SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: What was the Philadelphia Experiment?

23:41Chuck Bryant:Right. But, again, like the stuff he was saying was, it was curiosity arousing in these guys. And they actually took, and again, supposedly paid for out of their own pocket, the annotated version of the case for UFOs and published it with annotations. they had a contractor a military contractor called Vero Technologies I think and had them publish it which is weird especially if they were doing it out of their own pocket but it was only 127 copies I imagine it didn't cost that much I saw 25 even and they were like spiral bound so it wasn't fancy I read a lot of this and it's it's you know it's really out there but I imagine if you were UFO enthusiasts, it might interest you.

24:31Chuck Bryant:I mean, if you read Morris Jessup's stuff, it's out there, too. Well, imagine reading that with the annotation from this other dude. Yeah, I was going to say, I get the impression that Carlos Allende's stuff is even more out there. Yeah, you can get it online. There's PDFs of it if you want to. Oh, the Vero? Oh, yeah. But supposedly there's a lot of Forge copies as well. Oh, really? In circulation, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. This seemed real. So why would someone take the time to forge a copy of the Crackpot Manifesto? That's a question we should all be asking ourselves. So Jessup's story ends just a couple of years later.

25:10He was down on his luck, and he got injured really badly in a car accident, had a bad breakup with his wife, and he killed himself. He put a hose from his car exhaust into his window. and this is one of the other reasons that conspiracy theory, anytime there's a suicide and there's the government involved, it's pretty easy to say, he didn't kill himself, the government killed him.

25:36Chuck Bryant:Right. It's made all the more suspicious though because supposedly, it was the day that he was to meet a friend who he had told, I've made a breakthrough in the Philadelphia experiment case. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, he turns up dead of a suicide. So, I mean, And that and the ONR guy showing up at his door definitely has kept this thing alive. It has. Supposedly his friends came out and said, no, he was deeply depressed and he had talked of suicide in the months before he committed suicide. Yeah. But then I'm sure conspiracy theorists will say, they paid them off, man. Yeah. Those people said, you can let my family go now, Navy.

26:16Chuck Bryant:Exactly. They did what you said. And the Eldridge had a pretty, well, it didn't go on to like great things. It was sold to Greece or transferred to Greece, renamed the H.S. Leon, used in exercises and then sold for scrap metal in the 1990s. Yeah. So no big deal with the boat, right? No bigs. So we'll take another little break here and we'll come back and we'll talk about what really happened in the Philadelphia shipyard that day.

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28:33Chuck Bryant:One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Knock, knock, knockin' at the door. Knock, knock, knock. Get out the door. Five, six, who is it? Five, six, who is it? It's Cowie and Elliot. It's Cowie and Elliot. Lingo Kids, only suitable for kids. If it gets stuck in mom's head, that's not our problem. Lingo Kids! Everything kids love. Download now for free.

29:12Chuck Bryant:All right, what really happened, Josh? Nothing. That's supposedly what really happened. Apparently on that day in the naval shipyard, I guess either July or October, but July I think is the one that people typically, if they just think it was a one-day thing rather than two separate experiments, it's usually July that they point to, which they did in this article too. Yeah. On that particular day, the USS Eldridge wasn't even in Philadelphia. Yeah, this is the part I don't understand. It was in Brooklyn. Yeah. So here's the thing. That revelation came out in 1999. We'll get to that in a minute.

29:49Chuck Bryant:Prior to this, there is a researcher. He's an astrophysicist and ufologist named Jacques F. Vallée. And he was actually the inspiration for the ufologist Frenchman character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Yeah. And he was also like a venture capitalist. He's a pretty sharp dude. He just had some unusual interests, right? But one of the things that he dedicated himself to was disproving the Philadelphia Experiment, proving that it was a hoax. He was a skeptic, right? Yes. In some manner, he was a skeptic. Yeah. So he wrote a paper, and in the paper he invited people to reach out to him if they had further information about the Philadelphia Experiment.

