In short
A discussion of The Odyssey’s origins, themes, and plot—framed around the Epic Cast’s film adaptation—plus a “CliffsNotes” walkthrough of Odysseus’s homecoming and the story’s enduring appeal. It emphasizes xenia (hospitality) and nostos (homecoming), and explains how oral tradition became written literature.
Guest backgrounds
The episode is hosted by Josh, Chuck, and Jerry (Stuff You Should Know / Epic Cast). No external guests are interviewed; the “guests” referenced are characters in the Odyssey (e.g., suitors, hosts like the Phacians).
Key claims
The Odyssey likely began as oral storytelling before being fixed in writing; its lasting resonance comes from universal themes. Hospitality rules are treated as divine law tied to Zeus. Many elements may reflect seafaring realities or metaphor (e.g., Scylla/Charybdis as dangerous navigation hazards).
Notable examples
Penelope’s unfinished weaving; Odysseus disguised as a beggar; the bow contest (12 axe heads); the Cyclops episode (Polyphemus); Circe turning men into pigs; sirens and earwax; Helios’s sacred cattle; the final battle and Athena stopping further civil war.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOStarting the Odyssey Discussion
2:11 to 2:56
The hosts begin to discuss the Odyssey and its relevance today.
“I'm also wearing a cod piece, but that's not unusual for me.”
Historical Context of the Odyssey
2:56 to 4:50
Discussion on the origins and historical background of the Odyssey.
“Didn't love, I mean, Oppenheimer was quote unquote good, I guess, but it was a bit of a slog for me and I never wanted to see it again.”
Structure and Themes of the Odyssey
4:50 to 6:17
Exploration of the structure and themes in the Odyssey and how they resonate.
“But the whole thing, and it's attributed to the Greek poet Homer, who I guess this would have been post-Bronze Age, like after the Bronze Age collapse, I think, is when Homer was walking around.”
Translations and Their Challenges
6:17 to 8:00
Discussion on the challenges of translating the Odyssey into modern languages.
“That's the last question I remember asking you.”
Standout Translations of the Odyssey
8:00 to 11:19
An overview of notable translations of the Odyssey and their significance.
“But it was just for some reason that I don't think anyone's really put their finger on.”
The Mystery of Homer
11:19 to 14:01
Debating the existence of Homer and interpretations of his identity.
“But people's native tongue have unique rhythms as well.”
Exploring the Origins of Homer and the Odyssey
14:01 to 18:46
Learn about the historical context of Homer and key themes in the Odyssey.
“And he almost certainly lived during this age that they attributed to.”
The CliffsNotes of the Odyssey
21:38 to 28:00
Get a summary of the first books of the Odyssey and its characters.
“He's screwed his head back onto his body.”
Odysseus's Journey Begins
28:00 to 40:10
Explore the captivating beginning of Odysseus's adventures and his encounters with the gods.
“And so Calypso falls in love with Odysseus and she's like, don't forget, I'm a goddess nymph, not just a nymph.”
Aftermath of 9/11 and Opportunity
42:00 to 43:06
Discusses how families capitalized on the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.
“It's about what happened in the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York.”
Show all 15 chapters
Odysseus' Homecoming and Challenges
43:06 to 47:18
Explores the struggles Odysseus faces upon returning home and the disguise he adopts.
“The last 12 books are about his homecoming, his nostos, which shares the root with nostalgia.”
Historical Context of the Odyssey
47:18 to 50:05
Examines the historical accuracy and symbolism in the Odyssey and its characters.
“So everyone's kind of wondering where he came from.”
Enduring Legacy of the Odyssey
50:05 to 54:16
Discusses the timeless themes and adaptations of the Odyssey throughout history.
“So my initial question is like, why is this thing still interesting to people?”
Email Interaction Encouragement
56:01 to 56:36
Learn how to engage with the podcast through emails.
“with comparing your brother Warth on the Odyssey.”
Introducing Revisionist History Podcast
57:10 to 57:41
Explore a compelling story about community and conflict on Staten Island.
“Or will you trust the people five miles overseas?”
Transcript
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1:50Josh Clark:Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
2:00Chuck Bryant:Hey, and welcome to the Epic Cast. This is Josh. There's Chuck. Jerry's here, too. We're all wearing breastplates. And that means this is Stuff You Should Know. To protect our chest. Yes. I'm also wearing a cod piece, but that's not unusual for me.
2:17Josh Clark:To protect your cod.
2:18Chuck Bryant:I know. Why is it called that? The fish of the day. What if you dated somebody who referred to that as your cod? Wouldn't you be like, please stop calling it that?
2:30Josh Clark:Yeah. It's like, do you mind giving me some privacy? I'm in here washing my cod.
2:34Chuck Bryant:Right. They would say, I'm sorry. I majored in the Canterbury Tales.
2:39Josh Clark:What a weird way to start the Odyssey.
2:42Chuck Bryant:I know. I know. And you're the one who wrote those lines. I know. That's true. Yeah. We're talking about the Odyssey. You saw the Odyssey and you were like, how's the Odyssey work? And here we are, right?
2:55Josh Clark:Yeah. You know, I saw the movie. I thought it was really good. I am no Christopher Nolan fanboy. I'm about 50-50 with him. Maybe 60-40 with ones I like.
3:06Chuck Bryant:Which ones do you like? Aside from Memento, obviously.
3:09Josh Clark:Well, I liked Memento. I liked the Prestige. I liked the Batman movies.
3:14Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
3:16Josh Clark:Didn't love, I mean, Oppenheimer was quote unquote good, I guess, but it was a bit of a slog for me and I never wanted to see it again.
3:22Chuck Bryant:I could see that.
3:23Josh Clark:I think you and I had the same problems with Interstellar. Yeah. I did not see Tenet because I heard it was so bad. Yeah, he sort of hit or miss for me, but I really thought The Odyssey was great and it kind of hit me after I saw it. I was like, it's kind of just crazy, this idea that this story that's this old, like one of the oldest stories, can still resonate with an audience in 2026. And like, what is it about that story itself? And I knew nothing about just the Odyssey as a literary piece. And I didn't know much about Homer. Like, I was an English major, but we didn't, I guess I didn't do the classes where we studied this stuff.
4:04Chuck Bryant:Well, in your defense, it was written in Ionic, not English.
