"Couldn't get out of bed": Effie Kats on rebuilding after failure

0:04Shameless Media. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by L 'Oreal Paris. Flat hair, need a lift. The new L 'Oreal LV collagen lifter gives fine hair an instant volume lift that lasts 72 hours. Hi everyone, this is Stylish, your podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. I'm Nyman Fatima and welcome to our Friday episode. We've got a bit of a treat For you today, we've got a very special guest in the studio with us, Australian fashion designer and founder Effie Katz. I'm really pumped. I've always wanted to meet Effie, so I can't believe I'm in the studio with her today. Effie is the founder of her iconic namesake label, Effie Katz, known for its meticulous tailoring, luxury evening gowns and sustainable made-to-measure clothing.

0:49If that wasn't enough, she's also the co-founder of Base Brand, creating elevated essentials that make everyday style very effortless. But before building the global brand that she has today, Effie was the founder of Zachary the Label, a hugely successful cult fashion brand worn by the likes of Kylie Jenner that ultimately collapsed, forcing her to start again from scratch. But Effie did rebuild. Effie has recently opened her flagship store in Armadale, Melbourne and welcomed her daughter Rosa into the world earlier this year. Today, Effie and I talk about rebuilding from failure, work-life balance and the Australian fashion industry.

1:24Let's get into it.

1:30Effie Katz, welcome to Stylish. Thank you for having me. One thing we do on Stylish every week, the hosts bring something called the swap, which is basically like our recommendation for the week. So it can be anything. It can be an account. It can be a beauty product, just clothing, an article you've read. Do you have a swap for us today? I actually do, but it's a bit weird. No, I love that. So I've always had this thing with public speaking and like during my pregnancy, while I was going through all the hormonal shifts and all of that. I just could not like do interviews. I couldn't public speak.

2:02I couldn't any of that. And I was like, I've got to get over this. I read this thing that was like, just write. I love public speaking. My voice deserves to be heard a hundred times and you'll be fine. And so I did it. Did it work? Oh, here we are. Well, here we are. Let's see. Let's see. Here we are. That's perfect. Let's get into it, Effie. for the listeners today might not be familiar with your story, how would you describe Effie Cats, the brand today? So Effie Cats, the brand today has had quite the evolution, but today we are predominantly evening wear. We are affordable, we're classic, we're timeless.

2:40You know, I started EK predominantly because I, you know, really couldn't afford to look how I wanted to look. And I wanted to obviously be able to do that for myself. and bring that to others and also produce pieces that are like timeless, elegant, chic, elevated, but without the price tag. Do you have a certain item that you reckon you're really known for? I think for us, it's the bridesmaid gown. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Going back a little bit, when I started Effie Cats, I was doing customs. So I was dealing with all shapes and sizes. so I would be dealing with a girl who was a size four up to a girl who you know was like a 20 yeah and I would talk to my customers and I say what do you like about your body what don't you like about your body what do you want to enhance what do you want to conceal that insight really gave me I guess the knowledge of the female psyche yeah and so what I then did was design a range of dresses so we have our what we call our core collection in our crate you've got your strapless you've got your square neck, you've got your high neck, and they'll all come in a range of colours so that no matter what shape or size you are, there's one that fits you and it's all in the same colour.

3:56So I think that's why we're so popular in that space. That makes perfect sense because when you see a group of bridesmaids, they're not all the same size and they don't have the same style. So I think it really is a gap in the market to find something that fits everyone. I'm here for the everyday person because that's me. I grew up as the everyday person. I couldn't afford things. So no matter what, that is a principle that I will always stick to is that I want to be affordable. I don't want people to come to my store and be like, oh, I love that, but I can't afford it. Have you always had that ethos when it comes to shopping yourself?

4:30Have you been a savvy shopper? Oh, for my husband. These shoes would say absolutely no. When I was in my twenties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved to bargain for sure. I'm an accessories scale though. Otherwise I just make my clothes, which is great. Handy. Yeah. If I like something, I'm like, let's make something like this. So let's make something like that. And advantages of having a brand. Yeah. When a woman puts on your designs, how do you hope she feels? I think for me, it's about empowerment and I'll, I'll be very candid here. I never felt like the most attractive. Like I wasn't, I wasn't the hot one of the group.

