In short
Nostalgic history and cultural impact of phone books, especially how people used white pages (residential) and yellow pages (businesses) before the internet and caller ID.
Guests
Josh, Chuck, and Jerry, Dave (hosts of The Short Stuff segment). No specific external guest bios are provided in the transcript.
Key claims
Phone books were once the main way to find people and businesses; businesses paid to be listed and could buy larger Yellow Pages ads. AT&T profited heavily from Yellow Pages listings (1986: $7B; later estimated ~$13B). “Let your fingers do the walking” promoted calling instead of searching in person. Environmental waste peaked (e.g., 650,000 tons of paper in 1991). Decline driven by 411, internet search, and a 2004 law banning cell phone numbers in phone books.
Notable examples
Searching “Charles W. Chuck Bryant” in white pages; calling multiple “Josh Clarks”; Seattle charging for unwanted deliveries; Sineco Glass auto glass advertising in Yellow Pages (Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONostalgic Introduction to Phone Books
0:57 to 1:24
Discussion about the nostalgia and importance of phone books in the past.
“I mean, there's a slew of websites you use to research this, but I mean, honestly, we could just say from our own brains.”
How Phone Books Were Used
1:24 to 2:54
Exploration of how phone books were utilized for finding businesses and contacts.
“And if you're of a certain age, you know exactly what we're talking about.”
Understanding the White Pages
2:54 to 5:07
Detailed explanation of how the white and yellow pages functioned in locating people and businesses.
“And one of the things that stuck out to me was explaining the white pages where you could go and say, I'm looking for Charles W.”
The Business of Phone Books
5:07 to 7:11
Insight into how phone books generated revenue and the significance of advertising.
“And that's why you would see like A1 plumber or A1 florist is because they would be listed first.”
The Business of Phone Books
7:14 to 7:25
Insight into how phone books generated revenue and the significance of advertising.
“That's half off at simplisafe.com slash stuff.”
The Evolution of Phone Books
8:37 to 13:45
Examination of the historical development of phone books and their impact.
“The first phone directory we talked a little bit about in our telephone episode, I think.”
Environmental Impact of Phone Books
13:45 to 14:00
Discussion about the wastefulness associated with phone book deliveries and regulations.
“I remember early, I mean, And this is a long time ago now, but not that long ago.”
The Environmental Impact of Phone Books
14:00 to 14:37
Learn about the significant waste generated by phone books and initial recycling efforts.
“But everyone, you know, it was pretty clear, like, what a wasteful thing.”
Factors Leading to the Decline of Phone Books
14:37 to 16:46
Explore how 411 service, the Internet, and legislation contributed to the decline of phone books.
“And if people elect to not have a phone book, but they still throw one on your porch, like that's a$150 fine.”
Modern Use and Persistence of Phone Books
16:46 to 17:52
Discover the demographics of current phone book users and ongoing advertising practices.
“So that means that unless they go to the trouble of opting out, they still get a phone book delivered to them every year.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Josh Clark:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. If audiobooks are your thing and you've been meaning to listen to more of them, you should check out a podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audio Club, hosted by Cal Penn. Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres, sci-fi, comedy, romance, thrillers, and more, with Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to. It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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1:03Chuck Bryant:Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. Josh, Chuck, Jerry, Dave. Let's go nostalgic.
1:10Josh Clark:That's right. I mean, there's a slew of websites you use to research this, but I mean, honestly, we could just say from our own brains. Because there wasn't a lot in here that we just didn't know as growing up in the time that we grow up again. because this is about phone books. And if you're of a certain age, you know exactly what we're talking about. If you're not of a certain age yet, you might be surprised to know that at a certain point in time, if you wanted to, I don't know, take your car to the shop or find a florist or a dry cleaner, you couldn't just go on the internet to do that or whip out your phone.
1:46Josh Clark:You would bring out a 17-pound book that was eight inches thick, drop it on your kitchen table and wake up your entire family on a Saturday morning. And you would start letting your, well, I'm not going to say it. You would start thumbing through that thing, looking under the florist section or the laundromat section to find a business to give your money to.