4:08Josh Clark:So, yeah, good point.
4:10Chuck Bryant:So, yeah, I can totally see where you're coming from. The story has legs, I guess, is how you'd put it.
4:17Josh Clark:Yeah, it's just kind of fascinating to me as a piece of work.
4:20Chuck Bryant:For sure. And let's talk about this piece of work because there's a lot to talk about, not just recounting the highlights of the story and spoiling the movie, I guess, for anybody who hasn't paid attention over the last like 2000 something years.
4:34Josh Clark:Yeah, if you can't spoil something written in the 8th century, then I'm just sorry.
4:42Chuck Bryant:Yeah. Yeah. So about almost 3 ,000 years ago, the 700s BCE, right? That's where they think Homer first put this to paper. But the whole thing, and it's attributed to the Greek poet Homer, who I guess this would have been post-Bronze Age, like after the Bronze Age collapse, I think, is when Homer was walking around. If Homer was even walking around, we'll talk about in a second. But they attribute both the Odyssey and the Iliad, which is kind of the prequel to the Odyssey, to Homer. And they think that was first written down, like I said, in the 700s, the 8th century BCE. But that it was probably around way longer than that because the whole thing is set up as a form of oral storytelling.
5:37Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, you know, just you mentioned quickly that it was sort of a sequel. Or the Iliad was a, did you say prequel?
5:45Chuck Bryant:You bet I did.
5:47Josh Clark:Well, the Odyssey is 24 books, one book for each letter of the Greek alphabet. But the Iliad that you were talking about talks about Agamemnon's return from the Trojan War. And then the Odyssey basically covers Odysseus, his return from the very long delayed return from the Trojan War. And what was your question that you asked before I sidetracked us? Do you remember?
6:13Chuck Bryant:I asked you what Christopher Nolan movies you like.
6:18Josh Clark:Yes, you said that right before. That's the last question I remember asking you. Oh, that's OK. But I think I know what you said. Something about it being an oral tradition that was much older, right?
6:30Chuck Bryant:Yeah. Yeah. I must have said, right? That's right. That was my question. Am I right?
6:36Josh Clark:I can't believe how good we are at this 18 years in. 18 years in. It astounds me sometimes.
6:43Chuck Bryant:I know. It's almost like we're both sleepwalking right now.
6:46Josh Clark:No, no, no. Not sleepwalking. On the phone. So we don't know how closely the Odyssey, you know, resembles the story that Homer told in 700s because you were right. It was an oral story. It was an oral tradition. And it was supposed to be told by memorizing it and retelling it by, you know, from bards telling the story to people in a crowd, maybe changing a thing or two. you know, the idea is that we, it's pretty likely that this thing was a little bit like a game of telephone, right?
7:18Chuck Bryant:Yeah. You know, like as you learned it and you passed it on, you could kind of embellish it in this way. You're like, I don't really care that much about the siren, so I'm not going to give them as much play as maybe the guy who taught you how to say this did. And that it really started to take its final shape again when it was finally put to papyrus. I want to say pen to paper, but probably quill to papyrus is how it was first done, right? I love that. That's when it really kind of started to take a solid form because now it was like, now you just basically copied it, right? You didn't have to memorize it or anything like that.
7:55Chuck Bryant:But it was far from the only like legend or tale of like Greek culture and Greek heroics and like Greek moral lessons and all that, right? But it was just for some reason that I don't think anyone's really put their finger on. It just has resonated throughout the years. So it's the one that we tend to think of when we think of this whole stuff. But it was a cornerstone of Greek culture. Like this is just part of your indoctrination into growing up in ancient Greek culture. You knew the Iliad among other things, or the Odyssey, probably the Iliad too, among other things, you'd at least heard it probably more than once.
8:34Chuck Bryant:And then finally Plato comes along and he's like, this is all rubbish. We need to start using our noodles. So he tried to actually ban the Odyssey and it didn't take because people love it that much.
8:45Josh Clark:That's right. It lived on. You mentioned it was an Ionic Greek, which is an Asiatic dialect, and it's been gone for more than 2000 years. So if you're wondering how we got to the point where Christopher Nolan is working on a screenplay adapted from a 21st century novelized version, I guess. It's sort of a winding road. The first print copy came around in 1488, and it was produced in Italy in that Ionic Greek. And then, I guess, about 100 years later or so, or at least in the next century, it was finally translated to some European languages, some actual living languages. And then in 1616, we got our first English translation of this epic poem from a British poet named George Chapman.
9:37Chuck Bryant:That's a pretty British name if I've ever heard one.
Read the full transcript
9:40Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure.
9:41Chuck Bryant:So, yeah. So now it starts to come into our awareness, our understanding.
9:46Josh Clark:And, you know, him translating it and then other people translating it from the original. You know, we talked a little bit about just the original oral translations. But when you finally get to like written translations, it also took a bit of a winding road, obviously.
10:00Chuck Bryant:Yeah, because the thing was written originally or created originally to be spoken. And it actually follows a specific meter, like the rhythm that you're supposed to say it in. It's called Homeric hexameter or dactylic hexameter I've also seen. And it's where you there are six in each line. There's six three syllable units. and in the three in these three syllable units these dactyls the first syllable is stressed and then the next two are not stressed so it's like hi how are you doing today guy right do you have to sing it i actually i saw somebody a video of somebody not only reading it in english but reading it in ionic oh wow yeah and i couldn't tell any difference from somebody just reading it normally, but that's not something that literally translates very well into other languages, including English.
10:59Chuck Bryant:So the translators basically had to make some big decisions, essentially.
11:06Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, it's almost like translating the Bible, you know, through the various translations of the Bible over the years. There was, you know, each time someone's doing that, there are writers that are doing that. So each version is going to be a little bit different. Right. You know, a language, especially, you know, in the case of a poem, it's going to have a unique rhythm. But people's native tongue have unique rhythms as well. And just where they're from, there are unique cultural experiences that happen. Some of these translate better than others, I guess. Yeah. And so, you know, you're really, you know, you're not rewriting and like I don't think people made up like a ton of stuff out of whole cloth, but making it relevant for the audience that they're writing it for, which would have been in their language for the people in their country because they wanted them to get something out of it.
