SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: The Mystery of the Mary Celeste

8:24Josh Clark:I don't think that movie's even out yet, actually. At least not in Atlanta. We're like a second-tier city.

8:31Chuck Bryant:Yeah, that's true. But I suspect not for long because I think Atlanta has actually surpassed L.A. now as far as film production goes. Have you heard that?

8:42Josh Clark:I could certainly believe it.

8:44Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

8:45Josh Clark:So does that mean we're second tier and L.A.'s third tier? Maybe so. All right.

8:49Chuck Bryant:2.5. All right.

8:51Josh Clark:So are you talking early November 1872?

8:55Chuck Bryant:Yes, November 4th to be exact, a Monday.

8:58Josh Clark:Are you talking about the Astor House in New York City, New York?

9:01Chuck Bryant:Yeah, man. And this was at a time where, like, have you ever read Devil in the White City?

9:05Josh Clark:No, man. I still have not read that.

9:07Chuck Bryant:You should read it. It's pretty good. But one of the things that the book does is it reproduces menus from these dinners that they had when they were planning the expo. And these things were like, they had chapters, basically. They'd smoke cigarettes in the middle. There'd be a cigarette round because you had to do something to keep all of this food down and help the process of digestion. It was crazy how much they would eat. So I can imagine the food was pretty good at the Astor House in 1872. Yeah, but everything back then was like crown roast and rack of lamb.

9:41Josh Clark:Yeah. It was just like huge trays of beef.

9:45Chuck Bryant:Right, live pig that you beat to death at your table and then start eating. God. They did it, believe me. The Time Life books told me so. That's right.

9:54Josh Clark:All right. So at this dinner table, we have a few people. We have one, Captain David Morehouse, and then his buddy. He was a ship's captain. His buddy, another ship's captain, because, you know, they tend to hang out with one another.

10:07Chuck Bryant:Sure.

10:08Josh Clark:Captain Benjamin Spooner, Briggs. And they're sitting down with Briggs' wife, Sarah. And I don't know, did Morehouse have his wife there, or was he badging it?

10:18Chuck Bryant:That's not the impression I have. I think that Sarah was there because she was shipping out the next day, too. I think he was batching it, in other words.

10:27Josh Clark:But they were good buddies, both captains, both set to set sail out of New York for the Mediterranean. And I guess they were just talking shop.

10:39Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I mean, I think they both grew up in Nova Scotia, so they may have known each other there. A couple of salty old sea dogs, but good people from all accounts. And the fact that these guys were having dinner in New York on November 4th, 1872, totally unremarkable in most senses, right?

11:00Josh Clark:Yeah.

11:00Chuck Bryant:But a month later, it would be incredibly ironic. Oh, yes. And tell them why.

11:06Josh Clark:Well, because Morehouse's ship, the, is it DeGratia?

11:12Chuck Bryant:I think so.

11:13Josh Clark:Okay, we'll call it that. D-E-I-G-R-A-T-I-A. DeGracia was sailing along, and we'll get to the specifics of how this happened in a second. But they came upon his buddy ship, the Mary Celeste. And by all accounts, it was probably like, hey, that's Briggs. We need to go over and check out how Spoon's Briggs is doing. Right? And they weren't doing well because nobody aboard the ship was aboard the ship.

11:42Chuck Bryant:No, I mean, just seeing the ship would have caught him by surprise because he shipped out a full week later, bound for the same city, leaving from the same port, so they should have never caught up to that. And then the fact that, yeah, when they boarded it and there was no one aboard, a mystery that endures to this day was born that day.

12:01Josh Clark:That is correct.

12:03Chuck Bryant:Right. So the Mary Celeste, this very famous ghost ship. But what a lot of people don't know, Chuck, is that even before the Mary Celeste became this famous ghost ship, it was already considered pretty unlucky, actually.

12:16Josh Clark:Yeah, so 1860 was when, not even named the Mary Celeste yet, it was called the Amazon at the time, was born in Nova Scotia. And I believe the very first voyage, what you would call a maiden voyage, was to haul some timber to London across the Atlantic.

12:35Chuck Bryant:Yeah, that's what she was used for. Pretty routine. Yeah. Didn't go very well.

12:40Josh Clark:No, it didn't.

12:40Chuck Bryant:No, her first captain was a guy named Robert McClellan.

12:45Josh Clark:Yeah.

12:46Chuck Bryant:And he apparently had had a cold, and when they shipped out, he took such a turn for the worse that they had to turn around and go back home. And he died two days after they got back from pneumonia.

12:58Josh Clark:Can you imagine back in those days, if you get a cold, you're like, well, I've got about a one in ten chance of dying.

13:02Chuck Bryant:Right. Maybe even worse than that, right? Yeah, but think about this. First of all, sailors are a fairly superstitious bunch, right? Yes. So a maiden voyage, anything that's hinky or weird or bad about a maiden voyage, automatically cursed ship. So the captain dying on a maiden voyage that can't even be completed, that's a cursed ship right out of the gate. I would say so. But this is also a business venture, so it's not like the owners gave up on the thing. They said, well, just get in another captain, you superstitious dogs, and get back out there. And that's what they did.

13:39Josh Clark:Yes. And captain number two was John Nutting Parker. Great name. It is a good name. And he also sailed to London. And when they left, they actually encountered some trouble right off the bat. They hit some fishing equipment off the coast of Maine, pressed on, as you do, and did reach London, dumped off their cargo, set sail for home, and as they set sail for home, they actually sunk another boat in the English Channel.

14:09Chuck Bryant:Yes. Cursed ship, cursed ship.

14:12Josh Clark:Yeah, and that other boat was probably like Pixelot. Right, exactly. Amazon.

14:16Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and the captain of the other ship even stubbed his toe on the way down afterward. It was terrible. Insult to injury. So, again, this is a business venture. The owner said, whatever. It was somebody else's ship. Our ship's fine. We're going to keep doing this New York to London timber route. They also did some West Indies trade for a while, and everything was fairly normal for a while. And then a freak storm caught this ship. And I'm not a seafarer by any means whatsoever. Yeah, same here. So I don't know if this actually is an inordinate amount of things to happen to one ship. But it does seem like a lot in just less than a decade for a single ship.