2:10Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
2:10Josh Clark:Very cute.
2:11Chuck Bryant:That is how you found businesses. It's how you found people too, because the business part was in the second half of the phone book. It was all in yellow pages. the first part was white pages and those were residential listings yeah or they were two different books entirely it could be if you lived in a fancy pants area you know like Atlanta like Westchester or something like that yeah the white pages this is another thing the reason I love doing this one Chuck is because this is the to me the first time we can be like you have grown up in a world where you can't really understand the world that this thing existed in and shaped.
2:53Chuck Bryant:This is a great example of it. And one of the things that stuck out to me was explaining the white pages where you could go and say, I'm looking for Charles W. Chuck Bryant. So I'm going to go to the B's of the white pages and start looking through the Bryants until I find all the Charles. And I know Chuck lives in Atlanta. So I'm going to find Chuck's address in Atlanta. And then at the end of that is Chuck's phone number. And I'm going to pick up my phone and dial the numbers that is in this publicly available book. Maybe even I'll get tired of waiting for him to answer. I'll hang up and just drive to his house, which I now know exactly where it is because his address is listed under his full name with his phone number in the phone book, along with everybody else in town.
3:37Yeah.
3:38Josh Clark:And you would just knock on my door if you wanted to speak to me and I know that we were sending a large number of our listeners into a complete and utter panic yeah at the thought of someone knocking on their door just to pop in and say hello or whatever
3:50Chuck Bryant:but just think about how much the world has changed in that respect oh yeah you don't even
3:55Josh Clark:call someone anymore without texting them to say can I call right now it's very strange it is this is a different world it was a totally different world um the uh well you know another funny tangent to that is I also remember a day where if you were like, let's say you knew someone's name, but you didn't really know where they lived and you didn't know them that well. So you needed their phone number. So you looked it up and there were like six Josh Clarks and you would start calling random Josh Clarks and say, are you the Josh Clark that I met at camp, summer camp this summer or the parents of?
4:33Josh Clark:So like you would go like, you know, that's the whole plot of the initial Terminators. He's killing random Sarah Connors. Oh, yeah. Because he looks up Sarah Conner in the phone book.
4:42Chuck Bryant:Yeah. But you would totally do that. I did that, too. I mean, like you would do something like that. And it was. And people understood and be like, oh,
4:50Josh Clark:that's that's a different guy. Sorry. Good luck. Good luck. Oh, man. So quaint. And this was not like 300 years ago. The other thing I did not know, actually, when I said I knew all this in my brain and it totally makes sense now. All this, you know, the businesses themselves were advertised within the floral section or the laundromat section. And that's why you would see like A1 plumber or A1 florist is because they would be listed first. I never knew that. And I feel like a dummy because it's so obvious. Oh, no.
5:19Chuck Bryant:I mean, like that's, but yeah, that's what I would call my business. We should have called this A1 Stuff You Should Know podcast. Right.
5:26Josh Clark:A1 podcast. Right.
5:28Chuck Bryant:Yeah. No, that totally makes sense. It was called gaming the system, I think.
5:33Josh Clark:That's right.
5:34Chuck Bryant:So, um, for about a hundred years, like this is how you made contact with the outside world. This is how you searched for things in the outside world. It's really hard to wrap your head around now, but you just pull a book out. Um, and I say we take a little break, come back and talk a little more about the history of the phone book after, well, this break. Let's do it. Well, now when you're on the road driving in your truck, Why not learn a thing or two from Josh and Chuck? It's Stuff You Should Know. Stuff You Should Know. All right.
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6:44Josh Clark:Another great thing is they have no long-term contracts, and that's pretty great to not be locked in because what if you have a life change or something?
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8:36Josh Clark:All right, we're back. We're talking phone books. The first phone directory we talked a little bit about in our telephone episode, I think. It was published in 1878 in New Haven, Connecticut, and had about 50 subscribers, is what they were called at the time, on a single piece of paper listed. As phones spread around, obviously the phone book got bigger and bigger, to the point where, like I mentioned, we had a full white pages and a full yellow pages. And they were very big books. I think the last editions of the New York City, well, maybe not the last, because there are still phone books if you have a landline, believe it or not.