11:55Chuck Bryant:Yes. Yeah. Most translators have ignored the there's a joke in one of the books about laying with a goat and it just does not translate well into modern time. That's right.
12:05Josh Clark:Got to leave that one behind. And the other thing is, you know, there's a few things here. You're translating from a dead language, which is a big deal. We already mentioned that they were things meant to be spoken aloud to something read, which is going to change it. And then it's just something that's just thousands of years old that you have to make sense. So it's a hard job.
12:25Chuck Bryant:Right. It's a hard knock life for translators of the Odyssey.
12:30Josh Clark:That's right. That's what Annie said.
12:31Chuck Bryant:So there were some standout translations over the years, but the one that everyone's talking about right now is from Emily Wilson. And she, I think, did hers in 2017. 2017 is how most people say that. Right. And she basically, she turned it into English heroic couplets, which is basically a tea drinking way of saying like exactly the kind of rhyming pairs that you hear in any modern song.
13:07Josh Clark:Yeah. And this is the one that Christopher Nolan used specifically to adapt his version of the story on screen. Mm hmm.
13:43Chuck Bryant:Yeah, no, there's plenty of stuff that makes sense. It's more just like a question of like, did he actually exist if he was a bard, if he was a group of people? It's very similar to the Shakespeare question too, we did an episode on. but there i mean just even though everything is a guess that we've kind of compiled from homer strictly from i guess his own writing i don't think he's referenced in any other like historical text or anything like that it's just the stuff he's writing about just kind of lines up and they think that he was probably from ionia which is along the west coast of turkey today because the whole thing was written in Ionic.
14:28Chuck Bryant:And he almost certainly lived during this age that they attributed to. And they also are like, it's possible that he might be a known historic blind bard named Demoticus. Yeah. That's the hardest one, I think, out of this whole article.
14:49Josh Clark:Yeah. I mean, that's a character in the Odyssey that a lot of space is devoted to. So I think there are people who are like, I wonder if this is just a stand in for him because, boy, there is a lot of stuff in there about this minor character.
15:04Chuck Bryant:Right. He's like, and let me sing the praises about Demodocus's cod.
15:09Josh Clark:Yeah.
15:09Chuck Bryant:There's just verse after verse about that.
15:12Josh Clark:A lot of stuff. So I also think we should talk before we break about sort of a central concept because in Act 2, everybody, we're going to give you the CliffsNotes version of the Odyssey.
15:24Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
15:24Josh Clark:It's very exciting.
15:25Chuck Bryant:I'm very excited.
15:26Josh Clark:But we should a little bit more before we get into that is sort of conceptually what the Odyssey was about in a lot of ways was homecoming and hospitality, which are Nostos and Zinnia in ancient Greece. And these two things were like really big deals in ancient Greece that figured heavily in like their life and culture. Yeah.
15:50Chuck Bryant:They're not only like things that you should do to be like a good host. There are actual rules that you have to follow. And if you don't, you're actually upsetting Zeus because this is Zeus, the king of the gods, a real god's god, if you ask other gods. This is his divine law that he's passed down. That's how important these rules for treating guests are.
16:14Josh Clark:So, yeah, Zinnia is a big deal. And the rules specifically are if you happen to hop through town and you knock on a stranger's door, they're supposed to say, come on in. I don't need to know anything. Here's some food. Here's some wine. Why don't you go? I'll draw you a hot bath. Sure. And then we'll get to why you're here. And also while you're doing this stuff, like maybe while you're in the bathtub, I'm going to stand sentry out front with my sword and make sure you stay nice and safe.
16:44Chuck Bryant:Yeah, you have to guarantee their protection while they're staying at your home. Yeah, like a heaping helping of hospitality is what you're supposed to offer a stranger, according to Xenia, right?
16:56Josh Clark:For sure.
16:57Chuck Bryant:That figures in so much to the story that essentially entire groups and individuals are characterized by how they treat strangers, how they act as guests, how they act as hosts. Like this is a really important thread that goes through all of the Odyssey. That's Xenia. Then there's also Nostos, right?
17:18Josh Clark:Yeah, homecoming. I mean, that's basically what the Odyssey is. It's about somebody coming home. And this was a very big deal in Greek society because they were seafarers. They were adventurers and wanderers by sea. And so they would go out a lot, and coming home was a big deal. They would be separated from their family. They would have these brutal, you know, sea journeys. And so coming home was a very big deal. And so it's no surprise that these two sort of prominent things that figure in Greek culture and society at the time were sort of the two big themes of the Odyssey.
17:53Chuck Bryant:Right. If you're in high school and you have a crush on somebody who likes to read the classics, just go up to him and say, would you like to go to Nostos with me? And they will, they'll be putty in your hand after that.
18:07Josh Clark:That's great. I started Moby Dick, by the way, just so everyone knows it's officially happening.
18:12Chuck Bryant:Awesome. How's it going so far?
18:14Josh Clark:Well, I read chapter one and then I watched that, you know, I mentioned the Rob Delaney podcast that he's doing with the professor. And so I'm going to do that like in lockstep. So I did that and then I watched their chapter one recap and it's helping a lot. I like it so far. That's awesome. Keep us posted, will you? I will. So far, so good.
18:36Chuck Bryant:Okay. So that was, I think we covered Xenia and Nostros pretty well. And that's probably a pretty good place to break, right?
18:45Josh Clark:Yeah. And everyone, hold on your hats because Act Two, we're going to go over these books of the Odyssey.
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19:49Chuck Bryant:I think for me to be any good or for any character to be any good, you've got to put enough of yourself and your empathy for people in it. I'm a people watcher. You see that guy going down the swing and go, yeah, I can use that. Open Igloo co-founder Alia Mohammed.
20:05Josh Clark:I love staying on top of what is going on in our city, what is going on in city politics, what is on renters' minds, and taking all of that knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to make New York City better in the long run. And actress and singer Melissa Errico. Partnership took on a whole other meaning when I started making my own work. It's like you with a great actress or actor. It was best to come out of your trailer full of life and just face another person who's full of life and don't talk.
20:37Chuck Bryant:Listen to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Michael Imperioli. I want to tell you about my new podcast, Underground Zero. I'm on the plane, honey. Something's wrong.