30:31Chuck Bryant:and as a result, allegedly, he was contacted in 1994 by a guy named Edward Dugin or Dugin. Let's say Dugin. It's a little more pleasant than Dugin. I bet his friend called him the Dungeon. Yeah, I'll bet. You know? Yeah. That's what I would have called him. Yeah. So yeah, he responded. The paper was called Anatomy of a Hoax, colon, the Philadelphia Experiment 50 Years Later in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. And Dudgeon got in touch and said, you know what? I was in the Navy from 42 to 45. I was on that boat, and I can explain what happened. Yeah. Which is pretty exciting. Well, he was on the Engstrom, which was there at the same time.

31:14Oh, I thought he was on the actual boat.

31:15Chuck Bryant:No, he was an electrician on the Engstrom, but he said he was fully aware of all of the electrical components on the Engstrom and on the Eldridge. Yeah, because they all party together. Sure, exactly. That actually comes up later. So he basically had a pat and completely sensible and reasonable answer for every single part of the Philadelphia Experiment. For example, part of the Philadelphia Experiment legend is that a brawl broke out in a bar following the experiment, and two of the sailors on board the Eldridge suddenly disappeared. They vanished. Yes. Well, Dugin says, I was one of those guys.

31:59Chuck Bryant:I actually faked my age on my Elizabeth paper. So I was underage and shouldn't have been in the bar. And the bartender took pity on me and another underage dude and shoot us out the back door and then pretended that she'd never seen us. So they disappeared. They disappeared, exactly. Out the back door. Another one, he says, well, he explains the whole thing, basically, right? He says there was no experiment like that, but they were doing something that might have seemed freaky to the uninitiated, and that was degaussing the ships. Yeah, at the time, Germany and I guess everyone else really in the navies around the world, they had magnetic mines, sea mines, which would find your boat and go, ooh, that's metal.

32:44Let me go stick on that thing and blow up.

32:46Chuck Bryant:Yeah, and torpedoes that were magnetic-seeking too. Yeah, and they thought, you know what, let's come up with a way to make our ship hulls and our metal parts non-magnetic to these obstacles. Right, which is an established project, I guess. Or an established, what's the word I'm looking for? Process. Sure. So I was close with projects. Yeah, it was a real thing. Yeah, it's called degaussing, and it basically either changes or gets rid of the magnetism of something that was formerly magnetic, like the ship's hull. It does not make it invisible to radar or otherwise. But it probably looks pretty weird, right?

33:26Chuck Bryant:So they wrapped the ships in hundreds and hundreds of meters of cable and then ran a really high-voltage electrical charge through it. and supposedly this would demagnetize the ships, which really came in handy because at the time, just outside of America's coastal waters was called the Graveyard of the Atlantic because German U-boats were running the show out there at this time. Yeah, and as we learned in our did Nazis invade Florida, they sometimes were parked right off the coast. Exactly. So they were taking out our destroyers and our cruisers and our battleships. So this was a big deal to be able to do that kind of thing.

34:06Chuck Bryant:Although, and it was classified stuff, it wasn't experimentation in anything that hadn't been proven before. It was like, we're just demagnetizing our battleships. Yeah, they could have had a big sign up that said, degassing at work, stand back. Yeah. It was no big super secret thing. Right. But if you're a Nazi, don't read this sign. Right. The other thing that Dudgeon addressed was the concept that the Eldridge disappeared from the Philadelphia shipyard, reappeared in Norfolk, and then reappeared back in Philadelphia. Well, that happened, but it just went there and then came back. Right, but it didn't happen in like five minutes or ten minutes or 30 seconds.

34:52Chuck Bryant:No. But, again, he points out, like, if you were just casually paying attention, you might have seen the Eldridge in Philadelphia that night and then noticed it was missing late at night and then noticed it was back in the morning. Yeah, which would seem impossible because that was supposedly a two-day trip. Yeah, two days including there and back. Yeah. The round trip was two days up the coast. But apparently the Navy had a canal that they used. I think the Delaware-Chesapeake Canal. that only the military could use, and they could make that round trip in six hours. Yeah, so in other words, it's easily explainable that it just simply, I keep wanting to say sailed, but it's not sailing.

