Does Australia have an ambition problem?

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0:21This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan-Thorpe and drumroll please because today, my co-hosts are Joanna Fleming and Annika Doshi-Smith. The band is back together. She has returned from the longest you're approvable time. The prodigal son is back. It was honestly too long. Like, I sound like a spoiled brat, but I was just, like, so ready to get back here. And, like, I just love Australia. Like, I love Melbourne. Melbourne is the best place in the world. I love that you love Melbourne. I love it. Well, sorry, those listening in Sydney, but she said what she said.

0:59I said what I said and I mean it. What was your favourite part about your trip? I loved eating. And I loved eating in Talmina. Like, very White Lotus vibes, but just such a cool city. We weren't going to go there. and then so many people were like, no, you need to go visit. Have the best time. And I had the pistachio cake of my dreams. Like I literally dream about this pistachio cake. It's the best thing ever. I actually imported some pistachio cream, so I'll try to replicate it. Wow. I'll make it for you guys. You imported it. You imported it. Yeah. Like I bought all things pistachio. So Tarmina and No One for pistachios, and they do like the beautiful like pistachio pasta and a pesto.

1:36Oh, yum. Everything. Like I'm addicted. Everything was amazing. We had the best time. And we are chugging along, well chugging, literally chugging, chugging along while I'm now 23 weeks. And we have little miss just squirming around in my tummy. So apologies if there's any weird movements from me. I feel her, like all the feels. Really? Yeah. I'm obsessed with the maternity fits. Like I knew they'd be good, but they've like exceeded expectation. Oh, you're very kind. I think it's about to get harder. But actually I've had a lot of people reach out wanting to know more on the like maternity fit front.

2:08and I refuse to wear maternity labels, but I would love anyone to actually DM me or DM the pod if they have maternity bra recommendations because the girls, we've heard all about Arnica's nipples off mic, which we won't share on mic. And we'll save you. I mean, if you want to know, I will tell you, but like the changes, the changes. Maybe that's like a personal reel you can give to your audience because I don't know that my ears have stopped pleading yet, but I love that for you. So, yeah, it's safe to say you're not in the itty-bitty titty community anymore. No, we've upgraded to juicy, juicy mangoes.

2:42Yeah. I mean, sad to see you go, but loved having you while we did. Look, we'll be back. We'll be back. All right. Well, I'm actually sitting in Jo's seat today because Annika's been a little bit sick and we're keeping strong social distancing before this wedding. And I am, I've really taken a bullet for the two of us. I'm just going to wear it. So it only feels right that I say, what are we swapping in today? And you know what, Jo? Because you've had to move chairs, why don't you go first? Well, I feel like I should tell you what's coming up on the episode before I jump into the swap. I got all confused.

3:12You did. All right. Well, today we are covering the Dua Lipa and Augustina Spader collab, whether Australia has an ambition problem and the rise of the wedding camcorder, which is very fitting given that we're not long out from my own wedding. But first, let's get into the swap. Annika, you're going to have to go first. I know. That just threw me. You're staring at Mads. I'm staring at you. Who's doing it? It's my role. This is my time to shine. I have to go first. Okay, so I actually wanted to swap in today the Huda Beauty Contour Lip Stain because it's literally that good. But Zara bit me to it and she swapped it in last week.

3:44So guys, if you haven't got it yet, please add to cut because it's phenomenal. Honestly, I'm obsessed with Jo's lip blushing. And I feel like it kind of replicates that because it's smudge proof and does not move. But I will give you another one. And this is kind of like a three for one, I would say. But if you are not following Coco Shiffer, please give her a follow on Instagram because she is iconic. she is a New York based celebrity stylist and she's really well known for her capsule wardrobes so she did a reel on Monday morning love that I just said a reel because Jo always says a reel means that it's dead or something once it's dead on TikTok it's over and I'm like no it's not reels are like I don't know my Roman Empire at this point but anyway on Monday morning she posted a video saying three things that will instantly cheapen an outfit and so no shade to anyone who does do these things but if you want to instantly elevate please take the feedback on board because I really agree.

