:11Josh Clark:Are you kidding or are you serious?

43:13Chuck Bryant:I'm dead serious. I can't remember the last time I ate a peanut M &M without doing that with every single one.

43:19Josh Clark:All right, here's what I'll do sometimes with peanut M &Ms. Okay. We should just have a side gig where we just talk about our stupid quirks.

43:26Chuck Bryant:We do. It's part of the podcast.

43:29Josh Clark:I put, and sometimes I'll just mal on them like there's no tomorrow, but sometimes I will, and this helps me eat fewer of them because I will pop one or two in my mouth and I'll just let them sit there and marinate in my saliva.

43:41Chuck Bryant:Oh, yeah, yeah.

43:42Josh Clark:And swirl them around. And then that candy coating kind of melts away a little bit and makes it like a really soft little crunch.

43:48Chuck Bryant:Yep. I know what you mean.

43:49Josh Clark:You know that move?

43:50Chuck Bryant:Yep. It's really good. I do that too, but usually I'm a little less patient than that. It's every once in a while. Maybe when I'm like, you know, I have a whole Tupperware bowl full of peanut M &Ms, I might go crazy like that.

44:04Josh Clark:All right. So let's – should we take a break or should we wait a second?

44:07Chuck Bryant:Yeah. Let's do that. Let's take a break.

44:13Chuck Bryant:Learning things with Chuck and Chuck. Shining all the things. Stuff you should know.

44:25Chuck Bryant:In Orlando, meetings reach another level, thanks to a growing list of award-winning restaurants, a world-class convention center, a great hotel community, easy access through the airport, and of course, the weather. Andrew Moyes, VP of Fan Expo HQ, had this to say about Orlando. Luxury hotels, Michelin restaurants, easy access through the airport, all those key things feed into the proper executive experience. And while you may know Orlando for its attractions, Industries like healthcare, aerospace, and advanced manufacturing make it a hub for cutting-edge businesses. And that's what makes Orlando unbelievably real.

44:59Chuck Bryant:Learn more at OrlandoForBusiness.com.

45:04Josh Clark:All right, if you've been putting off car shopping because it sounds like a whole thing, buying your car online on AutoTrader makes it way easier, like almost easier than ordering your coffee easier.

45:15Chuck Bryant:Really? Yeah, you can search through tons of cars online, compare prices, check out financing and trade-in options all from your couch or your office or wherever. And if you want to start online but still hit the dealership for a test drive, you can do that too. Really? Yeah, that's what's great about it.

45:30Josh Clark:It's flexible, everybody. You can start online, finish at the dealer. Start at the dealer, finish online. Your info stays with you so you're not starting the process from scratch.

45:39Chuck Bryant:And unlike other sites, you're working with local dealers. So you've got real people helping behind the scenes. And when you're ready, you can pick your car up or have it delivered.

45:48Josh Clark:Really. So whether you know exactly what you want or you're still scrolling trying to find out if you want heated cup holders or more horsepower, Autotrader's got options that fit how you want to buy. Buy your car online on Autotrader. Really.

46:07Chuck Bryant:You might know Michelin for its tires or maybe even its stars, but there's so much more to the story. Michelin isn't just a tire company. It's an innovation company. From connected mobility solutions to high-tech materials, innovation fuels everything Michelin does.

46:21Josh Clark:That's right. And in 2025, Michelin was recognized as a most innovative company in automotive by Fast Company. It's all part of a big-picture vision Michelin calls Michelin in Motion, putting a vision of innovation at the heart of everything it does.

46:34Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and get this. Michelin's going way beyond tires. Michelin isn't just making better tires. They're helping build a better future. Why this innovation matters? Well, Michelin is taking on one of the toughest mobility challenges out there, space. Michelin is developing an airless wheel for lunar exploration. Wow. The Michelin Lunar Airless Wheel was named Concept of the Year, recognizing Michelin's technological expertise in the most extreme environments at the 2026 Tire Technology Expo.

47:01Josh Clark:That's right, and you can learn more at www.Michelinman.com slash y dash Michelin slash innovation.