35:35Chuck Bryant:I think they still call it that. Do they? Set sail, yeah. Ship out. Yeah, it shipped out and took off. Shipped back in a regular amount of time, and it just became part of the lore. Yeah, and I mean, you can even tack on a few hours there. apparently Norfolk was where they outfitted it with their explosives. And apparently they could load a battleship in four hours. So even taking that into account, it's still 10 hours. If it shipped out at 11pm, which is what Dugin says Right? Dugin? I think he went with Dugin. Yeah. He says that it shipped out at 11 it'd still be back by 9am. Yeah. So again, if you're just casually paying attention, what seems pretty mysterious, really took on legs over time.

36:22Chuck Bryant:It's basically like a game of telephone, like any conspiracy theory. Sure. Maybe there's a kernel of truth that got exaggerated by some drunken sailors, and then bam, it gets shrunk down to 10 seconds through a teleportation experiment. Well, and these sailors, the drunken sailors supposedly could have been overheard saying things like, you know, they're going to make their ship disappear, they're going to make us invisible, when in fact what they were saying is they're going to make it more or less invisible to these mines, got all twisted around. It wasn't literally invisible. Yeah. And so there were apparently tons of merchant seamen around the area as well.

37:00Chuck Bryant:Yes. So again, this would have been classified stuff. If there had been loose lips, which sink ships. They do. And somebody had said, like, we're going to make it invisible. Like you said, they would have picked up on that. Maybe they were the ones who were just casually paying attention to the eldritch here or there, and it just seemed to disappear and reappear. And there's this guy named Robert Gorman, and he, in a 1980 Fate magazine article, wrote about tracking down Carlos Allende. He was from the same hometown as him. And it turned out that he already knew the guy's father. He just didn't realize that he was Carlos Allende's father.

37:43Chuck Bryant:or Carl Allen's father. Your old man Allen's son? Yeah, pretty much. And he managed to interview the family and get a pretty good picture of the guy. But one of the things that he found was Carl Allen's merchant semen papers. Yeah. So it's entirely possible he was there around the time, or if he wasn't there at the time, he may have known somebody who was there at the time. I could totally see him have been there, and that's probably how he got the idea to cook it up. Right, okay. I believe all that. Yeah, and again, all of this lands squarely on the desk of Carl Allen because no one, no one talked about the Philadelphia Experiment.

38:21Chuck Bryant:It was never, those words were never put together until his first letter to Morris Jessup, right? So it appears to have been totally fabricated by him. Yeah, and after the movie came out, people started coming out of the woodwork. This guy. Including a dude named Alfred Bialik. Have you been to his website? Oh, yeah. He's something else. He made a video called The Philadelphia Experiment Part 1, Crossroads of History. And he claims that he was a physicist on board the Eldridge, and he was a part of the team. And not only that, he says he time-traveled in 1943 all the way to 1983 during the experiment to tell his story.

39:07Chuck Bryant:That sounds extremely close to the plot of the Philadelphia Experiment movie. Yeah, and sure. Except it was a little different. In the movie, he travels from 1943 to 1984. We shouldn't mock this guy. It's a fascinating website. Yeah. But he puts himself squarely at the center of the Philadelphia Experiment, and he also says that he was part of the Montauk Project. Yeah, which they're sort of tied together somehow. Yeah, well. We should do one on that at some point. Somehow this guy wrote a book where he just basically made this stuff up out of whole cloth. Yeah. He says that the book, whether you take it as science fact or science fiction, you're in for a really great story, even though it's basically loaded with soft facts.

39:57Chuck Bryant:This is the author and the preface, right? Yeah. But basically it's this extension that the Philadelphia experiment was wildly successful, and from that we learned all sorts of things like getting in touch with extraterrestrials, being able to teleport everywhere, just doing all sorts of really interesting things. Basically, anything you can possibly think of that a conspiracy theorist would enjoy is crammed into this book, and it's given a bit of gravitas by associating it with the Philadelphia experiment. You know? Yeah. In some quarters, man. In some quarters. That definitely gives some gravitas.

