Everything you need to know about K-beauty

24:09Is there a Western alternative to snail mucin? What would it kind of be in your regular beauty routine? I would say you'd be looking at ingredients like hyaluronic acid and glycerin. Okay, I do that. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So it's just something that I don't feel you necessarily need to add to your routine if it's not indicated for your skin type or concerns. Niacinamide is another one, which is oil balancing. It's brightening. It's hydrating. It's barrier supportive. So that's another one that you'll see in a lot of K-beauty products. Centella Asiatica or Sika, which you'll probably see in a lot of products.

24:42Dr. Jart has their Sika pair range, but you will see it in non-Korean beauty as well. You might know La Roche-Posay's Sicaplast B5. So these kinds of brands, if you see Sica, it's going to be Centella Asiatica, which is a really soothing, calming kind of ingredient, has hydrating properties as well. So it's a really nice one that you might find in essences and toners and things like that. I love Sicaplast. Really great for barrier function too. Green tea has antioxidant properties and anti-inflammatory properties. You'll find that in a lot of K-Beauty products as well. Laneige have a really nice green tea moisturizer that I really like.

25:18And rice extract or rice bran water is another one that you might see thrown around quite a bit. Beauty of Josian have a rice mask that's very popular. Yeah. I'm From have a rice mask as well, I think, and maybe a moisturizer in their range too. So that has brightening and hydrating properties as well. But there's some quite common ingredients that you'll find in K-Beauty products. The product like formats I want to touch on because they look a little bit different sometimes or they have different wording to what we would normally use in like, you know, a clinical range that you might get from your local skin clinic.

25:51Okay. You'll see a lot of cleansing balms and oils, which you would use as part of your first cleanse. So you would use a cleansing oil or balm on a dry face with dry hands. Massage that in, jump in the shower, use your next cleanser, which would be a gel, a foaming cleanser, a cream cleanser, whatever's suited to your skin type. If you have a dry skin, you're more likely to go down the cream or milky cleanser route. If you have an oily skin, you're more likely to go down the gel or foaming route. So that would be your second cleanse. Then you'd be looking to apply things like toners or essences.

26:21You might do both. So they're very like viscous kind of products and you would potentially pat them into the skin or apply with a cotton round. Depends how you like to apply or the thickness of the product. It will vary. Some of those might be exfoliating, which is a really important thing to remember. And I think this is where a lot of people can go wrong, is not understanding the ingredients that are in these products that they're purchasing. And so they end up doubling up on products or ingredients when they shouldn't be using that too frequently in their routine. For example, like our AHAs and BHAs, you might have that in another product that you use and you don't realize that you're layering it with something else.

26:57So that might have exfoliating properties, but a lot of the time that's about hydrating the skin, restoring the pH of the skin as well, so that your other products being put on top, nice and complementary to the skin, maybe absorb a little bit better as well. So then you do your serums and ampoules after that. Ampoules are like a serum. They're just concentrated with active ingredients, still quite a lightweight texture. Okay. So you'd blend that in over the top of a toner or an essence and then finish with your moisturizer. Do you use an essence personally? Because I've always wondered about essences and like whether I should be using one.

27:30Do you use one? And yeah, why, why not? I use a toner, which has more of an essence texture. I would say it's a little bit thicker. Okay. I use the TBH rebound toner, which has thicker in it. Oh, I've seen you talk about this online. Oh, the rebound serum you've probably heard me talk about. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So the rebound toner, well, I think it's, I think they say it's a toner. It's just a really thin kind of texture. And I just put that down before my serums and I'll often use some kind of face spray as well. So like Tower 28 or at the moment I've got Zoe Skin Health. So I'll often do like a mist underneath too.

28:08But I find that's an unnecessary step for someone that wants a simpler skincare routine. It does not have to be 10 steps. Don't get convinced by this trend that you have to have a complex routine because you don't. Lisa's bitter sometimes. Yeah, it is. It honestly is. And so many people are confused when I cut so much stuff out of their routines. And it's often the ones that have just gone ham on the K-beauty. And I'm like, we've got so many double ups here. It's not even funny. Like you are wasting a hundred bucks here. Like we've got to get rid of some of this stuff and we need to replace it with this because we just had too many things.