20:52Josh Clark:It's about what happened in the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York. We're looking at the opportunity of a lifetime for us and the other families. While the world was mourning, five powerful New York families saw an opportunity. The debris is supposed to go to the city-owned salvage yard? And some of it will. They would go on to make millions of dollars. What's in the tunnels? Go boss of ingots. It could be worth half a billion. And they would have made more if it hadn't been for one courageous cop.
21:22Chuck Bryant:No, dad, don't.
21:23Josh Clark:You're going to need all of us. I'll call you when I can.
21:25Chuck Bryant:Frank, be careful.
21:26Josh Clark:Underground Zero, starring Steve Schirippa, Ray Abruzzo, and me, Michael Imperioli. Would you be willing to see your family go to pieces? Some ways it already has. Listen to Underground Zero on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
21:57Josh Clark:All right, I'm back with Josh. He's screwed his head back onto his body. Cartoon style.
22:05Chuck Bryant:And if you don't know what Chuck's referring to, that means we edited that thing out.
22:08Josh Clark:Oh, perhaps. You never know. But we're going to kind of do, like I said, the CliffsNotes version of the Odyssey. Spoilers will abound. If you haven't seen the film and you really don't want to know anything about it, then don't listen to this chapter. But, you know, I think it might help going in to know a little bit about the story if you really don't know anything. And I'll also point out the actors who feature and who they play. How's that?
22:34Chuck Bryant:I think that's great. Can you also do their voices, maybe? No, I can't do any of those voices. You can do a great Matt Damon. How about them apples? There you go. Exactly. That actually sounded like Matthew McConaughey trying to do a Matt Damon.
22:48Josh Clark:It sort of did.
22:49Chuck Bryant:All right. So let's get started, Chuck. We start with book one. And actually, this kind of covers books one through four. Yeah. And we find, we start, the Trojan War has ended 10 years before. And the Trojan War itself has taken 10 years. So it's been 20 years since our hero, literally the hero of the story, Odysseus. Matt Damon. Yes. Which I'm not crazy about that casting. I'm sorry.
23:18Josh Clark:There's a lot of people upset about this casting.
23:20Chuck Bryant:Yes.
23:21Josh Clark:Not him, like all kinds of the casting.
23:23Chuck Bryant:Everybody's like, Matt Damon's fine. So he's been gone for 20 years. And from what I understand, like this was initially considered a fairly quick errand. The Trojan War started because Paris stole Helen of Troy. And now I think everybody kind of set out to get her back. And it turned into this 10-year Trojan War.
23:46Josh Clark:That's right. Helen of Troy is played by Lupita Nyong 'o in this film. And Elon Musk is so mad about that. He's going to make his own AI version that he thinks is more historically accurate. That's what he said.
24:01Chuck Bryant:I heard about that. I'm waiting for its IPO. I'm sure it's going to be great.
24:05Josh Clark:So Matt Damon is Odysseus. He's been gone for those 20 years, like you said. He has a wife named Penelope, played by Anne Hathaway in this film. And he has a son called Telemachus, who's played by Tom Holland, who you might know more as Spider-Man. Yeah. All right. So where we pick up with them, they are living in their big house, their mini mansion. and there are a hundred suitors vying for Odysseus's throne and the hand of Penelope to Mary. The most villainous in the film, at least, is Antinous, played by Robert Pattinson.
24:41Chuck Bryant:I'll bet he does a great job.
24:43Josh Clark:He's great. The acting is really, really good in this entire film. But these guys are all living there, kind of really have made themselves at home, let's just say, and not keeping up their end of the Xenia bargain, which is, I don't even know if he mentioned, as a guest, you're also supposed to be awesome in return. And these guys are not.
25:01Chuck Bryant:We left that out. It's not just incumbent on the host.
25:05Josh Clark:That's right.
25:05Chuck Bryant:So yeah, they're being pretty terrible. And one of the main things they're doing as suitors, this whole hundred of them who've taken over Odysseus's home, they're like really pressing Penelope to be like, your husband's dead. It's been 20 years. You need to choose a husband to sit on the throne next to you and become king of Ithaca, who are you going to choose? And she keeps hemming and hawing, hemming literally because she says that when she finishes the funeral shroud that she's weaving for Odysseus' elderly father, Gary, she will make this decision, right? And then every night after she has woven all day, she goes and undoes the weaving that she did that day so that she will never finish.
25:51Chuck Bryant:And this, I guess the suitors are all idiots and it's working quite well because they still haven't caught on, I guess.
25:59Josh Clark:You know, sometimes when we get emails that are like, I can't believe Josh said that Odysseus' father's name was Gary. Didn't he read it or do his research? I wonder if people even know you.
26:12Chuck Bryant:I do too.
26:14Josh Clark:After 18 years, you know. So barren desert dry. Like, get with the people.
26:22Chuck Bryant:He knows it's not Gary. Chuck, I love how well you know me. Thanks, man.
26:27Josh Clark:I mean, you still fool me. So I guess I shouldn't throw stones.
26:32Chuck Bryant:I want to take issue with that. There's probably 98 % of the time you're just like moving on. Not that you don't think it's funny. Not that you don't get it. You're just like, we're burning up time here. That's enough of your shenanigans. I'm just going to let that sit.
26:50Josh Clark:All right. Thanks, Gary. So Penelope and Telemachus are, you know, it's been 20 years. So they're also losing hope that dad and husband are gone. Sure. Like for good. So Athena, played by Zendaya in the film, the goddess of wisdom and warfare. She's on Odysseus' side this whole time. She's like, hey, kid, why don't you go out and, like, actually do something and see if you can find out if your dad's alive? That'd be a good start.
27:21Chuck Bryant:I'm guessing Zendaya does a great job, or Zendaya.
27:25Josh Clark:Is it Zendaya? Yeah, she's awesome. She's a really good actor, I think, in everything.
27:29Chuck Bryant:I read recently that people thought of her as, like, a Nepo baby or something like that. I don't know where that's coming from, and I think she's really good at everything I've ever seen her in. Who were her parents? Are they famous? I don't know. I don't know. I'll have to go back and double check that, but I saw somebody reference it and I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She's great.
27:47Josh Clark:Yeah, she's great. And she was also in Spider-Man, the movies. So it's a reunion of sorts.
27:51Chuck Bryant:Yes. And Benny, I can't remember. He's one of the creators of Uncut Gems. Benny Safdie. Yes. He's in this movie and he directed Robert Pattinson in Good Time.
