Do you want the (celeb) house tour?

0:07This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma's new HydroBio HydroActive range. If you don't stop, why should your hydration? Find the Bioderma HydroBio range at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. Happy Friday. I'm Madison Sullivan-Thorth and I'm joined by my lovely co-host Rhiannon Joyce. Hello, hello. Rhiannon, I got our intro wrong for the Wednesday yet, but this is definitely the Friday episode where our corner is brand and business. Campaigns, career stories, all the things. And I am so excited to talk about this episode.

0:50Before we get into the episode, can I tell you something that was not on my bingo card this week? Pray do tell. So Sheehan acquiring Everlane. Did you see this? It was a hard one to miss. I had to fact check when I saw this pop up in my Instagram feed because I actually thought it was a joke. I was gobsmacked. I was so gobsmacked. And for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, on May 17th, Park News reported that Chinese fast fashion giant Sheehan is acquiring a D2C fashion brand Everlane for$100 million. Why we are gobsmacked by this is because you couldn't have two businesses that allegedly operate on two completely different ends of the sustainability spectrum.

1:32Everlane made a name for itself as a sustainably focused business. That was part of their brand. That was their DNA. That was very much their shtick in what they were putting out there. On their website, under the sustainability tab, they actually tell us we're on a mission to clean up the industry. It's a movement that we're calling Clean Up Fashion. I mean, we all know what Sheen is known for. Yeah, and if you don't, I guess like it's a celebration of overconsumption because there will be people who are like, oh, I've never sort of seen that or I've only ever been served an ad from them. But this is an algorithm-fuelled brand that thrives on you buying as much as possible, as often as possible, which is the total contrast to everything that Everlane supposedly has stood for and stands for today.

2:15The price point of Shein's items as well, so, so cheap. And it's just buying into this trend cycle. Their sustainability impact on the world is so bad that last year Shein was actually fined 1 million euro for making misleading or emissive environmental claims about its products. So that was by the Italian authorities. And according to The Guardian, this wasn't actually the first time they've been targeted by European regulators and being called out for the fact that they are just deeply unsustainable. I mean, what's so fascinating to me is like, I kind of want to go back to a time where Everlane was in its glory days, because for me, the price that it sold for was a little surprising.

2:48Like it sold for a hundred million USD. Look, and a hundred million dollars shocked me. And I know that that sounds crazy to say that something being sold for a hundred million dollars, you know, isn't a lot of money. But in the world of acquisitions, and you think about the numbers that have been flying around recently, we had Road for a billion USD. We had Touchland hand sanitizer over 800 million USD and this brand's only years old. But why this surprised me was because Evelane was such a big conglomerate. But the reason for only$100 million when I did a little bit of digging was that they're actually $90 million in debt.

3:23And that was tied to basically years-long slump in sales. They had taken out a$25 million Gordon Brothers loan and had$65 million asset-based credit line with another bank. And that came from a great Instagram account called Traded VC. So suddenly the$100 million felt kind of expensive. Yeah. It's also their original formula that they were known for, which is this basics but better model, was being replicated by high street brands. Like you referenced it yourself, like Coz and these other brands were really tapping into that strategy. And it's like when you don't have that point of difference anymore, it's really, really hard to maintain strong sales and build that profit margin up.

4:01I'm really fascinated to get your thoughts on this. Do you think this is Sheehan's play at looking more sustainable or this is Sheehan's play at just buying a massive database that I assume Evelyn have? That's a great question. Okay. I think Sheehan has some major brand rehab that they need to do because, and again, maybe this is subjective because I care about sustainability. I care about natural fibers. I care about that this business is like destroying the fashion industry, but also our planet, right? so I have to put my bias up front or to the front that I don't like Shein and what they're doing to the world I think that brand rehab piece and why I'm bringing that in is that they need to look like they're doing more than just destroying the planet so for me it's like a really weak attempt at trying to be like oh but look at all this good stuff we're doing with this brand whose origins and their whole ethos is in sustainability by design because we acquired them now we are also about this?