5:07I was never, I mean, like I've had a bit of work downstairs. I'd like to hope I'm a little bit closer to that now. I mean, I would not believe that at all. I wasn't. So if I wore an outfit that made me feel sexy or womanly or like whatever, I felt more powerful. That is what I want women to feel like. It's almost like armor. Like when you put something that you feel amazing and you can tell when a woman's feeling herself, her posture changes, the way she looks at herself. I'm like, oh, you are feeling yourself. Do you have like a specific experience you've seen recently with a customer? We had a woman in and she tried on a few things.

5:46I can read someone's energy straight away and everything she was coming out in, I was like, no, no, no, no, I can tell. I could tell by her body language, just shifts in energy. And then she came out in this dress and I was like, yeah, feeling yourself. I can tell and she was like this is the one I was like yeah is that just like the best feeling in the world it is the best feeling in the world because I think empowering females in any way shape or form it's it's one of my main goals in life it's what it's why I do what I do well still found a journey didn't start with Effie Effie Cats before that came Zachary the label for listeners who may not know can you tell us a little bit about Zachary the label and how big it grew?

6:31Zachary grew very quickly. I started it when I was 23, 2013. Yeah. One night I was like, I don't want to finish this assignment. I'm going to start a brand. And my mom was like, and I went to my dad and I was like, dad, I'm going to start a brand. There's such a gap in the market. I ended up leaving dad, getting an investor and that just didn't end well. Yeah. Just to go back to your dad, there's a reason you went to your dad, right? Yes, dad's a tailor. Yes. Dad's a tailor. Amazing. Yes. So Zachary grew very quickly. We had like Kylie Jenner, you know, when she had her green hair. King Kylie.

7:06Yeah. I was in the King Kylie era. Oh, my God. Kendall, all that, you know, it was a really different time because there weren't many people on social media. But in the end, unfortunately lost the business. I won't point fingers, but there were decisions made to open stores. too many stores not enough stock and eventually the company went under and that was really hard so hard something you worked so hard for something I worked so hard for and also something I had before this person yeah and it had built I had 270 ,000 followers at that point wow to go from that and literally not being able to physically get out of bed because I was so depressed and eventually find the strength to like rebuild myself from absolutely nothing.

7:58Yeah. You know, that was quite a journey. Was there a moment that you can recall where you were like, this is taking a turn and I'm worried? The second we signed the papers. Yeah. I knew because there was a shift in energy. I liken it to my training wheels. I didn't see it at the time, but it was actually building me my resilience. I think what I didn't realize at the time was that in my darkest hour, we're getting really deep now guys, but in my darkest hour, I was actually on the path of my greatest achievement, which was coming out the other side of that as a winner. How did you pull yourself out of it?

8:41Did you see that there was a future? I am relentless. Yeah. You can knock me down, but you can't stop me. And I always knew what I wanted my life to be and I wouldn't have it any other way. So I was like, okay, we've cried, we've wallowed, let's get to work. When Zachary went under, you've kind of mentioned as well, affordability is really important to you. How did it feel not having financial control over your life? One thing for me, I've had a really challenging upbringing. And so that's taught me a lot of resilience, but also I've trained myself, I think in survival mode to never blame others.

9:28If something's happened, even if they did it to me, I met them. I brought them into my life. I brought them into my business. I did that. No matter what they did to me, I allowed it. I allowed them into my existence. So instead of pointing the finger and being a victim, I was like, okay, why did I allow this person into my life? When you start to take accountability in that way, you start to take control of your own destiny. And that's what I found in my healing journey. It was really important for me to take accountability for my actions that led Zachary to go under. That's so reflective of you and amazing that you're like, okay, I can blame others or I can move on.

