SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Harrowing Story of the North Hollywood Shootout

27:50They were the kind of bank robbers that you see in the movies, but that don't actually exist in real life. These guys existed in real life. They would knock down old ladies and put guns in their faces. They would tell moms that if they didn't shut their kids up, they were going to kill their kids. They fired wildly into the air. They fired wildly into the bank. They just shot everything up everywhere. They were really abusive. They were really tough. They were really scary. And they were also really on point as far as like knowing where the money is, knowing who would have access to the money and just making this whole thing work.

28:26They had also figured out that they had about eight minutes before the average response time. They hadn't noticed the cops watching them walk in. And so they had timer stopwatches on during this whole eight-minute robbery. Yeah, which is what they had in the trunk when the cops pulled them over four years earlier. Yeah. The stopwatch. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, they had this thing planned out, but they also didn't know certain things. Like they asked the bank manager to open up the ATMs. and he's like, I can't open the ATMs. Like, I literally can't do that. So he tried to shoot them open, which did nothing to get into the ATM.

29:03But of course it, you know, bullets ricocheted everywhere and injured the bank manager. They also, you know, would shoot, I think one of them, Phillips, wasn't it? Who literally shot into a safe and like shot up a lot of the money that they could have gotten, ruining that. Out of anger, they learned that the Brinks truck that was supposed to be delivering hundreds and hundreds, about three quarters of a million dollars by their estimate, was running late or had been rescheduled to throw off bank robberies. And out of anger, Emil just shot into a safe and basically just ruined a bunch of cash that they could have taken.

29:40Yeah. There was also a cell phone on the scene, which is not the most common thing in 1997 for sure, but it was L.A. And they locked a bunch of the, there were about 30 bystanders or, you know, just people doing bank business. They separated them out from the tellers and put them in a vault and shut the door. And one of the, I believe one of the women inside had a cell phone. And I'm not sure how much it helped, but she was at least able to be in touch with the cops, sort of describing what she was hearing while all this was going on. Right. This is at a time before people knew what LOL meant.

30:19and one of the cops she was texting with was like, LOL, meaning lots of love, but she didn't take it that way. Lots of love? Mm-hmm. I thought it was laugh out loud. Right. That's what it means. The cop didn't know that. He thought he was saying, like, hang in there, LOL. I got you. I got you. Okay. I'm a little sick today. That's all right. I stole that joke from Family Guy anyway. In the end, though, they did get a pretty good take. They got about$300 ,000 worth of cash. And then I guess we should probably take a break here. But then they exited the bank and all H-E double hockey sticks broke loose.

30:58Yeah.

31:14Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally. And I'm Hari Kondabolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late. and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health and how the world around us affects our overall health.

31:53We talk about all the ways to keep your body and mind inside and out healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the Men's Clinic at UCLA Health and host of the Mailroom Podcast. Each January, guys everywhere make the same resolutions. Get stronger, work harder, fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr.

32:30Steve Poulter, a psychologist with over 30 years experience helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never taught to name. In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof, why shame hides in plain sight, and how real strength comes from listening to yourself and to others. Guys who are toxic, they're immature, or they've got something they just haven't resolved. Once that gets resolved, then there comes empathy, as in compassion. If you want this to be the year you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's underneath, listen to The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

33:12New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast. and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

33:55Okay, Chuck, it's about 925, I believe. Eight minutes has passed. The timer's going off on their stopwatches. And Emil Matasoranu and Larry Phillips are now planning on leaving the bank. They have a duffel bag with about 300 grand in cash. And supposedly, right when they walk out the door, the dye packs in the bag go off and completely ruin the cash. So the cash that they thought was going to be there wasn't there. The cash that they did get was now completely ruined forever because of the dye packs. And they come out and realize that the cops have them surrounded, that this eight minute response time thing doesn't count when the cops watch you walk into the bank with ski masks and AK-47s.

34:40Yeah, like what kind of surrounded are we talking about here? We're talking about surrounded on every side with police helicopters hovering overhead. That's what they walked out of the bank into. Yeah. In the end, there would be more than 300 cops from five different agencies that were engaged in the shootout. So 300 against two. That gives you a little insight into just how much more heavily armed these guys were that it lasted this long. But they walked out to that scene and immediately turned North Hollywood into a war zone. I've watched a lot of video of this stuff. And this is one of the remarkable things is a lot of this stuff is on video.