9:11Josh Clark:But the New York City phone books came in multiple volumes at the last quarter of the 20th century. And they were so thick that if you were a kid in high school, you might have a strong person team come around to do a little show for you at an afternoon assembly. And inevitably, they would blow up a hot water bottle and burst it until it burst. And somebody would rip a phone book in half, which was seemingly really hard to do.
9:40Chuck Bryant:Okay, I have no recollection of seeing an assembly like that. Like, did you see that? It sounds like that's a firsthand account.
9:49Josh Clark:Yeah, yeah. We had a strong man team come around and do like feats of strength for the high school one afternoon.
9:55Chuck Bryant:Did they like legitimize it by just saying like, also don't do drugs at the end?
9:59Josh Clark:Oh, probably, yeah.
10:00Chuck Bryant:Wow, that's really something. Yeah. I don't remember anything like that.
10:07Josh Clark:Where do you think they ripped up phone books? just like on that's incredible or whatever yeah exactly i got to see it live buddy wow
10:14Chuck Bryant:go read an hs that's right um the read an redheads no the raiders that's all right that was close yeah um so one of the things like if you were uh if you had a phone like you just got a phone book it was free like they were disposable like you just thought nothing of the phone book but it Turns out they were like big, big business for AT &T and then later on for a bunch of other companies. But AT &T, according to a 1986 article, the article said that AT &T made$7 billion just off of the money it charged businesses across the country to be listed in the Yellow Pages. And that's like$13 billion today.
10:57Chuck Bryant:That's a lot. That's like lunch at Apple.
11:03Josh Clark:yeah i mean there's a ton of money and i even looked up i was like i wonder if there was a sort of a weird little hidden surcharge uh for like the customer to be listed and apparently not apparently you were never ever charged to be listed in the phone book you did have to pay to get unlisted yeah which a lot of states eventually like um introduced like house bills and stuff they're like this is a scam you can't just list somebody's name and address and say you got to pay us to not do that extortion yeah so i think a lot of those ended up being successful but um you know at &t was was selling those uh not only just a spot in the yellow pages but you could pay a lot more money to get like larger ads and stuff in the yellow pages to get more notice and they would market that stuff and you know almost said it earlier but i didn't want to let it slip but a very famous one it was in 1962 i could have sworn it was the 70s because it clearly went through the 70s was let your fingers do the walking ad campaign.
12:00Josh Clark:The idea of, hey, let your fingers do the walking instead of your body. Like don't walk around downtown looking for your florist. Just let your fingers do that and then give them a call instead.
Read the full transcript
12:10Chuck Bryant:Exactly. And I mean, that was kind of revolutionary as far as things went, at least in the mid-century. And I said that AT &T made a bunch of money off of the Yellow Pages. The reason why it was just them is because they had a monopoly on the phone system in the U.S., which I'm sure we covered as well in that phone exchange episode. But it was finally broken up. The government granted monopoly. They're like, you guys are too big. We're going to break up into regional providers like Northwestern Bell, Southern Bell, that kind of stuff. And so all of those companies, these sub companies now were printing yellow pages and they were making money.
12:48Chuck Bryant:But because Bell no longer had a monopoly, that also opened the door for private companies to start making their own yellow pages. There was just a lot of money walking around because this is how people found businesses. It was either driving past and seeing a business that had their phone number on the sign or you went to the yellow pages. It was as simple as that. So you had a lot of incentive to advertise in the yellow pages. And so companies had a lot of incentive to publish yellow pages. And so the number of phone books that came to one person's house started to boom. I think in the 1990s, in some parts of California, you might get 10 different phone books delivered to your house every year.
13:32Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
13:32Josh Clark:Yeah. And, you know, obviously, especially in a place like California or, you know, Washington State, Seattle, Washington, people would be like, hey, wait a minute. This is like a pretty awful thing to do. Like the amount of waste that's happening here. I remember early, I mean, And this is a long time ago now, but not that long ago. But the Internet was around and there were still phone books being delivered. And I remember seeing a comedian joke about, I think the joke was something about printing a small portion of the Internet and throwing it on my porch once a year. I always thought that was pretty funny.
