In short
Stuff You Should Know: Short Stuff Episode on MacGuffins
Episode Overview In this episode of "Stuff You Should Know," hosts Josh and Chuck delve into the concept of MacGuffins—an elusive plot device prevalent in films. Despite their significance in storytelling, the hosts humorously acknowledge the ambiguity surrounding their true definition.
Key Concepts
What is a MacGuffin?
- Definition: A MacGuffin is a plot device that drives the story forward and motivates characters, yet its actual importance can vary.
- Controversy: There are differing definitions among screenwriters, causing confusion:
- First Definition: The MacGuffin is the crux of the plot; without it, the story would not exist (e.g., the Maltese Falcon).
- Second Definition: While it motivates characters, its actual importance to the overall plot may be minimal (e.g., the gold head statue in *Raiders of the Lost Ark*).
Famous Examples of MacGuffins
- The Maltese Falcon: A statuette that drives the film's plot but is not the story's central focus.
- Raiders of the Lost Ark: The gold head statue is initially significant but not central to the overall narrative.
- The Blackmail Letter in *Murder of Roger Ackroyd*: Vital for the characters but secondary to the main plot.
- Psycho: The stolen money serves as a MacGuffin that catalyzes the plot.
- R2-D2 in *Star Wars*: Pursued for the Death Star plans, but the audience's emotional investment is crucial.
- The Briefcase in *Pulp Fiction*: Another classic MacGuffin whose contents remain a mystery.
Discussion Highlights
- Hitchcock’s Influence: While the term predates him, Alfred Hitchcock popularized the concept and had various explanations for it:
- Something essential to the characters but insignificant to the audience.
- The plot device that spies chase but doesn’t engage the audience's interest.
- Differences in Interpretation: The hosts debated the nuances between the two definitions of a MacGuffin, acknowledging their confusion and the difficulty in categorizing examples.
- Cultural References: The hosts shared their favorite MacGuffins, including:
- The cassette tape in *Escape from New York*.
- The Thing in *The Thing*.
- Marcellus Wallace’s briefcase in *Pulp Fiction*.
Key Takeaways
- MacGuffins play a crucial role in film narratives, driving characters' actions and influencing the plot.
- The distinction between what qualifies as a MacGuffin can be subjective, leading to ongoing debates among filmmakers and audiences.
- Understanding MacGuffins enhances the appreciation of storytelling techniques in cinema.
Audience Engagement
- The hosts encourage listeners, especially film students and cinephiles, to share their thoughts and definitions regarding MacGuffins for further exploration.
Conclusion The episode offers an entertaining and insightful discussion on the complexities of MacGuffins in film, leaving listeners reflecting on their favorite movies and the devices that propel their plots.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOWhat is a MacGuffin?
0:45 to 2:29
Exploration of the definition and significance of a MacGuffin in storytelling.
“In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.”
Contradictory Definitions
2:29 to 4:30
Discussion on the differing interpretations of what constitutes a MacGuffin.
“That wouldn't be the central premise of the short stuff?”
Examples from Film
4:30 to 5:56
Analyzing examples of MacGuffins in popular films like 'The Maltese Falcon' and 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
“But the idea that it's irrelevant or the most important part of the entire plot, that's a difference for sure.”
Further Examples and Clarifications
5:56 to 8:19
Continued examination of MacGuffins with references to literature and film.
“You referenced like the Maltese Falcon having the cure for cancer.”
Historical Context and Origins
8:19 to 10:40
Discussion on the origins of the term MacGuffin and its historical context in storytelling.
“Celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks.”
Pop Culture References
10:40 to 14:03
Mention of various cultural references to MacGuffins in films and media.
“Well, it all comes – it came pre-Hitchcock, but Hitchcock is the one that sort of made it famous, I guess.”
Exploring Pearl White and Early MacGuffins
14:03 to 15:11
Learn about the origins of the term MacGuffin through early cinema and Pearl White.
“Apparently decades before that, this was TV Tropes who pointed this out, there was a silent film actress named Pearl White.”
Iconic MacGuffins in Film
15:11 to 15:46
Discover classic examples of MacGuffins in popular films like Escape from New York and Pulp Fiction.
