The Ballad of Biggie and Tupac

27:48So the New York Daily News prints Tupac saying that. And that did not make Haitian Jack very happy. Those two separated immediately. They didn't talk anymore. They weren't friends anymore. They didn't hang out. And now Tupac had essentially an enemy in Haitian Jack, which is from what I can tell, not what you wanted. No, not at all. So the case is moving forward at this point. Tupac is financially strapped because while he is making money, he's spending it faster than he's making it. He's also helping out friends and family with their finances. So there was an invitation from a guy named jimmy henchman roseman uh he knew sean combs he knew haitian jack and he said hey tupac why don't you do a guest spot uh on for this uh rapper little sean uh he's in uh biggie circle he's a guy with uh sean combs as well uh will pay seven grand he needed the money so he did it uh he shows up at times square uh quad recording studios on november 30th along with three of his guys.

28:51And before getting on the elevator to go up and record, they were met by these other three guys who draw guns, tell them to get down on the ground. Tupac draws his gun and he ends up being shot. He ends up being robbed. He ends up being beaten pretty badly. And Combs and Biggie and Jimmy Henchman Roseman were up in the studio at the time. They were there. So all of a sudden, Tupac is getting wheeled out on a gurney, sees those guys, and he flips a bird at Biggie and his crew because he thought they were in on this attack. And that's when the beef like really started between these two. Yeah. And Biggie was like, I have no idea what he's talking about.

29:37And Tupac just decided that if Biggie Smalls hadn't set him up, he had at least turned his head and let all of this happen. Like he knew that it was going to happen. He didn't warn him. there's no evidence whatsoever either one of those things happened. And Biggie Smalls always was like, no, this had nothing to do with it. After Tupac died, he was obviously heartbroken and spoke in public about how sad he was that Tupac was dead. It seems like it was a one-sided beef, but the beef on Tupac's side was so energetic that you couldn't just ignore it. There was just a divide and the divide was so great that Bloods hung out with one side, I think Tupac's side and Crips hung out with Biggie's side.

30:24And you have that kind of thing. Like there's very little chance of like reconciling or accidentally hanging out because you ran into each other on the street and you kind of patch things up. That is not going to happen with you now hanging around with the Crips and the Bloods. Yeah, and no one ever really got to the bottom of who was behind that shooting. There's a lot of disagreement and people pointing fingers and claiming this and that. I guess we don't need to totally get into that. But after he was beaten and shot and robbed, he's bandaged up. He's in a wheelchair. he's still got this court case going on and he's found guilty of sexual assault he's acquitted on the other charges and he's sentenced to 18 months in prison where his third album came out Me Against the World came out while he was in prison serving that sentence Dude, if you want cred, release your rap album while you're in prison Yeah, called Me Against the World Yeah, exactly So while Tupac was in jail I don't remember how long he was in for.

31:2818 months. 18 months, okay. While he was in jail, Biggie releases a track called Who Shot Ya? And Tupac interprets that as it was completely directed to him. It was essentially Biggie Smalls gloating about having set up Tupac, and now Tupac was in jail and he'd been shot. And that seems to not be the case at all. Biggie Smalls apparently wrote that song before the Quad City shooting. and um again just from all evidence it seems like biggie had no problem with tupac this is all in tupac's head like this whole east coast west west coast beef seems to have come from tupac being paranoid essentially and i looked up why he might have been paranoid and um apparently there's pretty widespread acknowledgement or belief that he was suffering from substantial mental health issues while he was alive and that that had a huge impact on the way that he interacted with people, the level of trust he would afford even the closest people.

32:32Like, I think it was very easy to fall out of his favor because you might do or say something that he suddenly found suspicious and now all of a sudden, like you were his enemy, like you would do something like set him up or rob him or pay for him to be killed or something. Yeah. I wondered about that. I'm glad you looked into that. Thank you. I am too. You're welcome. Uh, maybe we should take another break. Yeah. All right. We'll take another break and we'll, uh, we'll get back to it right after this.

