Finally! People are saying what they actually think!

0:08This episode of Stylish is brought to you by the Devil Wears Prad of you. Miranda, Andy, Emily and Nigel returned to the sleek offices of Runway magazine from April 30, only in cinemas. Hello guys, happy Friday. I'm Rhiannon Joyce, Chief Commercial Officer at Shameless Media, and today I'm joined by our new co-host who is covering for Mads today, Priya McPherson. Hello everybody. For those of you who don't know, Priya is the founder and director of fashion label Sage Avenue and we adore having her on the fortnightly Friday episodes. Thank you, Priya for being here. Hello everybody. I love, love, love being here and happy Friday to you all.

0:46Guys, you know that this is the corner of stylish that focuses more on brand campaigns and career stories. And today we have decided to focus on the brand side of things and explore something that's been on my mind quite a bit. I know your mind Priya and it's coming up a lot in the shameless media office, which is how much Substack has disrupted the media industry. I have a lot to say, as always, and you do too, the gap is in here. Before we get into it, let's jump into word of the week. This week, it's my word. Passing the baton to you, Rhi. Hand it over. I'm ready. Doing my thing that I always do.

1:19I've got two words. Fabulous. Love it. I like to say it in real time. Okay. Two words. I want to talk about brand names. Recently, I read a piece in the cut titled Brand Names Are In Crisis and it was actually a conversation I was having with co-founders of Shameless Media and good friends of mine, Michelle Andrews and Zara McDonald, about how brand names are getting out of control. And it was really interesting because when we were having this conversation, we were reflecting on how hard it is to pronounce certain brand names or digest how this, how do you spell that name? Oh yeah. Battle of mine every time.

1:52When I get a top and I can't pronounce it back, I really struggle. I'm like, why do you do this to me? Well, this is the thing. What is the why behind this being a problem? The cut piece goes deep on this and explains that there are actually some really systemic issues around trademarking the US that is causing this. Apparently, there is a huge backlog in trademarking, but also access to Instagram handles. One brand that was front of mind for me was Sydney Sweeney's brand Siren. How is it spelled? How do you think it would be spelled? S-I-R-E-N. No. So it's S-Y-R-N. Oh my God. I think what was really interesting in this piece is the cut declared that there was almost It's like this wall on the dictionary to score like a very coveted domain name or try and find something that's very unique.

2:34So, yeah, that is like what is consuming my brain right now is how the names are just getting out of control. I absolutely love it and feels very topical because today I'm wearing a brand that I can't pronounce the name of. And the amount of times I've been asked this morning, where is this top from? And I go to spell it because I feel like I can't do it justice if I don't know how to pronounce it. But it's F-O-Y-R-E. How would you pronounce that? F-O-Y-R-E. Foyery? foyer foyer i just go shop f-o-y-r-e okay but i do find it hard i find it hard because i'm like it should be easy to then share with someone who i've met at a coffee shop and be like oh follow them this is their name and then if they're the barista they're gonna have to keep thinking about how i've spelt the name and then how they're gonna actually go to write it in and look for it it also makes you feel like a little embarrassed yes i feel this if i can't pronounce a brand name i immediately seize up and i'm like oh my god this is so embarrassing and it also for some reason might give this indication that I don't actually care about the brand or I'm not, you know, super savvy when it comes to fashion.

3:32But that's not the case. Sometimes it actually is just hard. It's really not. And as you said, it's actually a byproduct of trademark law at Instagram at the moment, which is just frustrating. It's making us look silly, isn't it? It's making it hard for the brand founders, but it's also making us look silly. So yeah, there is some rationale behind that. So read that piece from the cut if you are interested in that, like me. I love it. As I said, guys, we are here today to talk about Substack. It does really feel like Substack is having a moment and really disrupting the media landscape. The reason why I think this conversation is super relevant right now is Substack have actually just hired their first role in Australia.

4:06So this is their first regional hire that will cover Oz and New Zealand. Mumbrella actually reported in December 2025 that the role will primarily focus on building awareness of the Substack brand, but also include hiring a local team, onboarding new writers or influential creators, and I say that in inverted commas, and helping them build successful subscription businesses and vibrant communities on Substack. So that was based off the job advertisement that went up. Beyond the headline, there is a bit more as to why I care about this. And this is very much anchored in being someone who works in the media industry and seeing the democratization of content and how writers have been able to, you know, take control and build their own revenue streams without having to depend on traditional media outlets.