47:26All right.

47:28Josh Clark:So where we left off was Jif was killing it. You and I have very weird eating habits.

47:34Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

47:34Josh Clark:And Jif starts killing it. They start putting sugar and molasses in there. Everyone else followed suit. And finally in the 1960s, the FDA stood up and said, hold on a minute, guys. This stuff you're calling peanut butter is junk food now. There's one leading brand. I'm not going to name names. I think it was Jif. It was only 75 % actual peanuts. He's like, so you got to start putting 95 % peanuts in the whole thing. The peanut butter lobby said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How about 87 %? And they said, we're the FDA. we meet people in the middle. Let's settle on 90 % peanuts and peanut butter.

48:13Josh Clark:And since 1971, that's been the standard.

48:16Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I think like this went on for a dozen years. There's a really interesting article on today I found out called the Momentous Peanut Butter Hearings. It's definitely worth reading, but it just was nuts how, literally nuts, how long this went on for. And then finally, it's just kind of heartening that the FDA was like, no, 90%, that's as low as we're going, make sure that your peanut butter has 90 % peanuts. Good day to you, sir. And that was that finally. And it became enforced in 1972. And still today, there is a federal legal definition for what constitutes peanut butter. And one of the first things is it has to have 90 % peanuts in it.

49:00Josh Clark:That's right, because that is still the standard. If it is smooth, It has to be very fine with an even texture and no hint of grainy peanuts at all. If it's medium, you can have a little grain to it, but nothing larger than one sixteenth of an inch in dimension. And then all bets are off if you're crunchy. I don't know who says chunky, but it's definitely crunchy.

49:25Chuck Bryant:Chunky, yeah, that's like a type of Campbell's soup.

49:28Josh Clark:So crunchy can be larger than one sixteenth. And I guess, I mean, they're all about the same size. I'd be curious to see if there are any kind of half-sized peanuts, if it gets that chunky.

49:41Chuck Bryant:Oh, yeah. Like larger than a sixteenth of an inch?

49:44Josh Clark:Yeah, like a half of a peanut.

49:46Chuck Bryant:People would be like, it's too chunky.

49:47Josh Clark:I can't take it. Maybe. I mean, that's like candy bar level.

49:51Chuck Bryant:It is. It is. So, Chuck, what you've just said is the federal government's definition of the different varieties of peanut butter, as far as they're concerned. And I don't know if you said it or not, but that guy, Joseph Rosefield, who was the founder of Skippy, he actually created chunky, sorry, crunchy peanut butter.

50:11Josh Clark:We both said crunchy and now we're both saying chunky.

50:13Chuck Bryant:I know, it's kind of stuck in my head, but he's the guy who, if you like chunky peanut butter, first of all, shame on you. But secondly, thank Joseph Rosefield for that because he came up with it, I think in the 50s.

50:25Josh Clark:Yeah, like I said, I like it all. There is not a kind of peanut butter that I won't eat. I think it's all really good.

50:31Chuck Bryant:So then I think also this kind of demonstrates just how seriously Americans take peanut butter. The USDA goes on to say there are other qualities that make a peanut butter either grade A, grade B, or substandard peanut butter. And it's things like color. The color has to match certain color samples that you can only obtain from a company called Agtron Inc. of Sparks, Nevada. This is in the 1972 law that you have to write to Agtron and say, can you please send me the peanut butter color standards because I need to make sure that my peanut butter matches the USDA's standards for color of peanut butter.

51:17Josh Clark:And they say, dude, they're online. Get with it. Why are you writing me a letter? Right.

51:22Chuck Bryant:That's a really good point. And you'd email or you'd write back like, I don't know. can you please send me the website URL? And then they would. But when you get this color standard, you can't just look at it wherever. You have to look at it at a light with a color temperature of about 7 ,500 Kelvin plus or minus 250 Kelvin or something equal to a moderately, partly cloudy day. That's the government's standard for judging the color of peanut butter.

51:52Josh Clark:All I can think of now is somebody writing a handwritten letter to someone asking for a URL. Someone with a ballpoint pen spelling out HTTPS colon slash slash.