33:08What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

33:45It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement. the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight.

34:29Once upon a time, I was on 60 Minutes, Oprah, the front cover of Newsweek. And you might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. So join me as I peel back the layers and expose what happened to me in the midst of conversion therapy to shine a light on what the X-game movement does to people and the pain it continues to cause. I had lost 150 pounds because if I couldn't control my sexuality, I was going to control my weight. It sounded like, and this is the word I used, a cult. And as I look, too, at the harm I did from within it. Listen to Atonement, the John Palk story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

35:19like if we're on the air here and i literally have my contract here and i'm looking at you know as soon as i sign this i'm gonna get a seven figure check i've told them i won't be working here in two weeks from the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creators who built the cultural empire the atlanta is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world the thing i love about atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's Rise featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more.

35:53The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like you know seeing so many young black affluent creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing and God said this is your assignment. And that's like how you know like okay oh you from Atlanta for real I ain't gotta say too much I'm a Grady baby shut up listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

36:34all right so uh I don't need to go over what we've been talking about because everyone's listening so at this point um the record labels that were handling this kind of music it wasn't like the major label stuff at this time like that would happen in the future um but it was it was basically hip-hop labels you had bad boy with sean combs uh death row records on the other side um that company was founded about the same time in 1992 by dr dr dre and a few other guys And one of those guys was his former bodyguard, Marion Shug Knight, spelled S-U-G-E. He was the CEO of Death Row Records. Yeah. And he was a blood like he was, you know, he was a straight up blood from from South Central Los Angeles.

37:22Yeah. So and he's now the CEO of Death Row Records. Right. So that automatically makes Death Row Records like another. It's a legit music label as far as like the stuff that the artists on the label are rapping about. The CEO of the record label is a blood, not a form of blood, a blood. So we talked about how the quad studio shooting like really kind of started the beef. The thing that made that beef really genuinely public came at the award show for Source Magazine, their annual awards. This one was in 1995, where Suge Knight, who'd been visiting Tupac in jail and apparently had bought into Tupac's theory that Sean Combs and Biggie Smalls had set him up to be shot and robbed.

38:10Suge Knight was accepting an award. And during his speech, he invited any rapper who didn't want to worry about the executive producer trying to be in all the videos, which was a direct shot at Sean Combs. He said, come on over to Death Row Records. And I mean, if you go back and look at like Biggie Smalls videos and like basically any rapper on this label at the time. Oh, yeah. Sean Combs is probably going to pop up making a cameo, if not dance on it, usually with his shirt wide open. Yeah, yeah. He really was not he was not what they like Death Row Records was doing. And so like Suge Knight made it a pretty good point.

38:52Like if you were really actually looking for legit stuff, come over here. But saying it publicly and doing it by taking a shot at Sean Combs at the Source Awards while you're accepting an award, it was a big deal. That really kind of made that beef public and it turned into East Coast versus West Coast essentially immediately. yeah i mean i remember at the time thinking because uh i remember just seeing and it wasn't just rappers like they had like some r &b acts and i feel like i feel like combs was always in those videos just like like you said either dancing or just like yeah yeah in the background yeah and i remember thinking about the time at the time and this wasn't like my hip-hop was all like earlier stuff and Tribe Called Quest and that kind of thing.

39:41And, you know, Dr. Dre and Snoop, I was into that at first, but this generally wasn't my thing. But I remember thinking like, this guy's like, he sucks. Like he's not, he's not a talented artist. No. Uh, cause he wasn't, I guess, you know, he was a, like you said, an executive and a producer. And, uh, I was, I remember thinking like, why is he always throwing himself in there in front of the camera? Like he sucks. Yeah. And he was dorky even compared to who were essentially mainstream rap artists, like Tupac and Biggie Smalls. Oh, yeah. No shade on them. But there were way more underground rappers at the time putting out really good stuff.

