Selects: What is a Numbers Station?

21:03Chuck Bryant:Yeah. You have to have some sort of contact with somebody. Yeah. So that's one vulnerability of it. Yeah. The thing is, is like depending on how long this is, as many numbers as there are is as long as, is as many transmissions as you can transmit. Yeah. Does that make any sense? No, say it clear. So I said, what up, Chuck? Yeah. That's 11. That uses the first 11 numbers on this key. Right. But say there's 50 ,000 numbers on the key. Well, we have a lot more messages I can send to you that we're going through the pad. Eventually, though, we're going to use up this pad, and we need to meet again so I can give you another randomly generated key.

21:45Chuck Bryant:At Kinko's. That's the vulnerability of it. Well, the other, well, not a failsafe, but the thing that makes it even safer is a lot of times they would send and presumably are still sending dummy messages. so you don't even know if it's real to begin with. And there are only so many person hours you can dedicate as a government to code crackers, and they might be working on a code that's not even real. So you don't even know which transmissions are legit. And that is a proposal by a group called Enigma. And we'll talk about Enigma right after this message because they're pretty awesome.

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24:14Chuck Bryant:So Chuck, we were talking about Enigma. I mentioned Enigma. And Enigma is this group of basically amateur radio people. Shortwave radio enthusiasts, they really get into this. Yes. It's a thing. And they started, this is pre-internet days. I think it was in the 80s, the late 80s, early 90s, that Enigma first came around and kind of coalesced. And Enigma stands for European Numbers Information Gathering and Monitoring Association. And basically it was just a group of these people who had all... And they just happened to spell enigma. Yeah, right. Who had all... I think they reverse engineered that one.

24:53Chuck Bryant:They always do. But they had all kind of started to talk or find each other and say, have you heard this weird transmission? And they're like, yes, I've heard that one. And you should check out this frequency on Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. because it transmits this. And they suddenly realized there's this whole community of people out there. So they set up a newsletter. They started a naming convention, and they started collecting and assigning names to these different things. So, like, E designated an English-speaking numbers station. Right. S was Slavic. V is various, which encapsulates everything from, like, French to Spanish.

25:36Chuck Bryant:Right. And Enigma really took this thing and put it into understandable terms. and they are basically eavesdropping, or they were, eavesdropping on the spy community. Are they not doing that anymore? So Enigma disbanded, I think, in 2000 and then almost immediately another group came and said, well, we're Enigma 2000, we're going to carry this on. And that's pretty fortunate because they were around to put all this on the internet. Yeah, yeah. Before it was like you had to subscribe to newsletters and have a shortwave radio. So now it's like you can just go on the Internet and listen to all sorts of archives of these defunct number stations as well.

26:17Yeah. I mean, they're creepy sounding. Like, it's kind of cool.

26:20Chuck Bryant:I've got one for you. We've talked about it before. Do you remember the Yosemite Sam transmission? Yeah, I'm convinced that that's just a person having fun. Well, let's play it. All right. I'm going to blow you out of river. I like that one. I think it's full of info. It's cool. It's coming from somewhere out in Albuquerque in the desert in New Mexico. Yeah. And it's been going since, what, like 2004? Yeah. And what makes this one interesting is that it's not a code. It is just Yosemite Sam saying that thing. Well, then it's followed by that data burst. Yeah. which they think is some sort of compressed information.

27:07Yeah, see, I don't believe it. I think this is a shortwave enthusiast having a good time.

27:11Chuck Bryant:Well, he's been doing it like it's pretty sophisticated. It does it like over and over again, I think, for 40 seconds and switches to the next frequency and it just goes through the band. Yeah. Then he's got a computer doing it for him. Maybe. If it is just some dude. But either way, I like the use of Yosemite Sam. No, it's cool. But it's pretty, it's exemplar of a numbers station, of a numbers transmission. There's something that indicates that this is about to happen, and then there's the happening, the transmission of the secret code, whether it's digital in nature or whether it's spoken. And then it is ended by, you know, Yosemite Sam again or something like that.

