Four copycat launches, one big headache

0:28Shameless media. tuning on live on a Wednesday. It's not live, but you know what I mean. And if you can't tell by our voices, you are joined by Madison Sullivan Thorpe and Annika Joshi-Smith. Hello. Hi, darling girl. How are you? How are you? Missed your face. I know it's been a minute. Do you want to share what you text me this morning? Oh my goodness, you guys, you guys, you guys, you guys. I had the proudest mommy moment. Mommy. Sweet. Baby gorgeous. Poppy. If you don't know who that is weird living under a rock she said her first word she's six months old she's a baby prodigy and she said mama and now she says mama on repeat at 3 a.m 4 a.m 5 a.m it's just our morning wake up call it is so cute but also very telling whose credit card she's going to want to take in due course yeah honestly she already has like a higher membership status on Farfetch than So, you know, we're on track.

1:21Get it, Queen. Now, Annika, we have been sidebar chatting about this in our text messages for quite a few days now. And we were like, we've got to bring it to the pod. David Jones. David Jones. I think, okay, retail as a whole right now has been struggling. And I think it's fair to say it's been causing quite a bit of concern, especially in the Australian fashion landscape and the Australian retail landscape. But last week, the AFR reported that Hilco, which is David Jones's main lender, have hired an insolvency firm to prepare for a potential collapse. Now, this has hit hard, mainly because David Jones had been under a bit of backlash recently due to prolonged payments with suppliers.

2:08And there's been a lot of discourse happening online across socials, really kind of talking to this downfall. Yeah, because I signed up for an AFR subscription at the start of the year. And I feel like every sort of week, every second week, I'm getting these pop-ups about David Jones. And one of them was that they had asked their brands if they could delay payment terms, correct? Correct. Yeah. Correct. Okay. And so I think what is really important to note is, yes, this is happening in the retail climate right now. But no name sources have come out and put their names to these claims. So these are very much allegations right now.

2:43and the CEO of David Jones, Erica Birch, told she's actually come back and said these claims are untrue. So I think that's also now broadening the conversation around what does this actually mean for retail as a whole? Because I think the scary reality is we are living and breathing a cost of living crisis right now. We are seeing it firsthand and it does make me question what does this mean for our wider retail stores, especially if a 188-year-old department store, a heritage institution could potentially fall or collapse. I guess to sort of move away from fashion and just speak about multi-retailer in a whole, it does work.

3:20Like there are businesses that are thriving in this environment. And I would look to Mecca as a success story in this because you look at that Bourke Street flagship and their George Street flagship, they are like department stores in and of themselves. Each floor is a different category. They are offering, you know, a curated offering. It's not every product from every brand, although it does seem to be getting bigger and bigger. But I think, you know, in contrast to other retailers, we are seeing some multi-branded work on a larger scale. Definitely. I'm intrigued to see what happens with DJs and how this plays out.

3:51As you said, obviously very allegation based at the moment. We will watch this one very closely. My AFR subscription will be working very hard. But into a slightly more fun news story, there were some sexy little gold boots working their away on the stage at the MCG this weekend. We're going to get into chatting all things Kylie Minogue concert and gigs at large, but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

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5:30Now for our stylish listeners, You may know it as the Kylie Minogue concert. Your partners, brothers or fathers may know it as the AFL Grand Final. But what a concert our pop princess, or as I like to call her, pop star Polly Pocket, had on the weekend. Honestly, unreal. Like, I just need a full disclaimer right here, right now. Like, don't come for me, all of Australia, when I say this. I have lived here for, I think, 14 years. and that was the first AFL match I've ever seen in my life. Oh, I have no hate on that. Okay, thank God. Because people always like to me, who do you go for? And I sit there and I'm like, go the Tykes.