15:02Chuck Bryant:So the first captain dies. Second captain sinks another ship. They run into some fishing tackle. And then in October of 1867, she's run aground in a storm and is so bad off that the owners say, we're abandoning her.

15:17Josh Clark:Yeah, that must be pretty bad. So they literally left the ship there to decompose, or I guess you would call it rot if you're wooden. Sure. I guess wood decomposes, right? Or is that just rot?

15:29Chuck Bryant:I think rot is more slang. Okay. It sounds grosser, too. Like cool.

15:35Josh Clark:Right. And at that point, the ship was bought by a dude named Alexander McBean, also from Nova Scotia.

15:43Chuck Bryant:Also a great name.

15:44Josh Clark:And then he, I mean, the ship is changing hands, basically. He sold that shipwreck. And I guess that was just a thing at the time. You would buy a shipwreck, maybe sell it and turn a quick profit. Probably not a ton of money. But he sold that shipwreck to a dude who then sold it to another dude named Richard Haynes. So he paid about$1 ,750 for it, which is about$32 ,000 according to our favorite inflation calculator, which is? West Egg. That's correct. It's just got a good name.

16:21Chuck Bryant:Plus it's easy to use, and it's been around forever.

16:25Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, I think it goes up to 2016 now, which is pretty good. That's pretty good. They're always just like a year behind, which I can respect. That's fine.

16:33Chuck Bryant:They need the data.

16:35Josh Clark:So Haynes went through bankruptcy, and that boat was seized. And then that was sold to a group led by a man named James Winchester.

16:43Chuck Bryant:Okay.

16:44Josh Clark:And Haynes had fixed it up a little bit, but Winchester really put a lot of money into it, lengthened it to over 100 feet, added a deck. Basically, the show would have been called Flip This Brigantine.

16:57Chuck Bryant:It was starring Vanilla Ice. You like that one, huh? I've seen that show. Have you seen it? For like five minutes of it. I'll tell you this. This proves that I relaxed this vacation. You ready? Yeah. I got hooked on an Animal Planet show called Insane Pools.

17:18Josh Clark:Have you heard of it? I do watch one of those pool shows, but I don't think it's that one. It's another one.

17:25Chuck Bryant:I was like, I have to go to bed now or else I'm going to be up until like 5 a.m. watching this marathon about a pool renovation show that has nothing to do with animals. Yeah, yeah. It was bizarre how it just got its hooks in me.

17:40Josh Clark:Yeah, that happens from time to time with me too. And you know what scares me about those pools, though, is most of them are just amazing. and you have grottos and waterfalls and all that cool stuff. But some people opt for those death tubes where you can swim through a thing to another thing.

17:57Chuck Bryant:Oh, I haven't seen one with that yet.

17:59Josh Clark:Yeah, they're like, hey, we want to be able to swim through a tube to another part of the pool and potentially get stuck and die. That's how I see it.

18:08Chuck Bryant:That would be really awful.

18:09Josh Clark:I don't think that ever happens, though.

18:11Chuck Bryant:They need to just leave a stick of butter at the mouth of that thing so you can grease yourself up real good as you're going through. You know? Your pool would just have a sheen of butter floating at the top. It kind of rots in the sunlight.

18:25Josh Clark:I worked at a pool like that once. That's grody. It was not butter, but there was a sheen. I don't know what it was. I'm sure it was sunblock. Yeah, I guess so.

18:34Chuck Bryant:Has to be. What else is it going to be? I don't know. Body funk? It could be. There's probably a little body funk mixed in there. But does that cause a rainbow sheen? Oh, a rainbow sheen? No. I don't know what that was. There should not be a rainbow sheen on your pool unless you had pool swimmers covered in gasoline going into your pool. That would explain it. Well, that might have been it.

18:57Josh Clark:Okay. All right. So Winchester – and by the way, Winchester is just the major investor. There was a very notable other investor, and what was his name?

19:08Chuck Bryant:Oh, you're asking me. Yeah. It's been a couple weeks, hasn't it? Sorry about that. You were just staring up in his face. That was weird. His name was Benjamin Spooner Briggs.

19:19Josh Clark:Right. Who you will notice is the dude from Dinner.

19:22Chuck Bryant:Yes. So he's not only the captain of the Mary Celeste, he was a two-fifth stake investor in it. And what's notable is that at the time he invested in the Mary Celeste, he and his brother were actually considering getting out of the sailing game.

19:40Josh Clark:Yeah.

19:40Chuck Bryant:and buying a hardware store together in New Bedford, Mass. And instead, Briggs said, no, you know what? This is too good of a deal. This is a great ship. I'm going to pour my savings into a two-fifths stake. And not only that, I'll be the captain of it. And not only that, for its maiden voyage, I'm going to bring my wife and daughter along with me.

20:02Josh Clark:Yeah, it's one of those sliding doors things. Like, should have gone into hardware.

20:07Chuck Bryant:Yeah, rather than sailing into history.

20:11Josh Clark:So, by the way, that is when the ship was officially renamed the Mary Celeste from the Amazon is when it was re-registered, I guess. And I looked it up. I was kind of curious because there is a Marie Celeste, which is a fairly famous World War II – or I'm sorry, Civil War ship. And I was just curious where the name came from, and nobody really knows. But they said there is a theory that it was an error by the painter because it's an English and a French name, and it's just a weird mix-up.

20:39Chuck Bryant:Yeah.

20:40Josh Clark:To not have been Marie and be Mary Celeste. So they think it might have been either the Mary Sellers or another Marie Celeste. Huh. So either way, who knows?

20:50Chuck Bryant:Well, even today, though, still there's some confusion. If you Google Mary Celeste, Google says, do you mean Marie Celeste? And I say, no, Google, I mean Mary Celeste. It says, do you mean Vanilla Ice?