28:41We need to refine this down there. Oh, but I thought I need, you don't need it. Let's keep it as simple as possible. Target your concerns and, you know, try and get you somewhere with your skincare routine instead of you wondering whether you're doing the right thing or not. Now, forgive me, Jo, but what is an essence? I've been sitting here going, what the hell is an essence? An essence is like a toner. So it would be like a thin kind of texture. It might have hydrating ingredients or exfoliating ingredients in it. Okay. Yeah. I wonder if I use one. I definitely use a toner, but I don't know if I use an essence.

29:08The word is kind of used interchangeably a lot. I didn't know that. Yeah. They're technically separate things, but they're often used interchangeably. Or one would be used instead of the other, for example. If you had to recommend like out of these six products, one that is you feel like has the most impact on people's skin. Obviously, it would vary a lot, I guess, depending on skin type. But like, is there one that gives you the most bang for your buck or like one that you really would suggest most people incorporate? In terms of those steps? In terms of, yeah, these different like the cleansing oils, the ampoules, the essences.

29:42If I'm going to get one thing, like what would that be? I would go the cleansing oil or balm. Oh, okay. I love a double cleanse. Yeah. I'm all about the double cleanse. Obviously, it's going to depend because if you bought a serum or ampoule that has a lot of active ingredients in it, that could potentially be very transformative. Yeah. But I really love the ritual of a double cleanse. And I think that can be really helpful for a lot of different skin concerns and skin types as well. So I always recommend a double cleanse for nearly every single one of my clients. Yes. I'm a double cleanser actually.

30:08And it changed my skin. Yeah. Like I used to get a lot of acne and double cleansing really changed the game. Yeah. Yeah. I do really love double cleansing, but some of my favorite brands in the K-Beauty space, I was telling Emma, our social media manager earlier, that some of my favorite products are saved to an LTK because I had so many DMs about it. I had to put them in one place. But some of my favorite K-Beauty brands are Beauty of Josian, CosRx, Laneige, Dr. Jart is another great one as well. Innisfree have some great products too. There's just so many brands out there. It is quite a saturated market now, but it's very readily available, especially for Australians.

30:49Adore Beauty have a massive offering of K-Beauty, which a lot of people might not realise, but a lot of the brands and products I'm recommending there are available. I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So they've got a really good range, but my tips, if you want to start a K-Beauty routine, don't buy everything that you've seen on TikTok, Annika. directed at you. Well noted. So that's my first one is not to buy everything you see on TikTok. It may not be right for you. And this is something that I apply in a lot of areas of the content that I do. You won't see me post my own skincare routines.

31:22Reason for that is because I know people will go out and buy every single thing that I say I use on my own skin. And that always changes because I'm always trialing different products to be able to recommend them. So I I don't share that because I know that there'll be people that do that. And I don't. I just try and limit that as much as possible because I see so many clients that are like, oh, I watched this influencer and I bought everything that she uses. And so I try to limit that as much as possible because it's a bad habit to get in. Everything should be curated for your individual skin type and concerns.

31:54So I really encourage people to understand your skin type and understand your skin concerns. Write them down if you have to. So if you're choosing your skin type, It's going to be dry, oily, combo. You could add sensitive in there and normal. So you could find out what your skin type is. I'm sure if you do a bit of Googling, you'll find out exactly how to identify that. That would be a longer episode if I was to go down that path. That's a good idea for an episode. And then, yeah, we could do that. That would be a consultation, Kate. Yeah, okay. Me trying to get a free consultation. Oh, my God.

32:25Not the first time. The whole internet getting a free consultation. I love it. And then it's identifying your concerns. That might be things like acne. It might be hyperpigmentation. It might be oiliness. It might be excess dryness, dehydration. All of those things would be considered as concerns that you're trying to address with your skincare. So have a really good understanding of what you're trying to address and make sure you read the product descriptions. Okay. So if you're going to look at the product descriptions, you've got dry skin and you're worried about hyperpigmentation, but the product you're looking at is targeted towards an oily, acne-prone skin, that's not you.

32:59We don't need to be buying that product for you. That's not going to be well suited. And that's an unnecessary step in your routine. And also make sure when you're looking for moisturizers and things, you're not buying a water cream, which is what we see in a lot of K-Beauty products is these really lightweight textures. If you've got a really dry skin, you're going to need something that is thicker and richer. So little tips like that is just understanding your skin a little bit more to make those purchases a little bit more tailored. to, you know, obviously your knowledge is only going to extend to a certain degree, but as best you can try and be as informed as possible so that you're not wasting money and you don't need to have 10 steps.

