We Got to Sesame Street

26:44It started off with a black and white cast, and I mean that was still kind of strange or unusual for TV in America. but they keep doing it. And what's kind of saddening is every time they do it, it's like, oh my God, I can't believe how great this is that they're including this character. And then there's another segment of the public who's like, I can't believe they're including that character. It's just sad. Either way, I think it's both kind of sad because what they're doing, what Sesame Street does is they say, there's a group of people out there who are being neglected that kids that we're talking to interact with and we need to bring them on just to normalize them because they're just normal people and we need to show that so they've they've introduced um a number of characters that proved to be controversial over the years what i like about sesame street with the exception of roosevelt franklin they basically just stay mute on it and they're like you guys sort it out we're gonna just do our thing over here yeah for sure uh and this was you know pretty early on too in 1978 they had a character with Down syndrome who was in preschool.

27:50His name was Jason Kingsley and was the son of a writer, Emily Kingsley, for Sesame Street. And so all of a sudden they started having more kids with challenges and disabilities. They've had kids that are hearing impaired. They've had kids in wheelchairs over the years. Recently, they've kind of brought it into the modern age for issues that kids face. Sadly, more and more these days, one character had food insecurity and eventually homelessness. Yeah, that's Lily. Yeah, and another whose father was in prison and then another kid who was in foster care because her mother is battling opioid addiction.

28:28So they're, I mean, they've never been afraid to bite off some really, really tough stuff that sadly kids have to deal with and they know they have to deal with this stuff so they're not backing away from it. Yeah, one of the other things that Sesame Street does when it introduces like a Muppet like this is shine a light on the fact that this is an actual thing. Like, they're not like, what obscure, terrible situation can we find and base a Muppet on? Apparently, in the United States, 2.5 million children are homeless at any given time. 2.61 million children have a father or a parent who's in prison, and another 1.4 million have a parent addicted to opioids.

29:09So it's not like these are niche topics that niche puppets are built on. These are real challenges that a lot of little kids in the United States face, whether you consider it tasteful or not. Yeah, for sure. We mentioned that they put their money where their mouth is as far as continuing to do research and study about its effect on kids and potential outcomes because that was the mission statement from the very beginning. So they couldn't just be like, we're doing a great job, so we're good. they got into the educational testing service to do a study after just season one and they sampled 943 kids from urban areas and then one rural area and the kids there were disadvantaged kids in urban areas and rural areas there were Spanish speaking kids there were advantaged suburban kids in this study and they found that kids really did learn from the show and that the more you watch the more they learned and the more they knew, which is pretty great.

30:12Yeah, that was that was season one, right? Yeah. So they went back and said, let's figure out if this worked. There is a 2013 study that kind of recreated it intentionally or otherwise. But rather than looking at the United States, they took it on an international scale. And it was a meta analysis of 24 studies that had been conducted on the effects of Sesame Street. And all combined, this meta-analysis looked at 10 ,000 children in 15 different countries. So it was a pretty robust study. And they found the same thing, that there were significant positives associated with kids watching Sesame Street, and that kids who watched more performed better in school.

30:53And that this effect carried, no matter the income level of the country, low-income, middle-income, high-income country, doesn't matter. The effects were the same. and it hit three different outcomes, cognitive outcomes, learning about the world and social reasoning. And basically it just turned every single one of these 10 ,000 children into a super child. Yeah. There was one, well, just why they have the S on their chest, right? Yeah. Super child. Another study, I thought this one was pretty striking to me because they could actually do a fairly direct AB comparison. The American Economic Journal for Melissa Kearney and Philip Levine did a study because they were like, hey, wait a minute.

31:35In those early years, there were UHF stations and VHF stations and some areas had some. And then, you know, a couple of neighborhoods over another, you know, they might may not have the same access. So they could literally compare districts and elementary schools and outcomes with people who did not have the show at all and people who had it. And they found that the show actually did improve outcomes and that the positive effect of the show was particularly pronounced for boys and black non-Hispanic children and children who grew up in other counties who had economic disadvantage. So it was literally helping and targeting the kids that they were hoping to target while also being good for everyone overall.