35:23You know, L.A. is notorious for, you know, anytime something like this is happening, there's six helicopters, news helicopters overhead, like within minutes, just kind of live streaming. Or I guess you wouldn't have called it live streaming then. What would you just say? Broadcasting. Live broadcasting. There you go. Oh, man. It's been so long. You're so 2020s. I am. So, yeah, live broadcasting this thing from above. So you can watch a lot of this take place, which is horrifying. But again, if you've seen enough movies, you're like, yeah, it looks like a lot of movies I've seen. But a lot of the interviews that, you know, since then that have happened with cops that were there and taking place basically said, like, these guys just came out and started shooting at everything that moved.

36:06Citizens, cars, buildings, police cars at the time didn't have Kevlar siding in their doors and stuff. So, like, hiding inside a police car was no good. Hiding behind a police car was better because a bullet going all the way through it at least is going to, you know, ricochet around and probably not go, like, straight into you. But, you know, they were – it was – all of a sudden it was, like, Vietnam out there in North Hollywood. So here's the thing. When the cops had them surrounded and were waiting for them to come out, number one, in the cops' mind, they had no idea if the whole place inside had just been massacred.

36:42because most robbers don't walk in and start shooting into the air. Again, that's movie stuff that these guys were influenced by. So they heard like I think 50 rounds of automatic rifle fire in the bank while they were waiting for these guys to come out. And they didn't know if everyone inside was just completely killed. That was number one. But number two, the cops also presumed based on experience and history that when these guys came out and saw they were surrounded not just by cops and cop cars but also helicopters, that they would just, you know, put their guns down and put their hands up.

37:15So they were surprised at the response that these two guys took on just even just this first initial wave of dozens of cops. And then they were further surprised when the guy's bullets started going right through any Kevlar vests, started going right through their police cars, started going through buildings, through concrete buildings. There was a concrete locksmith, like kind of like a photo mat in the parking lot that they were taking shelter behind. The bullets were going through them. This was it just suddenly turned completely 180 degrees from their expectations. And then even worse than that, they were finding their own guns were having basically just pinging.

37:55The bullets were pinging off of these guys because they were wearing so much body armor. So this is about the moment almost immediately out of the gate when the cops were like, this is nothing like anything we've ever experienced before. And we are outgunned right now. Yeah. And this sounds unbelievable, but it's true. It was so bad right away that the cops realized that and said, if there's any available units, go to the gun store down the street and get everything you can. Like they literally went to a gun store to rearm or, you know, I guess, what would you call it when you raise your armament?

38:34Yeah, I guess so. They leveled up on their guns and they did get guns. Apparently, according to like recovered ammunition and stuff, they didn't actually end up using those in the firefight because I guess, you know, the whole thing didn't last that long. And I'm sure it took a while to, you know, talk the store owner into giving up these guns and getting the matching ammunition and all that. But they sent for backup for themselves by going to a gun store, which is just crazy to think about. And they were like, we need the SWAT team. This is, we're police cruiser guys and we have revolvers or 9mm and this ain't happening.

39:12SWAT team is downtown. Took them about 18 minutes to get there. And they got there, though. They finally showed up, and apparently it was such a quick sort of let's get there quick thing that one of the SWAT officers was about to go on a jog, and he shows up in, like, jogging shorts. Yeah, if you watch, like, the footage of them taking Matasaranu, he's the first one to him, and it's kind of silly looking, to be honest. Yeah. But, so, yeah, this first wave of cops that they encountered, I don't know how many cruisers there were, but let's say there's probably six and maybe a dozen or so cops. There were also two bystanders who got caught in the crossfire, both of whom ended up getting shot by those ricochet bullets going through cop cars that they were hiding behind.

40:00Cops were getting shot, like, through their Kevlar vests. I think a number of cops were injured. And even worse, they were pinned down. They were in what's called the kill zone. Like, these guys were very easily able to shoot any of these people who were fairly close to them. And so these these cops had to basically retreat or be pinned down. And some were pinned down because they were shot. So if you if you kind of watch some of the footage or you, you know, read about it, that kind of gets left out. And that was something I thought that the situation critical documentary really kind of drove home.

40:34Like there were there were some people who were in grave, grave danger in the first, like, 10, 15 minutes of this firefight before backup arrived. And I also saw it described that Phillips and Matasaranu, at one point, especially when they were engaged with that first wave of cops who were totally unprepared and unequipped to deal with them, that they could have made a getaway. And they seem to have decided that they wanted to stay and fight instead. Yeah. That's unusual. And I'm curious about the wisdom of that. like if they had left, if these guys just would have went and got in their car and tried to get out of there.