40:33This green glow has been explained away by most people as maybe an electrical storm or St. Elmo's fire. And it was just, you know, maybe just another part of this story that people took and ran with it. Or maybe it was nothing at all.

40:51Chuck Bryant:Yes. It also could have been the Office of Naval Research put out a fact sheet on what they understand about the Philadelphia experiment. and they said it's possible another origin or the origin of that specifically was experiments with the USS Timmerman later on after the war in the 50s where they tried to use a small generator that was higher power than the generator that was currently on board and it actually caused coronal discharge, a glow. And they said that no one was injured, no one was enmeshed into the ship. No. It was just a glow was created which is what you'd expect from a very strong electrical field, right?

41:30Chuck Bryant:Yeah. So they think possibly that combined with the degaussing stuff they were doing during World War II came together and helped this legend take off. But what they say also, though, and what was supported by this reunion of USS Eldridge sailors in 1999, is that even the guy who debunked and discredited everything that Carlos Allende said, And Dudgeon, he was full of it too, apparently. Because the USS Eldridge wasn't in Philadelphia then. It was in Brooklyn. Yeah, they got together in Atlantic City. And I read an article on this meeting. And they had a good laugh and said that one of them even has something about it on his license plate.

42:14Just so people will ask him about it. And a few of them said they would pull people's legs and say, like, oh, no, I disappeared. And my hand was caught in the ship. And then they would say, no, none of that happened. but they said that it was in Brooklyn and the ship's law confirms that so apparently it wasn't even in that shipyard that day at all so that's the only part where I'm like well wait a minute how could they completely invent that it was even in the shipyard why wouldn't they just use a ship that was there

42:46Chuck Bryant:because this guy it would give it a little more credence if there was at least a ship there but that's what I'm saying Carl Allen And he said all this. He was the one who just came up with it from the beginning. Yeah, but I don't know. It just seems a little weird that he didn't care at all about making it believable by picking a boat that was actually there. Well, that's what I'm saying. He may have been there at the time. He may have known that the Eldridge was there and just fudged the date because he couldn't remember because this is like 12 years later, 12 or 13 years after the fact. You know what I mean?

43:17Chuck Bryant:Bad memory. Right. so maybe he just got the date wrong and the thing really did happen and then the ONR would be like oh that experience yeah oh yeah we teleported a battleship you just got the date wrong so we've mentioned quite a few things here that why this thing has lived on through the years there that Jacques Vallée theorizes that you know anytime you have like a movie made about it or any kind of imagery whether it's a photo of the Loch Ness Monster to a photo of the Montauk Monster people are going to have something physical to point to and say, look, they made this movie and that's when people started coming out of the woodwork was after the movie.

43:56Saying, oh yeah, I was there, I remember that now. Michael Perret just reminded me of this thing that happened.

44:02Chuck Bryant:He also, my favorite thing on his website is that he met the person that he later realized was the actor Mark Hamill in Hawaii in 1956. But Mark Hamill would have been five at the time. Well, did he say he was a nice little kid? I don't think he was a kid. He said he's a full-grown adult. Interesting. What else? The fact that it's the federal government, of course, and the military, you know, people are going to run with that stuff. Which, I mean, that's the military's fault. Oh, well, yeah, sure, they did secret experiments, still do. Tons of them. Yeah. Back in 1993, some stuff got declassified, and it really opened people's eyes to the fact that the government and the military experimented on uninformed and unwitting subjects, not just in its ranks, but also in the general public.

44:55Chuck Bryant:So yeah, it's totally, the idea that the military would do this with its own people on board. Yeah, that's believable. Probably the most believable part of the whole thing. Agreed. And also just throw Albert Einstein in there, throw in secret scientific theories that haven't been proven, and it's just ripe for the picking when it comes to conspiracies. And the suicide, of course. Like we mentioned earlier. That definitely doesn't help. It did not help the case any. But this is one that I had a hard time finding people that still believe this. Yeah, I think a lot of people aren't aware of it even.