32:19Yeah. And one specific outcome I saw just for an example in that study was that the kids who watched Sesame Street were 14 % more likely to be in an age-appropriate grade in middle school or high school. So they hadn't been held back or they were 14 % likelier to have not been held back than kids who didn't watch it. Yeah, pretty great. Yeah, statistically significant. Yeah, this is a pretty good quote too. The New Republic, their quote is that Sesame Street was essentially the first MOAC, massive online open course, providing educational content to viewers for free. and a 2015 white paper from the early childhood education group said it's one of the largest and least costly interventions yeah and you might be like with new republic that's pretty liberal rag of course it likes sesame street we found a quote from the national review which is the what and the national review called sesame street the one great thing accomplished by lbj's great society which is a hilarious quote.

33:20And that was in 2021. Just one thing. Right. Hey, it's good for Sesame Street, though. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Everybody loves Sesame Street. So I guess we'll press on, Chuck, and plug into the rest of the world, because like we said, it shows up in 150 to 170 countries, and there's at least 30 co-productions around the world. And it turns out they're really fun to read about and talk about. They really are, because like you said, depending on the country, They're going to tailor it for their country and have characters that reflect things kids might recognize. So if you go to Israel and watch Oscar the Grouch, you'll see that Oscar's name, Moisheh Ufnik, pretty good name.

34:04It means grouch in Hebrew. Yeah, but you probably won't see Oscar the Grouch or Count von Count in Afghanistan. Afghanistan has its own co-production called My Best Attempt is Bach E. Simpson. and they have cultural taboos against trash and vampirism. So Oscar and The Count don't really translate to the Afghani version of Sesame Street. The Sim Sim's. Right. I wonder if that's the theme. Yeah, there's the Sesame in Arabic or Arabic-like languages or Arabic-related languages. Sim Sim or Sumsum has, it seems to be what Sesame is. Yeah, I think so. So if you ever run across a trivia question that says, what is sesame in Arabic?

34:50You better say Sim Sim. Yeah. S-I-M-S-I-M. If spelling counts. One word. If you go to the UK and you said cookie monster, they'd say, I think you mean biscuit monster. Of course, because biscuits are cookies over there. And if you go to Latin America, you might not see Big Bird, but you might see Abelardo, who is Big Bird's cousin. It's a giant parrot. Yeah. So you've got like different characters or the same characters with different names or characters that just don't show up. But there's also characters that are just totally new. And they kind of follow the original Sesame Street's program of like, let's include people who are stigmatized or left out.

35:31And so the South African version of Sesame Street, Takalani. Yeah. I don't know why I had trouble saying that. Takalani Sesame. Delicious. Yeah. They included a character named Kami. Kami is based on the word kamogelo, which means acceptance in some South African indigenous languages like Zulu. And the reason they did that is because Kami is an HIV positive orphan of a mother with AIDS who died. And this is a Muppet who is basically playing with other Muppets to show little kids that you don't have to be fearful of having a friend who is HIV positive. It's not dangerous to play with them. And in South Africa, that was very controversial because a lot of people have HIV in South Africa, but it's still very stigmatized.

36:20So, of course, Sesame Street in South Africa was like, let's get Kami in there. They could probably have an American version of that same character, or at least in the 80s. They could. I read that there was a letter written by a small panel of congresspeople to PBS basically saying, don't even think about it. Oh, boy. Since 98, there's been an Israeli-Palestinian co-production, which is super unique, obviously, called Reckoff Sum Sum. Oh, yeah. Or Shara's Sim Sim, like you said. And this is pretty great. It's Israeli and Palestinian kids together. And they're from separate streets, but they get together and hang out and play and talk.

37:05And when they do, the language, either Hebrew or Arabic is translated in subtitles into the other language. And they weren't just like, well, we'll just pat ourselves on the back for this. They were trying to accomplish something. So they measured outcomes again and did studies. And they found that watching the show made kids in that area more likely to use positive terms to describe kids on the other side of that conflict. Man, Sesame Street. We should just say that after every great thing we talk about them doing. Yeah. And, you know, actually, there's a quote that kind of goes along with that.

37:38Andrew S. Nazios, who was who led USAID under George W. Bush. He said the Arabic language version of the show was the, quote, biggest weapon against Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism. Yeah, I thought about that, too, that like you're using Sesame Street to spread essentially global, good, basic human values in places where those are sometimes in short supply, you know? Yeah. I think that's cool. And then that one, the Arabic version you just mentioned, it's called Al-An Simsim. They use that in Syrian refugee camps because little kids in Syrian refugee camps, schools were canceled because the government dropped chemical weapons on their town.