52:06Chuck Bryant:I looked up Agtron Inc. They're still around and they are on point, man. They've been in business for, I think about a century, but they are all about like food analysis. If you're a coffee roaster or a barista or something, you can take their online class. I think it's online. It's like a day long class that really teaches you all the science behind the coffee you're selling and roasting and grinding. It's a really interesting company, it looks like. But if you start making peanut butter, you need to write a letter to Agtron Inc. asking for their URL.

52:40Josh Clark:And they will send you a laminated sheet and a manila envelope.

52:44Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

52:45Josh Clark:So if you're talking peanut butter in the United States, uh about half of the edible use of peanuts is from peanut butter um obviously peanut butter is in a ton of it's one of my favorite parts of candy bars and stuff like that i'm a sucker for any peanut butter ice creams peanut butter candy bars it's just i can't get enough of that combination i'm totally with you buddy which by the way joseph rosefield was uh the skippy guy was the guy who came up with that peanut butter and chocolate combo before reese's did uh but The National Peanut Board estimates that it takes about 540 peanuts to make up one of those 12-ounce jars, which is a lot of peanuts.

53:26Josh Clark:That kind of surprised me. It was more than I thought.

53:28Chuck Bryant:Yeah, sit there and shell peanuts until you reach 540 individual peanuts, and you will have a sudden appreciation for your peanut butter. You know what I mean?

53:36Josh Clark:For sure. But, of course, machines do that. But, yeah.

53:39Chuck Bryant:Well, if it's artisan, no. No, somebody wearing like a calico sarong is doing it with by hand in Vermont. That's what I think Vermont people are like. Yeah. I think that's my conception. Prove me wrong, Vermont.

54:01Josh Clark:So in 2009, we're talking about health aspects. There's a couple of parts to the health of it, of whether or not it's just good for you, which we'll get to. But also there have been a couple of peanut butter incidents throughout the years, in recent years, that have scared people off from peanut butter a little bit.

54:19Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

54:19Josh Clark:In 2009 was the second one. There were 500 people who got sick and eight people died from eating peanut butter from a plant in Blakely, Georgia that was pretty gross and not maintained well. I remember that, don't you? I remember both of them. The other one was in 2007, and that was Salmonella and Peter Pan and Great Value, both owned by ConAgra, and that got about 600 and change sick, but nobody died.

54:49Chuck Bryant:Luckily.

54:50Josh Clark:But I remember both of those. It was a big deal because peanut butter is so ubiquitous.

54:55Chuck Bryant:So there's also, I didn't realize this until I started researching it, there's something called aflatoxins. Have you heard of them?

55:05Josh Clark:I think I did back when all this stuff happened, or maybe not, but I have heard of it.

55:10Chuck Bryant:So there's a mold called aspergillus that grows on peanuts because peanuts are grown underground, right? And the aspergillus can produce a toxin called aflatoxins. And apparently humans are pretty much immune to its initial effects or its short-term effects. but we have no idea what happens if you eat aflatoxins over the course of a lifetime. What happens? And apparently there's studies of humans that found that it's been linked to certain types of cancer, potentially birth defects, cognitive disabilities, all sorts of horrible stuff. And peanut butter producers say, well, we get at least 89 % of the aflatoxins out just by processing peanuts.

56:00Chuck Bryant:You say, well, what about the other 11 %? And they're like, have some Peter Pan and forget your troubles. That's right. So there is like a real risk of something bad happening to you, whether it's a poisoning or not. But a lot of people are like, even if it's pure peanut butter, it's still not healthy for you.

56:22Josh Clark:Yeah, I mean, the major brands that are sugary and hydrogenated certainly aren't good for you. If you're going to the farmer's market and getting those peanuts ground right in front of your face, it's not terrible. It's got a lot of nutrition. It's got a lot of antioxidants. We're talking – this is 100 grams of this stuff. You've got 45 % RDA of vitamin E, 67 % of vitamin B3, 67 % – I'm sorry, 73 % of manganese, and 39 % of magnesium. Yeah. So it's got a lot of good stuff in there. It's got a lot of calories too. That's about 600 calories if you're eating 100 grams worth. But if it's, you know, I mean, 100 grams is a lot.