10:10Well, yeah, but what's that going to do? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I love that. And how much time was there between Zachary and Effie Katz? I ended, officially Zachary ended in, I think it was like November 2017. Yeah. I had my little nervous breakdown in the middle. Yeah. And then I restarted in April 2018 for the EK business. and I started Bass Brand December that year, later that year. You know, I worked with my dad, with EK, and I worked with one of my best friends, Dylan, on Bass Brand. And, you know, Dylan was someone who really supported me through Zachary and the winding up of all of it. And that's how we started Bass because he believed in me and he said, I'll never come into your lane.

11:01And that was an issue in the past. Well, it's like finding what you're good at and knowing that. right? Yeah. And I guess in a business, you're not going to be good at everything. No, I'm not. I'm shit at numbers. Yeah. So it's like finding a strategy, forget it. Yeah. Well, it's like finding the person who can do that with you and create this partnership. Well, I'm a big believer in like higher people that are better than you at things. So, you know, I've always looked at myself with a really open mind and gone, these are my strengths. These are my weaknesses this is where I need someone this is where I don't you know this is where I thrive this is where I don't you know yeah I think running a business it takes a level of emotional intelligence I think in any business really going through so much devastation as well because I guess you're on the other side well yeah I know what it's like on the top I know it's like on the bottom a lot of people might be listening to this and they might have their own businesses and they might be feeling at that low point.

11:58It happens all the time. I'll be really candid. The start of this year was horrific for me. I had just given birth. My store was taking forever to open. And it's amazing how quickly PTSD kicks back in. In the weeks leading up to the store being open, I spiraled into a really, really dark mental space. And I think hormones were playing a part as well. You know, I was a new mom, but you know, I was like, what if we open? What if no one comes? What if I lose everything again? You know, what if it happens again? Really challenging time. Cause I had to face old wounds that I thought I'd healed from that I hadn't healed from, you know, when everything that could possibly go wrong goes wrong, everything.

12:46It's like I was being tested. I had the worst birth ever. My store was taking forever. My stock had every problem under the sun and every delay under the sun. Our figures at that point weren't great. We were owed collectively about 700 grand from all our suppliers. And my husband and I were just shelling out for this store. And out of your own pocket? Yeah. Yeah, wow. You know, and then I was dealing with PTSD. I went to a really dark place and I remember one of my staff members, I'm going to get emotional now. Take a breath if you need. Who I love. she came up to me and she was teary and she said I can't afford to live on this wage I really need this pain crease but I know at this point you can't afford it and I don't know how we're going to do it and I had a plan yeah in my mind because I've always got a plan and I I grabbed her hand I said listen she believed me listen to me help me execute this and if it doesn't work no hard feelings you can go get another job as much as I love you and I don't want you to go let's give it let's give it a crack yeah and our figures turned in two weeks I I just gave her that pay increase oh that's amazing it was the best it was the best feeling ever I just I adore her so much and it was such a a proud moment for me facing the demons of the past and then everything's coming at you from every direction I think as a business owner no matter what there's not a point where you can go oh I've made it that's great now yeah no there's always another problem but that's just that's that's the name of the game and that's how I choose to live my life and I'm a sicko and I wouldn't have it any other way I love it just remembering who I am yeah I have this belief that no matter what as long as my mind is intact yeah I can get myself through anything so I keep going back to that is there people around you who remind you who you are my husband yeah he's such a believer and supporter of me.

14:49So our marriage is very much like he's type A, I'm type B. So type A. Yeah. So type B. But we just work because I have these huge like, you know, grandiose ideas and like he's like the guy that makes it happen. Yeah. I'm like, don't take me into the kitchen. Just like let's make it happen. Let's go.

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16:19You said there was a turnaround in figures. What do you really attribute to that this time around? Well, the stock finally fucking came in, so that was great. But also one huge thing to overcome was getting in front of the camera. That was part of the strategy. And do you mean getting in front of the camera for your socials? Yes, talking through the product, wearing it, styling it. It was actually my base girls that started sort of forcing me to do it. But then I sort of adapted it to the EK model in a different way. So we'll do it in store or around store or whatever. So we did it our way. And now I'm like every Monday is our filming day in store.