38:24But they're still getting to watch this Arabic version of Sesame Street to make sure that they're not left behind. Yeah. And, you know, since we're here before we break, we might as well mention that the Sesame Workshop is a nonprofit that gets part of their funding through the U.S. federal government, through the USAID program. and just a couple of months ago, the current administration announced that, obviously, USAID, and by the way, episode coming up on that soon, on that organization, is being cut at the behest of the Department of Government Efficiency. So Sesame Street is going to lose a lot of funding, and the current president said the Arabic language version was part of hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud.

39:13But the good news is that it accounts for only 4 % of their total funding. So hopefully, I mean, they were pretty much caught off guard and are scrambling a bit, but hopefully it's not like the end of Sesame Street. No, I saw in real dollars about$5 million. But the problem is that's still a significant, like they're operating at a deficit. So they basically need every dollar they can get. So it's still hitting them. 4 % even matters. Yeah. So I think in March 2025, they announced that they were having to lay off employees, which is not something that happens all the time at Sesame Street. Although I'm sure they've tackled it plenty of times.

39:52Yeah. Maybe there's an episode about it. Probably. Should we take a break? I just want to throw out one more. We talked about the Afghani version of Sesame Street. In 2016, they debuted a girl Muppet named Zari who goes to school wearing a hijab. Yeah, pretty great. Yep. Take that, Taliban. All right. Well, we're going to take that second break, and we're going to wrap it up here right after this. Stuff you should know. New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there.

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43:04so Chuck before we broke I was talking about how Sesame Street probably has um has tackled the episode of of um being fired parent being fired right and the reason why is because they have a long history of tackling tough topics that date back pretty far. I think in 1982, that's usually where people trace the origin of Sesame Street, just taking on very adult-themed episodes that kids sometimes have to deal with head on with the death of Mr. Hooper, who ran Hooper's store. Yeah. I mean, I have a hard time even talking about this one. It was 1982. Actor Will Lee, who played Mr. Hooper passed away in IRL.

43:44And they were like, let's not replace him. Let's use this as an opportunity to teach kids about death and grief. And Big Bird, they aired it on Thanksgiving, so parents were more likely to be home. They got together with, again, they weren't just like, hey, let's just have the writers whip something up. They got together with religious leaders and child psychologists to kind of figure out the best way to do this. and they decided on Big Bird kind of taking the lead and saying very sadly, I want to give Mr. Hooper a picture that I drew when he comes back. And that's when they're like, Big Bird, I've got some bad news for you, my friend.

44:24Yeah, Gordon famously rolled his eyes. Yeah, he's not coming back. Death is permanent. And it was a huge, huge deal for not just Sesame Street, but just how we talk to kids about this kind of thing, you know? Yeah, because it took kids seriously as, you know, thinking, feeling individuals because they discussed replacing him with a new Mr. Hooper and just pretending like it wasn't a different actor or saying Mr. Hooper retired and he's not coming back, but he's retired, not dead. And they're like, no, let's use this opportunity. It is really tear-jerking to watch. Yeah. In 1985, another big lesson came along when, you know, if you haven't seen the show, Mr.

45:08Snuffleupagus is this sort of big, I don't even know what you call it, kind of a big long-haired monster-y thing. It kind of touched a woolly mammoth, I think. Yeah. But Big Bird, Snuffleupagus was Big Bird's imaginary friend. And the adults, like, couldn't see this imaginary friend. And in that episode, he was seen by the rest of the cast. And they were like, hey, maybe this can inspire kids who are maybe child abuse victims that you don't need to fear that adults won't believe you if you reveal something to them. And so, you know, they tackled it through Snuffleupagus all of a sudden becoming a real thing to the adults on the show.

45:47Yeah, because he always had been real. But anytime Big Bird tried to introduce some people, he would just not be there for some reason or another. so he was real and when they apologized to him I think Bob the music teacher said we'll believe you whenever you tell us something from now on Big Bird like they really kind of drove it home beat the little kids over the head with this they also tackled 9-11 not in a direct way by like talking about the Pentagon and the Twin Towers but it was a show very clearly centered around kids you know dealing with like a big sort of shared tragedy and how they might go about that Oh, let's see.

46:25What else? Another part of that, too, is there was a fire at Hooper's store. They didn't show the fire. It was just off screen. They mentioned it. They referenced it happening. And some firefighters show up to put it out. And Elmo is just freaked out by this. So the firefighters stop and comfort him and tell him it's OK. And they help deal with that kind of, I don't know. I think the message was listen to firefighters because they're all right. Yeah. Great message. Kids love fire trucks anyway, so they're halfway there. Right. They also dealt with kids who have parents in the military that are off at war at one point.