14:06Josh Clark:But everyone, you know, it was pretty clear, like, what a wasteful thing. I think a half a billion phone books were being delivered, 650 ,000 tons of paper every year by 1991, enough to fill up 2 million cubic yards of landfill space, even though you could probably recycle that stuff. So they initially started doing like recycled paper and stuff like that. Seattle, like I mentioned, I think was one of the first ones to say like, you know, we're going to start charging phone bookmakers 14 cents per phone book delivered within the city. And if people elect to not have a phone book, but they still throw one on your porch, like that's a$150 fine.
14:44Chuck Bryant:Knowing me, Justice Police, I would have immediately gone to the trouble of filling out like the five-page form to complain to make sure that that company got fined$150. I totally would. Yeah. I opted out. You got a touch of the Justice Police in you too. Yeah, for sure.
14:59Josh Clark:Yeah, yeah.
15:00Chuck Bryant:Neither – yeah.
15:01Josh Clark:We don't like bad guys getting away with stuff.
15:03Chuck Bryant:Justice. Yeah. So despite the environmental thing, I think basically converting to recycled paper helped a lot of people and training people, like you said, like these things can actually be easily recycled. That kind of simmered people down about the environmental part. So that's not what did away with phone books. There were like three things in pretty quick succession that really started to take the yellow pages down at least. So 411, that was information. All of a sudden, you could dial that for free starting in the 80s. And now you didn't even have to look in the phone book. You could just call up and be like, just start reading some plumber's names off to me and their phone numbers.
15:44Josh Clark:Yeah, you would call someone to read you the phone book.
15:46Chuck Bryant:Exactly. That's right.
15:48Josh Clark:And then, of course, you know, the Internet coming along had everything to do with it. And also in 2004, Congress passed a law that said you can't put cell phone numbers in phone books. So they were on the way to doing that. So it basically was whittled down to just landlines. And then once the Internet came around, as far as businesses go, the Yellow Pages wasn't as necessary. But, you know, they're all still around because there are still landlines. And you know who advertises in the Yellow Pages still? Who? Rick Sinebogen, Emily's dad. And Sineco Glass, his auto glass repair shop in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, unless it's changed.
16:31Josh Clark:we were talking one day and he was like, yeah, I still advertise in the Yellow Pages. A lot of people around here still use landlines, still look stuff up in the Yellow Pages.
16:39Chuck Bryant:Yeah, there was a poll that found, I think in 2024, more than 50 million homes in the U.S. still have a landline. So that means that unless they go to the trouble of opting out, they still get a phone book delivered to them every year. And that 10 % of all Americans still use the Yellow Pages. If you just zero in on 55 and older, almost three quarters of them use the yellow pages to find business like old habits die hard. So like your father in law is like he has an incentive to still advertising the yellow pages, which means there's an incentive for yellow pages to still exist as long as people use them, you know?
17:17Yeah.
17:18Josh Clark:What I'm really mad about is I'm now in the age group where they're like, but this is what the olds are doing.
17:23Chuck Bryant:Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
17:26Josh Clark:Yeah. Friggin' yellow pages? I get that.
17:28Chuck Bryant:I get that.
17:28Josh Clark:Nobody I know my age looks in the yellow pages, so I take issue with that number.
17:32Chuck Bryant:You're a 26 percenter.
17:34Josh Clark:Yeah, I guess so. But I have to say, if you're looking for auto glass repair in the Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio region, and you want to avoid big auto glass, go with Mom and Pop, or in this case, the Pop, and go check out Sineco Glass. Tell Rick we sent you. Very nice, man.
17:51Chuck Bryant:They do great work. I can't think of any better way for short stuff to be out. That's right. We're out.
17:59Chuck Bryant:Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
18:02Josh Clark:For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
18:05Chuck Bryant:Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From the publisher
Once upon a time there were these things called phone books. Inside you could find the phone number and address of just about everyone in your town. Can you imagine?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