4:51The likes of Vogue, the Age, the AFR, you know, these traditional media outlets who historically have really lent on freelancers and lent on writers to be able to contribute to their content. It feels like those jobs are few and far between. And I actually spoke to Kate, who is our senior podcast producer, who helps us build our research out for these episodes. And Kate is a writer and was speaking to me about how she herself has experienced that the opportunities are few and far between. A lot of those jobs are now being managed in-house and, you know, editors are now being the ones who are responsible for a lot of the writing.

5:25So the actual scope of work has reduced for freelancers, which makes me ask the question, where are these writers now going and how are they creating income for themselves? And that's where I feel like Substack has filled this gap. What's your take on that? As you know, and when we brought up this topic, I'm an avid Substack reader. For journalists at the moment, with their jobs reducing, it allows them a space to be independent journalists. I think it is a marriage that is so perfectly timed. Yeah, it's putting the power in their hands. It's giving them revenue opportunities outside the four walls of traditional media.

5:58I actually spoke to Farrah Stort, who is the head of Substacks internationally. She's based in the UK. She has a huge background in mag. She actually worked in Sydney for a few magazines as well. And Farah actually gave me a quote, talking to the why behind Australia being a primary market that they want to focus on. Farah said this, Australia and New Zealand have a long history of producing some of the world's best writers, creatives and thinkers. So it's only natural that we would make a dedicated push into this market. But we also know that the region has suffered some of the same cultural cuts, especially in publishing, that have also affected the UK and Europe.

6:30So where does talent go when there's no longer an institutional infrastructure to support them? We hope they'll come to Substack and be paid directly by the people who love their work so they can continue that work. I love it. You know what immediately I take from that? A key point is it's a place and it's a passion. It's filled with a passion and they see the value, but they also allow a space for passion. They're being like, okay, we know you've suffered. We can see you. We hear you. let us help you. I'm really glad you brought up the passion piece because for me, Substack is also a place where niche content thrives.

7:01A lot of niche content cannot live on mainstream media outlets. The reality of it is when you're pitching a story, and again, Kate was talking to me about this as someone who has avidly had to pitch for work to different media companies. A lot of the time, the niche content won't make it on the pages. It's the content that will drive clicks. It will drive revenue. So by design, that is to serve a commercial model, not passion. Something that really stood out in my research backs off what you are saying exactly here is before Substack, journalists, creatives, writers were at the mercy of these institutions.

7:33They had to go and get approval. Was it rejected? Was it not? And then, of course, they're thinking about, OK, what will get the most reach? Algorithm. And so Substack is allowing and breeding a space for authentic-led content over algorithm-led content. And we can talk more about that right after a word from today's sponsor. There are a few movies that have defined our generation quite like The Devil Wears Prada. It's inspired countless memes and careers and made so many of us fall head over heels in love with fashion. So when it was announced they were making a sequel almost 20 years later, all we heard was Miranda Priestly's voice saying, everybody wants this.

8:08And we do. The Devil Wears Prada 2 is shaping up to be another culture-defining moment and the social event of the year. The characters, the fashion, the hilarious one-liners. It's got everything we love about the original and so much more. If you're yet to see the trailer, let me set the scene. The film brings together the same cast in their iconic roles from Miranda to Andy, Emily to Nigel, as well as a new crop of characters. Of course, we're returning to the shiny offices of Runway Magazine, but so much has changed. Yep, this is one of those films you need to see on the big screen with your most fun girlfriends.

8:44Luckily, it hits cinemas on April 30 and I cannot wait. My tickets are already booked. A huge thank you to the Devil Wears Brada 2 for making this episode of Stylish possible. So a few weeks ago, we actually asked the Stylish community a few questions around their content consumption on Substack. What was really interesting is that we actually found out that 39 % of you consume content on Substack. So that is less, obviously, that is less than half of the audience. I do think it's slightly lower than what I thought. What did you think of that, Priya? I agree. I would assume that the listeners of Stylish and the wider Shameless Media group would relate really, really well to Substack.

9:24Why do you think that? I just feel as though this podcast and along with all the other podcasts on the Shameless Media group share value, share vulnerability, share consistency and have a similar personal tone. Does that make sense? So each podcast has their own personal tone. I feel like that is exactly perfect for Substack. And so I feel as though the people who listen to us come to us for a specific point of view. And I feel as though they would go to Substack for an in-depth point of view as well. First of all, I love you for saying that. Second of all, we do have newsletters form part of our offering.