4:36So the first one was wrinkles. Steaming an outfit will instantly elevate any look. So especially white tees. And I know we all wear white tees and just like baby tees, cute little tees all the time here. But don't you agree? Like instantly steaming it just makes you look so much more crisp. A hundred percent. You should never try on a dress that you want to wear to an event with crinkles in it. Because it looks like a completely different outfit. Yeah, and imagine if someone showed up to your wedding in an unsteamed garment. Well, we might have that case in two weeks, of which you are forgiven.

5:11It will be okay. I'll be on steaming patrol, kiddo. Number two, now too many accessories as well, she said, can be too much. She gave the reference of wearing like gold, silver, different shades of golds. And she said, stick to one statement and think less is more. So she had a really simple outfit on, really beautiful, like, chain necklace. No, you're very, like, you're really killing the vibe, I think. Everything's tonal. All the silvers are matching. We've got our bling. Love it. Okay, thanks. So, yeah, Coco would agree. But then she also said logo mania. She actually called this logo salad, which made me laugh.

5:50And she said focus on one logo or none at all. And in her look, she had, like, the Gucci bag, muu-mu top. I'm like, we get it. You love your labels. But let's pull it back a little. and it just instantly refined it to one logo and it was very chic. Yeah. I love all those tips. Yeah, me too. I love her. Please follow her if you don't already. I will. I'm going to look her up after this. Mads? Do you know what, Jo? I'm like reverse swapping something you've swapped in. Oh! So it took me a very long time to buy this because it was pricey. Yeah. But the Osmosis Rescue and Calm. Oh, she's joined the club finally.

6:28I have. And do you know what? I really struggle buying skincare because, as we know, I worked at Mecca for a long time. I got 40 % off. So just being transparent, paying retail price for skincare kind of hurts. Yeah. It hurts. So went to my skin therapist, the beautiful Angelina at Skin Angel. Shout out to her because I've literally been going there since I was, I got a voucher, I think, when I was 22. So that's like two years ago now. Kidding. That is eight years for those playing at home. That math is that I am 30. You had recommended Rescue to me. Yeah. Which I had bought. but she also recommended Calm.

7:01I recommend Calm flat out. And I really do have to say it's been a long time since I've said I've seen a significant difference in my skin, but I would really say particularly those pesky hormonal breakouts. Yeah. I'm willing to make sacrifices elsewhere, but those two, a couple of other things I've, you know, but we do a swap every week, so I'll save those ones. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, we're also in the midst of Black Friday, so I know they're on sale at a couple of places. They very rarely go on sale. Yeah. I don't know if they're marked down yet. I've been telling my clients, keep an eye on a door.

7:35Should I live Google? Yeah, do a live Google. And while you're Googling, Jojo, do you know this is pregnancy safe? No, because it's a retinol. Yeah. Rescue you can. Okay. But calm you can't. Calm I can't. Okay. So maybe I'll look into the rescue. Yes. Because the hormones. The rescue is nice. Okay. Anti-inflammatory. Oh, I love that. So while we're playing the elevator music, doot, doot, doot, doot. It's on sale at Skin Social. I've never heard of that. Who have 15 % off orders over$15. Wonderful. Jo, what is your swap? Mine is actually some underwear. So I was sent some PR recently of these undies that it was for an event and then they were like, I didn't go to the event, but they sent them to my house anyway.

8:18And I got them, tried them, loved them, purchased another three pairs. And that is a good PR send out. That is a successful PR exercise when you get me on board as a customer. Can I say this is like just not to interrupt because I want to hear about these knickers. You know how much I love fruit underwear. But I'm so sick of people being like influencers don't even buy anything. I'm like it is a great conversion tool when used well. Yeah, 100 % because I'm an actual customer of this brand. So they sent me their Active G. Now you know how I feel about G-strings. Yeah, you're not into them. these are probably the most comfortable g-strings I've ever worn.

8:59They've got this like padding through the gusset and it's really thin and breathable. I'm sorry to use that term, but it's the technical term, but it's a really like thin padding so that you don't get a camel toe in your active wear. But it also feels like slightly absorbent if you get kind of sweaty. Yeah. So it just feels really, yeah, it feels really comfortable to wear. Does not feel like it's riding up my ass and they're seamless so really really comfortable can't see them in anything I bought the extra pairs because I want to wear them all throughout my wedding weekend because I've obviously got a lot of white outfits I'm gonna be wearing and I just feel like I'm gonna be comfortable in them because I'm like supported a thousand percent you're gonna be resonating right now with such a wider community because this speaks to pregnant people oh you've got no idea yeah like I need to like jot down the friend yeah yeah a thousand percent yeah so they're called Posey and the name of the actual G is the Active G.