47:03They've had episodes on hurricanes and dealing with a natural disaster like that. And they even dealt with the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 because kids were at home watching a lot of TV. And their parents are pretty stressed out. So they had a special episode all about COVID. Yeah, including when the vaccines came out, Big Bird and I think everybody else got vaccinated. Big Bird had a bandaid on his wing. He said, my wing hurts a little bit, but other than that, I'm okay. Yeah, so you mentioned the problems with the funding. It started in the mid-80s. They had reports that expenses were going to outpace revenues, perhaps.

47:41They do a lot of licensing. I think about two-thirds of their revenue comes from licensing to books and toys and things. The monster at the end of this book is a classic children's book with Grover as the center character. My favorite Grover book, one of my favorite books growing up was Grover and the Everything in the World Museum. Did you ever read that one? Uh-uh. It might have been after your time, but I love that book. The drawing in there is so great. It's all Grover. Yeah. They've been talking about, you know, the recent cuts are one thing, but they've been talking about, you know, reducing funding and have reduced funding somewhat over the years.

48:18for a long time though. I believe 2015 they were operating at a loss maybe for the first time. And so HBO stepped up and said, hey, you know what? If you give us a jump on PBS, we'll pay you some pretty good money. So they got the episodes nine months before PBS. But in December of last year of 2024, Warner Brothers Discovery said, you know what? We're not gonna do that deal anymore. We can license backup episodes still, or we want to still. Um, but, uh, the deal has concluded and I think that also put them in a bit of a money bind. Yeah. So I guess HBO max agreed to take season 20 or six season 55, which is currently out now, but they're not taking season 56 and the Sesame workshops like, well, we're still going to make a season 56.

49:08Who, who wants to buy new episodes, brand new episodes of Sesame street. So it's up for auction right now. I didn't see any interested buyers, but the idea of Sesame Street just going away because no one's going to put it on the air is mind-bogglingly sad to me, and I just don't think it's going to happen. A Stuff You Should Know production. There you go. We can pool our money together. $100 million or something? What would that cost? I don't know, but I'll bet we could get it out of Jerry. I don't know. I don't think it's going to be$100 million because that's like all of their operating costs for a year.

49:46And I mean, they get a lot of their money from licensing toys and pajamas and all that stuff. So when you buy those things, you're actually directly helping Sesame Street. That's where I get my pajamas. Yeah, I'll bet we could get it for 20 million right now. The problem is, Chuck, is we don't have anywhere to show it. I think that's a big obstacle we would have to overcome as well. Oh, we could cut a deal. Okay. Well, God knows how much that's going to cost us, but we'll figure it out. Maybe we should finish up with some sort of random sort of factoids that you might want to share with your friends.

50:21Here's a pretty fun stat. The characters on Sesame Street are some of the most recognizable in the world and certainly in the U.S. 75 % of people under 55 told a YouGov poll that they even have a favorite character. Do you want to know the top 10 in order? Sure. Guess. Who's your favorite? We never said who our favorites were. I don't remember. I used to like the count. Yeah, who's great? One, two, three. Ooh, that's a good count. Cookie Monster's number one. Elmo's number two. Big Bird's number three, which I guess makes sense. Grover, number four. Grover is my favorite. The count, Mr. Stuffleupagus, Ernie, and then Bert, and then Abby, which is a newer character, I think.

51:13I'm not sure when she came along. And then the last one, number 10, is Other. My favorite. So the title, if you're wondering where that came from, it was from Alibaba and the 40 Thieves, Open Sesame. Cooney is on record saying that that was probably the least bad title, and we thought Open Sesame, we felt like we were opening children to knowledge and education. So it's kind of a weird little origin, but I can't think of it as anything else. Yeah, and lucky for them, it translates pretty well in Arabic. Sim Sim. What was the Mexican version called that had a great name? Plaza Sesamo. I love that.

51:54Yeah, I do too. Can you tell me how to get there, though? Well, I'm glad you brought that up. I was looking up stuff about the theme song. It turns out there's not much interesting about it other than it debuted on the first episode and has been toyed with or altered here or there over the years, but it's the same theme song in every episode of Sesame Street. All 10 million episodes. We've got to shout out the writers. The music by Joe Raposo and lyrics by Raposo and John Stone and Bruce Hart. Nice. That was nice of you. And then did we talk about Tickle Me Elmo? Well, no. This is the third act reveal.