9:54I think the average person, well, I know that a lot of our listeners are subscribed and broadly speaking across all of our podcast pillars. A majority of them do have a newsletter arm that we drop weekly. And that's a touch point with our community. I think there is a differentiation between newsletter and Substack. So when we're explicitly asking the community, are you on Substack, they're thinking specifically that. I know a lot of Substack users also have that newsletter drop into inboxes weekly as well. That's not what we do. So we're not on Substack. If we were to ask a broader question, like, are you subscribed to newsletters?

10:29I feel like that number would have been bigger. I think specifically because we've gone with that Substack angle, that's why it's a bit smaller than what you initially thought. Yeah, I find that really interesting. One thing I want to come back to though is it feels like it's a recent habit that people are introducing into their content consumption. We actually asked those who did say that they use Substack how long they've been using it for. 34.8 % said the last one to two years and 20.2 % said a few months. 16.9 % said one year. 15.7 % said two to three years and 6.7 % said three to four and 5.6 % said four to five years.

11:02So when you look at that theme, It means that most recently people were starting to adopt Substack into their content. Historically, there's not that many early adopters. These results ring really true to me. I think that Substack has only just become cool, even though it's been founded for so long. Do you agree? Yes, I do agree. When you deepen the why, I think it's because a lot of the content we consume is not by choice. We are overexposed on social media, particularly TikTok and Instagram, where we are not opting into this. Substack is a place where you can choose to opt into the content. You're choosing to curate the content that you want to read, listen and watch because now they do have video capabilities and there are podcasts that exist in this platform as well.

11:43So, you know, it's not even just a newsletter that you're getting exposed to. I think there is also more of an appetite for people who can afford it to be paying for content because they want to pay for the content. They want to curate it in a way where it's this is what I want to read, see and watch. Yes. And that's the place that they can do it. Yes. On an intellectual level too. Yes. Right. And how you can be more analytical and critical about your perspectives and share it with others. Because as we know, Substack is also a space where you can comment and engage. One thing that I also thought was really interesting and what we did ask the audience as well is what they liked about Substack compared to other platforms.

12:23So the first one that stood out was long form content and you're supporting writers directly. Well, that's interesting because we spoke a lot up top about the democratization for writers. Being in the industry, I feel that quite passionately. I want to support independent writers. I want to make sure that the money that I'm paying for this subscription is going directly to them. Yes, Substack takes 10%, but in comparison to me paying a media conglomerate, it feels good knowing that that is going into this writer's pocket. Pocket. Exactly right. Second one that stood out was, feels like more in-depth analysis.

12:51It gets my brain working. And when I go there, I expect to be challenged, hear new ideas and think more deeply than on other platforms. Okay. I want to stop you there because my take on this is naturally when you pop things behind a paywall and a lot of the content on Substack, you do have to pay for. A lot of writers do offer free content, but by design for you to access this content, you have to pay for it. And the in-depth analysis point is really interesting because I feel that Substack is a place where people can share their thoughts more freely than what they can on social media without feeling like they're going to get backlash.

13:27Yes, actually, when I was researching, I looked up on TikTok and Spotify, because I always like to listen to some podcasts when I'm researching. All of them, and especially the influencers that were speaking about it, were saying, I've never spoken this openly, but I wanted to give it a try. Here's my Substack. And I think exactly what you are saying, it allows people to share more openly and deeply, and you can be challenged by their ideas as well. That's also how the writers are showing up on the platform, though. So I'm a subscriber to Becca Bloom's Substack, and I love it because she's a straight talker, but in her bio, she actually has the tagline using this as a place to say the things I can't say out loud.

14:01If that isn't what Substack is, I don't know what is. Okay. Next one that stood out to us was, it doesn't feel like I'm doom scrolling, but actually giving the pieces I'm reading my full attention like I used to before Instagram and TikTok existed. I feel like Substack is kind of like you're back in the magazine days. I feel like I'm opening a magazine and it's fun and I don't have to doom scroll. Just switching off. I'm reading consciously and intently and I'm looking at the images because on Substack you can pop images, you can add little photos, so you can make it as aesthetic as you want. Substack takes you back to the old magazine days.