21:03Josh Clark:Right.

21:05Chuck Bryant:Vanilla Ice flipped this pool.

21:08Josh Clark:So Briggs, like you said, brought along his wife who was at dinner and then their two-year-old daughter, Sophia Matilda. They left little Arthur behind because he was seven and he was in school. And they said, we don't want to take little Arthur out of school.

21:23Chuck Bryant:No, he was already pretty dim-witted.

21:26Josh Clark:Oh, was he?

21:27Chuck Bryant:No, I don't know. Okay. But they didn't want to interrupt his schooling. So they said, Arthur, you stay here with some relatives. and they took Sophia Matilda with them. And this was a huge decision. I don't know if this was unusual or not, but whatever. Briggs said, I'm bringing my wife and daughter with me on this ship on the maiden voyage. And everyone went, oh, brother. I know. They were like, oh, good, good. This will be fun. We'll not only have to work really hard for weeks at sea, we'll also have to entertain your two-year-old whenever she wants our attention.

22:00Josh Clark:Right, and we can't curse.

22:02Chuck Bryant:Right, exactly. So that decision, though, probably had some effects on the voyage overall. It definitely had an effect on who Briggs chose for the crew. He had his wife, his daughter. He was known as a Christian, an upstanding person, apparently didn't drink much, if at all. He was known as fair, just, level-headed, and just an overall honorable person, Not just at sea, but in life, you know, as well, back on land. So he was pretty well regarded. I'm assuming his wife was equally well regarded. And he, because his family was on the boat with him, he went to some trouble to make sure that the seven crew members that he picked were of upright character themselves.

22:53Chuck Bryant:That there weren't any shade balls. Because you don't want any shady sailors out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean with your wife and child. No. You don't want that. So that is to say that the crew of the Mary Celeste on her maiden voyage with Benjamin Briggs, his wife and daughter, were all pretty, pretty top notch dudes. Yeah, for sure.

23:15Josh Clark:So they set sail. What they were carrying was about seventeen hundred, actually seventeen hundred and one to be exact, barrels of what's called denatured alcohol. This is not rum. This is not something you're going to drink. It is undrinkable. It is like fuel, basically, industrial fuel. And they finally set sail on November 7, 1872, bound for Italy, bound for Genoa. And I think we should probably take a break right here. Let's do it. All right. We'll be right back about The Haunted Ghost Ship.

24:24Josh Clark:We'll see you next time.

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25:37Josh Clark:Mom, are we there yet?

25:39Chuck Bryant:Ten more minutes.

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26:19Chuck Bryant:All right, Chuck. We're out at sea. Okay, so there was an investigation, as you can imagine. We'll talk about that more later. But this investigation determined that probably, although they definitely ran into some storms and heavy weather here or there, but most of the voyage of the Mary Celeste was fairly unremarkable overall, right? Yeah, they made it a long way. They did. It wasn't until the last five days before they are suspected to have disappeared that the Mary Celeste's voyage turned a little odd or became a little unusual. And they figured out that from looking at the log books that within that last five days, Captain Briggs decided that he really should have seen land by this time.

27:11Chuck Bryant:And if you're a captain in your chronometer, which is basically like, from what I was reading about this, it's like a portable time zone that you can use for celestial navigation to basically tell exactly where you are in the world. It's a very valuable tool to have at sea, but if your chronometer is faulty, you're not necessarily going to be where you think you are.

27:39Josh Clark:Okay. So based on his calculations with his chronometer, he thought that they should have seen land, the Azores by then.

27:48Chuck Bryant:This island chain in the Atlantic kind of toured Portugal.

27:52Josh Clark:Yeah, it's like just dead west of southern Portugal.

27:56Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I think the easternmost island of the Azores is like 400 miles west of Portugal, something like that. Quite lovely, I imagine. I can imagine too, but I think it's also basically in the middle of nowhere. In the mid-Atlantic.

28:11Josh Clark:Yeah, it's one of those things where if you do the Google map, you will see these tiny specks and nothing but blue.

28:18Chuck Bryant:Right.

28:18Josh Clark:So you've got to start zooming out to see where the heck you are.

28:21Chuck Bryant:Right. It's like the Hawaii of the Atlantic, I think.

28:24Josh Clark:Okay.

28:25Chuck Bryant:So he thought that he should have seen the Azores by then, and he hadn't. So I think he started to get a little nervous because they changed course. They went northward, which he suspected would have taken him toward the Azores. And he may have been either looking to kind of reorient himself or just looking for haven. Who knows? But they know that they did change course and that he wasn't where he thought he was.

28:56Josh Clark:Yeah, and I also get the idea, which will jive with one of the theories, is that he may have been a little nervous having his two-year-old and his wife aboard in general.

29:05Chuck Bryant:Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, it's not just his safety now or even the safety of the crew. It's his little kid and his wife's safety. Of course he's going to be worried about that. Exactly. Man, I can't imagine having a two-year-old on a ship.

29:17Josh Clark:What a nightmare.

29:18Chuck Bryant:I know.

29:19Josh Clark:Good God.

29:20Chuck Bryant:I don't know. Just go on a cruise. You can experience it a million times over.

29:24Josh Clark:Oy. Yeah, because a cruise ship, a modern-day cruise ship is the same as a 19th century sailing vessel.

29:33Chuck Bryant:It's not.

29:34Josh Clark:You're right.

29:35Chuck Bryant:There's nothing to do. No, that's true. Although they did have a melodion, which I had to look that up as well. It's like an accordion.

29:43Josh Clark:Yeah, I don't see why they even call it something different.

29:46Chuck Bryant:Right, an accordion with keys.

29:48Josh Clark:All right, so on, oh, as opposed to what? The little buttons.

29:55Chuck Bryant:Oh. Or maybe it's the accordion with the buttons rather than the keys. It's one of the two. Okay. You know what I'm talking about? It's like a Weird Al Yankovic type instrument.

30:04Josh Clark:Oh, well, we should get Aaron Cooper to write us because he will surely do.