41:18I don't know. Who knows? I mean, I don't know. The fact that they had a helicopter on them would have made it pretty difficult, but who knows? It could have been way worse. It could have been shorter. Who knows what could have happened? But I think the point was that they, like bank robbers don't try to stick around when they're given the option to try to make a run for it. And these guys. Yeah. I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback this thing years later in my podcast booth because I wasn't the one, you know, getting shot at on the street. So there was one citizen hero among this crowd, which was a dentist.

41:53Dr. Jorge Montes had an office across the street and two cops that were injured, like crawled up the stairs to his office. And he, it sounds like he had saved at least one of their lives. He treated them immediately. and one of the cops had shrapnel in his ankle and Montez was smart enough to be like, we should leave that in there. Like, I'll treat you, but I'm not taking that out because it could get worse. And that officer later said that he probably saved my life because I probably would have bled out. Yeah, that's pretty great. So a few minutes before 10, this firefight has been going on for 30 plus minutes now.

42:32Okay. Phillips and Matasaranu decide that this is a really fateful decision and no one has any idea why, probably will never know why. But Matasaranu gets in their white Chevy Celebrity, the ugliest getaway car ever. Oh, there's one other thing about that white Chevy celebrity. They had it backed up to the bank in a parking space. And so when they came out and they were shooting at the cops and everybody that moved for 30 minutes with their assault weapons, whenever their assault rifle would, like, run out of ammo or jam or something, they'd just throw it down, go to the trunk of the car, and come back with a brand new assault rifle.

43:12And they had, like, drums, like 100-round drums as clips. So they were really doing a lot of damage. And at some point they decided, let's head out. Matasaranu gets in the Chevy Celebrity. And rather than get in with him, Larry Phillips decides to walk alongside, just firing at everybody while Matasaranu slowly drives with him. And then the really fateful decision is made where they decide to split up. and Larry Phillips peels off from Matasaranu and starts walking down the sidewalk of a street, a side street, into a residential area. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think I read a lot about this too. I think he might have thought he was providing some initial cover and the whole split up thing is just, you know, judging from the movies, I think sometimes that's just what they decide to do.

44:06Like, you know, instead of concentrating everything on us, If we split up, that'll split the, you know, the burden or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I get that. I also, based on how quickly things happened after that, it also makes me wonder if it was like, I'm just going to go take my last stand. Well, maybe. I mean, who knows? We're never going to know, basically. And you'll soon find out why. So in the end, Phillips was shot 11 times. He's walking down this side street. Yeah, he's still walking after most of these shots. Yeah, he's walking down the side street. He's firing at everything he can. And he gets, just like in the movies, like an old Western or something, a cop shoots his hand, like shoots the gun out of his hand by shooting his hand.

44:51He reaches down, picks it up, puts it under his chin in an attempt to kill himself, and pulls the trigger. And, you know, it was sort of a bang-bang thing. No one's sure which was the kill shot, But sort of right along that time at either right when it happened or right after he fell, a cop had shot him true romance style through the side of his body where there was no protection, no protective vest, because that stuff is usually like it's on your back, it's on your chest, but kind of not through the side. And he severed his spine and he was dead immediately from one of the two wounds. So Larry Phillips is now dead one way or another, either by his own hand or by the cop's shot.

45:38And that is not the end of things because Matt Asoranu is still on the move. He's in his white celebrity moving down the street past where Phillips has just died. And here's what's crazy. because, as we'll see, the LAPD is very much fetid after this for having saved North Hollywood, taken on these guys who outgunned them. But there's a really critical point that I think people just move right past. When they were moving up Archwood, this residential street, it was not closed off. So people were driving past Emil Matasaranu within feet, like a handful of feet of this guy, and they were confused.

46:21They didn't know what was going on. And he's strapped with like this AK driving the white celebrity, which now has his tire shut out, looking for another car. And at least three or four pass him before he finally stops and picks one and starts shooting at the car. And that was a huge, huge failure on the LAPD's part because those guys could have gone anywhere on Archwood Street and started taking hostages easily. What was the failure? That they didn't close the street off. Like, I don't understand how you could have a bank robbery. You could close it off somewhere back there. There was through traffic still coming down Archwood, like right by the bank.