14:30It's almost like mood boarding and a way for you to find creativity, build your own identity without feeling the pressure of having to actually contribute as well, which I think happens a lot on social media. I'm going to round out the last one because this sits in the ad category, so I feel like I've got a bit more to say on this. Let's go. One of our listeners wrote, no ads feels like a breath of fresh air and has a wholesomeness that other platforms just don't have. I mean, it goes without saying we are inundated with ads across all platforms. And the reality of it is our attention is so diverted.

14:59I do want to flag though, one thing that I have noticed having subscribed to a few sub stacks over the last 18 months, there are ads on the platform. How the ads show up are very different. A lot of writers use affiliate links as a way for them to generate passive revenue. That's not as obvious as a banner ad or maybe a meta ad that pops up or a TikTok spark ad or even an influencer promoting a product, but the ads are absolutely there. It just feels more passive. It feels more intertwined and natural. It doesn't feel like you're being thrown an ad. And so somebody isn't writing a piece of content where you can tell that it's actually just for an ad.

15:37It still feels really natural and it still feels like you are connecting with the individual, but there is a paid element, an ad element to it. Am I making sense when I say this? You're making sense, but what you're also making me think out loud, and I want to say this because my gripe with that is sometimes I don't think sub stackers are actually transparent about the ads that are embedded into their content. And a couple of times, and maybe this is because I'm in the industry and I'm really, really receptive to ads and I feel like I can tell something's in the ad, even if it doesn't say hashtag ad, or even if it's a piece of content that's promoting, you know, a specific brand, I am quite sceptical.

16:16And sometimes I do think editorial content is influenced by paid partnerships or being invited. Someone's been invited to an event and maybe that's not being disclosed. There seems to be more grace for it on Substack with people who are better at hiding it. Yes. See, I actually disagree. I feel as though it doesn't pop out to me as much as it might for you. You have a very ads focused brain. I don't. And so I feel as though when I'm reading it, I don't feel as though I'm getting screamed ads at. I also think the beauty of it is you can just unsubscribe. You're not just going through a feed and an ad is popping up.

16:52You can consciously choose to stop reading or you can consciously choose to move aside and read another piece that you feel as though will be more aligned to you. Can I ask you a question, though? Because that's really fair. My only thing is we hold brands and media companies into such high standards about disclosure of ads and being advertised to. Where it gets murky for me and where I feel a little bit uncomfortable is that if that disclosure is not happening and you're getting a kickback or you're getting an invite and you're not disclosing that, it does feel like it's influencing your decision to include one brand over another in that content.

17:28I do think that needs to be communicated. And again, maybe that's because we are constantly scrutinized as a media company over the disclosure of our ad features. We go above and beyond to make sure that we are really transparent about what's an ad and what's not, but also our core value is content and community over money. It does start to get a bit murky for me when I can see that there is a level of influence from a relationship that someone might have with a founder or, you know, attending an event on someone's behalf like that's fine to do that and then talk about a brand but I do think there needs to be a little bit of transparency around that my point is really anchored in this affiliates piece not being disclosed but it's also an editorial piece that has been influenced I can't control if a writer wants to disclose that or not at the end of the day but again I think because I am very locked into ads yes I have like a layer of almost skepticism where I will read things and be like, how much is this actually purely editorial?

18:30But also over time that comes with building trust. If you, from the very beginning have been a writer or a creator or someone, you know, even a podcaster who has set the intention that I will always disclose ads or I will always, you know, let you know if something's an affiliate, or I will, you know, acknowledge if I have a relationship with someone and just state, state the obvious and say like, yes, I have a relationship with this person, but by no means is that influencing the conversation we're having right now. I think for me, it's that like say the obvious thing out loud and don't always assume that someone knows that because what it can quickly do is undermine the integrity if something was to come out later.

19:07So for me, it's more so why would you not say it? And I don't think it does actually affect, you know, my relationship with the content that you're creating because the reality of it is I'm consuming your content because I do trust your output. And you respect them more because they're actually sharing it with you and they're being vulnerable. And so, yep, exactly right. You are connecting deeper and it still allows them to be naturally themselves while still including those affiliate links. This is actually a great place to pause because we're going to hear from Zara Wong who's been able to build this from the other side of things.