30:08Chuck Bryant:And they, yes, I'm sure. So they would have had that aboard, which would have been all the pleasure you could imagine.

30:17Josh Clark:Yeah, like one wooden doll and an accordion is really going to keep a two-year-old occupied. And a communal salt lick just out there in the middle of the above deck. All right. So the next morning, they wake up, and the Mary Celeste actually sees land, which I can imagine if you were a seaman out there in the 19th century and you're a little worried, there is no more welcome sight than seeing land. You know, after seeing nothing but water for weeks and weeks. So they see land. The logbook says they saw land. They're about six miles from Santa Maria, which is the easternmost of the Azores. And this was sort of the last stop before you hit Portugal.

31:04Chuck Bryant:Right. I can imagine there like there's just he just was so relieved when I saw this land.

31:09Josh Clark:Sure.

31:10Chuck Bryant:So the reason we know this is not because anybody on the Mary Celeste told anybody, at least not verbally. they found the logbook and the log slate which is kind of like you're just keeping track of stuff on the slate before you actually transcribe it into the logbook and the log slate was where they noted that 8 a.m. on November 25th the Mary Celeste sighted land and by their calculations were six miles off of Santa Maria right? That's right. That was November 25th.

31:40Josh Clark:Yes. I guess they just had a nice Thanksgiving. Yeah, maybe. With their salt lick? Yeah. No, they had food, as we will see. Yeah. So, remember the Degatia? Degatia? Degatia? I think that's it, that last one. So, the other ship that was being sailed by his buddy, Captain Morehouse, remember? Seaman John Johnson of that ship said, hey, Cappy, there's another ship out here. And it's about 400 miles further east from where that log had placed that ship, the Mary Celeste.

32:21Chuck Bryant:Not only that, it was a good 10 or 11 days later.

32:26Josh Clark:Right. So this is all spelling trouble. There are only three sails set. The rest of the sails had either blown away, weren't raised. None of this bodes well on Captain Morehouse. I don't think he probably recognized from that distance that it was the Mary Celeste yet.

32:42Chuck Bryant:Right.

32:42Josh Clark:But he sent his first mate, Oliver DeVoe, and second mate, John Wright, and another dude and said, get in that boat, row over there and see what the heck's going on.

32:53Chuck Bryant:Right. So these guys, DeVoe and Wright, were the ones who actually got on deck and investigated the Mary Celeste. And I read this one article that I think just put it so perfectly, like just ropes creaking, like a door kind of banging open and closed in the wind and just utter silence as far as humans are concerned. Nobody on board the ship would be so creepy. I think that Oliver DeVoe and John Wright probably experienced one of the creepiest experiences that any human ever has in the history of people.

33:31Josh Clark:So is it creepier for Josh Clark, Seaman Josh, to get upon this ship and find nobody aboard but everything seemingly okay? Or to see dead bodies in each of the bunks?

33:49Chuck Bryant:It would be – okay, so it depends on the position of the dead bodies. Are they just kind of like crumpled and tossed like they've been thrown down onto the bed or something like that? Or are they sitting up at the dinner table or sitting up in bed? Or is it a Walt Disney ride? That's what I'm saying.

34:09Josh Clark:Yeah, or are they laying there with purple robes and Nikes, Heaven's Gate style?

34:14Chuck Bryant:Yeah, that would be something as well. So to me, creepier is, I think, no one there. I think it would be more horrific to find the bodies, of course. But creepier would be just finding a ghost ship. Okay, I agree, I think. Because there's the absence of something that's supposed to be there, and that's, I think, what would make it so creepy.

34:35Josh Clark:Well, yeah, and I think the thing that really makes it creepy, as we will see, is that it wasn't like, hey, this ship has clearly been pirated. Right. And there's blood on the walls, and people have been killed. There was just nobody there, no signs of distress.

34:53Josh Clark:The sextant, the chronometer? I know, it's tougher than you'd think to say. The chronometer, the nav book, they were gone, but that logbook was still there. So basically, like, there was food, there was drinking water, everyone's clothes were there, that little girl's two, the salt lick was there, her two toys were there.

35:13Chuck Bryant:There was the impression from her sleeping on the bed in the captain's cabin.

35:17Josh Clark:That's super creepy.

35:18Chuck Bryant:It is.

35:20Josh Clark:Yeah.

35:20Chuck Bryant:There was not, there were no signs of violence. There was no signs of panic, no kind of disorder. I mean, some things were out of order, but it was the kind of stuff that you could chalk up to a ship drifting at sea for a week or so. Yeah. By itself. Like a broken compass. Right, a broken compass. Like some of the sails had been blown down onto the deck itself. There was some water in there. Yeah, in the hold. Right, and then one of the things they found, which is a pretty big clue, was an improvised sounding rod, which is basically just a stick with markings on it to show feet, right?

36:01Josh Clark:Yeah.

36:02Chuck Bryant:And you would lower that into the hold to see where the watermark hit. It's just to figure out how deep water is in a hold. So they clearly knew that there was water in the hold because they built the sounding rod, and it had been found on the deck by the two guys from the Dei Gratia.

36:19Josh Clark:Yeah, and it was only about three and a half feet of water by all accounts. And that's not – that sounds like a lot to a guy like me who's not an experienced sailor. Sure. But apparently on a ship that size, that's like no big whoop.

36:30Chuck Bryant:One of the other things that ties in with the water, too, is they had two pumps aboard. Yeah. One of the pumps was found disassembled. So there was basically like these guys came onto the ship and there are all these weird out of context things that were the result of decisions made by people who were now vanished. And they had to try to figure this out. But one of the first things that came into their head, eventually, I think when they went back to the De Gratia and told Morehouse what was going on, in pretty short order, somebody said, well, we should probably take this ship to Gibraltar with us.

37:10Chuck Bryant:How about that? Because there's something called salvage rights. And whether it was your friend who was missing or what have you, you would have been pretty foolish to have just continued on your way and left the Mary Celeste. Because what they found pretty quickly, and this adds to the mystery itself as well, the Mary Celeste was totally saleable.