9:56They do have a different style, but the one that I have with the little padding through it is the Active one. Love her. There is so much I want to buy during these Black Friday sales, but that just got added to the list. Hopefully they're going on sale. Hopefully. Because if they're not, I'm not shopping at the moment. They're not cheap. They're not cheap. I think they're like$38 a pair. Like they are not cheap, but for me, because I tried them and I was like, these are genuinely incredibly comfortable. Okay. I was like, I'm just going to buy them. You do get a discount if you buy a few at a time because I did when I bought three pairs.

10:24All right. Well, that's just incentive to get seven for every day of the week. Yeah. Why be in discomfort at all? Next, we're talking about Dua Lipa and Augustinus Bader's new collab, but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

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11:53So you might have seen on social media last week that Dua Lipa has become the latest celebrity in a very long line of celebrities to launch a skincare line. The range is called Dua, powered by Augustina Spada Science or Bada, depending on what your accent is or who's trained you. barter in my training camp if you've not heard of it before augustinus barter is a luxury skincare brand that is known for being very very expensive the duo range consists of three products that contain tfc5 described by al as the little sister ingredient to augustinus barter's patented tfc8 technology although it's a collab it does have its own website and a bit more of an accessible price point than the brand's core range.

12:38So it's priced between 70 to 138 Australian dollars. And I'm not going to act like that is accessible to everybody. I just mean it's more accessible than the typical range. The reception to this range has been mixed though. Branding expert Camille Moore shared a post to Instagram declaring that this is how you kill a premium beauty brand in one launch. She said, Augustina Sparta built their brand on one story. Dr. Barta's revolutionary regenerative medicine technology justifies paying$285 for the rich cream, the brand's most popular product. When you launch a cheaper version with the same brand name, you destroy the story that justified premium pricing.

13:16What did you guys think of this collab for starters with Dua Lipa? Like, does this feel like a good alignment for you? Oh, I feel so conflicted about this because Because I'm in two camps, right? So I've worked in beauty for a really long time. I totally know exactly what they were trying to do by this. Do I think they nailed it? In short, no. I think who they picked, phenomenal. If Dua Lipa told me to go and buy a new brand of tampon, I would go and buy it. I think she is just the ultimate cool it girl. She just is. And so hot. So hot. Anyway, you know, she's spoken about her skincare regime before.

13:54She's done Vogue videos. because Augustina Sparta, Beta, however we want to go with it, has been featured in those. So there's a brand alignment. Do I think this landed? Not quite. I don't know why it kind of looks like Augustina Sparta's colours reversed. I get what they're trying to do by keeping the synergy. For me, I understand exactly why they did this. Their price point is high. We are in recession style climate in some instances in recession. It is adapt or die at the moment for brands. And I'm not going to sit on here and neg every luxury skincare player. But what I would say is luxury skincare is really struggling right now.

14:32And I have no doubt that they created this diffusion line because they went, we need to diversify the price point of our product and we need to recruit the next generation. And that's hard to do with a$400 rich cream. Yeah. Which by the way, is a fucking excellent product. I agree. Like the range is amazing. I know I've swapped in expensive skincare. I'm now talking about even more expensive skincare. But the Augustina's Bada patented technology is incredible. Augustina's Bada is incredible as a scientist. So yeah, that's my really long-winded way of saying, no, I don't think it landed, but I understand why they did it.

15:08I agree. And I think as well, like do it. Like she just has the superstar power. Like we are drawn to everything she does. And I think aligning yourself with an icon of the moment, you're just going to tap into that customer base and maybe onboard a whole new customer base that you might not already have because they don't have the disposable income. They can't afford to buy into everything Mads has just said. I get that it is confusing though. Why would people invest in the mainline brand? Great segue because Joe will have all of the intel on this. School us, Joe. But the tech is different. I was going to say there's a difference between the TCF 8 that's in the standard range and TCF5, which is in the Dua range.