46:58If you watch it, it's crazy. No, I know. I just don't. I don't know, man. I think that's also Monday morning quarterbacking. I don't know if they could have. They were in the middle of a shootout. I just, I don't know. I mean, the whole LAPD was focused on this shootout. I feel like they could have shut the street down. It's just crazy to me. All right. Agree to disagree. At any rate, he's firing at cars. he gets in this guy's jeep pickup truck and the guy got injured he was fine he ran out of there and you know got away at least and he starts you know he still thinks he can get out of there i guess he's transferring weapons from that chevy to the truck and three swat guys drive over there uh he comes out again and all of a sudden there's another shootout on the street movie style with both of them kind of crouched behind these cars.

47:47And the cops do a very smart thing, which is shoot underneath the car at his feet, at his legs, whatever they can hit. And they end up hitting him 28 times and dropped him. Yeah, man. Can you imagine taking 28 shots in your legs and feet? No, I can't imagine one. He put his hands up. He gave up. He surrendered and was laying behind the celebrity, I think in the end when they captured him, 12 officers had been injured, had been shot. Some were in pretty bad shape. Miraculously all survived. Eight bystanders had been injured. All of them survived. Everyone in the bank survived. And it turned out that the only two people who didn't survive were Larry Phillips and Emil Matasaranu, who ended up bleeding to death from his injuries lying behind that Chevy celebrity.

48:39Isn't that nuts? Chuck, I think 17 or 1800 rounds were fired in this 44-minute firefight, and only two people died, the bank robbers. Yeah, and that became a matter of just sort of further scrutiny because Matt Serrano, you know, he's laying there, he's bleeding, and he says, you know, why don't you put a bullet through my head? And when the EMTs show up, the cops keep them away. They say, don't come over here. EMTs never examined him and he slowly bled out basically over the next hour and died. They were, you know, heavily scrutinized. I think there was an attorney that ended up filing a suit on behalf of the kids that said, hey, you know, regardless of whether this guy was a bank robber, you can't, you know, you still have an obligation to treat an injured human on the ground as a cop.

49:34The cop's response was like, we didn't know if there were other people involved, if they were around, if they had a sniper, if they had explosives on their body. We didn't want to put those EMTs in danger. And in the end, they dropped, I'm sorry, it was a deadlock jury at first. So it was a mistrial. And then they decided not to go further with another case because they might be countersued for malicious prosecution. Well put. Did you read the L.A. Times article on that? Oh, yeah. They really went to town putting this thing together and no one came out looking OK, you know? No. And it was, you know, the L.A.

50:13PD has always had a checkered reputation. So, like, at first they were heroes because this was all over the news. And this was, you know, a handful of years after Rodney King when they had probably an all-time low opinion rating. So they were like, look at the cops, like, protecting you and putting their lives at risk. So it was good for PR at first, but then they let them bleed out in the street for an hour. I'm sure a lot of people were like, good. And a lot of people were like, yeah, you still can't do that. Sure. So one of the other outcomes of this was that it changed police forces across the United States forever.

50:49Like the police realized that they were not equipped for something like this to happen in not only Los Angeles, but every other town in the United States. And in the Defense Spending Act, I think, of 1997, they passed a section called 1033 that said that the Department of Defense can sell any excess armory, weapons, materiel to local police departments now. That's a new thing. And it turned into what's been roundly considered the militarization of the police that's had all sorts of knock-on effects, including, according to multiple studies, an increase in death during police shootings. And that's a big criticism of this, that rather than people saying, let's reduce the public's access to things like assault rifles that can kill tons of people and have firefights like this.

51:47Instead, the push has been to let's arm the cops equally to these these criminals that can be armed to the teeth as well to make it even. which there's a logic to it, sure, but you could also reduce the public's access to those kind of things as well. And that didn't really happen. Well, one of the good things that came out of it was PTSD counseling for police officers was not such a big thing at the time. And after this, it became much more just sort of implemented across the country. Yeah, that is a good thing for sure. Anything else? I got nothing else. I think there's a, in Grand Theft Auto 5, one of the heists, the Paletto score is based on this too.

52:32And there's a movie called 44 Minutes that was made for TV on FX and it's terrible. I bet. If you want to know anything else about the North Hollywood shootout, there's plenty to see and read about that. And while you're reading and seeing about the North Hollywood shootout, I think it's time for listener mail.

52:55I'm going to call this a follow-up that I feel pretty bad about. We did our podcast episode on Kenton Grua, Grand Canyon River Adventure, not too long ago. And we actually heard from his wife, Michelle Grua, who was not a Stuff You Should Know listener, but someone told her about it. She listened, and she wanted to clear up some things. And so I'm going to read it. It's a little lengthy, but I feel like we owe it to her. Hey guys, I was surprised to be informed by a friend of your podcast about my late husband, Factor. Yes, our children and I all called him Factor. That was his preferred name.