40:16Tribe Called Quest is a really good example of that. That when you compared them to them, he became even more cringey, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he was. And he definitely kind of brought down the credibility of the label and all the artists on it, for sure. Like Biggie Smalls was exponentially too good for Sean Combs. Sean Combs just kind of had him under his thumb. Yeah, absolutely. Which is sad because, I mean, Biggie Smalls and Tupac usually kind of battle for first or second place on most lists of the greatest rapper of all time. My money's on Biggie Smalls. What about you? As the greatest rapper of all time?

40:58Well, it's between Tupac and Biggie. How about that? Oh, okay. because Chuck D like dead in the bullseye for me. Oh yeah? Oh yeah. I was always a public enemy guy. Like that started in high school. I like them too but I don't know. I think I don't like the, I don't like the instrumental track to a lot of their stuff. It's too hard and raw edgy for me. Yeah, I liked it. I mean, trust me, I was way more into like Tribe Called Quest and Farside and Jungle Brothers and like that kind of style. So Public Enemy, me being into Public Enemy in high school is definitely kind of a weird thing. Yeah, but...

41:41As I was listening to The Smiths and The Cure. That's right. No, I'm with you. I was listening to The Smiths and The Cure, but also like Boot Camp Click, like Smith & Wesson, Nas, Wu-Tang, Gangstar. See, I never, I like Gangstar, but I never got into Wu-Tang. They were pretty good. They were better solo, I think. Most of it, like Method Man and RZA were better solo than Wu-Tang together, but whatever. And this is two middle-aged white guys discuss their hip-hop past. I do. I do have to say that Dr. Dre's The Chronic was literally life-changing. Oh, for sure. And it's not just me that that happened to.

42:16I think that changed a lot of people's trajectory. I was one of them, man. I know that thing by heart, inside and out. Yeah. It's a fun listen when I put it on. A lot of nostalgia floods back. It is. I thought the same thing would be for Doggy Style, Snoop's debut solo album. It does not hold up. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't as good as The Chronic by a mile. But I liked it as much as The Chronic at the time, and I don't anymore. Yeah, I'm with you. And part of that may have to do with the fact that Snoop Dogg has, I don't know, become the Snoop Dogg of today. Man, he's amazing. He's now the owner of Death Row Records.

42:53No, he's awesome. But I just feel like he's a bit overexposed for my taste. Oh, I see. He's like the... The Peyton Manning of the hip-hop world. He's the Pedro Pascal of rap. Okay, even better said. But he's an American treasure, though. I mean, like, he was an Olympic mascot, along with Flavor Flav. Now I'm picturing Snoop Dogg, Pedro Pascal, and Peyton Manning, and just sitting at lunch, just saying, like, guys, isn't this great? I could see that. Talking about mutual funds. Yeah, we should do something together because we're not out there enough. Right. It'll blow everyone's mind. All right.

43:32So we are in September 1995 at this point. Suge Knight has dropped the drop the bomb at the Source Awards, which I'm sure did not sit well with Sean Combs. And Tupac is in prison at this point. And Knight and Combs go to the same party here in Atlanta. at what was called the Platinum House. It's a strip bar over on Piedmont Road near the colonnade, which you love. Yeah. A fight breaks out, and a guy named Jake Robles, it was a death row employee, and he was a blood, and a close friend of Suge Knight, he was shot and killed, and witnesses were like, Sean Combs' bodyguard is the one who did it. Right.

44:16So this is not good. This does not help this rivalry at all. and eventually, I guess over the same time, Tupac's still in prison, but Suge Knight is still visiting Tupac there and like they're becoming closer and closer because not only is Suge Knight going out of his way to go visit Tupac in prison, he's also helping him financially, helped him post bail get out on an appeal. And when Tupac gets out of prison, again, he's now deeply indebted to Suge Knight, But apparently they were they had become real friends. He releases his fourth album, All Eyes on Me. I think it was in February of 1996, like immediately went double platinum.