33:35That was very helpful, Jo. I feel like that was exactly what I've been looking for. And there's too many articles and too many explainers online and you never really know who to trust, but obviously we trust you. I could go into a lot more detail, but I just wanted to keep that as like short as possible. It's meant to be like a short explainer, like a cheat sheet. We don't want it to be overwhelming, you know, and now I'm kind of considering an essence, which is something I haven't really considered before. But I'm, yeah. I'm with you on that one. Yeah. Yeah, we'll report back how we go.

34:10So our next story is asking whether we're in a footessons. If you've been consuming fashion content lately, you might have noticed a very interesting trend. feet and more specifically toes seem to be everywhere right now. Annika actually mentioned this in her trend report earlier in the year. As usual, Annika is ahead of the curve. No surprises there. There's a whole host of accessories and footwear that's been released by both high and low fashion brands that accentuates the toes and the feet. Think toe loops, toe rings, toe shoes, and sort of more ambitious designs like Kate's peep toe. Have you guys seen that?

34:46Where there's one toe? Yeah. It's so funny. It's like just the one toe. but it looks very chic, very cool. And then Balenciaga's Zero Shoe. Have you seen that one? Yeah, it almost looks like the memory of a shoe. It's like the sole and like just a little bit on the toe, I think. It's so barely there. Like how does this even hold to your foot? Yeah, I was going to say, how does it hold onto your foot? I am not sure, to be honest. I don't know how ergonomic it is. The New York Times describes it as a barely there sandal that, as the name suggests, is not much of a shoe at all, which is pretty accurate.

35:18fashion writer Liana Satternstein who was interviewed for the New York Times feature about the footessons she thinks that there's a simple reason that the trend is getting this popular she writes nothing is titillating anymore but there's something so sensual about feet from toe cleavage to the curve of an ankle do you guys agree like is our feet and toes are they becoming sexy is that like the final frontier now we've gone so far down the like see-through dresses and you know everything's sort of out there I feel like, yes, if they're good-looking feet. Yeah. That's fair. I have hideous feet.

35:53Me too. I can't get around this. I know. I was looking at this trend and I was like, I've always loved like Margiela and, you know, toe-related like shoes. But looking at some of these trends, I also feel the same way. I'm like, oh, my feet are not my best asset. Yeah. I want to get around a toe ring because it feels very blue crush Y2K. Beachy, girly, even though I'm like pale red-haired so I'll never be a bitch girl. You're out to a barricade. Oh, thank you. That's the best thing ever. I love a toe ring though and I'm really into this like luxe take on toe rings with the like diamonds and the cool sort of elevated toe ring.

36:29But yeah, Annika, I feel like you to me are a toe shoe person. I reckon you'd have really nice feet. I've got bunions, guys. What are we talking about? How can you forget? We've never seen them. I've never seen them. I have. It's because I always show my sexy foot. One foot's cute, the other's so not cute. Oh, okay. I know. You've got a good foot. I've got a good foot. That foot will be on OnlyFans. The other one. Whoa. Actually, I feel like the bunion heavy foot would probably make more money. Yeah, it would. But I've got to say, I think fashion's fetishes with feet are not new. It's something we've been seeing for so long now.

37:03And like you said before, Margiela have just always been ahead of the curve. I think tabbies are forever. And Glenn Martin's debuted his inaugural couture collection last week. and honestly, we saw the latest iteration of Tabby's, which were completely clear. Amazing. They were so insane. And I think something great about accessories as well is you can dip your toe in. I love it. I see what you did there. Quite literally. Any trend. And it can be like a bit more of an accessible way to do it. Like we've even saw Skims. She's just bought out as well, like a barely there slipper. And it's literally like a ballet flat that's completely see-through.

37:40I think it was like$66 USD, around$115 AUD. They sold out straight away. So we are seeing this trend go from like the runways right down to the masses. Even brands like Christopher Esper have been doing like that jelly style flip-flop for so long. We're now seeing them at like bets, so you can get them like the ultimate high-low. I don't think the feet trend is going anywhere. Well, we've been seeing the mesh flats for the last couple of seasons. Yeah, that's been a couple of years or maybe 18 months now that that was really, I guess, more mainstream, not just high fashion. But I was also seeing a lot of sandals coming out as we came towards the end of our summer.