37:31Josh Clark:Well, yeah, and I don't even think we pointed out that all the denatured alcohol that they were shipping was there and intact. Like, it's not like they had been axed into or, like, what would you, pillaged? Exploded. Or exploded. It was all there. All the gear on board was there. So there was a lot to salvage, in other words. Because not only can you salvage the ship, but the cargo.

37:58Chuck Bryant:Exactly. And what did it come out to?

38:00Josh Clark:Like, between$45 ,000 and$80 ,000 in today dollars is what he could have potentially gotten for salvaging this thing.

38:07Chuck Bryant:Yeah, because at the time, the insurers owed a reward to whoever salvaged a ship like this, and it could run up to 100 % of the value of the cargo or the ship.

38:19Josh Clark:Mutual of Nova Scotia. Right. It would pay good dollars.

38:23Chuck Bryant:Which, I mean, man, you want to see a board stuffed with neckbeards? Yeah. Go to that bank.

38:31Josh Clark:Oh, that's good. All right, so they, like you said, decided to do the smart thing and the right thing, and it was his friend, besides the fact that, I mean, anyone would have tried to salvage the ship, but it was also his pal. So I think that probably had a little to do with him saying, or maybe it was just all the money.

38:52Chuck Bryant:No, I think it was both. I'm sure he was concerned. I've read accounts that he was concerned by this.

38:57Josh Clark:He said, aye, very concerned. Yeah, ar, ar, ar. The end.

39:01Chuck Bryant:So they take this boat. They actually took, there was three guys. One of them was Oliver DeVoe, who was the first mate of the De Gratia. He was in charge of sailing this. Yeah, very important note. Yeah, he sailed with just two other guys, the Mary Celeste. They pumped out the water from the hold. They fixed the sails. And the night of the day that they found it, they set sail for Gibraltar. And just three dudes sailed this thing successfully 1 ,000 kilometers from where it was found onto Gibraltar. Not bad. Where they took it to the salvage court and said, pay up.

39:43Josh Clark:That's right. And this is where things get a little bit weird because there was a man there, the Queen's Proctor in Gibraltar, by the name of Frederick Solly Flood. Man, that could not be more British. I know. And he basically said, hmm, this is – you say there was nobody there at all. There's no explanation for any of this. And you want the equivalent of$2017 of$45 ,000 to$80 ,000?

40:15Chuck Bryant:Thank you, West Egg. We should have done a reverse. I think that was in their dollars,$1872.

40:22Josh Clark:No, it says contemporary estimate. Doesn't that mean?

40:27Chuck Bryant:No, contemporary at the time.

40:30Josh Clark:Oh, okay.

40:31Chuck Bryant:I think that was an estimate in their dollars. Is there such a thing as contemporary at the time? Doesn't that always mean now? I don't know. I could have gotten it wrong. It's entirely possible.

40:43Josh Clark:All right. Well, it's 2018, and we're just figuring stuff out here, folks. So give us a break.

40:50Chuck Bryant:So it's in their dollars, so I'm almost positive.

40:54Josh Clark:Okay. Well, at any rate, he was – Sully Flood said, this seems really hinky to me, guys. And DeVoe, you, sir, since you boarded the thing first, you sailed it here. You are the star witness in this case. He gave his testimony. It was very clear. Nothing weird about it. He was very honest because, by all accounts, he had nothing to hide. but Solly Flood just was suspicious from the beginning.

41:22Chuck Bryant:Yeah, so much so that during this investigation and this would be like going to probate court and all of a sudden the representative for the state accuses you of murdering your grandma whose estate you're in charge of taking through probate and then suddenly there's this murder investigation Without any evidence of anything. Right, just based on the prosecutor's suspicions, right?

41:45Josh Clark:Well, and that Granny disappeared without a trace.

41:48Chuck Bryant:Well, oh, yeah, that's a big one, too. I forgot that part.

41:51Josh Clark:But, you know.

41:52Chuck Bryant:So that's basically what happened to these guys. So they were pretty surprised by this. And Solly Flood launched this investigation. They inspected the Mary Celeste. They found marks on the railing, which Solly Flood was like, these are clearly hatchet marks. There was discoloration on Captain Briggs' sword. This is clearly blood. Well, it turned out that the hatchet marks, the axe marks, were actually from the construction of the ship. That wasn't axe marks, so no violence there. There wasn't blood on Briggs' sword. It was just rust. But Solly Flood was so determined to prosecute these guys that he suppressed the test results that showed that this was not blood on the sword, that it was actually rust.

42:39Chuck Bryant:He really wanted to get these, too.

42:40Josh Clark:Well, yeah, and here's the deal. I think things really ramped up when – here's what happened. Before all of this deep investigation, remember, Morehouse still has his ship that was waylaid. And so he says, hey, Devoe, I've got to stay here for this thing to collect this dough. You just go on to Genoa. You've already testified. And take our cargo of petroleum because I've got to get this stuff here. I'm losing money. And so he did so. And so all of a sudden, Sully Flood was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. oh, he was the number one witness, and you've just sent this guy away, so now I'm super suspicious.

43:18Chuck Bryant:Yeah, but DeVoe came back. He's like, what? What's going on, everybody? What's the big deal? Here's some salami. So finally, Solly Flood just couldn't come up with any evidence of foul play, but apparently did raise enough suspicion that the probate judge said, you know what, we'll give you guys a reward, but it's going to be like a tenth of what you actually deserve. So they got a reward of 1 ,700 pounds, which was jack even in that day. And they were allowed to go on their way. The Mary Celeste was finally released in February. This all began in December. She was released in February to finally carry her cargo of alcohol to Genoa.

44:08Chuck Bryant:Yeah. For Genoa. And that would have been that. And what's weird is when you think about this ghost ship, you just think like, well, obviously they took her out of service or commission. You've got to remember, this is a business venture. A ship in those days, just like they are today, it's a business venture. And business people are not exactly the sentimental types usually. So once she got to Genoa, they got a new crew, a new captain, and put her right back into service again.