“Similarly, another John Carpenter movie that had a great MacGuffin was The Thing with Wilford Brimley being the MacGuffin from my understanding of MacGuffins.”
The Nature of MacGuffins and Tarantino's Influence
15:46 to 16:44
Discuss the ambiguous nature of MacGuffins and how Tarantino employs them in his films.
“And that one is, I mean, I love Pulp Fiction, but that one definitely seems like Tarantino really wanted to write in a classic MacGuffin, I think.”
Engaging the Audience on MacGuffins
16:44 to 17:01
Encourage listeners to share their thoughts on MacGuffins and contribute to the discussion.
“Write in and we'd love to hear from film students and film cinephiles and see if you guys can give us a clearer definition.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Josh Clark:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both?
0:38Josh Clark:Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,
0:54Chuck Bryant:one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.
0:58Josh Clark:The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
1:07Chuck Bryant:Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:18Chuck Bryant:Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too, sitting in for Dave, which you guessed it makes this a short stuff. And it's a short stuff about a question that will probably never be answered. What is a MacGuffin?
1:36Josh Clark:Yeah, I think I offered up a definition of my own recently, and I'm not even sure what I said.
1:42Chuck Bryant:You, you, I think you went with the second definition. Okay. That we're covering here. All right. But there's, I mean, even though, so there's a couple different definitions. and they contradict each other in certain ways, but there are some things they agree on. And that is that a MacGuffin is a plot device. It moves things along to some way, to some degree or another. It motivates characters in a story or a movie and what it is specifically and what role it ultimately plays in the plot. That's where the definitions differ. And so just based on what I just said, That means that figuring out what a MacGuffin is, is the MacGuffin of this episode of short stuff.
2:29Josh Clark:That wouldn't be the central premise of the short stuff?
2:32Chuck Bryant:I don't know, man. This is brain breaking. This is like economics, quantum physics, and jackhammers all put together.
2:41Josh Clark:Well, the first sort of definition, I think example wise, is the Maltese Falcon is kind of always, If you look up anything about the MacGuffin, they'll usually kind of point to the Maltese Falcon film as one of the best examples. It was a novel and then later a movie where Humphrey Bogart played Sam Spade. And the MacGuffin is the Maltese Falcon. It's this statuette of a bird in the movie. But it's really not about that Maltese Falcon, the object. it's about what happens uh to try and get a hold of this thing basically okay okay i okay so this
3:25Chuck Bryant:is where the this is where i don't get it so the there's definitions out there from screenwriters who say um the the maltese falcon is the point this is the object that does everything in the movie, all of the actions are based on getting their hands on the Maltese Falcon. There would be no plot whatsoever if the Maltese Falcon didn't exist. Ergo, that's what a MacGuffin is. It's the thing that moves the entire movie. Right? The other definition is, no, I mean, it causes some action. And as far as the characters are concerned, it's the most important thing, but it actually isn't all that important in the overall plot.
4:08Chuck Bryant:I get the first definition of MacGuffin quite clearly, but this other definition I cannot get because every time I say, okay, well then let me try to figure out what is an example of a MacGuffin there, I usually come up short and it ends up basically falling into the first definition instead.
4:25Josh Clark:I don't see much of a difference between the two definitions.
4:29Chuck Bryant:I know there's not much difference, But the idea that it's irrelevant or the most important part of the entire plot, that's a difference for sure.
4:41Josh Clark:Okay. But ultimately, the Maltese Falcon itself isn't like, and the cure for cancer is inside and we can save the main character. You know what I mean?
4:50Chuck Bryant:Okay. I'm going to go with your take on this because I'm not the one who had a movie podcast. Yes.
4:57Josh Clark:So a good example of the second one, and we're going to go over some more famous examples too at the end. But in Raiders of the Lost Ark at the beginning, that little gold head statue that he gets. If you'd never seen that movie before, you know, you saw it for the first time, you might think like, oh, this object that he's recovering is like super central to the plot perhaps. And it's not at all. So that's just sort of the first MacGuffin in that movie. They're usually introduced in Act One, although George Lucas has come out and said that he thinks the actual Ark of the Covenant is also a MacGuffin.
5:34Chuck Bryant:So, yeah, you sent that. And I don't I don't get that then. That's the thing that motivates everyone's action. It's the most important thing in the entire movie. How is that irrelevant?