15:50Right. So what I gather from what I've read about is not, I wouldn't say diluted, but it has a bit of a different focus. So that makes me think that the ingredients aren't as concentrated based on what I understand. So the TCF8 is more intensely corrective and reparative and the TCF5 is more about maintenance. Gotcha. So there is a bit of a difference in the ingredients. I actually had a look at the ingredients of all three products because there is currently only a cleanser, a serum and a moisturizer as part of the range. And I particularly liked the lineup of ingredients in the serum. It's got peptides, it's got antioxidants, it's got essential fatty acids, got lots of soothing anti-inflammatory ingredients.

16:31So it looks like a nice formula. I don't love that they've said it fades post acne marks and dark spots because if that's your focus, I don't feel like this serum will give you the impact on those particular concerns for the price point. Like I'd rather spend that money on a serum that contains things like arbutin or tranexamic acid that are really pigment driven. Slow down those two words so we can write those down. Just really spell that one out for me if you can. I also noticed that they were clever to write on their marine bioretinol, which annoys the shit out of me because there is no retinol in this product.

17:04There is a botanical extract in this or a marine extract in this product called chlorella vulgaris extract. And it's not a bad ingredient. really nice for antioxidant protection. It may offer some barrier support. It is not going to give you the same results as an actual retinoid. So I think they may kind of set themselves up for a little bit of disappointment there because this serum largely is a hydrating and barrier supportive serum. It is not going to give you the rejuvenation results of the retinol product. Jo, I'm really glad you touched on the TCF8 and the TCF5 because what's really clear to me in the languaging is that sort of corrective and reparative is very mature in claim.

17:45I think that would resonate with a mature skin time. And then I think maintenance probably feels like what that late 20s, early 30s, where it's like, my skin's good and I just kind of want to keep it that way. There's not really an issue, but I know I should be looking after it. So maybe it's time to just invest a little bit more. Yeah, I would have to agree with that. But it's not the first time that they have done a diffusion line because we see Augustina Sparta's technology in Victoria Beckham Beauty products. We do. And so it is in a serum that is in the Victoria Beckham line, and it is also in the very hotly debated$180 face drops, which I'm still dying to try.

18:25Should I buy them? I'm tempted. I haven't bought them. I bought the fragrance. I mean, same. I bought the eyeliner, bought the fragrance. I'm like, Victoria Beckham, another one who could sell me tampons. But I think it does go to show where diffusion lines can work and can't because I would argue that the reason the Victoria Beckham diffusion line worked for Augustina Sparta was because it is a different category, but it's kind of like skin infused ingredients within makeup. And, you know, that customer I would imagine is very similar who can afford to buy Victoria Beckham$180 face drops can probably afford to buy a$400 face cream.

18:59I think where the Dua Lipa one comes a little unstuck for me is that we've kind of got this stark contrast of we've had this doctor-led clinical high-performance approach where he is so world-renowned and so acclaimed, you know, as a skin nerd, not to the degree of you, so maybe a baby skin nerd. I'm like, I'm really impressed by him and I have read a lot of his work and I really deeply love the Augustinus Barta range. You know, there's some things I wouldn't be able to afford to play with some things I would save to but where the Dewa thing comes a little unstuck is she is at the end of the day still a pop star to me yeah and so even though you're like the she's the it girl she's the cool girl and I don't she could sell me tampons she's someone who I would buy glitter eyeshadows from and I would buy mascara and I'd maybe buy like a really cool t-shirt line she did yeah I don't know she's my skin girly see I would look at her and go yes she's hot she's amazing love her don't associate her with skin she loves a Siggy, she loves a suntan.

19:57That is not a skincare girly. Yeah. And where Hayley Bieber, if we look at Roe, did a really good job is that during COVID, you know, some of our listeners may remember, she was doing lives with Dr. Barbara Sturm. She was doing facials on herself. She was doing facials on Justin Bieber. She was breaking down ingredients. She was talking to dermatologists. She very much positioned herself as someone who was very passionate and interested in skincare. And I think that is the example of where a celebrity line works because she grounded herself in learning about skincare and clean girl aesthetic and keeping it super simple, which I think are all of the things if you put road down on paper, they would stand for.