44:37Josh Clark:So as you say, it just is back out there on the market again, taking cargo around the world. And it ran aground off a reef of Haiti in 1885. And this was all – this is just kind of a weird ending to this ship that was super unlucky or maybe cursed. Who knows? Of course that stuff isn't real. But it ran aground in Haiti as part of this insurance fraud scheme. So they cooked up this scheme. Who was the, what was the guy's name? The captain? Captain Gilman Perkins. All right, so here's what he did. He basically, it's like any insurance fraud you can imagine today. Like when I was a kid, there was this, you know, I didn't grow up in a big neighborhood.

45:26Josh Clark:I grew up on a street with like seven houses, and it was a dirt road until I was like 12.

45:30Chuck Bryant:With the murder house? No.

45:33Josh Clark:Oh, what murder house?

45:35Chuck Bryant:Was it a murder house or a haunted house? I can't remember. There was one down the street from you that you were scared to death of.

45:40Josh Clark:Oh, yeah. This was that. So that one was torn down, but a big house was built in its place, but the old barn from the murdery haunted house was still there. And my brother and I used to go exploring is what we'll call it now. We basically busted into this barn, and we're just checking things out one day. And then about two weeks later, the thing burned down. and I remember being a little kid and these insurance detectives, is that what they're called? They are now. Insurance, whatever, investigators?

46:14Chuck Bryant:A claims investigator?

46:16Josh Clark:Yeah, they came by and questioned Scott and I and we're like, what was in that thing? Because this guy is claiming like hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of, I can't remember what all he said was in there. And we were little kids, so we just told the truth. We were like, none of that stuff was in there. We stole that. It was a bunch of old file cabinets and just a bunch of junk. It was just like a junk barn. So I'm not even – I need to ask my mom. I'm not sure whatever happened with that.

46:40Chuck Bryant:That guy's probably still in jail because of eight-year-old Chuck.

46:44Josh Clark:Good.

46:45Chuck Bryant:That's funny.

46:46Josh Clark:You got some guy sent up the river. The law prevailed. But that's basically what happened here is this guy purposely wrecks the ship and says, man, there was a lot of really valuable stuff on board. I was toting a bunch of bass ale, like the real bass ale, that we still enjoy today.

47:04Chuck Bryant:Sure.

47:05Josh Clark:And then what else was there? It was a bunch of really expensive shoes.

47:09Chuck Bryant:Cutlery.

47:09Josh Clark:Yeah, a bunch of cutlery. Fine fish, fine butter. And what was in there? A bunch of garbage.

47:15Chuck Bryant:It was. So this guy purposely runs the ship aground. It's insured by five different insurers for a total of$34 ,000. A lot of dough. In$1872, contemporary dollars. and they probably would have gotten away with this but the captain, Gilman Perkins went ashore and sold salvage rights to this cargo this fine cargo that was supposedly on the ship to a local salvage person in Haiti and had he not conned the salvager then they may, again, they may have gotten away with this But the salvager went aboard to recover this cargo, this bass, this great butter, great shoes, cutlery, all this stuff, and found, like you said, just pure nastiness there.

48:06Josh Clark:It was a bunch of junk ale. A lot of the bottles weren't even filled. There were dog collars instead of shoes. Yeah. What else? The cutlery. No, no, the cutlery was dog collars. These boots were old galoshes.

48:20Chuck Bryant:Yeah, the women's fine shoes.

48:23Josh Clark:and the butter was

48:25Chuck Bryant:rank slush I think is what it was called so this con man or the salvagers like I've been conned and alerts the authorities who get on the case and finally track it all the way back to Boston and Captain Perkins the last captain of the Mary Celeste remember the first captain died the third or fourth captain disappeared and the last captain of the ship is facing the gallows for Baratree which is deliberate destroying of a ship. That's a great crime. And narrowly avoided being executed for it. I think the jury came back seven to five and he got off, just narrowly avoided being killed for it.

49:03Josh Clark:Yeah.

49:04Chuck Bryant:I don't know

49:04Josh Clark:why he got off.

49:05Chuck Bryant:The article I read by a guy named Paul Collins supposed that the jury just couldn't bring themselves to kill a person for an insurance fraud scheme. And that was it. And actually, a couple of years after, they changed the law so that Barretree was no longer a capital offense. But you could still get in big trouble for it, but a jury would be more likely to convict if it didn't mean your death, you know? So the Mary Celeste run aground on this reef met its fate when, I guess, the government of Haiti paid for it to be doused in kerosene instead of flame.

49:44Josh Clark:All right, well, let's take a break and we'll come back and talk a little bit about how the legend of the Mary Celeste lived on and then what may have actually happened that faithful day in November.

50:08Chuck Bryant:What if your soda actually did something for you?

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51:24Chuck Bryant:Find your favorite at mccormick.com.

51:28Josh Clark:Mom, are we there yet?

51:30Chuck Bryant:Ten more minutes.

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52:09Josh Clark:free all right so uh the mary celeste it wasn't some huge sensational story of the time um locally it probably got a little news but it wasn't like you know it didn't sweep the world um But there was a story written by one Sir Arthur Conan Doyle called J. Habakkuk Jepson's Statement in 1884. That's the worst made-up name I've ever heard. In Cornhill Magazine, also worst magazine name ever.

52:40Chuck Bryant:Yeah, but it was like a huge magazine at the time.

52:43Josh Clark:Oh, yeah?

52:43Chuck Bryant:Mm-hmm.

52:44Josh Clark:I know it outsold Cornhole Magazine.

52:47Chuck Bryant:Right. Right.

52:48Josh Clark:So he writes a story, and what it is is basically this sensationalistic fake account of the Mary Celeste, but everyone takes it as real.

53:00Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and he renamed the ship the Marie Celeste. I don't know if it was a mistake on his part or whatever, but that also muddies the waters these days, too, as far as Google searches go.