45:38Chuck Bryant:Except for the movie. You know what else helped it get legs? There was a book in 1979, and it was called The Philadelphia Experiment Project Invisibility and it was reprinted in excerpts in papers around the country as fact or non-fiction in 1979 It doesn't help things, you know? I personally, with all conspiracy theories I enjoy reading this stuff. I think it's fun and funny and interesting There aren't any that I really believe in. But I do think it's funny when people get all up on their hackles and write in. That, you know, you guys are making fun of this stuff and it's, you know, you don't know.

46:23Chuck Bryant:It could be real. Well, that's the other thing, man. I'm glad you brought this up because just being like, no, this is not possible. That's stupid. Stop thinking stuff like that. It's like, no, this is, at the very least, people using their imaginations and exercising it in ways that I don't typically do. Sure. And so it is nice to come kind of visit it and check it out and read it, you know? Yeah, although I claim to have seen a ghost. So what do I know? Exactly. Although, I have to say, probably the best excuse against this, there are two things that just say, just on its face, this isn't right.

46:56Chuck Bryant:One, this happened 70 years ago, and if the military successfully transported a battleship, we would know about teleportation by now. Yeah, they'd be doing it all over the place. Exactly. The second thing was a quote from Robert Gorman, the guy who tracked down Carl Allen, in that 1980 Fate magazine article. He wrote, If we are to believe Carl Allen, our naval hierarchy, abandoned sanity and historical precedent by conducting an experiment of enormous importance in broad daylight using a badly needed destroyer escort vessel. Yeah. I think that kind of sums it up nicely. Agreed. But go forth and read about the Philadelphia Experiment because it is interesting stuff.

47:37Chuck Bryant:Watch the movie. Meh. Why not? Is it on Netflix? No, it's on YouTube. I thought you watched it on YouTube. Yeah. I can't believe you made it through it. I did. I'm telling you. I mean, I was working too. I had two windows open. Okay, there you go. It was fine. Yeah. It was fine. It's as believable as Tron. That's Josh's review. Let's see. If you want to know more about the Philadelphia Experiment, you don't have anything else, right? No, sir. You can type those words in the search bar at HowStuffWorks. And since Chuck said Tron, it's time for Listener Mail. I'm going to call this email from an up-and-coming podcaster in Georgia Bulldog.

48:24Nice. Hey, guys. My name is Bailey. I'm a junior mass media arts and theater student at good old UGA. Go Dawgs. Woof, woof. My professional identity aside, I'm also a longtime listener and lover of you guys. I listened to my first episode on the bus home from seventh grade. That's so... Wow. I'm pretty sure it was an episode on brainwashing. So she's in college now. I mainly listen to y 'all as I'm working on my on-campus job bus driving. Did you ever take the buses in Athens, the student bus?

48:58Chuck Bryant:I was so crippled with social anxiety that if I couldn't find a parking space, I would just skip class because I didn't want to get on the bus. You had social anxiety? Mm-hmm. Really? Mm-hmm. Like, didn't want to get to know anyone? I just couldn't bear being around peers at that age. Really? Yeah, interesting. the buses were always a little scary because it was like, here's a 40-foot long bus full of students and it's driven by a 19-year-old. Driven by a student. Yeah. Well, it's scary for me for different reasons, but I can imagine it was scary for that reason too. Yeah, it took them a few times.

49:31Chuck Bryant:I mainly walked.

49:35Okay, where was I? Bus driving. So my passengers have the honor of listening to you as well. Oh, I guess she plays it out loud. That's nice. That is nice. That's the party bus right there. I guess so. The other day I was driving, I realized it's my destiny to produce and host a podcast on campus. We don't really have anything like that, so I'm excited about it. My idea is to have me and another host be constants on the show and every week bring in a different UGA professor or Athens professional or general awesome person to talk about the one thing in their field that fascinates them the most for about 30 minutes.