28:04Josh Clark:That's right. He plays, Benny Safdie plays Agamemnon.
28:07Chuck Bryant:Yeah. man look at all this yeah go ahead though i'm sorry for sidetracking us so badly oh that's okay
28:13Josh Clark:so um she says why don't you go out and see if your dad's still alive uh he goes and meets with uh john bernthal from the walking dead who plays uh king menelaus in sparta and from him learns hey your dad's alive he's sort of being held captive but in the best way you can be held captive on calypso's island and that's where book five picks up right calypso is a nymph a goddess
28:40Chuck Bryant:nymph who has basically turned odysseus into a sex toy after he washed up on her island after a shipwreck which we'll come to later that's another cool thing about the the odyssey it's not completely linear it actually spins around there's different like this entire part we're talking about is a flashback as we'll see.
29:00Josh Clark:This starting with book five. Yeah.
29:02Chuck Bryant:Yes. Thank you. And so Calypso falls in love with Odysseus and she's like, don't forget, I'm a goddess nymph, not just a nymph. So I can make you stay here. And she does. She holds him captive there for I think something like seven years. And then finally, Athena, who has really chosen Odysseus as like one of her favorite humans and really intervenes on his behalf throughout this whole, I guess, odyssey. She goes to Zeus and is like, you got to get this guy out of Calypso's clutches. And Zeus is like, sure, I'll see what I can do.
29:39Josh Clark:That's right. Calypso, by the way, is played by Charlize Theron. So again, he was being held captive as a sex slave for seven years to Charlize Theron and still wants to leave.
29:53Chuck Bryant:He's like, my God, it's exhausted.
29:58Josh Clark:So he has resumed his journey home to Ithaca. He leaves on a raft. Poseidon is a real jerk throughout this whole story. Really doesn't like Odysseus. So he destroys. Who plays Poseidon? No one plays Zeus or Poseidon in this.
30:12Chuck Bryant:Oh, are they CGI?
30:14Josh Clark:No, no, no. Bite your tongue. He uses very little CGI.
30:18Chuck Bryant:guy yeah i heard it's all practical effects but i don't understand what you mean they're just
30:22Josh Clark:off screen they're not in the movie like uh at all they're just referenced yeah exactly like poseidon really did me dirty yeah okay so he poseidon wrecks the raft uh as punishment because he blinded his son which was a cyclops and we'll we'll get to that in a minute because that's coming by way of flashback a little bit later. And Odysseus is shipwrecked once again and taken in by the, I guess, the Phacians. And they are showing some serious xenia. They are like great hosts to him. Say, come on into the royal court. Here's everything you need in the way of food and wine and protection.
31:03Chuck Bryant:Right. And the reason we said that book five starts as a flashback, because Odysseus is being really well taken care of by the Phacians. And the Phacian king, I guess one night while they're feasting, says, hey, man, tell us your story. What's what's going on with you, buddy? And Odysseus basically tells the story of the Odyssey, everything he's been through up to that point. And this is kind of I mean, this is the part where everybody's like when they talk about the Odyssey, this is the stuff they're talking about, where he's recounting his adventures in flashback to the Phacians.
31:39Josh Clark:That's right. And this is the real flashback. I guess, I mean, we sort of misspoke earlier, but I think everyone gets it, right? Sure. Okay, great.
31:47Chuck Bryant:This is the part where Matt Damon goes, do-do-do, do-do-do, do-do-do.
31:52Josh Clark:So as soon as Odysseus leaves with his big fleet of ships, there are about 600 soldiers. They're all headed home from the war at Troy once again. Athena sends some storms that way, veer the ships off course. Athena's mad at this point about war crimes that they committed in the battles when they conquered Troy. And they landed initially at the land of the lotus eaters, which are, you know, they're eating lotus. So they're very blissful and, you know, they're basically sort of doing drugs.
32:24Chuck Bryant:Yeah.
32:24Josh Clark:And Odysseus' crew is like, this place is awesome. Can we stay here? Yeah.
32:28Chuck Bryant:I was curious what that's an allegory for. What drug or whatever, you know?
32:35Josh Clark:I mean, I guess it was Lotus at the time, right?
32:38Chuck Bryant:I guess, but I've tried Lotus and it doesn't get you messed up. Okay. But yes, this is what these people were doing. And Odysseus' crew was like, I'm not sure we need to keep going back home. Like, this is pretty great. These Lotuses are amazing. The Lotus Eaters are great people. Let's just stay here. And Odysseus has to drag every single one of his men, all 600 of them, back to their ships where he ties them up until he finally gets the last one and is able to set sail again from the land of the lotus eaters. That is far and away the best experience that these guys have on the Odyssey as a whole.
33:16Chuck Bryant:Because the next thing that happens to them is actually the turning point that really brings on everything else. All of their misfortune, they seem to have started, and then Odysseus really drives it home on the island of the Cyclops.
33:33Josh Clark:That's right. Obviously, one-eyed beasts, cannibalistic even, and they end up trapped in a cave there. We mentioned Poseidon's son is a Cyclops. That's Polyphemus, and he's just eating these guys. If you see the movie, this is an actual puppet. It is not CGI, which is incredible. Oh, really? Amazing, yeah.
33:56Chuck Bryant:I'll bet.
33:56Josh Clark:And Odysseus blinds Polyphemus to get everyone out of the cave, and they are able to flee the Cyclops and then suffer another attack by a tribe of giant cannibals called...
34:11Chuck Bryant:The Lestrigonians. Yeah, nice work. So I just want to go back to, is it Polyphemus or Polyphemus? I would say Polyphemus. Okay. So like you said, he's the son of Poseidon. I read that Odysseus and his men came onto the island of the Cyclops and just started eating all of Polyphemus' sheep and like basically made terrible guests of themselves. Is that not correct?
34:37Josh Clark:Well, that I don't know if that's in the movie. I can't remember.
34:41Chuck Bryant:Okay. But either way, I read that it wasn't just completely one-sided, that Polyphemus was wronged first. At any rate, after they escaped the Lestragonians, which is another tribe of giants, but I believe they're more human-like, right?
34:58Josh Clark:They're not in the movie either. Okay. Everything I know about the Odyssey, I know from a little research and then seeing that movie.