53:11Josh Clark:Yeah, so everyone thought this thing was real. All these basically presented a bunch of things as fact, made up a bunch of stuff like the tea was still hot and steaming when they climbed aboard and the beds were still warm. And it was sailing perfectly and fully sailed and breakfast was half eaten and like there's a cigar still burning. None of this stuff was true. It was all cooked up to make the myth just even creepier. But a lot of people, even today, still think that stuff is kind of true.

53:46Chuck Bryant:Did he make all that up or was it just kind of added to later on?

53:50Josh Clark:Well, I think – I don't know what exactly he made up, but basically over the years, everyone just started adding stuff like that the lifeboat was still there. Right. None of that stuff was true. Right.

54:03Chuck Bryant:So all of those facts, I'm making scare quotes, as you can see, they lend credence to really outrageous solutions to this mystery, right?

54:15Josh Clark:Yeah.

54:16Chuck Bryant:There have been a lot. Well, some aren't exactly outrageous or preposterous. They're just the evidence doesn't support them. Some are just totally outrageous, right?

54:24Josh Clark:Yeah.

54:24Chuck Bryant:So you can kind of divide them into different categories, like the natural phenomenon. There could have been a sea quake, which I guess happens, and that usually disturbs the sea above when the seafloor has a massive earthquake. Water spouts, rogue waves. Remember, we did a really good episode on rogue waves. Oh, yeah. Remember that one? Giant squid, giant octopus. That's a good one. Fall under the subcategory sea monster. that's the natural stuff

54:55Josh Clark:Sigma and the sea monster yeah alright then there's piracy and murder these just for the time would make a little more sense like Conan Doyle said that there was an ex-slave bent on revenge who just wanted to kill white people and that was in his story so that clearly ramped things up There was a movie in the 30s with Bela Lugosi that he was a – one of the crew members was a murderous sailor. With a hook. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. All right. Well, they always had hooks. Captain Briggs was overcome with religious mania, killed everyone and bored, including his family. Yeah. Then killed himself. Then there was the mutiny theory that everyone got into this alcohol that you couldn't even drink.

55:48Chuck Bryant:No, he would die like almost immediately.

55:50Josh Clark:Yeah, I guess just got the drunken murder rampage. You know what happens when you drink a little. You just want to kill.

56:00Chuck Bryant:Right, exactly. Do you remember, I guess in our Prohibition episode, it was shown years on that the U.S. government had poisoned the bootleg hooch supply with denatured alcohol and people died and went blind from it. This is this stuff.

56:16Josh Clark:Yeah.

56:16Chuck Bryant:That's what they put into the supply.

56:18Josh Clark:Well, and then there's just the kind of mundane piratry, like, hey, this was where there were North African pirates. And that's probably what happened is it was just a regular run-of-the-mill pirate operation.

56:32Chuck Bryant:Yeah, but whether it's like any kind of violence, like religious fervor or pirates or something like that, there was not any sign of struggle, remember. And the one lifeboat was missing. So it would seem that if they got off the ship, they probably got off willingly rather than there having been some sort of violence.

56:56Josh Clark:Yeah, and then also the two brothers, there were a couple of brothers who were to the crew members, Volkert and Boy Lorenzen. And they were suspects for a little while because none of their personal possessions were found. Apparently there was no motive whatsoever, and a descendant of them said they had lost all their gear in a previous shipwreck. So just none of that makes any sense. They were good guys.

57:22Chuck Bryant:Right. So it probably was not murder, right? Probably not. Plus also the idea that the crew had come across another ship, pirated it, turned pirate all of a sudden, and were led by Briggs. the idea that, and then just took this other ship and set sail to start a new life elsewhere. Doesn't make much sense on its face, but even if you dig down just one more degree and remember that they left their son Arthur behind, who became an orphan on the day that the De Gratia found the Mary Celeste, it lends even less credence to that. Unless they didn't like Arthur. Yeah, again, he was fairly dim-witted.

58:05Chuck Bryant:They left him behind. Not a very likable kid. He had a real temper for no good reason. Didn't like cake. Who doesn't like cake?

58:11Josh Clark:I know.

58:13Chuck Bryant:So the murder piracy or lastly, so remember the Captain Morehouse dined with Captain Briggs and his wife the night before they headed out.

58:26Josh Clark:Yeah.

58:26Chuck Bryant:And then Captain Morehouse was the one who found the ship and claimed salvage rights to it. The idea that it was fraud and maybe a fraudulent scheme cooked up, that one's really dismissed too, again, by the presence of Arthur.

58:39Josh Clark:Right. Arthur ruined everything.

58:40Chuck Bryant:So you can dismiss murder, piracy, or fraud typically. Yes.

58:46Josh Clark:What about paranormal? Let's go ahead and dismiss that too. Okay. Because I don't think that the Bermuda Triangle ate them or that aliens, it's aliens, man. I don't think that happened.

58:59Chuck Bryant:Yeah, that's a big one.

59:01Josh Clark:So let's just go ahead and not even talk about that too much because that's dumb.

59:05Chuck Bryant:So that Frederick Solly Flood's obsession with this whole thing at the time, contemporarily, presented like the documented evidence we have concerning the case. So it's good that he did this, that he was gripped by this paranoia, this suspicion, right? Yeah. Because we do know some facts about the thing. We know that, like we said, the ship was found with just three sails up and the rest were either blown down or unfurled. The lifeboat was missing. There was a rope dangling over the side from the back of the ship into the water. Nine of the 1701 casks were intact but were actually empty. And on closer inspection, they were made of red oak, which is more porous than white oak, which the other 1 ,701 barrels were made of and were intact and still full.

1:00:01Chuck Bryant:So we know these things about this ship that are actually correct. And they've been put together to kind of create this explanation that, again, isn't definitive, doesn't prove it once and for all what happened. That will never happen now, which I love. But there's a pretty good explanation. I think that we both kind of agree is the likeliest explanation.