27:54Chuck Bryant:It's saying, here's the beginning, here's the information, here's the end. Now go kill Nordberg. Right. One of the other cool things about this is, and, you know, when we were talking about surely there's better ways, and the government could theoretically shut down the Internet. They could zap satellite transmissions. They could shut everything down. This is almost unstoppable. You can't shut down shortwave radio. I mean, I guess you'd cut power maybe. Yeah. Well, no, supposedly. No. I mean, yeah. And then I guess if people had batteries, though, in their shortwave radio. Yeah, good point. The one way to combat it is called jamming, frequency jamming.

28:36Chuck Bryant:And basically it's just broadcasting on the same frequency that these other transmitters, the number stations are transmitting on. And so if you're broadcasting within your country, you're probably going to reach those shortwave radios better than somebody on the other side of the planet's transmission will. Yeah. And so apparently Russia spent billions, or the Soviets spent billions of dollars during the Cold War jamming frequencies from all sorts of different transmissions. And they'd play things like the sound of seagulls or random beeps or whatever. And it was just to prevent people from transmitting into Russia.

29:15Chuck Bryant:Yeah. But even with all of that money and technology mustered or marshaled against it, they still weren't entirely successful. like shortwave radio transmissions get through. It's just too big to fight. Yeah, you can't jam the entire frequency of all shortwave, like every single frequency. If you've ever heard the Wilco, remember Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, that album? Yeah. That was on the album at some point. I can't remember what song. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot in a woman's voice, and that is a famous code. Was that from the Conant project? No, I don't think so, but we should talk about that for sure.

29:57That was a project, and it was also, I guess, in the Wild West days where you're talking about pre-internet, but people wanted to hear this stuff. Some people got together and put together a greatest hits sort of on CD with a lot of accompanying material about what you're listening to, and none of them, obviously, you can't break these codes. That's the thing I find interesting is people sit around and listen to this stuff, but with no aim of cracking the code.

30:26Chuck Bryant:I think some people do attempt to crack the code. It's impossible. Well, it's not impossible, and we should say the reason why it's not impossible is because if you're using a computer-generated random number, a computer's not capable of generating a truly random number because computers run on algorithms, and algorithms are designed to follow patterns, so they're just incapable of it. So you could, especially today, a hacker could conceivably crack one of these, especially old transmissions. Yeah, but you still don't know what those numbers stand for. Even if you find a pattern of numbers. Right, there's still an agreed upon thing that you would have to figure out.

31:05Chuck Bryant:But it makes it possible. If you could crack that one time pad key, then you have a real chance at deciphering the message itself. Well, yeah, if you know what they stand for. But I still maintain if only you and I know what those numbers represent. Right. To Kill a Mockingbird pages. Yeah, exactly. Well, you were saying the Connet Project thing. Yeah. So it's a four CD compilation. And apparently I read an article from the time when it came out, which is the 90s. It was like perfect timing because there was Y2K going on. Yeah. There was Millennium Angst. There was the X-Files. and this thing came out in 1997 and Salon wrote an article on it and this guy who wrote it was like a music concrete aficionado so people appreciated it not just for the fact that it's like recordings of real live spy transmissions but some people like the kind of avant-garde noise that it had going on too I'm sure the Flaming Lips are currently planning an album composed of nothing but messages right from number stations number eight uh there's a movie that exists that i had never heard of called the number station i hadn't heard of it either yeah i don't think it was released really it said it was from 2013 and like i know most movies that are released it's it probably went straight to video or something but uh i watched the trailer today it's john Cusack and Melin Ackerman and they work at a number station and he's to protect the number station but something bad happens and they're compromised and is who he says he is and is she who she says she is who knows you'll have to rip that turkey to find out did it look bad yeah sure it looked pretty bad sorry John Cusack yeah sorry John Cusack So I think one of the most interesting things about number stations is that, like you said, they peaked during the Cold War right when the Berlin Wall fell.