16:58And I'm like filming day, let's go. Where before I'd be like, fuck, I don't want to do it. Yeah. How'd you get over it? I had no fucking choice. Yeah, exactly. That is exactly it. You know, I think if you want to get where you want to get, you've got to do what you hate doing sometimes. Can I be nosy and ask if it's made a difference in sales? Tripled. Wow. Yeah. That is crazy. At the second I started appearing, yeah. That's an amazing motivation to keep going. Yeah, totally. I listened to the podcast episode you did with Shameless in 2019. Yes. and you were working till nine or ten at night and six days a week.

17:38Yeah. Is that still what your week looks like? No. No. No. And I've worked damn hard to make sure it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. What is your relationship with work-life balance now? Like I said, now I think I've taken Shopify off my phone. I was addicted to it. And like if we were having a bad day, it would really dictate my mood, I found. Oh, BASE is on this today. Yeah. You know, EK is on this today. Like, well, we just dropped that. why isn't that working or when I'm with my child I want to be as present as I can be and also for my mental health yeah and I know it's so hard as a business owner as a founder to really draw that distinction yeah but it has been one of the most pivotal things that I've done I know I've noticed such an amazing like increase in my happiness my day-to-day happiness I don't know how else to put But if you're looking at it day to day and you're constantly like their phones pinging, pinging, pinging, pinging, pinging, pinging, I was always in fight or flight.

18:39So I could never be present. I just didn't want to be that anymore. I'm someone who's recently found themselves working two jobs. I find it quite hard to switch off. Do you have any tips for me in terms of how to disengage? I've started to think of it like this, right? What would the worst version of me want to do right now? Would the worst version of me want me to pick up my phone? and obsess or would the best version of me want me to put my phone down and actually disconnect so that I can be better for me tomorrow? That's really good. Thanks. Sometimes I'm profound. No, the manifestation is working.

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20:02Long time ago. When I was doing custom. Yeah. And obviously there's just like a lot of talk in the industry about influencers and where that industry is going and the trust the consumer has. How do you see influencers still fitting into your business? Well, it's interesting because I think there is a shift towards like founder-led content. People are really connecting with people that are like doing and creating and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I think there is still a space for influencers because I think people love to feel a part of people's lives, right? If that influencer's wearing a dress or a necklace or whatever, it's that person's way, well, I'll buy the same dress, I'll buy the same necklace, and we're connected in a way because it makes them feel closer to that person or they trust that person and they like their taste or, you know, whatever it is.

20:53So I think there is room for two. Has there been a recent occasion where you've seen something really pop off because of an influencer? Oh, yeah. All the things that were worn by my friends who are influencers at my event, all the coverage on what their outfits were, obviously they all have their audiences, right? And as that stuff was being released, when they were wearing it, it was just selling out. You just mentioned that your friends have a profile. Were they ones that you've kind of made along the journey? For me, much of it has been, you know, I was coming up through the ranks. I was a newbie for, you know, quite some time.

21:32And, you know, I'd work with people on certain things and then you start attending events and then you're chatting and then connections with people. And they've ended up becoming, you know, some of my closest friends. And I'm truly blessed to have the circle. A lot of my friends and we're also equally supportive, even if, you know, we're in a similar niche. still supportive you know Nadia does Henny yeah Henny makes denim Henny does basics I have base I make denim I do basics but I will be at a Henny event and she will come to a base event we don't have those fragile egos and our friendships are more important and we know supporting each other there's enough room for all of us to win yeah it doesn't need to be a competition no does it feel like a nice support system as well because they kind of know what you're going through?

22:21Yeah, definitely. I think I couldn't have got through this period. To be honest, like I'm on the tail end of it. I'm still feeling it. There's still some challenges. I wouldn't be at this point if it wasn't for the support of my husband, my family and my friends. Yeah, I'm very lucky. Obviously, one of the biggest milestones this year has been becoming a mum. Yes. Very exciting. How have you, I guess, navigated becoming a mum, having this like massive change to your life and then also having quite massive changes to your business and continuing to grow it. Like I said, I'm a psychopath, so I like to take on a hundred challenges at once, you know, like how many challenges can I take on?