19:34But let's hear a word from today's sponsor before we get into it. In case you missed it, Mother's Day is fast approaching. It's our opportunity to send love to our mum, a friend that's recently become a mum or any of the mother figures in our life. And when it comes to choosing a thoughtful, stylish and personal gift, nothing comes close to perfume. Maya has the most beautiful selection to choose from. Some of their picks being the new Dior Chador Intense, Good Girl Jasmine Absolute by Carolyn Herrera and the new Marc Jacobs Daisy Wild. Plus, when you purchase a Marc Jacobs 100ml fragrance, you will receive a Marc Jacobs Travel Organizer too.

20:10TNCs do apply. Find Mum's new signature scent this Mother's Day in store and online at Maya. and a huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible. We actually reached out to Zara Wong, who's contributed to Stylish before and runs a successful substack called Screenshot This to hear about her experiences on the platform. Now, her substack is quite fashion, lifestyle, all things in between focused and essentially wanted to know why she decided to prioritise building a presence on this platform. She started really early. She did. I would say she was absolutely an early adopter.

20:41I agree and it would be really interesting to hear from her in these recordings why she did that and where she can see it going. All right, so let's go. I'm pushing play. I think because of the nature of the platform where it's quite intimate, like a newsletter goes into your inbox and you read it and you receive it like, you know, quite an intimate way, I suppose. It means that the reader feels so much closer to you and they're so much more aware, but also they spend a long time with you. And so I can often see many of my readers click on my email multiple times. they're clicking on heaps of links and as someone who worked on the marketing side of things where I ran EDM email campaigns I know what a good open rate looks like and I know what a good click-through rate looks like and what I get on Substack is amazing like it's really phenomenal.

21:30I think too on Instagram it's so quick and ephemeral and you're sort of scrolling whereas the way Substack is being an email newsletter you stay with it for a long time the links are easier to find and they're a lot stickier. I initially started an Instagram series, which was all about my recommendations to read, to eat, to shop during COVID. And while it was doing really well, it was really popular, I was getting so much good feedback about it. It was very difficult for me to direct people via Instagram to a podcast I was listening to or a new fashion brand I was excited about. Whereas on Subsec, you can have that kind of sharing community sense of recommendations made in such a much easier way.

22:09I think what's interesting is understanding that Zara's original journey started on social media. So she said that she's obviously had this platform, this series, and I remember this quite vividly. I followed Zara Wong for a very long time. You know, she was running this series and it was very much like shoppable links. So it felt like more of like that social media version of like a listicle piece of content. And then she's obviously made the decision to broaden that content output of what she wants to share to recommendations, what to watch, listen, which is so valuable. What I find interesting is that Substack is now playing the role of being that central point to connect with her community and share all of these recommendations.

22:50So it's all being housed and funneled into that Substack. And it's in one platform. I actually often think about the Stylish gift guides, and that is a central place to go to when you are in need of buying a present. Now, I know Stylish is an odd substack, but I do find it is very akin to having a substack page where you can go back onto the page and you can find someone's gift guide for your partner, for your mum, for Christmas. And so it is a central point that is really easy to find and navigate and it sticks. It's anchoring all the wrecks. That's what it is, whether it be a gift guide, whether it be, you know, what to watch, read and listen, which is what Zara is talking about.

23:22It's a central place to anchor all of that and it be the source of truth really for your reader or your listener. Exactly. And what I'm looking for the most, it's there and I can always go back to it. I might be making an assumption here as well on Zara's behalf. So apologies if this is not how she feels, but this is just an observation as well. Seeing people like Zara Wong who do have an authority and a background in magazines and experience in working in big business, seeing them prioritize being on a platform like Substack and really nurturing her newsletter screenshot, this is also a way for her to build her personal brand.

23:55and I know I keep referencing Kate a lot in this episode but I do think it's really important because Kate is a writer and this is her background and one of the conversations that we had was there aren't a lot of writers that exist nowadays or freelance writers who don't have a personal brand yes and one thing I would say having consumed a lot of Zara's content for a very long time now I think it's almost been two years since I subscribed to screenshot this is her personal brand has absolutely benefited from having this central place that she can house all of these recommendations but also show people that she is an authority and bringing back to your point earlier Priya around saying the things in your head that maybe you can't say elsewhere or you know having an audience that can come there and be like oh I have a shared opinion with this person or I feel like I can relate to this person because they're open and honest and vulnerable and straight talking I feel like that's the other thing with sub stackers like they feel like to me they say it straight more than anyone else, but it's informed, it's smart, and I love it.