33:23Chuck Bryant:And then in the few years after that, the number of transmissions supposedly just dropped off dramatically. Although I did see in at least one place that supposedly they increased, but I didn't see that supported anywhere else. But the idea that they're still around at all in 2014, that there are still number stations transmitting gibberish, really says a lot. So it says a couple of things. And you've already mentioned one. It's possible they are just transmitting gibberish to throw off anybody listening. Yeah, that's one. To basically just kind of sap their resources. Right, like keep them, Ruskies, busy listening to our gibberish.

34:01Chuck Bryant:Sure. Another one is that they're keeping them going in case they need to use them again. I think that's totally the reason. In which case, that's pretty smart because you're not showing your hand, like where all of a sudden an inactive radio station suddenly starts up again indicates activity. If it's been doing the same thing for 10 years, and on year 7, it actually transmitted a real secret message, but it seemed just like everything else in those 10 years, you're doing some pretty good spycraft there. Yeah, or just to keep that, like you may not be actively using it, but just to keep that method relevant.

34:44Chuck Bryant:Right. Like, you know, if you quit doing something, it's going to die off. No one's going to know how to do it anymore. Sure, yeah. So, you know, just keep those people working. And, you know, they may not even know if they're transmitting real messages or not. I would guess if you're just saying, oh, yeah, yeah, if you just hand them a sheet of paper and it's just, yeah. In fact, that may be a pretty safe way to do things. Sure. It's like the person with the nuclear key. Yeah. Is this a test? Who knows? Is this war games? We'll find out in 30 minutes. There are also other theories that they are, and I think some of this does go on, maybe drug runners using stuff like this because some of them are less than professional.

35:27Apparently the ones from Cuba, or Cuba, sorry Jerry, are a little comical.

35:34Chuck Bryant:Well, they were renowned for just having really bad slip-ups, especially during the Cold War. Like you'd hear people talking and laughing in the background or an accidental transmission of a radio station. Right, of Radio Havana, right? Yeah, so they were kind of known for not being too skilled at it. But I imagine the drug runners are the same. Yeah, it's virtually the same thing. And I mean, there's absolutely no reason why drug runners couldn't also use this alongside the espionage community too. Yeah, theirs might be A is one, B is two. Right. And they get the message that says, huh, shipment of kilos coming in Miami Beach tomorrow night.

36:12Right. Let's go get them. Kill one. I'm one. But I do think there may be a little bit of that. I think it's a mixed bag of why they're still being broadcast. I think there are enthusiasts that are probably just doing their own thing for fun. Yeah. That'd be fun, man. If I was in Guam and I could send you a private message, be a shortwave.

36:37Chuck Bryant:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant people who are just doing it just to mess with the Enigma community or something like that. I think that probably happens too. I bet you it's all kinds of things. Yeah, I'm sure you're right. There's one guy out there, trust me. There have been some actual spies who have been busted in this century, long after the Cold War, who had shortwave radios and one-time pads in their apartments or houses. apparently in 2011 in Germany a couple who'd lived there since 1988 and were spying for the Russians were caught in the act of receiving a numbers transmission in their home when they were apprehended and busted for spying I can see that scene he's got like one headphone up and he's holding it with his hand and he's writing something down in pencil and his wife's trying to eat it really quick spit it out spit it out And in 2001, Anna Montez worked for the U.S.

37:36Civil Intelligence Agency, and she was convicted of spying for Cuba. And when they searched her home, they found a shortwave radio and a code sheet. And so, yeah, I mean, it's still going on, man. I think it's pretty neat.