35:04Chuck Bryant:Okay, gotcha. So in the book, the Lestragonians, they come right after the Cyclops. And they're another tribe of giant cannibals. But from what I saw, they're more human-like, they're like soldiers, but giant. They eat a bunch of guys. And after that, there's the shipwreck. And the reason why there's the shipwreck is because Polyphemus, son of Poseidon, prays to his father and says, please mess Odysseus' junk up.
35:34Josh Clark:That's right. And so they end up on the island of Cersei, who was a goddess, sort of enchantress, sort of portrayed like a sort of witch like. Yeah. And she falls in love with Odysseus. She turns the guys, his dudes into pigs. And Odysseus gets a little help from the gods and forces her to turn them back into men so they can get on with stuff.
35:56Chuck Bryant:Yeah. So I read that that was like the coolest, most disturbing scene in the whole movie. Is that right?
36:02Josh Clark:I mean, I don't know. It was great. Okay.
36:05Chuck Bryant:So Odysseus ends up getting kind of hooked up by Circe, who basically says, head on to the land of the dead because you're going to get a lot of important, valuable information there. He meets Agamemnon there, who was killed in the Iliad, and he meets his mom there, which is nice. And then most importantly, he meets Tiresias, who is a prophet of Apollo, who, as a side note, became a woman for seven years, which is kind of interesting. And then Tiresias basically says, you really need to make an offer to Poseidon, some sort of sacrifice or something, because he's really mad that you blinded Polyphemus, his son, the Cyclops.
36:46Chuck Bryant:And one other thing, this is very important. Do not let anyone eat the sun god's sacred cattle on the island of Helios. You're going to end up on Helios, by the way. I'm a prophet, so I know.
37:00Josh Clark:Yeah. So he says, all right, check. Do not eat sacred cattle. Got it. So before going on to Ithaca, Odysseus goes back to Circe's Island. She's like, I'm going to hook you up even further. Here's some beeswax because you're not going to want to hear that siren song. Sure. Protect all your guys. You need to steer towards Scylla because, as we'll see, there's a very narrow sort of passage that's very fraught. Yeah. And she says, go towards Scylla and not Charybdis, because that's the bad way. And also, by the way, I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but man, do not eat any of that guy's cattle.
37:38Chuck Bryant:So now the second person to mention this, which suggests strongly that they are definitely going to eat the cattle.
37:46Josh Clark:Yeah, for sure.
37:47Chuck Bryant:So after leaving Circe's Island and setting sail, remember, every time they set sail, they're going toward home, toward Ithaca. They just keep getting delayed and shipwrecked and Poseidon's really messing with them as per Polyphemus' request. The next challenge that they go to is the sirens, which is why Circeus, like you said, gave Odysseus earwax. And Odysseus is like, I got to see what all this is about. So he gives the earwax to all of his men and says, lash me to the mast. I want to hear it, but no matter what I say, while I'm under the spell of the Siren Song, do not untie me. And apparently it works out pretty great.
38:29Josh Clark:Yeah, he makes it through that. They all survive. And then they reach that strait that Cersei had warned him about, which has monsters on both sides. That's Scylla and Charybdis. On the Scylla side, you've got a six-headed beast who is going to eat you. on the Carybdis side, you're going to encounter some massive whirlpools that will destroy your ship like it's going down a toilet. And so Odysseus is like, all right, she said to steer, to avoid that whirlpool and steer toward that monster, towards Scylla. And they do that, and the monster eats a lot of those guys. But Odysseus managed to escape with all but, I think, six guys that get eaten.
39:11Chuck Bryant:Right. Which is a pretty good trade-off. It's like a utilitarian lesser of two evils, right? Lose the whole ship to the whirlpool or lose six guys to Scylla. It's a pretty smart move, honestly. And if you're like, wow, he really didn't have a good option. That's because caught between Scylla and Charybdis is the original version of caught between a rock and a hard place. That's where that came from.
39:33Josh Clark:That's right. So they eventually land at Helios. The sacred cattle are everywhere. They've gotten the two warnings by now. And of course, like josh said the odysseus's men eat that cattle pretty quickly uh and more divine punishment is is wrought upon them and zeus because helios is like you got to do something here zeus zeus destroys the ship when it departs the island and at this point now odysseus is the only one still living and he washes ashore to meet calypso and that is where the flashback ends right uh and then so let's
40:09Chuck Bryant:Let's go take a break and we're going to come back and wrap up the Odyssey and talk a little more about what it means for everybody. All right. We'll be right back.
40:34Josh Clark:What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Sky Pop Protein Soda. Sky Pop Protein Soda has 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and real delicious soda taste. Sky Pop Protein Soda. Reach for the sky. Get your Sky Pop Protein Soda now at Target or Walmart. Hi, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the thing I'm speaking with more artists, policymakers, and performers like actor Stephen Root.
40:58Chuck Bryant:I think for me to be any good or for any character actor to be any good, you've got to put enough of yourself and your empathy for people in it. I'm a people watcher. You see that guy going down the street and go, yeah, I can use that. Open Igloo co-founder Alia Mohammed.
41:13Josh Clark:I love staying on top of what is going on in our city, what is going on in city politics, what is on renters' minds, and taking all of that knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to make New York City better in the long run. And actress and singer Melissa Errico. Partnership took on a whole other meaning when I started making my own work. It's like you with a great actress or actor. It was best to come out of your trailer full of life and just face another person who's full of life and don't talk.
41:46Chuck Bryant:Listen to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Michael Imperioli. I want to tell you about my new podcast, Underground Zero. I'm on the plane, honey. Something's wrong.
42:00Josh Clark:It's about what happened in the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York. We're looking at the opportunity of a lifetime for us and the other families. While the world was mourning, five powerful New York families saw an opportunity. The debris is supposed to go to the city-owned salvage yard? And some of it will. They would go on to make millions of dollars. What's in the tunnels? Go boss of ingots. It could be worth half a billion. And they would have made more if it hadn't been for one courageous cop.
42:31Chuck Bryant:No, Dad, don't.
42:32Josh Clark:You're going to need all of us. I'll call you when I can.
42:34Chuck Bryant:Frank, be careful.