44:59I think it went to number one on the charts. So at this time, Death Row is at Can-Am Studios outside L.A. That's what they're working out of. And people, you know, at the time were like, you know, the real stuff is going down there. There's a big gangster culture in and around that studio. Suge Knight is a real heavy. He's threatening people right and left if they aren't on his good side. And people are hanging out there with gang members who are their security. So there might be Bloods there one day. There might be Crips there one day. There might be a huge singer there one day recording. But all of this is sort of happening around Can-Am Studios.

45:43Right. Um, so Tupac gets out of prison and remember like this guy's like a, essentially a heat seeking missile focused on Biggie Smalls. Like I'm, I get the impression that he just sat in prison, like ruminating about Biggie Smalls and getting back at him. So one of the first things he does was hire Biggie Smalls wife, Faith Evans, who was herself a pretty, um, popular recording artist at the time he offered her$25 ,000 to be on one of his records, a track for his album, All Eyes on Me. And she did. She's like, sure, 25 grand, I'll do it. And I guess after she performed or laid down the track, I guess is it called, he was like, I got my check at the hotel room.

46:29You got to come over to my hotel room to get it. Red flag. Yeah. So she went, both of them say that he propositioned her. He says that they had sex. She is repeatedly denied and emphatically denied that they did. But just the fact that they were in a hotel room together gave Tupac, even if it wasn't true that they had sex, gave him plenty of grounds to tell everybody that they did have sex to at least gnaw at Biggie Smalls with questions, you know, in his head. Yeah. And this is his wife.

47:05So the soul train award show this is in march of 96 uh tupac and biggie both won awards so they were there uh that was the first time they had been together since that quad studio shooting uh which is where it all started and they both had their guys with them they both had their entourages uh tupac had the bloods uh biggie had the south side crips on his side and there was a guy named uh keith d and he was a crip uh so he was with um biggie and outside of this um at the soul train award show. They got into a fight, basically. Witnesses said that Tupac is shouting, shouting down Biggie's groups, sort of inciting them.

47:44They all brandish guns, but nothing happens at this point. Just a lot of sort of back and forth and like, you know, I've got my gun, so shut up. Yeah, it's astounding. Crips and Bloods with their guns drawn in the same spot and no one shot anybody. That's crazy. So Tupac released Hit Him Up, which is considered one of the best diss tracks of all time. He actually specifically names Biggie by, well, by name. He also talks about how he slept with Biggie's wife, Faith Evans. Yeah. And while this is also going on, there's like a lot of money that people have figured out we can make from this, right?

48:22Like this beef and like, say, you know, some street skirmishes or whatever. This stuff makes news, right? Like people know about this. And this is before, I think cell phones were still kind of bricky at the time, long before the internet, like, and people still knew about this stuff. It was just a big deal. And that helps sell records like crazy. It also helps sell magazines. There's a Vibe magazine from September 1995. and on the cover is Biggie Smalls and Sean Combs and it talks about East versus West. Some people put their finger on that vibe issue and point to it as like fanning the flames of this beef and essentially making these two groups like have to hate each other even more or else they're going to seem weak or like, you know, fake, whatever.

49:18Yeah, for sure. And while this is all going on, Tupac is becoming a little more paranoid about Death Row records and Suge Knight. And basically, like, Suge Knight's kind of controlling the money, saying that, you know, you're going to blow all your money unless I'm in control. He didn't think he was getting the proper royalties. He thought you're holding me back in Hollywood and I'm trying to get my movie career going. So trouble is sort of brewing on the inside there, which finally would culminate on September 7, 1996. A lot of people connected with death row records. Tupac, as one of them, went to the Mike Tyson fight against Bruce Seldon in Las Vegas.