4:58Like it's almost like hijacking the sustainability piece. Yeah, I mean, it feels a bit greenwashy to me because we're looking at a brand with$90 million worth of debt. I'm willing to bet that Sheehan's, you know, profit and loss statement isn't an unhealthy one given the volume and the margins that they would be selling at despite the low price points. I just can't see them continuing how Everlane have been manufacturing and producing if it has been at such a loss. And I guess the question that I come back to in all of this is, does the sustainability brand in fashion get to work? Does it get to win?

5:33Or is the win when you just get the paycheck at the end? And you know, I think that's exactly what happens pre dark days. And I know a lot of people were really shocked and affected by this being like, oof, like, is this the future of the fashion industry? Like, is sustainability not going to be something that they can even address? I certainly hope not. Sad. Yeah. Off the back of sadsies, let's go into something a little bit happy rate. Happy! This is one of our favourite pieces of content to consume and today we are going to be talking about Architectural Digest and the series that is Open Door.

6:03Oh I cannot wait to get into this. Okay we're going to get into AD, house tours and all of the things in between but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Have you ever noticed that your skin has a tendency to feel dehydrated by the end of the day? Even if you're religious with your AM and PM routines? This is such a common problem and it turns out our schedule has something to do with it. Think about it, between sweaty workouts, chilly temperatures, the winter sun and our obsession with the heater, our skin goes through a lot, especially when it's exposed to the elements. Thankfully, Bioderma have just released their new HydroBio Hydroactive range, perfect for dehydrated skin.

6:44It's a complete routine of cleansers, a serum and moisturisers that deliver immediate glow and long-lasting hydration thanks to Bioderma's patented Aquagenium Plus technology plus hero ingredients like hyaluronic acid, niacinamide and squalene. Best of all the range is tested in everyday conditions to make sure it provides life-proof hydration. My winter skin personally loves the sound of the micellar-powered hydrating jelly cleanser and the glow-boosting radiance fluid. Through busy days, cold snaps, tough workouts and late nights Bioderma's Hydro HydroBio Hydroactive range has got you. For life-proof hydration, find HydroBio at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers.

7:24Thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. Ray, I'm not usually on the Architectural Digest side of TikTok. See, I am. I'm all over it. I finally landed on the side of TikTok I wanted to be on and I saw Kobe Smulder's house. Did you see this. Yes. Now, for those of you who might be like, that name doesn't ring a bell, you may remember Robin from How I Met Your Mother. An iconic character. She's like one of my favourite all-time TV characters. Do you know what? Facts. Absolute facts. I completely agree. This was so funny to me. I actually became so fascinated with this house.

8:02There were so many videos. I felt like once I landed on one, they kind of kept being served to me. But I then went on to AD to read the article and it was referred to as her Canadian cabin, which I did have a little chuckle about because there wasn't much cabin about it. This is one of my favourite traits of AD when celebrities talk about their houses and they welcome you into their home. They always refer to it. And do you know what? It's not just a celebrity thing. It's a rich people thing. This is my beach house. This is my mountain home. My farm. My farm. There's no like little, there's not like, you know, a chicken pen and some like sheep.

8:35No, no, it's signaling wealth. It's signaling taste, all of those things. This was a pretty spectacular house. Did you see it? It was so, so gorgeous. To set the scene, it's like this beautiful, it is kind of giving like a mountain home estate. The backdrop is like stunning snowy mountains. There's a gorgeous lake and it's got like that big sort of timber look, like a house that you think would be in the mountains. But then you go inside. The detail of every room is insane. One of my favorite features are actually all of the different types of wallpaper that she has in each space. Weirdly, one of my favorite spaces in her house is her pantry.

9:14It's like this beautiful walk-in pantry. The wallpaper at the back, it's got this sort of carnival vibe to it. And then she's got just classic, old school, very millennial-coded, might I add, mason jars. And she's got all her lollies and different little treats and stuff in there. She's got this gorgeous, really warm green, and it's contrasted with this timber and it just looks so chic and so welcoming. Like I would get locked into that pantry. Yeah. I mean, this house was probably one of the most beautiful homes I've ever seen. It very much feels like a display of personality, which I loved. We know not every AD like, welcome to my home tour is like giving personality.