53:32I appreciate that you obtained most of your information from Kevin's book, The Emerald Mile, which is for the most part accurate. There are some things that you said that are not accurate and depictions of Factor that I'd like to set straight. These things are likely only important to me, our children, and to his two brothers if they were to ever hear your podcast. I can tell that you appreciated his adventurous spirit and the grandiosity of the things he did, but I would gently suggest that you might consider the feelings of those left behind with regard to the way you depict someone. He's not just some character in a really cool story.

54:03He's someone's husband, father, and brother who is sorely missed. I do not expect any kind of retraction, public retraction. I just wanted to let you know about the inaccuracy so you could have a more clear picture of him. He was the most humble, gracious, generous, respectful, considerate, fierce soul I've ever met, truly one of a kind, and the greatest factor in my life. Regarding the description of him really liking booze and hiking out to obtain extra liquor, the passengers on that particular commercial trip are the ones who requested extra booze. And given that there's no delivery into the canyon, he offered to hike out and procure a resupply for them.

54:42Regarding the moccasins, he was a purist, and his reasoning was that the ancient Queblins who'd lived in the canyon had likely worn moccasins, and he wanted to pay homage to them and not have any unfair modern advantage like hiking boots. He had scouted the route before, and the first through hike attempt, he had placed food caches for that hike, as well as doing so the second time. As an insight to his character, he hiked back in to remove all of them after the hike, leaving no trace. He said that he was obsessed, if you can say that, about someone who smokes that much pot. I feel like you may have missed a key element of Kenton's character in your reading about him, that he had a fierce intellect and intense focus, and once he got a hold of an idea, he ruminated on it, turned it over and over in his mind until he worked out all the details, not consistent with the sleepy image you conjure up when thinking about a typical stoner.

55:37It also bears mentioning that the original idea was Wally wrists. Wally, Rudy, and Kitten did the original speed one, but Wally was no longer working on the river in 83 and thus not able to partake this time around. Kitten came up with the idea to put a second set of oar locks on the boat so you could have two rowing stations to tackle the flat water at the far west of the canyon. As far as the fine, the fine that was imposed is reportedly$500, but I have the cancel check to the Cocochino County Magistrate in the amount of $250 paid by Kenton, so your assertion that he couldn't afford it is not accurate.

56:15He never mentioned any imposition of community service to me as well. And we are also quite sure of how he died. He died not due collision or impact, but from the spontaneous aortic dissection, not an aneurysm. He was found unresponsive on the trail by a hiker while the kids and I were at home awaiting his return. He was not dead when the hiker found him. He was taken to the local hospital where resuscitation efforts failed. He wasn't laying in a peaceful position. The hiker said he was still astride his bike, and it appeared that he had just tipped over. Indeed, he had a little cut over his ear where his sunglasses dug into the side of his head.

56:54When he landed, as a physician myself, I can tell you he was probably in significant chest pain, and he died about 200 yards after passing through what would have been a busy trailhead parking area. So he was probably pedaling like hell to get home just a couple of miles away, but dissected and lost consciousness less than a minute after passing through the lot. I only discovered it when he was two hours late getting home from the ride and called the hospital where I worked to see if they had any mountain bikers that had come in. They said yes, but they weren't able to identify him. And that was the last moment of true peace that I had.

57:29I am glad you found his story so compelling. I'm sure he's glad people are hearing of it, and he doesn't have to do the telling himself, but accuracy is important. Please don't paint him as a caricature. Best, Michelle Grua, and I emailed her a very long email back, and I felt terrible about all this, and she was very sweet and much more graceful than I would have been in her position. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, if you're going to get taken to task by a living relative of someone we profile, It's about as nice as it can get for sure. Yeah. So thank you, Michelle, for that. And just publicly, I'm sorry for anything we did that caused you any upset.

58:08Yeah, agreed. It was definitely not our intent to create a caricature out of it. That's never our intent. So sorry that that happened inadvertently. And thank you for taking the time to write all that. And thank you, Chuck, for reading all of it. Certainly. If you want to get in touch with us like Michelle Grua did, you can use email as she did as well. send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

58:50Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally. And I'm Hari Kondabolu. It's a new year, and on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that, or am I just depressed? Health Stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Joel. And Matt from HowToMoney. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back.

59:28Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom Podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all?

1:00:01I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the valley of despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.