52:31Okay. So we talked about Elmo suddenly becoming very famous. The reason why is because in 1996, the Tickle Me Elmo doll became like the must-have Christmas toy. And I know we've talked about it in one of our Christmas episodes, but let's just briefly mention it again. Yeah. I mean, thank you, Rosie O'Donnell, for this one. Tickle Me Elmo came on Rosie O'Donnell, and it was a big, big deal. This may have been a Black Friday episode thing too because trying to buy those Elmos at the time was a thing. There was stampeding. People went to the hospital. There were people selling them on the black market for like really high prices.

53:12So Elmo was an overnight sensation like 16 years after, or I guess 12 years after his debut. Yeah. 14 years. Also, Elmo is the only non-human to testify before Congress. That's right. On behalf of music education in school. I got two more things. Just want to call out Julia, a four-year-old Muppet with autism who's been around since 2017. And then apparently this year, season 55, one of the big themes that they're tackling are big feelings and kids dealing with them. And they're even debuting a new Muppet who's teaching kids like breathing techniques to calm themselves down. That's great. And then last thing I have is if you want a little dose of nostalgia, go watch the full compilation of the pinball count songs.

54:02Remember those? No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. I don't remember that. It came out in 76. So, yeah, you probably have moved on to Electric Company by then. You're like, that's baby stuff. It's great. You should watch it. The animation in it is beautiful. Beautifully 70s. It's great. Yeah. I love it. Anything else? Yeah. In 2005, there was a bit of a stir because Cookie Monster, you know, was known for just ravaging cookies and stuffing them in his face and crumbs flying everywhere. And that's the beauty of Cookie Monster. But people were like, you know, maybe it's not such a good idea to have a character that's just binge eating sugar.

54:44Right. And sweets and treats. So they use Cookie Monster as an impulse control model for moderation. And a cookie became a sometimes food from Cookie Monster. And of course, people are going to be like, what are you kidding me? Is this going to be Veggie Monster next? And there were letter writing campaigns and there was a petition and all this stuff. And Veggie Monster was never going to be a thing. I guess they just filed those complaint letters in the circular file. And it's like, settle down, everybody. I got one more I overlooked. Do you want to hear it? Sure. This is Arcane. But Telly, remember Telly Monster we talked about?

55:23Yes, but no. Okay, so Telly has a hamster named Chucky Sue, and he used to have a stuffed animal horse named Clark. Oh, how about that? Yeah, pretty neat, huh? Yeah. Total coincidence, too, is from the 90s, both of them. Yeah, just like that Hinsonep just coming out. Yeah, lots of Kermit. Kersmit. Since I said Kersmit, of course, everybody, that means it's time for listener mail. Yeah, this is a little bit on libraries from Name Redacted. Hey guys, love the mini on alternative libraries. I'm a member of the board at my local library, and my wife is a school librarian. I want to salute and celebrate our librarians who are largely thought of as old ladies with buns and cat-eye glasses, but they are actually on the front lines of the fight for the First Amendment in many ways.

56:14My local library has a teen room whose librarian is collecting the LGTBQ books discarded by other libraries because of certain bad actors. The librarian at the high school I work has sent red cards telling our heavily immigrant population what to say if ICE immigrants show up at their door or stop them on the way to school. And apparently his wife, the librarian, has to really get involved in reference searches these days because of, like, you know, book banning and just getting rid of certain educational proposals. So one of her favorite T-shirts says, what is more punk than the local library?

56:51So thanks guys for all you do and keep it up. And that is from Name Redacted. Thanks, Name Redacted. I know we talked about that some in our banned books episode. Yeah. But yes, we can't say it enough. God bless librarians for making sure that people are educated as we can be for free. That's right. Perfect fit for this episode too. Yeah, I thought so too. Well, if you want to get in touch with us like Name Redacted did, you can tell us your name or not. Doesn't matter. We'll clearly protect you. You can send it via email, probably encrypted if you want, to stuffpodcasts at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

57:32For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

57:45This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom Podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the valley of despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

58:17Hey, it's Joel. And Matt. From HowToMoney. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight.

59:04You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. John has never been anything but gay, but he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Palk story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.