37:51Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I do too. Like it's old school, but almost foolproof. Yeah, the big vulnerability is getting the randomly generated key to the spy. Yeah, and they also point out in the article, who wrote this one, by the way? Nathan Chandler. Nathan points out that these days you're likely, your one-timer might be sent to you, maybe digitally somehow. But it doesn't tip anyone off, necessarily. Yeah, I'm not quite sure how. Yeah, I would think if you're being watched, then an email with a lot of random numbers might tip someone. Right. Well, it used to be they'd print them on that kind of paper that dissolved quickly or burned and left no ash or whatever.

38:37Chuck Bryant:Right. They were on such a tiny piece of paper, you had to use a really good magnifying lens to read it. Yeah. And you could hide them in a walnut shell or something like that. Oh, wow. Who knows what they're doing now? Yeah. But they are doing something. Yeah. I'd like to, I thought about getting a short, I was a little bit inspired, but then I thought, oh, man, I've got so many other things to do. I don't know if I could fall into that rabbit hole. So that's number stations. If that piqued your interest, just type in number stations into your favorite search engine, and it will lead you down the rabbit hole of shortwave radio.

39:13Chuck Bryant:Did you say rabbit hole? Is that where I got that from? I said rabbit hole, but I didn't invent it. No, I know, but it just popped up in my head. And it wasn't my own invention. And I think if you have a shortwave radio, you probably tune into these anyway because you're just into that lifestyle. But I think there's a website called Spy Numbers where you can actually find the frequencies and just go right there. And you don't have to search for them. Right. And if you want to read this article, you can type the words numbers stations in the search bar at howstuffworks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.

39:47I'm going to call this a bit on sushi from someone in Japan. Hey guys and Jerry He spelled Jerry right as well Man it's Jerry's day I enjoyed the sushi episode quite a bit And I have something to add As a result of modern food production Following World War II in Japan And of course the US and elsewhere The quality and traditional methods Of making shoyu, miso, and other Japanese food items Sadly plummeted For example miso can be fermented and aged In a matter of weeks With the use of temperature controlled tanks Where traditional dark miso Would age up to two years Same goes with other fermented products like shoyu.

40:24Mirin, no longer a sweet rice cooking wine. It's practically sugar water. Speaking of sugar, modern Japanese food wouldn't exist without it. Umiboshi, the sour, salty, pickled plum, is lousy with artificial color, sugar, and refined salt.

40:39Chuck Bryant:They're still good. As much as I love Japanese food and culture, it's quite heartbreaking to see these centuries of traditional food processing supplanted by the Japanese version of a Twinkie, chemically made and processed. As an alternative, there are good quality Japanese products to be had, particularly those imported from Eden Foods, which is high quality, organic, and widely distributed. Is this the president of Eden Foods? I don't know. Are they based in Alameda, California? Sounds like it. That is from Lear in Alameda, California. I meant to mention to you, I had the worst sushi I've had in my life the other day.

41:14Chuck Bryant:Oh, no. Where? I'm not going to say it, but I'm not going back. I'll tell you off air. Yeah, please do. I don't think you wouldn't go there anyway. But it was the rice was gummy and really gummy to the point where I ate it just because I was starving and I ate it really fast. And I was like, oh, this is kind of gummy. And then afterward, I was like, man, that was terrible. Yeah. Did you say that to yourself and like you smiled and your whole mouth was coated in rice? It was gross, man. And I was ticked off afterward, after I paid the bill and complained the whole way home to Emily. I was like, I really should have said something.

41:51Because that was, like, they should have known they shouldn't have served that rice.

41:55Chuck Bryant:Well, why didn't you say something? Because, like I said, I just shoved it in my face hole and left and complained afterward. Which is, that's how I do things usually. I don't like to make a scene. I just like to play the martyr afterward. I've talked about that gummy sushi for two days. Yeah. Oh, it was that bad. Yeah, the fish and stuff was good, but that rice was just very subpar. They should have known better. Okay. Well, tell me where it is afterward. I will. Okay. If you want to, I guess, inadvertently or quietly, clandestinely promote your business, like Lear did with his Eden Foods CES.

42:36Chuck Bryant:Subversively? Yeah. Yeah. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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