57:10Chuck Bryant:No, it is a tremendous amount. The other thing is too is if you're eating that artisan peanut butter, that Kraft peanut butter, the non-hydrogenated, I guess I should say, peanut butter, the oils and the fats in it are actually good for you. The monounsaturated fat is the kind that's good for your heart. It's that saturated stuff that becomes shelf-stable. That's the stuff that can build up as plaque in your arterial walls and cause heart attacks and strokes and that kind of thing. But the natural peanut butter actually does the opposite. It helps your cholesterol levels.

57:46Josh Clark:That's right, which is great.

57:48Chuck Bryant:It's basically just really calorie-dense. Like if you're trying to lose weight, it's a good idea to shy away from peanut butter. But if you're eating natural peanut butter, it's not like a non-nutritious food. It's actually pretty nutritious. It's just calorie dense.

58:02Josh Clark:Right. And if you're trying to lose weight and you opt for a spoonful of peanut butter and honey rather than a pint of Ben and Jerry's, then you're definitely doing the right thing.

58:12Chuck Bryant:For sure, man. For sure. One thing, though, that has, you know, strikes fear in a lot of people, like you were saying in your daughter's preschool, you can't even bring a peanut butter sandwich in there anymore. is the rise of the peanut allergy. Like there's a survey that was conducted in the 80s, the 90s, and the 2000s. I think the most recent one was in 2008. And they found that between 1997 and 2008, in this national survey of 5 ,300 homes, that the self-reported peanut allergies went from 0.4 % of respondents to 1.4 % of respondents, which 1.4 % doesn't sound like a lot, but that's a huge increase between like 11 years, I guess.

59:02Chuck Bryant:But the thing is, is if you look at other studies, they found that, yes, self-reported rates are on the rise, but doctor-diagnosed rates have held steady. So there seems to be an increase in perception that people have peanut allergies that's not necessarily an increase in actual peanut allergies, which is really strange and bizarre to think of if that's correct.

59:25Josh Clark:Yeah, and I have seen the trend of oral immunotherapy, like feeding your very small child and your baby peanuts a little bit at a time to ensure or hopefully ensure that they won't be stricken with the worst food allergy of all. It's true. The peanut allergy. And there was a study in Israel that had guidelines for early infant feeding, and they said around four to six months of age, just shove a bunch of peanuts in their mouth and see what happens.

59:56Chuck Bryant:And make them chew. And then hit them with the lip balm.

59:59Josh Clark:Yeah, hit them with the lip balm.

1:00:02Chuck Bryant:So one last thing, Chuck, and I couldn't find a place to put it, but it has to be said. There is a phobia called arachibutrophobia. Arachibudoraphobia. Yeah, I think I nailed it that last time. Okay. And it is...

1:00:21Josh Clark:Is that for me? Is that my cue? Yes. It's hard to tell because you're not kicking me under the table.

1:00:26Chuck Bryant:I'm not like doing that series of blinks.

1:00:30Josh Clark:That is the fear of peanut butter getting stuck on the roof of your mouth.

1:00:34Chuck Bryant:That is a true thing.

1:00:36Josh Clark:Which shouldn't be a fear because all you got to do is just keep working the tongue and that peanut butter is going to dislodge and go right down your throat.

1:00:42Chuck Bryant:That's right. Just like John Harvey Kellogg foresaw.

1:00:46Josh Clark:Get a little whole milk and you're all set.

1:00:48Chuck Bryant:Nice, man. Or some Cool Whip. Don't forget the Cool Whip.

1:00:51Josh Clark:I got to try that.

1:00:52Chuck Bryant:I don't know if you should try that. I think I gained 10 pounds in a month just after I discovered that. It's not good for you, man.

1:01:00Josh Clark:Yeah, Cool Whip doesn't last long in our house. We can't keep it here. It's just like it's really hard not to just sort of, oh, I'll just have a little spoonful every now and then.