9:49But what I loved is that she mentioned in the article how much she loved, you know, vintage and that sort of whimsical nature. It's not really a surprise to me that this video has gone viral. It's not surprising to me at all because I think there are so many different personalities that you see within each room and they all sing harmoniously together so well. I love the medals that she's used and the different stones and tiles and textures that she's played with. No two rooms look the same and I think often you know we get these AD2 as well like it's very much you know that bathroom's just another variation of that bathroom that's another variation of that bathroom.

10:23These all feel really contrasting. Like it is very clear she's got taste and who she's worked with is pretty phenomenal. And she was saying she's been pretty obsessed with architecture since she was a little girl. She said her childhood best friend was actually the daughter of architect Elizabeth McKenzie. And that she always dreamed that if she built her own home, she would do it with Elizabeth. This is what makes Architectural Digest different though, because the storytelling piece is so important. And I also think we're so used to AD features like open doors going viral when the celebrity is really big.

10:56Like, yes, she's a household name in TV, but she's not someone who's like dropping into my feet all the time like the Kardashians or the Jennas are. And I do think your point around taste is also what's made this a viral moment. I'm really glad you brought up taste because that's why I actually want to talk about Architectural Digest today, because I want to talk about that intersection and relationship between celebrity, what makes taste and how Architectural Digest can actually be used as a vehicle to signal something to us as the audience. There's so, so, so many little nooks and crannies we can get into.

11:28And here we are talking about Kobe Smulders. I didn't think we'd be talking about her in this episode. It just goes to show though how taste and home have such a direct correlation. But it's also how powerful Architectural Digest can be at pushing a celebrity back into the zeitgeist and making them relevant. I could not tell you the last time I was talking about Coby Smulders. It was when I was watching How I Met Your Mother. Literally. But what I can tell you is I think her house is fucking cool. I really enjoyed looking at it and I want to see more and now she's on my radar. Why do you think homes are like that step above YouTube channels, TikToks, like Instagram posts?

12:05Like we've never had more access. It's a level of intimacy. When you open your home to someone, what you're saying is welcome to my inner sanctum. You think about that in the context of like when you invite your friends over and you have a dinner party, like that is the most intimate setting that you are wanting to connect with someone. So by extension, as a consumer, I feel like I'm being welcomed into this home and they're opening the door quite literally. And they're saying, hey, AD and the rest of you, 48 million of you, welcome to my home. And the details that they focus on in these series are very, very calculated, but they are very, very personal.

12:40So this formula that they've been able to create kind of brings this level of intimacy, but then it's also this level of wealth as well that I think people are also interested in. And that intersection is like what people care about. It's like the perfect formula. Yeah. I do find it fascinating though, because don't you think it's evolved outside of like having the most expensive stone in your kitchen or having like this$60 ,000 couch and it's more like this cool factor. Now it's kind of like if you saw someone's outfit, right? And you complimented them on the street and you're like, I love your jacket.

13:10There's like plus 10 aura points for saying it was like$6 thrifted in Paris or that you got it at swap rather than going, oh, it's new season on high street in Armadale. Sorry, this is really Melbourne centric. Sydney lists is the equivalent of Pato. You know, it's like there's something kind of, I feel like when they're in these home tours and they're spotlighting like, oh, like I got this vase in like this tiny little market in Paris. That's a terrible American accent. We know that I fall in these traps. There's something that makes them appear more interesting or tasteful than if they're just like, yeah, I had an interior stylist that helped me pull this all together and it's all brand new and straight from the showroom.

13:50Let's address the taste thing because this is going to come up a lot in this episode. Gone are the days of the MTV cribs, the glitz, the glam. It's all about just seeing. This is like, we want the narrative. We want the storytelling. Celebrities want to position themselves as tastemakers with Architectural Digest and this is the platform for them to do it. Yeah I mean I would be very surprised to find a celebrity in the US right now who is not telling their publicist they want an AD piece because it does something for them. The interesting thing about taste though is like essentially what we're getting to at the end is the same thing with AD versus MTV Cribs.

14:29Like I love that you've referenced this. What a throwback. Like, hey, MTV, welcome to my crib. Ultimately, they're opening the door and inviting you into a tour of their home. What they're spotlighting and how they're spotlighting it is the only real difference here because we are still getting a peek. What do you think makes AD feel so tasteful versus something like MTV Cribs that felt pretty tacky? Well, it was tacky because they also told you the price of things at the bottom when they would like zoom in and feature something. Yeah, literally sound effects and all. So great, great user experience as a viewer, I will admit.