38:17A lot of sandals with like the gold hardware or silver hardware over the toe. Yeah. So I don't know where that started. It probably started with some like high-end fashion house, but then, you know, like obviously our more mainstream brands are bringing it to the masses. Yeah. But I thought that was really cool. I would wear those, but I probably wouldn't go down the path of like a toe ring or a foot chain. I don't want people looking there. Would you wear an anklet, Jo? Um, probably. I can see you wearing a cool, dainty little anklet. Yeah, it'd probably be a really thin chain, like my permanent bracelets.

38:45Like really fine. Like the Sarah and Sebastian sort of, yeah. I'm into an anklet personally. I think for summer I will be getting into anklets. I will be getting around an anklet. And I think as well you can customise them. You can make them so personalised. And I think you can also just utilise a bracelet you already have. So you can really double down on that trend to get the investment. But I definitely think as well, like when we look at fashion now, people are really focusing on head to toe looks. And it's something that we talk about all the time in the showroom with our buyers. So many buyers are looking at investment wear.

39:17So it could be like really beautiful tailoring, really simplistic kind of denim and like cute date night tops. And then footwear is just becoming such a focus. And I think now, like you're saying, Jo, we're seeing so many super cute, simple shoes that have really gorgeous little like jewelry like details on them. and I saw them all over New York when I was there, as well as my flip-flops. But I think it's a really cute way to kind of add personality to an outfit without feeling like you've got to get completely dressed up. Like you could do something really neutral, really simple and add a cute little shoe.

39:48It also reminds me of that wrong shoe theory. Do you guys remember that on TikTok? Oh my gosh, we traced that, didn't we? I feel like we talked about it. Well, we talked about it at some point on the show. Well, you guys talked about it. I did some research on it. But it totally reminds me of that because it's this idea that you can have a very basic, very simplistic outfit and then you have an interesting shoe and that does heaps of the heavy lifting in terms of elevating it, adding interest. And I mean, what's more interesting than wearing like a clear ballet flat with a plain outfit, you know, like that, your whole foot on display.

40:20It's so true because I feel so weird in a flat shoe going somewhere and I notice that other people are wearing heels. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so underdressed. Yeah. It really throws me off. But I could be wearing anything else and not really care, but it's the shoes that throw me off. Yeah, shoes are hugely important. And I think in a cost of living crisis as well, investing in a shoe, you're going to get much more bang for your buck. You can pair it with all these different outfits. So I kind of see it from that perspective as well. Like I'd rather invest in a shoe at the moment than like a couple of fun tops because I can pair that fun, interesting shoe with all these different outfits.

40:53So true. I'm the same. I literally go so heavy on my accessories when it comes to investing in pieces. And it's like those are pieces I think really carefully about before I make the purchase. And I get so much longevity out of them. Like if I wear a really beautiful shoe, sometimes it just finishes my look because I'm always in like baggy things or like all black everything. But fun fact, when I was single, I actually used to judge people, sorry, men, on their feet before looking up. Me too. Like I would look at their shoes and if they had cool shoes, I'd be like, yeah, I'll talk to you. If they didn't, no thanks.

41:24Like James has an elite shoe collection. So that's why we're married. Yeah, he made it. I also did that. Is it a Kiwi thing? It's a Kiwi thing. I think a lot of men in New Zealand wear terrible shoes. Oh, awful. Yeah, sorry to the New Zealand men out there. I'm so sorry to say that. But there's a good handful of them that have really good taste in shoes. Yes. Yeah, exactly. I can't say I ever really focused too much on the shoe, but maybe I should have. You have been cooked for every meal. Yeah, I mean, we have met the man of like, he's so perfect. He's like three men. You like don't care about the shoes.

41:57I don't care. He'd be barefoot. Like whatever. Yeah, I did replace his whole wardrobe though. So there you go. Anyway, in big beauty news, Mecca is opening one of the world's biggest beauty stores, especially for us Melburnians, which is such a treat. So Mecca announced last week that they're opening their biggest retail space yet in August this year. It's a 4 ,000 square meter, three level store that's going to be on Bourke Street. It's going to be Mecca's Melbourne flagship, and it will be one of the largest standalone beauty stores in the entire world, which is wild. It's wild to think that's going to be in Melbourne.