6:09Like, I don't know. Go the Tykes? I live in Richmond. Like, shit, I don't know. But actually, Chris Fagan, that's my guy. I know him personally and he is a stand-up man and I cried. I cried when he won three peep, baby. Honestly, you're talking the talk. Okay, there we go. And more importantly, we had our girl Kylie walking the walk. Did she ever? Honestly, I was so excited. I was at a friend's house. I was actually with Ray watching the granny. Her and I were like arm in arm bopping along. We saw Kylie come out and like every female at our friend's barbecue like squealed the highest pitch sound.

6:43She wore multiple outfits. First of all, I want to start by saying there are a few pop stars that I would allow the honour of coming up on stage in their own merch. Kylie Minogue deserves every piece of her own merch. I'm like, get it, Queen. I want to see your face on you. No, legit. I'm like, how do we get our hands on that, though? I want to wear that. I feel like it's such a vibe right now to actually, you know, go to a gig or a festival or just out and about with your girlfriends with a cute top and jeans. And I want that Kylie T. I actually, you've just inspired me that maybe I will buy a vintage Kylie, like Lookout Depop I'm Coming, Vinted as well.

7:19Yes. I mean, she's a pop princess in the UK. But do you know what I loved about this? I mean, the first thing my eyes were drawn to were the fact that she had the gold boots, which I really saw as a nod to her little gold hot pants in her famous spinning around video. But I was absolutely thrilled to find out that said boots, along with all of her footwear, actually, were Melbourne brand Baird. Yes. Honestly, you guys, I love this for Baird. Like, I love, love, love this. I think the coolest thing is they are a Melbourne-based brand and Kylie is our Melbourne Pop Princess. Like what an iconic duo and what like a meaningful moment for the brand as a whole.

7:55But I also really love how Beard are really establishing themselves quite firmly in the fashion space. Because I don't know if you guys know this. I know this because I'm a bunion girly. But Beard, the owner of Beard, she is actually a trained podiatrist. So she found a gap in the market. They are orthopedic inspired footwear. These shoes are so comfy. They are highly performance appropriate. and like look at our girl shine on that runway aka MCG stage. Do you know what I love as well? Shout out to my mum who is a size 11. I know where did five foot three size eight. Did you just see my brain go ding ding ding ding?

8:33I was just trying to do the math up here. Yeah it my grandma was under five foot and I think that answers everything it needs to but they go up to a size 11 as well. So for my Bigfoot girlies um okay my mother mum is like bed's number one fan And like, guess what you're getting for Christmas? Hope you're not listening to this week's episode, Lisa. A Baird footwear voucher. But what I will say about Baird that I loved about this story is, as you mentioned, Anna Baird, obviously the founder, I think the brand's 18 or 19 years old now. She actually reached out to Frank Strahan, who is Kylie Minogue's stylist.

9:05Oh. Heckled him personally. Oh. Look, whether she heckled or not, I'm just going to say heckled because it makes her sound like she really hustled and got in there. To be like, I want to do the footwear. We will make sure these are weatherproof, stageproof, you name it. She also personally travelled to China to collect the boots and bring them back so that she knew they would be here. And I am like, that is founder hustle. That is doing whatever it takes, going above and beyond. I just was obsessed with that as a story. She's our very own Laura Roach doing the Scupper Rally dress from literal runaway to Zendaya.

9:37Here we go. I'm sure Anna Baird would absolutely love that comparison. You're welcome, Dolly. And there was a lot of, I saw a lot of conversation online about people sort of being like, oh, it was disappointing that she wore Dolce & Gabbana to a Melbourne event and an Australian event and it was a moment she could have put an Australian designer on the map. To that I would say she did. She put bed and also I just feel like had she worn an Australian designer as well there would have been a chorus of a small group saying she should have worn international. This is a moment to put us on the global stage as a sporting event.

10:09So I think she's an international pop star. She wore an international brand she's had a 30-year relationship with. I was okay with her wearing Dolce & Gabbana. I agree. And I think as well, she's really brought her like, we've got to remember who she is. Like, yes, she's from Melbourne. Yes, she's an Australian. But she's also been on a global stage for so many years. And I think she is an international superstar. She has brought that back home, back to Australia. And I think that's really exciting because Dolce & Gabbana have designed numerous outfits for her over, I think, what, three decades?