5:47Josh Clark:Well, I mean, because I guess because in the end, they just go stick it in a box and put it in a warehouse.
5:55Chuck Bryant:Okay, so then let me ask you this. You referenced like the Maltese Falcon having the cure for cancer. If the point of getting the Ark of the Covenant was to open it up and just end all of the ills of the world, and then they did that at the end, Would that mean it's not the MacGuffin then or a MacGuffin? I don't know, because I don't think that was the driving point of them trying to find the Ark.
6:25Josh Clark:Like, that was a byproduct of it.
6:27Chuck Bryant:If it had been, though.
6:29Josh Clark:Oh, well, geez, I don't know.
6:31Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
6:31Josh Clark:That movie's so ingrained, it's hard to sort of reframe it.
6:34Chuck Bryant:Okay, I say we take a break. We'll regroup, take a couple film classes, and come back.
6:41Josh Clark:That sounds great.
6:58Josh Clark:What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
7:18Chuck Bryant:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.
7:23Josh Clark:NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
8:04Josh Clark:What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul. A place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life. Celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Fake when it's complicated.
8:42Josh Clark:Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
9:20Chuck Bryant:Okay, Chuck, I've got another attempt here. This one makes a little more sense to me. in the murder of Roger Ackroyd, the Agatha Christie book. Have you ever seen it? It's really good. It's essentially what Knives Out, the first one, is based on.
9:36Josh Clark:Oh, okay.
9:37Chuck Bryant:But in there, the character, the main character, the titular character, Roger Ackroyd, he is murdered, and he was murdered so the murderer could get their hands on a blackmail letter, okay? The blackmail letter with the name of the blackmailer, That's important to the characters, but it's not really the point of the overall plot. The point of the overall plot is Hercule Poirot's investigation to uncover who murdered Roger Ackroyd. So in that sense, that blackmailer letter is the MacGuffin. How about that one?
10:15Josh Clark:Yeah, I mean, it seems like a MacGuffin to me.
10:17Chuck Bryant:Okay. We're on the trail. So I think my problem is this, Chuck. It's not that I can't understand what a MacGuffin is. It's that I can't understand why some things that are MacGuffins are called MacGuffins and other things that aren't considered MacGuffins aren't MacGuffins. That's my big problem here. I'm just going to shut up about it from now on, but I just want to make sure I go on the record saying that.
10:39Josh Clark:All right. Well, it all comes – it came pre-Hitchcock, but Hitchcock is the one that sort of made it famous, I guess. He used it in a lot of his movies for sure. And he had a couple of different explanations over the years. One is that it was something vitally important to the characters, but of no importance to me, the narrator. Another one I saw him say was, it's the thing that the spies are after, but the audience doesn't care about. Which was where he and George Lucas diverged, because George Lucas, apparently R2-D2 was a MacGuffin in Star Wars. He said, I think the audience should care. And specifically, like, if the audience doesn't care as much about R2 as Luke does in finding him, then like the emotional tilt will be off.
11:26Yeah, for sure.
Read the full transcript
11:28Chuck Bryant:But Hitchcock was able to pull off what he was saying in that, say, like the microfilm or whatever, you don't really care if the bad guys get it or Cary Grant gets it. You want to make sure that Cary Grant and was it Grace Kelly, who is in North by Northwest. You just want to make sure that they're both OK. You don't care about the microfilm.
11:50Josh Clark:Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The movie Psycho is one of the classic examples because, you know, everyone remembers the Bates Motel. But I think if you haven't seen the movie in a while, if you're not a student of that film, You may forget that whole first part in the first act where Janet Leigh, the reason she goes to the Bates Motel is because she's on the run after stealing 40 grand from her employer. And that 40 grand, that's the MacGuffin. It never comes up again.
12:20Chuck Bryant:No, but it's the thing that initially motivates the character's actions. It gets her to flee. She's on the lam. That takes her to the Bates Motel. And then the actual plot begins.
12:32Josh Clark:Yeah, but what about the word itself?
12:35Chuck Bryant:Well, you sent something, and I've read this 10 times, and I still don't get how it explains what a MacGuffin is. So I think I'll leave it to you, but it's the one time Hitchcock tried to explain the origin of a MacGuffin or what it is, I think.