23:00How many is too many? I don't know. Let's see. What really hit me the hardest was the hormones. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that. There was no way I would do a podcast. I wouldn't talk to anyone. I had that much anxiety just to speak, be seen, be heard. So that was really hard. And then I had postnatal depression, which I struggled with. I don't like being vulnerable, but embracing vulnerability is such an important part of growth. I didn't beat myself up about it. I think giving myself the grace of, you know, if I had a day where I regress, I wouldn't beat myself up. We really touched on my kinesiologist and I.

23:41She said, if you were your daughter, would you talk to her the way you talk to yourself? And I was like, no, that would be cruel. And she said, then why don't you do it to yourself? You need to give yourself grace. That really hit me. And I think when you have a child, your perspective on so many things shifts. And so now where I never would give myself grace, I've found the space inside me to allow myself that grace of feeling my feelings or, you know, there have been days where I just, I don't want to get out of bed and go to work. I don't have the capacity. I haven't slept, you know, as a new mom, well, she's six months old now.

24:20She's still not sleeping. You know, sometimes I'm exhausted and I'm like, you know what? I'm working from bed today or I'm not working at all. You know, before I was like, no, I have to get up. I have to work. I have to this. That was my worth. My worth was directly correlated with my productivity where now I'm like, no, it's not and that's fine it's for the greater good and it's not something that's you know it's taken me 36 years to get there yeah and a lot of kinesiology bills yeah I think I'm sure 23 year old you would look at you and be very proud yeah you know what and I think about that um you know I was on the climb yeah and I was an outsider in many ways and I had all these dreams and goals and I think about that girl what she would think if she saw me now I think she'd be impressed yeah And it's taken me a long time to just recognize that and even talk about myself like that.

25:08Coming into, obviously, this year, you've opened this new store. What made you want to open a store? You know what? Other than being a complete psychopath, like I said, I feel I'm very intuitive. I feel very aligned with my gut instincts. And I know inherently when something's wrong or when something's right. Yeah. And when that store became available, you know, I sort of knew it was going to be. I was like, that's my store. Yeah. You knew that's my store. Yeah. That's my store. And I did everything to make sure that I got that store. And I was like, if I don't get that store, that store. So it was about that one.

25:51That one. Specifically, yeah. I just knew that we were aligned. Yeah. I will never open a store unless it's that store. Wow. I was the real estate's worst nightmare. He was like, can you stop calling me? Like, you know, but whilst we were going through the renovations and like I said, everything that could have gone wrong, the builder, like we missed our builder's window and then Christmas and then he wasn't back till Feb. We paid six months rent in advance. We were just bleeding money and just hemorrhaging. And I was like, why did I do this to myself? I don't understand. And my husband's like, because it's you.

26:27and we'll get there. And, you know, and they're those moments where you doubt yourself. Every human being on the planet, I don't care who you are, has those moments of doubt. But my gut was like, that's your story. So it was worth the sleepless nights and the anxiety attacks. Well, it's beautiful. So it's very exciting. Well, final question for me. Yes. Obviously there were so many, like, iconic designs from Zachary that were, like, so viral. Is there one you'd bring back? Yes. There is. We had this T-bar dress. Yes. I think it was my first design. My first or my second. And I think it's still so relevant today.

27:05You know what? I've still got the pattern for it. So I'm going to go into the office and pull it out. Let's bring the T-bar back. I love it. Amazing. Thank you so much for coming in today, Effie. It's been a delight to talk to you. Thank you for having me. Guys, thanks so much for joining me today. You can follow us over on the Stylish Instagram for more content. and we also have a newsletter that drops every Wednesday. Thank you so much to the whole Stylish team, Lucy Hunt and Zoe Twiddell, and we'll see you back here next Wednesday.

27:41This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

27:47Effie Kats:Hello, it's Ruby Hall here. I'm the host of Shameless Media's interview show, Inherited, And I'm popping up to let you know about the conversation I had this week with National Treasure Robert Irwin. Rob likely needs no introduction. He's the son of Steve and Terry Irwin and one of the world's most beloved conservationists and now TV personalities. Robert was only two years old when his dad Steve passed away after he was tragically killed by a stingray. And in our conversation, Robert speaks so beautifully about the legacy his father has left behind and how he feels about following it and carving out his own.