42:35Josh Clark:Underground Zero, starring Steve Schirippa, Ray Abruzzo, and me, Michael Imperioli. Would you be willing to see your family go to pieces? Some ways it already has. Listen to Underground Zero on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles, stuff you should know.
43:05Chuck Bryant:Okay, Chuck, now we're at book 12. The last 12 books are about his homecoming, his nostos, which shares the root with nostalgia. And like you said, the Facians are excellent hosts. So they get him directly to Ithaca, finally get him home. But his homecoming is not just him showing up and everything's great. Like his kingdom has fallen to shreds in the 20 years that he's been gone. Penelope's been doing everything she can to hold it all together, but she can only do so much. So he's got to disguise himself, which he does as a beggar, to kind of get the lay of the land to figure out how to put things right again.
43:42Josh Clark:That's right. So in disguise, only his old dog and his childhood nurse, played by John Leguizamo. Really? recognize him, but he, you know, he doesn't sell him out. He keeps it a secret. And he is being mistreated at the palace by the suitors, of course, who I think we've established are big jerks. Telemachus returns from his journey and he's like, all right, this is my son. He's a grown up Spider-Man now. And when I left him, he was just a little kid. And so I got to like at least meet this guy and reveal myself to him. And he does that. So he reveals himself to a son at least.
44:20Chuck Bryant:He does. And his son's like, great. Let's figure out how to get the house back, right? And your kingdom and everything. So they get together and start planning how to get everything back. And meanwhile, Penelope's finally like, okay, my husband is dead. And I'm going to hold a contest for all of you suitors. Whoever can shoot an arrow through 12 axe heads in a row, which only Odysseus has been able to do. Whoever can do that, I will marry. And so they hold a contest, or she does, and every single one of the hundred suitors misses, can't do it. Then Odysseus is the beggar, is like, can I have my try?
45:00Chuck Bryant:And she allows it, and he successfully shoots the arrow through the 12 axe heads, and she knows that that's Odysseus, but she still has a test for him.
45:10Josh Clark:That's right. Well, before that, though, So the big part of that is being able to string that bow because apparently it's just some bow that's so powerful that no one has ever been able to even string it.
45:23Chuck Bryant:Wow.
45:24Josh Clark:So Odysseus, of course, once he strings that thing, everyone's like, oh, is that the dude?
45:30Chuck Bryant:Okay.
45:30Josh Clark:And then the shooting the arrow through is almost like the cherry on top.
45:34Chuck Bryant:Gotcha. Okay.
45:35Josh Clark:Yeah.
45:35Chuck Bryant:And then, of course, the suitors are like, well, if they suspect who he is or now they know who he is, a huge battle takes place with Odysseus and Telemachus. Vanquishing is probably the best word for it. All hundred suitors. Right. And I'm sure it's very satisfying to see them all get their due. you.
45:52Josh Clark:Yeah, they get their due. And after the battle, Penelope, who is at this point, she's like, I think that might be my guy. Like, first of all, he looks just like him. Right. And second of all, he could string that bow and no one else could. And then he made that shot. So it's just one of those things where you have to suspend disbelief a little bit. It's an ancient text, you know, because you would think as soon as her husband walks through the door, he'd be like, honey, I'm home. And she's like, oh, my God, it's you. Sure. But she suspects that it's him and confirms it in this way in front of Odysseus.
46:25Josh Clark:She's asked for a servant to move their marital bed. Like, hey, can you move this over here? I'm doing a little redecorating. And Odysseus knows he was like, you can't move that thing. I carved that bed from a still live olive tree. So that thing is still like literally rooted to the ground. And I know that it can't be moved. And she's like, it is him.
46:44Chuck Bryant:Yeah. And so they get back together. It's very sweet, I'm sure. Telemachus is there. Everything's going really great. Then a civil war breaks out among the Souter's families, who many of them are ready to avenge the death of their family members. And before things can get really out of hand, Athena, who's also the goddess of war in addition to wisdom, steps in and says, stop this war. That's enough war for now. And everybody lays down their arms and Odysseus is finally home and things are back to normal. It's like the end of a Brady Bunch episode. Everything's just back to normal. That's right.
47:23Josh Clark:Except cousin Oliver's there. So everyone's kind of wondering where he came from. So we should probably talk a little bit more about just the history because I wondered after I saw it, because again, I hadn't studied this, so I didn't know a lot about it. I was like, I mean, what about like, was any of this true? Was there a sort of stand-in for Odysseus? And was there even a Trojan war and all this stuff? And it turns out like probably not, right?
47:49Chuck Bryant:Well, they do think that there was probably a Trojan war. They do think that they've kind of identified Troy. It's a, now it's a town that's called Hizarlik. There's a mountain nearby called that, Hesarlec. And they're like, we're pretty sure this is the actual Troy that was originally discovered in the 19th century by Heinrich Schliemann. And it shows evidence of having been burned and rebuilt time after time after time. But there's one layer, layer seven, that they're like, this coincides with Homer's time. And they found some things like they found a pile of rocks that they think is slingshot ammunition outside of the city.
48:29Chuck Bryant:And they're like, evidence of war. So historians seem to think that this is probably Troy, and it conceivably gives some backup to the idea that there was a Trojan War and it did take place during Homer's time.
48:45Josh Clark:Right. Whether or not there was a Trojan horse, there have been some archaeological finds that were pre-Odyssey that depicted men climbing out of a giant wheeled horse. So you might think like, boom, of course there was. But a lot of people think it was probably like symbolic or maybe a metaphor that Homer adapted. There are definitely routes and paths that they sail that are, you know, historically accurate throughout the Mediterranean Sea. Right. Although they don't know like the exact path and if that's like a real thing. But they think that a lot of the stuff like the monsters may be, again, symbolic about seafaring things that you had to navigate around, basically, like Scylla and Charybdis are the opposing currents of the Strait of Messina, or the sirens are maybe the shoals along the Mediterranean that are dangerous.
49:39Chuck Bryant:Right. Somebody pointed to Mount Etna on Sicily as the cyclops, one-eyed cyclops, which was really destructive. Sure, it does. It seems like a stretch to me, but the idea that these are metaphors for navigating conditions that you have to look out for makes a lot of sense because these stories were told by seafaring people. So that definitely holds a lot of weight for sure.