15:01So I tip my hat to MTV Cribs. But the difference with Architectural Digest is that first and foremost, what they put out there from a messaging point of view is that editorial integrity is very important to them for this series. You cannot pay to play as a celebrity for Architectural Digest. So already there is an establishment of we cannot be bought. Therefore, we are going after the celebrities who we genuinely believe, don't just have the nice things that cost a lot of money and can afford these things. We actually believe that they have a level of curation, a level of, it's almost like a je ne sais quoi or they have the eye.

15:36They've got the it factor. They've got the it factor and that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to position the celebrities as they're not just celebrities, they're tastemakers. Can I ask you a question then? Because what fascinates me is that very rarely have any of them designed these homes or shopped any of it. Like, it's fascinating to me. It's like when people go, oh, she's the best dressed celebrity or like her taste is impeccable. Well, it might be, but she's also got a full time stylist whose taste is impeccable, helping inform her impeccable taste. You know what I mean? It's kind of like it comes from the top of the ladder.

16:08Well, this is where the brand piece comes in and the, you know, the image that they're trying to convey. I think they're trying to convey themselves as tastemakers. But the reality of it is I see this as borrowed taste because we know there are a list of industry experts that are supporting them in styling, designing, building their homes. You know, when they open the series, so I'll use Kendall Jenner as an example, they will make a direct reference to the team. And when I say team, either the interior designer or the architect that they're working with on that, they will only have an initial intro where they would feature that person.

16:41And then maybe sporadically, they will reference them throughout the episode. However, the positioning of it throughout the entire episode is always, I picked this. This piece really resonated with me. I, I, I, me, me, me. And I get that because no offense, if I'm a general consumer, I don't really care about the person behind the scenes because they're not what's sticky. That's not why 48 million people are watching this video. And I know that's a shitty thing to say. No. But that is the star power is with the celebrity. Yeah I'm really glad you referenced it right and Kendall Denner I feel like it's going to get brought up a lot but I I can't help but feel like there was an algorithm takeover of the Montana house her most recent AD sort of coverage that was like she has such great taste and she's you know such a tastemaker and you know this world and I always knew she was the coolest Kardashian-Jenner.

17:30I don't know there was like this thing that suddenly her taste was like so prolific and then we were talking about her fashion in adjacency to that as well. Yeah. Kendall Jenner is a really good example because she's actually done a few AD features. I believe she's done three in total. Her first ever one being in 2020, and this was in bang smack COVID. And even then, when I would say the climate was pretty rough in terms of like internet sentiment and how particularly like showing off your wealth was received, that initial feature did do quite well. And majority of people were like quite surprised.

18:01There is this element of surprise where people go, huh, I didn't think she would have as much taste or I didn't think she'd be so eclectic or wow her home actually looks like a home not a house. I mean probably a good comparison point of that is that people might have been expecting like a Kim Kardashian Kanye West style home where it was like no one looked like they lived there taps weren't visible you know like it's such a contrast to I guess the world we've been introduced through her siblings. Yeah but it's so deliberate and it's so intentional and someone like Kendall as well, obviously she would have sat down with her team and been like, what is the narrative we're trying to tell here?

18:37Like, how do we want people to be perceived? And I think with Kendall, one thing I would say, even birdseying it outside of Architectural Digest and that world, how she likes to position herself on social media and how she shows up in the press is very much like, I'm a horse girl. I'm very relatable. I'm always with my friends. Like downtime is very important to me. And that is like a consistent and common thread throughout any feature that she does. And in her Architectural Digest feature, and you know, the fact that she's calling it her mountain home, by design, that is deeply out of touch and feels very unattainable.

19:08However, you then step into this place and it has a sense of warmth and has a sense of connection that is honestly quite impressive. And she always, always, always referenced her friends and this being a sanctuary and a place where she can connect. And that is very deliberate. And I think it's worked wonders for her because it's made her feel more relatable, but it's also, it's almost like separated her from her siblings. It's interesting for me at this point around relatability, because I think you said it so well when you were like my mountain home, like it's giving, oh, the farm and the beach house, you know, it's like every rich kid that like someone's got one friend that's like just talking about six different properties.