10:43They have designed so many iconic fits for all of her tours. So there actually is a lot of synergy here. And if you drill into the outfits and look at them a little bit more closely, they've had a really good interpretation of like the football. Like that little black mini had the woven details down the side. And I was like, I'm into this. I see what you did here, D &G. There were so many nods. There were also like Melbourne on the back of like tees that she was wearing. Dom Dollar also made an appearance. And I don't know if you saw it. When I was originally watching it, I was like, oh, no, the cameraman, you know, the cameraman's like accidentally panned him in.

11:16And then Daddy Dom turned around and I was like, keep him on, keep him on. But he had like 26 on the back, obviously the year of the grand final. Yeah. I just thought great touches. I know. I honestly like I vibed with this so much. And I think it just really is cool when you see like a brand like Baird, who has been put on the stage on such an iconic human. Like this is such an important marketing moment. I actually saw them as well on the runaway at New Zealand Fashion Week. So I'm seeing the brand pop up. I'm seeing them have these really meaningful moments. And I'm just excited to see how this helps to elevate the brand as well.

11:51Me too. And look, I'm so excited just for music and Melbourne in general. I am probably Melbourne's biggest advocate. And my friends and I always joke that we're just like a Visit Victoria ad-waiting happen. And Melbourne's separate. We have got these artists going across the country. We are talking Harry Styles, Olivia Dean, Zara Larson. And our very own JoJo got tickets to Kelvin Harris. And look, I'm not usually one to be green-eyed Envy Monster, but I am jealous. Oh my God, she hasn't shut up about it. But she's also very stressed about what to wear. But I did go to Daddy Dom on Friday. And it got me thinking about method dressing for concerts.

12:27And I do feel like people dress differently depending on the concert they go to. Okay. I strongly believe that there is an unspoken concert and festival etiquette. I feel, look, we all know I am a comfort racer at the best of times. But when you go to these events, you are going to look the part. You're going to like evolve and adapt. Obviously have such a strong self-expression. But you are dressing the part. Like if I'm going to a hip hop concert, I'm channeling Alia. I'm not channeling Lady Gaga. No. and you're not doing a Carolyn Bessette look to go to a hip-hop concert. You're not. And, like, literally, the last concert I went to was Lil Wayne.

13:10Those of you who don't know, Arnie Cruz is, like, a bad bitch with her music taste. No, guys, honestly, fun fact, my biggest dream in life was to be a video vixen. Like, I literally did hip-hop dancing. I'm looking at the camera. I don't know why. Say it straight down the barrel. There's still time. I literally was my goal, video vixen. I was that girl. I did hip hop dancing. I was a Sky City cheerleader, if anyone knows, you know. And it just really, really, I thought, catapulted my career to be an absolute stage siren. Like, you name it, I thought that was going to be me. Yeah. I have danced on stage with Tiger and I've been kicked off.

13:46Do you know, I reckon, kick that last part out. I think just leave it at, I've danced on stage with Tiger. Enough said. What happens after that? Not your business. No one needs to know. But when I went to Little Wayne, I still tried to keep my personal style. So I wore like a baby tee, really oversized baggy trousers. But then I also wore, kind of like what you're wearing today, a fun little stiletto pump wedge situation with the toes out. But here comes the ultimate privileged princess right now. I was also at Madison Square Garden in a private box. So it was very much a different situation than being like getting down and dirty in the mosh pit.

14:22Well, I got down and dirty in the mosh pit at Daddy Dom. and I had these shoes on, which are a little wedge, open-toe heel. Okay, me and producer Zoe are literally losing her mind right now. That is illegal. Well, if mum had have pulled through in the jean pool, I might not have had to have worn a heel. But you try being 5 '3 in a sneaker and, like, I would have honestly, there's no screens in there. This isn't like, you know, being at a footy game. You can't look up to your eyes. Okay, no, I've seen your TikTok and I know you. I know you on a night out and I know you'd be happily getting up on someone's shoulders.