1:00:26Josh Clark:Yeah, so those casks that leaked but did not explode or anything, there could have been a smell. There could have been a sound. There could have been just some indication that maybe this ship is about to blow up or we are in danger. They had taken on a little water that might have played into it. But what really everyone thinks played into it is, like we said at the beginning, was he had his wife and toddler aboard. So he was taking no chances, which would thoroughly explain why they got off of that boat really quickly at the very first signs that something could be wrong.

1:01:04Chuck Bryant:Right. So those nine red oak barrels that were empty had 300 gallons of denatured, highly flammable alcohol in them. Yeah, it would have smelled. Yeah, it would have smelled. It could have created a fireball explosion. It could have blown the hatches off. It could have done a lot of things that would have made a reasonable person, especially one that's also concerned for the life of his wife and child, say, the likeliest thing we should do here, the most reasonable thing we should do here, is get off of this ship. So considering that there was this alcohol aboard, some of it was missing, and that the lifeboat was gone, and that the logbook showed that they were within sight of land the last time they'd made any kind of entry, supports the idea that they had all gotten into the lifeboat willingly because probably that alcohol and then the water that the ship had taken on.

1:02:03Josh Clark:Yeah, and apparently in 2006, there was a study at University College of London where they tried to reproduce what that explosion might have looked like. and sounded like. And they did it with butane. So I guess, is that about the same thing?

1:02:18Chuck Bryant:I don't know why they used butane instead of alcohol vapors. I have no idea why, but they feel like it was pretty definitive.

1:02:25Josh Clark:Yeah, and so basically it caused a big, brilliant flame and made a sound. But because it was this vapor, there was no, it didn't like burn everything up. It didn't scorch anything. There was no soot. There was no evidence. So if this would have happened on board, this guy's got his wife and his toddler. that would have been enough to create a panic. And that's where my money is for sure.

1:02:46Chuck Bryant:For sure. And plus also, I mean, like the explosion of the exploding alcohol theory had been around for a while but had been dismissed because they were like, well, it would have left some evidence. But this study showed that, no, it could have actually blown up, scared the heck out of these people and gotten them off this boat into the lifeboat, which they would have had connected to the ship, the Mary Celeste, by this 400 foot or 400 yards. It was a very long rope, inch thick rope, called a halyard. And they had connected the lifeboat to it. And what they supposed happened was that they kept a few of the sails down, some of them still furled, to let the ship keep going, but at a slow pace because they were going to have to ride behind it for an indefinite period of time.

1:03:36Chuck Bryant:and the wind caught it just right, sped the ship up, snapped the line, and then within an hour, the lifeboat was adrift with the Mary Celeste out of sight.

1:03:46Josh Clark:So is the idea that they got in the boat with the rope attached to just say, hey, let's get away from it and see what happens here?

1:03:54Chuck Bryant:Yes.

1:03:55Josh Clark:Okay, and then it just starts going, the rope is gone, and then they're like, well, can't catch it now. Right.

1:04:02Chuck Bryant:And they would have been left adrift at sea to die, which is what everybody thinks happened.

1:04:09Josh Clark:Yeah. And I guess at the time there would be, unless it got really lucky or unlucky and the rowboat eventually washed ashore somewhere, there would just be no trace, right? Yes. They just were fish food.

1:04:25Chuck Bryant:Yeah, I mean, if they're out in the Atlantic, especially if they just – six miles away from an island that's in the middle of nowhere is pretty middle of nowhere. So if you're in a small boat, it would be very easy to vanish without a trace forever.

1:04:40Josh Clark:Man, I bet that story is the sad one is what those final days were like. Yes. That kid, man. Yeah. Heartbreaking.

1:04:50Chuck Bryant:So that's the story of the Mary Celeste. Good job. Good job you, Chuck.

1:04:56Josh Clark:I feel like we kicked the rest off the sword on this one.

1:04:59Chuck Bryant:If you want to know more about the Mary Celeste, there is plenty more to dig into. This is a nice rabbit hole to jump down if you want to do that kind of thing. Just go search Google, say, no, Google, I mean Mary Celeste, and start off. You'll have fun. In the meantime, it's time for Listener Mail.

1:05:20Josh Clark:I'm going to call this local listener. Hey guys, my name is Sally and I am a sophomore at Emory University. I started listening to Stuff You Should Know two years ago when I was on a school exchange in Beijing. What began as a fun way to bide time and bumper-to-bumper traffic turned into a complete obsession. Your quick banter made me feel at home on the other side of the world. While your engaging and well-developed topics reignited my love of learning. Since leaving Emory, I frequently imagine bumping into you guys in Decatur and Atlanta and having the opportunity to chat about your journey from college kids at UGA to potentially the most interesting and vibrant guys I've heard.

1:05:58Chuck Bryant:Wow.

1:05:59Josh Clark:You're vibrant, buddy.

1:06:00Chuck Bryant:Thank you.

1:06:01Josh Clark:I'm fascinated by how you do what you do, and there's nothing I would love more than to be a fly on the wall of the show. From your creative process to your tangential tidbits, whatever topic you happen to be covering, I am fully captivated by every facet. It's nice, huh? Yeah. I still have not declared a major. She wrote a lot more really nice stuff, but I had to edit it for content. Sure. Or for time. I have still not declared a major, and I'm still essentially a ball of frenetic energy. But you guys have helped me because you helped me tap into that frenetic energy and productively exercise my burning insatiable desire to learn, to think, to question, and to grow.

1:06:40Josh Clark:now as a young adult and until the nurses need to pinch my oxygen tank and physically made me stop well done a million thanks that is sally jinx thanks a lot sally that's pretty great um very

1:06:52Chuck Bryant:sweet yeah it is and good luck with the rest of your schooling okay if you want to get in touch with us and pay us some high compliments like sally did we're always down with that you can tweet to us at joshmclark or syskpodcast. You can hit us up on facebook.com slash stuffyoushouldknow or slash charleswchukbryant. You can send us all an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

1:07:24Josh Clark:For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com.

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