19:44The subtle signals of wealth. the not so subtle signals of wealth. But I think on this one, like why I'm so intrigued by this is that you've used the word relatability in relation to something that is such a not so silent signal of wealth. Why do you think even in that example of that peak COVID era, we're so comfortable with such, I'm going to call them obnoxious displays of luxury because they are like, even if the home does feel warm and comfortable and inviting, like we're still ultimately talking about 20, 30,$40 million homes. I see it as the adult version of show and tell. Like this is literally what we did as children, but there's like a more adult version.

20:24It's also this interesting intersection of it feels really out of touch and it feels like so unattainable, but then it's also aspirational. I watched these videos and I think, fuck, this is sick. I want this. Like there is a fire in my belly that's like work harder like work harder I think Emma Chamberlain's a really good example of a celebrity that in my opinion probably her video shouldn't have landed it had all the things for the formula to make it like really feel unattainable and I think it has a lot to do with timing so Emma Chamberlain's Architectural Digest video dropped in goodness I'm going to say almost in the thick of COVID as well.

21:02So similar to Kendall Jenner. She's born in 2001. She's very young. So by design, you would assume a young person, someone her age and her audience who are also really young should find it, you know, pretty on the nose that like home ownership has become something that she has and is accessible. But then also you put that on the scale of like, she's owning this mega mansion in LA. She's walking through it. And it's like these incredible interiors, that should feel out of touch to young people. But instead, it creates this fantasy and this idea that they maybe could aspire to have something similar to Emma Chamberlain because she is so close in age to them.

21:40I don't know. Does that make sense? It's like celebrities. They're just like us. Yeah, I do. I do think the age thing is interesting. And I think maybe it's this idea that because they've created these worlds and sanctums and it feels like you're being allowed in, you're like given permission, that there is an element of aspiration that doesn't feel so far away because they suddenly don't feel so far away. Like the access to them almost enables that aspiration. Does that make sense? Yeah, I do think there are some situations though where it doesn't work. Said. For those of you who don't know, there is an Architectural Digest example that has been absolutely rinsed, which is the DJ Z's.

22:21And this, to be honest, it worked for Architectural Digest because it has over 48 million views. So even the shit ones technically work when you look at the numbers. It's just that the sentiment online was that this was one of the worst home tours that they had seen. The backlash was mainly centered around one, why is he getting a home? Because by all accounts, they didn't really classify him as worthy. And that's an interesting piece to me. Architectural Digest is so high value to a consumer in terms of being a prestige publication is that even a celebrity is not worthy to be featured in Architectural Digest.

22:56So in this video, they take him around his home. It's very clinical. It's very just not a lot going on. It was getting bachelor pad. Batchy pad. Batchy pad. I'm not talking like it's chic and minimal Christian Grey's pad. I'm talking like there was a custom Skittle machine, like a Lego wall. It was like all the things he maybe dreamt about having in his childhood, he was like, I've got adult money. I can do adult things now. Honestly, it was what I expected a DJ's house to look like. It was giving I don't live here for six months of the year. The other six I'm doing residency in Vegas or I'm in Ibiza.

23:29So yeah, it was also giving the fellas are going to love this. But honestly, also like it's A to D lister of celebrity. It really does matter a lot how people perceive that celebrity or where they are in the zeitgeist at that time. All right, Re, I want to deepen why it works so well for celebrity brands and can be a little bit of like a make or break for personal brand. But let's get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. Around about now, our skin starts to feel the effects of the changing weather. Suddenly, it's a little dull, a little dry, and our skincare just isn't cutting it anymore.

24:03If you can relate, you should try Bioderma's new HydroBio Hydroactive range. Formulated with With hydration-boosting ingredients, the range of cleansers, a serum and moisturisers deliver immediate glow and long-lasting hydration, even through temperature changes, UV exposure, exercise and stress. For life-proof hydration, find Bioderma's new HydroBio HydroActive range at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. Thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. The reason why this is good for celebrity brand is because it's the perfect amalgamation of clout and like PR for celebs.