14:54Tell me that you were not on someone's shoulders. No, I didn't. Ideally, I would have been on a nice six-foot-three man's shoulders, but I wasn't. Honestly, I'm the biggest queen of method dressing when it comes to concerts. I lose all my own personal style and I lean right in. Harry Styles, I wore a backless, glittered, Missoni-striped jumpsuit. Good, good, good, good. And a massive wedge. I was like, I could have been a video vixen for him. You could have. You're really trying to take my place here. So if I went to Calvin Harris, it's probably a good thing I don't have tickets right now because I'd probably be in a Nike Air Max and like a banana baked under eye really paying homage to 2016.

15:31No, this is what I'm here for. I think, see, I think you just confirmed my theory that there is an unspoken rule when it comes to concert etiquette because you are getting amongst and you are literally vibing with like the whole vibe of what we're about to see on stage. That's what it's about. So back to the crux of the problem. What are we wearing on the dogs when we are going to a concert? Well, I mean, obviously for me, given my height disadvantage, if I'm in a mosh pit, I'm wearing a heel. If I'm in the stands, I'm probably also in a heel. Look, I have worn a sneaker. If it was an all-day festival, I'd wear a sneaker.

16:05What did you wear to Coachella? Sneaker. Yeah, that's right. You wore your cute little golden ghost. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, for me, as a bunion girly and as like, again, I like to think I am a video vixen. After like two or three drinks, you better see me on the day floor. Watch out. I will dance, battle anybody. I am Honey Daniels. Yeah. So I'm always, always wearing my Essex. I don't care if I'm in the mosh. I've got those on. As a bunion girly, those guys give me longevity for a night out. Most people are wearing a sneaker at a concert. As long as you can boogie along, I think wear whatever you want.

16:36Totally. I also think as well, though, like going back to the wrong shoe theory, which we all love. Like if you're wearing something super cute and femme up top, chuck the wrong shoe on. Like just lean all in. I think it can really complete the vibe and the look. Okay, next we are chatting the famous or should I say infamous eyepatch drama that is playing out on socials this last week. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

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18:00Fenty announced their first of a kind product on September 17th. Glow Recipe and Huda Beauty at the same time were sending out PR boxes and that revealed that they were also launching the same eye masks with the exact same dispensing technology. And then we get to September 22. So we are, what, five days after Fenty have announced their first of a kind. and Fenty posts a meme of the situation. Glow Recipe and Huda all join in and follow suit. I have to admit, this wasn't on my radar until I think I saw Huda had the sitting down for our Netflix docu and they had these sort of unmarked matching packagings with like little legs and a high heel.

18:42They looked like me at Dom Dollar and they were in the colours of the adjacent brand. So like in Glow Recipe's signature shade and Fenty's signature shade. And I was like, what's going on here? Then I landed on the algorithm of what was going on. And having worked in beauty, I was like, but tell us how we got here with the manufacturer. Okay. So back in July, Korean brand Wonder Bath had actually released their own dispensable eye patches of the same design. So this design and this technology had been out there already. And at the end of last week, a Huda Katan from Huda Beauty speculated they'd all been screwed over by the same packaging supplier.

19:18Now Mads I'm actually really intrigued by this because obviously of your experience in beauty how does this happen? Look it happens more often than it should but I do think that the manufacturer has probably missed a trick here and has I mean in the rather unglamorous phrase screwed them over. Yeah. But basically what will happen is packaging suppliers are very often separate to your fill manufacturer. So I know this might feel like a little bit of a, you know, class in session, but bear with me. Basically what will happen is brands will either go to a manufacturer and be presented anywhere from five to like 50 pieces of new packaging technology.

19:57So it could be something like this, could be something like an, you know, an eye cream that has a magnetic applicator that sticks to the top. It could be something like those twist cleansing balms that we're seeing now. Those sorts of things are packaging innovation. And packaging is really expensive to make. Like to tool a simple new dropper style on a serum can be like 50 to 100 ,000 USD. And that's before you've even made your packaging. It's just to make the mold that it sits in so that you can continually keep producing it. The other way that brands can discover packaging technology is through large scale conferences that are dedicated to new innovation.