49:59And after the fight, one of the death row group members, he was a blood named Trevon Lane, saw a guy who said, hey, he stole a death row necklace from me a few months ago. that guy's name was Orlando Anderson. He was a Crip and a nephew of Keith D. And Tupac, Suge Knight, and other people jump Anderson, rough him up pretty good. And a few hours later, Suge Knight and Tupac are at a stoplight. Cadillac pulls up next to them, and the car is shot up, and Tupac is dead six days later at the age of 25. Yeah, apparently he was making jokes and everything is he was being put under the gurney after the shooting, but he just went downhill really quick from there.

50:45So a lot of people are like, this is Biggie. This is Sean Combs. They said they had nothing to do with it. But this did kind of give Biggie Smalls like a wide opening to be like, this stuff has to stop. This East Coast, West Coast thing has gotten out of hand. And it seemed pretty cut and dry that really it was them beating up Orlando Anderson and him and other Crips being in town who targeted and carried out this drive by. You know, that seems like almost certainly the explanation for the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, that's who the cops thought from the very beginning was the guy that was jumped and beat up.

51:28They didn't arrest him. He died a couple of years later in a shooting in Compton. Fast forward all the way to 2019 in a memoir where Keith D. admitted that he was in that Cadillac. He said, I gave the gun to Anderson. He was in the back seat. There were two other guys in the car. Some people say it was a guy named DeAndre Smith, who was the actual trigger man. But basically, everyone in that car ended up being killed except for Keith D. And in September 2023, he was arrested and charged with Tupac's murder. and that trial is going to happen all these years later coming up this summer in August of 2026.

52:09Yeah, and Keith Dee and later on a bad boy co-founder named Kirk Burroughs and others, after all these allegations and revelations about what Sean Combs has been up to, came out. They've come forward and been like, we think he actually did have something to do with this. Seems like a pretty quick turnaround to me. I think it was just Cripps retaliating for a beat down. So Tupac is gone now, like you said, age 25. And if you want, you can go, you know where Clarkston is, Chuck? Sure. That was a rival high school of Redan. There is a Tupac statue and memorial in Clarkston. Did you know that? I did.

52:50I've never seen it, though. We went there. You mean I went there, and it's pretty amazing. And it's just in the middle of this little rinky-dink suburb of Atlanta. Strange, but it's cool. That was kind of my stomping grounds was that area of Memorial Drive where Clarkston was owned. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Well, we'll have to go to the Tupac statue together sometime. All right. I'll go check it out. So I think what, Chuck, like less than six months? No, right at about six months after Tupac was killed, Biggie Smalls was murdered. Yeah, this was March 1997. He was in a car, riding in a car, leaving a party of Vibe magazine in L.A.

53:30pronounced dead at the hospital. He was but 24 years old. And immediately everyone was like, this is Suge Knight, who, by the way, people blamed Tupac's shooting initially on Suge Knight. Yeah. But he was shot as well. He was just grazed, but that seems obviously to have not been the case. But everyone immediately was like, no, Suge Knight definitely was in on Big E's murder. In retaliation for Tupac's shooting, right? Yeah. It's also entirely possible that Sean Combs did this too, but it certainly seems to have been a contract hit. Like the people who killed Biggie Smalls and shot into his car, they were lying in wait.

54:08They were essentially parked at this intersection waiting for them to stop. They stopped. Sean Combs' car ran a red light and Biggie's car stopped at it. So Sean Combs wasn't near the shooting when it happened. There was an FBI agent who came forward or actually, I guess, created a whole report on this who is like, it was essentially the LAPD hiring a hitman at the behest of either Suge Knight or Sean Combs. And so it was not, Tupac's probably was not a conspiracy. Biggie Small's murder was almost certainly a conspiracy. Yeah. And, you know, Suge Knight would have done all this from jail. He was in jail at the time.