1:01:09Chuck Bryant:Right. Where did it go? So, yeah, it's like your hair is stuck to your forehead because you put your whole face in the tub.

1:01:16Josh Clark:So good. And it's good frozen, too. I don't know if you ever tried that.

1:01:20Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I've tried it both ways. But if you do want to try it, it's about half and half peanut butter Cool Whip per spoonful.

1:01:27Josh Clark:I'll give it a shot if I'm ever allowed to go to the grocery store again.

1:01:29Chuck Bryant:Yeah, right. Okay, well, I think that's it then for peanut butter unless you have anything else.

1:01:35Josh Clark:We got nothing else.

1:01:35Chuck Bryant:Okay, well, since we said we have nothing else, that means it's time for those who are male.

1:01:42Josh Clark:I'm going to call this early listener that came back as an adult. Love these. Hey, guys, last year I – well, what I really love is people that never stop listening.

1:01:52Chuck Bryant:Right.

1:01:53Josh Clark:But we'll take this. Hey, guys, last year I started getting back into stuff you should know after a long break from the nine to ten days – what does that mean? And a need for an educational podcast on my long drives to Blacksburg, Virginia from the Tidewater area of Virginia.

1:02:10Chuck Bryant:I think they got hit by the aflatoxin

1:02:15Josh Clark:I think he maybe I don't know what he means when I first started listening I was in middle school and I always loved trivia and your podcast helped me annoy other students with random facts about Twinkies and fluoride once I went through church camp it was appreciated I earned the name Random Fact Kid you guys helped me encourage my natural instincts in the world that got me through electrical engineering and also helped me earn free beer at trivia nights because of my tendency to remember obscure knowledge. I even made a friend through the podcast, listener Lucas. I take it that's just Lucas.

1:02:53Josh Clark:The listener is not his first name. I hope so. He was listening to your podcast while driving his bus and I recognized the familiar voices. So I just wanted to say thanks, guys. And that is from listener Daniel. So maybe that's how they met. They had the same first name.

1:03:08Chuck Bryant:Right. They're like, I never thought I would have a brother, but now I do. Daniel and Lucas together. I'm a listener. You got anything else now?

1:03:19Josh Clark:I got nothing at all.

1:03:20Chuck Bryant:Well, if you want to be like listener Daniel and let us know how long you've been listening, we want to hear from you. You can get in touch with us just through a simple email, simple gesture, the gesture of wrapping it up, the gesture of spanking it on the bottom, the gesture of early feeding at peanuts and sending it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.

1:03:44Josh Clark:Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1:04:00Chuck Bryant:If car shopping feels like a whole thing, buying your car online on AutoTrader makes it way easier. Really, shop tons of cars online, compare prices, check financing and trading options from wherever you are. Start online, test drive at the dealer, and finish wherever works for you. Your info stays with you, so there's no starting over. Plus, you're working with local dealers with real people there to help. Buy your car online on AutoTrader. Really.

1:04:30Josh Clark:Hey, quick question for the parents listening right now. When's the last time your kid asked for something and you actually felt good saying yes? Because lately, a lot of families have been hearing the same thing.

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1:05:16Chuck Bryant:In Orlando, meetings reach another level. thanks to a growing list of award-winning restaurants, a world-class convention center, a great hotel community, easy access through the airport, and of course, the weather. Andrew Moyes, VP of Fan Expo HQ, had this to say about Orlando. Often we will bring our entire team to Orlando for the event, and that includes our executive-level team members as well. And we're able to give them a great experience with luxury hotels, special restaurants, all those key things to feed into the proper executive experience. Orlando's easy airport access and close proximity to hotels and transportation make it a top choice for hosting major events.

1:05:54Chuck Bryant:And while you may know Orlando for its attractions, industries like health care, aerospace, and advanced manufacturing make it a hub for cutting-edge businesses. Or in the words of Mr. Moyes, Orlando really can be that destination where you can innovate, collaborate, and look to the future. And that's what makes Orlando unbelievably real. Learn more at OrlandoForBusiness.com.

1:06:17Josh Clark:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.