20:35So the largest globally is called Cosmoprof. There's two each year. There's one in Asia that's held in Hong Kong and there's another that's held in Bologna in Italy. And you can go there. It's sort of like going to the Royal Melbourne show and like you can pick all the party bags. You can meet all the different rides. You can do whatever you want. You will go and be presented these things. Now, what will usually happen is with these packaging technologies, you would say as a brand I want it exclusively or how long can we have this for or are any other brands using it it's on the packaging manufacturer as best practice to go no we're not offering it exclusive or yes we can offer it to you exclusive for the first six months or we can offer it exclusive to you for 12 months if you order a hundred thousand units you order five hundred thousand units I would be really really really surprised and this is just my opinion this is not fact.

21:27I would be very surprised if brands of the scale of Fenty, Huda and Glow Recipe were not asking these questions or did not know that this was going to be in market. And I think that they have absolutely been screwed over because they've probably been promised something that hasn't eventuated. Well, it definitely hasn't eventuated because we've got three of the biggest beauty brands right now globally producing the product. Yeah. Okay. So that's really interesting because because it ties into what Glow Recipe founders Sarah Lee and Christine Chang told Al. They said, we're actually not sure who the packaging vendors for the other companies are, but for us, the packaging is just one part of this equation.

22:04We worked tirelessly to make sure that the formula would deliver the results and actors we use were infused into the hydrogel itself. So I think our darling Jojo would be able to elaborate on this so much further than I could. But I think when it comes to these situations, and this is just me personally, Yes, packaging does matter for a purchase. But for me, it's always going to be the product. It's always going to be what's inside that packaging. I love that you've brought that up because to challenge it, I would say you're an informed consumer. Am I? Well, I mean, you get to call Joanna Fleming on the daily whenever you need anything.

22:38So I would say, yes, you are now an informed skincare consumer. I am absolutely the most privileged girl in the world. I'm informed. But it is really hard to explain when something looks the same, when it might smell the same or when the colour is the same. that it is a different product. I think it's so hard when a consumer might see the same packaging or the same colour or the formula has the similar appearance to think that everything inside it is the same. And that's not to say that anyone who hasn't worked in the industry or doesn't have a Joe Fleming on speed dial wouldn't know that, but I'm guilty of it myself.

23:09It's, you know, the same way if you went and saw a Bottega dupe of a bag on the Iconic. What is the fabrication? What is the stitching? How is it made? Where is it made? All of those things are the same for beauty. I think the challenge that there is, is when you have three brands looking at the exact same packaging, but the price points are all very different, which they were, they, you know, priced in line with their brands. It's hard to explain what ingredients have gone in there because all the customer is saying is it works the same, it looks the same. They've both got like a glitter speck through them, twists up in the same format.

23:42It's a harder story to tell and it requires a lot of education, which the way that we consume media and new launches at the moment, there's not a lot of time for class in session. So I think it's a real challenge for brands when they're coming to market, trying to innovate through both formula and relying on packaging. I would say in this case, quite heavily, there's only so much you can put in an eye patch. This would have been really disappointing. And no matter how many quotes you can give to Elle, a real challenge for a brand like Glow Recipe. Who do we think wins in this scenario? Like, does anyone win?

24:15Look, it's an interesting one. The packaging supplier definitely doesn't win because I think they're on the blacklist for those three. What I would say is the fact that Huda, Fenty and Glow Recipe kind of all lent into the joke together. I do think I hadn't thought of Huda or transparently Glow Recipe for some time. I'm now very much thinking about them as brands. I'm looking at their social team in a favorable light thinking what a great way to lean into a really shitty situation. I've worked for multiple beauty brands in product development. And if this happened to me, I would be crushed. It would be really hard to kind of face the next few days of like, this feels really embarrassing.