54:52He is in jail. He's in prison now. Again, this is from, this is a 28-year sentence. So this is a big one. And this is for the death of a Compton businessman from 2015. He was never charged in Biggie's killing. But Biggie's last record or last, you know, sort of official release. I know they both put out a lot of stuff posthumously. But his next like real drop was Life After Death. It was called that before he was murdered. But that sold more than 10 million copies in Certified Diamond. Yeah, Tupac released nine posthumous albums. Seven of them went platinum. Yeah. Did you know Suge Knight has a podcast from jail called Collect Call?

55:39It's not, but that's a pretty good name for a podcast from prison. Agreed. Yeah. You want to know what ended the East Coast, West Coast beef? Oh, is that still not happening? No, no. It ended fairly soon after this. rap became more decentralized and groups like outcast came around. And whether you were from the East Coast or the West Coast was watered down. It didn't matter nearly as much. So you can thank outcast for ending the East Coast, West Coast rivalry. Yeah, because people are like, no one's got a beef with Big Boy and Andre. No, everybody loves them for sure. I know we sound maybe facetious.

56:18We are not being facetious right now. Boy, I love outcast. one last thing apparently Michael Jackson assaulted Tupac once in a studio when Tupac insulted Quincy Jones' daughter oh uh Rashida or another one another one not Rashida I don't think it was Rashida I don't know I wonder how that fight went it's a widespread rumor and apparently also you know Biggie was on one of Michael Jackson's songs like doing his thing like legit doing his thing it wasn't watered down for the radio or anything like that and apparently michael jackson threw his lot in with biggie and was not a big fan of tupac and snubbed him once oh wow and apparently in addition to beating him up and everyone said no one cares put side here on michael jackson you don't have that kind of cred No.

57:14But he does a pretty good job on that song. I'll have to check it out. Okay. I think that's it, Chuck. Man, we did it. We did it. We made it through. Hopefully we didn't sound too ridiculous and dorky at any point, but we'll find out. Yeah. Chuck said, yeah, it means it's time for Listener Moo. Yeah, this is just kind of a nice email with some good suggestions. Hey, guys, my name is Josiah Brown. I live in Tennessee. I've been a devoted fan since I was about 10 years old and I'm 20 now. My mom put me on to you guys and I basically never stopped. So thanks, mom. Thanks, mom. I've been binge listening recently.

57:51I do that every so often. I've just been reminded of how wonderful the show is. And I just want to reach out and say thanks for providing some wonderful content and bringing the same big old smile to my face all these years. Keep up the good work, fellas. And that is Josiah B. And Josiah had a lot of good ideas, including Anne Frank, Oscar Schindler, Motown I want to do Motown for sure Mr. Rogers, I can't believe we haven't done that one yet We were going to and then that Tom Hanks movie came out and kind of ruined it for a little while Yeah, I finally saw that on a plane recently What did you think?

58:24Did you see it? No It was okay And the Hindenburg and the Hindenburg is going to be coming at some point in the not too distant future because we commissioned that article and it's in the folder on the computer. So I definitely know we're going to get to that one. Okay. Booyah. Who was that again? Josiah? Josiah. Thanks a lot, Josiah. That was a very nice email and thanks for all the great ideas. If we do any of them, hopefully we'll remember to credit you with them, right? That's right. Except for the Hindenburg. Yeah. It's already in the back. Okay. If you want to be like Josiah and email in, we would love to hear from you.

59:01You can send it off to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.

59:24Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

59:39What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:00:21Babes, what are you doing? What? I'm just mowing the lawn. No, it's blazing hot and dry out here. Don't you remember? Smokey Bear says... Avoid using power equipment when it's windy or dry. Where'd you learn this? Oh, it's on... That's SmokeyBear.com with many other wildfire prevention tips. Right. Thanks, honey bear. Because remember, only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester and the Ad Council. You know, we always say New Year, new me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals.

1:00:59Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of Checking In on the Black Effect Podcast Network. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New year, real you. Listen to Checking In with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.