50:08It would include informal conversation between the three of us about a topic highly inspired by y 'all's witty banter. Nice. Anyway, because you guys are my muses, I wanted to ask if you had any advice for a baby bulldog podcaster. As an MMA major, I feel like I have the basic knowledge and resources for the technical side, but as far as what makes a good episode, I'm feeling pretty shaky. What is your environment like? How much do you prepare for the actual script? Do you have a specific formula for every episode? I'm fascinated. And that is Bailey Johnson.

50:43Chuck Bryant:You got any advice? I will give you the same advice I would give anybody starting out in podcasting. Bailey, get good mics. It's worth the expenditure. Make it sound good. They probably have them on campus, I'm imagining. Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you can finagle your way into a studio with good mics. Yeah, do it. Yeah, do whatever you need to do to get that done. And then release on a reliable schedule. Those are the two keys to begin with. I mean, as long as you're releasing on a reliable schedule, people will come to appreciate what you're doing. Yeah, and my advice as far as scripting goes is, we've said this a billion times on different interviews, but we don't script stuff out and we don't go over stuff with each other.

51:28We just do our own research and try and have as natural a conversation as possible, which I think has helped our show out. That's not to say that you need to do that.

51:37Chuck Bryant:No. But I think being relatable and conversational helps rather than feeling like you're being read a script. I don't know a lot of people that would be as into that. So my advice would be try to make it conversational. You know, maybe go over it with whoever your co-host is some at first. She's a theater major, right? Yeah, you should be pretty good at this stuff already. So, yeah, I'm sure she's good at ad-libbing. She probably finds comfort in the idea of a script. I don't think there's anything wrong with starting out trying that, but if it doesn't feel right or you're not getting good feedback about it, then try something else.

52:13Yeah, I guess I would say maybe try, instead of a script, try an outline that you share with each other. The poor man's script. Yeah, so you've got a little roadmap ahead of you, and we've been doing this for so long, we don't need that. We don't need an outline. But we have our own roadmap that we share via our brainwaves.

52:35Chuck Bryant:Yes. Roadmap to the White House. It's just not written down. 2016. So those are our points of advice. We don't have a specific formula. We just try to talk about things that we find interesting. I think that's a key too, man. Yeah, be into what your own topic is because that'll show for sure. Yeah. Although we've also found that just about everything is interesting if you dig hard enough. Everything has a story. Yeah. So if something's really boring you, maybe abandon it, but you can also try digging harder. Agreed. So good luck, Bailey. Send us a link when that's up, and we'll plug it for you.

53:12Chuck Bryant:And since you're doing an interview show, your goal should be with each interview to make that person cry. You know what, Bailey? I'll even be on your show if you want. Whoa. Ooh. Nice. Yeah, I'll do that. If you get it up and running and you need somebody, I'd be happy to sit in. That is so nice. Why not? I will, too, if you want. I don't know if I'll go to Athens. Yeah. Not that I don't like to, but it might just be easier to do it on the phone. Okay. We'll see. Bailey, he's laid it out there for you. Get in touch. All right, Bailey. Good luck. Class of 17. That's crazy. Yep. Who started listening in seventh grade.

53:51Chuck Bryant:Goodness me. If you want to get in touch with Chuck or I, Chuck or me, you can tweet to us at SYSK Podcast. You can join us on Facebook.com slash StuffYouShouldKnow. You can send us an email to StuffPodcast at HowStuffWorks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, StuffYouShouldKnow.com.

54:19For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com.

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55:04Chuck Bryant:Ten more minutes. Only ten minutes? Can you drive slower? What's up with them today? Lingo Kids. That app we downloaded last week? They love it. The games, this funny baby bot character. Kids, we're almost there. No! With more than 4 ,000 interactive games, songs, and shows little ones can't get enough of, Lingo Kids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids. Why didn't we download this sooner? Lingo Kids! Everything kids love. Download it for free. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.