12:49Josh Clark:Yeah, he credits a writer that he worked with named Angus MacPhail. And one of the theories is that it just comes from the root word guff, which is a word that means like something said that's trivial or meaningless. So that certainly has a little bit of weight. But another story is that apparently Macphail had told this story to Hitchcock where he said two Scottish men are riding on a train. One man asked the other about the contents of a package on the overhead luggage rack. He said, it's a MacGuffin, a device for hunting tigers in Scotland. And the other guy said, but there are no tigers in Scotland.
13:28Josh Clark:And he says, well, then I guess it's not a MacGuffin. You still do not get it. Well, I mean, to me, that just means it's sort of like that illustrates its meaninglessness.
13:41Chuck Bryant:Okay. Okay. We'll go with that.
13:44Josh Clark:I mean, I don't see what else it could mean.
13:47Chuck Bryant:I don't either. I don't see what it can mean in any case. Like it's like, yeah, I don't know. Who knows? I think your interpretation is right. I can kind of sink my teeth into the history of this because you said that it predates Hitchcock, although he popularized it. Apparently decades before that, this was TV Tropes who pointed this out, there was a silent film actress named Pearl White. And in the kind of action cliffhanger serials that she started, they were always chasing after some like roll of film or some treasure or something like that. And she called them weenies, but they were essentially what she was saying.
14:26Chuck Bryant:They were the plot devices that was driving all of the characters' actions.
14:30Josh Clark:I like weenie.
14:31Chuck Bryant:I like weenie, too.
14:33Josh Clark:Yeah, that's pretty good.
14:34Chuck Bryant:Should you bring that back?
14:35Josh Clark:My favorite MacGuffin, I think, is probably from Escape from New York. Oh, yeah. The cassette tape.
14:43Chuck Bryant:Yeah, that's a good one.
14:44Josh Clark:Yeah, there's a cassette tape of Donald Pleasance as the president. And, you know, he's trapped on the prison island of New York, and Snake Plissken is tasked with going to get him and, crucially, that cassette tape back because it's some big, important speech to the world. and you don't even hear it at the end because, well, I don't want to spoil it, but you never end up hearing what's even on that cassette tape. So that's sort of a classic MacGuffin.
15:11Chuck Bryant:Similarly, another John Carpenter movie that had a great MacGuffin was The Thing with Wilford Brimley being the MacGuffin from my understanding of MacGuffins.
15:22Josh Clark:Yeah, that's a great movie.
15:25Chuck Bryant:You said R2 is the MacGuffin in Star Wars Episode IV. I think that's awesome. I had never thought about that before, but he's the droid that they're after because he has the plans for the Death Star. Another one that comes to mind is that mysterious briefcase that belonged to Marcellus Wallace that Vincent and Jules go retrieve in Pulp Fiction.
15:45Josh Clark:Yeah, classic MacGuffin. And that one is, I mean, I love Pulp Fiction, but that one definitely seems like Tarantino really wanted to write in a classic MacGuffin, I think. Yeah, and he did. Yeah.
15:56Chuck Bryant:And they also, they never say what was in the briefcase. And it just kind of falls away from the plot eventually, too.
16:03Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure. I think I have a bad taste in my mouth about Tarantino in general lately.
16:08Chuck Bryant:Yeah. What is it about, like, men who have power and fame and reach, like, their 50s and just completely just jerk out? I don't know. I don't get it.
16:20Josh Clark:Well, my time is coming, I guess.
16:23Chuck Bryant:No, I think you've passed the point. point. Okay.
16:26Josh Clark:So once you hit 54, 55, then you're safe?
16:29Chuck Bryant:Yeah. I think you made it through the great filter of becoming a jerk. All right. Well, your time's coming then. I know. I'm really having to hang on. You'll be all right. I'm going to follow all of your examples, including your definition of MacGuffin. And I think we should stop talking about MacGuffins now.
16:43Josh Clark:All right. And hey, we'll say this. Write in and we'd love to hear from film students and film cinephiles and see if you guys can give us a clearer definition.
16:53Chuck Bryant:that's a great call Chuck short stuff is out
17:01Josh Clark:stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
From the publisher
What’s a MacGuffin? We don’t know. No one knows. But it has to do with movies and that’s fun to talk about.
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