20:39It's interesting, though, we were chatting about it off mic, how fashion diffusion lines can work so well. And a lot of luxury fashion brands will do diffusion lines. You've got the likes of Max Mara who have a diffusion line. you have Valentino who have a diffusion line more locally at home we've got Camilla and Mark who do CNM by Camilla and Mark why do you both feel that it doesn't work for skincare but it works for fashion I think in fashion as well it's like that same DNA like if we look at Camilla and Mark and CNM you're looking at the quality the craft the price point the price point is always going to be for me one of the biggest drivers because there was a hot moment like when those CNM teas were everywhere and people wanted to buy into the brand that sometimes they couldn't necessarily afford but this was an easy way to literally stamp your mark and be like I belong to that community yeah and I think it always translates in fashion because tees are always going to be popular you can easily buy into those entry-level price points but just going back to what you were saying before is such a beauty novice who didn't know the difference between the different formulas when I look at the price point alone and I'm like oh do is using it okay I'll buy it because we all know like I'll buy anything but it's interesting once like we dive into it more and I hear both of your perspectives I'm like that is so true the ploy of marketing here wow it got me but then does it make sense did this land maybe it didn't now I'm questioning my thoughts I mean I'm an informed consumer I've worked in beauty I I know skincare not to the degree of joe but I know it well enough I still went on the site and looked at the range I still like you thought the serum sounds pretty good.

22:18Yeah. I'm informed enough to not spend that kind of money on a cleanser. Yeah. But for a serum, I was like, I quite like the ingredients. I would use it. I trust Augustina Sparta as a manufacturer of skincare. I think they produce really beautiful products. I don't think that they could put out, whether they've nailed the marketing is one thing, but I don't think they could put out a formula that wasn't great. Yeah. Yeah. They couldn't afford to. No. Yeah. It would ruin their reputation. I think everyone will say the products are beautiful. Yeah. The cleanse is really nice, the serum's gorgeous, that the moisturiser's stunning.

22:50But, yeah, at the end of the day, is it the same thing as the original line? No, it's technically not. But are you still going to see the benefits of really nice skincare? Yeah, probably. Next we're going to talk about whether Australia has an ambition problem, but that will be after a word from today's sponsor. Picture it. You're running late for a friend's birthday, but you need to stop and grab a bottle of wine. Next minute, you've wasted 20 minutes perusing the aisles and attempting to choose something she'll like. Our friends at Dan Murphy's are here to help by guiding us on what's new, what's trending, and what everyone else is loving when it comes to drinks.

23:28Download the Dan Murphy's app to stay inspired or ask in store. And remember to choose to drink wise. Thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode as stylish possible. Okay, this next headline, And I feel like I could spend an entire episode on this. As soon as I saw this article, it went straight into our Slack with a very strong comment from me, we must cover this next week. But it's a story that you've likely heard, a tale as old as time. A talented Australian founder, a creative or an entrepreneur relocates to a big city like London or New York in order to, I put in my little quotation marks, make it.

24:07So our best talent relocating overseas has become so commonplace that we've actually started coining it brain drain. Like what a sad, sad name. Isn't it depressing? Yeah. It's terribly depressing. Makes me scared for our future. But an article published last week on Rolodex Media's substack titled Make Australia Ambitious Again did a deep dive on the way Australian ambition is outgrowing Australia itself. I cannot recommend that you go and read this enough. I've read this six times. That's how much I just resonated with so much of it. But it really honed in on the fact that, you know, we're forcing some of our best talent to relocate to these global cities in order to make it, so to speak.

24:53Now, up top, I do want to flag that we obviously know relocating by choice is a major place of privilege. It's an expensive process. It's a timely process. And it is by no means accessible to anyone and everyone. Plus, there are a copious amount of people worldwide displaced and relocating through no choice of their own. So I think we just want to acknowledge the privilege of the conversation we're having and we're about to have. But back to the article, the writer Mufaro Mutawemba from Sydney breaks down the reasons why Australia isn't able to retain some of its best talent. She writes that retaining talent isn't about begging people to stay.

25:34It's about making staying make sense. That requires rethinking the systems we've long accepted as fixed, from how we fund innovation to how we treat culture to how we talk about success. Now, if you haven't gathered by the fact I've read this six times, this clearly resonated with me, but it's not about me right now. Jo, did this resonate with you? I really loved this article for the fact that it presented the facts, but then also provided a solution to the problem. I loved that. It wasn't just like, here's all the problems. I'll leave that with you. It was, here is what we're proposing is a solution to this problem.