42:31It's actually next level. I know. I cannot wait. Three levels. If you haven't seen the building on socials, go to their socials and have a look at it. The building just looks phenomenal. So the store will stock over 200 of the world's best beauty brands, offer 80 plus services and have more than 300 team members. Obviously not all working at once. It's not 100 people per floor, but it is still a lot of staff members. And what is inside will blow your mind. This list is endless. So there's a Mecca perfumery, a bespoke packaging suite offering engraving and calligraphy services, a beauty atelier where you can get your hair, makeup and nails done, an apothecary with an on-site naturopath and dispensary, an auditorium.

43:17No. It's almost like comical at this point. An auditorium that will serve as an educational space and an advanced clinical skin treatment centre with dermal therapists and cosmetic consultations from qualified registered nurses. There will also be a Mecca cafe and randomly a Mecca newsroom. This is like a beauty bender. Like you don't even need to leave. You can stay there for everything. I'm surprised they didn't put hotel rooms there. I was just thinking that. Yes, like fuck the auditorium off. Let's make that a hotel. Yeah. I mean, the cafe, I'm like, that's kind of, it's you know when you're shopping and you're like really in it sometimes you do need a little you need a little snacky snack or a little drink oh my gosh how cool if they did like era one styles and did like the hayley bieber smoothie and like all the different like beauty smoothies that's such a good point i am now mads today i'm mads yes you're ideating she's brand marketing someone had to well it's obviously a huge move from mecca with the australian financial review in a feature on the store earlier this year, describing it as the beauty company's biggest bet yet.

44:21I would have to agree with all of those services, the size of the store, the amount of staff. I'm going to read a section from that article written by Lauren Sams because it's pretty interesting. The success of such an audacious project when it does eventually open rests on 50 ,000 people coming through the doors every week. Jo Horgan, Mecca's founder and co-CEO, recognises this is a risk. In dreaming up the concept, she sent a team of five on a global mission looking at retail from Nike flagships to small perfumeries. The thinking was to link the world's best products and experiences into the DNA of Mecca's first boutique in South Yarra.

44:56Jo Horgan, who was interviewed for the article, revealed that it's been an incredibly expensive undertaking and that they've failed to stay on budget. She told the AFR, it's not just the store build, it's the human cost of the effort of three years that we've taken to do this. It's not ideal, but it increases the need to make it the most extraordinary beauty experience for customers. it's unlikely to be replicated by anyone in the world ever. Very lofty goal and clearly Mecca has a lot riding on this you know massive mega store's success. Do we think that this is going to end up working out for them?

45:29Are we going to see this you know go down a slippery slope or do we think this is going to be like oh my god this is transformative for the beauty industry and we're going to have people coming from all over the world to see this Mecca store? Yeah it's interesting because to me part of what has always made Mecca stand out is that sort of boutique small feel. I'm a regular at the Carlton Mecca and being in there, it's very like, it's not a huge space and you can always get help from someone and it feels very like, I don't know, like small and curated and I like that about it. So I'm imagining Mecca, you know, scaling up to such a huge scale.

46:06Will they be able to keep that sort of element of this original South Yarrow boutique that they talk about in the article, that's sort of like very attentive and very like personalized. And part of their whole thing is that they give you such attention. Like you feel so special when you're in there. And I think that it's really hard to do that on a bigger level. But honestly, my gut feel as a beauty fanatic is that if anyone can do it in Australia, it's obviously mecca. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? I think what I find so remarkable about this is the fact that in a time where retail is really struggling, as a whole, they are scaling up.

46:43Like so many businesses are downsizing. And I think what I admire about Jo is she's not letting that stop them. She's literally putting that customer-centric ideology first. And I think they're going to be able to do it because she's so committed. Like no cost has been spared. I am just so obsessed with like the diversity of offerings from the services. And even like the Melbourne Collabs, like Flowers Vazette. How cool. Cinebism, like insane. and just seeing like how well thought out this is. Like I did not expect to have the educational piece to this. Like what is the auditorium for? But I'll be sitting there and I'll go there and I'll literally hang out there for the whole weekend.

47:20I feel like it's going to be like the Apple part of those stores. Love that. The education section of the Apple store. It'll be panels. It will be, you know, like Charlotte Tilbury's masterclass. I imagine it will be a space where they can have masterclasses. Yeah. Which is so smart because that masterclass was such a success for them. Yeah. So it makes total sense to then build their own custom space to hold stuff like that. Yeah. I would love to know from you, Jo, as a dermal therapist, reading through that press release, like, can you tell us a bit more about what you think that will look like in the store, the dermal therapy, the registered nurse?