50:04Josh Clark:Yeah. So my initial question is like, why is this thing still interesting to people? And it's, you know, it's because the story, like it is a truly timeless story because And it has a lot of universal appeal because it's about homecoming and everyone can identify with that kind of thing at one point. You know, a hero's struggle. That's certainly nothing new. Like that's still a thing in, you know, almost every movie. You know, there's coming of age. There's regret. There's adventure. There's family. There's good guys and bad guys. It's like a lot of just the tenets of great movie making are just kind of right there in black and white or I guess papyrus and whatever color they printed ink with.
50:49Chuck Bryant:Right. And I think it also goes to show like it touches on values that are so universal, at least, you know, to Western eyes and ears that we still hold those same values today. They still make sense to us. They don't seem totally foreign. Yeah, exactly. What else you got? Anything else?
51:08Josh Clark:yeah i mean there's been adaptations over the years uh beyond this movie obviously uh 1922 the novel ulysses by james joyce was a big one because ulysses is the latin version of odysseus so that's what he's writing about in that yeah uh there was a great novel and um i haven't read yet but i want to margaret atwood in 2005 wrote a novel called uh the penelopead the penelopead How do you say that?
51:35Chuck Bryant:The Penelope ad is what I'm going to say.
51:37Josh Clark:The Penelope ad, I guess? Yeah, like the Iliad and Penelope.
51:39Chuck Bryant:It's Penelope. She combined those two because it's the Odyssey told from Penelope's point of view.
51:45Josh Clark:Yeah, that's kind of cool.
51:46Chuck Bryant:And then, oh brother, where art thou? Is obviously an allegory for the Odyssey. I've never noticed it before. I've heard that ever since the movie came out and I never, I still didn't ever notice it. But I wonder now if I went back and watched it, if I would get it.
52:01Josh Clark:I think so. I mean, it opens with a quote from Homer on screen. So they clearly tell you like what this is. Up front. And, you know, George Clooney's characters name Ulysses, which is, again, the Latin version of Odysseus. Okay. It's their journey home. Sure. Very, you know, sort of plainly. Penelope, in the movie, his wife's name is Penny, Holly Hunter. Okay. Okay. There are suitors trying to take her hand that he has to fight.
52:33Chuck Bryant:Stay out of Woolworths.
52:35Josh Clark:Exactly. There's a blind prophet that is, you know, there's just a blind prophet in the movie. There's just like a blind seer.
52:43Chuck Bryant:Right.
52:43Josh Clark:The Cyclops is Big Dan Teague, John Goodman's character.
52:47Chuck Bryant:Why is he the Cyclops? Because he has one eye. Oh, he has a patch over his eye. That's right. I forgot. Yeah.
52:53Josh Clark:So he's a Bible salesman. the sirens are like very clearly in there they're like literally singing at the creek and like they're under their trance Cersei and the pigs is more like the toad they told us you was a toad yeah that's right so it turns Jontotura into a toad instead of a swine in this case
53:13Chuck Bryant:okay all right I guess I'm convinced now
53:16Josh Clark:yeah and there's also like a Poseidon's wrath is in there there's the song the suitors in the song when they sing Man of Constant Sorrow. It's like, it's very kind of directly taken from the Odyssey and only the way that the Coen brothers could do something like that. They're great. They're so great. And there's a sequel too, right?
53:33Chuck Bryant:To the, oh brother, where art thou? No, to the Odyssey. Yeah, the Telegany, which is about Odysseus's other son that's not mentioned in the Odyssey, but it supposes that he had a son with Circe's on that island and they produced the son Telegonus. And Telegonus is not quite as loyal to his father as Telemachus is because he goes home and kills Odysseus and he marries Penelope. Telemachus just shrugs and says, okay, well, I guess I'll marry Circe to get back at you and they all become immortal.
54:12Josh Clark:That's right. They believe it was written by a Greek poet named Hugomon of Cyrene. The funny thing about this one is it was actually lost to history. So what we know about the telegony is references from other writings about it. So maybe one day if the Odyssey is ever truly lost to history, it will listen to this podcast to write the next version.
54:38Chuck Bryant:Man, that was amazing. That's it for the Odyssey. We could turn this into a 20-part series if we wanted to, but we don't. and if you're like I really like the movie I really like this episode there's so much to read about interpreting the Odyssey that's just super fascinating so go forth and multiply your awareness of the Odyssey and in the meantime everybody I think it's time for listener mail
55:05Josh Clark:This is about rope Hey guys long time listener I love the rope episode I especially enjoyed the history of rope making the explanation of how something so seemingly simple is actually a pretty ingenious piece of technology I do think you guys missed a cool opportunity, though, to talk about rope as a transformative lifting technology. I think we might have briefly said something about raising houses, but maybe not even. While sailing ships were undoubtedly critical to connecting the world, rope, especially combined with pulleys, is what allowed us to turn human and animal muscle into something enormously more useful.
55:38Josh Clark:Think about how much of ancient civilization depends on moving very heavy things upward. Temples, city walls, aqueducts, bridges, you name it. rope didn't just rig the ships and build civilizations help build the civilizations themselves. Anyway, great episode guys. Thanks for making me spend the rest of the day thinking about rope. Not something I expected to do. That is from Jonathan.
55:57Chuck Bryant:Thanks a lot Jonathan. You make a great case just like you did Chuck with comparing your brother Warth on the Odyssey. Okay. If you want to be like Jonathan and send us an awesome email we love that kind of thing you can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom with a sword and And send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
56:21Josh Clark:Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
56:37Josh Clark:What if your soda actually did something for you? Introducing Sky Pop Protein Soda. With 10 grams of complete protein, zero sugar, and 45 calories, Sky Pop Protein Soda offers four delicious flavors with big taste and real benefits. Light, refreshing, and ready for wherever your day takes you. It's anytime protein that helps you reach higher. Sky Pop Protein Soda. Reach for the sky. Get your Sky Pop Protein Soda now at Target or King Soopers.
57:07Chuck Bryant:30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City.
57:12Josh Clark:Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors? Or will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other. And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough. But we're not stopping, are we?
57:29Chuck Bryant:Listen to Revisionist History, The Staten Island Problem, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
57:37Josh Clark:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
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Why does the story of The Odyssey endure this many years after it was first spoken? Listen in to find out.
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