47:53Like, are they going to be doing injectables? What are they going to be doing? Yes. I would love to know. I suspect that's what they are intending to offer. I do think that they have been trialing this in some way in the High Point store because they have, I think what they call mechaesthetica, which is like they do skin treatments there and they sell biologic research. So they actually are able to stock that in that particular store, but I believe only that store. So the tricky thing with bringing skin treatments in and potentially maybe injectables based on that wording. So they said cosmetic consultations with qualified registered nurses, which would indicate that you would be having injectables.

48:31There's a few complexities around that. One being that you still need a doctor to prescribe that medication. So they would still need to be either having a doctor on site or having a doctor available to do a Zoom call with every patient or client that is coming in to have injectables there. There are also very stringent guidelines from the TGA around advertising. And I think that's why that information hasn't been included in the press release. It did seem a little vague. Yeah, because you can't now say things like it's no longer permissible to advertise injectables in certain ways, like even using terms like anti-wrinkle, you can't use before and afters, things like that.

49:06It's really, really tightly regulated now. So I think that's something they might not be able to overtly advertise or suggest that they offer. I think that's why they've said the consultations and then that consultation may lead to treatment with a registered nurse. The other complexity around that is that APRA are tightening their guidelines on advertising around more invasive cosmetic procedures. and that might include things like lasers and skin treatments. So that also might add some complexities to this. But I think if people were interested to go and have those treatments or they want access to these brands, then like they may know about it anyway because they're going to hear through someone that they offer it or they might go in for a consultation.

49:45That's where they can get all of their information and that's fine. But they might be limited in how they can talk about this on their socials and in their email marketing and all of that kind of stuff. Interesting. That's fascinating. Yeah. Would you two go to a place like Mika for something more involved, you know, like injectables or lasers or like things like that? Do you feel like that is somewhere that you'd go? I'm just curious whether that part of it will be, yeah, a draw card for people. I'm still a virgin over here with my face and the only place I'm going is Jo. Yeah. Like whatever she's doing, I'm doing it.

50:19So if they're doing the salmon sperm, maybe I'll go. I've thought about the salmon sperm since you did it. Yeah. I really am an influencer. You really are. Yeah. I mean, I've already got my trusted people that I go to for different things. So I personally wouldn't, but I can understand why people would see the ease in going into somewhere. And look, I don't think it's something that skin clinics are going to agree with. I think they're going to be like, as if you would walk into a Mecca and get the same experience you're going to get walking into a bespoke boutique skin clinic, which might be true, but I do have a bit of faith in MECA's employment process and who would they be hiring to represent them.

50:56I think they're very careful about that and they hire people and they train them quite effectively. So I think that that would be a huge focus for them is to be reputable in that area. They wouldn't want to represent themselves as being inexperienced or like underqualified in that area. I think they'd want the best of the best. Like you've seen it with other services they're offering. They're getting Trophy Wife in to do the now. So like the best in the best. Iconic. Yeah, they're the best of the best in Melbourne in terms of nails. So yeah, I think it's something that if they want to focus on it, they will do the best job that they can at it.

51:28So that makes sense. And I think as well, like this is going to be such a world-class offering. Like it's going to be one of a kind. It really is leading. So I do expect them to go all out. And I think maybe we would trust them in that space because of just like how insane this is actually going to be as a whole. I think the one thing I'm actually interested to see because where the store is, it's literally directly opposite. at David Jones and Maya. So I'm like, are they going to pull out of their concessions there? What is it going to do to their foot traffic and their, you know, performance as department stores overall when it's going to be quite hard to replicate that same in-store experience at the new Mecca compared to in those concessions?

52:03That's such a good point. We'll see, won't we? We will. I didn't even think of that, but that's a really good point. Okay, well, that wraps up a very juicy, beefy episode for you. Yeah, that was great. We had fun with that. Thank you for having me. This week of Stylish. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you very much to you, Annika Joshi-Smith and you, Kate Emma-Burke. Thank you for being here filling in for Mads. It's been a pleasure. And remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ish at shamelessmedia.com.au or you can slide into our DMs over at stylishpod. And we can't forget to thank our audio engineer, Jonathan Last, and the Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt, and senior podcast producer who joined us on the podcast today, Kate Emma-Burke.

52:42We'll be back with you next Wednesday and Mads will be with us. See you then. Bye.

52:51This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.